Metropolis: Revisited [Game Over]

[camn]

Hi guys. Hi GoofBall!

I will read now.
A couple of caveats:
1- I have this weekend off.. but recently I have been spending EVERY WAKING MOMENT working and studying.... that should change Wednesday.. which is why I replaced in But I dont know what my schedule will be like next month...
2 - I dont work at a computer. I read during the day via IPOD usually.. Thus my post-patterns are different than some. But you can count on me to follow the game
3 - It has been a long time since I was in a Large. They scare me.

I go read now.

[camn]

Ha! I have a great pair of headphones called 'SkullCrushers".. not that I am claiming scum.. but .. youknow.

anyway..Usually I keep replace-in notes on paper.. but I figured why not just type? Then I thought.. why not post it?
So here is a look into how my brain works... it is partly for me to look back on. Sorry if there is fluff.
In fact. I am going to spoiler my raw notes, soas to pretty up this post:

Spoiler: my notes

1- Striking 40%... I wonder if that prevents killing?
I see some people are asking that... hmm. No, you only can strike once! It would be impossible to incapacitate EVERYONE every day... but 2 people? sure. We could also cripple one person and kill another. That would be fun

2-Good.. some clarity re: the mechanic. I can't believe i just joined a Large. this is madness.

3-Jesus Thad.. that was a nice subtle dgb-joke. not a slip of any kind. CKD's response is interesting though. SCUMPING#1 goes to CKD(post64).... Hmm. Interesting, TOOGoo.

4-SCUMPING#2(82) goes to Lady Lambadelta! All your points were already pointed, my dear. Agree with Magua Re: Hzerez.
Shiz. ABR's post just reminded me.. I hate multiple-faction games. Meh.
I like Nacho here. But MoI.. SCUMPING#3(post91) Do not like. Toog is old news!
What is lambadelta talking about in 95? (Note to self: SK freud-claim?)

5-not sure how I feel about this psuedo-voting biz. Will think it over.
Now That is on this too? 111-not impressed.
townpoints to bunnylover in 116. I like the tone. Also.. looks like Toog is town. Kise as well? Or is he a daySK?

6-Prediction: this game needs serious carnage before I will get my head around it. Thadmiral is getting summier here. Where the fudge is DGB? WHO the fudge is Kage Lord?

7- Oh, there you are I like where ABR is at here. Alliances, fast days, love it.
We GET IT Moi! You are better than this. YOu too Friend. you should be ignoreing like ABR told you too.

8-exe: WHA? I cant imagine why you would want to preempt an SK kill this early in the game. They are practically vigs early on!
Quicklynching is NOT always anti-town! Oh, thanks, Plum.
>>strategy-thought. Blocks narrow the killing pool eonce private blockers and docs are out of the pic..eg: known RBs without massclaim? Follow up later<<

9-Dont like babyspice. Too much apathy. hydra account? cant read setup? Hmph. Wil Hrez get speed-beaten?

10- I like EXE here. I think emotion is telling. I like Friend, too. Logic is compelling.
stop with the code. its obstructionist

11- shiz. Brevity is townie in this game, guys.
Thad might have a point in 255. readress later.
Still not likeing LambaDelta. the nickname thing.. hmm.
Agree with magua re: DGB. I dont like it when she is underspoken.

12-druidwho? This game is too big! And there is nothing about that post I like either. Note to self: every town read you have is not a town read. You think people are HUNTING.. which is fine.. but scum do it too./// hoever lucidPlum=townPlum
294 is the Moi i know! as Scum!

13-UNTRODTRIPOD? I am reading this in one sitting and I already forgot you were here. policylynch?
310-critical diff, townpoint:nacho.
323 AGREE finally lamda says something I like. Babyspice is scum, btw.

14- SC advocates a D1 ABR lynch? I think not. Ever.

TD;LR:
I am struggling.. but Ill get there. This game is too big to get my head around. luckily, we are going to see some serious carnage in the next few days.
My thoughts?

1)DAY SK KILL NOW! Try and hit Scum! The SKs will be scumhunting for the first day or two. We should direct them just like Vigs. I propose a UNTROD TRIPOD daykill on lurker grounds.

2) I am ok with lynching the following at this point, based on gut/policy almost entirely.. but I think we can do better. We have 3 weeks, right?:
UNTROD, BABY SPICE, OBVDRUID, KAGELORD, HZRES, LAMBADELTA, KARMADOG

[camn]

We have bigger fish to fry, Coug.

