Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]


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Post Post #56 (isolation #0) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:03 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 53, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
@Magister:
Is that a post restriction?
This isn't a Katsuki game, so I hope not.

I'm not big in the RVS/RQS stage of the game either. I tend to be more background Day 1 if I can, beginning my way of play of the game, though I do have a trait that will make me more vocal. I tend to be a very strong reader of motivation. I can often tell whether someone is bread crumbing power, or whether there is a town or scum motivated focus behind their posts. I tend to attack people who aren't getting the attention they deserve or defend players who look like easy scum mislynches if I trust myself on that front. My reads are generally pretty good, though I can be bamboozled from time to time.

I also typically give off a scummy vibe in my posts according to a lot of people I play with, apparently something about the way I talk. This is part of my real life personality probably because I don't typically think about feelings before I say something. I speak off the cuff. I don't build a case (right away), I give gut reactions to pretty much everything, sometimes without thinking it through. But this goes hand in hand with me being a good read of motivation.


Nothing really else to add. Discussion for the most part hasn't devolved from setup discussion and personality discussion. The votes out there are still more or less random, and not much discussion to promote moving out of the RVS yet.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #1) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:09 am

Post by Toogeloo »

I should also state that I am a bit of a loose canon in games of organization. I like to do my own thing, and find that a little chaos tends to monkey wrench (and make more interesting) the game a bit. The main reason for this is that scum are already informed, so I don't like to aid that in any way. Sometimes it's fruitless, but other times it has worked to my advantage.
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Post Post #63 (isolation #2) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:20 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 61, crypto wrote:for a loose cannon you are awfully conservative with your vote

Wrong type of loose canon. I don't just vote to vote, but I will withhold information, or manipulate, when information is trying to be organized. Check out my wiki on DEFCON 3.0 and Metropolis to see examples.
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Post Post #65 (isolation #3) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:24 am

Post by Toogeloo »

I don't think about it if the little red squiggly doesn't show up underneath it.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #4) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:37 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 71, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Indulge me here Toog - the only times I recall you getting significant pressure and getting lynched Day 1 you were scum. Do you have any Town games where that happened?

DEFCON 2 Me v. Scum Fate, Fate won that battle.

Here is a list of every game that I have been called scum in and lynched (or endgamed) at some point, though I was town:
Earth's Struggle
DEFCON 2
Reck's World of Warcraft
Bloodbath in Camden


I play most my games offsite though, so a good majority of my meta is found elsewhere. Not entirely sure why you care about this though, you know my meta, you've played with me enough.

In post 71, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I'd like you to specifically state whether you object to the claim passing or actively try to undermine it (by not being forthcoming or truthful) to make things "more interesting" as you put it.
I haven't yet determined if I find the system advantageous to town or not.
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Post Post #80 (isolation #5) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:48 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 74, PeregrineV wrote:I like the RVS or RQS or whatever stage. It's about the only post in the whole game where you have fun for fun's sake. After that, it's about winning.

There is usually nothing random about the RVS/RQS. The game is always about winning.
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Post Post #85 (isolation #6) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:00 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 81, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Saying your playstyle generates scum-reads as you did is Anti-Town. If you are Town you've only given scum an open invitation to attack you by self-admitting you are naturally "scummy". If you are scum it's a pre-emptive measure to say "I'm not scummy, it%u2019s my playstyle%u201D which is a complete cop-out. Neither serves Town%u2019s interests.
I was giving my personality traits as asked. Take it however you want.
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Post Post #87 (isolation #7) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:01 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 82, crypto wrote:
toogeloo wrote:blah

i wish you would vote

or state some reads

or something

I'll get on this eventually.
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Post Post #88 (isolation #8) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:04 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Would you count Mass Effect Mafia, MoI? You thought I was scum Day 1 there, I lived through the Day and you tried to swap me with you you hoping I would eat the bullet... which ended quite humorously if I recall correctly.
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Post Post #90 (isolation #9) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:13 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 89, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Given I didn%u2019t play in Mass Effect Mafia I%u2019m not sure what you are getting at here. Please explain.

"whoops" ... had you confused with someone else lol.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #10) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:16 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Mass Effect Mafia.... Spyrex thought I was scum Day 1, and he was Jack with a Bus, Vig shot, and some other junk. My first post I stated I wanted the Governror lynched because I didn't want scum to have the role, I got a lot of flak for it. Spyrex made the case that I was scum, but someone else was lynched. That night, Spyrex bussed me and him, thinking that he was going to get shot and was hoping I would take the bullet. Instead, I got shot, and Spyrex ate the bullet.
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Post Post #103 (isolation #11) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:02 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 102, Sinestro wrote:toogeloo are you scum? y/n?

yes.

... I mean no.

wait...

Is this a trick question?
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Post Post #106 (isolation #12) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:05 am

Post by Toogeloo »

@Sinestro:

What is your name?
What is your Quest?
What is your favorite color?
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Post Post #108 (isolation #13) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:07 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 105, crypto wrote:toogeloo, you responded to that post within a minute of its submission. it's as though you are sitting here observing the thread without taking initiative.

