A Dance with Dragons Mafia: A New Dawn!

[Pandora]

Why would anyone suspect this to be multiball? The last Game of Thrones mafia wasn't. Scumslips are still stupid and never work, the people most likely to mention the dreaded M-Word first seem to be town not worried about tripping the wire. I consider this a double lynch that gives the second suspect a vengekill.

Vote: Dolorous Edd

Choose: Minimum

PS: Maybe he wanted it secret when he was just alting but I had no intention of being a secret hydra. SORRY QUILLY. He was like hey we never do anything together anymore wanna hydra and I was like okay and he was like how about this game of thrones game and I was like but Tierce isn't in it and then it turned out she was in it so Yay! The end. I will not remember to sign posts but I like to think I'm distinctive right?

[Pandora]

Why would anyone suspect this to be multiball? The last Game of Thrones mafia wasn't. Scumslips are still stupid and never work, the people most likely to mention the dreaded M-Word first seem to be town not worried about tripping the wire. I consider this a double lynch that gives the second suspect a vengekill.

Vote: Dolorous Edd

Choose: Minimum

I don't think I follow you at all :/

You said that you can't see how anyone would see this as multiball.

Yet you vote me and Min...

While Feysal is the one who slipped with the multiball...

Though you also mention that scumslips are stupid.

So, which is it?

What does one have to do with the other? This kind of response is what I'm voting you for, along with the bad double bandwagon hopping. Do you have some opinion of Minimum that makes you upset I voted them?

[Pandora]

Umm, obv you can't point out to something that makes someone look suspcious and then vote the people who pointed out the same thing and voted that person...

the people most likely to mention the dreaded M-Word first seem to be town not worried about tripping the wire

The words are right fucking there. You're misrepresenting what I said in the worst possible way. On the other hand, you're the one who went "OMG HE SAID MULTIBALL!" /o/

This kind of response is what

I'm voting you for, along with the bad double bandwagon hopping

.

Are you really serious? Wtf? I am the first vote on Star and I'm the second on Feysal (and the first to point out what made him look suspicious, mind you). How the fuck am I "double bandwagoning"?[/quote]
Let me put it another way then that you should understand. Your original vote on Starbuck is typical RVS. Your pursuit of her is continuing over game theory (that you agreed with earlier, that we shouldn't try to pick scum to have the vig) and because you don't get something Starbuck appears to be hopeless confused about. Can you tell me what is scummy about what she's saying? I think you're just staying on the wagon that picked up and justifying your stay with questions that bring out more theory-related confusion instead of pulling out scum reads.

As for Feysal, you're the one who pointed out why it would be going with what's popular:

Who said they were sure scum would shoot another scum? I mean, other than Feysal, and he got jumped on for having inside info that it's multiball...

It's stereotypical. You also sound like you've forgiven him later, but I don't see you rushing to change your cozy position.

[Pandora]

I sign my hydra posts with failed quote tags, clearly.

[Pandora]

That word had an ly when I typed it. >_> Suffice it to say I don't think he sounds confused, he sounds way too overdefensive over something that shouldn't be that big a deal, especially since no one else is voting him yet. If it were such a weak and misrepresenting point I would have expected him to vote/choose me by now.

Looking over redff I have to admit his last post immediately set my teeth on edge.

I was trying to articulate my point to Starbuck because she didn't seem to understand it fully from other posts.

Why do you care what the person you're voting thinks about your points on her? Your vote is based on the same misunderstanding of theory, except you seem to think she's purposely pushing bad logic. Why aren't you going after Edd then, since he proposed we give the vig to town?

Ew he even made the Starbuck/Feysal votes. I'm not sure if I want to Choose him though, and I don't really want to give Dolorous the vig either. From what I've read I don't think I'd trust redff with a gun.

[Pandora]

I guess that's true. I think every large theme I've been in was multiball come to think of it. Still, doesn't that make offhandedly mentioning it as a fact even more reasonable? I feel like I'm going to close to writing his defense for him so I'm going to say I disagree with you. I don't expect him to take long to post his huge replies that I recall skipping completely in GvE. -.- I honestly hope it's not a scumtell for him to post more concisely because god damn.

[Pandora]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Feysal

There's no way this guy ain't scum. Look at that #61 -- he's backpedaling. If it was so obvious the game was multiball, why didn't anyone else pick up on it? And, if nobody had picked up on it by your post #47 despite it being so obvious, why didn't you point it out when you talked about crosskills? Moreover, all Feysal's posts so far have been theory related. Classic. (Don't know why we're Choosing him instead of lynching him. I don't really want scum getting a Vig shot N1 if we can help it. Whoever we're less confident in can be Chosen.)

Benmage is also scum, but gentlemen don't change both their hydra's votes without first making sure it pleases the lady.

Tyene Sand and Dolorous Edd are town.

-- Quilford

PEdit: odear lol

[Pandora]

:<

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

[Quilford's] comments about redFF read as town

Btdubs: I didn't make any. You were reading my hydra buddy, who is XXXXXX. :P

I don't think Feysal assuming that it's multi-ball without massively elaborating on it is a scum-tell at all, it's the sort of assumption I can see him making and right now I think his play matches his town meta closer than his scum meta.

You think it's an assumption you can see Feysal making. Tierce doesn't. Can you explain this dissonance?

Also Faraday has made several comments to me in the past that he thinks a 28 player game without there being more than one night kill a night is a bad idea and would last forever.

So?

You seem reserved, Regfan. Can you explain how you got your 'fairly strong scum-read on [Starbuck's] earlyish comments'?

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

This is already more fun then I thought it would be. Already blaming me for everything are you, PandorB? =.= I have to sleep now but we're going to talk this out in ~*~private~*~ unless you want to watch us. No peeping!

Actually, from what I saw of Chrono Trigger, Feysal gave up on the essays after awhile. Demotivated scum disease. This half is more interested in hearing what he has to say about people that isn't flavor related before making judgements. I might agree to Choose him for being shaky. I like to let people have ~two~ posts before making them my prime suspect.

Regfan: Not-Tierce has been calling me by name you know. This is Shadoweh popping out of the forbidden box!

[Pandora]

Zar, do you think 'this' is townie or scummy? If so why? Don't be a meanieface again.
- Shadowtoteslyingaboutsleepingagain

[Pandora]

Compromising for m'lady.

UNVOTE:

UNCHOOSE:
CHOOSE: Feysal

--

@Regfan:

You think it's an assumption you can see Feysal making. Tierce doesn't. Can you explain this dissonance?

Tierce is right in that Feysal does often elaborate on some things in great great detail but I don't think a conversation about the likelihood of multi-scum is needing of walls of text like he normally spends on the things he talks about, especially when there's the choosing mechanic to talk about instead.

I'm not convinced. It was an assumption nobody else had noted until that point; it's also a fairly setup-relevant assumption: it's not the kind of thing anyone would bring up without substantiating it, least of all a player who is supposedly fond of making lengthy posts. I don't get why you're not finding it scummy.

Were you getting a scumread off Stefan when you posted #113 and #114? Because you've written them in a negative/skeptical tone, and I don't understand how you have a strong townread on him in your next post. You said you found his "'getting into the game' to be super genuine", but all I can see in the three posts between your change in read is a

very

murky stream-of-consciousness, and some weak one-line reads.

I did explain my earlish scum read on Starbuck but it has to do with the fact that her focus and comments about people 'whimsically' throwing around choose votes doesn't show any real thought process behind it, thinking about it for a minute would make someone realize that the difference between that and RVS voting is nill and the lack of that consideration makes more sense as scum posting without thinking into things too deeply and her explanation behind it in Post 42 makes little to no sense.

Can't you say the same for Benmage?

Have you developed any stronger scumreads yet?

--

Pretty iffy about Salamence. His catch-up was pretty bad, but he followed up on questions from it, which isn't something I'd expect scum to do.

--

This post of Hyperion's drew my attention. It's really bad (theory disagreements, bad questions, apparently nothing of note within the last 100 posts). Everything about him reads newbscum. His 'catch-up' basically graphs scum demotivation over time. Rope needed.

--

It's just Quilford-Shadoweh. Canadians aren't very good at anonymity.

Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

--

I like hasdgfas for town.

--

Now to see whether Shadoweh thinks I'm insane.

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

|

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

*disables smilies*

[Pandora]

Of course I think you're crazy, but you're the kind of crazy that's in my head.
Speaking of in my head, we are having a conversation that goes something like this:
Shadoweh: oh my god I hate you Edd's posts are so scummy
Quilford: whyyy nooo they're not
Shadoweh: Do you not realize that he was so busy 'arguing with us' that he hadn't even voted until #215? We didn't even answer his questions, he just went ignoring us once you declared him town. And then he votes Starbuck and yells angrilly even more at anyone else attacking him. Like Hyperion, he's like HOW DARE YOU CHOOSE ME
Quilford: i feel like he's townieraging effectively

ASFDGHAFG. Whatever at least we agree on something.

##Vote: Hyperion

Hated entrance post. Ignoring first 'quotes go here' post, his quote wall is full of Information We Already Know. Which is like IIoA's cousin. The thing about Starbuck is obvious but doesn't seem to impact his scum choices, The choose argument has had both sides explained in depth, if he thinks Starbuck is town why is he bothering to question her again later, and his vote is because BBmolla faked seeing a scumslip. None of the questions asked seem like they'll lead anywhere. It's garbage that doesn't sound like anything

And as much as Edd makes me rattle.. whatever that little furry dood is carrying, choosing him for such a small point and because MoI sed so instead of something bad he's actually done by now is lazy. I wonder if Choose is like an FoS today?

Other suspects include Salamance and Jar, who I will read in more detail with Quilly Willy and decide if we hate enough to leave Feysal alone (I still pretty much think Feysal is a dead end myself)

Regfan: Quilford sez he thinks the only point with merit is the supposedly awkward entrance to the thread, he thinks it's likely he's just forgotten to vote not-benmage but your point about him 'having no scum read to have wanted to move towards all game' is moot because he admitted as much at the end of his latest post. I kind of agree with him since it doesn't make sense for scum to not want a scum read to move towards, they're kind of trying to kill us after all.
How does SS know about Mina and CES, he's been around three days but he's implied he played with Mina before? ("The idea I have of Mina's town play is that I usually agree with her")

Also Not-Tierce and Not-Tammy should keep their flirting between content posts.

You're making me jealous, we're an alt too, I'm sure there were creepy furry creatures somewhere in the book right? :<

[Pandora]

OH YEAH THIS IS THE NOT-QUILFORD ANONYMOUS HEAD FOR THE READING IMPAIRED LIKE MOS

[Pandora]

Edd: "I think Pandora is scum with Feysal. I think this because of that scumslip of Feysal that he is defending. Let's vote Pandora and lynch Feysal if they're scum."
u doin it rong. Reading your posts from both heads give me brain damage. Do either of you like, realize there are people that exist in this game that don't revolve around you?

Stefan, your cases, cough, sound more like a reel of buzzwords. How would Minimum 'prove' that they're town? What exactly do you want from them?
I haven't forgotten redff either, but it's hard to pursue someone in the bahamas when you're stuck in iglootown.

- Suspicious Heartfelt Atypical Dour Omnicient Waffling Emergency Hydrapartner

[Pandora]

It's all well and good to say that but if some of us didn't take it seriously the game would never progress to the point where people can get reads and have 'for serious' cases. (as far as I'm concerned it's been long enough, a few days and 17 pages should be more then enough to find scum)

[Pandora]

It's all well and good to say that but if some of us didn't take it seriously the game would never progress to the point where people can get reads and have 'for serious' cases. (as far as I'm concerned it's been long enough, a few days and 17 pages should be more then enough to find scum)

If it were that easy, why, town would never lose. I'm trying to get the simple notion across that too many people are preaching their scum hunting as the word of god and that nothing of real consequence has happened

yet

that doesn't come in the form of relational tells as data the be analyzed on a later game day. That's what day one is, 90% of the time. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't talk, and if I thought that I simply wouldn't post or talk about things ever day one, and I do believe solid town reads can be gained in situations like this, but quite often the people 'acting scummy' day one are simply pushed and the real scum lay back and let it happen, and that's where you start finding your real data, inside the people who aren't making

any

noise. Yes, this sounds very much like 'just lynch lurkers day 1', though I think my point is a little more elaborate, maybe something closer to 'lynch the people who don't stick out'.

Crummy argument? Maybe, but I then invite you to point me to a game where you successfully nailed scum day 1 and got them lynched day 1 using solid evidence.

Captain Ajax, Team Mafia 2012: The Scummies (Mini Theme)

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

Stop calling me a dude damnit.
I can tell you're not Arthur because he'd at least remember I was a pink lover. :V
It doesn't sit right when you spend one post talking about how the dinosaur is sniping then spend the next one trying to sell them your suspect.

I like how Hyperion came back to tell us he was going on vacation. Is a week really an okay amount of time to V/LA here? :s It's kind of important that he be around to answer to suspicion.

Sorry dood but this assassin choice is going nowhere and you're asleep anyways. B)

Unchoose

Choose: redFF

- Invisible Hydrahead

[Pandora]

Sorry for my absence; experienced unexpected LA. Will post soon.

-- Quiford

[Pandora]

After reading replacement posts carefully I see I'm actually voting for Shinori, not greenknight. I do find it suspicious that greenknight, probably not realizing the wagon isn't on him, immediately hops onto what looks like his counterwagon and Mr Popular Choose. To Shinori I suggest he look for himself to see why people are voting Minimum so he can make an informed decision of his own. There are five people waiting to hear what you have to say, boy.

redFF has been back for two days and posted all of one question to Starbuck that sounds like a theory question. How is the answer indicative of town or scum, especially considering she wanted to choose herself?

The choose wagon on the other Shadow1 has struck me this entire time of sounding like a policy lynch on someone who is effectively trolling the thread. I've honestly felt the same way as him more then a few times, with all the loud noises from 'pro players' it's hard to imagine what you say early matters. I'd rather put suspicion on someone who is quietly doing nothing then someone who is telling you where he's coming from.

