Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[PeregrineV]

Vote: XX4698015

(Crypto)

For having the only double letters at the start of their code.

I like the RVS or RQS or whatever stage. It's about the only post in the whole game where you have fun for fun's sake. After that, it's about winning.

I'm sure the claim strategies are fine. I'm also sure the mod won't allow the game to be broken by it, so while planning is good, I'm only for it as long as it helps town. If it ceases to help, or helps scum more, then we need to be adaptable to changing the strategy.

@Junpei- Personality? Well, I'm no slave to fashion, and no matter what it seems my posting style is scummy to a lot of people. I enjoy the use of sarcasm, but it tends to not always be received well. Otherwise, while I want the games to be mostly logic and analysis, I do recognize the signs of gut reads, and try to figure out where they stem from so as to explain them better.

[PeregrineV]

Probably PV. A little too much desire to defend the RVS stage.

Yes. Unless I replace in, I will always take my RV-whatever post.

[PeregrineV]

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

So much for the whole "claim days later thing.", eh?

So, will you be able to use this anti-town power for the good of town, or should you be lynched to make sure the power goes away?

[PeregrineV]

Penegrine: Why are you voting with codetags? Why not names?

Name was included, but this is the first vote mechanic I've played to include codetags. I know they are flavor, but kind of cool.

[PeregrineV]

blah

i wish you would vote

or state some reads

or something

Crypto, can you give me three town reads and the reasons for them quickly?

I'd rather keep my cards close to my chest at this point.

Projectmatt:

I don't like outing more reads than I need to. It gives scum more data to work with and allows them to shape the game accordingly.

Why question him then?

again,

understanding people's thought processes is fundamental to my scumhunting – and everyone else's, i hope.

@Crypto- I get confused when I see you ask others for their reads and why you are scummy, but you want to keep your reads close to you, but think that understanding people's thought processes is fundamental to scumhunting. Can you clarify please?

[PeregrineV]

@Crypto- If you don't plan to give your reads or allow others to understand your thought processes, then why are you asking for the same from anyone?

Re:Fourseen wagon- How did he gain 6 votes in 10 posts when he hasn't said shit? All the while people saying "good case on Fourseen". Fishy as hell.

[PeregrineV]

This post is weird backwards conjecturing, and I don't like it. Stating you think someone is scum, and thus the person the player (or players in this case), are voting are his scum buddies is a weak and flimsy way to vote. Do you actually believe forseen is scum, or just a dumb townie, like you postulate? If he is a dumb townie, I would expect you to be voting for one of the people you actually call scum. Dismissing someone as a 'vi', and an 'expendable lynch' is straight scum mindset, as it often results in easy lynches on town that put town in an inferior position.

A) What Crypto said.
B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Wow, I missed some of his post. Etheral followed not one, not two, but three (count them, diddin, stringer, and crypto) onto the forseen wagon while stating they are all scumbuddies bussing forseen. That is simply terrible logic.

I’m inclined to question your ability to read.
A) Diddin is not on the Fourseen wagon. Good job at reading.
B) I did not say Crypto was bussing Fourseen. I said tl;dr; scum bussing. That was Diddin and Crypto. That was also a conspiracy joke. Otherwise it would’ve been a main point instead of a tl;dr in a reading-intense forums game. See. I make jokes. Haha. It’s funny.
C) I didn’t say Stringer was bussing Fourseen. I said “also scumbuddies” after questioning Diddin’s town read from Fourseen.

While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

There definitely is a reading problem around here.

B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Part of it may stem from the fact you are quoting people yet excluding the forum's automatic name and post numer quoting function. Therefore, you are responding to someone that we don't know who it is.

[PeregrineV]

Like ProjectMatt, get town vibes from him

Feel MoI is town, but never played with him as scum- also like Implosion as town

Unvote.

Vote: Stringer Bell

Unvotes Fourseen because it was an RVS vote, but not for another person. Votes later as part of the 6/10 package.

Want to hear more from warriormode.

Not liking workdawg's 216- chock full of badness, probably because I think both "top wagons" are lacking substance.

pedit- lol, that's even funnier.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry for weekend absence. Catching up today.

[PeregrineV]

LEGITIMATE SIMULATIONS

HOSTILE SCRIPTS

IW8573414 - Junpei [Online.]
SN5795818 - Kdub [Online.]
JW2804010 - nopointinactingup [Online.]

I'd like elaboration on these three reads, please.

[PeregrineV]

My Junpie thoughts:

Only played one game with him previously. In it, he came across as scummy early on, but claimed tracker. Got flack for his early target (Vezok) but otherwise seemed 7x more engaged than he currently is. I know that things change and the amount of time given to one game for whatever reason may not equal the same amount of time given to another game, but the change is in the back of my mind. What I haven't done yet is interpret that change.