._.

How very astute of you.

In post 107, Sinestro wrote:eh if you were to place your vote right now, who would it be on? (assuming it was a hammer vote ?) @toog but other can reply if they REALLY want

i appreciate toog staring at the thread, it makes him a GOOD panda, MAYBE?

Probably PV. A little too much desire to defend the RVS stage.
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Post Post #113 (isolation #14) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:36 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 56, Toogeloo wrote:I tend to be more background Day 1 if I can, beginning my way of play of the game
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Post Post #114 (isolation #15) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:37 am

Post by Toogeloo »

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.
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Post Post #117 (isolation #16) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:49 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Figured people would want to know.
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Post Post #120 (isolation #17) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:07 am

Post by Toogeloo »

nah.
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Post Post #126 (isolation #18) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:44 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Why is everyone so interested in me putting a vote on someone?
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Post Post #127 (isolation #19) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:47 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 125, Stringer Bell wrote:I think we need Toog to elaborate more on the ability and just how anti-town it is.

Coming from Multiple Personality Mafia... pretty much every role can also be pro-town if used by someone with the right intentions. Sending an ability to the Void also means preventing town from having it as well, which... you never know what could happen.
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Post Post #130 (isolation #20) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:52 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Fine

Vote: Toogeloo


But just until next vote count (or I see something better).
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Post Post #134 (isolation #21) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:06 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Unvote
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Post Post #218 (isolation #22) » Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:59 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Crypto is town. Do not like the people wanting some form of justification for coming back to him later. The one that sticks out the most to me is Bunnylover, and I believe she is Scum.

Fourseen is... probably town. This wagon started out of apparently Fourseen's standard M.O. of stupidity or something. I have no experience with the guy, but a lot of people seem to want him dead for dead's sake, and not because he voted Crypto over Diddin (and then promptly unvoted). I cannot see scum being THAT bad, and this seems more VI stuff to me.

There is a good case on Warrior. He is a much more worthwhile Day 1 lynch than Crypto or Fourseen are. Fourseen's lynch isn't viable for information as it comes off more policy lynch-ish and people just want to get rid of him. Warrior has actually tried to get his hands dirty, and failed.

Vote: Warrior
FOS: Bunnylover
(would be a second vote if I had one)
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Post Post #305 (isolation #23) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:34 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 299, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Note that in all the explosion of play that Toogelo has faded into the background. He continues to provide no reads or positive input.

In post 56, Toogeloo wrote:I tend to be more background Day 1 if I can
I am living up to my personality then. Day 1 is my day to get the most motivational reads. I am not an aggressive player.

Also, I have already given two town reads and a scum read (plus I have a few more I am keeping an eye on).
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Post Post #311 (isolation #24) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:36 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 306, MagnaofIllusion wrote:You are not a unique and special Snowflake.

Nope... I am a beautiful butterfly though.
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Post Post #314 (isolation #25) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:36 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 313, RedCoyote wrote:Why did you drop your discussion over your power? Why bring it up if you're not going to use it (as a discussion piece)?

It accomplished what I needed to do already.
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Post Post #332 (isolation #26) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm going out on a limb and stating crypto/DGB almost 100% confirmed town at this point. That old wagon might be a good place to get some dirt.
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Post Post #335 (isolation #27) » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:01 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.
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Post Post #340 (isolation #28) » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:40 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 337, Junpei wrote:
In post 335, Toogeloo wrote:The manner in which crypto exited the game suggests as such.


So you're practically clearing the slot as town because of something which is pure WIFOM?

I am. Doesn't mean you have to accept it.
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Post Post #408 (isolation #29) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:25 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 205, Bunnylover wrote:I am still in favor of Crypto been lynched, but I think FourseenCircumstance is a much more obvious choice.

In post 273, Bunnylover wrote:@ML: Sorry, but I disagree with you.I agree with Junpei that your taking things out of proportion.
In post 401, Bunnylover wrote:
Unvote, Vote: ML

I'm a little more confidence that Fourseen will flip town.

There do not seem like a town's thought process. Each of these statements reek to me.

Unvote;
Vote: Bunnylover
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Post Post #410 (isolation #30) » Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:34 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 408, Toogeloo wrote:
In post 205, Bunnylover wrote:I am still in favor of Crypto been lynched, but I think FourseenCircumstance is a much more obvious choice.

In post 273, Bunnylover wrote:@ML: Sorry, but I disagree with you.I agree with Junpei that your taking things out of proportion.
In post 401, Bunnylover wrote:
Unvote, Vote: ML

I'm a little more confidence that Fourseen will flip town.

There do not seem like a town's thought process. Each of these statements reek to me.

Unvote;
Vote: Bunnylover

To further elaborate:

In post 205, Bunnylover wrote:I am still in favor of Crypto been lynched, but I think FourseenCircumstance is a much more obvious choice.
This sounds like Bunny is attempting to leave her options open in case momentum shifts back on to Crypto, which at the time of the post both 4seen and crypto are getting a lot of heat. There is too much justification for the vote switch, and comes off scummily.

