Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[RedCoyote]

A bizarre experiment in Chamber c9098 has successfully created a method of cycling that allows any anti-town factions existing within the game to pass abilities to subjects within their team. But this power is not without its consequences. If an anti-town factional member chooses to cycle an ability to one of their partners, it will cause them to be poisoned, and die the following night.

Everyone needs to tattoo the above paragraph on the back of their eyelids. This is so very, very important to remember, especially later in the game. I might go so far as to post this after every new game day starts just as a reminder to everyone.

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Post your personality. If you have two separate personas "ingame, real life", then make them separate.

I try to check my emotions at the door if at all possible when playing mafia.

I'd say I have a very generic personality in real life, but I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm sure any junior psychology majors would have fun with that.

Please don't start an argument on day 1 diddin. I know that that wasn't your intention, it's just that I know what you're talking about and I don't want any of the day absorbed in a fit.

There's something a little too defensive about this quote given the fact that FC hadn't posted yet.

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1: there might be some kind of ability which can explicitly stop the poison kill. If this is the case, and the ability has no beneficial aspect, then that person should claim either today or tomorrow. We can deal with it by dumping it on someone scummy and nuking them out of orbit. or lynching also works. It's also theoretically possible that the scum have some kind of poison kill though, so yeah.
2: there might be some normal protective ability (like a doctor) that happens to protect against the poison kill.

If anyone has a doctor ability, then they should ask the mod if that ability will protect against the poison kill.

They shouldn't claim, for obvious reasons. They can claim later.
3: the scum have an ability which directly combats the poison, for example, a factional one-shot free pass-between-each-other ability to prevent us from clearing people. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is in the game after the strategy we wound up using last time, and there's no way to detect it, so people who pass abilities to scum or get them are probably just going to be somewhat townier, as opposed to being clear.

1: Agreed.
2: Agreed.
3: Definitely agreed.

Thoughts?

This sounds fine to me.

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if you read the x01 plan then why did you only say this in your third post instead of using it to kickstart the convo in an earlier post

I love this post. This is the kind of critical interrogatory that I can grab onto and squeeze tightly.

Vote: Junpei

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Am I right or am I missing something?

I tend to agree with this, but I think as long as we hold out with the caveat that there may be a third-party role... I don't see how it will ultimately hurt us in the end. Believe me, I'm the last person to nod my head when someone calls another player confirmed, especially in a theme game.

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Official Passing Strategy

–

The Cyclic Claim process is a two step process.

Step 1 - The Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim to have passed a power. You do NOT claim the Power or who you passed it to.

Step 2 - The second Day after you cycle a power at Night in your first post of the day you claim who you passed the power in Step 1 to. In the case of possessing multiple powers you claim every person you passed the to. You do NOT claim what the power was.

This process is ongoing and can result in multiple claims in any given day. For example -

Day 2 everyone claims if they passed a power Night 1.
Day 3 everyone claims who they passed their power to Night 1 and if they passed a power Night 2.
Day 4 everyone claims who they passed their power to Night 2 and if they passed a power Night 3.
And so forth.

Yeah, I like this. Speaking from experience as well, this really helped do the scum in last game. MoI put it best, it's too useful for us not to do it again. While I won't go so far as to say it would be bastard of the Mod to put in some counteractive measure against the town relying too heavily on passing as a scumhunting tool, I still agree with the premise here.

Also fair warning – Any player that sends a powerful Pro-Town ability (Doc / Investigation / Vig) out of play by ‘forgetting’ to send a cycling choice is to be lynched immediately. I put this out there so no-one can claim “oops, I forgot”.

This is too absolutist for me, but I'm willing to oblige any increased sense of scuminess on this basis.

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Discussion for the most part hasn't devolved from setup discussion and personality discussion. The votes out there are still more or less random, and not much discussion to promote moving out of the RVS yet.

A little detached for my taste, but at least you're being honest.

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for a loose cannon you are awfully conservative with your vote

Agreed.

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I'm sure the claim strategies are fine. I'm also sure the mod won't allow the game to be broken by it, so while planning is good, I'm only for it as long as it helps town. If it ceases to help, or helps scum more, then we need to be adaptable to changing the strategy.

This goes without saying. Seems like you're talking here just to be talking.

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Saying your playstyle generates scum-reads as you did is Anti-Town. If you are Town you’ve only given scum an open invitation to attack you by self-admitting you are naturally ‘scummy’. If you are scum it’s a pre-emptive measure to say “I’m not scummy, it’s my playstyle” which is a complete cop-out. Neither serves Town’s interests.

Agreed.

@Toog

– why not vote for someone right now. That’s be great! At least until we get a vote-count. Thanks in advance!

I think you and crypto have more in common this game than y'all may have otherwise thought.

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Why is everyone so interested in me putting a vote on someone?

Why not?

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Stringer, justifying rolefishing with trying to further explain a post which carefully does not rolefish, rather tries to stay true to the plan of which no one is opposing, is ridiculous. Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars.

I like this point.

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Unvote

. Still had it on Fourseen from RVS, no reason to keep it there since we've clearly moved past RVS/RQS.

I very much dislike this unvote without revoting. Especially at this precarious time for you as you start to get more pressure on your Toogeloo stance.

Not at the moment, I'm not sure of the warriormode wagon and don't want it to get out of hand this early in the day. Nothing worse than quicklynching day 1.

In a 25 player game? Are you serious?

Unvote

;

Vote: Stringer Bell

Stringer Bell, Toogeloo, and Junpei all strike me as off so far. We still need to hear from whisper & Fur.

[RedCoyote]

Because I thought it was gibberish. I don't care if Toogeloo thinks he's being smart by "withholding information" (it seems to me like he's been fairly loose lipped so far anyways for someone who claims not to have much of an impact during the first part of the day), I'll still vote him if I think he's scummy. I didn't let him get away with that nonsense during DEFCON 3.0, why should this game be any different?

[RedCoyote]

Additionally, in regards to your Stringer comment, I'm not sure how I could articulate any more than that. Nothing struck me during my initial readthrough of this game until his reluctance to actually cast a vote and his lame excuse that he was scared to put more pressure on warrior. I think it is more worthy of acting on then my gripe with your suspicious failure to mention planning earlier. Plus you happened to benefit from calling out Stringer before anyone else did.

[RedCoyote]

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?

No, I don't.

Why is it that when I forget ONE thing, people think it's scummy. I know I'm great and all, but I'm not a perfect person.

Self-pity isn't helping your case.

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hmmm..... Ponder.....

Crypto is a pretty active player and that is very helpful for the town early on to generate discussion and what not so I'd like to see him stick around.....

unvote

I know this has been beaten like a dead horse, but this really is too beautiful to not take advantage of for D1. Can anyone read over FC's activity on page 8 and feel as though this is a natural progression of thought for a townie? If so, are you willing to actively fight for him?