Also, this

I am analytical and determined, but most importantly focused. Although I view those things as good, I also view them as my biggest flaws.

Seems to be somewhat contradictory to his two placed votes, which are for this:

Sinestro is... well he's hiplop and hiplop is frustrating. But that won't be the basis of my voting him. He has made 7 posts with saying nothing other than toog is town based on meta, which by the way, he hasn't explained. No comments on anything else other than "MoI /agree" which is something everyone should be doing anyway.

vote Sinestro

And this.

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

Neither of which seem very analytical.

However, this is also something I hold in the back of my mind as something else to keep an eye on.

[PeregrineV]

Alright,,


So Diddin I don't know where you were going in your first post nor do I care...

Warrirmode do you have any sort of postrestriction?

Crypto, your counter case against Diddin fairly weak, but the case on you is even weaker. hmm ponder.....

But looking at the plan from Magna....... It seems like the case be...... you are likely a good target at least not a good informational lynch for town.

unvote. Vote: Crypto

Projectmatt: I don't like outing more reads than I need to. It gives scum more data to work with and allows them to shape the game accordingly.

Preview edit: FourseenCircumstance's vote on me is even worse than diddin's given that he did so IMMEDIATELY AFTER ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THE CASE ON ME IS WEAKER THAN MY CASE ON ANOTHER PLAYER, WHICH IS ITSELF "FAIRLY WEAK."

Jesus Christ, you guys.

The consensus of the posts so far says magna knows what he is doing in this game, so I am going along with it.

FourseenCircumstance, please give me some information that you believe you would gain from lynching Crypto.

FourseenCircumstance, paraphrased: "Crypto makes a weak case on diddin. Diddin makes a weaker case on crypto. But I'm going to vote crypto anyway, not because he's mafia but because he's a 'good informational lynch.'"

Unvote. Vote: FourseenCircumstance.

Here's a tip. The town doesn't win by lynching townies for the sake of information. It wins by lynching mafia. Man up and take some real stances, FourseenCircumstance, instead of copping out on a pathetically and indisputably anti-town procedure.

And not only that, but you justify your atrociously illogical and anti-town vote with a stance that you should sheep MagnaofIllusion because he seems like a good player to you.

1. Good ≠ town.
2. Town ≠ right.
3. Blindly bandwagoning is unjustifiable regardless.

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

it's amazing, the way dropping capitalization and minimizing punctuation can change the tone of your posts

Is this a new method you've adopted just for this game?

------------

so you've established that i move quickly and unpredictably. why are you voting me? do you actually think i am mafia or is this a policy-type vote? if you think i am mafia, then what do you think is the secret scum agenda driving my play?

I like to know why you voted Magna, for starts.

that was one of the weaker attempts at dodging questions i've seen in my time here.

Agreed, ML, ing.

-----------

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3542099
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p3542117

There are my reasons for voting warriormode.

Neither of the links you provided mention warriormode. Did you get your links wrong?

I was going to try it out for kicks but I've lost my patience.

Both linked posts discuss warriormode.

Read the context of the links Sly, they are very relevant to warriormode.

Also if you haven't seen crypto's MD thread then I suggest you check it out. He is probably experimenting on how serious/credible a person looks who uses little-no punctuation/capitalization.

Also, why did you feel the need to +1 a post from page 3?

hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

Post 186-196, the period where Fourseen votes crypto and unvotes crypto.

To everyone saying that Fourseen is scum because of this, I want to hear what town Fourseen should have said.

Otherwise, your reason is crap.

[PeregrineV]

.....

What should town Fourseen have said? 186 shouldn't have even came about, as it is a pretty poor post in itself.

188 shouldn't have happened, it is basically "im sheeping MoI".

196 also shouldn't have happened, if he was town he'd have a good reason for his crypto vote that isn't the reason for his unvoting.

What town Fourseen should have posted cannot be found in those posts, they are:

real reads
real analysis

instead we got backtracking through a contradiction when pressured, and... that's it.

Poor vote early game on an annoying player? What town player would ever do that?

Sheeping town MoI is perfectly acceptable if you believe him to be right. Sheeping scum MoI is bad. The key is to figure which one he is.

But since he did vote for crappy reasons in 186, if he realized he was wrong or changed his mind, if he is town, what should he have done?

You are basically saying he is scum for doing X. So I'm asking you if not X, then what?

tl;dr- Fourseen debacle is null, as town would take the same action.

[PeregrineV]

easy post 186 would have consisted of

vote diddin
FOS crypto

there is no reason in the first place he should have voted crypto with his post.