In post 273, Bunnylover wrote:@ML: Sorry, but I disagree with you.I agree with Junpei that your taking things out of proportion.
Appealing to another player's read to justify disagreement. Bunny is attempting to back up possible support against ML and possibly playing town against town. If Bunny is scum, Junpei and ML are both town.

In post 401, Bunnylover wrote:
Unvote, Vote: ML

I'm a little more confidence that Fourseen will flip town.
Fourseen is getting a lot of backing as a bad lynch, and so Bunny attempts to jump ship here and go with her previously set up attack on ML, which at the moment seems like a park vote due to it being the only vote on ML and almost no case provided by Bunny for the vote other than, "He's WKing 4seen too much."
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Post Post #505 (isolation #31) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:45 am

Post by Toogeloo »

warriormode, nopoint, slysly, and Magna.

I'm not DGB, but my opinion on most these slots isn't the greatest. The only one of those 4 I don't think has a chance of being scum is SlySly.

Magna is the biggest name on that list, and his play seems to have an underlying agenda. It's like he is trying to throw suspicion on other people to avoid the suspicions that are currently being ridden. Maybe add chaos to game.
warriormode's wagon has gone completely silent it seems as discussion moves away from 4seen and Warrior and onto players like Junpei and Ludi. At the same time, warrior has also disappeared into the void of discussion.
nopoint is more of a vibe than anything. I don't like Bunny, and nopoint likes Bunny. As a result I get a bad vibe about nopoint.
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Post Post #506 (isolation #32) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:45 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 505, Toogeloo wrote:The only one of those 4 I don't think has a chance of being scum is SlySly.

EBWOP: Only one I think is town is SlySly rather.
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Post Post #507 (isolation #33) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:46 am

Post by Toogeloo »

nevermind, I wrote it right the first time and just confused myself on the reread <_>.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #34) » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:57 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 514, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Observation - note the bolded ignores the current biggest wagon of the game (Stringer) in demonstrating that suspicion is moving from Fourseen and Warrior to other players.

Toog
- why is that?
Junpei and Ludi were the first two names that came to town about discussion of current lynch prospects. I hadn't even realized Stringer had as many votes as he has akrewed.


Magister Ludi wrote:Thanks toog. Also, I don't think your bunny lover vote is going to go anywhere today. Would you consider switching to one of these other wagons I proposed? (outside of your town read on slysly)

Yeah, Bunny isn't getting the love I want her to get.

Unvote;
Vote: nopoint
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Post Post #545 (isolation #35) » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:39 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 544, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Toog wrote:Junpei and Ludi were the first two names that came to town about discussion of current lynch prospects. I hadn't even realized Stringer had as many votes as he has akrewed.


So are you not following the thread carefully or not reading the Mod Vote-counts?
The latest vote count happened right after I had made that post. I wasn't even aware the amount of shifting that had been done, no.

MoI wrote:
Toog wrote:Yeah, Bunny isn't getting the love I want her to get.

Unvote;
Vote: nopoint


Why aren’t you voting for me? In 505 you express clearly the reasons you think I can be scum. Although you indicate that NoPoint might be scum (in saying only Slysly doesn’t have a chance of being Town) your ISO doesn’t address him at all.
Because a vote on you is no different than a vote on Bunny. I'd be going from only voter to only voter. My vote does more on nopoint.
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Post Post #547 (isolation #36) » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:43 am

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm pretty sure I gave just as much reasoning for either of you to possibly be scum.

I think I said you I felt you had underlying motives in your posts, and that I didn't like nopoint because he likes Bunny.
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Post Post #552 (isolation #37) » Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:16 am

Post by Toogeloo »

There are plenty of players who will act anti-town for anti-town's sake, but we do have plenty of Village Idiots, or temporary dunces, on this site.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #38) » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:58 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 601, Magister Ludi wrote:Yeah, I think nopoint is scum. His entire wall are lies. And I get the distinct feeling he wants to have really long clashing wall battle just to bog down everything.

I read the response more as, "You guys haven't said anything that makes me scum, it's not fair I could possibly be lynched." Like we are right for all the wrong reasons lol.
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Post Post #666 (isolation #39) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:20 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Shooting nopoint and then lynching Stringer would give us a ton of discussion for tomorrow.
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Post Post #724 (isolation #40) » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:17 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 721, nopointinactingup wrote:I have overflow (2 shot cycling freezer).

This sounds like a scum ability in my opinion as it allows for scum to circumvent the poisoning and keep an ability on themselves for 2 Nights.


Has Stringer explicitly stated that the Hider dies if it hides behind scum? Are we sure that it's not a Universal Hider that can hide behind anyone, because that doesn't confirm anyone.
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Post Post #762 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:26 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Any player that formed a methodical wagon at some point today, that you have a scum read on, would be the best shot. Do not shoot Fourseen as whatever voters he attracted today regardless of flip will be largely indistinguishable for analysis. It would be closer to a policy vigging than informational. Wagons with conviction are the best targets so you can get a better read on the players that were for and against those lynches.
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Post Post #866 (isolation #42) » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:39 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Vote: Furculow


Least liked person on the previous nopoint wagon.
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Post Post #1135 (isolation #43) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:36 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Kill: Whispersilk


OMG, what have I done!!!

