Succession Mafia II: OVER!
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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What is the purpose of this day, if otherwise?springlullaby wrote:Actually,
Mr Flay, could we get a confirmation over wether someone was recruited?
@Cobbler, if roles were what they were going for, Corrupt Cop seems to be a good choice. Or go for the Vig type roles - Pharmacist, Dock Worker, Factory Worker and even Corrupt Cop seems a good fit here.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Read your post on Albert\Kinetic not being able to recruit pregame and just want the town to destroy itself if that's what you mean.springlullaby wrote:ooba wrote:
@Cobbler, if roles were what they were going for, Corrupt Cop seems to be a good choice. Or go for the Vig type roles - Pharmacist, Dock Worker, Factory Worker and even Corrupt Cop seems a good fit here.
See last couples of posts.
- Question if why would Flay-mod design a game in such a manner that it's an all town slug fest in the first day?
- Plus White flag rules denote they've already lost if that's the case-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Starting the game with pre-decided slots as recruits doesn't seem like much fun for the CRs .. As a mod, I would have preferred to give them a choice ..I'm still thinking it's very possible they didn't get to recruit pregame as per what I said earlier.
DGB wrote:Let's give opinions about AS FEW PLAYERS AS POSSIBLE to give the mobsters as few hints as to where we're collectively heading. And let's be unpredictable, too.
I agree with the above - will keep cards close to my chest this game. I haven't played with the Magister. xvart\Hero are good picks.
Vote: xvart-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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-I don't think Flay would have made it such that doublepicking = auto loss for the second guyAlbert B. Rampage wrote:As for saying that Kinetic and I had already recruited at the beginning of pre-game, it's very simple...we want first dibs. Even in a pool of 25 players, we wouldn't delay our choice to risk being the late end of a doublepicking.
- On the other hand, telling the second person about the double picking and allowing them to pick again is actually an advantage (since they would know the recruit of the first guy)
So the most probable pregame pick method was : Both of you send in your choices, if they don't clash, those are your recruits - otherwise repeat.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I really cannot understand the attacks on Cobblerfone. Do people really think recruiters would have targeted him? No offense to Cobbler, but why would I back someone untested .. It's been two months since he joined the site ..
Cobblerfone - 4 (xvart, Flameaxe, bvoigt,Porochaz)
Just making a call on the two(?) recruits for D1 - Poro and Sera ..
DGB - support me on Sera - call it a strong vibe ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I'm just coming from the PoV of the recruiters, given the choice betweenYos wrote:So him claiming unrecruitable is either a "good scum play", or it's a "REALLY bad town play", and that makes me suspicious.
a) Recruiting relative inexperience and having "claim unrecruitable" as a get of jail free card (AND)
b) Recruiting the elite (you for example)
Choice b always beats Choice a because of the added risk of the inexperienced player really fumbling it up.
Disagree with this part .. This question to Tanarin too - You've never seen newbies claim with just one or two votes on them?spring wrote:I think Cobbler is more scum than town at this moment, his claim does not make any sense as town, and I don't think anyone town,especially a newbie would claim that fast under very little pressure.
Does xvart specifically getting lynched today an integral part of tomorrow's plan? While I see the merits in limiting discussion to as few players as possible - Poro, Sera also fit the middle-of-the-line (Good play and don't get lynched often type players) criteria and have pinged my scumdar. Why ignore them?DrippingGoofball wrote:ooba wrote:DGB - support me on Sera - call it a strong vibe ..
Manana, manana...
Magister Ludi wrote:Cult Recruiters are people too
This made me laugh ..
I've already posted my thoughts on this ..Magister Ludi wrote:I also want people to comment on what people would have happend should ABR and Kinetic both picked the same person N1.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Re-read the last couple of pages - I change my mind about cobbler but had already written down a response to Flameaxe and did not feel like deleting it ..@Flameaxe: I know I'm projecting but I think it's a fair assumption to make D1.