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Predicted counterwagon in 3...2...1...

Could you elaborate on this comment, please? (Who, When, What, Why, & How)

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No opinion on warrior yet

I felt the same. I'm having trouble seeing how warrior earned so many votes. I think the wagon feels artifical.

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I didn't want to lynch warrior because I didn't think that the case against him was very good, and a quicklynch on a mediocre case is not a good start to a game.

I still don't think that quicklynching D1 is a good idea, but in this game you rarely get thrown the two posts that Fourseen threw us.

Although I still am not comfortable with you, I think this is the best answer you probably could've given.

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Fourseen's lynch isn't viable for information as it comes off more policy lynch-ish and people just want to get rid of him.

I get the complete opposite reaction. I think his connection to crypto is solid.

Why did you drop your discussion over your power? Why bring it up if you're not going to use it (as a discussion piece)?

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Did you miss the part where I specifically called out, before any of his posts, fourseen as a clear VI? He is.

...and this excuses him from being scum?

I don't see what he did as very scum motivated.

I do. I think it's possible he wanted to be noted as voting crypto, but without commiting to or making any sort of effort to prolong crypto's wagon.

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Just iso warrior, should be self evident.

No. Wrong answer. If you don't have a strong enough argument to lay out a case for everyone to see, then you don't have an argument at all.

Moreover, this only serves to further validate my issues with the warrior wagon already. If main proponents can't be bothered to make their case, then it's likely because there's little case to be made.

hmmm. Why?

You ask why should you fight for what you believe in?

Keep in mind that it's not just MoI you're talking to here. Everyone reads these posts.

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Your ego gets in the way of stepping back and looking at other people's play. You are currently arguing that I'm scum because I have a play style with which you disagree. Get a grip.

As much as I like his analysis, I'm getting a similar vibe.

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Re:Fourseen wagon- How did he gain 6 votes in 10 posts when he hasn't said shit? All the while people saying "good case on Fourseen". Fishy as hell.

The issue was with his vote and unvote on crypto. Did you see those two posts?

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I'm more letting people know you are just generally bad.

Can we get serious, please?

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It looks like you put an RVS vote on warrior and then somehow evolved that into legitimate suspicion without explanation. You seem far more supportive of a warrior lynch than your posts have justified at this point.

This. I got the same sense. This is why I'm pushing ML on this point.

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This isn't a game of ethics. Stop trying to turn it into one.

Why isn't Pere's request a fair one?

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I stand by my Fourseen vote, I haven't seen anything from him to make him less scummy than he was, nor anything from anyone else that has been scummier than Fourseen.

If this is directed at matt, I don't like how nonchalant it is.

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Also he has stated no real reads or given any real comments, he has backpedaled in the above post on the only opinion he had. It's time to get rid of this guy now. He is very scummy already and he is just going to annoy me with his awful posts and people going "VI TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM!".

I like this.

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Can we get back on Warrior please? Or at least off of Unforseen until he comes back with other contribution? Thanks.

I don't like this. Why does it bother you that UC has a few votes? Do you know something about his alignment that we don't?

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At the end of the day, who votes for whom and when is much more important than how or why.

I agree with this, but, in case you haven't noticed, it isn't the end of the day. So we don't have the luxury of working with votes in that way.

It was at this time that forseen came in and posted, and the entire world suddenly came down on him. It looks like the growing of the forseen wagon is in direct response to warrior's wagon growing larger, which indicates to me that the scum were concerned that warrior may have been lynched and wanted to pile on an easy mislynch, that being forseen, and force it through.

This is a fair point. I like this post in general, and I'm glad you made it. It makes your motivations seem much more sincere.

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Joke posts – which the nauseatingly pretentious, socially bankrupt players who infest this site apparently can't recognize if I don't hang Las Vegas lights on them – are the exception.

I was honestly surprised you'd be willing to join a game this large with this many unknown variables in the player list. Then again, I had thought you had written this site off altogether.

As an aside, if it's really that frustrating to you, I'd recommend you stick with smaller, more structured boutique games if you're simply going to piss and moan about the "players on this site" all day. Sorry, there is just no middle ground between the retardation of EM and the ostentation of MS. Naturally, there's some cross-breeding between the two. And, of course, there's always cool guys like me, but, really, suck it up or go home, man.

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A case on Warrior so far is impossible with his amount of posts, but here's the reason why I initially voted him. (i've had my reasoning's scattered throughout a lot of my posts but they need to connect together.)

This is a much better post than your last post. It also seems a touch more relatable than ML's recent posting.

I get a good town vibe off you, matt. Don't let me forget I said this.

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While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

Why me = Fry me

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I would like a more detailed explanation on your warrior scumread, because the case against him is terrible

Do you think he's being dishonest or do you think he's just wrong?

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Note that in all the explosion of play that Toogelo has faded into the background. He continues to provide no reads or positive input.

Agreed.

Both Junpei and myself have clearly explained that Fourseen is a Shotty style VI.

Okay, but what's the plan, then? Just ignore him and have him tag along for the ride?

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I used my ability on Crypto.

What are you talking about?

[RedCoyote]

Did warrior ever talk about FC? I need to go check that out.

[RedCoyote]

Nice deflection.

You basically chose to comment on Stringer and said effectively “He’s sort of scummy but I’m not sure if he should be voted”. You’ve just laid the groundwork to go either way on him depending on the wagon and to have an out if he ever flips.

Town doesn’t have reason to lay ‘escape hatches’ like that.

Great catch, MoI. Workdawg has been slipping beneath my radar a little bit, but this paints him in a negative light.

I don’t see that at all.

Fair enough, but I see it as a reasonable possibility that is certainly worth the pressure he has gotten.

On one hand you present EpicMafia as the scourage of Mafia existence and then turn around and use a phrase that germinated and became well know from there.

Well, I'd hardly use that kind of language. I was being tongue in cheek with crypto knowing that he favors that website. I've no major qualms against EM; I was more trying to get a point across specific to crypto's attitude. That being said, I'm prepared to go to the mat over the idea that defensiveness = scumminess because I've seen it be effective too much not to.

Also I disagree that asking EC to support his reasoning when it was highly suspect (as I pointed out myself) is ‘Why Me’ posting.

I don't care where the question originates, but if the ultimate rebuttal is some trumped up, faux-astoundment at the thought of being interrogated, then I'm going to jump on that every time.

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@Redcoyote, what is the point of your last post exactly?

I know I write too much, but I feel like, if I don't, I'll forget details later in the game.

In other words the "point" is just to catch the players up with my thoughts on the game seeing as how I cannot visit them website every few hours.

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Just to reiterate. I think there is an almost zero percent chance that Fourseen is actually going to flip scum.