I swear I was only polishing it and it just went off!


I passed my "anti-town" ability to DGB last night, but she did not die with it apparently.


My ability was Reroute, which allowed me to reroute a player's cycling choice. I rerouted KDub's Day Kill to myself, and as you can see, I prematurely detonated all over whispersilk. Afterwards, I cycled it to DGB, which she didn't have on her at the time of death, so likely it hit the void, or someone took it from her or me during the cycling (though, since my ability was Reroute, that would require a second routing ability). The ability to Day Kill is now expended with my shot (there was only one bullet left).


A good chunk of the case on Stringer was him role-fishing my "anti-town" role yesterday. Clearly, if we were scum-buddies, this wouldn't be a necessary point for him to inquire upon as he would know what my role was. But, whatev's.
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Post Post #1139 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:39 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

But... I said it was an accident =(
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Post Post #1144 (isolation #45) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:43 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1141, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 1135, Toogeloo wrote:My ability was Reroute, which allowed me to reroute a player's cycling choice. I rerouted KDub's Day Kill to myself, and as you can see, I prematurely detonated all over whispersilk. Afterwards, I cycled it to DGB, which she didn't have on her at the time of death, so likely it hit the void, or someone took it from her or me during the cycling (though, since my ability was Reroute, that would require a second routing ability). The ability to Day Kill is now expended with my shot (there was only one bullet left).
A good chunk of the case on Stringer was him role-fishing my "anti-town" role yesterday. Clearly, if we were scum-buddies, this wouldn't be a necessary point for him to inquire upon as he would know what my role was. But, whatev's.


Well let's see what develops with this.

In the meantime I'll just address the bolded as it is pure crap. The big part of Stringer's case was his 'Speed of the Wagon, oh no!" obv-scum two step with Warriormode and Fourseen. And his subsequent lurkage and scummy play. You pretty much don't get any Towniness with what you wrote. Whatevs indeed.

I said a good chunk, not a big part. Stringer got a lot of early suspicion due to his fishing.

projectmatt wrote:Do you play like this when you're town?

As Magna should be able to attest to... yes.
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Post Post #1145 (isolation #46) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:45 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

You guys are analyzing the wrong wagons bee tee dubz.

Stringer was scum, and was close to lynched yesterday. Players that caused Furc's lynch to succeed are where suspicions should start.
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Post Post #1147 (isolation #47) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:51 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1146, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Nope, don't ever remember you playing obv-scum as Town. Sorry Charlie ... you stink of scum.

I'm hurt you don't remember me striking you in Metropolis.
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Post Post #1155 (isolation #48) » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:20 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1152, Bunnylover wrote:
I had no ability last night, therefore I passed none


@Toog: Why did you choose now to kill?

Get it out of the way. I had the same read on whispersilk that DGB did based on the way the vote went down, figured I would just TCB in my first post.

I "almost" shot Magna to be honest, but figured Magna is at least active.
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Post Post #1163 (isolation #49) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:57 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1161, Junpei wrote:RedCoyote, something as wifomy as a quickshot is enough to give you a solid town read?
Something as WIFOMy as the way a player replaced out was enough for a town read from me... it must be catching.
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Post Post #1174 (isolation #50) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:51 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1173, chkflip wrote:Toog - what in particular made you shoot that slot? I know you said "I'm sheeping blahblah read" but what posts in particular made you do it?

Call it a retribution shot for DGB. I felt whisper's vote was placed at about the time I expected scum to place it, and the activity and way the vote was done just didn't feel right. It wasn't a sheepish read, DGB and I are separate people, and I could have ignored DGB's feelings on the matter today entirely if I wanted to and gone with initial reaction to shoot Magna like I had postured on all night phase. Decided on whisper due to the slot itself being weak. If I had hit Magna on gut, and he flipped town, it would have been far more devastating than shooting a target that I analyzed as being poor both in vote placement and actual relevance to the game.


I'm liking the Magna hate, and will start a crusade against him if other people's feet are a bit too cold to get it going. Magna is being very manipulative with his posts, and I really,
really
, think Ghost is town. The fact that he was
THIRD
person on Stringer yesterday doesn't give him any cookies for Stringer actually flipping scum, especially since Stringer was completely abandoned eventually. I think players farming for attention elsewhere than Stringer are obviously worth attention, but gut hates Magna, and that's enough for me for now.

Vote: Magna
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Post Post #1181 (isolation #51) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:07 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1177, Junpei wrote:That doesn't make it right. Are you always this bad, or are you just trying to agitate me? Also your MoI vote is awful, and not just because I don't agree with it; although if our positions were swapped, I'm sure you would vote me over it.

Difference of opinion. Yes, meta is never a good practice, nor should it be an absolute for people to confirm or condemn, but I hardly worried about your opinion on DGB. At no time did I try and argue that your opinion on whether DGB is scum or not was invalid. I stated my metathought on DGB, and I told myself that under no circumstances would I ever be voting for DGB.