Sala's post have been bugging me

more then usual

because he's gone on a defensive streak. You have four named scum suspects but you've spent more time arguing (and accusing?) MoI then you've spent on the four of them. Why do you think Shadow1 is scum? I don't know what #433 is refering to, but it gives the impression he's a scum suspect because he's watching you.

BV, what do you want from me? I alreaddy gave out reads and the like.

Besides this sounding petulant, the answer is probably actual reasoning behind the reads, which you lack, combined with pursuing them in a way that's convincing that you're looking for scum.

Ok, I see where you are going with this, but I must ask, why must I be obvscum? What if I am just town trying to play with the big boys

and failing either way he plays

.

Also less defending yourself in a way where you sounds like Oliver Twist begging for more cred from Headmaster MoI.

- Shadoweh

[Pandora]

GK: I'm saying you would have thought you had a reason to want the 'pro-town' bandwagoning to have a bigger target then you. Since MoI's 125 is also about dubious choosing choices (and admittedly includes the line that threw me off about Minimum in the first place), both your votes seem to be about the same thing. What do you think about the amount of people that jumped on Feysal for his 'scumslip'?

[Pandora]

GK: Fair enough. Looking back on it, the 'situation' Snowstorm is obviously talking about is being questioned over where his vote is. He explains as much right after, that he uses it to generate reads. It's the only part of Snowstorm's posts that Feysal points out as suspicious, so.. Also, this.

As for Starbuck, I don't think much of her claim or her Choosing herself. That is the kind of move I could see coming from inexperienced scum under pressure, as a last ditch effort. Her posts are still almost exclusively defensive, and her thought process as mysterious as ever. At the very least I would want to see her start posting something not related to how to use Choices, but I don't think I want her alive in endgame either way.

I can't speak for how experienced Starbuck is (She doesn't seem experienced?) but this was all early early Day 1, so isn't it early to be talking about last ditch efforts? She's been defensive, but most of that was trying to explain her thought processes to people. It makes it sound damned if you do, damned if you don't. Ugh now I'm talking myself into this aaaaaaa. At least I feel better about GK for now.

To be fair to Feysal though Starbuck has literally been doing nothing for awhile with double 'gonna get to it later' posts.

This multiball argument is weird. I think Edd has the right of it but it's kind of like saying 'scum are known for lurking more then town'.

- Apparently Benmage thinks of me when he thinks of cute Shadows! :D

[Pandora]

So did you like
read anyone else in the thread
because it almost looks like you only read the easy people
You're not an easy boy are you Shinori?

[Pandora]

I'm getting mad. I feel like I could make a statement and copy/paste it every 24 hours and this could be my Day 1 contribution:

Shinori and redFF: still doing nothing. Votes plz.
At least Shinori is answering my questions, even if it's to say he doesn't have time to read (so why did you /in?) Look, what I want isn't that complicated. Form your own opinions and tell us what they are. Make an informed decision based on all the choices, not just by reading the two most unpopular people. It's not hard to find something wrong with their posts when that something has been pointed out five hundred billion times.

Actually, I can ask you something, your choice on Feysal is because it's not Shadow1, because he's scummy but his shots are bad? If so, what do you think of Stefan's suggestion to switch the Minimum/Shadow1 vote/choose wagons around? I'm wondering if people on those wagons have considered that might be a good idea.

omg a puppy! Not-Tierce defending town reads is a given. I think I read somewhere you were trying to get rid of that habit though? Blood for the Blood God or something. Trying to reason out MoS seems pointless, he seems to play exactly the same as town and scum to me.

[Pandora]

CAN MY SUSPECTS PLEASE STOP REPLACING OUT
FUCK

At this point I don't care where the votes are coming from, red side black side, but one suspect has nothing on the redside and a nice vote train on the black side so.

- ANONYHEAD

[Pandora]

Sala: If you think MoI is scum then choose him. Who cares if he would shoot you if you catch a scumbag?

[Pandora]

You shouldn't act like VI is a prestigeous title. >_> Why did you label that as a case when it's clearly whatever the opposite of a case is?

So despite redFF morphing into a hellcat and there being quite a few people agreeing in the scuminess, I've been left stranded as usual. Whatever, I don't even care anymore. Since none of you are going to listen to me I'm going to blatantly sheep the only person who matters.

##Unchoose
##Choose: greenknight

On the other hand this Shinori wagon disintegrating is depressing. Looking back at the current voters, Beyond Staeg's vote he never mentions HyperShinori again. He's also still on his original choose on Starbuck.

Droopy dog

Molla isn't much better. asdfkg Edd does the same thing am I the only person on this wagon actually reading the fucking posts of the person I'm voting for instead of getting comfy while having wall arguments with everyone else? No wonder this isn't happening. If someone were to put a gun to my head right now and make me choose I'd go for SnowStorm but I was wondering if maybe the multiple people who mentioned HyperShinori looks scummy could look at him and vote him for being scum? -.-

I also pass the motion that talking about what a bad player MoI is should be stricken from the conversation as A) He scared the crap out of me as scum B) If he was that terrible he wouldn't get killed so often and C) We're like 20 pages past policy lynches mattering. He'll probably just catch a bad case of MoI to the face anyways.

- Totes Quilford. No one will ever be able to tell if it's not, rite?

[Pandora]

and yes, I'm aware I'm joining two of the bigger wagons. It's not my fault they got caught before I joined.

Jal (2) - SnowStorm, Dolorous Edd

Uh. Sensitive much?

And how can you think Not-Tierce is inherently scummy. I cannot fathom the universe you live in.

[Pandora]

I am such a terrible person and Shadoweh hates me but I will have a post in 48 hours or so, felt like it would be a good idea to go over our townreads.

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

The selfvote from MoI and the sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)

What's this? You like my Self-Vote while not liking Benmage's first two posts which also contain a post 1 Self-Vote?

I think the real problem with those few sentences lies here:

The selfvote from MoI and the sarcasm from shadow seem to show more of a town mindset, scum generally don't play that loosely. (at least from my experience)

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

I really don't see how that game is any different from Salamance every other time. Including here. Two more Gonna Get To It posts say this wagon is DEAD ENDing so

##Vote: Snowstorm

Votewise it seems like people are still fooling around. As far as I've been able to gauge it's getting close to consolidation time for you weird people. Stop making one-off votes unless you really think you can aowkr at driving a wagon.

- Shadofuweh

[Pandora]

And yet I know it's not Christmas and no one is going to get me that Edd wagon I wanted. At least beat each other into submission until you read your own posts, it seems like every time the Alek head jumps in (I think it's the Alek one) he speeds to a new Vote/Choose with nothing to back it up.

Don't worry Molla if they catch onto us I'll just protex you with my body again. /o/

Edit: Miss Stark stop flirting with Mr. Molla he's already taken. If you think he's testing you then he's probably not scum to you, why would scum need to test your reaction?

[Pandora]

I have honestly never seen anyone do that to you. I've seen people who honestly believed you had ill intentions accuse you of being scum, though their ability to read you was an entirely different matter. How exactly does pissing you off further BBmolla's scum agenda, which is usually to lurk out talking to people?

And stop cutting me -.- It is like impossible to get a post out here

[Pandora]

I'm probably the wrong person to ask, I kind of thought she was town in Otherworld. I don't think she's done anything scummy though.

[Pandora]

Her having this argument with you reads pretty genuine actually. Have you ever argued with her in a mafia before? >.> I don't mean this offensively, Tammy, but taking an attack on alignment as a personal assault is the part you should try to stop. You should trust the people you play with to be playing mafia with you, not prod-with-a-stick-until-rages-happen.

[Pandora]

It's the posts like kortuls that make it feel uneasy, with hypocritical points like this:

His latest posts finally show some halfhearted scumhunting, mostly on those who vote him. But with three scum reads (Jal, bvoigt and Shinori), he uses only his vote, even though he thinks that choosing should be used as a second lynch.

*looks at blank space where kortul's choose should be*
I don't see Yet Another Wagon picking up there right now but..

Actually I can't believe we're 38 pages in and there are still people not votechoosing. If all the Nots on the vote and choose counts could stop farting around and pick someone that would be super. Benmage this means you, you're right bloody here right now.

- Shadowicus

[Pandora]

>.> i don't think they have the First Amendment in Canada..

I glanced over here and saw 'claim'. Well shit. Tierce, why is MoS the one talking sense here? We're anticipating a ton of deaths tonight and the nights after. Can we try to make it a choice instead of putting up 'comf town shoot here' signs?

bvoight wagon seems like it would just be a deadline rush. I've never had good luck with these but ugh I don't want to run Salamance up either. I hate everything. -_-

##Unvote
##Vote: bvoight

I also put forth the suggestion that if people want to start up practically void wagons that there's a cat right there begging for votes.

[Pandora]

Almost completed my giant reads list of doom, gonna post it tomorrow fo sho.

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

Feysal, I think everyone other then you stopped caring about Starbuck twenty pages ago. You're about to get a chance to bloody shoot her if you're so convinced that you can't present an opinion on what we're actually talking about in the future of page 45. Quilford still thinks you're a scumbag and nothing makes me agree more then blanket unvotes and a case that you know no one gives a hell about right now. Who out of the actually possible people do you want to vote and choose? Choose being the big one for you since you gonna die right now.

bvoight: Speaking of buzzwords. How does that explanation about how Feysal's case is bad make him scum? What about DCL's post gives you scumvibes? You're making people fill in the blanks for you.

I expect Salatown to screw up just as much as Salascum personally.

[Pandora]

Would anyone else like to replace out at deadline? >.>;
You know, my experience in GvE suggests we should just lynch the replacements indiscriminately.

[Pandora]

CHOOSE: Feysal

--

I'm trying to start to consolidate my individual reads, so here's a list of 'em. Might pester Shadoweh into doing one too.

TOWN:

26) SnowStorm

-- Feel his mason claim is legit.

2) Lyanna Stark (Tammy)

-- I think I tend to read Tammy as town regardless of alignment, but I'm pretty confident this time round that she is.

3) Mockingjaye

-- Posts seem generally solid. It's probably because she hasn't posted much, but I wasn't really aware of her existence until I ISO'd her recently (thought she had been replaced/was replacing out, or something.)

4) Dolorous Edd (Ser Arthur Dayne/bodean44)

-- Clear thought processes. I don't know why people hate hydra dissonance so much, it makes it pretty easy to get a read.

5) Staeg

-- You can trust me on this.

6) Tyene Sand (Tierce)

-- Kinda meh on her through the early game, townieness really started to kick in around post #554, imo.

Petyr Baelish

7) kortul

-- Regfan's convinced me here.

12) hasdgfas (now Albert B. Rampage)

-- Generally good posting, liked that he picked up on a post I felt (only after he pointed it out) was flawed in extremely subtle ways. When someone does that it always gives me a townread. I dunno. No read on ABR yet.

14) Regfan

-- Was very wary of him at the start of the game, suspicion has since faded and I feel pretty confident in my read here.

19) Mastermind of Sin

-- His posts feel barren, but ~~~events~~~ make me think he's town.

20) Plessiezarus (Zar/Plessiez)

-- see Dolorous Edd, minus the hydra dissonance and plus townpoints for good posts.

27) Jal

-- Feels town, especially when discussing previous games. Wasn't really expecting much on ISO but this read is surprisingly strong.

MEH:

1) Minimum (Mina/CES)

-- CES side of the hydra reads town, Mina side of the hydra reads scum.

9) MagnaofIllusion

-- This is weird. I like to think I can read MoI pretty well, but in my eyes he has such little presence this game that it's hard for me to discern his alignment at all.

10) Plum's Yo Mamma

-- It's not a strong conviction, but I don't like the way they pushed greenknight and especially their last few posts. Everything else seems pretty OK, it's just this one thing.

13) Shadow1psc

-- Ambivalent. Feel like I should feel strongly either way, but I don't.

pappums rat

15) Amrun (now Seraphim)

-- Lack of content.

sword of omens

16) greenknight

-- Can't read him that well; picking up scummy and townie stuff (last sentence in #740 gives me a pretty powerful town vibe, but I can't bring myself to trust it). Was content with Shadoweh's choose on him until recently.

24) Starbuck

-- Didn't really get all the early game kerfuffle, finding it hard to get a read off what she's posted so far.

25) BBmolla

-- Don't understand why he was labeled obvtown for his reaction test, doesn't seem to fit what I remember of his town play (which, admittedly, is pretty old). Feel like he should have more presence than he does. I'm pretty sure Shadoweh shares my views here.

SCUM:

21) Feysal

-- Basically all the posts where he's discussing Multiballgate are scummy. Most of his other posts seem to consist of 30% weak meta-based assertions, 40% self-explanation, 20% answering questions and 10% actual scumhunting. And then you have this shocker of a post in which Feysal says 'I only ever get accused of having inside information as town ... I have never displayed having inside information as scum' (paraphrased) -- well, firstly it depends on the people you're playing with, and secondly, it's called a 'slip' because you make it unconsciously. The way you seemed to assume it was multiball in #47 seems to me very, very much like an unconscious act.

Hyperion

8) Shinori

-- Same recount vs. analysis problem that kortul had, but his predecessor was terrible as well. I do not like the fact that he decided to start hydraing with a buddy part way through the game one bit.

redFF

11) DCLXVI

-- Shadoweh doesn't like him and I can see where she's coming from. I find redFF's replacing out suspect.

17) Bvoigt

-- His catch-up doesn't feel particularly genuine and I like and appreciate the recent points and subsequent wagon springing up on him.

18) Benmage

-- Do not like. Doesn't match my past experiences with him, feels like he's playing to the crowd, think he could be bussing redFF/DCLXVI. Need to talk about this with Shadoweh because she disagreed here iirc.

23) Salamence20 (now Iecerint?)