Why would you feel the need to reiterate this? You're on record as coming to bat for FC (among others), and there's nothing that's going to change that.

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I don't like the way you are implying that I'm stupid because I'm finding fault in you whereas no one else has. That's a very scummy reply because it is 1)trying to discredit your attacker 2)a fallacy because you are basically saying "you can't find fault with me because no one has yet".
This is doubly scummy because you have played with me in an ongoing game, and you therefore know that I'm not a particularly bad scumhunter.

I like this point. I felt similarly, but I wasn't sure how to articulate it.

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Did this lead you anywhere?

He didn't mention him (aside from addressing a pointless question and making a note that crypto voted him). Does that concern you?

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You're better than this word macaroni salad when you're town.

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Okay... so DrippingGoofball has no actual reads, and is instead just putting up a list to give the appearance of scumhunting, got it.

Let the master work her magic and be thankful you're here to witness it.

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@Game so If no one thinks I am scum, then why am I still the leading wagon...

@FC Try worrying less about your own fate and more about the fate of your faction...

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I think crypto replacing out in the way he did is actually a large town tell.

I tend to agree with this as well, although I traditionally wouldn't weigh in on how replacing out factors in.

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Oblivious???
4see: Help! Wagon on me
Ludi: Oblivious???

Agreed.

I don't get why ppl discourage the leading pressure wagon but

not pushing for any other wagon (Magister Ludi, slysly )

Be fair. ML is actively pushing for warrior. MoI is gunning for SB. spring for Junpei.

I'm not sure who's SlySly's horse is, but I also don't think he's actively attacking the FC wagon.

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... seriously actually place a case so that people will believe you i will say this once

to start a legitimate wagon place a convincing case that gets others to look at what they have done.

but no you have just said he is scum... sorry but i don't believe it.

I don't like this defense of nopoint out of the blue.

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To be fair, there are two interpretations of this post and both of them are correct depending on your viewing stragedy.

1) Oops. I made a mistake here. This player is protown and my reasoning was horribad to begin with.
2) Damn! People are riding me, must unvote.

I'm leaning towards #2 in the above situtation.

Well put. I definitely agree.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

: Could you prod whisper, please? Something might need to be done about that slot.

[RedCoyote]

diddin, what makes you say that?

[RedCoyote]

I don't like the defense that your given Fourseen. I see Fourseen as obvious lynch material, and yet you who I would say is a good mafia player would defend him. I don't see why you would do that, other then for credibility if Fourseen flips town.

I don't really get this sentence.

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RedCoyote: what would you say differentiates your play in this game so far from your play in the first cyclic experimentation (where you were scum)?

I'm glad you asked! You can tell I am town this game because I can guarantee you I will be more receptive to your/MoI's plans in this game. I have no need to cause chaos in that regard. If you remember in the previous game, I was beside myself trying to shoot that plan down, especially in regard to how it confirmed diddin. May I give you an example?

You've done good to sell everyone on the idea that theman's alignment will confirm you, but the town doesn't have the luxury to sit back and speculate on Day 3 ability swapping theories. We need to lynch scum. Period. I think there's a strong possibility that both you and theman are scum, regardless of ability swapping. I'm not about to start confirming people because we don't have any scumflips yet.

If you look there, that was kind of a serious part of my strategy during that game. I did not want you or MoI to dictate a bunch of confirmations through ability swapping. That is evidence of that.

In this game, I will do no such thing. I have no reason to. Ability swapping will help us net scum. Period. Paying close attention to it is a requirement as far as I'm concerned. If you see me ever working against this idea, by all means I want you (or anyone) to call me on it. I can say this with full confidence knowing that I will not work against it.

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So you’ve fired off a clearly incorrect attack. And one that was based completely on undermining the observer as opposed to refuting the observation. And when you realize this your response is ‘Hmmmmmm’ and then to do a sloppy ISO attack?

Yeah, I didn't get this either. He realized it wasn't the correct person, and then he tried to twist the attack around to make it fit SlySly. Really awkward.

Buddying up to DGB noted.

You better believe it. Just between you and me, I want to get on her good side.

Asking someone to clarify why they are pushing someone as scum isn’t a defense. It’s asking for clarification. A defense would have been along the lines of “Nopoint is Town you have no case and are scummy for pushing on Nopoint without one”.

You have to read between the lines. No one is going to be so blunt as to say, "Nopoint is town!!! WTF are you doing!"

That said, wazza's response was acceptable enough for me to back off for the time being.

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This post screams scum at me too, because DrippingGoofball, who replaced into crypto's spot, had already made TEN posts, including a complete town/scum list on every player in the game. It seems to me that he's just ignoring what DGB had done up to that point.

Do you think someone who skims is more likely to be scum than town then?

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WAIT, WAIT. Diddin in the first few pages of the entire game you had three "scum" and were "throwing out fos's like crazy" as well, but even if you weren't, why the hell is throwing out suspicion something

bad?

Explain to me your train of thought, Diddin. Don't quote what other people said, explain to me in your own words.

This is a good point.

[RedCoyote]

Good lynches in no particular order: Drunken Piper, Stringer Bell, Junpei, Toogeloo, ForseenCircumstance, wazzatron, diddin

Unvote

;

vote: diddin

Completely ducking most questions asked of him, seems much more reluctant to participate this game than he did last game, and I think matt caught him dead to rights on his hypocritical voting.

[RedCoyote]

Also, I'm not taking a strong stance on the stringer bell wagon.

You say that like you're proud of it. Why?

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Why these people: Drunken Piper, Wazzatron

Not a fan of the sonnet style posting, although, on a closer readthrough, it's not as bad as I initially thought. Is it just me or does it seem like he made a lot more posts than he has?

I'll give you that wazza, I'll retract that. I thought his vote was still on warrior, which kind of put me off to him. I didn't realize he had switched to SB.

As for you, I don't like your brazen defense of nopoint. Just because you responded well doesn't mean I automatically think you're town. I think you'd make a good lynch.

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So you list these as good lynches. We are close to deadline. You decide to bypass either top wagon (Stringer, Junpei) you listed as a good lynch and vote for the players with only 1 vote at that stage?

At that point, I counted 3 other people willing to join the diddin wagon (including me and Kdub already voting). If you have a different count, please say so.

That being said, I take no pleasure from sitting on a wagon all by my lonesome. I do not have the captial (nor the will really, diddin just pinged my gut more than the others on the list) to get this moving either.

In any case, I have no problem with any of the major vote getters here aside from nopoint.

Unvote

;

vote: Stringer Bell

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I always lurk day 1. Sorry.

I'm not ignoring the game, I'm just reading and taking it all in.

How about casting a vote? If you can't be bothered to play, at least get on the record.

[RedCoyote]

He voted twice and both time he jumped on the largest available wagon, with plenty of unrelated comment beside.