I "might" be trying to agitate you, yes. I have been called a troll before.

If someone comes to the conclusion that my actions are not possible for scum, and call me town of it, then that is his prerogative as well. It's not like Coyote is defending me. He is simply stating he has a town read on me.


Are you saying that if you had gut shot first post of the day and hit town, I would be all over you? I think not. I can't say I would or wouldn't with absolution, but I wouldn't condemn you if you shot willy nilly. KDub asked for town's permission before shooting and hit town. I think that looks worse in my opinion since he would be absolving himself of guilt by shooting the person that people were supporting a shot on. However, I am not building a case on KDub for it simply because he hit town. His action can be town or scum.


As I have been saying since Day 1, MoI's posts appear to have a hidden agenda laced in them, and his posts can oft-times be seen as almost hypocritical. I had scum MoI pegged early in Metropolis, but he wasn't playing up to his standard par that game, so he was easy to catch. I have seen MoI third party as well. In both cases, his game was very calculated, and his posts were very manipulative. I'm getting the same vibe here that I got in those two games.
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #52) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:30 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 505, Toogeloo wrote:Magna is the biggest name on that list, and his play seems to have an underlying agenda. It's like he is trying to throw suspicion on other people to avoid the suspicions that are currently being ridden. Maybe add chaos to game.
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Post Post #1228 (isolation #53) » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:23 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1216, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I was right on more than just Stringer. I read both NoPoint and Furc correctly as Town.

Is it hard for scum to be right about most reads?
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Post Post #1277 (isolation #54) » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:13 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1203, MagnaofIllusion wrote:@Toog - What happened to that Bunnylover strong suspicion from Day 1? Forget it completely? What did Bunny do that makes him Town now?

I never said Bunny was town, nor did I say Bunny was no longer a suspicion. Bunny has dropped off my radar a bit due to other things I have wanted to take care of, and to some degree that nopoint flipped town. Why? Are you thinking Bunny is scum? [
cwutididthar
]


I think chkflip is town. I don't believe scum would try to pressure me and then back off in the manner that he did. Still feeling that Ghost is town as well. Just the way that the votals moved, the sincerity I feel in his posts. It reads as town.

Ludi still reads as town to me as well, that's more gut.

I'd be fine with lynching Magna, Bunny, and probably wazzatron (another player I was starting to get a bad vibe on towards the end of yesterday).
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Post Post #1337 (isolation #55) » Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:52 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Why do I feel like I keep seeing the same cyclical conversation amongst the same people?

Unvote;
Vote: wazzatron


The only scum read I have that will probably get traction today.
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Post Post #1377 (isolation #56) » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:22 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1355, Junpei wrote:Implosion and FC are very scummy anyway; so PV can wait for when we get better reads on him.
If he tries to lurk/coast, we'll lynch him
. Or at least, I'll vote for him.

Isn't that what he has been doing? This line seems suspicious to me, almost like a defense of PV. If PV flips scum, I'd be wary of Junpei as his partner. I just recently got out of a game with PV lurker scum as well, but I have not played with him as town, so I don't know if that is his standard MO.
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Post Post #1393 (isolation #57) » Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:49 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Unvote;
Vote: PereV
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #58) » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:19 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

Why did you watch Sinestro?

I'm getting a bad vibe at the last 5 posts (not counting the host's post). Scum in one of those posts at least (lean: Junpei).

Scum reads:
PV, Junpei, wazzatron/IAI, MoI, Bunny (in that order). Warrior gets a stiff looking at as well because I really don't get the Sinestro watch atm.
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Post Post #1409 (isolation #59) » Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:41 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'm not questioning the whole thing all together, but scum is probably already on that wagon for sure. Watching Sinestro is just "what the fuck?" from what I can tell. I want to know why he chose Sinestro. Also, why does warrior not mention this when the day started and vote for Sinestro right away?
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Post Post #1439 (isolation #60) » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I assume he was looking to avoid scan roles.
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Post Post #1444 (isolation #61) » Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:00 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 730, Stringer Bell wrote:
In post 724, Toogeloo wrote:

Has Stringer explicitly stated that the Hider dies if it hides behind scum? Are we sure that it's not a Universal Hider that can hide behind anyone, because that doesn't confirm anyone.


Anyone who targets me with an action, that action will fail. If I hide behind someone who is not Eruci (which I guess includes the SK, if there is one like last game), then I die.
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Post Post #1451 (isolation #62) » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:24 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I think the No Alignment Alterations is the biggest strike against Sinestro's post.

Gonna go ahead and also declare my intentions for V/LA from the 24th-27th for Thanksgiving holiday as well.



I think my reservations of the whole situation still is about why warrior would choose Sinestro to watch. I wonder if it's more likely that Stringer and Warrior are scummates, Stringer died behind Sinestro, and Warrior claimed that he watched Sinestro to get rid of a possible hiccup in the scum team's game.
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Post Post #1462 (isolation #63) » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:24 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1453, Junpei wrote:Toog, are you denying that Sinestro is scum?

