HunterxHunterxMafia: Yorknew City: Endgame

[Nachomamma8]

hi guys

- f

Buldey, can we make a truce until day 3? Best friends: neither of us suspects the other until day 3, we don't kill each other until day 3 if scum (or at least fight hard for an alternate kill if they really want to kill our slots that badly), we don't play dirty with power roles until day 3. I think it will be most to our benefit if we are both town, but if one of us is scum, I think it will work to the townie's benefit. Do you agree?

[Nachomamma8]

I don't know anyone, so, lets roll a true random vote.

Vote: Dry-Fit

Scummiest post of Day 1, scumtell negligible.
-1.

[Nachomamma8]

page one*

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Nachomamma8

~ F-16

Jealous?

[Nachomamma8]

PimHel wins on page 2, still pretty negligible tho
-1.

1. PimHel & Nibelung: 1

[Nachomamma8]

Pim joining a wagon on somebody with a bad interaction with another player.
It's better than voting Vi for liking Vi.

Then why did you give the "liking Vi" reason and none of the "bad interaction" reason?

[Nachomamma8]

You're missing my point. It's strange that you put random reasoning in but not the serious reason you apparently had. What was wrong with the way 2 responded to AK?

[Nachomamma8]

Grasping at straws seems fine in early game stages.

[Nachomamma8]

Thenewearth, with #50. Of course, nothing particularly interesting
-1

[Nachomamma8]

Hito, this is amazing.
Matt, it's to encourage scum to let me survive so they can see their high scores stack up.

[Nachomamma8]

Toasty wins Page 4 with #99.
-1

WIFOM is just hypothetical bullshit that has no point being in a discussion. Don't tell me what you would do, show me what you are doing. WIFOM is never town-motivated and sometimes scum-motivated. Mostly its just poor argumentation.

This doesn't sound like you have any measure of a scumread on him, though.

Page 5 was pretty good for townreads (Maxous, Vi), and also good for the race. Toasty is no longer in last!
-1 for #105.

I think Nib is town.

I agree. But so are cat hydra and bf hydra.

MetalSonic is the champion of page 6.

squared/tinytwo- if you have a bunch of little comments to say put them all in the same post, doing it like that will make extra pages that people will whine about and give people excuses to not bother catching up in-thread because it's sooooo looooong and yeah.

He will probably never do this, unfortunately.

Scarlet loses a point on Page 7. Weak

post_id=4933981 time=1367861443 user_id=10128 post_num=186]Well, you described yourself as a town-only role and I'm not a fan of your what-if WIFOM either.

His personality translates to all of his games, so this tell doesn't really help. But even then, I don't think I refer to hydra as lovers when I am town and masons when I am scum.

More critical eyes on the game please.

I don't pay attention to votecounts unless I put down a vote, sorry.

#194 is page 8's first big winner. There was a pretty big wall, but most of it was advice, IIoA, that sort of thing. He did manage to take a dig at Gamma for a "~reasons~" post, but that sucked a lot.
-10

[Nachomamma8]

Current Leaders:
1. 10 Sajin
2. 2 ToastyToast
3. 1 Remilla Scarlet/Thenewearth/PimHel/Nibelung

[Nachomamma8]

This game actually sucks ass so far

I'm sorry God for not assfucking this thread sooner

I'm gonna be fucking a player up the butt today

I don't want to hear your promises. I want to feel your presence.

We aren't going to get anywhere by arguing scum-hunting strategies. You won't convince me that WIFOM isn't scummy. And saying "no" to a question about putting off a rivalry for the first 3 days is not WIFOM. When I'm talking about WIFOM, I mean posing a hypothetical about what you Would do if of the other allignment.

Why are you completely ignoring me bringing up the plan in the first place? Do you really think that I would propose something like that unless I thought that there was a good chance he would say yes and stay true to his promise?

I don't think anyone can truly have a solid read on page 9--let alone day 1.

You'd be very, very surprised.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho tell me how this number thing is useful and not just handwavy bullshit:

How do the numbers change when people flip? Or does that all go away then?
Why is one per page a useful metric?
Why are you just avoiding explaining why you think some things are bad?
Why is your vote not on your highest number?

Cause on the surface this seems pretty worthless to me.

The number thing is useful and not just handwavy bullshit for me and me alone. It may improve my reads, it may not. But I want to try it and I don't think it's particularly distracting.

Numbers disappear when people flip because the numbers game is different from reads.
One per page is a useful metric because it's more than every post, and it sets up for a quick reread later and tells me how important each page in general was to me.
Because the numbers game is for me and not for you.
Because I'm not voting yet.

Your question was obv sarcastic.

It wasn't sarcastic, and we have a history together that lets buldermar/ff know that it was serious.

[Nachomamma8]

Toasty with 224, nothing big.
-1

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Gammagooey

[Nachomamma8]

CF is probably town.

[Nachomamma8]

I agree with Vi's assessment in #241, and was waiting for him to reaffirm his scumread or Matt to get off his lazy ass and read him.

[Nachomamma8]

Matt...

[Nachomamma8]

Matt...

Seriously vote Nibelung if you don't see that it's eons more worth it than a gamma vote right now holy shit

All I see is obvtown bleeding everywhere.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you associate crappy play and fence-sitting with towniness?