-- Read has degraded from iffy a la post #343 to downright scum. Reads feel parroted. Fluffy posts. Too defensive. His content on MoS is pure shit. I'm usually not good at distinguishing newbscum from newbtown but I think I'm on the mark here. Shadoweh disagrees, obviously. >_<

28) StefanB

-- It's hard to pinpoint exactly what's wrong with his posting, but something's definitely awry. My #343 contains a bit about him when I address Regfan and I couldn't really put it into words that well back then, either. But I think he's scum.

No particular order.

-- Quilford

FUUUUUUUUUUUU. AND I WAS DOING SO WELL.

-- QUILFORD ARGH

~Duplicate deleted

[Pandora]

;-;

[Pandora]

If everyone else has stopped caring about obvscum, the shame is entirely theirs. And I'm not going to blindly slap my vote and choice on the largest wagons, particularly now that we got an extension. It is because people have done that that there is a wagon on me.

You know, despite you pretty much doing the blindly slap choose on biggest wagon other then you, the question I asked was "Who out of the actually possible people do you want to vote and choose?" not "Just read the biggest wagons and vote them please." As for the blanket dismissal of everyone choosing you, the majority of people on you are on you because they think you're scummy. The way you're not putting any effort to keep up with the game is scummy. It's like this is one big :effort: ball to you.

Your case on greenknight:
The first question was an answer to why he would bandwagon. Explaining that he thinks it's protown is the point of the statement, so.. yeah.
The second point is super-defensive. It did look like you were attacking Starbuck for her choose strategy. Saying you meant something else later doesn't retcon what you did earlier. The first point in the post you voted in is a theory disagreement The second point was 'not wanting to choose scum', which considering she was choosing herself, is more theory disagreements. The fact that you're misrepresenting your closest wagon rival and choosing him over it is simply awful.

Benmage: Shadow1 is prob-town so I'd prefer not-a-wagon there over wagon.

[Pandora]

Read again what you wrote there. Then slap your palm to your face after you see it. If you did not mean the largest wagons, who did you mean with possible people? Someone like kortul? No thanks, my first thought when reading about that supposed slip was that he had read Shadow in isolation and the context of the quote had escaped him.

You know, just saying something like that makes what you're thinking make more sense. (The part about kortul and understanding why you don't want to vote him, not the other part). It actually makes you sound like you're reading. By possible people I meant anyone that a large number of people have expressed willingness to vote, like Hellcat, Shadow1, Sapohydrathing..

I've never seen Rain Man so I have no idea what that means. :? I'm sorry if it might hurt your feelings but I would really like you to do something townie so I can point to something as a reason to move my choice back.

- Movies suck and I hate watching them

[Pandora]

Oh man are we actually doing it? Are we making it hapen?

CHOOSE: DLCXVI

Let's save Faraday some of them replaccement blues! HAHA QUILFORD THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR SLEEPING

Re: Sshadow1 asfdgk but he's TOWN. He has the attitude, it just doesn't feel right!

[Pandora]

Did you seriously google it >_>
It means I am bashing my hands on the keyboard hitting random letters out of frustration for not being able to explain FEELINGS

[Pandora]

So I guess we're lynching Shadow1 then. ._. If the people on Sapo have a moment of clarity and would like to vote someone who might be town or scum instead of someone who definitely is town being lynched for being dum I'll still be over here then.

I'm really.. surprised the DCL wagon grew so fast. I'm just going to bury my head in the saand and hope that it's not as bad as Shadow1wagon is to me.

I guess it helps that the only thing either of them has posted lately is a prod! If either of you dumbasses be townin' at least show up to frickin claim for us?

- I've never had people reduce my name to Eh before..

[Pandora]

People who have experience with DCL from just ended games like Otherworld, does he seem like the kind of townie that would jump up as if enlightened that Regfan (someone who is not getting lynched today) is scum because he 'wouldn't have voted him if he'd read his meta'?

Hellcat you do know a flashwagon on Regfan with votes wouldn't unchoose you right >_>

Torture cop sounds like a cool role. If there's anything multiball games have taught me it's that scum roles tend to be bland and town roles tend to be really cool. Can we not lynch the idiot town now please

[Pandora]

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

Would anyone else like to claim today? Should we be getting out the popcorn and starting up a fucking massclaim in the last few hours? How about instead you suck on a sock and just vote.

[Pandora]

This might sound dumb to you all, but isn't Tyrion the little Lannister dwarf? How is that an anti-Lannister scum thing?

[Pandora]

Oh, okay, so Tyrion basically goes Rogue later. (I've only seen the first episode okay leave me alone)
What PluMomma said. The last few days have reminded me of my 72 hours offsite games at the last hour mark just throwing votes around in a panic. I guess I don't see a reason not to lynch Stefan but it seems like people are just being randomly run up until we hit VT's to lynch.

[Pandora]

UNVOTE: bvoigt
VOTE: StefanB

The idea of no lynching Day 1 with this many players is causing me physical pain. Three more, please.

[Pandora]

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

We should start a quickwagon on them! That will ensue we get a lynch today. (Minimum and MoS are probably not going to listen since they think this is a good idea. Anyone not voting Stef is pursuing the no-lynch agenda right now)
- Not Quilford

[Pandora]

I have been super busy all day and will be posting later tonight. I just wanted to drop in for a WHOOHOO with some party favors.
And note that bvoight is probably scum. I was going to say it was because he obviously didn't kill anyone last night but being blocked and a liar works.
Re Jailkeeping tonight I guess it depends on if you want to clear someone or doc someone. We can figure out who was blocked by outting people's choices tomorrow.

You know bragging is bad and you shouldn'twhoamIkidding *h5 Not Tierce*

also stop cutting me

[Pandora]

so when I said 'I will post tonight' I meant 'will be drafted to test a homebrew system till six am and forget what life is'. They're very easy to confuse with each other. At least my character looks spiffy!

I just got some clarification from Faraday that everyones jailkeeping votes will be made public tomorrow in a vote count of a sort so instead of having us all arrange to vote 2-3 players that are fairly universal town-reads I think it's flat out better for everyone to just decide their jailkeeper vote privately, this way we can base reads of it later and it means that scum have very little information to work with when factoring in kills or who sends in the kills.

So I have a neat question here, why the hell would you ask this and why would you tell everyone about it if it's true? This is not the kind of information town should be looking for. Anyone asking for clarification about if their jail choice is going to be outted should be kicked in the balls.
(I see Edd said the same thing. Too little too late I guess)

Re: Mason Deaths, Tierce has a good point about scum possibly not being worried at all. I remember someone I played with making weird kills for the sake of being weird though. They could just be killing for the sake of making people pull their hair out and doubt their reads.

Tammy: I doubt Feysal is sccum with DCL, they were opposing wagons on the same spectrum. His Jal vote is also 'because sheep'. I don't think he would randomly hop onto his scumpartner? If there's anything I'd call suspicious about that post it's that he mentions Benmage is bad but forgets to put him anywhere on his read spectrum. His vote for Regfan is stupid and sounds like 'you read my meta wrong how dare you'. He does mention the Pleiss hydra as being scum as an afterthought.

You are also probably not scum with him. :p

I disagree with Zdenek pointing fingers at Tyrene but everything else he says is sound. If bvoight is scum here's something else for thought:

So I kind of still want to lynch bvoigt, but if Shadow uses his role on him tonight, he'll know if the claim is true and he'll also block him. That could save us from lynching an innocent bvoigt or from an evil role use. I don't know who else I'd lynch though. Maybe Shinori or Feysal.

I don't understand why you (or MoI, for that matter) thinks this is the best way to go. Vig is already a provable role. We'll likely know if bvoigt is lying or not tomorrow, if he uses his kill. If Shadow blocks him, then we'll only know that Shadow

claims that

bvoigt is a Vig. And if bvoigt is a (town-aligned) Vig, we'll have missed out on a chance to shoot scum.

I really don't want to test one claim I doubt by having to rely on the word of a second player whose claim I'm also not inclined to believe.

Have you commented on Shadow's claim yet? Oh, right, no. Have you commented on

anything

since your alleged Mason partner claimed? Any thoughts on the people who were voting for him? Why has the fact you've (apparently) stopped hiding your role made you

even less talkative or helpful

?

~ Pless

Pless tried to direct Shadow1 away from jailkeeping bvoight while disbelieving Shadow1 and both the mason's claims. He's attacking Tierce for 'something she expected to happen' (When if she were scum she'd be the only one who knows what happened last night?) and commenting generally on hydra dissonance is a waste of time.

Which hydras do you currently have a problem with?

Sapo: He wasn't even Tyrion in the first place so who the fuck cares anymore about whether it was a real fake scum town claim?

- Shadowmeh

[Pandora]

I also doubt that Feysal is scum with him, but I'm a bit wary of basing it on because they were opposing wagons. (Remember heterosexual revolution?)

Absolutely not. I'm pretty sure that game never happened. My therapist tells me so. Regardless the condition you tried to imitate is a towntell for a reason. I think you also believe scum don't want to bus during multiball? I can't remember if you were scum when you said that though.

I supose Jal wasn't ever in real danger. I just don't think it's the first instinct of scum to hug their buddies.

- Not hydraing with a crazy poisoner this game

[Pandora]

The longer this day goes on the more of my face is getting stuck in a huge facepalm. At least there's good news and bad news this time. I'm not promising to jail anyone in public. Although it wouldn't be hard to guess who I'd pick.

[Pandora]

Zdenek, Tyrene. You're both pretty. There are so many scummier things to hit. It's nice to know what the ownage feels like from the other side instead of being the scum-replacee into town ownage.

[Pandora]

##Vote: Bvoight

[Pandora]

This would be a huge headache prod dodge but since Pleiss asked:
I'm not sure what you mean by the change in reads between those posts. The only comment I made about Stefan between that was that I didn't see a reason not to lynch him but it seemed like people were just being run up. Someone suggested that he wasn't native english and I was starting to suspect the reason Quilford hated his words was really a GUT =D thing. I feel absolutely no remorse for not engaging in the vote hullapalooza when the vote subject hadn't actually given us a reason to get off him. I especially don't regret on sitting there until he claimed something he couldn't back up. B|

- zzzzzzzzzeh

[Pandora]

I've sent my jailkeep vote in.

[Pandora]

HI IT'S MY BIRTHDAY
I'M NOT READING MAFIA TODAY BECAUSE FUCK YOU
WHY IS THIS DAY NOT OVER YET
FUCK YEAH BACARDI AND ME ARE HAVING AN ~*~ADVENTURE~*~

##UNVOTE

FOR MIEN FURHERESS

[Pandora]

5) Staeg

...

POE here. People I think are town are in green. Please lynch Feysal at some point, and don't give MOI a free pass.

It all fits!

VOTE: Staeg

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

Also, Saporerint should die via the Trial and I want MoI to be godhanded.

-- Quilford

[Pandora]

Uhm. With bvoight being roleblocked scum, and two other kills against masons, aren't all the scumkills accounted for?

Having reread what Godhand actually does, I mostly agree with MoI. MoI, Mockingjaye, Plum Momma, Maguaslot, Benmage, MoS and Minimum ( :P ) would be my pics. If I were handing indescriminantly this moment I'd go with Minimum just to clear the air and because I don't think she's guilty anymore but people keep turning back to her. If I were aiming for the sake of a guilty I'd probably look at Feysal, but I don't think I want him alive that long. I seriously feel like he's taken a dive off of existence plane.

Hooo shit I was about to unvote Staeg because he sounded like he was softclaiming doc. Shinori, are you sure he performed an investigative role? Stop cutting me and seems so. Well then! CHOO CHOO

Is there a reason we're waiting to hurt Sapo or
(I know we're waiting for him to claim, it still feels like wasted time. :cool: )

- Shadoweh feelin a little better after some good rest and hot coco :D

[Pandora]

In fact he kills both Little/Big Walder from memory. Would make sense as a Stannis alignment rolecop.

That's pretty funny flavorwise. What would a Frey-cop do? Staeg tell what a Frey-cop is

Also, Re: Scumhunter. Is.. is that his thing? Is he seriously going to do that the whole game? How do you consider these people mafia players what is wrong with you people

- Shadowehzzzzz

[Pandora]

I think it's possible and it just makes more reason to hunt him down. The Freys were the mason duo. Unless copping to check if someone is a mason is a town power around here? :roll:

- Napdoweh

[Pandora]

[quote="In post 2042, MagnaofIllusion"]
Shadoweh are you on crack? I ask because this makes no sense from someone not chemically altered.[/url]
I feel better everytime someone asks me that. Saying they would have to be collectively stupid doesn't change how it looks. There was an abnormal kill, that incidentally was shown with the person chosen, and there was another kill on the second mason. I mean it's not confirmed but when it looks like a spade and feels like a spade..

- Needsmorenapdohweh

[Pandora]

Magna: Nevermind, it made sense to me at the time okay

HURT: Saporient

4-4 seems like a reasonable assumption for the scum groups. Even if Aegon really is separated, that just means the Chrono Trigger analogy is more apt (in which one side had 2 traitors) and I don't see any sign we have more power here than in CT (and the real problem with 5-5 is really just the sheer number of scum to get through; maybe if we had more mechanics like D1's where we get to kill extra people but I don't expect that to recur.)

I thought the Aegon seperated thing meant there are two scum factions, Aegon and Stannis. What the hell is this about traitors now? From the sounds of things the story Aegon and Stannis were working together too as Stark huggers.

Regfan: I think you're the only one it makes sense to. From a gameplay standpoint it doesn't make sense. Staeg didn't express scumreads of you, he expressed disagreement with your reads on people like Kortul and Shadow1. The first one notwithstanding (and looking morre and more correct by the day), the second one was shown as a good read on that way. He also..

I want kortul dead so bad ;_;
Shadow, re-read your ability and tell me if what you posted in-thread is accurate. I may or may not be seeing something that doesn't check out.