I've never tried to deny Sinestro as scanned scum. I am trying to determine the motivations of the rest of the play surrounding the whole situation because it just smells fishy.

Short version, I really don't get the impression that warrior really watched Sinestro last night. His play today has not suggested he thought Sinestro was scum or even third party, and the idea of choosing Sinestro to watch just doesn't resound right to me. Sinestro will likely be today's lynch due to both the info and the claim, but Warrior's motives are extremely questionable, the speed at which the wagon formed and lackluster reasoning for jumping aboard by several players is also questionable, and I just get the feeling that scum is trying to get rid of Sinestro in order to remove one of the few threats to them. Third party factions are often banes to scum due to the randomness of the role and they likeliness of losing a faction member to the player, so getting rid of Sinestro is definitely something they would want to do early.

The fact that Sinestro HAD to be third party the moment warrior claimed the info should have drawn scum to the lynch, either because warrior himself is scum trying to get rid of Sinestro, or because scum will want to take the opportunity to get rid of confirmed third party scum immediately.
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Post Post #1463 (isolation #64) » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:26 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

And for what it's worth... I will never condone leashing a Serial Killer. They will continue to play to their win condition, and are not on the side of town.
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Post Post #1468 (isolation #65) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:41 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1467, RedCoyote wrote:I like Sly's point. Sinestro could never actually "be on our side" at any point in this game. So Sinestro is caught flat out lying there.

That said, I think his claim is believable. If we decide to use him for our benefit, we have to be very mindful of the number count. We don't want it to ever get to a point where Sinestro would have the opportunity to flip allegiances for an
assured win with the scumteam
if the numbers get too thin.
Not possible. If he is SK, he is last man standing more than likely, and he will gladly shoot anyone town tells him to, hoping of course that every shot he takes keeps the game in balance. As numbers dwindle, it will become more and more difficult to get rid of him because wasting our time on SK is less time spent trying to lynch mafia. We are already down 5 town to 1 mafia.

Remember that killing the SK helps us because it takes one kill away at night that could potentially hit town and also lengthens the amount of time we can spend hunting for mafia.
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Post Post #1469 (isolation #66) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:42 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Also don't forget that we will never come to a consensus on who SK can shoot, and the SK leash shot can just as easily be influenced by scum as town. You do not leash an SK.
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Post Post #1473 (isolation #67) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:25 am

Post by Toogeloo »

Day Kill ability is out of shots, as KDub can attest to.
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Post Post #1483 (isolation #68) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:18 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1475, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Toogeloo's Post 1462 actually makes me think he has inside information. No reason before Sinestro's claim (which until his flip should be taken with a grain of salt anyway in case he's Mafia looking to ride a leashed SK claim for a few days) to think that Warrior's claim meant that Sinestro must be 3rd party. Could easily be two scum teams (and Sinestro's claim doesn't eliminate this possibility). If we only have one Mafia faction this is a slip and Toog needs rope.
In post 1476, SlySly wrote:Agreed.

SB flipped Temiati not Daevori. I find it very unlikely that Sinestro is going to flip The Asxtori. If he doesn't, we know he's not 3rd party and Toog and ML will both need rope.

Stringer died by hiding behind non-Eruci, and claimed the possibility of SK when he claimed his ability. Stringer flipped Termiati. Therefore, scum team is Termiati. Why would I think any differently? And where is Daevori ever mentioned anywhere? My Role Pm only stated enemies of the Eruci.
Last edited by The Eruci on Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #1484 (isolation #69) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:18 am

Post by Toogeloo »

bah, fix my tags please mod.
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Post Post #1485 (isolation #70) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:22 am

Post by Toogeloo »

And why would I assume two scum teams when the most common setup is one scum team and an independent?
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Post Post #1490 (isolation #71) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:06 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1488, MagnaofIllusion wrote:So what about your Role PM saying %u2018enemies of the Eruci%u2019 specifically excludes mutli-Scum? I know you%u2019ve played in multiple games with Multi-scum so your %u2018most common%u2019 argument doesn%u2019t hold much water?

Why would I make that assumption? Stringer said "I guess that includes the SK." So why would I think there is multiple teams as opposed to one team and an SK?
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Post Post #1497 (isolation #72) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:19 am

Post by Toogeloo »

I think Warrior had Watcher ability as well, I just doubt he used it on Sinestro.
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Post Post #1507 (isolation #73) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:18 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1504, SlySly wrote:Why would the flavor of the scum team change from game 1 (Daevori) and the flavor of the 3rd party remain the same (The Asxtori)? It makes no sense to me.

I don't know, why don't you WIFOM on it a little bit more?
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Post Post #1525 (isolation #74) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:10 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1522, MagnaofIllusion wrote:And ding you hit the bullseye. Why are you making any assumptions at all about the set-up? We know there is a Temaiti (or proper spelling) faction and we have a claimed Serial Killer. That%u2019s all Town should know at this stage.Yet your posting betrays that you may in fact know that there is only a Single Mafia faction. It%u2019s subtle but it%u2019s there and means if we determine down the line that only a single faction is likely you absolutely need rope if you are still among the living.

