Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[springlullaby]

Posting to mark.

[springlullaby]

It seems I have signed up for a game with heavier mechanics than I imagined. Still I like the flavor, it's cool.

Need to look up last game but the main objection I can see with the cycling claim strategy is that if there is multi scum groups as usually the case in large games - and assuming that passing abilities is only prohibited within one scum group since it looks like a handicap designed to prevent scum from pooling abilities to themselves, it won't be of much help clearing people, and may in fact help scum track abilities whereabouts.

Am I right or am I missing something?

[springlullaby]

Vote magister ludi

[springlullaby]

^^
Toog isn't a treestump since they can't be voted iirc.
Comment on the mechanics, I think it's okay as MoI proposed it, if the power is not claimed it seems useful to keep straight tract of the cycling to minimize possible confusion if power come to pass to scum. I doubt it will do anything beyond that, but still it's helpful.

Crypto seems kinda overeager yet hesitant in his vote, but I think his "vote implosion" stuff isn't likely done by scum.
Not liking warriormode's vote on toog, and subsequent justifications. Toog willingness to go "against plan" is slightly bizarre but I read it as more likely coming from town, which nullify the annoying posting style.

Vote warriormode

Predit: workdawg post was the one above mine

[springlullaby]

@Redcoyote, what is the point of your last post exactly?

I get a derp read on warrior. Same for fourseen. I'm not a fan of the whole cognitive dissonance line of argument concerning stringer, I don't see scum wanting to look town with the whole "I don't want an easy lynch" thing just hopping on the next available wagon.

@Junpei,

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

Projectmatt, I'm not lynching him because he's 'playing badly', rather he is playing very scummy. Go read my post on the matter, Fourseen backpedals hard.

I detect back-pedalling with much hypocrisy from you. Also the whole "case" post on fourseen is just blerh with nothing in it. It's very long and not clear on whether you want a policy lynch or find him scummy.

Vote Junpei

[springlullaby]

Springlullaby, I don't understand the contradiction. My case was VERY clear. The fact that many people have read it and you're the only one who doesn't understand it is evidence of that. And if you think that case is long, you are going to cry later in the game. At first I saw his post and was like "god damnit, he's going to do that thing where he acts extremely scummy and float by through the game", so I voted him. That was half policy/half anticipative scumminess. Then he posted more and I had a firm scum read on him.

I don't like the way you are implying that I'm stupid because I'm finding fault in you whereas no one else has. That's a very scummy reply because it is 1)trying to discredit your attacker 2)a fallacy because you are basically saying "you can't find fault with me because no one has yet".
This is doubly scummy because you have played with me in an ongoing game, and you therefore know that I'm not a particularly bad scumhunter.

Also, there is a misrep in your reply because I never said that your case being long was at fault, but rather that being both long winded and without content was.

But maybe I was too lazy in my last post so I'm going to be more explicit.

Relevant post concerning fourseen in chronological order.

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

First mention of fourseen with vote. I read this as a clear call for policy-lynch.

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

Did you really just come to this realization that Crypto is active?

..
Yeah, you need to die, you're really going to be useless the whole game aren't you? Either your mafia playing awful on purpose or you're town and you're playing awful on purpose. Either way you're playing awful on purpose and need to die.

Again this seem to be a call for a policy lynch(motivation of vote is not a strong conviction about alignment).

No, you moron. It means that you play in a specific Anti-Town herp a derp playstyle manner where you specificly go out of your way to emulate scummy play regardless of alignment. Your "read me some other way" is a clear indication of this.

It means your play is going to be scummy and bad regardless. Even if you are Town odds are you will not help out Town long Term.

No go sit and the corner and stop yapping like a Tea-cup Poodle. Some of us have scum to catch.

Come on MoI, you were in TV Mafia, you saw what Fourseen did, you should be saying this to him as well!

I mean, really look at his ISO, let me show you what I mean:

Alright,,


So Diddin I don't know where you were going in your first post nor do I care...

Warrirmode do you have any sort of postrestriction?

Crypto, your counter case against Diddin fairly weak, but the case on you is even weaker. hmm ponder.....