[camn]

Hey Sk! Kill someone! Someone scummy!!

[camn]

I'll be your ally, Albert.
Nobody ever uses the word 'unrequited' with me

[camn]

I've already touched on why DSK killing today is a bad idea. .

Buuuuut.. Im not convinced.
I say it us a very good idea.

Discuss?

[camn]

I'm gathering data from this DGB-wagon.
Besides, I want a daykill. If we rush, then we might miss it, no?

What I don't understand is why this daySK hasn't killed yet. What's the hangup?

[camn]

Well.. let the carnage ensue, then.
I hope we can be confirmed mason-partners soon? That would be awesome.

/strike: DrippingGoofBall

@nacho: anti-daykill reasons now please?

[camn]

Too bad we dont direct whether the SK kills or not.
Why would they want the math to work out?

We need to USE the SK now while our goals are in alignment. And killing scum is in our best interest. That changes as the day progresses.
Of course, given the Locard principle, it may be in the KILLERS best interest not to kill early on...
Maybe that is what you are getting at?

[camn]

PLUS! regarding SK-hunting...... they are ALL SKs in this setup.
There are no real scumteams.
Everyone who is mafia wants at least one of their group dead.

[camn]

Shit. Everyone who is TOWN wants at least one of their group dead, too!

aaaggh

[camn]

I slightly agree with tooogloo.
Looking back, a lot if night action analysis can get done if we have a lot of people openly rileblocked on certain nights.
PLUS I don't think we are going to LACK for carnage these first few nights.... So why not?

Rampage? What say you? I say we block two people tonight.
At this point I am relatively convinced DGB is town... So we would be wasting a roleblock by killing her. Let's block MOI or someone instead, and let the scum kill townies for once!

I really think it will get us more info in the end.

[camn]

Seriously, it will garner us more info in the end. We are going to be looking back, trying to see who could have done what at night... And we are going to NEED to do that!
Especially since we won't be able to rely on normal behavior patterns! One time voting itself will throw off peoples behavior, but add to that multiple scumgroups, and traitors WITHIN groups... It all adds up to a nightmare for voting analysis...... We need to really utilize the public-block mechanic.
It's like having 2 directable, in nightkillable roleblockers at our disposal.

Why not use them?

Especially today, day 1, which is almost always a mislynch?

[camn]

We would by necessity send you there, in order to garner the votes to send Baby Spice with you...,

[camn]

I'm not hard to read! I am as town as the day is long!
I need to review the end of yesterday before I give you my to-do list.

I am pleased that the daySK followed my directions yesterday. A fortunate strike. Any comment on that nachomamma?

[camn]

I will try, Albert.

Hzres: I like Moi. But I dont remember actually saying I was against his lynch. I DO usually avoid lynching people I like on day ONE... But DGB is my favorite player on site, so my heart is filled with anger and shame. go figure.
In any event, Your question is meaningless, and it is scum-fluff.

vote Hzeres

Also, magua... I can explain why 2 blocks was/is good if you want... As soon as I get to a real keyboard.

[camn]

Hey mag: you just summed up my first 30 hours playing this game.
Are you saying it is odd that my position evolved during that time? That I had different thoughts on the setup, and on what ideal play might be? It not that there was new info, but that I was processing the whole picture.
And if you read my posts, that is pretty obvious, I think.
Also, you are not really assessing the setup accurately, even still.. So let me know if you want mention explain. Not just why blocking is good, but why your normal method of hinting will fail in this game.


@Hrez: you understand that those are 2 very different things, right? Why u said about Moi and what you initially CLAIMED that I said?

[camn]

Also consider crosskill. Both scumteams are looking for power, scum and An sk. Maybe they both saw the same thing in Agar.

Which is why speculating on there only being 1 was dumb.

DaySK!
Kill earlier today please? I'll go easier on you later if you help us now.

[camn]

camn, who? You didn't pick a target like last time

I haven't decided yet!
Who would you Vig, if you were a-vigging?

[camn]

I like your personality, Magna. From previous games. That was not a comment on your play in this game.

There are a number of people I am disinclined to lynch on a tingle Day 1. you are on the list.
So is DGB.. but she forced my hand...

[camn]

I could go with either. Kagelord would be my fist choice.

[camn]

This game is frustrating me.

I really think the only way we are going to actually strategically find scum is to strategically use blocks and PRs. My normal methods do not apply.

