Square Enix Mafia Gaiden: The Outsiders (Game Over)

[GhostWriter]

VOTE: Ender. Wagons built from RVS analysis are so fun. Especially when they come so early.

[GhostWriter]

What makes it cute, pray tell?

[GhostWriter]

That's the point.

[GhostWriter]

Vote: diddin.

Do you play on Epicmafia?

Raise your hand if you see it!

Maybe...

Back in the day I did. It's been a while.

Same here. I hear that I was smart to leave when I did.

[GhostWriter]

The "etc. etc." made it all seem rhetorical. I do not see announcing the use of an RNG to be equal to calling a RVS vote and RVS vote. You do, I do not, it's whatever. Furthermore, Ender had more votes. Thus, his wagon had more impact. I do not honestly believe we've found scum within the first 3 pages of this game.

[GhostWriter]

ender is likely town.

bill is likely scum. Looks to be trying to just find a reason to hop on the Jedo wagon for my money.

unvote
vote: bill

This only works if Ender is a scum-partner, since he isn't going for what would be an easier mislynch with fewer repercussions. I see no point in your accusations.

[GhostWriter]

For those of you who believe wagons, and to a further extent the votes themselves, can only have one purpose, I have some news that just might shake the foundations of all you know and believe to be true of the game of mafia: there are multiple reasons to wagon and to vote. Personally, I think this wagon is great. Probably wouldn't have gotten such great reactions from wagoning anyone else.

Preview Edit: Comic?

[GhostWriter]

I'm sorry, but could someone explain to me what the hell I just read? Personal feelings suddenly decide alignment on this site? What is it to ender? I don't know, but to me it signifies that scum-Jedo could use town-you as a buffer, or that scum-you could be hoping to chalk it all up to more than likely genuine affection towards scum-Jedo. And that ending...

[GhostWriter]

Casual wagon jumpers would be Fate, vezok, GW, and Prana.

Just sort of wondering, what makes me casual and you not casual?

[GhostWriter]

At least it's only page 10.

[GhostWriter]

Anyone else feel like Nero is trolling?

[GhostWriter]

Unvote

VOTE: Nero Cain

For lying? As a person with an out-of-my-hands sometimes posting restriction, maybe I sympathize with Jedo. But the way I see it, most people do not say they won't post on the weekends simply because they intend to be watching the game but not saying anything. They do it because of a history of having something to interfere with them most of the time during the weekends in their real life, and them posting on the weekends isn't a taboo so much as it is a smile of fortune for them. Why you would attack this by calling it lying is beyond me. It's like someone saying they're on vacation and V/LA, posting from the hotel lobby, and getting voted for not being at the beach.

[GhostWriter]

Unvote

VOTE: Nero Cain

For lying? As a person with an out-of-my-hands sometimes posting restriction, maybe I sympathize with Jedo. But the way I see it, most people do not say they won't post on the weekends simply because they intend to be watching the game but not saying anything. They do it because of a history of having something to interfere with them most of the time during the weekends in their real life, and them posting on the weekends isn't a taboo so much as it is a smile of fortune for them. Why you would attack this by calling it lying is beyond me. It's like someone saying they're on vacation and V/LA, posting from the hotel lobby, and getting voted for not being at the beach.

I very much believe that scum players make up excuses to lurk all the damn time. For instance, and you might remember this one Jedo, in mutiny...I think when I was getting mislynched.....VOX went V/LA right before the lynch to excuse himself for not voting. Kat has a history of going V/LA.

Maybe its just me but if I go on vacation, I stay on vacation. And I don't even see the point in posting while I'm away.

Maybe vacation wasn't the best comparison. However, of note is the fact that these people don't do this at the start-up of the game. They do it later.

He posted a pre-emptive "OH HEY GUYS I'M NOT GOING TO POST ON THE WEEKENDS." This looks like an excuse for lurking. In mutiny, when he was town, he DID NOT post a pre-emptive post like that.

That's the fun part. He did.

[GhostWriter]

I will give you this: I did not like Diddin's jump off of the wagon.

[GhostWriter]

Iso # 2.

[GhostWriter]

Tell me the valid point, in your own words.

[GhostWriter]

Not a moot point, since you just read back to me a part of iso 1 in that game, rather than iso 2, which is what I pointed out. And the point is that he does it in, I believe, all of his games. Regardless of alignment. And if in one game he explains the whole situation but doesn't in another (the whole situation shows that he has a little wiggle room in the weekend posting department), I hardly see that as vote worthy.