Where's your -1 for the last page?

Crappy play and fence-sitting runs rampant in other metas, unfortunately. He's more transparent about things than most fence-sitty newbscum, and he has evidence of having actual, real reads, unlike many other newbscum.

-1 for Scarlet, -1 for Sajin, #225

[Nachomamma8]

Gamma (For indeciseness)

Do you think indecisiveness is a scumtell?

[Nachomamma8]

http://www.lexiophiles.com/english/the- ... politeness

Get a better scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll be here.

[Nachomamma8]

You're acting as if the nail has already been out in the coffin

We are on page 12 or whatever, let's play a bit

but when you start by playing, you get lazy and you continue being lazy and scum aren't afraid
i want scum to be afraid

[Nachomamma8]

#291, Sajin -1

I think you could do your thing or vote Gamma or something

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho your vote is on Gammagooey but you haven' taken any points away from him that I could find. iso indicates a whole lot of nothing. is that the basis of your vote?

- f

It's that, a little meta, a little trust of Vi. I'm doing a little of followup on my own that takes a while because I'm easily distracted.

[Nachomamma8]

So now you can give a big pile of good shit!

[Nachomamma8]

you're in denmark. you can't strangle me.

[Nachomamma8]

so stop acting so big and tough and catch some more scum for me.

[Nachomamma8]

Please check and state if you disagree.

I definitely do not.

Anyone reading Vi as town is wrong for feeling that way right now and they make me suspicious that people are bandwagoning a subpar read

I'm wrong, but I need you to convince me better than this.

How is post #99 in anyway scummy? Because I think WIFOM is bad? Differences in scum-finding techniques does not equal scummy.

No.

nacho, instead of by page can I get your scummiest post for the entire thread this time around?

No.

heeey magua as a gesture of former baratheon hospitality you should totally read the first two sentences of saijins iso #1 and tell me if it doesn't make you glare at your computer monitor for a few seconds. Should you be willing to abuse yourself further the rest of saijins words in his first 3 posts are worth going over too and I wouldnt mind an opinion on newearth.

and vi that implication was strong enough that im pretty sure mathematicians are trying to prove it as we speak. thought i told you about the job before now since ive had it since last year though.

hey gamma
why does it feel like I'm invisible to you?

[Nachomamma8]

About Nacho, I do like his scumhunting right now. But I just don't see if it is necessary to "show (much stronger than 'show' but I just can't think of the vocabulary')" everyone that he's doing it.

I'm trying to figure out why you are transfixed on one additional element of my play. Why is it making you so paranoid?

-5, #318.
-1, #333.

Current Leaders:
1. 11 Sajin
2. 5 Gammagooey
3. 3 Toasty
4. 2 Scarlet/NewEarth
5. 1 PimHel/Nibelung

[Nachomamma8]

I definitely do not.

Alright. So do we lynch TT or that guy you're currently voting first?

- b

Gamma. Definitely Gamma.

because you following vi onto me isnt comment-worthy and i don't remember you having any strong reads that i care about. the closest thing would probably be toasty playing really similarly to how i remember him as town in the schmillion games i feel like ive played with him but i dont think he actually has a single vote on him now.

Strong reads that you care about like... my second scum read... which happens to be your strongest scumread...

I'm trying to figure out why you are transfixed on one additional element of my play. Why is it making you so paranoid?

Rather than being paranoid about it, let's just say that it's looks... interesting.

-G

In fact, it's so interesting that it's the only thing you've commented on in a really, really long time.

[Nachomamma8]

Then keep catching up.

[Nachomamma8]

yeah im not going to annoy you about saijin when you already think hes scum, complaining about how youre voting me instead of someone else you think is scum is pretty pointless and isnt going to help the game at all.

Pointless and won't help the game at all? I should be the easiest person to sell on this scumread on the entire playerlist. Getting my vote off you and onto actual scum? That would be pretty useful, I think.

[Nachomamma8]

GiF's catchup didn't go so well, I'm guessing.

[Nachomamma8]

His catchup, mainly.

[Nachomamma8]

nacho, just to clarify: your point system is ranking the "scumminess" of the player, am I right?

Yeah.

What is this statement in reference to?

HunterXHunter. Why did this statement stand out to you?

And how, exactly, do you know you have a shared alignment? I will respond to that other shit after me final.

By reading each other...? We're obviously not sure of things, but my god it's possible to read someone, isn't it?

^^^Don't you just hate it when shit like this gets by because players are "newbs"^^^

It seems to be a running joke in all games ever

And yet, he's playing better than you are.
Hmmm.

[Nachomamma8]

What does that even mean?

[Nachomamma8]

Why do you care? Am I having problems communicating?

[Nachomamma8]

you crazy kid.
no, it's not a post restriction.

[Nachomamma8]

-5 for #372. It felt too much like GiF caught up a tiny bit into the past to show that he caught up backwards, then immediately stopped doing things.
-5 for Gamma's #376.
-1 for Rem's #405.
-1 for AK's #439.

[Nachomamma8]

Actually, Nacho, I'd very much like for you to share your opinion on the above argument that ToastyToast is making as it could greatly affect how other players perceive him and I - if you don't mind.