And this disappeared pretty quickly. Why wasn't he looking at people he suspected, like kortul and Saporeint? Also there's this:

welllll thennn

unvote
Vote: bvoight

tbqh, I think that the claim makes bvoight MORE likely to be scum, but vigs can prove themselves and are counterclaimed with bullets etcetc

He seems to have known where his vote should have been to me. Points more towards a Staeg x bvoight BFF team of hugs and slaughtering puppies.

- Shadoweh got the tags right after five tries! \o/

[Pandora]

Holy shit apparently Staeg was hammered before I looked last. It's okay though since his lynch-later list includes Edd? More important things:

Jal is hilarious and in my opinion not scum. I don't think scum would have gotten into a thurough, passionate angry argument with someone they thought was a town vigilante. It's an argument that viscerally Jal can't win and is already getting hueg negative attention. More importantly in the earlier parts it seemed like Jal had forgotten they were arguing with likely confirmed town and hadn't thought about it until they were asked. I don't think scum can forget about HUEG THREATS.

Zdenek: If you're still like this tomorrow I'm going to start drawing pictures of you as a toy train trying to run over Tyrene's foot. I will admit that scum are more likely to catch their partner's scumslips, but this is irrelevant since Tyrene is townie obvtown.

I'd worry about it if you drop dead, Tyrene is kind of a chicken if I remember correctly?

Shinori: It's possible he's red scum. Pretty sure this is gonna be one of those problems that take care of themselves. Not worth more words then that.

This day has been awkward. It wasn't exactly a guilty result but no one besides Staeg was a target today. I keep meaning to write something up about MJaye and getting interupted. I.O.U. 1 case signed Pandy cashable tomorrow

when

if alive tomorrow.

- Shadoweh

[Pandora]

red = yellow why do I keep thinking I'm still in Experimental

- Shadoweh is colorblind

[Pandora]

I don't remember Minimum claiming an investigative role either. I see someone already cleared it up though.
Re: greenknight, I vaguely recall him looking like the best of the options at the time.

Greyscaling a PR sounds.. counterproductive. Hah, you can't kill them, we killed them first! Like the Death Note movie. We should just act like this is a regular lynch. I don't think there are any easy targets left. I think Anxiety trying to get us to murder Shinori is slightly scummy though.

Oh my god please stop this is the dumbest thing.

[Pandora]

Cruising through MockingJaye's posts but first I wanna ask a simple question.

Shinori gets one post to explain himself.

Why?

[Pandora]

Eh for the sake of not arguing someone else's defense I'll wait for Shinori to answer the main questions (Which seem to be 'why did he think Staeg being a rolecop implies bvoight town and why he didn't claim his role name). I think since it came after Staeg's hammer it looks more like lining up lynches in a Staeg was town therefore Shinori must be a scum kind of way.

[Pandora]

- All of these are Shadoweh for the Attitude-impaired btw. Quilford had some emergency thingy come up so unless it's signed by him it's probably me

[Pandora]

This is irritating. Everytime I go to make a MJaye case I get seriously distracted. Which usually means I don't actually think they're that bad and should look at something else. Oh well.

Shinori, did you at all take into account the fact that Staeg was claiming to be a cop that would find you into your decision?

<_< I'm right here reading leave me alone.

[Pandora]

Well, the original 'townie reason' people laid off of Shinori was because he was inviting a bad hydra partner. Note that this uh.. never happened. I'm pretty sure he never asked for approval or made a hydra account for it at this point. But every step of the way his mistakes scream more of incompetene then scumminess.

Wwith MJaye it's more like.. well it's the same problem I have with Feysal actually. I can't remember anything they do, they're just THERE. Feysal is much more distracting to me because his last post is another fucking blurb on Starbuck/Scumhunter. How do you go four days without ever changing your suspect?! (Also Scumhunter strikes me as a townie fish in high waters so there's that too.)

[Pandora]

So I thought I'd go back and see why Shinori would check on Tierce, ignoring for a moment my heated rage for such a stupid choice. Actually I thought I'd go back to see who Shinori thinks is scum, but the answer to that seems to be NO-ONE. His scum reads for the last three days besides Staeg have only been Bvoight and SalaSaposcum for (insert reason here). He never actually gave a reason why they were scummy. He was just like 'totes scummy, let me on there.' Also his response to Sapo's slip:

Yeah why was that posted here? >.>"

There's a steaming lack of SUSPICION here.

Going back to Day 1 where actual opinions exist, he gave reasons why Minimum uhm.. was 'either town or scum', and why Shadow was 'decently scummy' in a post that ends with a choose on Feysal. His 'case on Snowstorm' is just a comment on a votepark (almost like the early rvs stuff didn't matter :o ) and 'he said some stuff and that's scummy'. The difference in detail between reads is rather striking.

These are the last actual reads he's ever given.

For what it matters without going into detail.

Scum reads on minimum, Bvo, shadow, snowstorm
Town reads on, Feysal, Lyanna, Starbuck, Regfan, MoI, Benmage, Hasdgfas, Staeg, Teirce, plumsyomamma.
Null on everyone else for the most part, I might be leaning one way or the other on their alignment but for the most part null.

Also I asked the mod and he has given me permission to do this so I'm starting it here, me and a friend are going to start hydraing from this account. He doesn't play here so you wouldn't know him, but he is "Elie" and I am "Shino/ri".

So yeah, I can see why someone would think you'd pick Minimum over anyone. Why you would pick Tierce is beyond me. Why you wouldn't mention you were a Frey would be explainable if you aren't actually a Frey and you only pulled up your fakeclaim now. It would also explain your weird squiggly behaviour around Sapo and Bvoight. I think being allied with the other team is less likely just due to no interaction, but I will also note that there's no mention of Hellcat in Shinori's ISO at all. He was always quietly in support of a Feysal choose.

I've been thinking what kortul said for awhile, about scum not wanting to out themselves during multiball because it makes you into a lovely shootface delight. I'm postulating that we're missing something. It's not much of a risk to out yourself as a half-tracker if you're going to use it as an excuse to do nothing, and it's much less of a risk if you can't/want to die. I'm tired of waiting for things to 'resolve themselves'. They obviously aren't. It's up to us to actually Do Something, starting with kicking out the thoughtless void.

##Vote: Shinori

Cut: Stictly speaking, as much as Miss Sand is the very best like no one ever was I wouldn't say she's being that dangerous right now, being on vacation and all. And as Polite Mafia showed the most likely person to pick up a scumslip is scum so etc. It's been four days and we're still barely through the chaf of power roles dying before 'obvtowns'. Maybe you should start arguing with her again >.>

[Pandora]

As far as I understand, Greyscale isn't something seperate, this lynch is greyscaled instead of immediately lynching. So in effect voting for someone is voting for Greyscale? So yes. Let's do that thing with that place that time.

Cut:

Hey that post could have been anyone

I'd also point out that one team can't really go after the other on purpose. Are you implying I'm bitchy and argumentative? *me runs to whitewash Experimental Mafia*

[Pandora]

For the record I would also support an MJaye scaling if people sissy out of No-Content the Wonderdodger. I just can't put it into words. Maybe her avatar just looks creepy to me.

I didn't read that game too well so at least I won't hold it against you.

[Pandora]

Pandora, I can kind of understand what you mean about Shinori, his scumhunting has been weak and his lack of stating he was a Frey yesterday when people were suggesting that Staegs role was a mason hunter are both scummy but the same time what's the thought process as scum? Are you saying he found out that Staeg was an investigative role and thought he'd out it and get him lynched over it? Because I don't think that makes much sense as scum, makes more sense to 1) Shoot the investigative role 2) Stay quiet, talk with partners who would likely advice against it or 3) Do nothing. His Tierce investigation is....weird and bad but I don't think he'd know that he'd have to out alternate results as scum and then check such a bad target or have his partners let him do so. I think it's more likely he's just terrible. Either way not comfortable lynching him today.

Actually that only makes sense if you forget that that night one scum wasn't having the best time putting their shoot face on, and the next day there was a free prison day, and they had the jailer sitting on their face. He actually eliminated half of that when he convinced everyone to give him the jailkeep vote (because ~*~reasons~*~) then outted Staeg the next day in a way that made him look terrible despite, and I emphasize this, Having No Actual Evidence Of Wrongdoing. While having done nothing to look at his target or at anyone.

We also did this on a day where we had a free protect/cop combo that we could have used on the flipping cop who would have gotten a positive on Shinori himself! I feel really stupid right now, why did we even do that? With as little information as 'investigated someone' we should have just switched the lynches.

[Pandora]

Oh my goodness. No I mean I honestly generally I do avoid large games, this is the first game I've ever been in with this many players and I avoid it because I am kind of slow at processing things and stuff but yea, I'd say from your guys pov it looks bad and maybe I should replace out. Fffff. Reading the thread TONIGHT. If not I will post to ask for a replacement, you guys do deserve better for sure.

O_o

Oh my god did you just turn from a blatant asshole into British Governor Scum?

[Pandora]

Well if you look at what you just wrote, there isn't anything -bad- about anyone in there. You name 12 people you feel/have felt decent about. How do you feel about the rest?

Zdenek, Miss Stark doesn't seem to be on your scum list, so I have to ask, where are you going with this interogation? The point about Sapo's lie is probably still true since any competent team would have pointed out how dumb that self-watcher claim was. Really one has to wonder why they thought it was reasonable at all.

I'm holding my head in pain here. As much as it hurts me to say, I think even someone like Shinori would show a bit more worry when he's being pushed as a suspect instead of uh.. how would you describe that reaction.. yes. I really don't know what to do with people who are too oblivious to react under pressure. I'm also not sure where to go from here. Anxiety seems too much like 'the next scapegoat' at this point, because this town is seriously sinking into lazy lynch syndrome. I can't even sheep NotTierce because she's not doing anything. -_- It feels like there are alot of people who have gotten this far by promising content someday over the rainbow.

[Pandora]

If I said i was going to contribute lately that was a dirty lie I feel shit as shit
think everyone is overreacting to MoS's numbers though because they're the most anything he's said. omg a thing we can tear it appart and disagree with it etc

[Pandora]

I was in GvE too and I don't remember Feysal saying this much nothing.
Or prod dodging instead of posting.
Seems alot more like when I read Chrono Trigger and he was a useless spawn.

##Vote: Feysal

Anx: I know, I reread and changed my mind. Sorry we fought yo.

[Pandora]

Well just from the amount of death you're putting into the thread now you seem more townie then ever before. Apparently just being touched by Greyjoy makes you awesome? It's been hard to look at your posts and say anything besides 'I agree yo'. Either way you're at least not scum with someone so there's no reason not to take you at face value.

It's embarrassing actually that you're having to put that much effort into arguing that Starhunter isn't scum, this should have been an easy cleared up 3 days ago thing. Starbuck wasn't scum, Scumhunter isn't scum, and the only guy who holds that golden lynch apple to heart is Feysal. Everyone else is just voting with their annoyance. Seriously Feyal is a guy whose singular posts were something I liked to read for intelligent and insightful thoughts into the game and right now he's not just left behind, he's not even trying to change his point of view.

PEdit: That makes sense. Honestly, though, I doubt that will do anything with Feysal. I'd know, I've tried. :( This is a player who doesn't even defend himself much when being wagoned because he's always so freaking far behind and doesn't choose to ditch the older pages and deal with what's important

right now

--that lead to his lynch, as scum, in Chrono Trigger. (He might have been doomed by PoE anyway, but he was so far behind that by the time he got to posting he was hammered.)

So basically you're saying he's acting like his scum meta? :V

[Pandora]

He never started playing in the first place though. <_< It's just as likely he forgot isn't it? And I vaguely recall being in a Experimental game where Pine was town and a bad scummy evil person tried to push a lynch on him for lurking out.

Besides that Jal is pretty townie and it was a terrible vote in the first place. Small details.

[Pandora]

I thought I looked at this yesterday <_< I think I fell asleep mid-post. Oh god who the fuck are these people

[Pandora]

Okay, recap for myself
Thor = Jal who was obvtown, check
AurorusVox = MoS who was looking charttown, check
Timeater = The VT town slot check

I'm sorry was someone else claiming all the replacements were obvscum? Minimum you just don't give up do you? Speaking of naive where's your emotional partner or did she catch the same disaster in Dreamland that Quilly got steamrolled under?

You know who I didn't see in the middle of all those pages despite being at at least L-2 at some point? It starts with an

F

and ends with an

eysal

. Stop acting like goddamn schoolchildren and forgetting everything else about this game because a new gang showed up in town. Stop fucking around with your votes and get thhem right back on this wagon children or I will smack each of you with rulers.

[Pandora]

Catching up again. Shinori, if you think you should out it go on, it seems to be the general consensus. Tierce is not scum with DCL/Feysal wtf. Tierce is allergic to mentioning her scumbuddies in any of her posts and makes terrible cases based on activity. (Instead she made terrible defenses for scum based on activity but I forgive her :good: )

[Pandora]

So we've figured out that
- Scum probably didn't recruit Feysal
- The suspicion around Tierce is based on her talking like Feysal is a traitor.

Seems like it answers itself, not that it's what you two were arguing about. If Tierce had really thought Feysal was her buddy he would've been on their side already.

[Pandora]

@Pandora: Who is the most town in your eyes?

Have you like not read a thing I've said about Tyrene or do you need a picture with one of those #1 fingers? I can whip one up reel quick.
Other then that Regfan has been the one keeping the game going, Starbuck's slot is still derptown and at least half not-scum because of lolFeysal, and kortul is approaching Regfan's level of intellectually trying to dissect the game down. I thought Jal's slot was town but it seems like Thor fell asleep at the helm. :V

[Pandora]

Depressingly I haven't heard from Quilford since sometime in the end of September. >_> I'm a little miffed since I only joined because he wanted to hydra and it seemed like fun, but personal stuff catches up with you I guess. I mentioned it actually, and he's not getting prods because he's indefinitely V/LA. I could probably just take over the slot entirely but this little fluffy guy is so kyoot!