Wow... so if I believe Termiati is the only scum faction, you see me as scum, but if I don't include Daevori as a possible scum team, I am scum to SlySly. Guess I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I have been posting this entire time based on the information we have present. Stringer suggested an SK when he flipped scum, therefore I believe one team (Termiati) and an SK. How hard is that to comprehend? There is NOTHING to suggest multiple teams yet, so why would I even consider that possibility?

Do you go into every game expecting multiple teams? Do you think, "this game probably has 4 Serial Killers, 10 Mafia between 3 teams, and maybe just me as the only town?" The most common setup of multiple factions is town, mafia, serial killer. I have seen nothing to suggest differently yet. You are misrepresenting my entire argument to make it seem like I have inside information.


Hey guess what. You got a Scum right and two Town right on Day 1. You have inside information to know so much about the players, mirite?
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Post Post #1526 (isolation #75) » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:14 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

If we lynch Sinestro today, since I know we won't have to worry about extra kills for a bit, I will GLADLY volunteer myself for lynching tomorrow just to remove myself as a distraction if you want Magna, but I swear to god, if you don't get lynched sometime shortly after me, I will be SORELY disappointed in this town for putting up with your bullshit manipulation cases. All you do is paint people as ugly as you possibly can. You don't actually use evidence, you have to twist every sentence that someone that you don't like says into a way for you to make them a target.
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Post Post #1536 (isolation #76) » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:15 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1530, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Toog wrote:Wow... so if I believe Termiati is the only scum faction, you see me as scum, but if I don't include Daevori as a possible scum team, I am scum to SlySly. Guess I am damned if I do and damned if I don't. I have been posting this entire time based on the information we have present. Stringer suggested an SK when he flipped scum, therefore I believe one team (Termiati) and an SK. How hard is that to comprehend? There is NOTHING to suggest multiple teams yet, so why would I even consider that possibility?


There is nothing that DOESN’T suggest multiple scum teams at this stage. Once again – you quote possibly slipped if the case that only one Mafia team exists. I'm not willing to just write of something very possible (especially given the strong indication at the end of Cycle X01 that adding a second full Mafia team would help balance out the set-up) just 'because'.

But since you think only one exists – please detail how all your scum picks make sense linked to Stringer scum.

Toog wrote:Do you go into every game expecting multiple teams?
Do you think, "this game probably has 4 Serial Killers, 10 Mafia between 3 teams, and maybe just me as the only town?"
The most common setup of multiple factions is town, mafia, serial killer. I have seen nothing to suggest differently yet. You are misrepresenting my entire argument to make it seem like I have inside information.


I go into every Large Theme game not expecting anything not told to me directly by the Mod. Suggesting otherwise is stupid (or just low level play). The bolded is scummy hyperbole meant to undermine. Nice touch.

Toog wrote:Hey guess what. You got a Scum right and two Town right on Day 1. You have inside information to know so much about the players, mirite?


Lulz. Nice WIFOM there Toog. Weren’t you just sarcasticly dismissing something else as that? Hypocrisy for the win!!!!!

Toog wrote: If we lynch Sinestro today, since I know we won't have to worry about extra kills for a bit, I will GLADLY volunteer myself for lynching tomorrow just to remove myself as a distraction if you want Magna, but I swear to god, if you don't get lynched sometime shortly after me, I will be SORELY disappointed in this town for putting up with your bullshit manipulation cases. All you do is paint people as ugly as you possibly can.
You don't actually use evidence
, you have to twist every sentence that someone that you don't like says into a way for you to make them a target.


Barring a cop Guilty / similar damning evidence tomorrow I will absolutely take you up on this Toog. Thanks for the offer (which I’m completely guessing is empty).

The bolded is Newb crap posting and AtE – what evidence do you want? Don’t like that cases not built on Follow the Cop actually can produce scum flips? Feeling 'caught' for the wrong reasons?

-There is nothing to suggest multiple teams at this point either. I would never even consider multiple teams unless someone's role suggested it, or we saw different flips. I will correct my reads later when I figure that information out. I always assume one team, then I add the rest of the mechanics as the game unfolds.
-I am amazed that you picked up on the hyperbole, but you didn't pick up on the sarcastic argument about your inside information. Must have been a little truth in that part, huh?
-Not empty at all. My comments about how I typically play scummy, my lurkish Day 1, my vig shot. I imagine each and every one of these is highly distracting to people. So if I must sacrifice myself so that I am not a distraction late game, I will do so. However, once my flip happens, people will see how antagonistic and manipulative you have been of my posts, and I am hopeful you gain the scrutiny you deserve.