Hold on this for a little while. The wagons are being interesting again; let me observe them for a little while. Then it's time to have a little bit more fun.

-5 for #372. It felt too much like GiF caught up a tiny bit into the past to show that he caught up backwards, then immediately stopped doing things.
-5 for Gamma's #376.
-1 for Rem's #405.
-1 for AK's #439.

You got this from Vollkan in Gay Mafia, right?

Sort of.

[Nachomamma8]

^ ...After arguing with you in my head and thinking mean thoughts about you, I have come to the conclusion that you're right.

@Nacho, give me -100 points.

Why?

Nacho, did you pick this up from somewhere? As in another player did it before you?

Maybe? It doesn't feel like an original idea, but I can't remember specifically who I got it from. Probably camn.

Re: Vi / Gammagooey. Seriously don't like the back and forth between the two, almost entirely because between Vi's snark and Gamma's lulz attitudes, it's just a more sardonic version of "You're scum, nuh uh, you are, nuh uh," etc.

It is pretty much entirely this, but background shows that it ends up being a little more.

Nacho, please tell me if ToastyToast is scum or not and apply the law of the excluded middle.

I'll answer this question again. I have a strong scum read again, but I'd like to strengthen my read before responding.

Nacho's point system is superficially awful and I wanted him to throw me a bone on why that system and why use it in this game; he is not willing to so I have to wait and expect some sort of application at some time.

The system is separate from the rest of my scumhunting.

[Nachomamma8]

-5, #472 (Remembrance).
-5, #487 (Toasty).
-1, #504 (AM).
-5, #543 (Gamma)!
-1, #586 (Remembrance).

[Nachomamma8]

Current Leaders:
1. 15 Gammagooey
2. 11 Sajin
3. 8 Toasty
4/5. 7 Scarlet/Rem
6. 2 NewEarth
7/8/9/10. 1 PimHel/Nibelung/Amethyst Kitty/AngstyMatters

[Nachomamma8]

Please choose your favorite response from the choices seen below

Last time Vi and Gamma played together, Vi nailed the fuck out of him and daykilled him at the end of Day 1. The move to say "hey, let's work together" gives Gamma the opportunity to watch Vi heavily while directing Vi's scumhunting abilities to good places, but Gamma sort of dismissed him in a weak way. Slight scum read because I expected something different, but not anything more than "hey, I should watch him for this sort of thing". My approach to ^2 was similar to Vi's because ^2 is pretty good reading me as a whole, but sometimes it takes me a little while to scumread on them. So, not only do I get to gauge their reactions to the initial deal, but we get to be nice and cozy for the rest of the game so I can be sure to solidify the read on them (since buldermar isn't the type to break a deal, and if he does this game, then I'm correcting an incorrect assumption).

See because I think that your boring pointless-informationy 1st post is more likely to come from scum than town since it consists of a semi-game related comment that looks like relevant content without actually being useful to the game at all, and the posts after it share those almost-related comments that I think are an actually decent scumtell for early game shenanigans.

and vi im pretty sure you know that I have an actual job now and that the last post I made was actually while AT work. saying that im lurking through things when its been less than 24 hours since my last post is a pretty big pile of horseshit.

The response to Vi is a little overblown, considering that the accusation was fair, he doesn't really have a scumread on Vi for the attack, and yeah, he's at work, but... the accusation was correct, as demonstrated by Gamma feeling the need to explain it all away.

yeah im not going to annoy you about saijin when you already think hes scum, complaining about how youre voting me instead of someone else you think is scum is pretty pointless and isnt going to help the game at all.

Gamma's ignoring me because paying attention to me isn't going to help the game? That sounds like a lot a lot a lot of bullshit.

but you arent going to unvote me or think i look town because of me addressing you and bugging you to vote someone else. I could throw more words at Saijin but I think you already understand why I think hes scum from what Ive posted so far. you will unvote me if you think i look town because I look town because of my opinions on the rest of the game, and id bet some pretty decent money on you voting saijin once that happens.

And THIS "you'll see I'm town in a little while" is strange coming from Gamma, especially if his plan is to just weak-tunnel on Sajin for the rest of the game and not really give any thoughts elsewhere.

aaalso im pretty sure ive got more stated opinions out than you at this point, and last time i checked im the one whos said i dont mind being a hypocrite to do the things I want =3

Stated Opinions:
Sajin is scum
???
????

[Nachomamma8]

Why are you completely ignoring me bringing up the plan in the first place? Do you really think that I would propose something like that unless I thought that there was a good chance he would say yes and stay true to his promise?

Your question was obv sarcastic. He still responded with unnecessary WIFOM. He doesn't get to tell me what he would do as mafia--that's for me to figure out. And if he knows, as mafia, that he would kill you before D3, then why would he reveal that information? If he's town, scum can just kill you before D3 and then plant suspicion on 2. Not that the town will admit to falling for it, but its going to have an affect on their opinion of 2. If he's scum, then he could just NOT kill you and do the same thing. My point is that WIFOM is useless, and if you are doing useless things as town you need to L2P.

I responded to this, mind following up?