Investingating Regfan's name when Regfan's name was semi-cleared by Staeg seems like a waste but eh.

[Pandora]

Which I thought was obvious since you were questioning me, but hey if someone else wants to confess in a panic go ahead. :V Guilty consciences do funny things to people.
Not that it means much. My role is the opposite of yours and has instilled much swearing at Faraday for giving me something I had spent a mafia game making fun of just before this one started, as if karma thought giving me the most useless thing ever was funny. Though I guess at least I'm not a named townie like Staeg effectively was.

Magua: Don't traitors normally know who their partners are, but the partners don't know about the traitor? That's how it's worked in every game I've ever played with a traitor in it. Regardless of that Starbuck is town for being an easy target with bouts of suicide.

[Pandora]

Hold on I'm looking for all my shitty results.

Night 1: No one targetted Lyanna Stark
Night 2: Shadow1 was targetted by a kill! Man I'm good at this!
Night 3: Shinori was targetted by nothing! \o/
Night 4: Minimum was targetted by a 'other' action. What the fuck is an 'other' action?

Voyeur is the most terrible role ever and I have no idea how it could be productive, beyond being able to say hi I am out there!

[Pandora]

I think it was Tammy actually. What else would you label Motivator as? I don't know why she'd be motivating Minimum but etc.
i am going to fall asleep now because yes

[Pandora]

Also Pandora's claim totally fits with Faraday's hatred of watchers. Followers and Voyeurs are excellent alternatives to provide to your town players when the mod doesn't want that tracked-to-/watched-at-the-night-kill result.

Can you please tell me how this is an excellent alternative to anything. :| I'm with Regfan on how there is nothing it is good for.
Other action! :mad:

Why are you making a list. This place taught me popcorn instead of happy scum-favoring lists. WHY CAN YOU NOT POCORN LIKE NORMAL MAFIANS.

[Pandora]

We've proven that AV can't read, but can someone point to where this is him being caught? This argument seems kind of overblown and the two lists have confused me before too. I think AV should just keep reading and catch up, even if he does get lynched he can still gives us opinionz about what he thinks. Maybe he'll remember how to sound townie while he's reading. :D

##Vote: Thor665

[Pandora]

I will be pretty depressed if he is scum. :/ No one has the decency to be bumbling confused town in this game.

OH MY GOD WHO IS THAT OTHER PERSON GET OUT OF HERE WITCH

[Pandora]

Because he's starting to seem more like 'effort giving up' then 'I am making a genuine effort to catch up'. I'm not going to stalk his activity but he hasn't even said which part of his catchup led him to a vote on Minimum. :/ So less not batting an eye and more oh great that post looks accurate.

[Pandora]

Tierce are you seriously going to come after me for being able to tell the difference between your obv-scum self that didn't know how to make a case besides 'timelines' and your current self that isn't shy to be the driving force behind wagons (and actually catch scum with them?). Was I suposed to be baited by you bringing up active times? You were avoiding using them against Feysal, who from a scum you's perspective should have been an excellent mislynch for the same reasoning. If anything weirded me out about you it wasn't that post, it was the one about what a cute furry townie force I am. Which -really- doesn't parse with you 'forgetting' my claim when you spent an entire post praising it. Are you trying to bait me again by being a goofball?

Magua besides ignoring your question because the idea of Starbuck being anyscum is dumb, and the fact that I think so being in that post you keep harrassing me about, I can answer your first balls question. Why the fuck would Feysal choose -himself- over someone he knew to be his partner? This isn't a vacuum here and I -think- some of us might have been a wee suspicious if Feysal refused to go after DCL and flipped as a traitor. I don't even get why you think this would be a thing.

But yknow if you really need a reason to remind yourself why Starbuck isn't Stannis in specific I'm sure this pointer might help you. You weren't here in the early game so it's possible you just missed this, but I highly doubt former-hellcat flopped down this terrible case on his buddy.

[Pandora]

Uuuuuuuuh I missed the S.S. Pantshead you guys are riding on, why is the logical answer to 'omg AV's claim is town' to jump onto Timeater. This is the opposite of logical, stop voting for the obvtown idiot and get on someone actually scummy. I really liked the angry line about being trapped, had the right town of ~*townie indignation*~. I'd be willing to go after Zdenek at this point for continuing to push against stupid 'slip ups', or Magua for continually asking me stupid questions about why the obvtown is town. plz to be making bigger wagons on these two and not Timeater.

##Vote: Zdenek

[Pandora]

I have not slept and I've been busy for like the last 12 hours but I remembbered I have to post in the mafia
so I am posting in the mafia
I think my brain needs a new one

[Pandora]

I see we're still doing a shitty wagon on Starbuckeater. That sure is a thing. Wake me up when people want to lynch someone who isn't just derp.

[Pandora]

This day is still going on. -_- I refuse to take part in this mockery of a votecount. STOP VOTING TIMEATER FFS HIS SLOT IS TOWN. What is wrong with you people? It's like you have ADD and you've forgotten the last five days happened and are settling for stupid wagons on idiots instead of looking for the god damn scum team! Either of the other two wagons would be better then this.

[Pandora]

if Timeater flips scum, can I have your vote tomorrow?

If we're both still alive and you don't come out confirmed scum maybe. I have little doubt I will be the one doing the furry jig of victory.

Tim no one cares if Feysal hated you, Feysal was a traitor and some people don't even think he knew his own scum team. Who should people be voting instead and why? This is how you get past bad wagons, find the way of truth instead of defensive despair.

[Pandora]

I kind of assume Salamance was copying other people's reads actually. I was on the top of alot of people's lists Day 1 (yet somehow MoI still beat me out what is dis -.- )
So just to answer the glaringly stupid questions you've asked, I can't remember Tyene claiming anything, you have officially lost it, and can you explain how being preachy and authoritative makes someone scummy because this is two tickets to getting lynched still.

[Pandora]

In fact Pandora, I get that you've been all "This Timeater lynch is wrong Starbuck was town is town vote anyone else!" lately and most of your posts have constituted of saying you don't want a part of this day but I just went and re-read you and you never had a town read on Starbuck for her early game play at all. The closest you went to stating something about her alignment wise was saying that Feysal had a point about her lurking and she was in Quilfords reads lists null pile so really not getting your play at all. Especially not getting how you seem to be supporting

both

Thor / Zdenek being scum.

Beyond the fact that this day is depressingly dull and I have given up hope of anything but the inevitable mislynch you are driving people towards, yes specifically you and I have no idea why you of all people are falling into this trap, I would think you could find the things I was saying about Starbuck starting in my third post.

Let me put it another way then that you should understand. Your original vote on Starbuck is typical RVS. Your pursuit of her is continuing over game theory (that you agreed with earlier, that we shouldn't try to pick scum to have the vig) and because you don't get something Starbuck appears to be hopeless confused about. Can you tell me what is scummy about what she's saying? I think you're just staying on the wagon that picked up and justifying your stay with questions that bring out more theory-related confusion instead of pulling out scum reads.

Considering I was arguing with someone I was voting, it isn't hard to defer that the person they are attacking, that I thought was 'hopelessly confused', was town and continues to be even with a honkingly sad wagon building on her slot. A wagon built out of mostly people I would have trusted otherwise too except for the weirdo at the start.

But no. Let's ignore the suspiciously cross-voted wagons and lynch the random dumbwit because he's irritating and insert scum argument here. You're the one with the two votes here. You're the one that The Scum trusts to lead us to the mislynch promised land. Why not instead of going down the path you're comfy traveling, Why don't you reread Zdenek's anti-Tyene crusade or Thor's sardonic laughing at anyone who posts in his direction play and figure out where you're wrong?

[Pandora]

I'm sorry if it wasn't that obvious to you guys. It never came up before then because Starbuck wasn't doing anything and you weren't trying to lynch him/her/it. I feel alot more strongly about derp-newbies being town then Quilford does, I imagine. I've been ignoring the slot because it's town and hunting town isn't what you do to find scum. You act like Starbuck was a thing at all Day 2-4. You might even note my comment on Tim's replace in was 'went into the Starbuck town slot'. It's not as sudden as you're making it up to be.

Minimum: Because I obviously have a preference. There are still two people holding off from voting at all. As long as the Timeater wagon stays solid and filled with the people driving the day, there isn't going to be a change in wagons. It's frustrating to watch people patting each other on the back like this. Go ahead and call me scum with Tim because he's going to flip town and you're going to look like a moron for saying it. I'm sure that won't stop you from trying to push me anyways tomorrow.

On the plus side you're helping give reasons for the scum not to auto-kill me after all. I can look forward to another night of 'you saw nothing happen'! \o/

[Pandora]

Are we actually going to popcorn claim today or not? It's what Regfan would have wanted. I'm not outting my results until people pony up. Embarrassingly I slept through the lynch when it happened. <_<; However, it's worrying to me that there are literally four PR's besides myself still alive.
Flipped so far: mason, mason, non-con rber, torturer, frey cop, champion vig, motivator, follower
Unflipped claims: voyeur, 1-shot rolestopper, some day pr?, informed townie, JoaT who used investigative
That's.. 13 pr's? Which in my estimation is bulb shit. That makes like half the game a pr and that's just dumb, even if half of them are as USEFUL as mine. In particular Anx not being targetted rings wrong seeing as he's the most likely useful one left.

Will you shutup about Zdenek and Thor for a second? There are still eleven people alive. I want to talk about kortul.

What exactly changed between This vote on AVox and This vote on Timeater? If I'm reading correctly it's because Nacho went FUCK and voted Timeater? Awayaway back he decided Nacho sounded genuine so I don't see why what Nacho does should matter. His AVox suspicion is certainly changed soon after to a 'heck, if you think he can be townie sure we'll look at his play. Escuse me while I do not look over his play okay'. It seems more like he's getting back on the Timeater wagon when it was getting hot again. It took me a bit to look back and go through 'suspicions' but for all the people he does go through, kortul never actually does an in-depth look at Timeater. There's alot of 'am going to read him soon' and then he votes him for his previous reasons and suspicions that he never spelled out. I honestly don't have proof, but I keep forgetting kortul exists. This is Townie Intuition talking and he just feels like something slimey.

No votes until people start popping out claims. Guess who I want to go first.

[Pandora]

Challenge Accepted.
Let's go way back to start.
[quote="In post 2160

If all Aegon members know each other

, then Starbuck and Mockingjaye best fit as possible Aegon members.

Starbuck.

Saporeint in 1186 comes with town read on her, but his wording is pretty vague - "Somehow I come away thinking she's likely town, though -- this is too much like asking for it to come from scum." It also leaves him room to invert this read later, if needed. I already told about certain similarities of bvoigt comments on Starbuck and Sala/Sapo, it cannot be intentional, but if they were both his partners, this could be subconscious thing. And she ignored both slots and their wagons.

Mockingjaye

(now Anxiety) (11 posts total, so less sure about her). There were no interactions, no opinions from bvoigt and Sapo on her, and she managed to avoid them as well, concentrating on her own targets. At the end of Day 1 she appeared whenever there was an alternative wagon. [/quote]
This is where it started from what I can tell. Your scum read on her was based on what the scum team thought of her, with a brushed off mention of her own posts in a way that doesn't verify the content inside.
You have kind of a case on Mockingjaye that you barely mention after this, once to say she is still scum, and once more afterwards to say 'is a PR must be town won't bother reading anymore'. Which is like code for 'not an interesting lynch for people nightkills pchoo' and saying someone is less likely to be scum because they're lurkposting is bad because say it with me, LYNCH THE LURKERS.
I even notice this gem while I was cruising around.

Regfan, i really doubt you will be able to roll a wagon on 4nx (take a look at one of my previous post with counts, nothing much changed since that time). Since there's lot of talk about Feysal meta, but opinions are different, skimming his games to get my own impression of his play.

What, did you forget that 4nx was a scumread and you wanted a wagon on him? This is before he claimed so why the fuck would you soft defend a scum read of yours?

On day 3 i did a quick look at finished games of Scumhunter - he can actually scumhunt if he wants to, and i was willing to wait to find out whether he will make some efforts in this game as well without being asked. Yesterday i thought it happened, but a day passed and catching up is still a promise. Since Starbuck is also the best fit as possible member of at least one faction (Aegon), my vote goes here.
VOTE: Scumhunter

'dude isn't reading game and sometimes he can scumhunt if he wants' This is meaningless because according to NotTierce he is equally capable of being a shithead as town. If you were really looking for something you should have looked at a finished scum game and seen what he did then. Still no words from StarScumhunter's posts.

Scumhunter/Starbuck

- leaning scum. I don't think that her claim/selfchoose was a tell at all, since i can see her doing this as both town and scum. In the middle of day 1 she went under radar. Don't like 75, bvoigt stance on her, and i see her as a best fit in Aegon faction, but at the same time she can fit Stannis as well - redFF theory discussions with her doesn't sound like lynch pushing at all, and DCL was ignoring her.

At least you mention some of her posts finally. Except that 'her claim/selfchoose thing' is like a buzzword you could picck up just from readingg the thread. I don't see the reason why you think she could do this as both town and scum. You don't even say what 75 is (It's Starbuck wondering why people think scum would shoot scum, which amusingly hasn't happened) and there's no explanation for what exactly is wrong with it. Again you focus on 'here's what other people said about X' instead of what they said.

So what? Who needs a second part of the claim instead of content? How that should help us to find scum? If you ARE lazy town, replacing would be better... :roll:

A notion of Jaime Lannister being a VT is interesting, i will leave this claim for those familiar with a last book and Faraday modding style. And i thought i've seen some Jaime Lannister breadcrumbs elsewhere.

I'm glad this was clear about whether you thought the claim made him town or scum and that it ever gets mentioned again

Scumhunter, that was almost 3 days ago. You keep saying that you are lazy

town

, then what is your motivation to feed us with promises? Lazy town doesn't equal VI, ie you do realize that we have like 6 days until deadline, and the longer you delay your decision the less time we will have to process your content (if any), and the less time will have your replacement(if any) to read and comment on anything before the deadline.