--My scum reads have been MoI, PV, Junpei, wazzatron/IAI, warrior, and Bunny.
-Bunny gets less and less lucrative to me as a scum read while the others get more prominent. Bunny was a gut read on one post in Day 1.
-PV and Junpei are linked by Junpei's post somewhat defending PV stating if PV was lurking, he would vote for him (Which PV was doing).
-wazzatron/IAI have been opportunistic on their attacks, throwing support against players which have already been attacked by other players.
-I don't trust Warrior's scan, and I read it as an opportunity for the scum team to get rid of third party since they found him on accident when their mate hid behind him.
-I detest your play so far. You have clung to "town status" because you claimed Stringer scum and nopoint and Furc town; something not difficult to do as scum mind you. Almost all your arguments against other players have been constantly questioning their reads and motivations in such a manner that you paint them scummy for thinking in the way they do. You twist player's posts to mold them into looking scummier than they should instead of reading them at face value.
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Post Post #1539 (isolation #77) » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:27 am

Post by Toogeloo »

At least I can admit that my playstyle isn't the most pro-town play. You still don't think you have manipulated anything.
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Post Post #1548 (isolation #78) » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:41 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1546, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Peregrine wrote:OK, so you'll have to explain this also. If player A passes to player B who passes to player C who passes to player D, how the hell does that catch scum?


Did you not read the first game at all?

Example of clearing connnections via passing.

Player A passes to Player B Night 1.
Player B passes to Player C Night 2.
Day 3 Player B doesn’t die immediately at Day start. Thus A and B can’t be aligned together.
Player C passes to Player D Night 3.
Day 4 Player C doesn’t die immediately at Day start. Thus B and C can’t be aligned together.

Much later in the game those web of links creates a powerful set of PoE eliminations that can be used on top of play to find scum late-game.

Example of finding scum via deaths

Player A passes to Player B Night 1.
Player B passes to Player C Night 2.
Day 3 Player B doesn’t die immediately at Day start. Thus A and B can’t be aligned together.
Day 4 Player C dies from ‘Passing’. It is known that PlayerB and PlayerC are aligned together.

Via the publicly claimed information (such as who passed to who Night 2 it can be determined who passed to PlayerC. Said player is lynched as outed scum.

In both cases each passing power that survives a Night increases the amount of information available to Town. The longer the powers stay in play the stronger the PoE possibilities become. This is absolutely why specifically Voiding any powers is at best strongly Anti-Town and a good scum strategy.
For someone who makes no assumptions about the game, you make a lot of assumptions that scum can't pass abilities to each other via some other method.

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 1539, Toogeloo wrote:At least I can admit that my playstyle isn't the most pro-town play. You still don't think you have manipulated anything.


You didn't answer the questions put to you but just took another little pot-shot.

Do you think it's helpful to Town to do so?

My reads are independent of each other. Not all 6 people I have named as scum are going to flip that way, I am not that savant-like. Reads change as the game progresses. For now though, I can safely say that Junpei, Warrior, and wazzatron/IAI were not on the Stringer vote train. You were third, which is the ample point to put a bus vote down. PV is more gut because of Junpei's comment, and as I mentioned before Bunny is a read slipping away simply because of a comment she made on Day 1.

And don't pretend that we haven't been trading pot shots all day. How am I scum, besides my "slip" that I seem to know the setup? Or are you just going to bash every sentence I say as "sarcasm, hyperbole, pot shots, and slips?"

I have methods to my madness that require me to not always be 100% pro-town, so yes, it does help town, whether they understand it or not at the time. It does blow up in my face plenty, but I accept that I can't always do what I think is right, but I have grown to trust my gut, and when I think something should be done, anti-town or pro-town, I will do it.
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Post Post #1590 (isolation #79) » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:44 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

I'll hammer Sinestro.

Still on V/LA, but will try to monitor the situation. I don't think he is at L-1 yet.
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Post Post #1595 (isolation #80) » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:34 pm

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I will still hammer, just tell me when.
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Post Post #1605 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:29 am

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1596, I Am Innocent wrote:You know the rules in Set x01 had a condition for the SK that when he killed someone (aka was the hammer vote), he got that persons' abilities?So the fact your last two posts are offering to hammer, as well as you are my #2 suspect right now behind Sinestro, I emphatically want you not to be the hammer.

If you think Sinestro is SK, and even remotely consider him to have the a Bomb ability, you would be killing off two birds with one stone if you think I am scum.

I will be doing the hammering, I am just waiting for everyone to have their say before I do.
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Post Post #1616 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:43 pm

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Honestly, if you guys don't want me to hammer, that's fine. I was offering because *if* Sinestro was a bomb, it will quell whatever highly exaggerated intent of my postings there has been.
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Post Post #1617 (isolation #83) » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:47 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 1606, MagnaofIllusion wrote:My assumption here is based on the first game where a skill similar to the one you claimed to have N1 existed and was the only way for scum to circumvent the standard passing set-up. The set-up is fairly open and a non-passable ability for Mafia to hoard abilities for themselves would be pretty unbalancing.

So curiously, I think you believe I am scum with Sinestro if two teams exist, am I right? If I passed my ability to DGB, and Sinestro shot him, what gain is that for a scum team? This also doesn't explain why you are so adamant to make no assumption of a single team and an SK when you keep using the first game as a basis for all your other assumptions, which had only a single team and an SK.

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