I don't know how much I can be held to task for this when it seems like a total of three people in this game are even willing to acknowledge my existence. This isn't a bid for attention mind you, but the fact of the matter is very few people are following up with me.

Additionally, I don't know how diddin would qualify as the "largest available wagon". You're going to have to run that one by me once more.

As for SB, nothing he has said has been able to justify his earlier reluctance to vote for fear of "quicklynching" in a 25-person game or his issue with revoting after making some noise about having an RVS vote too long. This is not my favorite candidate to be lynched today, but I think he's the best, most reasonable choice at the moment. I don't think the claim should make much of a difference. It's unfortunate he claimed to have an ability, but it would be worse to hastily force another candidate to claim and potentially reveal the location of an even better ability to the scum.

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KDub not having the balls to take his shot independently of public opinion is troubling for reasons already given. If KDub is that concerned about not offending people with his shot, then he should just shoot the player with the most votes.

[RedCoyote]

i want to see your answer

Sorry, I missed this.

The case is beside the point. I'm not speaking to the case's validity or supposed lack of validity, but the fact of the matter is DGB pretty clearly explained why she disliked nopoint (because his rhetoric was imprecise and garbled). Then you go a little crazy about how DGB is being irresponsible for not laying out a case against nopoint. Well, I disagree with that and I'm suspicious of the fact that you used that post to jump on her. It felt insincere. You continuing to beat the drum makes me feel like I've touched a bit of a nerve, so we'll see how it plays out.

[RedCoyote]

We have two lynches where the VC is clear. None of this "well... i'll settle..." business. Who is your favorite person to die?

FC, Toogeloo, or chkflip (diddin), but probably FC.

But I don't really have a say in what Kdub decides to do. I mean, if he wants my input, by all means let him use it, but it's ultimately his call and he needs to appreciate that.

You pick your battles, Junpei. Your candidate didn't win today (notwithstanding Kdub's decision). Hopefully you'll live to fight tomorrow and take whatever new information you have and process it all over again.

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@DrunkenPiper: The last game had a scumteam of six.

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should be focused on why his claim is likely false

Why would it be likely false? I think it's likely he

does

have that ability.

That has no bearing on his alignment.

Also, Kdub, I just realized there was a caveat on the Vig ability in the first game. Did you have to mention your power in the thread in order to use it?

Additionally, I'm not going to really jump down your throat for announcing other than to say I'm politically against that approach. I mean, you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube, so there's no sense to go on about it. I think you're townie enough that I don't think I'll have an issue with your shot.

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If Kdub shoots me, chances are he's scum with ML.

[RedCoyote]

Why did Fur even claim?

Unvote

;

vote: Furcolow

I guess he forgot our initial plan. EC, I'm with you. I have no idea why everyone feels the need to up and claim all of a sudden.

Kdub, you asked me earlier about the Hider ability. I just meant to say that it's just as likely for SB scum to have it as SB town would. One of the rules states that there are no inherent "scum" or "town" abilities.

[RedCoyote]

I don't understand how that's a slip. No, I don't know if scum knew of SB's power. If he's scum, I suspect they would already have known his power, but if he's town, then they wouldn't have. I'm saying that it's good policy to not have everyone claim on D1 and we should try to minimize that as much as possible. Do you have an issue with that?

[RedCoyote]

^ That's for Kdub. I should've quoted him.

[RedCoyote]

Votes influence other players, MoI. Surely you agree with that.

[RedCoyote]

FC, why did you switch from Fur to Ghostlin? If you think Fur's power is important for the town, why the change of heart?

[RedCoyote]

also let me sit still,
while someone explains to me the reason behind that vig kill?

(blech)

There's only one person to ask, friend.

[RedCoyote]

What was the purpose of this post? Please stop fluffing, and post more content. What is your opinion of the daykill?

I was just informing him that he needs to get on Kdub's case if he wants more information, not just "someone".

It was better than not having one at all. I wouldn't have handled it the same way, but that's a political thing and not really a suspicion thing.

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I switched from Furclow to Ghostlin becasue the case presented by MoI had the best content in it of any case so far. Furclow's ability seems pretty 3rd party, but that doesn't strictly mean a bad thing for the town. That's about all.

There's something about this that doesn't sit well with me. Do you trust MoI's case more than your own instincts?

---

Vote: Furcolow

Ghostlin seems very likely town, from even before his claiming shenanigans. I think he's catching a lot of flak because he's been unafraid to call a good number of people out. I see that happen a lot, some town players get nervous when other people start throwing around a lot of guilt without stick to one or two people. It also seems FC pulls another trick out of his hat, avoiding the daykill first off and now avoiding the lynch.

[RedCoyote]

whisper, you honestly think you'll be able to read over 1000 posts in an hour?

Will you please replace out? I'm asking nicely and sincerely with no pretense.

[RedCoyote]

And now that we're nearing deadline, it is with great pain that I must reveal myself to be the current holder of

DISCONNECT

.

Powers that target me tonight end up in the void.

You know, that would be a wonderful power for scum to have. They wouldn't have to worry about being investigated, shot, blocked, or anything like that!

It just so dang convenient that you have that. So I guess you just want everyone to stay away from you now, is that it? Don't even think about using an ability on you?

[RedCoyote]

It also gives the scum a golden opportunity to kill me, I cannot be doc-protected.

Oh, I'll bet.

I'm sure the scum will just be jumping at the chance to get rid of an ability like that. No, they definitely want that thing to suck in as many good abilities as possible.

---

My vote is going to be useless at this point, because both the leading wagons are bad, and I have no intention of voting for either of them.

So then you're advocating a no lynch?

[RedCoyote]

I quickly read the last 3 pages and comments made by both of them (while believing they are about to be lynched) give off strong town vibes. I'm also a firm believer that town is pretty much always mislynched on day 1. I would rather lynch someone very very town.

But that's just me.

You know, it would've been nice to have this political discussion, I don't know... 2 weeks ago.

Lynching a townie is bad, but it's unavoidable. To avoid it, especially in a game of this size, is so statistically improbable that you shouldn't reasonably count on that. To put it bluntly, we're not going to do a clean sweep of scum lynches.

With that said, the way to up the chances of the town winning this game is to force people to make serious decisions with their vote. When they don't vote, they cannot be read, regardless of their alignment. So, please, get your head out of the clouds, and pick the person you think that you're most likely mistaken about.

[RedCoyote]

RC, you either believe her or you don't. There's really not a third option to take here. Seriously.

I believe her; there's no sense faking it. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. What would best serve the interests of DGB and her alignment? Would it have been to claim as early as possible? At the end of the day when nothing can be done with it? Or to let it ride? That's why my posts sound so skeptical, not because I think she's lying.