Get out of Nacho's ass and act on your own.
+Scum points for buddying, +scum points for relying on others to make decisions for you (sheeping is not inherently scummy, but it is when you state a clear opinion then ASK someone else if it's okay. What town player in their right mind would do that?)

You're still missing my side of things.

Hey Toast. ² isn't getting lynched Today. Next suspect please.

I find Metal Sonic and Remilia scummy atm. Will get into it after teh paper writing.

What happened to this?

And how, exactly, do you know you have a shared alignment? I will respond to that other shit after me final.

Shallow attack.

1) honestly I'm just having a hard time understanding this first paragraph. I don't think disagreements are scummy, and the fact that I am against WIFOM in all my games means my use of it is null.

Then why is 2's use of WIFOM scummy?

2) But using awareness of your own alignment when no one else knows your alignment is not going to convince anyone. Cool beans, you can prove it to yourself, but unless I know what the alignment of the person being voted it, I cannot buy their "wagon analysis" case. So yeah, as you say, it only has merit if your alignment is revealed.

He was using this as a reason to vote you. You called him using this as a reason "ridiculous". Why is this ridiculous? It's clearly for himself and not to convince anyone unless they have a pretty strong townread on him.

Ok. I disagreed with your use of a wagon analysis, but I did not undermine it. In fact, i asked you to clarify what makes my hop scummier than the other hops. Which you explained, but I will follow up with this: RVS votes have a lot less information in them, so of course an actual reason is going to catch more flack than one. The problem is you are acting like I was just "jumping on the bandwagon," and throwing out a reason to rationalize it. But I was voting for something I thought was scummy, which is irrelevant of the amount of people on your wagon. Should I just avoid what I see and not join a wagon because of how many people are on it? I'm pretty sure you'd say no.

Obviously not, but his original point wasn't that "the wagon is big and thus Toasty is scum for being wagonner #x".

If I know your reasons were based on a wagon hop, and that you believed my vote was scummier then others, then how the hell am I "ignoring the fact that you've already explained why I consider your vote scummier than the others?" I asked the question because I was not the only person who had reasons for voting you. So your claim that I lied or just ignored something is completely wrong. And even if I did miss a post with an explanation why, that doesn't make me scummy. It makes me lazy.

Okay, cool.
I don't think 2 was "throwing shit". I think they were confronting you on missing something in their ISO, which is a fine place to focus on if you claim to ISO them. Don't you agree?

[Nachomamma8]

...remembrance's setup spec is the kind of "town trying to break setup through flavor" that is quite common among newer players...

His play otherwise is not anything close to what I expect out of him and is quite common among newer scum players.

[Nachomamma8]

cause i don't see why newbscum getting called out on setup spec:

Because he wasn't called out on setup spec.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't get his remembrance scumread.

I'm not familiar with Rem's scumgame, but I'm very familiar with his towngame. He hasn't demonstrated anything close to his towngame so far, so I'm holding back and seeing if he gives me something interesting or he keeps on weakposting.

[Nachomamma8]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=850

This is his only completed scumgame on site.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho, re: Remembrance meta: Already I see he's so much more on the straight and narrow (conservative?) that scum game than he usually is. Does his play here remind you of it? Shit like #471 makes me think not -- I've seen him devolve into self-pathos before as town like that (Check this game toward EoD1 before he gets modkilled)

Not really at all, which is why I don't find him scum. His posting is just lacking in general and I don't like to see that.

Can you please elaborate?

If you don't want to read, sheeping is also acceptable.

Thenewearth hasn't been on the board for a while, but comes up from behind with a -5 for #661!

[Nachomamma8]

Plus that claim without NO PRESSURE AT ALL.

Now you go above FS/Oversoul and Sonic

VOTE: Rem

This vote is horrible.

Some people are softly commenting on why they're going elsewhere, but there's no real direct opposition. I'm not sure what to make of that.

I'm not expecting there to be that much resistance because he's lurking like hell and it's pretty difficult to defend a partner who is lurking and not really giving you any reasons to call them town.

Vi, how sure are you about Gamma? This post looks quite town to me. In particular the stuff about rem and newearth shows that Gamma is paying attention, I think.

He pays attention as scum; he just doesn't post anything significant in thread. This is par for the course.

a bit subjective for a lynch

Most cases in mafia are subjective. Do you think that Gamma is town?

[Nachomamma8]

-1, #600 (AM)
-1, #637 (Rem)
-1, #669 (TNE)
-5, #699 (TNE)
-5, #704 (TNE)
-10, #732 (Gamma)

[Nachomamma8]

I think 29 is the only page in this entire game that doesn't have a ^2 post on it.

[Nachomamma8]

I do that as town all the time. Is the meta really convincing? I don't want to read it, I just want you and/or Vi to say either "no, not entirely sure" or "yes, I'm positive that he's scum" so I know what to think if he flips town.

I am positive that he's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

-10, #732 (Gamma)

Can I get a rationale for this pls?

A counterwagon to his is forming, so he drops his Sajin read even though Sajin hasn't really done anything and throws on a quick vote for TNE and starts posturing for a harder push like it's a case he made himself.

I don't feel like Gamma's play should have gathered as many votes as it has.

It wouldn't if we weren't familiar with his play.