OTHERWISE.. we can wait for the scum to all kill each other off. Which will happen... then we just pick up the pieces.
Of course, If the 2 scum-Inner Circle members die, then we are looking at a more normal game... but until then the critical problem is this: the scum don't want to protect their team!
Everyone just wants to stay alive. Scum, town Power.. everyone except the vanillas. So wtf.

It is frustrating me. I am at a loss as to how to proceed, and I think all of you with your accusations are sniffing up the wrong tree.

[camn]

WHo was the third person you edited out?

[camn]

Speaking of Inner Circle, I wonder if the entire team is eliminated if even one member dies since they can't win if even one player dies.

This is a really good question.

MOD: can you advise on wincondition?

[camn]

@ Kast.. you missed the rest of the post

But what >I< missed was the consideration that the INNER CIRCLE members may have told each other who the scumteams are.
In fact. they MUST have, right? Max info to max their wincons.

Which means one member of the town, and one member each of the scum actually KNOWS who the scum are, and has motivation to push scum lynches... and can get away with it without upsetting their own scumteam.

I consider myself pretty sharp.. but this is making my head hurt.

[camn]

On the OTHER one!
They can totally pursue lynches on people that they know are scum for sure... without having to deal with night-drama.
Its like bussing, only way better.

So what is even scummy in this game?
Protecting your teammates? no gonna happen.
distancing? maybe
Pushing mislynches? minimized.

W T F?

[camn]

It is, however, going to totally blow all of our normal reactions out of the water.
Which is what I have been trying to say.
The idea that we can hunt like we always do is nonsense here. EVERYTHING is skewed.
We need a real strategy.

I propose an open-target-claiming system, combined with dual town roleblocks for retrospective analysis.

Heres how it would work:
EVERYONE claims who they would have targeted if they had targeting ability. either BEFORE night falls or after day breaks, depending on everyone's level of comfort with things.
Additionally, we spend today and MAYBE tomorrow blocking instead of killing.. to give us a few open data points.

How does this help us?

A) Open blocking lets us know who is NOT the leaders of each scumteam.. that is, if 2 kills go though, we missed twice.
ONly 2 players can nightkill right now, right? So if we start to build a database of who those players ARE NOT, then that=win.
Of course, there are many reasons a kill could miss, so thats why we need point b.

B) retrospective target claiming gives us a look at WHO was protected and/or blocked and/or mixed or whatever after the person dies. THIS IS A CRITICAL BIT OF INFO if we are going to reconstruct what happened at night.
I suggest we do this REGARDLESS of if we start using strikes to roleblock.

Combine these two plans.. and in a couple days, after the scum have killed off 4 or 5 or 6 of us/eachother, we will have a lot of data about who was where doing what overnight.
The downside? there is potential for PR's to give up their role if they are clumsy, or if they are successful. Which, IMO, would then give away the scum if they retaliated. This can be ameliorated with buddy-targeting or something like that... if we can get everyone on board.

Please discuss.

[camn]

See point A above, geniuses.
It is like a paternity test. Lack of kills tells us nothing. PRESENCE of kills tells us things.

And if the scum want to belay their kills just to try and trick me in endgame.. that is one less dead... somebody.

[camn]

So you want to spend the days only looking for the Gang Leaders of Metropolis? I mean, we could Hospitalize all the other Mafia and not know it with your plan.

YOu have a better idea?

Cuz the way I see it, eventually we are going to be in LYLO, and we aren't going to have shit. We are going to get beat by one of the scum factions... probably the first one to see its IC member get killed.

Thats what will happen if we dont get a plan together now.
Mine is just what I came up with.. I am into any suggestions?

[camn]

Don't buy into it, there are people with vested interests who are striking Kagelord to save inner circle scum KK. Striking ThAd, really? Keep that one for tomorrow I promise I will strike ThAd with you. We have to finish KK off today.

YOu are against my plan then?
Your plan is to.... randomly kill as many people as possible, and let god sort them out?

[camn]

(camn admits she hasnt played those kinds of games)

ok, then.
It doesn't work without everyones agreement.

/strike Kublai Khan

[camn]

OK:

Dear everyone: You are about to see a dramatic change in my play. Call it hormones. Call it Spyrex's encouragement.. but I sense the old me it rising her evil, bloodthirsty head. Which means I want death, and carnage, and I want it now.
Also, this mood coincides with me shifting strategies as per ABR's suggestion. I no longer desire a strategic, thought out plan. I desire to kill all non-townies, by whatever means necessary.