Why would he vote diddin?
You were voting Crypto, why is his vote bad?

next town foreseen would have gone

blablabla heres actual reasoning that isn't sheeping

Answered this in post to Junpei.

then finally he would have went

oh shit some pressure (i'm not gonna back pedal like a retard)
projectmatt lynched information = blablabla
i have a town read on MoI therefore his scum read on crypto is relevant
junpei you need actual reasoning (this was before back pedaling hard)

theres a bunch of townie answers that could be put in
first instead of being moronic don't do it or at least have your own case.

Probably true. My point is that in this game it's hard to come out and say "I was wrong" without looking scummy. Yet never admitting you were wrong seriously hampers effective scumhunting.

[PeregrineV]

@Junpei- I'm not going to dissect your response, but suffice to say I disagree.

To take one from Dgb, why don't you analyze your own wagon and share the results?

[PeregrineV]

Everyone:
If you are not already voting for one of them, who among the top 3 suspects (Stringer Bell, nopoint, Junpei) would you most want to lynch today?

For today, right now:
Stringer Bell first.
nopoint next
Junpei last

[PeregrineV]

In general, I agree with Junpei on the uselessness of the hider, especially considering the fact the role could be valid, but in scum hands, or it could be a ruse that won't be completely unraveled for several game days.

However, looking back at the wiki description, if the hider cannot be roleblocked, "all actions that target the Hider specifically will fail", then I'd rather see what information Stringer gives us.

Unvote: Stringer

@kdub- You can shoot a lynch leader, or shoot a lurker. I know that activity does not equal town, but active scum are more likely to be caught. Just hit scum and I'll be happy

@MoI- you keep saying two scum teams. I've seen nothing to indicate this. What are you basing this idea on?

[PeregrineV]

I'm ... normal?

Vote:Sinestro!

@Implosion: I'm okay with what you're saying but

Q: Were all abilities available from the start?

A: All abilities existing within this game are present from the start of the game. No new abilities will be introduced after game start.

what if there are abilities that disappear by itself in this game? sorta like 1 shot 2 shot. It would surely affect how the massclaim turn out. This didn't really happen the last game so I'm concerned the mod might get smarter

Well, you acted surprised bout being normal in your first post. What was that referring to, as you are claiming an ability?

I see you did ask about a disposable ability, so there is consistency.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: Hi! What do you think of Toog and RC?

I've seen Toog more active late game, so I have no problem reserving judgement on him for now.

Red I mostly get town leaning vibes from. However, since I feel he would be very good as scum, I am keeping my eye on him.

[PeregrineV]

:: VoteCount 1x25 ::

Furcolow (3) -

Ghostlin, Toogeloo, Junpei

Ghostlin (2) -

MagnaofIllusion, Magister Ludi

RedCoyote (1) -

Kdub

FourseenCircumstance (1) -

EtherealCookie

Not Voting (18) -

implosion, RedCoyote, Ghostlin, springlullaby, warriormode, whispersilk, Furcolow, chkflip, SlySly, DrippingGoofball, Sinestro, PeregrineV, Stringer Bell, Drunken Piper, projectmatt, FourseenCircumstance, Bunnylover, wazzatron

With 24 Alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2011-11-11 14:12:31).

Vote: Ghostlin

This over Furco, much preferably.

vote: ghostlin

i endorse MoI's case

My vote wasn't counted?

VOTE: Furcolow

4 posts.
101 words.
0% pro-town contribution.
Admitted lurker.
Convenient V\LA to extend just past the deadline.

VOTE: whispersilk is who we should lynch.

VOTE: Ghostlin
I just read some of Magna's stuff on him. Good stuff.

First off slysly remarking on another lurker classic.

hmm between furclow and his premature claim and the case that MoI presented on ghostlin I am leaning towards the case on ghostlin just because furclow's ability is helpful for the town at this point.

vote:ghastlin

i'm sorry but kdub that was a terrible shot did you not see the vote count just before hand that was your decision and not anyone else.

But Ghostlin seems like he's the scum of the day that i can see getting lynched and to be honest i want to see what holds in this role of kdubs.

Vote Ghostlin

Still catching up (been busy with uni work, sorry) but from what I'm seeing my vote was in the right place before the shot. Fourseen can't seem to come up with a solid unique comment to save his life. That compounded with the fact that he was so incessantly on Kdub to not forget to use his day-kill is extremely telling to me.

VOTE: Fourseen Circumstance

I'll probably end up consolidating my catch-up posts for clarity and keep some of the other less important stuff in my own personal notes for future reference instead of posting them all in incoherent blurbs like I did in the previous catch-up.

The run-up of Ghostlin to 7 and furc to 4 in such a short time is troublesome. I am capturing it here for prosperity.