I went to succession and read it again. Note Me=Weird replaced Seraphim only on D1. Seraphim was the choice of both recruiters N0. *
While I won't exclude anybody from being a possible recruit tomorrow (because I can see myself recruiting inexperience if most people have good-null vibes on that person on D1), I just don't see either person recruiting cobbler pre-game.
If I am wrong about this, you can rant at me postgame*398: Cobbler went to look this up??
- You know I can buy cobbler claiming with not much pressure on him (like Yos calls it "a VI situation")
- But looking up Succession for somethingthat wasn't specifically directed at him
- Both put together makes me rethink that people might be right Cobbler scum and about CR coaching from the background
408 - "I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I" - him posting a possible explanation on why he went back to that game because otherwise it just looks too damn scummy
Cobbler:"Let me last at least one night"
419 @Zed - "I believe Cobblerfone's claim for the reason that Herodotus pointed out."
436 @Her - See it in this post: "Regarding cobbler's claim, I remember seeing it as him responding to the issue of being sure that xvart was town because cobbler was guessing xvart might be unrecruitable because they had the same role name."
What do you think about the fact that it might be their pregame plan if any of the other teamsters get's wagoned?
Unvote. Vote: cobbler-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@Zdenek
Agree on the long term implications but cobbler looks like someone who can handle himself when pressured (Have to read his previous game because ABR said he read everybody's previous game before making a choice)
WIFOM. And the fact that "They would have never picked a inexperienced person" argument would put us off lynching them ..In one phrase, why would ABR and Kinetic have picked Cobbler?The point of trying to outguess the CR's is to find the scum, and it might work because the CR's are rational humans.
Get your facts right - The CRs are Cylons.
People find me scummy in general in all my games, but the times I've been actually lynched is low ..DGB wrote:Upon serious consideration, I have concluded that ooba is too lynchalicious to make a safe recruit.Hero wrote:If a CR chooses someone who doesn't play well as scum, that player may screw up andmake a scumslipor be caught by people focusing on behavioural scumhunting.
The unrecruitable claim didn't really trouble me that much about cobbler but this phrase ("Let me last at least one night") did - Skruffs said this when he was an SK in random mafia three .. I also remember DGB scum wanting to last another day so that she can become a treestump ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I believe neither recruiter would have recruited Yos - but both are paranoid about the fact that the other could have recruited Yos .. So will definitely use their recruits to see if Yos was recruited or to lynch him ..
Yosarian2 - 4 (Magister Ludi, populartajo, Cobblerfone, Zdenek, Katsuki)
I'll need to read the Magister'+tajos' posts again ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Nobody Special wrote:ooba wrote:@Zenek: Yes, because I think both recruits would have attacked Yos at least once in the day. And no, I don't think he's recruited.
Still haven't gotten around to reading Magister's and Ludi's posts yet ..
I think, upon close and careful consideration, that you'll find that Magister Ludi is only one player.
Meant tajo ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I support Batt in that governor on xvart. Made sense - xvart was town and game was stagnating ...
NS reaction to it does seem over the top.
@LL - DGB and Batt aren't scum - at least not this day ..My theories on the game:
- You've already heard my Yos theory. Both recruiters didn't recruit him and are secretly paranoid that the other did. So you can see possible recruitees attacking Yos at least once in the day.
- Each recruit in the game is probably going to be projecting with his scumhunting here. By "projecting" I mean, he will make similar assumptions about the other recruitee. In short, if an player was recruited - he\she would mostly be focusing on similar players with the same experience and playstyle. For example, if I was a recruit, I would focus on players who have been here for a couple of years, don't get lynched that often, post enough so that they don't called for lurking and whose posts generally make sense.
Went through both ISOs - I don't see Magister as a recruit - like to echo the question from Zednek to DGB.
populartajo is scum. 16 posts ..