A few responses:

@

MOI

: I love high Risk:Reward. It is where I am my best.

@

EXE

: THe fact that you dont understand it doesn't make me scummy. It just means you should read it again. But it doesn't matter anyway, because I don't negotiate with terrorists.

@

Kast

: you FACE is anti-town.

@

Daykiller

: How about

Friend

or

Lady

LambaDelta

? I would like to see them dead. Thad has a decent point about Friend. ..and his ISO is lurkeriffic. LL keeps dropping in, but not saying much. Lurkers hurt you just as much as they hurt us, so get to killing, huh?
Pedit: AGM sums up the problem with LL.

[camn]

I already struck. BEsides.. she is clearly a vig target.

[camn]

Hmm.
Well, DayKiller.. I think Lady L might actually be town. WHich makes her a not-so-great shot for you as far as eliminating threats goes, hmm?

How about FRIEND? He is lurking scum, I think. Trying to lay low. Stay out of the way. Avoid attention.

Kill him.
Please.
Kill him now.
For me.
For the Children.

[camn]

Blood, kublai. That is my only desire.
To bathe in the blood of my enemies.

That last post of yours does give me a nice townie vibe, though... I will admit.
Let's see a Thad lynch!

[camn]

UNVOTE
VOTE THADMIRAL

[camn]

its all clear.

[camn]

@ camn: and why no strike on me if you gave strangercoug the "all clear"?

^^someone inst paying attention!

[camn]

Look!
Everyone is saying I have to approach this game like I do any other game, so I said fuck it!
I voted you for the same reasons I ever put a vote down on anyone.... To see what happens.

Turns out you might be town!
Finding that out made it a vote well placed.

[camn]

Why would a sk do that?
That would just be wasting his kill.... Not taking away ours. Our target still would die.

??

[camn]

I have decided that posting "responding to prod" is scummy.

[camn]

meh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE FRIEND

[camn]

Your vote means absolutely nothing after you've struck.
.

It means absolutely nothing BEFORE I stuck, too. But thank you for chiming in on the issue.

@agm: that is the problem with this game.
Not striking yields no threat of a lynch, thus reveals no true reactions.. Thus gives the town no information.
Striking, however, though revealing, tends to screw us right in the ass, because we are 'forced' to stick with a lynch we might not even support. Additionally, people can use MATHEMATICAL justifications for their strikes, and even for THE HAMMER!!!!
this is no way to play this game.
Right now, the true townie thing to do would be to force a no- lynch if you actually think Thad is town. If you were a Doc, would you protect him? Of so, then no-lynch should be you goal right now. But we all know that you would get crucified for that given the current atmosphere.

Which is why I propose , AGAIN, that we send a couple people to the hospital.
This should be an acceptable choice.
Each of us should be allowed to, no OBLIDGED to either vote for scum or avoid voting for town based on our assessment of scumminess, NOT BASED ON MATH, and not based on this idea that we MUST LYNCH, even if it is a mislynch.

That is all.

[camn]

We must decide, as a group, that we are only going to strike one of two people today.

Good. Everyone choose. Toog or Moi.
Case to follow. Must go to happy hour.

STRIKE : MAGNAOFILLUSION

[camn]

One of the two is fine.
I wanna see which one people choose.

[camn]

Whining?
I proposed working out a strategy.
People wanted to cock-block.

So now I am back to my normal method: blood.

Is that hard to understand? I happen to be as town as they come. Your FACE is whining. I ignore nothing.

Now choose.

[camn]

Ps. Right now the mafia all know who the IC is on their own team.
So they need to get them lynched.
And the IC-scum need to get their scumpartner lynched. Because they know that they know now, so they can't use the cross-kill again.



Just so you all realize.

[camn]

/yawn..

Good morning guys! You have all gotten a little out of control while I was asleep!
Let us please get a little civilized.

a) toog- dont be like that. If you are town, forget about the haters.
b) LLD and Baby spice - take a breath ladies. Organize your thoughts, and lets hear them. Repeating 'you are scum' convinces nobody.
c) MoI- your last couple posts were beneath you. You can do a LOT better. But the tone of your play makes me a little reluctant to get involved. I don't generally try and talk logic with people I think are scum... and almost NEVER with people whose case consists of:

Scum scum scummity scum!