[GhostWriter]

I was never attacked. Interesting.

[GhostWriter]

I dislike the idea of nero scum, considering he does have a valid point or am i missing something?

What valid point?

I swear, this question seems so familiar... Oh, wait, that's right:

Tell me the valid point, in your own words.

Still waiting on that one...

[GhostWriter]

In his iso, this is iso

#1

. It is the iso that is labelled as iso #1:

Get back in here and post.

I posted less than 24 hours ago. I can't help it if you guys have ranted three pages worth of stuff. I won't guarantee more than two or three posts per 24-hour period, and this will probably be my only one for the weekend.

Anyway,

vote: Umbrage

. I see Vox's point and in fact started to suspect Umbrage around the same time for similar reasons. chess is acting like I used to when I thought I had a good idea and no one would see the (usually bad) reasoning. That doesn't make him town or scum per se. However, what would normally happen if I was town is that a mafioso would be vocal against me, manipulating my stupidity and taking the white knight of superior reason, and would end up painting me in a bad light (more so than I already did myself) or get me lynched. I see the same trend here. So, since I for now assume chess is town, that makes me suspect Umbrage is scum. If that turns out wrong, I will look at chess.

chess, a mass claim is not a good idea on day 1 (and usually day 2) because it only helps the scum. I just did this argument in another game. The problem with mass claiming early of any kind is that it will only devolve into WIFOM arguments for town (because it's all just baseless information with town) and provide scum some info to manipulate and work with. If scum have more info, they can start to sift probable power roles, use the information to manipulate suspicion onto certain people, and generally confuse town more. Feel free to disagree, but try to keep a level-head about it.

*Addendum because Umbrage posted before I finished: I don't like that last post. Because I already suspect Umbrage, it looks like a scum in a corner. They have to spread blame out while they can. If it turns out Umbrage is town, that post will receive more attention. I stay with my vote.

It is the second iso on the page, however, I did not say the second iso on the page. I said iso

#2

. Which would be the third iso on the page. Which is this one:

I am here and reading along. I will respond to the accusations and weigh in on the new developments tomorrow. I have a deal with my wife that I won't play mafia on the weekends unless she is gone. Sorry for the inconvenience. Weekdays are a different matter entirely.

And what does that one say? Exactly. Fail less. Or fail more, it'll give you votes faster. What makes it worse? I've seen at least one other person in this game make a post that references the fact that they knew where to look when I said iso #2. So I honestly believe you knew what the hell I meant.

[GhostWriter]

I'm sorry, what was the point of that post? I do not understand its relevancy to what's going on...

[GhostWriter]

UNVOTE: VOTE: Fate This isn't "town" you, in the other games you were much different.

Is it scum-Fate? I've seen scum-Fate. I've looked up scum-Fate. I don't think he's the vote at this time.

[GhostWriter]

Wait, you're calling him scum for the fact that he's using caps?

Also, if you know that this isn't town-Fate, then it's scum-Fate. The problem is that unless you read it as scum-Fate, then it absolutely can be town-Fate. You're simply looking at him as a bully because you see caps. How about looking at the target. Give me your read on him. Give me your assessment of the cases against him.

[GhostWriter]

Also, explain how Fate is acting different than in other games. You've pulled the meta-card, I'm gonna make you nut up or shut up on it. Tell me how it's different and provide me with games to use as an example.

[GhostWriter]

In other words, so long as it benefits you to be so, it's a scumtell. Got it.

[GhostWriter]

Couple things, Jedo. First, I'm gonna need some example of what you see as legit scumhunting on his part. Second, I do agree, Diddin should be looked at. Tomorrow.

[GhostWriter]

Thus why I'd like for this lynch to hurry up and proceed so that we have some wagon analysis to use to get the rest of you into the game.

[GhostWriter]

If you'd like to compare this to chess, you're using the wrong spectrum of the game. This isn't the end, it's the beginning.

Furthermore, the game is stagnating. You complained about the fact that there was a period of time where we nit-picked over the smallest things. You also, almost in the same breath, complained about not wanting to get involved in that. Everyone always expects there to be some spectacularly obvious scum-slip that will be made if we just wait long enough. News flash: D1 ends in a townie lynch the majority of the time for a reason. Instead of wasting time waiting for nothing to happen, we can cut through the bullshit to the heart of the game. We've got lurkers who are getting away with lurking simply because of the fact that it's D1 and there isn't anything to go on. There is, no doubt, more scum within the group that didn't actually participate within that discussion than there is in those who did. Problem is, I can't read what I can't read, if you catch my drift. So what do I do? I make the best of what I've got, I find a case in it, and I go with that to get us out of this stupid D1 phase, and hopefully the game will pick up just in case I was wrong about my D1 choice, which, statistically, I will be, regardless of how much I hope I'm not.