As for the Ghostlin vote, he's getting voted by many of my town reads, but that doesn't make him scum. Most of my scum read on him comes from Workdawg, so I won't be voting for him right now. And yes, I've read MoI's case on him, but rest assured MoI can make a scum case on anyone, so I actually read and evaluate the case and the responses. Since I weigh different aspects differently, I can't just jump on it. I will to avoid a no-lynch, but there are others that deserve a closer look.

Furc's claim doesn't make sense to me, really. He has a power that gives an unknown power to someone in the future? Or something. Whatever the claim, Furc is sort of a lynch magnet, which is unfortunate, and not a trap I want to fall into.

My next step will be to look at SlySly and his whispersilk argument. I very often don't agree with the main wagons on day1, and if he found an acceptable alternative and his own play isn't suspicious, I may join him.

Chkflip, you seem to be stuck a few pages ago voting for Fourseen. If you could present a comprehensive case on him I might look at it, but not at this point.

[PeregrineV]

I actually can see the ghostlin suspicion, it does make sense to me; although I have a history of misreading ghostlin pretty badly.. going to talk to andy before I do anything drastic

Good way to say it.
Even though you see the suspicion, do you see Ghostlin as scum? If you are unsure, what percent would you put him likely scum/town?

[PeregrineV]

SO MANY PEOPLE ARE CLAIMING TODAY.

We would have been better off talking for 20 pages and then silently voting.

vote ghostlin

Untrackable via plan, and Furc/Fourseen don't seem to be dying today...

Is that the sum reason of voting Ghostlin?

[PeregrineV]

I realize it's not on the approved "wagon of the day" list, but his posts keep getting worse with each one.

Vote: Magister Ludi

[PeregrineV]

I realize it's not on the approved "wagon of the day" list, but his posts keep getting worse with each one.

Vote: Magister Ludi

How so?

Well, you started with weak cases, but that's OK, we all do sometimes. But then the next cases on your next person was weak also. At one point you were saying Junpei was scum because he had a lot of scum reads?

A few other townish reads of mine are also on your scum list.

Stuff like that.

[PeregrineV]

Wow, I was just mucking around in this,

Radioactive Isolation, Enter with Care

it was deadly. Almost got killed a few times from poisonous fumes and weird ooze creatures (and waffles floating on the surface too?? Weird). It's so bad the weak of heart might not come out alive.

Yeah, but he made it through the first wagon buildup earlier in the day.. It's probably something you'll have to re-address tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

I never said Junpei was scum because he had a lot of scum reads. In fact, I've repeatably called him town from about the midpoint of this game.

None of my cases have been 'weak'. Just look at the last two. On nopoint, we were gaining steam until I realized he was more likely town than scum. I thought the case on ghostlin was good, but something about the way he claimed his ability struck me as town. So i'd rather pursue my consistent number one scum target, warriormode.

Also, the ghostlin wagon is now stuffed to the gills with scum reads of mine.

So, peregrine, care to try again? What are your thoughts on warrior mode?

I have him as null-slight-town right now. But tomorrow is a different story.

[PeregrineV]

He made it through the first 'wagon buildup' because he lurked hardcore and then went v/la, not because anyone became less convinced of his scumminess.

But not enough people were convinced to hammer.

Can you explain why you have MattP as scum?

And specifically which early posts of Warriormode bother you?

[PeregrineV]

Who is matt p?
Why is tomorrow a different story for warriormode? You going to come to an epiphany tonight? Why do you think he is town?

Tomorrow game day, not real day.

His early posts looked like posts made by town, and his wagon analysis struck me as sincere.

Tomorrow, he'll be expected to increase and refine his reads, and post accordingly. A common scumtell I've seen is high post count day1, followed by slacking and lurking once they felt they have enough town credentials.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, explain your ML scumread in more detail again. I want this done today so you don't have the night to 'forget'/change your mind/concoct something.

Shhhhhhhh.

There's any number of reasons to withhold reasoning. At the end of the day, who votes for whom and when is much more important than how or why.

[PeregrineV]

I see MoI's point about the VT vs PR lynching. Town doesn't need to lose a PR, and can afford to lose a VT. However, the PR doesn't necessarily stay in town hands, and we are all VT basically as we "borrow" the abilities and pass them around.

So, taking that out of the loop, I would next have to go to who I think is town. In this case, I feel that both of them are. This is a combination of current play, half-remembered meta (where applicable) and gut. Since I think they are both town, I have to move on to my next criteria.

Playstyle, helpfulness, and overall scumhunting ability/capability. This one would have to go to Ghostlin. I find myself quickly understanding his logic trains even if I disagree with the final result. Whereas Furc doesn't inspire that same sense of organization of thoughts when it comes to those three things. So, only to avoid a NL,

Unvote.
Vote: Furc

[PeregrineV]

I did not pass an ability N1.