However, you did blow something off that I would like the TOWN to actually look at.
If you can show me a flaw in my logic, that would be great. I have flawed logic a lot It revolves around this:

Ps. Right now the mafia all know who the IC is on their own team.
So they need to get them lynched.
And the IC-scum need to get their scumpartner lynched. Because they know that they know now, so they can't use the cross-kill again.

How do you know this is certain again? Oh that’s right .. .you have inside information

So.. the way I see it is this:
2 scumteams.
Each has a LEADER, and 2 other guys... 3 people total.
The leaders are not IC, thus one of the other 2 must be..
Now that the leaders are dead.. the remaining NON-IC scum can easily deduce who the IC is, no?
And since I doubt they can kill their own teammates.. they need to persuade us all to lynch for them, right?

[camn]

...
....

/camn smashes her head against desk

[camn]

Well .. there goes that idea.

[camn]

Khan- you will find I respond poorly to profanity.

[camn]

You might, if you had a pro-town wincon.

[camn]

Re: Moi

I have played with him once, iirc, and he was good. And scum.
My whole take on him hinges on the idea that it is easier to be good as TOWN than it is as scum. Thus, if he were town, he would be at least equaling, if not exceeding his level of play as scum.
This might be a flawed assumption, but we go with what we have, no? In this game especially, I think it would be HARD to be consistent and organized as scum, given the shifting landscape of loyalty and betrayal.

Lets us look, then:
This is early on:

TL : DR

- Toog's stance and action show a CLEAR scum motivation and don't show any possible Town motivation. He's scum.

What happened to this? Did Moi go after obv-scum later? let us peruse. .

Spoiler: Here is the entire set of Moi's mentions of Toog for the rest of the day

If you saw justification in the strike why were you immediately tempted to strike him?

We have different views on the potential Town / Scum intent of Toog's play. I'd rather continue to hang scum (Hrezs, Wraith, others as they make themselves Obv)

So says the person yelling at everyone to IGNORE Toog. The irony of using Toog to support your postion on DGB makes me chuckle.

Toog is scum? Absolutely. Why you ask? This post clearly shows why. He’s presented what he feels is a logical way to hunt for scum in this environment. The formula?

1. Look at those who pushed Hrezs.
2. Cross-reference to those pushing Kagelord today.
3. Re-cross-reference with those that struck DGB.
4. Hang resulting found scum.

But does he do this? Nope.

He’s more interested in looking town than actually hunting said scum down. Oh wait, wasn’t that the increadibly scummy thing he was just accusing someone else of doing?

Kill it with Fire!

Toog

Toog (more complete lack of scum-hunting)

So.. It is clear that Moi thinks Toog is scum. Is there a strike? no.
This is a wierd game, though.. is there a VOTE?? no. Not even a vote.
Instead.. NOW that Toog actually is a viable lynch (in fact a PROBABLE lynch), we get this:

VOTE: Camn. Nothing has changed from yesterday.

Honestly I think Toog needs to hang

Remember... Toog has 2 Strikes already! The momentum is to lynch him! I know this is after I struck.. but it applies! What does Moi do next?

Right here, absolutely.

/strike – BabySpice

...

ATTENTION DAYKILLER – CAMN IS A GREAT TARGET TODAY!!!

.

Hmm.
What say you? Is this a town-player? I think not.

[camn]

/yawn.
So unimpressed by this game.

Can we get to killing?

Magua and Moi:
I see I am not winning you over... so

BRING IT ON!

You think you can get me lynched?
Lets see what you two are really made of.

I only post at night though.. so try and keep it concise.

[camn]

I would prefer MOI.. but OF {TOOG, ABR}, ABR is more likely scum, IMO.

HE has been playing pretty boldly...
I don't know his meta, but it seems to me that you only make yourself a focus like that if you have something going on. A difficult wincon or something.
Sometimes as scum in Newbie games.. I act intentionally scummy/outrageous to combat the 'why is she still alive' argument down the road. Of course, sometimes I do it as town to avoid actually getting nightkilled.......
Feels a little like that.

of course... we could just cripple them both.......

I KID! I KID!
I am not into that plan anymore

[camn]

I wasn't planning on a Baby Spice strike. Toogeloo is the answer.

If this is a hard line in the sand.. then there is only one thing to do.

Coug: is it? If someone were to drop a vote on Baby Spice right now.. what would you do?

[camn]

I knew MoI was scum!

DAYKILLER! Strike scum again?
you know you want to.
You know he wont rest until you are dead.
Plus, you disrupt the whole IC team with one blow.

[camn]

I'm into that.