Also, as the clock winds down and a move is still being thought over, a player tends to make either a panicky move, or a stroke-of-luck intuitive move. The intuitive move could always have been performed far earlier, but they didn't take it until doing a mental coin flip at the last second.

[GhostWriter]

If this:

Thus why I'd like for

this

lynch to hurry up and proceed so that we have some wagon analysis to use to get the rest of you into the game.

Why this?

I will give you this: I did not like Diddin's jump off of the wagon.

If you just want to lynch absolutely anyone, why hate on 1st day wagon hoppers?

It's about the way that it happened, not that it happened. That wagon analysis I was talking about? It'll most likely not look good for Diddin. And, at no point, did I state I wanted to lynch "absolutely anyone". In fact, I bolded a key word up there for you. "This".

This

lynch.

[GhostWriter]

It's more of the context of the situation. And the person doing it. Like Vezo with the hopping. Played him too much to expect him NOT to do it. Or to do it with reasoning most of the time.

Also, I like that out you gave yourself before the site could be posted. Very nice.

[GhostWriter]

Well, if your reason for wanting

this

lynch is this:

If you'd like to compare this to chess, you're using the wrong spectrum of the game. This isn't the end, it's the beginning.

Furthermore, the game is stagnating. You complained about the fact that there was a period of time where we nit-picked over the smallest things. You also, almost in the same breath, complained about not wanting to get involved in that. Everyone always expects there to be some spectacularly obvious scum-slip that will be made if we just wait long enough. News flash: D1 ends in a townie lynch the majority of the time for a reason. Instead of wasting time waiting for nothing to happen, we can cut through the bullshit to the heart of the game. We've got lurkers who are getting away with lurking simply because of the fact that it's D1 and there isn't anything to go on. There is, no doubt, more scum within the group that didn't actually participate within that discussion than there is in those who did. Problem is, I can't read what I can't read, if you catch my drift. So what do I do? I make the best of what I've got, I find a case in it, and I go with that to get us out of this stupid D1 phase, and hopefully the game will pick up just in case I was wrong about my D1 choice, which, statistically, I will be, regardless of how much I hope I'm not.

Also, as the clock winds down and a move is still being thought over, a player tends to make either a panicky move, or a stroke-of-luck intuitive move. The intuitive move could always have been performed far earlier, but they didn't take it until doing a mental coin flip at the last second.

Then wouldn't you be just as happy with another lynch? This sounds like a bullshit excuse to hop onto a wagon.

No, that is not even remotely what that means. I pushed this lynch myself. I have faith in it being correct. This isn't me hopping on a wagon and tell others "all aboard, let's go to day 2". The other wagons right now look shitty as hell to me by comparison. And this one is the one that will likely go through anyway. No point in bullshitting ourselves is no one wants to be in this day longer than needed. No conversation isn't going to happen to really change it, especially with Nero not defending anymore. If someone doesn't like the case, they can counter it and give me a better one for someone else. But it isn't happening. Why? No discussion.

[GhostWriter]

Hint: Nero's already been bussed and ACCEPTED his death.

That's why he ran away.

Can we HAMMER it now so we can find the buddies tomorrow?

This, and:

Daykill: Nero Cain

People should still vote Nero Cain, just in case this isn't real.

This.

[GhostWriter]

If this:

Thus why I'd like for this lynch to hurry up and proceed so that we have some wagon analysis to use to get the rest of you into the game.

Why this?

I will give you this: I did not like Diddin's jump off of the wagon.

If you just want to lynch absolutely anyone, why hate on 1st day wagon hoppers?

Do we have any antifinity-scum doubters left at this point?

Just looked at his iso. Wasn't really considering him scum, just cautious town trying to understand why someone would push for a D1 lynch so early. Until the iso refuted that.

[GhostWriter]

I just said I didn't have a problem with what you were doing UNTIL reading your iso. Early on, you talk about D1 being "essentially just an appeasement to the cold mathematical logic that if we don't lynch anyone, we're letting the scum win". We had a lot of similar views on things, except I want to lynch someone who has talked, and you want to lynch someone who hasn't. This could mean that you're scum going for people who haven't said much and aren't on your team, and are trying to use both "cold mathematical logic" as well as a Lynch All Lurker-esque method to get an easy town lynch. It could mean that you'd rather just get people you find useless out of the way. I don't know, but I don't really like it when I'm being attacked for sharing similar views as someone, but a different end result. And that same person is also admittedly not scum-hunting when I am. And they only target people who aren't here, for being useless, coincidentally also making them useless.