Two posts where your only argument that Scumhunter is scum is that he's too lazy to post (and since he actually does replace out this kind of confirms what he said he would do so etc). Can't wait to see how you ignore this to pursue Timeater later.

Tierce, but i don't see this slot as town. My suspicions are not that strong, but they exist. I reread the play of Starbuck again, and just don't see any towntells. She may be naive, maybe she were confused, but that isn't an alignment tell. I already told why i think interactions between Sala/Sapo, bvoigt and her are suspicious. I hoped to get a better read on the slot from Scumhunter play, but he does nothing. He had 2 game days without any pressure to do anything (reread, ISO, thoughts on events on those days), but all he did were promises and prod dodges. Today i decided to add a pressure to get any reaction, and nothing much changed. More promises. My read on the slot didn't change since day 1, because there is nothing to analyze. No real interactions, thoughts, reads. If this slot is town, at the moment Scumhunter is just dead weight occupying it.

"She may be naive, maybe she was confused, but that isn't an alignment tell." Let me stop you right there.

Yes it is.

Scum don't get confused and scum are bad people who aren't naive. They have buddies to tell them what's going on so they don't need to be confused waffleheads. Your argument actual sways beautifully towards EVVEN IF IT'S TOWN YOU SHOULD WANT TO KILL IT ANYWAYS. How the fuck is this a scum case?

I still suspect Timeater slot, but after this entrance claim that i don't like, Timeater play today is natural.

Oh okay, Timeater isn't as bad as his predecesors after all.

Will read now what happened while i was mulling on that hell of double ISO, but i realized that Feysal flip changes nothing in my suspicions towards Timeater.
VOTE: Timeater

NEVERMIND TIMEATER IS BEING SUSPECTED DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT.

Timeater - Yeah this ain't Stannis. He could be a regular Goon trying to get in a nightkill for his team via the Choose mechanic, but mind you,

this is incredibly dangerous for an uninformed Aegon: because shooting someone may mean they hit one of their (unkn)own, if they really are divided.

Bolded part is true only if Starbuck really wanted to be choosen. At that time MoI already expressed desire to be choosen, and there wasn't a crowd waiting to choose him. So yes, Starbuck could be genuine VT asking to be choosen, or could be scum aiming to get rid of pressure once and for all with an early VT claim with town looking explanation. I cannot distinguish her motivation, this is null tell for me. But if this is town tell for you because of the bolded part, this is wrong - at that time it was obvious that nobody would seriously consider choosing those who asked for it, so this wasn't a dangerous gambit if she is scum.

There is a huge difference between MoI wanting to be chosen because he is MoI and Starbuck's choosing reasons when she outted herself as VT and explained that she wanted to die because she was a VT the town could spare to lose. Of course maybe you wouldd know that if you had ever read her post, which was pretty much the reason she ever had pressure in the first place. At the time nothing was obvious at all. You also ignore being locked into a claim at the beginning of Day 1 and what that means for scum. It wasn't just that she wanted to be chosen. But that's all you've ever made it out to be.

[quote="In post 3242,
AurorusVox had not a single town tell that i can see. He droped his suspicions from Timeater because "if Timeaster had a fakeclaim, he wouldn't have fucked up his claim like he did" (ie fakeclaim PMs are somehow superior to town PMs?). His explanation behind Feysal vote was "because he is the biggest wagon". His sweep through RVS and the reasons for suspicion on Salamence are on the same level.

As a result, i am leaning scum on this slot, and this read is more strong than on Timeater. There's strange thing though, i think that Timeater is more likely to be Aegon scum, and AurorusVox is more likely to be Stannis scum, so i don't understand sudden activity from Timeater. Would like to hear his read and explanation on AV.[/quote]
Information instead of Analysis. What does it mean that AVox said any of that? Why is it suspicious? Because he said stuff that revolves around the slot that you've been claiming to suspect? What does Timeater being suddenly active mean for your read on Timeater? Could it be he was a hyperactive weirdo who wanted to boost up his postcount because Timeater does that? I don't think you put any thought into it because all you say about it is HMM INTERESTING.

Then we get to the voteswitch to AVox because ROLESTOPPER. Then we get to the vote back to Timeater because 'well I no longer suspect Nacho is protecting him'. You never actually engaged with the only person in this slot to actually talk to you. You can't pull out anything -Timeater- did that was scummy. Your comments are "oh noes Timeater is starting to sound almost town! oh well not town enough for me to unvote. Did you want to know what posts of his I think sound town? TOO BAD." Haha that sounds like a joke but that is barely paraphrasing.

After the recent burst from Timeater my doubts as to whether my suspicions are correct returned. Even though i am wary that he is calling everyone voting him town, his emotions feel genuine. Have anybody seen Timeater/Aclhemist playing as a scum under pressure? I tried to skim over some of his games, but they look the same to me regardless of alignment, and i don't have the time to read into meta more deeply. Still, i don't have more strong suspects now.

Timeater, doubts that i am right in my read on your slot doesn't mean that you are now my town read. Yes, you are not my strong scum read, but still strongest among weak scum reads. I was more sure about it yesterday, when you were sitting on "i'm obvtown" note, and Nacho was pushing Feysal - i had an impression that he was trying to save your butt, but his actions today speak against it.

For someone who was eager to get some content out of this slot you sure didn't seem to care to talk about any of the content once you got it. You sat on a vote on a wagon you claimed you weren't sure of, while not givng Timeater the time of day. You were still calling it Starbuck for fuck sakes. Instead of bringing up anything Timeater said, so you could possibly work out these urges, or asking him anymore questions beyond the first (that you never replied to any answer or lack of any answer for) , you rode it out until he was gone and everyone would forget how you rode on his slot for two days because Starbuck. It's a mimicry of everything that was wrong with Feysal.

So in conclusion, no, your thought process was not transparant, as so much as it was made to sound like you had thought long and hard about it while doing no thinking at all.

[Pandora]

fUCKING FUCK quote tAGS give me a minute to figure out what exactly I messed up in these

[Pandora]

Challenge Accepted.
Let's go way back to start.

If all Aegon members know each other

, then Starbuck and Mockingjaye best fit as possible Aegon members.

Starbuck.

Saporeint in 1186 comes with town read on her, but his wording is pretty vague - "Somehow I come away thinking she's likely town, though -- this is too much like asking for it to come from scum." It also leaves him room to invert this read later, if needed. I already told about certain similarities of bvoigt comments on Starbuck and Sala/Sapo, it cannot be intentional, but if they were both his partners, this could be subconscious thing. And she ignored both slots and their wagons.

Mockingjaye

(now Anxiety) (11 posts total, so less sure about her). There were no interactions, no opinions from bvoigt and Sapo on her, and she managed to avoid them as well, concentrating on her own targets. At the end of Day 1 she appeared whenever there was an alternative wagon.

This is where it started from what I can tell. Your scum read on her was based on what the scum team thought of her, with a brushed off mention of her own posts in a way that doesn't verify the content inside.
You have kind of a case on Mockingjaye that you barely mention after this, once to say she is still scum, and once more afterwards to say 'is a PR must be town won't bother reading anymore'. Which is like code for 'not an interesting lynch for people nightkills pchoo' and saying someone is less likely to be scum because they're lurkposting is bad because say it with me, LYNCH THE LURKERS.
I even notice this gem while I was cruising around.

Regfan, i really doubt you will be able to roll a wagon on 4nx (take a look at one of my previous post with counts, nothing much changed since that time). Since there's lot of talk about Feysal meta, but opinions are different, skimming his games to get my own impression of his play.

What, did you forget that 4nx was a scumread and you wanted a wagon on him? This is before he claimed so why the fuck would you soft defend a scum read of yours?

On day 3 i did a quick look at finished games of Scumhunter - he can actually scumhunt if he wants to, and i was willing to wait to find out whether he will make some efforts in this game as well without being asked. Yesterday i thought it happened, but a day passed and catching up is still a promise. Since Starbuck is also the best fit as possible member of at least one faction (Aegon), my vote goes here.
VOTE: Scumhunter

'dude isn't reading game and sometimes he can scumhunt if he wants' This is meaningless because according to NotTierce he is equally capable of being a shithead as town. If you were really looking for something you should have looked at a finished scum game and seen what he did then. Still no words from StarScumhunter's posts.

Scumhunter/Starbuck

- leaning scum. I don't think that her claim/selfchoose was a tell at all, since i can see her doing this as both town and scum. In the middle of day 1 she went under radar. Don't like 75, bvoigt stance on her, and i see her as a best fit in Aegon faction, but at the same time she can fit Stannis as well - redFF theory discussions with her doesn't sound like lynch pushing at all, and DCL was ignoring her.

At least you mention some of her posts finally. Except that 'her claim/selfchoose thing' is like a buzzword you could picck up just from readingg the thread. I don't see the reason why you think she could do this as both town and scum. You don't even say what 75 is (It's Starbuck wondering why people think scum would shoot scum, which amusingly hasn't happened) and there's no explanation for what exactly is wrong with it. Again you focus on 'here's what other people said about X' instead of what they said.

So what? Who needs a second part of the claim instead of content? How that should help us to find scum? If you ARE lazy town, replacing would be better... :roll:

A notion of Jaime Lannister being a VT is interesting, i will leave this claim for those familiar with a last book and Faraday modding style. And i thought i've seen some Jaime Lannister breadcrumbs elsewhere.

I'm glad this was clear about whether you thought the claim made him town or scum and that it ever gets mentioned again

Scumhunter, that was almost 3 days ago. You keep saying that you are lazy

town

, then what is your motivation to feed us with promises? Lazy town doesn't equal VI, ie you do realize that we have like 6 days until deadline, and the longer you delay your decision the less time we will have to process your content (if any), and the less time will have your replacement(if any) to read and comment on anything before the deadline.

Two posts where your only argument that Scumhunter is scum is that he's too lazy to post (and since he actually does replace out this kind of confirms what he said he would do so etc). Can't wait to see how you ignore this to pursue Timeater later.

Tierce, but i don't see this slot as town. My suspicions are not that strong, but they exist. I reread the play of Starbuck again, and just don't see any towntells. She may be naive, maybe she were confused, but that isn't an alignment tell. I already told why i think interactions between Sala/Sapo, bvoigt and her are suspicious. I hoped to get a better read on the slot from Scumhunter play, but he does nothing. He had 2 game days without any pressure to do anything (reread, ISO, thoughts on events on those days), but all he did were promises and prod dodges. Today i decided to add a pressure to get any reaction, and nothing much changed. More promises. My read on the slot didn't change since day 1, because there is nothing to analyze. No real interactions, thoughts, reads. If this slot is town, at the moment Scumhunter is just dead weight occupying it.

"She may be naive, maybe she was confused, but that isn't an alignment tell." Let me stop you right there.

Yes it is.

Scum don't get confused and scum are bad people who aren't naive. They have buddies to tell them what's going on so they don't need to be confused waffleheads. Your argument actual sways beautifully towards EVVEN IF IT'S TOWN YOU SHOULD WANT TO KILL IT ANYWAYS. How the fuck is this a scum case?

I still suspect Timeater slot, but after this entrance claim that i don't like, Timeater play today is natural.

Oh okay, Timeater isn't as bad as his predecesors after all.

Will read now what happened while i was mulling on that hell of double ISO, but i realized that Feysal flip changes nothing in my suspicions towards Timeater.
VOTE: Timeater

NEVERMIND TIMEATER IS BEING SUSPECTED DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT.

Timeater - Yeah this ain't Stannis. He could be a regular Goon trying to get in a nightkill for his team via the Choose mechanic, but mind you,

this is incredibly dangerous for an uninformed Aegon: because shooting someone may mean they hit one of their (unkn)own, if they really are divided.

Bolded part is true only if Starbuck really wanted to be choosen. At that time MoI already expressed desire to be choosen, and there wasn't a crowd waiting to choose him. So yes, Starbuck could be genuine VT asking to be choosen, or could be scum aiming to get rid of pressure once and for all with an early VT claim with town looking explanation. I cannot distinguish her motivation, this is null tell for me. But if this is town tell for you because of the bolded part, this is wrong - at that time it was obvious that nobody would seriously consider choosing those who asked for it, so this wasn't a dangerous gambit if she is scum.

There is a huge difference between MoI wanting to be chosen because he is MoI and Starbuck's choosing reasons when she outted herself as VT and explained that she wanted to die because she was a VT the town could spare to lose. Of course maybe you wouldd know that if you had ever read her post, which was pretty much the reason she ever had pressure in the first place. At the time nothing was obvious at all. You also ignore being locked into a claim at the beginning of Day 1 and what that means for scum. It wasn't just that she wanted to be chosen. But that's all you've ever made it out to be.

AurorusVox had not a single town tell that i can see. He droped his suspicions from Timeater because "if Timeaster had a fakeclaim, he wouldn't have fucked up his claim like he did" (ie fakeclaim PMs are somehow superior to town PMs?). His explanation behind Feysal vote was "because he is the biggest wagon". His sweep through RVS and the reasons for suspicion on Salamence are on the same level.

As a result, i am leaning scum on this slot, and this read is more strong than on Timeater. There's strange thing though, i think that Timeater is more likely to be Aegon scum, and AurorusVox is more likely to be Stannis scum, so i don't understand sudden activity from Timeater. Would like to hear his read and explanation on AV.

Information instead of Analysis. What does it mean that AVox said any of that? Why is it suspicious? Because he said stuff that revolves around the slot that you've been claiming to suspect? What does Timeater being suddenly active mean for your read on Timeater? Could it be he was a hyperactive weirdo who wanted to boost up his postcount because Timeater does that? I don't think you put any thought into it because all you say about it is HMM INTERESTING.