[camn]

vote: strangercoug

[camn]

Daykiller: Same plan as yesterday.. you kill EXE, we kill LLD, okay?

Then it will be you vs. the last scum vs. us.
Mano y mano y mano.
Sound good to everyone?

/strike: Lady lamba Delta

PS
Ha ha i am getting good:

Spoiler: camn in her replace-in post wrote:

SCUMPING#1 goes to CKD .. ...
SCUMPING#2 goes to Lady Lambadelta! ...
.... and MoI.. SCUMPING#3!!

[camn]

Enough complaining. YOu knew the setup when you singed up, no?
Tell us your team's night history.

Also:
Magua: what happened to you thirsting for my blood? You feel like making up now?

[camn]

Camn, what part of "no" are you not understanding? :3

I will go easier on you later if you spill now.
It will help us catch the others.
You don't want a DIFFERENT scumteam to prove that they are better than you, do you?

[camn]

Is camn the serial killer?

Maybe. Fits the profile.

I wish.
But I am good enough that there would be no way to tell it from my play. Day SK in a multi scum setup would be a dream role for me.. 2nd only to actual day VIG.

But I am sadly NOT the SK in this game. I welcome any cop investigation or roleblock or whatever might shed light on my innocence.
I also will accept death if it sheds any light on things.. after we have taken care of the scum, that is.

More likely Magua is SK.

[camn]

IC? Who knows. Who cares?
They both die.

PLus, I dont see the percentage in launching another wagon right now.
If the daykiller misses, we lynch EXE tomorrow.

[camn]

Finally!

[camn]

Yeah. It is called getting pwned.

[camn]

Gomen nasai, shinzoo-no-hime-sama!

Dooshite gomen o hanashita? Istumo waruihito ga shinakerebanaranai yo.
DE MO eigo daKE kakinasai. Kore ga CODE desune? Nihonho kin shi.

[camn]

I think it's fucking stupid that we are trying to get some stupid mafioso when the DSK should be our main concern. The DSK renders all remaining PRs useless. Mafia can be JK'd, victim can be saved by paramedic, whatever. DSK is our main concern.

Agreed.

OK.. lets rock.
I POSIT:
a- DSK is having a good game.. wouldn't replace out after killing NSK.
Which eliminates...Mute and Kast
b- Day SK would never be the first strike ON ANYONE. Going by last votecounts (god help you, RC), this eliminates: Albert,

toog

, camn,

MoI

, Exe,

LLD

c- DSK has been really watching, to make kills at a certain time. e.g. yesterday's 30-minute window. So not too lurky. This excludles... Plum only? Also KISE?
d- Hmm. I dont have anymore. Shoot. THis list is too big. PLus I think I have excluded some scum in Kise and Mute.

03. Kise

04. Mute

Xalxe, Friend

06. Kast

ObliviousDruidMuncher

12. Exe

13. Albert B. Rampage

14. Hrezs
15. Magua

19. Plum

22. StrangerCoug

GummyBear

23. Kublai Khan

24. camn

Wraith

[camn]

I like Magua's strategy of clearing Mafia. Strike until they're roleblocked; if a kill goes off, the roleblocked player is town.

strike:
Magua

Striking strangercoug would allow the daykiller to steal our block away!
We need 4 hits on Magua, then add one to Exe (making it 6)... then the last person (you, Magua) can either hammer Exe, get daykilled, or strike someone else, proving they are scum?

Ftr: I Obv support a Exe lynch

[camn]

Jesus, ABR.. I think we can do better, from a logic perspective, than 'he's scummy'.

Fact 1: its confirmed that the Inner Circle members are no-reveal.
Fact 2: AGM, Baby Spice and MagnaofIllusion all knew who the last scum were.
Fact 3: DSK still out there.
Supposition: MagofIllusion was IC? Baby Spice made a compelling case.. and had very little reason to lie. Thus he would have had more incentive to get his partners lynched than the rest? Lets see who he goes after the hardest?
Shit. He goes after Hzres, ME, Toog and Thad. So nothing good there.
Rereading him, I am glad I am dancing on his grave right now though.

I cant find much in the other two's posts either. Hmph.

[camn]

I agree with the block plan.
I agree with Magua's LAST post.

I wish we could run up both ABR and Mute.. and let the last person decide who to hammer... but the DSK could kill that last person, thus saving the lynch (though blocking x 2), which is suboptimal.

I thought Friend was scummy before.. but I dont have much of a read on Mute.
I think it is curious that ABR is playing more and more recklessly as the game progresses, instead of more conservatively.