[RedCoyote]

So, FC, you were just sitting there with no comment at all? I saw you were logged in for the past 10 minutes.

[RedCoyote]

Players strongly on the wagon as it grew and who get a ‘Get out of Jail free’ card from me today – Peregrine, EC, Fourseen,

Players who either abandoned Stringer or pushed NoPoint / Junpei when things were tight (and thus are Temiati suspects) – RedCoyote, SlySly, Spring, diddin, Ghostlin, MagisterLudi, Toog, Implosion

Nah, way too arbitrary. All three players on the top part jumped off and on the wagon. You're singling out a specific time for no particular reason except to satisfy a confirmation bias.

---

Toog, that was the most blatantly stupid thing I've seen in while. Whisper has not even POSTED yet today. Bah.

Not the brightest move I've ever seen, but it sure was ballsy. Ballsy enough to convince me that his intentions are not jaded.

Toogeloo is now a stable townread of mine, although I agree that it would've been nice to hear something more from whisper.

---

Players that caused Furc's lynch to succeed are where suspicions should start.

I'm not so sure about that. It was Ghostlin vs Furcolow for a majority of the day, not SB versus Furcolow. Everyone was tripping over themselves to abandon the SB wagon after he claimed.

---

I did not pass an ability.

Vote: ForeseenCircumstances

[RedCoyote]

Neither Junpei nor RedCoyote ever give a solid reason for voting me.

I have called you out here and here, but your insincere push of Ghostlin is putting me over the top.

FC plays both sides

I think Whispersilk is A good vig target, as well as Furclow for his suspicious 6 person scum team comment, his random claim, and the fact that his claim is a bit too mysterious to be 100% truthful.

vote: Furclow

hmm between furclow and his premature claim and the case that MoI presented on ghostlin I am leaning towards the case on ghostlin just because furclow's ability is helpful for the town at this point.

vote:ghastlin

I see no reason for this. Your only excuse is that MoI's case sounded better, and I don't buy that because I think you're drifting in the wind like a scummy scum and taking the path of least resistance in all your moves.

---

RedCoyote, something as wifomy as a quickshot is enough to give you a solid town read?

I mean what I say.

---

There's a few things that are nagging me here, acutally. You see, I never voted for Stringer and rode Junpei erratically the beginning of the day and Furc throught the end of the day. Also, DGB, who is now

dead

would fit on his Temiati list. Also the person that advocated we jump off the Stringer list was MoI, and MoI's biggest...I'm going to use opposition here as the word is now dead. Also, Magna's the one who advocated we jump off the Stringer lynch in the first place.

If I didn't believe Mafia could have an orgy of evidence, I'd be voting MoI right now. I'm acutally going to do something smart here and wait for more information on the pass/did not pass lists to finish.

Yeah, this is more well put together than I could've come up with. The biggest odd note in the post is definitely the fact that using abandoning the SB wagon as potential evidence of scumminess puts targets on MoI. He leaves himself off the list, but those who he puts on there are people he thought were scum before the day was over anyways. It's very dishonest.

---

VOTE: VOTE: Toogeloo

Funny joke vote, chk. Where's the real one?

[RedCoyote]

Junpei, I think you make a good point that implosion is suspiciously quiet for both what one would expect of him and for the legwork he put into this game earlier. I'd also like him to answer for that, and I think your vote is a fair one.

[RedCoyote]

I do confirm your analysis.

But, like I said, Toogeloo's most recent move is not what I'd expect of him as scum. I'm so moved by it that I'm willing to bet on that intuition at this point. I understand the risks of doing so, but with experience in this game comes certain gambles you're more or less willing to take. I hope it doesn't end up biting me in the end, but I feel confident enough that I'm willing to accept the risk. I don't know how well I could argue my case for it given the divisive nature of the action other than to give you the WIFOM you are already clearly aware of.

Drink it or don't.

[RedCoyote]

I ask because you haven't been articulate in this category and your reads seem to be subject to 180 based on the smallest of details.

If shooting a player before they have a chance to speak is "the smallest of details", then you're even more laid back in playing this game than I am!

Other suspects I have include implosion for the reasons you outlined, chkflip for earlier issues I had with diddin, Sinestro for lurkerscum, and wazza for being touchy and defensive at awkward times. I can't tell if I want to see MoI as scum because of his tactics or not, and I don't feel comfortable pursuing him until/unless I feel it in my heart. That's kind of a lame answer, but it's an honest one. For now I have more solid suspects to work with.

[RedCoyote]

Sorry I've been slacking

Make it up right now, friend. Let's get some analysis from the desk of warriormode.

[RedCoyote]

I knew it was a joke.

[RedCoyote]

Hey, RC: What do you think about Junpei's assertion that FC isn't likely and the fact that MoI gave him a pass today?

I think it smacks of either insincerity, as you described it, or pride. Junpei strikes me as someone that might be embarrassed at looking like he's backtracking, so he'd prefer to dig the hole deeper. By that I just mean that there's no logical reason why he isn't pushing FC right now after what he's already on record of saying about him; he just doesn't want to admit to that. I think his story about how he doesn't think FC will be lynch and his crocodile tears over the whole thing is completely bunk.

That said, I am troubled over the fact that he may just be playing stubborn, so I don't particularly want to vote him at this point. I certainly would not go out of my way to stop Junpei from being lynched today though.

---

I'm not going to tunnelvision one person today. My earlier proclamation was rash.

To some degree I can appreciate that. But I don't get why you're spitting on a somewhat more significant groundswell of support than you had at the end of the previous day. It looks like you don't care I guess is what I'm saying.

---

By the way, this unvote came when Ghostlin was at L-1 and we were less than a day from the deadline.

That's very interesting.

---

My summaries presented here is based on significantly more than that.

Well, you certainly didn't share it with us. I guess it was all just one big coincidence that your scum and town reads just happened to sync up perfectly with the analysis, right?

Junpei’s already covered this but I find it fascinating that you give a ‘Town’ read to player with Toog’s Day 1 play, who redirected a power to himself, and who shot Town (not good Town clearly, but not scum).

Why not? Take the flipside of the argument. If you, as town, have the power to keep a Vig power out of scum hands, do you take it?

you have a solid Town read on obv-scum Ghost, right? I want you to firmly commit to a position.

I have a town read on Ghostlin. Period. It's not a "solid" read, and he certainly isn't "obv-scum". I mean, I guess he's as obvious scum as DGB was, right?

You and that hyperbole can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. You're not going to intimidate me with your stubborn impetuousness.

I mean, everything else aside, you do realize that statistically it's more probable for Furc and Ghostlin to both be town than it is for one of them to be scum?

Also – I love that you would expect anyone to consider themselves a suspect, Town or scum.

I'm not the one who put myself in the position to even have this said about them. You did.