- Strong Yos paranoia
- Players attacked {Hero, Yos, Spring, Sera, Tan}
- While a townie might try and figure out who's interactions with ABR\Kinetic appear scummy, I see NO reason why the following questions would need to be asked:
recruiters, who of you picked hero and who of you picked yosa?
tanarin, who recruited you?
See town really don't care whose recruit we lynch as long we lynch a recruit. This is poptajo acting like town who's trying to figure things out. But a townie for who's figuring things out - both recruiters are symmetrical and such thoughts won't ever arise.
Unvote. Vote: Tajo
Going to check out all ISOs to see if I can find other probables ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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LL, by that logic, a mafia faction can still lose the game in pre-game, by selecting two recruit immune roles?
P-edit: The preselected recruit + recruit choice pregame looks better than the earlier method you suggested[hr]90[/rh]
As a moderator I can see Flay having these objectives in mind while designing presume so as to not give either recruiter an unfair advantage:
- No recruiter should get info on the other recruiters choice
- No recruiter should get info on recruitment-immune townies
As an addition to that, I will also design a system so that both cults will get a recruit and hence, cannot auto-lose due to the white flag rule.
Here's how I would have done it:
- Ask both of them to send me a list of 3 (or maybe even 5) names as possible recruits that they'd like - one of whom will be recruited into the team. That will be done by random pick after any recruitment-immune roles have been removed.
This satisfies all criteria mentioned above.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@ThAd: Why in god's name would we include the mob leaders in this?
Also, while I can understand the lurk part of the recruit play - I certainly don't see a recruit posting in other games and not here - since he obviously knows someone will look it up ..
You lurk and post just enough so that you're not called out for lurking .. Something like this list ..
Under 1.3, but at least 1:
Tajo
Ooba
Thad
Chrono
Katsuki
I'm moving one of my votes from Sera to ThAd .. And I thought cobbler was a wasted vote but apparently not - so moving vote on spring to Cobbler .. So my list is
Tajo
Cobbler
ThAd-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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This entire process seems sub-optimal somehow .. I don't think Chrono is a recruit .. On the other hand don't see xvart or Yos either so people should just join me on tajo ..
Batt wrote:Lady- That last post is just wrong. The best chance at hitting the scum is when there is a high amount of them. There is a high chance of the vigs weakening the town tonight if they misfire.
Tajo wrote:wtf are you talking about?
The best chance at hitting the scum is later, when there are a lot of recruits.
With a reduced number of recruits, a vig shoot is dumb.
Just wanted to comment on this -ALL VIGS SHOULD SHOOT TONIGHT.. When you have the chance of shooting a recruit and taking down an entire cult team before it can ramp up in power, you take it .. Because *even if you assume vigs are unrecruitable like in S1*, if you hold off on the shot too long - all you'll be playing is kingmaker in deciding which cult team wins ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Doesn't
He requires prodding and then talks about going back into lurk mode. He hasn't really contributed anything anytime in the last couple of weeks.
clash with
xvart wrote:They don't want to draw any attention and risk being lynched (see previous).
A recruit would at least post enough so that he isn't called out for lurking ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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The way I read the game currently - there's no consensus on any of our reads - so I don't see a sudden shift in voting to any of the smaller wagons - so it's going to settle on Chrono or xvart (or at an outside chance - Yos2) .. So even if you shut down Chrono - it's probably going to land on xvart anyway .. So not much risk in shutting down that lynch if you're a recruit ..populartajo wrote:ooba, what is my motivation to shut down the competing lynches?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@xvart @Magister Ludi, while I agree on the vigging - an vig list doesn't help anybody but the CRs to recruit someone who wont be vigged ..
Vote: Chronopiebecause of minor town tells on Yos, xvart. All I have is a WIFOM recruit wont lurk so much tell on Chrono .. Plus Wisdom of the Crowds-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@Batt
"I'm not confortable lynching someone who has no better chance at flipping scum than random."