My decision? ABR should hang.

I would gladly volunteer to be one of those last two people.. though I think they are likely DSK targets. It would be good for me to be one of them, though. I have had some SK-suspicion.. so I am a sub-optimal DSK-kill.
The other last-striker should ALSO be a SK-suspect.. so as to put the DaySK in a pretty position.

Meanwhile.. everyone who would be an OPTIMAL daykill (from the killer's perspective) should prob get their strikes out early, once we all agree to the plan... so if they get killed we can proceed with a block/lynch.

[camn]

ABR: what makes you the 'supervisor'?

[camn]

Mute's flip will likely say something about Albert B. Rampage.

True, true.

[camn]

Scum not killing = good for town, no? Unless they were going to his the DSK.
At this point, we want to slow down carnage, and start lynching intentionally.

Thank you Kast for recognizing that I am dialing down my recklessness at this stage in the game
I would like to reiterate.. I would like to be one of the last couple people to strike. I am ok with lynching Mute and blocking.. someone else. ABR is fine, since I am yet unsatisfied as to his "B stands for Boss" shit-explanation of his failclaim... but I am also OK with blocking ANYONE. I agree that confirming town is better than not.

I want to go late, because if I die it narrows the DSK suspect-pool. Which is nice, and hems the DSK into an awkward postition. So get to it people.

KAST: you seem to have a head for organizing. I nominate YOU to assign everyone's strike and strike order. Make me in the last couple people, if you like.

[camn]

So if ABR is blocked, Mute is lynched, flips town, and no kill happens... we think ABR did it is the gang banger? So then we lynch ABR, he flips town... the last gang member points and laughs at everyone. Did I get that hypothetical scenario down right?

Only if we are idiots, which we might be.
Over and over we have said that:
block + no-kill does not incriminate.
Block + KILL CLEARS them.

Some jokers have said "what if the mafia INTENTIONALLY no-kills!!?!?!"

the answer? Great. Then we lynch someone ELSE scummy.. and block someone (if we can).
If the mafia wants to give up their kill.. that is awesome.

Alternatively.. we can lynch someone and NOT block... and the mafia will maybe kill someone..and we get no additional info.
I say we block+kill when we can. It is free info.. or we are forcing the scum to no-kill. Both good for the town.

[camn]

Kast: before you get too insane.., listen.
I predict the Sk will kill someone who hasn't voted, to try and stop us from blocking AND lynching.. Because of his previous behavior.
If you are ok with painting a target on our so-called 'confirmed'... Then.. That is interesting. And sub optimal. And slightly anti town.
Maybe you are discounting the possibility. But I am willing to do whatever, as long as it makes sense.

Hmm.
I also just did some math and I think there is a hole in the plan.

[camn]

I understand all that.
I am asking why you want our 'confirmed' players to be the ones most likely to get daykilled?
Are you avoiding answering? Or just being an asshole?

Also... There is one contingency you overlooked, genius.
But it ends up ok, I guess. Close to your 'worst case scenario' and there is no way we can avoid it. But whatever. Looks like you have everything figured out.


When do I strike, again?

[camn]

Massclaim now please.
Fullclaims with targets.
Popcorn.

Coug, you go first.

[camn]

Um.. it means Kast is the Town Inner Circle member.. and NOT the daykiller. Just a loser!

[camn]

Vanilla Citizen. Just my voice and my FISTS.

SC Next!

( and yes, I support serial lynching all vanillas if the math works out. IF. )

[camn]

I am totally not the SK.
I am willing to hang, but massclaim first, and see if we can see the pattern!
I want to win. This game has been too long and silly to lose now!

[camn]

After I die, everyone who is against massclaim should be examined.
And you two morons are busy letting people off the hook with your quickstrikes.

How is it protown to be hasty right when victory is in our grasp?

[camn]

Totally pro-town reasoning right there.

Luckily, I think we still have a couple mislynches to give. I just wish we had a better core of townies. By better, I mean more level-headed and logical.
I like our chances though.

How about MAGUA next for fullclaiming? SInce stranger coug is no where to be found?

[camn]

Actually, I take it back.

If the rest of the town is hell-bent on a camn-lynch.. we should wait on massclaim until tomorrow.

[camn]

Events move quickly, Coug.
It is the events that dictate the pace, not my level of patience!

[camn]

03.

Kise

--- need a claim still. Likely DSK.