You sit here and say, "everyone who did X is more likely to be scum" when you know damn well that you did X without so much as a mention as to why your case is exceptional. Then you come crying when I call you out for it? It's dishonest and you were caught on it. Deal with it.

In an epic display of rashness tries to use the ‘jump of Stringer’ attack twice in the same post!

You were never going to bring it up.

Actually, RedCoyote’s little ‘Funny vote chkflip, where is your real one’ is absolutely a defense of you.

Actually, forcing chkflip to defend his vote is absolutely a move I'd make any day of the week.

Seriously – I was fucking right about Stringer and I’m going to find the partners who made the lynch difficult.

What are you talking about? You made the lynch difficult, MoI.

1. Do you think Stringer partner scum are likely to be found pushing counterwagons at critical moments when Stringer was under fire but not the clear leader?

I think this is a fair argument, I should say. I have no qualms with this argument. I just have issues with your definitions of "critical moments". Everything else aside, your issues with Ghostlin & implosion, Toogeloo case, DGB issues... your placement of "critical moments" is completely bias. That's the biggest issue I have with you right now. And for me just to question that gets you off on this rampage that everyone is out to get you.

I mean, most of the people in this game are not sold on the idea that you're scum. You need to take a chill pill for a second and talk with players that you think are more likely to be town than not (even if that's not necessarily me) instead of lecturing everyone about your supposed skills.

---

I agree with you on moi, hes pretentious and i generally don't like playing with him, but honestly i dont think hes scum in this game, its just moi being moi. Care to explain what makes him scum rather than just a dick?

And I think that's where most of the game is at. Even implosion. I can't speak for him, but I bet if you put a gun to his head and made him choose, he'd say MoI is town.

It's just like pulling teeth to get an actual discussion going rather than this "if you're not with me you're against me" nonsense.

---

He didn't review the actual timing of events when summarizing his analysis, he was either gut shotting or scummily creating a heading and throwing some names under it.

This.

---

In the first post, he calls my play "troubling". The clear implication is that I'm suspicious for not wanting to take responsibility for killing someone. Then he backs off and says he's just against the approach (why would it be "troubling" then?) but thinks I am town (he hasn't indicated this prior to this post).

I'm sorry for offending your delicate sensibilities, but this is all semantics. I was clarifying that my issue with you was not alignment-based; it was policy-based. I don't see the issue here.

He appeared to misunderstand exactly what the slip was several times, even though I didn't think my explanation was that vague. When I finally lay it out in 855, he doesn't respond.

Goodness gracious. It's not vague, I just have nothing else to say on the matter. Whether or not the scum would've known is obvious. How else am I supposed to "respond" to it? Are you going to hit me every time I don't include you in a quote wall until I pat you on the head for a good catch and vote myself? There's nothing left to say on the matter. Feel free to keep peddling it on your soapbox, but don't attack me for "not responding".

I should note that he also did not respond to Magna's attack on him in 857 regarding his vote on SB. This was around the time nopoint died, so people were more focused on getting a lynch together, but it's interesting that RC never bothered to respond to these.

If I thought it was important, I would've responded to it. If you think it's important enough to rehash, let's hear it.

Ghostlin wasn't a serious suspect until the last few days. Trying to downplay the significance of the Furc wagon that you were a part of?

That's a fair argument. I should've been more clear. I meant the material parts of the day. After nopoint's death when the votes were reset.

[RedCoyote]

EC hasn't posted in over six days! What is the meaning of this, EC?

[RedCoyote]

I really don't think you would have used the word "troubling".

Okay. That's not correct, but okay.

Just making sure I respond to this in case you come back at me with a charge that I am ignoring you.

You're supposed to respond to it by trying to explain why it wasn't a slip.

It wasn't. It wasn't because if SB was scum then they would've known his power.

Well, OK, you

can

, but don't complain when people call you scummy.

I'm not complaining. You can think what you want. I try not to complain unless I feel like someone isn't putting an effort in (e.g. whisper).

Why was the rest of the day immaterial? A lot of stuff happened before nopoint's death in terms of wagons, cases, etc.

Yup, and it amounted to zilch. Sure, a wagon on a scum member is noteworthy, but in the end I'll play with the votes that actually ended up leading to a lynch. The scum can too easily put their collective fingers on the scale prior to SB's claim because WIFOM says his claim will end up saving him in the end.

---

Toog said absolutely nothing about Whisper lurking and just piggy-backed off DGB.

I think his unpredictability frightens you. I don't blame you, because it scares me too. I'll tell you what I told Junpei. You either buy it or you don't. There's only so much debating you can do on an issue like this. Toogeloo took a crazy shot. Would he do that as scum or as town (or something else)?

Yup, just like Furc was scum right Oh look, you were wrong als

The difference is I'm not parading around as though I'm flawless. The same cannot be said about you.

Without looking at game-play that’s a valid statement. But of course we have all Day 1 to look at Ghostlin’s scummy play. I understand you disagree.

My point is, in the end, you cannot say Ghostlin is obvious scum because Furcolow is town, which is what you've been driving at since the day started.

Scum has absolutely no reason to stick their necks out if either result is a plus for them. Do you think everyone who shifted votes late is Town then? Who are scum on those wagon?

Who said scum stuck their necks out? Only you have reads that are set in stone. I'd like to think most of the other players have more of an open mind.

Jumping off Stringer post-claim? If so your assertion here is incorrect. I didn’t attack anyone for jumping off Stringer after he claimed Hider. Not lynching or vigging him afte that claim was Pro-Town. Just those who jumped off BEFORE the claim when things were tight.

Here we go. Right here. This is the meat of the issue. Everything else we're talking about is peanuts compared to this point right here.

How do you define tight? I see EC jump off of SB at VC7 and not get back on until VC14. FC didn't get on SB until VC15. But these are both exceptions to your rule? And it just so happens that you saw them both as town before all this anyways, right?

Nope. Not in the least. Why say things that are clearly not accurate?

You abandoned the wagon due to the claim. How is that not making things difficult? You just said it yourself:

I said he shouldn’t be lynched because his claimed power was too important for Town to lose due to lynch.

There you go. That's exactly what I mean.

---

I can't decide if we should policy lynch this (not a bad option considering you haven't been playing that strong really), or just keep you around because no scum would want to draw attention to themselves by being so stupid. I'll meditate on it.

fuck, I missed getting my night choice in to pass.....asking mod what happened to it cause I dont have it.

The scum team basically did this during the last game, only ckd said he forgot to pass the ability instead of outright admitting to not pass it (which is of course what we did to help befuddle the town's plans).

Now that's a noodle scratcher. Would the scum be ballsy enough to attempt a very similar trick that the scum team did during the last game? Do you think they even knew about it?

I think it's worth the risk. I have no major feelings toward Pere either way. This just absolutely floors me.