But looking at the plan from Magna....... It seems like the case be...... you are likely a good target at least not a good informational lynch for town.

unvote. Vote: Crypto

Allow me to summarize

>Didden I dont understand/care about your thought process
>[insert nonscumhunting question]
>Case on crypto is weaker than case on diden
>Magna's case implies crypto good information lynch
>vote crypto
>information lynch
>basically crypto talks a lot so lynch him

The consensus of the posts so far says magna knows what he is doing in this game, so I am going along with it.

>I'm sheeping Magna

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

>crypto is active so keep crypto alive

But.. crypto being active is what made him a good information lynch ergo your entire basis of your last vote! So.. contradiction.

Also he has stated no real reads or given any real comments, he has backpedaled in the above post on the only opinion he had. It's time to get rid of this guy now. He is very scummy already and he is just going to annoy me with his awful posts and people going "VI TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM!". If we encourage this type of play by letting him live, then it will spread. He dies now.

I just didn't want an argument over TV mafia spilling out, I wanted to give Fourseen a chance because for the most part everyone deserves a second chance. But no, he is dying after his recent posts.

Here is the only post where it can be said that you are putting up a "case" against fourseen.
1. This post is padded with paraphrases which are pretty pointless to my eyes, and when you get to why you find him scummy you say that he is backpedalling which is not adequate imo, it looks more like a derp though process, and you technically can't back-pedal in one post. So yeah, that's not much of a case.
2. I get mixed signals, you say in the same sentence that you find him both scummy and annoying: which is it?

Projectmatt, I'm not lynching him because he's 'playing badly', rather he is playing very scummy. Go read my post on the matter, Fourseen backpedals hard.

Then, in the next post about fourseen with no transition that I can see you are saying that you find fourseen full on scummy. Well, looking back I don't think you have much of a case.

This doesn't add up to me and it's what I would call up backpedalling.
Additionally I don't like the way you have been posting so much when your vote is basically a weak case on a weak player. And I'm thinking the progression from your "policy lynch the VI" to "yeah my vote is justified because he is scummy" is parallel to the popularity of the fourseen wagon.
What do you say?

____

I would like to know why diddin is voting Junpei too.

[springlullaby]

I'd say it is a developed read. That's what happens when you're active and constantly scumhunting like I am. Also I find it funny that you say that backpedalling is not an adequate reason for a vote, yet you are voting me for supposed backpedalling.

You are constantly scumhunting...on one player who is clearly a VI? I don't get that because I think town is more likely going to ask for a vig when they are aware of such a player in the game.
I'm not saying that backpedalling isn't an adequate reason for a vote, but that you saying Fourseen was backpedalling had very little basis in the first place.

Using rhetoric like "pretty pointless to my eyes" which cannot be proved false yet you don't explain is trickery, as is "padded with paragraphs", "derp through process". I find him scummy AND annoying, they are not contradictory.

There is a contradiction if you claim one post later that your vote is clearly not a policy vote.

Also I did not imply that you were stupid, stop overreacting, I was refuting your point that my case was unclear. Also, it is not a matter of "you can't fault me because no one has yet", it is a matter of "others have found the subject of my fault as bestowed by you to be such that fault is not in order".

... That's a really obtuse reply. You are basically saying "it's not a matter of situation x, it is a matter of situation x".
Please explain the difference between "you can't fault me because no one has yet" and "others have found the subject of my fault as bestowed by you to be such that fault is not in order".

Also it was not a misrep saying you saying my case was long was you enunciating a scum tell because that is exactly how it was written.

False. Please quote me.

Who are you suspicious of beside fourseen?

[springlullaby]

Prodded not caught up yet.

[springlullaby]

Kdub; lets say that Furclow is i) prone to make that mistake as town ii) not likely to come up with that plan as scum. Isn't it still very realistic to think that maybe another one of the scum members told Furclow to at some point do that? I hadn't thought of that at first, but if they know his meta, they could suggest it.

Yeah, Junpei's still scum.