With that being said, we know that abilties can be one of three places:

Q: What is the haps with the zones?

A: To better describe the location of abilities and cycling resolutions, for use in abilities and communication with players, the three ability zones are the three possible states an ability may exist in during the duration of the game.
The Activity Zone is the zone an ability is in when it is under the possession of a currently living player.
The Inactivity Zone is the zone an ability is sent to when the player who possessed it died, and possession can be conclusively determined.
The Void is the zone an ability is sent to when possession of an ability can't be determined. Two such cases where this would occur would be in the case of a player being killed yet still being targeted as cycling choice, and in the case that a player fails to submit their cycling choice.

@Mod- Are we allowed to know the abilities in the Inactivity Zone or the Void?

The fact that there is a distinction made between the Inactivity Zone and Void makes me think so, otherwise there would not be a distinction made from the players PoV.

[PeregrineV]

Post with no content.

[PeregrineV]

Just reading the flavor, stringer was "corrupted" for his death. I wonder if he tried to hide behind town.

[PeregrineV]

Just reading your day 2 posts, I get the feeling you're out of scumhunting posts to make.

Thoughts on Implosion?

Just tired, and avoiding work I should be doing.

Looked through the Stringer posts, but he didn't really have many connections to anyone. Voted Furc, also voted Fourseen, etc.

I kind of agreed with your earlier Implosion argument. He has come in since then and posted his response. Do you feel his response adequately addressed your post?

[PeregrineV]

Just reading the flavor, stringer was "corrupted" for his death. I wonder if he tried to hide behind town.

This is useless. WIFOM. Along with your other post previous.

It's not useless. The same death flavor for nopointinacting and Whispersilk confirms it to be the same ability.
DGB and Drunken Piper were "executed", Stringer was "corrupted". How is that WIFOM?

[PeregrineV]

I agree with you on moi, hes pretentious and i generally don't like playing with him, but honestly i dont think hes scum in this game, its just moi being moi. Care to explain what makes him scum rather than just a dick?

Ironically, I don't think he's scum, just a dick. I was trying to make an observation with my first set of posts that a player if they wanted to go eat the WIFOM strawberry and chocolate flavored icecream, could follow the fake evidence and make the conclusion that MoI did everything. The fact that it was sorta splattered across the page with a few indicators (the useful ability that MoI made us unvote a known scum was gone, the player that was mildly annoying to MoI who told him to clean his scumdar) made me belive he didn't do it.

This is what our argument has ironically been about. MoI's saying I'm too chickenshit to place a vote on him, and I'm pointing out I don't think he's that dumb--not many scum leave a trail that point to them that say 'investigate me'.

I need a favor. Does someone have the link to the first Cyclic Experiment? I need to it to answer PV's question.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15875

[PeregrineV]

Pass / Not Passed List

–

Passed an Ability

– MoI, Kdub, Toog (claims pass to Void), Junpei, chkflip, warriormode

Did not Pass an Ability

– Magister, Implosion, Fourseen, Projectmatt, Bunnylover, SlySly, RedCoyote, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, wazzatron, Sinestro

Those not on record (and still alive)

–Springlullaby, EtherealCookie

Better move me to the top category. I did not pass an ability on purpose, so I guess I passed it to the Void.

[PeregrineV]

Better move me to the top category. I did not pass an ability on purpose, so I guess I passed it to the Void.

WTF is this?

I

SPECIFICALLY

said that this was not a good move. The more passes the better the information long term to Town. Why did you do this?

Do you want my ability and target now, or are we waiting until tomorrow?

[PeregrineV]

Do you want my ability and target now, or are we waiting until tomorrow?

If you passed to the Void there is absolutely no point in waiting unless you stupidly sent a realy Pro-Town ability like Doc / Cop / Etc there.

You never know.

My ability was Recover. It allowed me to target a player, and if they die the night I target them and have an ability, I take the ability.

I cannot, in any way, see this as being useful to town.
When DrippingGoofBall claimed his ability destroyer, I figured if he's telling the truth, my ability would go away, and if he dies, I might get his, and if he's lying, then no big deal, since I planned to cycle it to the Void anyway.

[PeregrineV]

Good lord. Its not just about your ability, (which is useful), is the fact that passing abilities is pro-town, as it establishes connections. Do you really not think of any of this?

Lol...so you want me to pass an ability that ALLOWS THE NIGHT KILLER TO TAKE THE ABILITY OF HIS VICTIM.

OK, explain how it is a pro-town ability at all.

As for connections, who is going to ever admit they used it?