Unvote

;

Vote: PeregrineV

Good lord. Its not just about your ability, (which is useful), is the fact that passing abilities is pro-town, as it establishes connections. Do you really not think of any of this?

This.

Pere is in a lose/lose situation. Either he delibrately went against the town's plans from the start, which is anti-town, or he was ignorant of them, which doesn't make sense because he was "smart" enough to come up with a plan to delibrately kill off his own ability.

In other words, he was either going against our plan, or he ignored our plan but had the audacity to come up with one on his own (which doesn't make sense to me).

Even if I think he's being honest about this whole thing, why not discuss it during D1? Hell, we had something like 6 claims yesterday. Even if he passed it off as theoretical yesterday I might have been able to cut him some slack. But I just can't buy this as it stands.

[RedCoyote]

I'm sure the claim strategies are fine. I'm also sure the mod won't allow the game to be broken by it, so while planning is good, I'm only for it as long as it helps town. If it ceases to help, or helps scum more, then we need to be adaptable to changing the strategy.

Hm, I'm surprised I missed this during the first go around.

This is very fencesitting-ish.

Basically he says he agrees but he's going to change the strategy whenever he feels like it without any discussion whatsoever.

[RedCoyote]

Junpei, what about the fact that the scum team did pretty much the same thing last game?

[RedCoyote]

You realize that most of the abilities will pass through the hands of a scum member in one way or another, right? I mean, that's unavoidable.

I just think you're bsing us. I think you're trying to play a cutesy act like you were really looking out for us, but in reality this scheme was cooked up in a QT.

I'm not going to sit here and say, "Wow, you are either a dumbass town or scum!!", I'm just saying I don't believe you and I don't think you would've done that as town.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but do you really think it's negligible?

[RedCoyote]

So now there is no argument from you about how useless for town the ability is, because they all pass through scum hands?

I never "focused on the ability". It could be dropping a banana peel for all I care. Any ability can be helpful to the scum. Even a Cop is helpful to the scum in this game because that's one more day that the town doesn't get to investigate (and, further, could lead to gambit potential, but that's another topic altogether). Let me share something with you, Pere.

A bizarre experiment in Chamber c9098 has successfully created a method of cycling that allows any anti-town factions existing within the game to pass abilities to subjects within their team. But this power is not without its consequences. If an anti-town factional member chooses to cycle an ability to one of their partners, it will cause them to be poisoned, and die the following night.

Everyone needs to tattoo the above paragraph on the back of their eyelids. This is so very, very important to remember, especially later in the game. I might go so far as to post this after every new game day starts just as a reminder to everyone.

Abilites that are tracked properly will take us far in this game. This strategy absolutely decimated the scumteam during the last game. I should know, I was, arguably, the one who tried my hardest to make sure the town didn't follow the strategy during the last game. This was talked about in great length at the beginning of

this

game. You yourself acknowledged the discussion (although, funny, now that I look back on it you're on record admitting to give yourself a pass anytime you like from assisting the town with it).

So, no, there is no argument about how useless/not useless the ability is. I never suggested it was either and I have no intentions on doing so in the future because that's not what I'm concerned about.

Forgot to accuse me of making the whole thing up, because he knows I'm not. Check.

I have no intention of accusing you of "making the whole thing up". You probably did have an ability. You probably did not pass it.

I do have an intention of accusing you of lying about the rationale behind not passing it. It wasn't to help the town, as you claim, but to prevent the town from tracking

where

you passed the ability. The scum know that, especially in the early game, it's not worth the risk of passing it to a fellow scum member. If they do, then one of them is dying. If they pass it to a townie, then it helps the town gain that much more valuable information. So, what's the solution? Come up with a plan to get rid of the ability. The problem is the scum team (which I was apart of) went through those same motions during the last game. It was a different situation, but the intention was exactly the same.

And you seem more upset that I scrapped it than would be normal. And you never mentioned who was town enough to pass it onto.

Well, it isn't my responsibility to give you your townreads, and it certainly isn't my fault that you haven't been able to secure any for your own yet. You could always ask if you need advice. You certainly could have passed it to me for a guaranteed town pass, but also MoI, Ghost, Bunny, Toog, and DGB would've been passes I would've considered at the time in question.

Additionally, I love how you cannot retort to my statement that most every ability will eventually end up in scum hands (which is a good thing, btw, because it will help us track this game), so, instead, you just try and besmirch my intentions.

---

It looked like Red was voting for Per like he KNEW that Per was town or that he was voting Per because he did something that was bad, but not specifically coming from scum. I read that post and it feels like he's trying to convince himself that Pergin is scum as it progresses. It feels like he's advocating a policy lynch instead of advocating a scum lynch, which feels like scum play.

This is a poor vote. Not because it's on me, but because it gives us nothing about matt's mindset. I've outlined very clearly why I think this is a scum move, not a poor political calculation (although it's definitely that if he is town). If what I've written above doesn't explain it, then I just don't know how much more clear I could be. I don't think you're being fair to characterize my motivations as insincere, certainly not with the pathetic amount of content you've given us in this post.

Does what Pere did make you think he is town or scum?

Think about the situation again and get back with me.

Somebody doing something that appears to be anti-town doesn't mean that they're mafia.

It doesn't mean that we should give them the benefit of the doubt either, matt.

I never understand the attitude of lynching people who do dumb things and opposed to people who do really, really scummy things.

Explain to me why it's not scummy to kill off an ability in this specific game. Explain why, when we can track abilities and use them to effectively catch scum like the town did in the last CES, it's not scummy to throw abilities away?

---

Why do I feel like I keep seeing the same cyclical conversation amongst the same people?

I don't understand the hesitation here. You people understand that this is the sequel to another game, yes? And, Toog, you understand that, in the original game, the town was able to use a strategy to effectively cut the scum off at the knees, yes?

Okay. Well, I'm telling you that there's someone purposefully working to prevent that strategy from taking place. What do you think about that?

---

What do you think about the way the Ghostlin wagon shifted onto Furc at the end of the day if that was the significant part to you? Do you agree that scum had reason to want Furc to be lynched instead of Ghostlin yesterday?

No, I don't. I have no reason to think Ghost is scum.

That said, if Ghost is scum, I'll concede that those that shifted need heavy scrutiny without a doubt.

although I'm not so sure scum-Peregrine would have volunteered the information in that case.

Because it's WIFOM, Kdub.

[RedCoyote]

I guess I just see it as more than a policy lynch because I have actual experience with scum literally using the same tactic for this specific game in order to hurt the town's strategy. So, I mean, I don't know what I'd call it. I can't quite translate my experience in the way I'd like to, but I feel strongly about this.

I'm going to be out of town this weekend. I'll respond to MoI and spring at a later date.