[springlullaby]

All arguments I have seen on Fourseen is low zone scumhunting, the guy is derp at best. I can't fathom how people can form read on him, except to bet on an easy lynch.
The whole back and forth between stringer and MoI is bad, with similar bad reasonings.

[springlullaby]

All arguments I have seen on Fourseen is low zone scumhunting, the guy is derp at best. I can't fathom how people can form read on him, except to bet on an easy lynch.
The whole back and forth between stringer and MoI is bad, with similar bad reasonings.

IIoA right here Spring. You make dismissive comments yet don’t take a stance that says anyone you are deriding is scummy. Who is scum in the ‘low zone’ scumhunters ( besides Junpei)? Are either Stringer or I scum?

IIoA? What is IIoA in what I have said?
1. You are obviously wrong in saying that 'i'm not taking a stance' because I'm currently voting Junpei who is on the fourseen wagon which I think is the scummiest wagon.
2. I don't think either you or stringer is scum atm. What is this 1v1 mentality crap? Your argument about Stringer was townish when it was made but it has been overstated for very many pages now. I'm not buying it. I think stringer's defence is ok and don't think that his unvote warrior stuff is as scummy as you make it out to be.

Everybody on the fourseen wagon is using crappy arguments. Junpei is the scummiest because he tried to pass his call policy lynch for something more than what it was and trying to actively defend that stance when called on it. The only thing that is townish about him is activity, but when you plough through it, it's just noise with everyone whom he seems to be suspicious of being what I identify as weaker players. Read back his replies to me, I don't like how he handled it. I'll venture to say now that the diddin vote looks like a bussing vote.

[springlullaby]

IIoA? What is IIoA in what I have said?
1. You are obviously wrong in saying that 'i'm not taking a stance' because I'm currently voting Junpei who is on the fourseen wagon which I think is the scummiest wagon.
2. I don't think either you or stringer is scum atm. What is this 1v1 mentality crap? Your argument about Stringer was townish when it was made but it has been overstated for very many pages now. I'm not buying it. I think stringer's defence is ok and don't think that his unvote warrior stuff is as scummy as you make it out to be.

It’s IIoA for precisely this reason – That post had lots of information but added exactly zero to scum-hunting. You just said you were already voting Junpei and that post doesn’t expand on that ‘case’ any. You don’t call anyone else scum in the post. It’s a large post that looks very much like active lurking fodder.

Who said anything about 1 v 1? No-one’s called for that or couched anything in the game as such. I specifically asked you for reads on both Stringer and I given you commented on how you didn’t like out back and forth and that is was bad on both sides. Bad indicates the possibility of scumminess in the vacuum of actual commitment to a position.

I just glanced through your ISO. The only solid suspicion I see is Junpei. You had early votes for Magister and Warrior but I don’t see any strong indication you think they are scummy. Who at this stage are your scum reads beyond Junpei?

You are selective quoting me in that post.
Once you have acknowledge it, how much of what you have said above can be conceived as a relevant and weighted argument?
You post a lot, and your cases are getting progressively more over the top. I don't remember you being that much fuzzy and all over the place from that future/past game.
Right now I think Junpei and diddin are scum, and probably together. The rest is yet unwashed. Not disclosing town reads.
Btw I'm kinda thinking that disclosing town read may be more hurtful than in normal games since it helps scum guess cycling choice.

[springlullaby]

1. So I'm on a scummy wagon so I'm scummy? Define scummy wagon. Define what is scummy about being on it inherently.

It started with something of a policy lynch, but it EVOLVED into something more. That's what happens to reads for town as the game goes on, the EVOLVE. And I specifically explained how and why it evolved, yet you do not care. Define noise with examples, define what is townish about my activity, go through all my suspicions and pinpoint how they are all weak players. How would town have handled the replies?

Prodded.
For the record that's scum rhetoric right there. Town don't "elvolve", they change their minds.
I specifically explained how you tried to pass off your "policy lynch" for a strong case which doesn't exist, yet you choose to answer beside the point each time . Noise is you posting a lot, yet you've been coasting all game with one crappy vote which you defend with an obtuseness that is out of proportion.