[PeregrineV]

PV: I acutally do have an answer to your question on how 'Corrupted' is WIFOMsque. In the previous game there were muitiple kills for each member of the scum team and the SK. Until we see tomorrow's flips, we won't know, for instance, if Stringer's kill is one off (being hidden) or an alternate flavor (like a Vig or SK ability),

I understand. I merely noted it because the other two kills had numbers, just like the dayvig had numbers. I implied that to mean a distinct (person or ability) cause for the 4 kills, but not so much for the "corrupted" kill.

[PeregrineV]

My ability was Recover. It allowed me to target a player, and if they die the night I target them and have an ability, I take the ability.

Umm...are you claiming a Vig or a Backup here? Because if you're claiming a Vig stealer, that's less useful (but still useful) than a Backup.

No, my ability allowed the user to target a player at night. If that player died, and had an ability, you would get it.

[PeregrineV]

I'm sure the claim strategies are fine. I'm also sure the mod won't allow the game to be broken by it, so while planning is good, I'm only for it as long as it helps town. If it ceases to help, or helps scum more, then we need to be adaptable to changing the strategy.

Hm, I'm surprised I missed this during the first go around.

This is very fencesitting-ish.

Basically he says he agrees but he's going to change the strategy whenever he feels like it without any discussion whatsoever.

Actually, I can't single handedly change the town plan, when you think about it.

I decided when I first read my ability that unless I could confirm someone as town in my mind, I wasn't passing it. And most likely not even if I did, since it could end up in scum hands eventually. And town could not make use of it, because while there may be a vig ability, it's alignment can fluctuate. In essence, the Recover ability would benefit scum way more then it would benefit town, ever.

I almost mentioned it when Toog did, about the anti-town part. But, I didn't want scum to even know it's existed, so I Voided it.

[PeregrineV]

You realize that most of the abilities will pass through the hands of a scum member in one way or another, right? I mean, that's unavoidable.

I just think you're bsing us. I think you're trying to play a cutesy act like you were really looking out for us, but in reality this scheme was cooked up in a QT.

I'm not going to sit here and say, "Wow, you are either a dumbass town or scum!!", I'm just saying I don't believe you and I don't think you would've done that as town.

So now there is no argument from you about how useless for town the ability is, because they all pass through scum hands?

(The argument focusing on the ability was not viable, so expand the argument. Check.)

So, instead of saying absolutely nothing, I decided to confess, because....why again?

Forgot to accuse me of making the whole thing up, because he knows I'm not. Check.

So you believe me, and think that as scum I voided an ability that let's me take the ability of the person I kill?

Believes in the action and ability, but not what I did with it. Check.

You seem to want your cake and eat it too. And you seem more upset that I scrapped it than would be normal. And you never mentioned who was town enough to pass it onto. Instead "they all go to scum anyways".

I'm not going to sit here and say, "Wow, you are either a dumbass town or scum!!", but your thought process as town does not compute.

Vote: RedCoyote

[PeregrineV]

No time this weekend, will be catching up Monday.

[PeregrineV]

skimmed from Page 53. Need to go back to re-read and respond.

Until then, I think leashing Sinestro is fine. Sure, he won't survive more than a day or two, but he got caught and I think using him to blast scum isn't a bad thing.

[PeregrineV]

No, my ability allowed the user to target a player at night.

If that player died

, and had an ability, you would get it.

Lemme highlight my problem area there. Done. Nowhere do you acutally mention that

you kill

the player. As the ability reads, you target the player and if the player dies, instead of going to Inactive Zone, you would get that ability. No one in that grammar does it indicate to me that you acutally KILL the player you target. In other words it could be used as a backup. In the first case, it's a oneshot Vig that could be used to rip the ability from an antitown player (Stringer Bell would be an excellent example here). In no universe would it be completely useless.

No, I gain the ability of the person who dies.

So I have to know who is going to be killed at night. Please explain how town would ever know this?
But, with recent developments, we could have passed thw ability to the SK who could kill and rip the power from his victims, and then send the powert back to town. Right?

Let's play example time here. MoI and a number of Town believed Stringer was Scum but he had the Hiding ability, which is excellent in the hands of Town. If your ability acutally killed Stringer, you would get a protown ability that was valuble to town. This...is not what happened. You targeted DGB and didn't pass the ability...

How can I kill the hider, again? And if you read DGB's ability, his ability destroyed mine, so maybe I didn't have it to pass? (But yes, my intention was to not pass it).

Here's my problem. You're either scum or dumb. I mean, dumber than me when I didn't understand what Void did. I'm getting strange feelings from ML and PV at the moment, and since PV admitted he didn't pass..

Probably just dumb, since I got a town role.

But seriously,

can you see how the role I dumped benefits scum more than it benefits town?

[PeregrineV]

I have no intention of accusing you of "making the whole thing up". You probably did have an ability. You probably did not pass it.