Lynching at random is a much better choice than No-lynching when you know there are cults in the game.
Sure I would like a Tajo lynch above everything else and my reads on {Yos,Chrono,xvart} are {Town,Null,Town} - Doesn't stop me from choosing one of the wagons and moving towards a lynch. One of the skills of a townie is effectively reading the game state - You definitely aren't going to get a Ludi lynch and your vote is wasted .. Got to compromise ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Unofficial Vote count wrote:xvart - 7 (Yosarian2, Chronopie, Fritzler, bvoigt, Lady Lambdadelta, Katsuki, Seraphim)
Chronopie - 5 (xvart, Cobblerfone, Zdenek, ooba, ThAdmiral)
Yosarian2 - 6 (Herodotus, Nobody Special, DrippingGoofball, Porochaz, Magister Ludi, populartajo)
ThAdmiral - 1 (inHimshallibe)
Tanarin - 1 (springlullaby)
Magister Ludi - 2 (Andrius, Battousai)
Cobblerfone - 1 (Flameaxe)
Not Voting (2) : Tanarin, Bunnylover
With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch. Nightfall will occur no later than the end of June 14th, server time;(expired on 2011-06-14 23:59:59). Due to the ridiculous number of prods out right now, 12 will lynchATdeadline; 13 before.
Tanarin, Bunnylover, Flameaxe, Andrius, Battousai, springlullaby, inHimshallibeneed to change their votes-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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I dont have a scum read on him - in fact gut tells me he wouldn't have lurked this much as a recruit - But I'd rather take a chance than not lynch .. You can find me scummy for this ..Battousai wrote:You basically want to lynch a null read just because you want the chance to eliminate a faction. That's wrong. Don't be surprised that I now find you scummy, unless you can give me a case on why you think Chrono is scum (link if you've said already if you want).-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Kinetic wrote:So, I have information for the town, but I'm unsure if they'll trust me with it. I'm pretty sure I know one of Albert's recruits thanks to one of my abilities. Is the town interested in learning more?
Any info coming from you is good info. Even if it may be blatantly wrong. Go on ..
Sera
- How are you sure it's a "he"?
- How do you know it's a "track"?
Vote: Sera
@ML: I'm hurt that you club with me along with Ser.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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My theory would be even/odd night recruitment with a kill for a cult-group on nights you cannot recruit.Herodotus wrote:@Ludi: I was expecting more vig kills because giving town multiple kills per cycle is the most obvious way to avoid the runaway double-recruiting problem. Apparently this setup uses a different method. One possibility is a limited number of recruitment shots, another is even/odd night recruitment
Vigs must be limited shot again ..
Yos
- Why did you ask Ser that question - I mean it's usually obvious that people have good reasons for asking for claims
- Why ask that question and then not wait before replying?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@Batt
Kinetic wrote:So, I have information for the town, but I'm unsure if they'll trust me with it. I'm pretty sure I know one of Albert's recruits thanks to one of my abilities. Is the town interested in learning more?
Sera with misread pointed out wrote:should claim his target N1.YosYou
Not his ACTION. I don't want his action. I want his target.
ooba wrote:Sera
- How are you sure it's a "he"?
- How do you know it's a "track"?
Sera said "I want his target" and I thought he was talking to Kinecic about the player Kinetic has info on. So the question which arose was "How the hell does he know that Kinetic knows the target of the player?" implying track knowledge ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Lol. I clicked on the map but never scrolled down - just double clicked again to go to the PNG ..Magister Ludi wrote:ooba, it says so on the wiki (where you are redirected if you click the map) Is there a reason you didnt bother to figure this information out?
And I actually speculated on what two locations might be based on the newspaper report in the signup thread to try and understand the map more ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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The following six people should each state which of them are most likely to have been recruited:
Bvoight, Fritzler, Flameaxe, Ooba, Porochaz, Populartajo
Poro.