As for your "suspicions" they sprung from nowhere when I asked you: toog, stringer, ML, diddin - toog I got derp read on early, though now he has done slightly better, I'll add here that I didn't like you pressing toog for clearing the crypto spot; no reasoning that I see on stringer who happens to be a popular wagon; ML can be considered an exception but I disagree with your read there; then finally diddin who is obv derp - but looks like a scumbuddy to me anyway.
Five scumreads: 3 derps, 1 competing wagon, 1 read which makes no sense to me and which was never pursued actively that I can see and one crappy vote.

Btw I didn't mean to say that you were town from your activity, but that your activity may appear townish but that I happen to know that you do that very well as scum. I thought in that other game that you arguing random points with seemingly no purpose was just vollkan style needle picking but I know better now.

And now you are saying that fourseen is the kind of player you vig. What happened to your scumread which was strong enough to be ridden all day?
---------------

Anyway, I suggest vig didding lynch junpei.

Also I agree with RedCoyote being scummy. He voted twice and both time he jumped on the largest available wagon, with plenty of unrelated comment beside.

[springlullaby]

I was explaining why your scumlist were weaker players.
But yeah, blame me for arguing with scum.

Right, looking for argument "no one can refute" on a super noob player.
Guys junpei is scum.

Just read his scum meta magician mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 23&t=19062

My suspicion on Redcoyote comes from catching up with the game.

[springlullaby]

Scumreads:
IW8573414 - Junpei [Online.]
NV9891464 - RedCoyote [Online.]

Lurkerscum:
HI9210223 - Bunnylover* [Online.]
AB3817120 - Drunken Piper [Online.]..................I didn't even remember this guy was in the game, yet not one prod.
UG9095648 - whispersilk** [Online.]
YN9933507 - warriormode* [Online.]

[springlullaby]

I've posted my ok to lynch list, nothing changed.
@DGB: I don't imagine third party outing a power so early, why do you?
@MoI: why do you find DGB scummy? You have cited no reason that I can dig up.

[springlullaby]

I can't read DGB (and I think peoplewho pretend otherwise are at least fooling themselves) but I don't agree with the reason cited mainly because I don't think Crypto was scum. Scum don't ragequit, I have never seen it done.

[springlullaby]

Huh, I'm voting Junpei. But whatever.
Rereading iso's I'm liking ghostlin over Furc. Ghostlin has a couple of townish post, Furc is mostly derp with the wtf claim.

Vote Furc

[springlullaby]

^^
mostly derp + the wtf claim

[springlullaby]

Catching up. Note kdub's sus list with dgb in it looks like a scumslip.

[springlullaby]

Catching up. Note kdub's sus list with dgb in it looks like a scumslip.

[springlullaby]

Too many pages.
Posting tomorrow.

I didn't cycle an ability n1.

[springlullaby]

SCUMZ

implosion

, vote on magna is very scummy. 1/ Blaming someone with the apparent evidence of NK is scummy as town players have by definition no control over the NK. 2/ The "evidence" used as argument is weak in itself, I don't see how the DGB death/kill implicates Magna . Strong

FOS

. Not voting this guy atm only because he asked for replacement.

RedCoyote

, I agree with the quitting the stringer bell lynch being scummy and I don't see strong reasoning over why you voted for stringer in the first place. Also I'm not liking your vote on FC and Pereg. FC because you just can't tell with derp players, which makes for a very weak vote coming from you. The Peregrine vote I think your argument is closer to policy than to the core of what is scummy. I'm not expressing myself well here, but something is wrong with your vote on her and I can't really pinpoint it. There is also something you said about implosion not thinking that MoI is scum if asked at gunpoint, this struck me as very bizarre. What do you mean by that. I'd also like to know what you think of FC in relation to SB.

PeregrineV

, I actually agree that the move is scummy. 1/Recover seems to be a protown ability to me. 2/She seems to have targeted DGB if I understood correctly (this is unclear), who had a much more anti-town ability, and one I see scum wanting to get their hands on. Why not target Kdub? If he died, from a town-you pov, you would have made sure a shot vig remained in town hands. I also have a hard time believing you would didn't have any ok town read.