I do have an intention of accusing you of lying about the rationale behind not passing it. It wasn't to help the town, as you claim, but to prevent the town from tracking

where

you passed the ability. The scum know that, especially in the early game, it's not worth the risk of passing it to a fellow scum member. If they do, then one of them is dying. If they pass it to a townie, then it helps the town gain that much more valuable information. So, what's the solution? Come up with a plan to get rid of the ability. The problem is the scum team (which I was apart of) went through those same motions during the last game. It was a different situation, but the intention was exactly the same.

The problem I see is that I'm either scum, which means you shouldn't believe anything I say, since who knows what is true and what shit I might try to throw town's way,
or you think I'm town, in which case you believe I did what I did for the reasons I did.
Trying to have it both ways doesn't work.

And you seem more upset that I scrapped it than would be normal. And you never mentioned who was town enough to pass it onto.

Well, it isn't my responsibility to give you your townreads, and it certainly isn't my fault that you haven't been able to secure any for your own yet. You could always ask if you need advice. You certainly could have passed it to me for a guaranteed town pass, but also MoI, Ghost, Bunny, Toog, and DGB would've been passes I would've considered at the time in question.

No, and the power night1 was my responsibility. I don't consider it useful for town, since town consists of me and dead people. If, in my mind, I had someone I could confirm, I might have passed to them (if the vig had plugged scum, for example, I'd probably have sent it to him).

Additionally, I love how you cannot retort to my statement that most every ability will eventually end up in scum hands (which is a good thing, btw, because it will help us track this game), so, instead, you just try and besmirch my intentions.

Your intention is to call me a liar, but only about why I did or didn't do anything. And to lynch me.

although I'm not so sure scum-Peregrine would have volunteered the information in that case.

Because it's WIFOM, Kdub.

I would have not mentioned it until the next day when we declared our targets, except for the fact in Post 1284 MoI had Toog's "pass to the Void." Since I did the same, I went ahead and claimed it.

Pass / Not Passed List

–

Passed an Ability

– MoI, Kdub, Toog (claims pass to Void), Junpei, chkflip, warriormode

Did not Pass an Ability

– Magister, Implosion, Fourseen, Projectmatt, Bunnylover, SlySly, RedCoyote, Ghostlin, PeregrineV, wazzatron, Sinestro

Those not on record (and still alive)

–Springlullaby, EtherealCookie

[PeregrineV]

No I don't. Someone claimed Hider; anyone should have seen that your role should have targeted the person with Hider because they are the most high profile targets as it has a very protown ability.

Either you're scum, or you messed up.

Hider

While Hiding, the Hider itself is considered an ineligible target for actions - all actions that target the Hider specifically will fail. This applies even to otherwise "piercing" abilities like Strongman kills.

It makes no sense for me to target the hider.

[PeregrineV]

Wait, what? Why would I need to be lynched at all under any circumstances regarding what happened here?

Your initial reluctance to support the lynch of a guilty lead me to iso you looking for a connection to Sinestro. You completely avoided discussing him all game other than giving him a reasonless town pass in your summary post.

However, Peregrine has stepped up and passed you on my suspect list. Anyone supporting a leashing of Sinestro is scummy to me. After a mislynch, 2 misvig's and 2 NK's, it is a no brainer to lynch an outted non-Eruci Sinestro. I don't see the town benefit in chancing another mislynch and leaving Sinestro alive to possibly kill more townies. I also don't believe Sinestro is 3rd party, it's already confirmed he is a liar and more than willing to gambit.

Too bad. I still maintain town can leash the SK under normal circumstances.

However, A thread search for Daevori returns this:

Mod wrote:Welcome, MS1775305, [Callsign Playername.]. You've realized what they are doing. The rest of the test group doesn't understand, but you are more insightful than all of them. It makes sense, you are The Asxtori. They don't deserve to make it out of here alive, they fell for the lies too easily, they're just a detriment to society. Its up to you to purge this group, then expose this "experiment" for its true darkness. They made the wrong choice letting you in on this one.

Ability Cycling: You are not necessarily a part of the ability cycle. You will receive an Ability Message at the start of each Day Phase, and will be able to select who to pass the abilities to, but you will not be able to use any of the abilities within your designated Ability Message.

Factional Ability: You have the ability to terminate one person from the simulation each Night. Failure to submit the kill by the end of the Night will be considered a No Kill. Your removal method is: purged.

Ability Hoarder: Any abilities that you remove from the game through either killing a player with your factional ability or by being the hammer on their lynch become a permanent part of your ability list. You may use one of the abilities available to you each Night, in conjunction with your factional kill.

Secrecy Pays: You will survive the first attempt made on your life during a Night Phase.