Curious to why TNE's Vote on Rem is terrible nacho. I think the whole exchange between them is terrible, but more so on Rem's part.

Because Rem is town and the vote came at a really strange time.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't think that I would have to worry about quicklynches in this game.

[Nachomamma8]

You declared intent at L-2 and before Gamma checked in. I'm not concerned about his flip, I'm concerned about last minute reads.

[Nachomamma8]

-1 (Tie between #767 and #768) (CF Riot)
-1 #797 (Sajin)
-5, #815 (Sajin)

Now I will probably have to find a better question to get him to post meaningful content because its likely he will just steal your answer.

-5, #832 (Metal Sonic)

[Nachomamma8]

21 "-1"s total, leaders:
Sajin, TNE, Rem, Toasty
3 each, for 9 total out of 21 given

11 "-5"s total, leaders:
TNE, Gamma, 3 each

2 "-10"s total. given to:
Gamma (2), Sajin

Final Leaderboard coming in a minute since my counting was obviously bad somewhere

[Nachomamma8]

My last minute reads, I could care less about his.
And yeah, it was bad regardless of the flip >.>

[Nachomamma8]

Current Leaders (Day 1 Champions!):

1. Gamma: 25
2. Sajin: 18
3. TNE: 13
4/5. ToastyToast/Remembrance: 8
6*.Metal Sonic: 5
7. Remilla Scarlet: 6
8. AngstyMatters: 2
9/10/11/12 Nibelung/Magua/Amethyst Kitty/CF Riot: 1

*- Points are not official until page is finished.

[Nachomamma8]

Curious as to the flip of Gamma.

Why did you say this?

[Nachomamma8]

really really.

[Nachomamma8]

Next.

Vote: AngstyMatters

(L-10)

And here I thought we would be on the same page with this one.

...

VOTE: Remembrance

can we go after this one please?

and nacho, tell me why this scumfuck is town.

I've decided that Scarlet's meta read on him was pretty accurate.

Vote: Sajin

I'd much rather move here.

[Nachomamma8]

hopefully i won't get lynched over the logic of "experienced player nails scum so all their reads are accurate", at least apply some critical thinking about the likelihood of my posts coming from town or scum. Likewise, hoping my arguments aren't devalued because i was wrong about gamma.

I'm lynching you because MattP's been close to non-existent in posting in your hydra, whereas he's been plenty active elsewhere on site, and disinterested MattP is the same thing I saw in Gay Mafia II.

Disinterested, but not a non-presence. That scum MattP was in thread posting shit plenty, whereas this MattP is completely leaving his partner out to dry with posting as scum. I also don't seem to recall him making promises that he'd get into the game constantly; that read more to me like he was trying to kick himself into gear and just not making it whereas he was consistently underwhelming in Gay Mafia II but really didn't talk about it at all. I've also been a pretty big fan on 4nxi3ty's posting lately. Have you found issue with it?

I dislike AngtsyMatters voting record and just general post content. I feel like he was trying to actively take away from the gamma wagon too.

Vote AngstyMatters

And hp, I think that we can all agree that this was definitely the shittiest hop on the AM wagon.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Sajin

I'd much rather move here.

Gamma's first vote was a bus?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Hell yes.

@Nacho, so you disagree with AM distracting from gamma wagon several times? He ended his vote on Rem Scarlet (likely town because of kurapika), He voted 2, dead town earlier in the day and myself (who I know to be town). Thats 3 votes(2 for everyone else) that were on town. If you think it is a shitty vote, you must disagree with the assertion that AM was distracting from gamma wagon, right? (Maxous goes into a detailed post analysis for AM distracting from gamma wagon in 944)

I don't care how many townies he voted, really. His thought process was genuine. Do I think he was distracting from the Gamma wagon? No. I doubt 4nxi3ty nor MattP would care about Gamma going down D1. MattP definitely wouldn't care about Gamma going down, considering Vi pushing him and what happened last time those two were on a scumteam together.

You also think my vote was worse than a couple of the others? Please.

Nacho, what do you think about Metal Sonic?

It was the worst. I think Metal Sonic is town as fuck.

Anxiety, what do YOU think about Sajin?

[Nachomamma8]

He questioned you like twice, 12 days ago. And how was he looking for Gamma's partners near the end of yesterday? All I noticed him doing was waffling on the hammer and scratching his beard as he wondered what Gamma would flip.

I'll write something up on MS later, but implosion's #932 is pretty solid already. What's your disagreement with that?

[Nachomamma8]

if he was reading along he would've definitely known gamma has played before

Do you think that he's reading along all that closely?

scum would let his buddy use a fakeclaim instead of hammering? not neccesasarily. If the scumteam was already committed to getting towncred by bussing a buddy, they wouldn't really care about the claim, seeing as they wouldn't be planning on saving gamma.

If the scumteam was already committed to bussing Gamma (meaning they coordinated with Daytalk while they did so), I don't think MS wouldn't have to pull such an abrupt switch and hammer, do you?

[Nachomamma8]

yeah wasn't at the end of yesterday, more in the middle. When Saijin was questioning MS about gamma.

"Alright, I found scum, Now who is the buddy..." is the convo I can see running through his head.

same thing happening today with Saijin questioning you and Carbonfiber

I'll look into this more later.
Who are your other suspects?