I might have been wrong about Poptajo cause his thoughts on DGB resonate with mine ..
Also, @Fritzler:
So in the space of a single page DGB goes from:
- Lynch me cause it's the only way
- ML is scum
- Will scum ever self-vote?
Sorry - not buying it ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Cobber is not a recruit.
Yos, you're really stretching here - why would he announce this at D2 start given that he never may be called out on it? If I had lied to survive D1, I would just keep quiet about it as cult ..
Tanarin wrote:This holds even more weight KNOWING there are at minimum 2 kills that can go flying on any given night.
Where did you get this info from??
ML wrote:Seraphim is also highly likely scum at this point. I have information that pretty much confirms he is lying about what he did last night.
You either have it or you don't. This kind of weak counterclaim doesn't help anyone. (is also scummy)
Well played DGB .. I don't think you'll ever get lynched now ..-
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Herodotus wrote:
I can give you a plausible explanation, but it would be speculation on his role PM, and I'm not sure that's pro-town, as if he's scum it would help him in fakeclaiming and if he's town it would take away from his own ability to claim.Yosarian2 wrote:Explain to me how [cobblerfone's] story makes sense. I just don't see it.
It may be best if he simply claims so this stupid town can start voting for actual scum. Most likely, all but six players are currently voting for townies.
- Flameaxe
- Ooba
- Porochaz
- Populartajo
Oh, look at this! All four of the scum who haven't answered my question are voting for either Cobbler or DGb. Am I surprised?
We can vig DGb tonight if it's really necessary. During the day, though, let's lynch scum.
A - You ask a question but aren't paying enough attention to whose answering or not ..
B - You want to lynch scum but you're currently not voting-
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DGB ~ Hero
DGB mentions Hero as one of the top candidates in #844 but no mention of Hero on D2
In 1637, he speculates I might be cult based on Kinetic's info. Therefore, on some level, he believes Kinetic's info to be true...
Warning: role speculation here.
Seraphim has hinted that he's a rolecop.
Seraphim is a "junkie", and Ooba is the only other "junkie".
So Ooba has a good chance of also being a rolecop.
Kinetic has claimed to have seen DGb's role PM. Either he's lying about that, or he has a rolecop ability at his faction's command.
The rolecop ability could be innate to the CR's, or kinetic may have recruited Ooba.
But when it comes to DGB - on whom Kinetic is actually claiming info - he says "We can vig DGb tonightif it's really necessary. During the day, though, let's lynch scum."
1607
Also tries to downplay the DGB lynch in same post - "
It may be best if he simply claims so this stupid town can start voting for actual scum. Most likely, all but six players are currently voting for townies." ..-
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- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
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ooba Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
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ooba Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
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ooba Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 5616
- Joined: September 14, 2007
- Location: Outpost 31
I think I can back up Seraphim on his D1\D2 claims. There is no contradiction. I don't see why he should claim his action.
But, Sera, you been hitting the Liquor shops a lot?- Hero, ML are not recruits unless they are both recruited
DGB, stop tunneling on non-recruit BL .. I now reconsider my stance on DGB ..
- Unless they were playing a risky WIFOM game on D2, she cannot be Kinetic's recrit
- Given ABR's "apparent" guilty on SL, I don't see a recruit of his being the first to comment or act on it
Hence town for now.Which brings me back to Tanarin - was considering who would make the best recruit yesterday for the CR - Given Hero targeting\spotlight on the bigger names, I would have personally gone for one of the others:
- Katsuki: Good choice but was voted on D2
- Zednek: On VLA for 2 weeks so given what happened to Chrono, I'd avoid this person
- Bunny lover: Play really doesn't inspire me to take a chance as a CR
- Bvoigt: good choice but wouldn't try to recruit cause of [redacted] reasons
Out of NS/Tanarin, Tanarin would have been my choice.