[RedCoyote]

Oh, nothing in particular... just a feeling I had :3

[RedCoyote]

Never said I was flawless. That’s a bullshit cop out statement. There’s a difference between saying I was correct on multiple reads and saying I’m not wrong on anything and for you to try to assert there isn’t is crap.

You've been walking around this game as though your shit doesn't stink. I mean, I could care less. I know how to overlook attitudes for the most part. But please don't sit here and act like you have no idea what I'm talking about. It's insulting.

you are trying to straw-man it by saying it is solely based on the Furc / Ghostlin deadline action.

That's your main argument and you know it. Do you want me to quote your whining about the damn Furc lynch over

several

posts? Because I'll do it if that's what it takes for you to drop this point.

WHO IS SCUM ON THE END OF DAY FURC & GHOSTLIN WAGONS AND WHY?

There should be multiple names on this list.

I've given my scumreads.

Pere is a good bet at scum. wazza is another safe bet. I also called Sinestro and am prepared to follow through on that.

EC re-votes for Stringer and raised Stringer scum above Junpei and NoPoint (who we know is Town) and also above the fading Fourseen wagon. If he was a likely Stringer partner there is little reason for him to help push his partner. He could have found a reason to vote for either Junpei or NoPoint. So yes, his play in time with the wagons is pretty strong evidence they aren’t partners.

Fourseen votes for Stringer and again helps keep Stinger as the top wagon. Again .. no reason for Stringer partner to make that move.

This is exactly what I mean by tight – multiple competing wagons that were very close (within 2 votes each other). Do you want to say my reasoning here is incorrect? Meanwhile you abandoned the lead wagon on scum (Stringer) by the next vote count to reduce the distance between Stringer and the competing wagons. That I see as scum motivation.

I see your angle, but I also see the WIFOM. Why not try to make it look like you want SB dead if you know that SB is just going to end up claiming Hider? I mean, riddle me that, MoI.

1. Is that postion scummy?
2. Does that position remove my suspicions about Stringer?
3. Does that position mean my scum-hunting to get him to the point where he was a viable lynch less credible to you?

1. Nope.
2. Nope.
3. Yup.

I cannot give you the benefit of the doubt, especially with the great lengths you've went to to try and give yourself credit for SB's flip when you were the first man to abandon ship. I see your argument, but why is it not in your best interest to act as though you were the only one who saw SB as scummy? Especially as scum, there's plenty reason for you to toot your own horn. Hell, I suspect the scum team did not see that death coming. It's a win/win situation for you. Had SB not died, you could've went back on your crusade the next day. Yeah, it sucks for the scum that he died, but that puts you in great position to claim that you were the sole person cheering on his lynch when clearly that was not the case for a large part of the day.

---

FC because you just can't tell with derp players

Please. Can we get off this "if they are too VI then you can't seriously vote them" bs, please? I'm so sick of hearing it. If you're prepared to lynch me over then then just do it. I've heard this lame argument in just about every damn town game I've ever played. It's just an excuse to pick on someone. "Players who aren't good enough to be scum". Come off it, spring.

There is also something you said about implosion not thinking that MoI is scum if asked at gunpoint, this struck me as very bizarre. What do you mean by that. I'd also like to know what you think of FC in relation to SB.

I just meant that I didn't think implosion was prepared to ride his vote all the way to the end. I think he was just acting out more than anything. Of course I prefaced that comment by saying that I wasn't prepared to speak for him though.

I think FC was laying the groundwork for some simple bussing, nothing more. I see him as scum for his moves outside of his SB vote.

---

Unvote

;

vote: Sinestro

[RedCoyote]

I like Sly's point. Sinestro could never actually "be on our side" at any point in this game. So Sinestro is caught flat out lying there.

That said, I think his claim is believable. If we decide to use him for our benefit, we have to be very mindful of the number count. We don't want it to ever get to a point where Sinestro would have the opportunity to flip allegiances for an assured win with the scumteam if the numbers get too thin.

[RedCoyote]

I'm happy to lynch Sinestro. That doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm voting him for a reason, and we've already got a day kill anyways.

I'm simply stating that if we were to keep him around then we're going to have to be that much more careful of some sort of pact that could be made between him and the scum. If the SK were to get a neighborizer ability for one example. It's not impossible.

[RedCoyote]

Mod

: I changed my vote to Sinestro.

[RedCoyote]

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Stringer Bell is so misunderstood. Poor guy. lulz. I think he's town if only for his posting as of this point. Same with warriormode. The latter is strongly due to meta (albeit only one game's worth), but I don't see the scum-motivation in either of their posts as other people are obviously biting right on to. Both wagons seem scum-pushed. (SB's wagon hasn't started yet, mind you, but it's a gut feeling at this point)
...

Yeah, don't like that last line.

Very, very good catch, IAI. Please don't let us forget about this one. chkflip is definitely not getting the sort of attention he deserves due to all the distractions taking place around us.

I still have a few things I want to respond to, but I thought this was important enough to justify a separate post.

[RedCoyote]

Every single on of which happened before NoPoint was even shot. Why make a point that is clearly not correct? Do you think using loaded language (whining) and threatening me was going to make me cower and forget my scum-hunting Day 1?

Why are you delibrately being stubborn? I'm talking about the Furcolow lynch, not the nopoint lynch. Posts 1150, 1200, and 1284 were full of your whining about how Furcolow was so obvious town and that makes Ghostlin scum. Whatever you said prior to D2 is redudant because that was before the flip.

Great. Please point out where you’ve done anything that actually supports those reads today?

[...]

What about Wazz or Pere from Day 1 gave you these scum-reads?

This is based on my reading of the game. I've voted Pere and explained why. I've argued with wazza late yesterday. I called Sinestro out as a lurkerscum.

Pere didn't really do anything D1 to catch my suspicions, his move is what sealed it. In retrospect I don't like the way he handled our discussion on strategy at the beginning of the game. With wazza it was his over-defensive posting. Here is that.

Why don’t you make a clear and convincing case on him then?

Post 1171.

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I think it is very likely that scum have daytalk, and that MoI is mafia with Stringer, and stringer was a planned bus-to-claim-hider.

Yeah, I think that's a real possibility as well.

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That's all I really wanted to respond to. Thanks for replacing in, pops (and all our other replacements for that matter). I hope everyone wonderful Thanksgiving.

[RedCoyote]

Post Count : Player
16: bunnylover
18: etheralcookie
21: warriormode
27: springlullaby
33: sinestro
36: diddin/chkflip 8/28
36: fourseencircumstance
37: projectmatt

I wanted to respond to this as well. Of this group, I think FC, chkflip, and possibly warrior are our best shots at nabbing scum. That said, I wouldn't be sad to lose any of these people except possibly EC. I would like to read more of what EC's replacement has for us because I'm not convinced he was avoiding giving content.