[Nachomamma8]

-5, #869 (Sajin)
-1, #881 (Magua)
-1, #905 (Remembrance)
-5, #936 (Metal Sonic)
-5, #958 (Sajin)

[Nachomamma8]

reading along closely? nope. That's my whole point with his shallow reads, like the pimhel one, just trying to maintain and survive.

He's not reading anything closely, but I don't think that has to do with his alignment.

would a scum team be able to coach sonic to hammer correctly? maybe, depends on their teamwork, how active the daytalk qt is, and how likely it is for sonic to make his own decisions.

If they have teamwork that is good enough to go "hey, let's bus gamma", I think Sonic would figure out to follow along.

other suspects? like I said before, mostly got nulls. I do have one other suspect, but I am not ready to lay that card on the table yet.

Don't care if they're nulls, they should lean one way or the other. Give me some reads.

[Nachomamma8]

Also CF is scummy as all hell this game.

[Nachomamma8]

I am skipping through stuff but I agree with is a bizarrely postured post, and I ADDITIONALLY think, Nacho, that Sajin's post right after Gamma's lynch seems genuine in relation to lack of knowledge of Gamma's alignment

"Curious as to the flip of Gamma" sounded fake as hell, and the fact that his reaction was "Oh. That was terrible. Not cool." didn't really seem too natural either. He was pushing Gamma for a long, long time so I expected something more of a reaction to a quickhammer than that. #849 had him answering all the questions that people asked him earlier, which I lean scum more than I lean town about, so I'm actually pretty interested in what specifically you found genuine there.

[Nachomamma8]

CF Riot
Magua
ToastyToast
Maxous

I'd also like your opinion on these players.

[Nachomamma8]

if you don't mind, baby
that was so formal and so robotic i'm sorry

[Nachomamma8]

sorry to hear that, hope to see you around elsewhere!
i really liked your play this game...

[Nachomamma8]

so, what is the hypothetical scum motivation for Nibelung?

Hypothetical scum motivation would be losing D1 lynch followed up with not being able to secure a D2 mislynch.

This is horrible and I could pretty much lynch you happily based on this post alone.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho can you explain the CF scum read please?

He defended the fuck out of Gamma in a way that was far scummier than AM's blatant, genuine defense.

Vi gave his reason and I assume Nacho is sheeping or adding pressure for his own reasons. I didn't read your wall so I missed what you said about gamma but having read it now it's hella weak.

Vote: Sajin

@PMatt I think Chrome can translate most of those pages.

He notices me sheeping and adding pressure for my own reasons, never asks me my reasons but continues to resist the wagon.

For me it's this. This is Sajin's support for his vote on Gamma. I don't find this to be a particularly strong reason to think someone is scum, and Sajin's vote was placed shortly after 2 other votes on Gamma while Sajin had 2 votes himself, which makes the timing look opportunistic.

Attacking Sajin for a weak vote on Gamma is nothing more than a shitty chainsaw defense.

I agree with the TNE scumreads. I think Sonic is kind of suspect but not top of my list. I don't feel like Gamma's play should have gathered as many votes as it has. I still suspect Sajin. I feel like Vi sort of deflected my conversation with him about Sajin and I will be watching him closely. I think I remember not liking a post by Kalimar somewhere in the last 5ish pages but I'll look that up again. Still comfortable with my vote on Sajin.

Agreeing with the Gamma counterwagon coming up, soft-defending Gamma but not being aggressive in making people to provide reasons, the "not liking a post by Kalimar in the last 5 pages" shit which just sucks.

lol, really Nacho? -1 for a prod dodge?

This post is scummy as fuck considering Gamma was quickhammered and one of his "kind of suspects" was the culprit.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Magua

I'm stuck trying to figure out whether I want to kill you or your partners.
But I'm definitely satisfied doing this today.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh man all I needed was some cheeky scumfucks to give me the inspiration I need. Gonna do some hardcore reading later and make buldey proud.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nachomamma: on Sajin: Do you think ISO #8 and 9's Sajin commentary from Gamma was a bluff, then? It seems quite self-defeating to try and deflect attention onto another scum member like that at that early point of the game. It'd be early enough in the game to try something like that and distance from it - but it seems quite unambitious. In the Mafia in La La Land game his initial scumbuddy vote at the start was given a flimsy reason, was hopped off fairly fast and wasn't pushed anywhere near as much as the Sajin one was.

Actually, no. I'm rereading Sajin a bit, and I think that he's a false positive. I like my Magua and CF Riot and ToastyToast reads a whollle lot more.

[Nachomamma8]

Metal Sonic bussing was a hypothetical and doesn't reflect my actual thoughts at all. Your other two questions were answered. One of them was answered in the post you quoted.

[Nachomamma8]

Now I just want to wait for Matt and CF to become alive again.

CF probably won't come alive because he's scum.
Matt's doing whatever the hell matt does, but I'm pretty happy with 4nxi3ty at the moment.
I would personally love to see Vi step it up a little bit more than anyone else because I would love his opinion and I lost my town to bounce things off and this game isn't as active as I want it to be because people are fucking up.