The Asxtori Win Condition: You win if only you are alive (or if nothing can prevent the same).
[Standard Serial Killer Win Condition.]

Game Topic is here: Cyclic Experimentation Set x01.

Reply by PM to confirm you understand your role and win condition.



Besides its factional kill, the Serial Killer had a special ability known as Ability Hoarder. Upon hammering or killing a player with the factional kill, they would receive any ability the dying player had, and could select one of the available collected abilities to use in conjunction with their kill. This was why DGB was extremely hammerhappy this game. Now, DrippingGoofball discovered an interaction I had not considered, and very nearly won her the game. After purging q21, she received the Treestump as an option. Had she been left alive till Night 5, she could have then selected the Treestump as a secondary ability, making her effectively unlynchable and unkillable, and with only one Daevori alive, she would have at that point won the game. So lynching DGB the day you did was the best (and truthfully the only option) you had that day. If you review Day 5 with this situation in mind you can see that DGB's desire to live only one more day became quite apparent, and something that I reflected in the lynch flavor of that day.

Please explain the correlation between Furcolow's claim and yours, I'm not sure I see it.

pedit:I'm thinking that we have a "no one give any abilities of any worth to furcolow or FC" and then we kill them tomorrow. Yes I know lining up lynches is bad, but this is what I think is a good idea.

This is no mere SK. You would also get the abilities of the person you kill (like the ability I tossed), but permanently. You forgot to mention that.

Also, in one post you say you are full bulletproof, then next you're saying you'll probably be nightkilled anyway.
So, now it looks like you are faking it all.

Unvote.
Vote: Sinestro

[PeregrineV]

--

No, I gain the ability of the person who dies.

So I have to know who is going to be killed at night. Please explain how town would ever know this?
But, with recent developments, we could have passed thw ability to the SK who could kill and rip the power from his victims, and then send the powert back to town. Right?

Town should be able to make a pretty good read of who they think might die at Night and take their best educated guess. And down the line it’s would have been great defense when a Player has to claim a strong passed ability to survive lynch.

I don't understand this. How can claiming to have passed an ability allow someone to "survive lynch"?

Your little Appeal to Fear is noted for coming days.

Glad you took note of it. What fear did I appeal to actually?

But seriously, can you see how the role I dumped benefits scum more than it benefits town?

But seriously, how can you continue to not see that the strength of cycling powers isn’t just in their usefulness as roles but in the many PoE eliminations they can create over the course of days?

OK, so you'll have to explain this also. If player A passes to player B who passes to player C who passes to player D, how the hell does that catch scum?

No, and the power night1 was my responsibility. I don't consider it useful for town, since town consists of me and dead people. If, in my mind, I had someone I could confirm, I might have passed to them (if the vig had plugged scum, for example, I'd probably have sent it to him).

WTF did you sign up for this game if your attitude is “I can only pass to confirmed Town and I’m too stubbornly stupid to understand that passing is good long term”? This question is null and void, of course, if you are scum. Then you are doing a great job looking the part.

1.That's not my attitude.
2. I probably am stubbornly stupid.
3. I don't understand

EXACTLY

how passing clears anyone. But, I mentioned that in the repsonse above, so when you answer that this will become meaningless.

[PeregrineV]

If we lynch Sinestro today, since I know we won't have to worry about extra kills for a bit, I will GLADLY volunteer myself for lynching tomorrow just to remove myself as a distraction if you want Magna, but I swear to god, if you don't get lynched sometime shortly after me, I will be SORELY disappointed in this town for putting up with your bullshit manipulation cases. All you do is paint people as ugly as you possibly can. You don't actually use evidence, you have to twist every sentence that someone that you don't like says into a way for you to make them a target.

If you know this, then why do you let it get to you? MoI's posts should receive as much weight or credence as your read on him dictates.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine, why didn't you answer my accusation against you but did for other people? Why didn't you think of targeting kdub? Is there really no one you can form a relative confident town read on?

@warriormode, have you read the last pages? Please answer why you choose to target sinistro. And why you disclosed it at the moment you did.

Kdub declared himself 1-shot dayvig. He shot and killed town. I didn't know if he was town, but either way, I didn't think he had more shots.

Did you also ask about Stringer? If so, his being the hider meant he was untargetable.

I have a few more that I lean town on today than yesterday. I'm not against passing on a normal ability and taking my chances, but that one seems way more beneficial to scum than to town.

@Mod: V/LA Nov 23-Nov28. May get a chance to log-in, but may not.

[PeregrineV]

I'm back, and will be catching up today.

Unless something miraculous has happened, I think Sinestro is lying, and won't be changing my vote.

[PeregrineV]

@MoI- maybe I missed it in your reply, but what were your reasons for choosing Junpei to neighborize?