06.

Kast

--- Town Inner Circle. Not SK? Or is he SK, gambling that the town IC is dead... and fake-soft-claiming IC?
Kast: please clarify. Are you or are you not Inner Circle?

13.

Albert B. Rampage

--

Claimed "security supervisor"

. His play backs up his claimed targets... but anyone worth anything can fakeclaim that. DO I see him as SK faking a town PR? Not really. Not with that much premeditation. Scum? maybe, but they are dead.

15.

Magua

-- Let us assume for now that KageLord's clearing is real. Are we OK with that? Would SK flip guilty? I think they SHOULD.
This assumption may make or break the game, really. If they are clear, our math might really work

22.

StrangerCoug

--

claimed vanilla

. Probably should die.

23.

Kublai Khan

-- See above reasoning re: cop. PLus

claimed Paramedic

. Hurts our math, but gives a little clarity.

24.

camn

--

claimed vanilla

, probably should die.

Look:
Given KK/Mag/ABR/Kast = NOT DSK... can the 7 of us manage a camn/SC/kise serial lynch?
I think it would be difficult.

Thus.. once massclaim is done, I simply ask that you LET ME SPEAK before delivering any more strikes. I have an idea.

[camn]

^^yes yes yes Thats why massclaim.

Plus.. I have a tiebreaker up my sleeve if we get 3 vanilla claims.

[camn]

wait wait wait. we need the claims.

[camn]

Perfect!

OK, it is set then. SC and I must die.
It is a shame that due to the pigheadedness in this game we are going to have to rely on Kagelord's breadcrumbed 'results' rather than real hunting. But a follow-the-cop win is still a win!

/strike camn

[camn]

Its the pro-town play, actually.
There is so little accountability in this game, we are more likely to catch scum hesitating than hammering.
PLus, If the DSK could split the vote and somehow lock a no-lynch, they would take the mathematical advantage from us.

Personally, I wish we had another mislynch to give. Kise striking when all I asked for was the chance to speak after massclaim is not only anti-town, but anti-sportsmanship, and anti-civility, and would really deserve votes in any normal game. But I forgive him. It is the Mob Atmosphere. It makes us all into animals.

PLus, this game could go down infamy: a game when both DGB and I were on our own wagons!

[camn]

PS:
Before night falls:

STRANGER COUG:

Which one of the following reminds you most of being a vanilla townie, and why?

I have been spending EVERY WAKING MOMENT ....

Of course, given the Locard principle, it may be in the KILLERS best interest ...

Just my voice and my FISTS.

[camn]

Of what?
My incredible, pro-town-even-when-facing-death play that makes everyone look at themselves in shame?
Makes them hope, nay, PRAY that they can some day climb to the townie heights at which I reside?

[camn]

Another Follow-the-cop failure in the books.

Fun game, nontheless!
For me at least!

[camn]

I had a surprise if I could have slowed things down a little!
But sadly, I couldn't.

GG all.

[camn]

PS, ABR. . . I dont think it was bad odds for the town.
If we would have all massclaimed, taken a breath and did some scumhunting, the town had a plenty fair chance!
I think we lost on recklessness and poor fundamental play in endgame, myself included. That is all.
No odds. We were at 6 town 1 DSK, right? We were just all too rash.

A lesson for us all.. fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals.

[camn]

Realistically, if KL didn't call Magua town, we would have killed him.

Obv we should have anyway.
I think we could have gotten there with some sane discussion post-massclaim.
But the anger of the mob... It make us into primitives.

[camn]

RC:
Why not just do what Agar said (to a point), and warn people that there "may be Bastard elements in your games"?

I liked this game.
I don't mind weird stuff.

But some people don't like that stuff... And they should get to choose, no?

I don't think the setup details are the problem... Just thefact that nobody likes to be surprised, right?
Plus, if you say that, that a game may include bastard elements, then it really is a free for all, and nobody can complain after!

Arguing about whether or not your games are bastard is dumb. If all these peolple say they are, they are.
Just warn people next time!

[camn]

Ha!

ITT RC can't take the heat!

[camn]

ITT, total randoms weigh in!

[camn]

ITT RC has overcome some of his angst!

[camn]

Alright. I will make sure to label all my games from now on "may or may not be more or less bastardly the moderator" or something. lol

And that single line gives you TOTAL IMMUNITY from ALL the shit-talkers in the future!

[camn]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2933506

[camn]

*lifts ring finger* Married, remember?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2160039