1) we don't even know if ^2 was killed by scum
2) He didn't exactly scream obvtown
3) Its all hypothetical. Scum could just as easily have killed ^2 because it makes the suspicion on me go up quite a bit. Like, A LOT, actually.

1) We have a damn good idea.
2) He was town enough.
3) And you know you can hide behind this easily. Why not kill him?

Well, I had suspected MS for a while before I switched (even moreso than ^2), but I was in a 1 on 1 bitchfest vs ^2. There was no way that switch wasn't going to look clunky. And squared wasn't getting lynched so....yeah, I hopped to my scum-read that had a chance of being lynched.

What do you mean about not being able to make a switch that didn't look clunky?

Read the fucking game, figure it out yourself.
And since I was wrong about squared, you move up in my scum list. congratz. Because you throw shit at everyone and just wait for something to latch on.

Wow.

[Nachomamma8]

Now this is the Vi I like.

Vote: ToastyToast

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, that's exactly why I'm saying basing a scum read on "possibilities" can't be done. Why not kill him? Why kill him? Why not kill him if they will think it'd be too obvious for me to kill him and therefore won't kill him? See my point? You aren't going to get anywhere using such an argument.

Okay, let me rephrase that: The argument sucks. No one cares. You asking like people care about that argument? Bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Toasty, do you have any reads you think I'd like?

[Nachomamma8]

Toasty, do you have any reads you think I'd like?

I think you are town <3 xoxo

you know what I want, and it ain't this.
what do you think of my other scumreads?

I believe Nacho is town and based on that I'm willing to hear what he has for reads.

What's your read on Remembrance?

[Nachomamma8]

I got early bad vibes on this guy, starting here. Note the bolded. He mentions having trouble translating certain names then lists Kurapika and Chrollo. Having just gotten done reading the part of the rules that mentioned the scumteam has fakeclaims, I felt like this guy threw out both his role name and that of his fakeclaim. Overly paranoid, probably, but it gave me a reason to keep my eye on this guy.

Paranoid, considering Kurapika has flipped.

He points a finger at squared rather than voting, even though he admits it was a scumtell for himself in the past? Why not just vote 2? He also later says all the games he's played in over six years were incredibly short, fast-paced games, so this voting caution is wildly out of character for him.

Not necessarily. In faster games, sometimes you don't exactly have time to fuck around; a vote is a vote to kill, instantly.

my Nacho case involves Nacho having a townread on him before he had any reason to say so.

This is stupid. I don't pick up on townreads as scum unless I can back them up decently, and it's never impossible for someone to pick up on a townread before you do. Just means that I'm looking at things that you're not.

Remilia's vote for president thing was scummier than that.

Not my opinion.

See the similarity in the bolded? In this game he wants scum "to be afraid" and in the other he wants "to be a threat to CES as scum". This also ties into my earlier mention of Nacho's #93: that post has a similar flavor to this posturing Nacho does when scum.

One was retroactive reasoning to explain why I was so interested in CES, the other was trying to get Matt to do something because he's being a lazy little shit.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but I was hardly inspired to vote Gamma by that point. Why, then, did Nacho? He had other people on his radar, so why vote Gamma at that particular time? The answer is that Nacho had found the Jam and Berkeley game that 2 later linked; he mentions it explicitly in his #624. That's the only reason I can think of Nacho voted Gamma at that point. He found that game and, seeing that Gamma's actions here were similar to his actions in that game, decided right then and there to "trust" her and bus his mate.

I was in that game. I had similar thoughts. So I sheeped Vi.

[Nachomamma8]

now HERE's what I'm talking about.
What do you think of the theory that Remilla Scarlet was targetted by OS during the night and thus is confirmed town?

[Nachomamma8]

I still RS is probably scum

Think*

I've played in a game, still going on, with Metal. I'll have to check if his play is similar but my gut lies with RS

These are his last two posts, after the lynch was hammered. I don't think we'll find a crumb that's clearer than that.

[Nachomamma8]

But those two were the last posts, so it had that conclusive feel. It seems strange to hide a breadcrumb almost before your last post, then make something that's SERIOUSLY a breadcrumb in your last post.

[Nachomamma8]

He's freshly baked, so he isn't as crumbly as you are.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm surprised at how active MS is at defending himself.

And that he's only active at defending.

VOTE: Metal Sonic

he's not scum quit doing this

CF's ISO takes 2-3 minutes.

And it's all disappointment.

cause outside of the tunnel gamma, vi hasn't done anything that stands out as town.
with how vi tunnels right off the bat and painted anti-movements as scummy makes me wonder if it was a bus while setting up future mislynches.

This isn't Vi's scumgame. Gamma has absolutely nothing to do with it.

post_id=4976911 time=1369341084 user_id=10128 post_num=1089]I may also add that Toasttoast is p town

I'm listening.

Was that town slip legit?

Probably.

[Nachomamma8]

(hey Syryana post in this fucking thread instead of reading books)

[Nachomamma8]

and do other things too? that'd be cool.

[Nachomamma8]

lazy fuck

[Nachomamma8]

No, he's just saying he's bussing.