I think the first post of D3 was a slip. Even if townies take stuff at face value, there is always a lingering doubt in their minds. The way he says makes he think he knew for sure that Poro was Kinetic's recruit..
Anyway, went back and looked at Poro's interactions with others in the town on D2, and the only big interactions I have seen is between him and DGB. I dunno if this is bussing, or if he really thought that she could have been a recruit for Rampage. I'm gonna go back and look at D1 and see if it is possible he was a pre-game recruit or not though.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Nobody Special wrote:ooba wrote:Out of NS/Tanarin, Tanarin would have been my choice.
Wait, hold up.
This is literally thefirst timeyou've mentioned me.
Care to explain?
What's there to explain. Went through the list - tried to remove everyone
- Who has been on most people's prob-recruit lists (like Flameaxe, Poptajo)
- Considered suspicious and attacked by some people (like Battousai)
Hiro Battousai, Bank Clerk
Bunny Lover, Factory Worker
Father B. Voigt, Priest
Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith, Bartender (formerly Cecily)
Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster
Dripping Goofball, Dancer/Entertainer
Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop
Katsuki Saito, Bartender
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop
John "Nobody Special" Doe, Business Owner
Bob "pops" Seaton, Junkie
Doc "Popular" Tajo, Doctor
Seraphim, Junkie
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker
Tanarin Oswald, Dock Worker
Anahito Xvart, Teamster
Yosarian Johnson, Cook
Mr. Zdenek, Pharmacist
ISO'd the rest to see who I would have recruited as a CR yesterday night.-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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@DGB: Yeah. I know Poro's last post. Just don't agree with the assumption that he did it not knowing info about flip would be withheld - can't say for sure either way. I certainly wouldn't hard code it and say "Maybe Poro really thought X was ABR's recruit …"
Yes. Katsuki's solid. This interaction was the only reason I thought a CR might have reservations: Kat vs Cobbler
You have my vote on Kat if Tanarin doesn't happen.
To anybody who takes Kinetic seriously:
- Succession one did not have "was a recruit of X" flips too. Just flipped recruited with different colors.
- And powerless cult flipped "Goon" but 1878 made me laugh-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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Yosarian2 wrote:Based on the oddities of his claimed role info that he used to get me to claim, I think there's a fairly high chance that he was cult yesterday. Also, even if he wasn't, he went into the night last night as (basically) a claimed tracker (at least, I assumed that's what he was trying to claim yesterday), so even if he was town yesterday, there's a very high chance he was recruited last night.
I can attest that there are no-oddities in his claim (fellow Junkies sticking together). I don't know if he was recruited or not though; I am leaning towards no ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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That *definitely* was not what I was expecting.Seraphim wrote:No, that's not true at all. I've been trying to mod my game, thank you very much.
I tracked Magister Ludi last night and only received a location. I am willing to claim this location if people want to. Yes, I am a tracker but I think something is funky with my role. For example, my night 1 PM was probably no result but the flavor heavily hinted that I was roleblocked but that I had received partial information. However, I do not think this is the case: I think the problem is on my end or I receive bad results. I did not get a target, only a location from Magister Ludi's travels.
I don't know if the other junkie(ooba, right?) has had similar problems if he has a PR.
So N1, you're claiming to have tracked Yos - yes?. Can you paraphrase the flavor you got?-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
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ooba Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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Yosarian2 wrote:Mm. The problem is is that if I claim location first, and then you say that ML either was or wasn't in that place, then we don't have any reason to believe you. I already think you're likely to be scum, so even if you do claim information that implies ML was lying, I won't trust you with it.
So if I have it right - two things to clear up:
- What happened N1 - Need sera to claim the flavor
- N2: Checking if ML is telling the truth about JKing you via Sera.
-- If Sera claims your base location correctly, ML is telling the truth
-- If Sera claims something other than your base location, then either Sera is lying or ML is lying
So Sera needs to claim flavor for N1 and the location result for N2 ..-
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ooba Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
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