Then we get to the voteswitch to AVox because ROLESTOPPER. Then we get to the vote back to Timeater because 'well I no longer suspect Nacho is protecting him'. You never actually engaged with the only person in this slot to actually talk to you. You can't pull out anything -Timeater- did that was scummy. Your comments are "oh noes Timeater is starting to sound almost town! oh well not town enough for me to unvote. Did you want to know what posts of his I think sound town? TOO BAD." Haha that sounds like a joke but that is barely paraphrasing.

After the recent burst from Timeater my doubts as to whether my suspicions are correct returned. Even though i am wary that he is calling everyone voting him town, his emotions feel genuine. Have anybody seen Timeater/Aclhemist playing as a scum under pressure? I tried to skim over some of his games, but they look the same to me regardless of alignment, and i don't have the time to read into meta more deeply. Still, i don't have more strong suspects now.

Timeater, doubts that i am right in my read on your slot doesn't mean that you are now my town read. Yes, you are not my strong scum read, but still strongest among weak scum reads. I was more sure about it yesterday, when you were sitting on "i'm obvtown" note, and Nacho was pushing Feysal - i had an impression that he was trying to save your butt, but his actions today speak against it.

For someone who was eager to get some content out of this slot you sure didn't seem to care to talk about any of the content once you got it. You sat on a vote on a wagon you claimed you weren't sure of, while not givng Timeater the time of day. You were still calling it Starbuck for fuck sakes. Instead of bringing up anything Timeater said, so you could possibly work out these urges, or asking him anymore questions beyond the first (that you never replied to any answer or lack of any answer for) , you rode it out until he was gone and everyone would forget how you rode on his slot for two days because Starbuck. It's a mimicry of everything that was wrong with Feysal.

So in conclusion, no, your thought process was not transparant, as so much as it was made to sound like you had thought long and hard about it while doing no thinking at all.

EDWARD STARK YOU HUNKY HUNK OF MAN PLEASE MAKE THAT QUOTING FAILURE DISAPPEAR TY SNUGGLES

[Pandora]

I see that the post you've linked are mine. What changed between them? Is it really a mystery? I left the dying wagon on one of my suspects, and went back to the wagon on my other suspect, that was getting attention finally.

You didn't care which one of them was lynched despite your read on AVox being 'stronger then your read on Timeater' and your Timeater suspicions having doubts because he was sounding townie to you, that's what the bloody mystery is! Why did you not try to push the read you claimed to believe in harder! (the answer is because yo scum)

@Pandora - i remembered one thing i wanted to ask you regarding your claim. Why did you target Lyanna during night 1, and not Shadow? Chances for him being a target for all sorts of powers were high, given his claim, and that's where your role shines, since that information could be useful for checking future claims.

Because I thought he would die and catching a 'the cop/torturer was killed!' didn't seem like a useful power. There was no reason to expect any -scum- powers beyond a nightkill to be targetting him. Are you suggesting I should have tried to catch the doctor? :V Also because I am a Voyeur, and watching cute girls at night is what voyeurs do.

[Pandora]

I love walls, so we're going to have a wonderful relationship.

Wow, why did you have to twist everything? My time is limited, and i don't like walls, so will try to be concise. Let's see.

1)

Your scum read on her was based on what the scum team thought of her, with a brushed off mention of her own posts in a way that doesn't verify the content inside.

post 2160 was an analysis of the interactions of the flipped Aegon, not an analysis of Starbuck. What content i had to verify, if "she ignored both slots and their wagons"?

Looking only at what other people say about someone instead of what someone themselves says is an excellent way to avoid addressing anything they have ever actually done, ever. What exactly is someone suposed to say to a case that isn't based on them in any way? "Oh, well yes I didn't talk to those people. That sure is a thing that happened." You don't include anything that shows

what Starbuck has ever done that could be considered scummy

. You never do this. This is why I think you're full of crap.

2) Once again, this wasn't a case on Mockingjaye as well, and translating "(11 posts total, so less sure about her)" into "saying someone is less likely to be scum because they're lurkposting" is misrepresentation.

Oh my mistake you just put her as your secondary scum read and maintained a scum read on her/4nx until she claimed, my mistake. What exactly does "(11 posts total, so less sure about her)" mean if not 'she posted less so I didn't get to read as much so she doesn't have as much to hang her by'?

3) My 2901. Defending 4nx? Did you look at it in context? It was

1 day before deadline

, with 3 wagons tied, and Regfan tried to start yet another one, saying "hopefully people actually move to 4nxiety by the time I get up." I don't approve spreading the votes at the last moment, and in one of my recent posts i counted the number of players who suspected slots, and was telling regfan that at that moment the wagon was doomed.

I will admit it's fair not to want the votes spread at the last minute. I will still argue that the tone of your post implies you never wanted a wagon on 4nx in the first place.

4) Regarding meta search on Scumhunter. I was already suspicious about the slot, and was looking whether Scumhunter play matches his town meta (ie is he lazy VI). It didn't, so there was no reason for me to decide that his behaviour is a town tell for him.

Did you look at a game in which he'd replaced into 100 pages of reading? Regardless of that he had enough of a reputation to cause a collective sigh when he replaced into the game.

5) Regarding claim/selfchoose. I knew Starbuck could do this as a town from her play in one of the recent games. I could see her doing this a scum as well, to lessen the building pressure and understanding that nobody would seriously consider choosing volunteer. In her 75 i didn't like her "I try to look at things from all angles when I am town and I'm doing that here", since this isn't just an explanation, but an introduction of selfmeta that she is aware about.

So you knew from her town meta that she acted like this but chose to willfully ignore it and decide it was a nulltell instead. You were arguing that you believed her confusion was genuine but that it was ~*~scum confusion~*~ so how does this go with assuming she 'understood' that no one would seriously choose her for volunteering?

6) You quote 2402 and 2493, and say that my

"only argument that Scumhunter is scum is that he's too lazy to post"

. Yet anpther blatant misrepresentation. I didn't say that he is scum in that posts at all, i am pushing him

to post content or replace

.

My mistake for assuming that you were pushing the person you were voting and wanted to lynch as scum instead of just wasting people's time with fluffy 'post content' posts. MY BAD.

7)

Scum don't get confused and scum are bad people who aren't naive.

Do you really believe that and still play magic? Naive players get their roles randomly. And scum get confused left and right.

I play Yugioh actually, Magic cards aren't as shiny. Scum are more careful when they post by nature because they have more to get wrong. They don't have the freedom of townie innocence because they know if they make a mistake the hounds will be after them. You can't be naive and guilty. Same way scum have more information about what's going on. The game is clearer to them then it should be to any townie playing. That's why the confused and lost little lambs are townie and the wolves who feed on the helpless are scum. I like to wax poetic but this is a general truth. All three of the people in that slot are bad at hiding who they are. Starbuck was waffly. Scumhunter didn't give a shit. And Timeater was a spammy little dude. They were playing themselves without an agenda. With genuine confusion. That's the kind of thing you can't fake.

8) So you think, that Feysal pushing Timeater makes Timeater more likely to be a town? Yeah, let's forget this is multiball and Feysal was a traitor, most likely not recruited.

I don't think I actually said this. In fact looking back I definitely didn't. I said that you made it sound like you were leaning town on Timeater when he came in then you dropped a vote on him anyways. I think you entertaining Feysal by actually chatting him up is a scummy waste of time to make your posts look bigger.

9) Should i go into tiny details every time i post something? If you didn't understand it then - ask. Why wait? It is simple as that. AV was doing things that i consider fishy, and i listed them. Timeater became real active once the attention turned towards AV, so i began to suspect them to be scum buddies.

I am aware of what you were getting at, except that you were quite clear that you thought they were scum on opposite teams, so that line of thought doesn't work together at all. Sure keeps your options open though.

10)

For someone who was eager to get some content out of this slot you sure didn't seem to care to talk about any of the content once you got it.

That wasn't a content, that was emotional outburst. Sometimes i think i can recognize genuine emotions from fake, and i tend to believe that town shows genuine emotions more often than scum, but that's it. If he were working on reread, or the reads, and posted analysis/conclusions - that would be a content for me.

So you're arguing that there isn't a single thing that Timeater ever said that you could consider content? That everything he posted was an emotional outburst? Regardless of that again you admit that that's more like what a townie would do. Your last post on the subject was a 'didn't try hard enuf' post. You weren't affected because you didn't want to be convinced one way or the other.

So, to sum it up, my read on Pandora is shattered. Twisting things around and blatant misrepresentations are a scum tell in my eyes. Town has no need for this.

Oh My God I Must Suck *ohdear* :roll: The only one who's twisted something so far in this conversation is you.

I don't sit on vanity wagons

You don't do alot of things other then vote Starbuck until the end of time. Your conversation with Regfan is laughable because it involves AVox being scum and telling the truth about his role, yet deciding to protect a townie in multiball instead of saving it for his own team.

Doctor, bodyguard, watcher, roleblocker, serial killer, nobody targeting, should i continue? I didn't mention less common Rolestopper and Motivator, that were claimed and fliped already.

Yes I am aware those are all roles. I can't confirm a serial killer, I just get 'killing action' not 'serial killah vig'. I assumed the scum wouldd choose to kill him over roleblocking, and I'm p sure a town roleblocker wouldn't have done anything. I can't tell the difference between Doc or Bodyguard either but him living would have gone a long way to proving it. A watcher would have been too busy outting the killer for me to need to verify them, and ignoring that I'm pretty sure there isn't a fucking watcher in the game because I'm baby watcher lite. I picked someone I thought the scum might choose as a secondary target to rolecop, someone who wouldn't be on the 'kill in this line to win game' list but who was still dangerous.

[Pandora]

QUICK THROW THE DEAD GUY AT HER

That post was a joke about both someone else I play with at another site and at Lord Mhork about how certain people turn into really polite scum who say things like Good gracious and sound like they need a monocle and a top hat.

If SBSHTE was a scum read for the majority of people all game I can honestly say I never noticed until people started trying to lynch SBSHTE. And I don't care if Starbuck has been playing for years, experience has never stopped anyone from being derptown 4 lyfe

[Pandora]

TIERCE

I have been really patient and enjoying frollicing with you elsewhere but where the hell are you and why aren't you saying anything. >:T I don't compose these cases in order to argue endlessly with likely scum, I want to see what people think of them. I also want to hear from Minimum and Magua on what they think.

[Pandora]

Also for massclaim to start already instead of sitting on our butts about it. Voting before then is a distraction. Get your claim on.

[Pandora]

..holy shit it was your birthday? way to make me feel terrible. :< I would have gotten something to drink with you! There's always more alcohol where the alcohol came from.
4nx has a scumread on me now that I think he's partners with someone else. :) Small coincidences always light up my day.

[Pandora]

CES could the side of your head the responds in more then one line posts explain that further because that is really not helpful to me.

START. CLAIMING. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT ANY MORE SHIT UNTIL PEOPLE START SPILLING. I NOMINATE KORTUL AS PRESIDENT OF THE GO FIRST CLUB

[Pandora]

You don't have to trust me. It wasn't my idea, it was Regfan's. He was one of the few organized people left playing and when people get offed their contributions usually get forgotten. We're getting to the point where the next day a claim isn't going to be trustable because of endgame situations. It's now or never.

[Pandora]

-_- I supose that's at least a reasonable reply, even if I think you're wrong. I doubt the last scum are going to be so easily caught. Being annoyed at my cases is a long-standing scum reaction from people actually, I can't imagine why but no one ever agrees with me on what scummy is. Suffice it to say I don't think I've misrepresented, rather I've been quite thurough in showing exactly what I think is wrong here.

[Pandora]

I don't have anything to add to the massclaim so instead I... was going to do some creative writing but I have discovered any sort of story about Lord Quilburn and Tyrcella Baratheon would read like one of those stories about bad preachers and witness protection. Jesus fuck that face is creepy. I'm really sad because the names work so well. *fume*

Maybe I can write some Margaery x Myrcella instead I can already see a 'so that's why no one believed she slept with all those men' fanfic writing itself

[Pandora]

I'm more interested in Anx's role personally. The only part I agree about with Thor is do what you think is right instead of bowing to the crowd. I'm curious from an academic standpoint of wanting to know all the neat roles.

[Pandora]

Fine, if we're lynching him anyways I guess it doesn't matter.
I was really confused for a minute when Minimum was talking about copping BBmolla because I was like WHAT BUT I DIDN'T SEE ANYONE
But I guess I would never see a daycop in the night. I didn't see anyone at all actually. PAR FOR THE COURSE.

So, this might seem like an odd question for you flavor people, but how likely is Jeyne Poole to be aligned with Aegon? I'm wondering because if their 'forces are split' IE if they have a traitor too, and Feysal was looking to neighbourize this person, how possible is it that he'd neighbourize another traitor WRM style? I don't see why it'd be useful to have to search out a random townie to neighbourize. I think it's more likely he'd neighbourize into his own scumteam then that actually.

Lynching the person you suspect is a partner with the person you think is scum is the wrong way to go about it, but at least it would make clear some of my suspicions that way. And redundant power roles in a game like this would be weird.

[Pandora]

If you say so. How can a traitor 'pass on' information to their team anyways? :V It's this that throws me off about it.

Feysal (Theon Greyjoy (Reek) - *Informed Traitor and

Specific Neighbouriser to the

Stannis Faction

) was Spared Day 4, set to die Day 5.

It implies 'Neighbourizes to Stannis'.

[Pandora]

I keep looking for the popcorn picture but I can't find it. So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul). Probably too easy. It's irritating to be waiting for the scum before lynching, mostly because there's no chance of a wagon his way right now.

[Pandora]

I keep looking for the popcorn picture but I can't find it. So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul). Probably too easy. It's irritating to be waiting for the scum before lynching, mostly because there's no chance of a wagon his way right now.

Do you think Thor and Zdenek are teammates, or opposing teams? Which one do you think is on a team with 4nxi3ty?