[GhostWriter]

I resent that. I have my own reasons for being on here. Of that group that all joined it, I had separate reasons from the rest, and I feel mine were the best.

[GhostWriter]

So long as I get first class and a steak dinner, I suppose.

[GhostWriter]

I dislike the idea of nero scum, considering he does have a valid point or am i missing something?

What valid point?

I swear, this question seems so familiar... Oh, wait, that's right:

Tell me the valid point, in your own words.

Still waiting on that one...

Wait, you're calling him scum for the fact that he's using caps?

Also, if you know that this isn't town-Fate, then it's scum-Fate. The problem is that unless you read it as scum-Fate, then it absolutely can be town-Fate. You're simply looking at him as a bully because you see caps. How about looking at the target. Give me your read on him. Give me your assessment of the cases against him.

Also, explain how Fate is acting different than in other games. You've pulled the meta-card, I'm gonna make you nut up or shut up on it. Tell me how it's different and provide me with games to use as an example.

I really would like to have Ender answer these before we end the day. Also, if a person isn't anywhere on the site, I doubt giving a midnight deadline for their claim will be effective.

[GhostWriter]

He's not gonna do it...

[GhostWriter]

Guys, he's right. Fuck cases. Fuck reads. Everyone, off the wagon. We need to go after some lurkers. Let's vote them to force them to talk about the game. Of course, with everyone trying to motivate lurkers instead of providing things for them to read and comment on, they won't really have anything to talk about... But don't worry, it'll work out! After that, why don't we play spin the bottle, only instead of kissing who it lands on, we can lynch them! After all, day one is cold mathematical calculation that there has to be a lynch or it benefits scum, so there's no need to scum hunt. Nope, no scum hunting. Let's focus only on people who aren't here and not on those that are. Oh, except people who yell. Yelling is mean. Not a scumtell. Just mean.

[GhostWriter]

That would be what I meant in 386.

[GhostWriter]

I'm so glad you mentioned this! He was not. The game was Final Fantasy VI. However, America skipped 3 games. When the original port was made, it was called FFIII instead, to make Americans think they didn't miss anything. But the real game is FFVI. When it got remade, this was corrected. It's actually my favorite FF game.

[GhostWriter]

And I now hate myself...

[GhostWriter]

VOTE: Ender

VOTE: Ender

Why?

Now, I don't know what Fate's reason is, but mine stems from your repeated ignoring of and refusal to answer this:

I dislike the idea of nero scum, considering he does have a valid point or am i missing something?

What valid point?

I swear, this question seems so familiar... Oh, wait, that's right:

Tell me the valid point, in your own words.

Still waiting on that one...

Wait, you're calling him scum for the fact that he's using caps?

Also, if you know that this isn't town-Fate, then it's scum-Fate. The problem is that unless you read it as scum-Fate, then it absolutely can be town-Fate. You're simply looking at him as a bully because you see caps. How about looking at the target. Give me your read on him. Give me your assessment of the cases against him.

Also, explain how Fate is acting different than in other games. You've pulled the meta-card, I'm gonna make you nut up or shut up on it. Tell me how it's different and provide me with games to use as an example.

I really would like to have Ender answer these before we end the day. Also, if a person isn't anywhere on the site, I doubt giving a midnight deadline for their claim will be effective.

[GhostWriter]

No, you don't get to try to call him out on that after taking it upon yourself to decide the lynch pool on your fucking own. What kind of shit am I reading?

[GhostWriter]

If anything, emphasis upon the fact that it's Vezok works as a double-edged blade. Scum wasting a kill on Vezok because they think he's scum? Why take out a target with a high chance to become a mislynch (in terms of not being scum with them) later in the game? That's a stupid scum kill, and unless all its members are idiots, at least one would have stopped it from happening.

Preview Edit: Stop ninja-ing me, assholes.

[GhostWriter]

It does not assume the existence of only one scum team. There are so many more options than that. Don't narrow it down to one. Not when dealing with me. I have a policy of assuming at least 2 anti-town killing roles are in all large theme games.

[GhostWriter]

True, but there was no mention of a specific scum-team in Nero's flip and there were only 2 deaths. One's most likely the vig and the other was the Mafia team. Of course, this doesn't eliminate the possibility of a SK that decided not to kill, but...just my 2 cents.