Vote RedCoyote

since it has currently the most vote. I also think Pereg is an ok lynch. I'm deploring the fact that implosion is in the process of being replaced.

Lurkerscum/ vig christmas list:
These guys need to be dealt with in a manner or another.
YN9933507 - warriormode* [Online.]
PZ5915512 - chkflip [diddin] [Online.]
HI9210223 - Bunnylover* [Online.]
RX3447924 - wazzatron [Online.]


Notes:

Junpei

, I'm dropping my case on him for now. I still don't like the way he argue over rhetorical points all over the place for no good reason that I can see but it seems to be personality related and I'm ok with what he has said today and his read on implosion. Even as I'm writing this I'm starting to regret it because arguing about every thing on rhetorical basis is scummy as it is counter-productive and undermine scumhunting which relies mainly on good

judgement call

, and the ability to identify them. But no matter, scummier fishes in the sea atm. I'd like to see Junpei reply to this however.

Kdub,

re: why you including dgb in your scumlist look like a scumslips. It comes from observation as I've seen scum do that, but not town. The freshest example in my mind is here (conspiracy-scum list NS as a sus in the "morning" whereas he was already nk'd by the vig). My theory is that scum are more likely to make that kind of slips because they tend to have expectations on who is going to die and in a manner of speaking their suspicions are

a priori

; whereas town rely on checking out the morning flips to collect the info about the NK, and form their reads accordingly, that is

a posteriori

. I'm not going to press that point for now but you doing that tarnish my read on you.

Ghostlin

, I sympathize with his pov in his dealing with MoI and am getting town vibe from it. Also the whole line of argument concerning Ghostlin being more probably scum due to Furc flipping town is flawed.

Toogeloo

, I think the entire behaviour is bizarre (wtf reasoning and description of sequence of night action, I don't understand) but when it comes to facts I think the whisper shot was an OK vig.

[springlullaby]

Actually.

@Mod, what is the effect of recover when targeted at a person in possession of disconnect? Does the effect of disconnect have priority over recover? Or, as it seems more natural, disconnect does not affect recover?

This is a straight PR mechanics question, I see no reason why it shouldn't be answered.

[springlullaby]

^^
No. Sure scum lynch > fuzzy lynch.
Especially in this setup where the longer a large mass of town players remain alive, the longer the game will last, increasing the number of night phases, which make the more likely that abilities may permits confirmation via cycling. Redcoyote is still sus.

Lol scum hiding behind another scum in a 30 players game.

Anyway, I think we should hear warrior reply before going on with the lynch anyway.

Predit: Post directed at Redcoyote

[springlullaby]

BTW I think Peregrine may be slightly more likely town since she seems to be not outright lying about the motivation of targetting DGB.
Still it was a pretty crappy move, one I have a hard time imagining Peregrine making. And the vanishing act doesn't help. Meh, I'm undecided over this.

[springlullaby]

@Peregrine, why didn't you answer my accusation against you but did for other people? Why didn't you think of targeting kdub? Is there really no one you can form a relative confident town read on?

@warriormode, have you read the last pages? Please answer why you choose to target sinistro. And why you disclosed it at the moment you did.

[springlullaby]

Junpei, if not in violation of rules, post of the relevant neighbourhood QT content in its integrality please. I want to judge by myself.
Delete sensible info if it exists. What I'm interested in is the exact exchange between MoI and yourself, without paraphrases.
MoI will have to confirm it.

[springlullaby]

^^
"exchange over warrior"

[springlullaby]

You want the entirety of our conversation minus anything I deem not suitable to out? I may have to paraphrase as per the rules, but looking at the rules... I actually don't see anything prohibiting quoting of a quicktopic. I'll wait for the mod to confirm this, I sent him a PM.

Our warrior discussion is really a gametheory discussion. Is that the topic that you want to be posted of?

If you have mod confirmation I'd like you or MoI to post the discussion because it's hard to form any opinion right now. You both and MoI are basically argumenting over a source material that is not provided.

MoI are you against that?

Other than that I think we should just wait for the replacements then wait for the flip.