If you read my well-written case (you didn't read my case did you :< ) you would know I think Anx is possibly buddies with kortul. Zdenek and Thor don't quite fit as scum together because they're kind of been opposing wagons for a bit, but other scum driving etc. and I think there was always a third wagon around. I figure a few more deaths will make it clearer (or I'll be dead by then so it's someone else's problem to solve)

Zdenek: :fistbump:

[Pandora]

A better question is why would you think copping someone that is almost confirmed town is a good idea holy shit

[Pandora]

I don't think they can be a team. Thatsthepoint.jpg
I supose you wouldn't be happy to hear you're the most likely one to fill the gap though :D

[Pandora]

So I saw someone die last night... ;_______; YOU SUCK STARK IF I HAD A REAL ROLE I WOULD BE GETTING VENGEANCE RIGHT NOW

@Pandora

So the current forecast is Anxiety, Thor and Zdenek as scum with some random guy thrown in as a fourth chaser? (hint it's kortul).

Probably too easy.

If you read my well-written case (you didn't read my case did you :< ) you would know I think Anx is possibly buddies with kortul. Zdenek and Thor don't quite fit as scum together because they're kind of been opposing wagons for a bit, but other scum driving etc. and I think there was always a third wagon around.

Can you just run me through this?

You have {4nx, Thor, Zdenek, Kortul} as scum, with 4nx and Kortul as partners, but you

don't

see Zdenek and Thor as being partners? How does that shake out in that case?

Also, just picking up on the bolded, what exactly did you mean by "probably too easy"? Because earlier you said pretty much the opposite, that you didn't think scum would be caught very easily...

-_- I supose that's at least a reasonable reply, even if I think you're wrong. I doubt the last scum are going to be so easily caught.

The answer to all of your questions is that it's probably just one of Thor and Zdenek that's scum. At least we can be pretty sure Zdenek isn't Aegon, since Anx seemed to really think Tierce and Zdenek were out to get him >_> The fact that it seems too easy is my point.

kortul is Anx's buddy anyways though so REVENGE WILL BE HAD. DIE MURDERER YOU DON'T BELONG IN THIS WORLD.

##VOTE: KORTUL

(L-1)

[Pandora]

@Pandora, in a kind of "too good to be true" vein? I can dig that. But if it's just one of Thor/Zdenek + Kortul, who do you think is the remaining scumbag? Before you had it being Thor, Zdenek, 4nx plus Kortul as the fourth -- if you're so sure on Kortul, why didn't you have him as one of the primary three the first time around?

You have that backwards, I had Kortul with 4nx as a possible partner, and then Thor/Zdenek. Actually it's kind of insulting you could possibly think that when I WANTED TO LYNCH KORTUL. The remaining scumbag would be either You, Magua, possibly BBMolla. I don't think it's Minimum at this point. There's good reason to believe it isn't you because there's no doctor and you're the closest thing to it. That leaves someone who claimed BP and hasn't really done much in the game, and someone that is kind of.. there? Looking at what he's saying today, I'm not sure why Magua is voting Kortul while talking to Thor like that. Actually I think he owes a vote on Thor that is strangely missing. Magua, why are you not voting Thor at this point?

Thor's argument against kortul actually now that I look at it looks like semantic bullshit trying to catch kortul talking about mislynching Thor. Let me break it down easily: If kortul is scum he would benefit from you being lynched because you are not him and it would mean he wasn't getting lynched. This isn't actually hard to understand and the big deal you're making around it is disingenuous.

AVox talking about how dumb Kortul's answer is is also bad actually. What else would you expect him to say? "Oh yes you caught me I am scum plz lynch here <---" It actually makes more sense for a townie to make the argument kortul is making. "I'm not scum because I'm not." Why exactly should he have put more thought into it then that?

Also, kortul's point about NOT KILLING ME is actually a good one to me.

##Unvote

[Pandora]

P.S. Pandora, what would it take to get you to vote Thor?

I react well to bribes of cookies. I will probably refrain from thinking about voting until tomorrow after I've had some sleep and actually aren't working the next day. For Thor's benefit I can say I would be less inclined to vote for him if he were to post his scum picks with reasoning behind them instead of asking for a case which is plainly not going to appear.

Let me break it down easily: If kortul is scum he would benefit from you being lynched because you are not him and it would mean he wasn't getting lynched. This isn't actually hard to understand and the big deal you're making around it is disingenuous.

So you're saying he's Aegon scum if he's scum at all then, yeah?

Pretty much, and it's what the evidence I looked at said. I simply have doubts he would have refrained from taking me out over Tierce or Nacho at this point.

Avox I do not make rant cases on people I think are town at the time. It just doesn't happen, you can't wish someone to disappear that much.

[Pandora]

Zdenek and Kortul are unlikely Stannis together.
I actually think with the way Kortul is talking he'd be Aegon if anything.
I think I'd suggest Kortul is town, Zdenek is scum, and possibly BBMolla as the 'lolwtf scum'. I'm getting hascow vibes off him currently.

If I had a strong feel right now I'd move on it...probably if forced to I'd vote Zdenek, but that's just the annoying screaming itch in my face all game that I've been denied that I desperately want to flip, but I'm forced to look at it twice at this stage. I think the Kortul lynch is probably a bad idea though.

I kind of have a problem with the way you've been parsing your reads, Thor. I don't know if you've noticed this, but you keep talking about the 'two remaining scum.' At the moment we have 3 Aegon scum flipped, with a suspected unknown split last one, and one Stannis scum with one Stannis Traitor. This would lead one to believe there should be three remaining scum, but you've been pretty firm in pointing out the two remaining scum. Did you forget you were suposed to be looking for more? Because it sounds like it.

Also, why did you suspect that kortul in specific killed -Plum-? One could rationalize that it's because you believe it really doesn't make sense that he killed Tiercene, but if he is the lone Aegon isn't he more in danger from the other scumteam winning then from the town? Why would the Aegon at all shoot for the confirmed not to be enemy scum, especially when that person wasn't after him? It could be drawn that you already knew he wasn't the one who shot him in the first place.

I can see that you're currently calling for the wagon on kortul to 'go away' but I do still want an answer to this so I can understand what you're thinking here. If you really wanted a wagon to startup the first step starts with a vote.

[Pandora]

kortul, do you see the name at the end of that post. :| Does that name say Shadoweh? Quilford didn't say actually. I just agreed with him that MoS was kind of null, and later seemed townie for putting in the votecounts so I never asked before he disappeared to dreamland.

Thor: It's a start. Zdenek, a moment of your time while you're wailing at Thor, why would Thor actually put his vote where his mouth is against you when the only hope I see of him surviving today involves voting kortul? Can you explain what he's doing from a scum perspective?

[Pandora]

I like WIFOM though. An saying 'because scum would want you to WIFOM' can explain practically any townie thing anyone does, but it doesn't make suboptimal choices better. I'm really not feeling like you're thinking this through any harder then Thor is scum because scum now lynch.
<_< Mayne you're all scum

[Pandora]

prod dodge
Actually I remember someone asked me a question but I can't remember who so if someone wants something from me restate plz

[Pandora]

I don't understand why the kortul wagon fell away. Pandora get in here and vote kortul. Thor swap your vote. BBM hammer it.

Nope, I stopped drinking the bad kool-aid and he's like the only one putting effort in right now. If he's off the table along with Minimum and possibly BBmolla that doesn't leave much options for who the scumbag is now.

Since no one said anything: I'm going to sleep and this day feels like it's been talking in circles forever. Frankly I am getting sick of it. Gonna hammer when I wake up if Thor is still at L-1. Want to see what Magua's answer to kortul's question about me in 4099 is first though if he's not busy being scum.

[Pandora]

##Vote: Thor665

Go ahead and be a wanker Droopy, I know you can't resist the hammer button for long. Magua you cock it's been like 24 hours you must have access by now.

[Pandora]

Well, on the thoughts of scum maybe being bulletproof at least my result is kind of useful, nothing targetted AurorusVox last night. I have no idea what the optimal town play is in this kind of situation. Are we better off not lynching and praying for crosskills? Two dead Stannis and three dead Aegon, when we know there are still two kills happening, says there's at least one more of each.

If we're going to be lynching just looking at what Thor said, Magua is the only one left that wasn't on a wagon, and he seemed dead convinced Zdenek was scum. I'm willing to sheep dead people at this point since they can't be worse then I am right now. -_-

[Pandora]

I'm willing to sheep dead people at this point since they can't be worse then I am right now.

How about dead people who weren't lunatics and actually put some thought into their reads, like Magna and Plumamma?

Yeah I can't imagine why you would accuse the guy who thought you were scum of being a lunatic. >_> And I can't imagine why you would specify someone who thought you were town due to not possibly being scum because apparently a traitor neighbourizing to his own faction would be implausable.

Magna died way too early too have relevant reads to now. Plum spent alot of their last posts arguing with Minimum about how AV and BBmolla sounded scummier then Anxiety. Plum's last picks were Minimum and kortul (and that we should lynch Thor but etc). Minimum, are you scum that should claim now to stop wasting people's time? :V

I wouldn't have killed anyone as I would have been too busy sneaking in their pantries even though there's no one interesting to spy on anymore. I never know when CES is the one at Minimum's house >_>

[Pandora]

But if we mislynch we would literally need two crosskills to get out of this if we were at 2+1. >:T In fact even if we lynch 'correctly' we still need a crosskill. :/ It's depressing to think about but our fates are in the hands of the people with really shitty aim right now. Due to no options left + I still think it's a tying role I'd go with Zdenek as the best bet for today, but I really think no-lynching while pointing a finger empathically would work better.

[Pandora]

And Aegon was the faction that would've been suspicious of Molla. Stannis faction being split up would also suggest Stannis the person as lone person responsible for the nightkill. And AV did seem like a PR which would also suggest he was actually Stannis the person as only flipped scum PR is Aegon the person.

The way this entire post makes no sense notwithstanding. Why would Aegon be suspicious of Molla? What are you talking about with Stannis being split up?

[Pandora]

Minimum, for me it sounds more like Feysal thought that there is a reasonable chance that MoS is his teammate. He is analytic player, and spent some efforts to check MoS stance on Salamence/Saporeint, it would be also logical to check whether MoS is possible teammate. I believe that MoS stance on redFF/DCL is bad, yet Feysal didn't mention this at all. If he wanted an option to mislynch him at any time, tying him to Stannis would be more logical, after he said that MoS is less likely to be Aegon.

The way you put that makes it sound like you don't think Feysal knew who his buddy was, which Minimum's case is assuming he does. Assuming he did know, not tying to his 'own team' would be a slip because he wouldn't be thinking about it that way, I think. As in he would already know MoS isn't Stannis, so he wouldn't automatically think of tying him to Stannis.

Can

everyone

(including AV) give their opinions, whether 5 Aegon - 2+1 Stannis scenario is possible/makes any sense (ie 2 Aegon remaining)?

I think the odds of there being 5 Aegon and 3 Stannis, considering the two Stannis flipped didn't have uber kill everything powers, is too silly to even consider.

[Pandora]

Yes Zdenek would have to be Stannis to be scum which we have said a billion times I'm glad we cleared that up. >_> Unless we're talking Worst Role hot scum on scum mason action again. Minimum I have a question for you, if Magua is 'confirmed scum' to you why do you want to vote AVox?

[Pandora]

Right now it seems like people are deciding the leftover scum via process of elimination on their townreads. I can actually explain the 66% number. If Avox (himself) = town and he thinks Magua is 100% town, there are only four people left and presumably three scum to go between them. Two out of three if you're scum, three out of three if you're not, from his perspective. Of course this is bad math becaue

he's scum

because

he's stupid and wrong

because it's based on premature elimination, a terrible mafia condition.

At this moment my 'town pics' as it were are Minimum and kortul. Ignoring role shenanigans because they are both unprovable, and because as people keep forgetting there are at least three other reasons a kill could have not happened Night 1, Avox has been lurkalicious, Zdeken is neighbourizing Stannis scum, and Magua is scum because there's no one left. Can we just throw out everyone's top 3 and see where a lynch is going to end up going?

Me: Zdenik, Avox, Magua

Cut by Lulz

[Pandora]

I have been doing all of the posting. I think I said awhile back that I could dehydra but I really love this furry little guy. He hasn't posted in our QT since.. awhile ago. <_< Sorry but you'll have to settle for 100% pure refreshing spring Shadoweh.

Are you making fun of my spelling? I think I was still drunk when I wrote that. I kind of still have a hangover now <.< You know what would be cool is if you did the thing I asked you to do so we can lynch you faster.

[Pandora]

Zdenek: I don't think there's a person alive who thinks Magua is town besides AVox so etc. Being the most likely Aegon makes him not a good lynch I guess? (We could just point and let it take care of (ry) Fine I guess it would be better to lynch someone too.

[Pandora]

You okay with lynching AV, you Canadian furling?

I think it's more like an evil teddy bear.. but yes, Avox is on ZA LITSO. You, me and Kortul agreeing he's scummy, and Magua is going to listen to us because he wants to live (or he's town I guess? Haha no). AVox's response to the softclaim is 'my town read might actually be scum? oh noes! :<' If you really had a reason to believe he was town why would you drop it so easily?

[Pandora]

AVox: Yeah it's terrible of me to not want to lose the game by lynching the wrong scum I am the worst townie alive. My only regret is not thinking of watching OtherShadow earlier so I could have outted your claim as bullshit. You must be desperate trying to attack me because I am the town-to-the-ie and ain't no disrespectin this furry.. wait no that is a terrible rap. I will give you one last chance to come up with who the actual scum could be with excluding my beautiful furred body because your entire case on me is scum because it is.

[Pandora]

I am not going to be here tomorrow. Give me one good reason that I'm not leaving this here right now.

##Vote: AVox

[Pandora]

I was really hoping you wouldd be aroundd to actually answer me :/ Godd damnit.

##Unvote

##Vote: Zdenek