Why would a SK choose not to kill N1?

This. Maemuki comes off as someone trying to look like they're on the "right" side of this discussion.

[GhostWriter]

Only if the SK is fucking stupid.

[GhostWriter]

ITT telling lurkers we're going to pretend to lynch them in an attempt to make them not lurk works because they don't see us repeated say we're doing it only to make them talk and if they were gonna talk, they'd just pre-empt that shit now.

[GhostWriter]

Oh my, that was like clockwork.

[GhostWriter]

Fate, shush. We weren't supposed to scumhunt Day 1. We've fucked this up. We could have hit a townie who didn't post instead. That would have been so much better. After all, it's better to speculate on people not here than to even consider finding scum amongst the ones that are. We should be ashamed of ourselves. Anti is the only one who can lead us to victory. Because, clearly, the win condition is to lynch all lurkers.

[GhostWriter]

No it doesn't. You'd have to not grasp the fundamental basics of mafia to be an SK, be alone, have no one to worry about, no one to care about, the ability to kill at night, and a win condition that says you win when you're the last one standing, and still choose not to kill. I believe the evolution of the SK began with him being forced to kill every night, and it now has the option not to simply because people got tired of writing that they had to and wanted to save time, since no one in their right mind would not kill as SK.

[GhostWriter]

I'm sorry, Bill over Ender? I don't see it.

[GhostWriter]

And that's at the both of you.

[GhostWriter]

The dismissal of questions asked of him late D1, for starters. And did you ever wonder on why the attacking never subsided? Why was it constant?

[GhostWriter]

Luck? LUCK? Oh yes, fuck my case sideways. The lies, backtracking, and hypocrisy meant jack shit. It was only a stroke of luck. The fact is, unless I purposefully butt heads with you, you don't DO anything other than talk about lurkers needing to be our focus, and then lurk. THERE ARE OTHER FUCKING PLAYERS IN THE GAME! I repeatedly try to anger you by trashing your ability to scum hunt HOPING THAT YOU'LL SCUM HUNT TO PROVE ME WRONG, but you don't do it. You have no desire to actively search for scum. You'd rather attack people who, most likely, won't attack back. And you want people to join that crusade, effectively stalling the people that ARE here from making a lynch based on a little something more than "Johnny hasn't talked yet, boo hoo". There are many reasons for lurking. Scum ain't the only one. Making lurker-hunting a scummy thing to do when you're trying to use it as a distraction for the town. Your "case" on me is, what, that I voted for someone I built a case on, and pushing it hard? What the fuck should I do, then? Hmm?

[GhostWriter]

It seems to have become the norm around here, yes. It's been in every non-Marathon game I've played for the past several months.

[GhostWriter]

That's all I asked. I wanted your reads on Ender. And his answers. Good.

Now get ready for it.

Unvote

VOTE: Dry-fit

[GhostWriter]

It's funny that he mentioned Ender or Bill needing to be dead by now and blaming the lack of that on people sheeping Fate, who is calling for Ender's lynch. In fact, had I never left the wagon, we'd be in N2 right now.

[GhostWriter]

This vote has done what I wanted it to.

Unvote

VOTE: Ender

[GhostWriter]

You want someone to shoot? Dry-fit is right there.

[GhostWriter]

Again Fate, you still haven't answered my question. One simple question and you won't even answer, such a hypocrite.

Funniest post in the thread.

[GhostWriter]

So if Fate denied the visit, you intended to kill him?

[GhostWriter]

Pfft, fuck that. Vig go for Dry-fit.

In other news, Ender IS a post-hammer liar, based on another game I played with him. So there's a shot.

[GhostWriter]

Stress? From what?

[GhostWriter]

Oh, hey, look at that. Both Ender AND Dry-fit were scum. Who the fuck would've guessed that? OH WAIT!

[GhostWriter]

Also, glad to have you aboard, GI. You've replaced into a fine game.

[GhostWriter]

Oops.

VOTE: Bill

[GhostWriter]

That's L-1, btw.

[GhostWriter]

How? Oh, right, those 3 scum dead are gonna end up biting us in the ass just because you're mad you're dead.

I say Anti is the target tomorrow. He needs some good ol' rope.

[GhostWriter]

As long as you mean Antifinity and not obvtown Antihero, we are on the same exact page.

Yes, sorry for not clarifying that.

[GhostWriter]

Agreed. Night better not take long. I'm kind of itching to lynch him.