[Nachomamma8]

And then there's Metal Sonic being so obviously, obviously terrible town that I actually have trouble fathoming anyone who says otherwise. This isn't "I think you're wrong, but can see where you're coming from," this is "I would prefer to think that you are a lying scumbag because if you legitimately believe the things coming out of your mouth, we share no common reality."

hey I actually liked this post.

was being extremely lazy with his reads,

Please read his games.

[Nachomamma8]

unvote:metalsonic

^^more votes on this
Love,
Nacccy

[Nachomamma8]

[Nachomamma8]

RS.

[Nachomamma8]

Oh. But I don't think he meant that either, I think he just wanted your reads so he could get something out of you. I don't think he actually wanted you to give him reads he would "like"

Yes. I would love for you to work with me more because I have no idea where you're coming from Toasty.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't mind chatting with scumreads as they're dying. There's always the chance that I'm wrong, and more interactions with me will strengthen/weaken the read.

[Nachomamma8]

I want to talk about them more and would like if you do things without me telling you to. I don't have the attention to do this today, but we'll chat tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Sure, Vi is probably town but I don't think anyone would have been able to deduce that before Gamma's flip. There was nothing significantly townish about her.

Vi started looking town when he tried to cozy up with Gamma and got so coldly rejected. There's also a lack of posturing-image crafting in his posting, which sort of reassures me a lot.

Incidentally, unless fferylit is an infomancer and I'm not aware of it, that unprompted willingness to go through a bunch of meta games until she found what I was talking about is incredibly Town. It's so Town that it shoots TOWNLASERS from its eyes. It's so Town that it dresses up in green spandex with a giant golden T emblazoned on its chest and runs around town beating up organized crime supervillains. (But no capes.) It's so Town that it splashes ToastyToast (whose 363 is actually terrible and should in no way give you a Town read) with red paint because he inexplicably still has a vote on the squareslot.

Also scum Vi can't make me smile like town Vi can.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't know that.

I think TNE is town as fuck.
Also I really like your play this game so let's talk sometime.

[Nachomamma8]

you.

[Nachomamma8]

CF Riot
Magua
ToastyToast
Maxous

I'd also like your opinion on these players.

I need to ISO all of them

[Nachomamma8]

just don't forget <3

[Nachomamma8]

matt go back to lurking pls

[Nachomamma8]

Vote:thenewearth

newearth saying that rem claiming that he's town and implying that its scummy because he wasnt pressured is awful and listing who rememberance is going above in scum reads is really unceccessary- it seems like justification just for the sake of having it. ill try to explain this better later today actually but im heading out for mothers day stuff in a few minutes.

@hp- most recent one was already linked I think but its here -http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23492 , all the rest of them are on my wiki: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gammagooey

[Nachomamma8]

look at the need to explain the vote on the counterwagon
that's not a need you feel when you're bussing a buddy
get out

[Nachomamma8]

finally, a real scumread.

[Nachomamma8]

thenewearth+
CF Riot
Magua* PimHel
ToastyToast+

[Nachomamma8]

What those are the scum or sumthin

i'm tired as fuck but all those people could die, yeah

[Nachomamma8]

I want name, flavor, everything thenewearth

so do i.
also how the hell do my scumpoints system harm the town? and why didn't you say anything when I dropped the system, TNE?

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah... Like I'll do that on a whim with nothing on me

i'm sure we can yell up a wagon on you if you'd like.
Matt and I are already ready and Vi is always down for lynching with extreme hatred and prejudice.
It's a puppy's destiny.

[Nachomamma8]

So... Really? Suddenly listening to angsty after you disagree with him?

Retract that town read...

I thought you had 90% scumreads on people, and a 60% townread on me.
It's a bit... hypocrisy for you to vote me for flipping reads, don't you think?

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Oi. You have yourself to blame.

I only have myself to blame for calling you town once upon a time?
This is true, and a damn shame. Thank god for the 180.

[Nachomamma8]

TNE isn't going to claim until people start waking up

He's also probably not gonna post here again because he's caught scum.
both of these realities are OK

[Nachomamma8]

I'm going to bed.

hey don't be frustrated, we caught scum tonight

[Nachomamma8]

although i'm loathe to shut down this toasty wagon when it's so close to being resolved and it'll hit scum too
decisions, decisions

[Nachomamma8]

but just for clarity's sake, could someone explain the full outline for this maneuver?

can't explain things fully until TNE claims
enough is certainly on the table for a fun response

[Nachomamma8]

Matt, help me lynch ToastyToast.

[Nachomamma8]

Busy until tomorrow

[Nachomamma8]

Matt that was BEAUTIFUL
That's what I want to see from you
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Vote: hp [leaves]

My town block is back.

[Nachomamma8]

also liking magua more

And b4 all you flavor pplz freak out he is alligned with the good guys in the story arc this game is supposed to take place in.

kind of?

post_id=4989386 time=1369764818 user_id=10128 post_num=1425]occam's razor. Even if we're wrong, AM will be confirmed scum.

VOTE: thenewearth

this posts sucks big time

The New earth looks like a solid lynch.

Vote: TheNewEarth

holy shit you found 3 of them
holy fucking shit

There's nothing wrong with that post.

you know that feeling when you know someone is scum but you're not killing them because you're too busy wrecking all of their buddies?
yeah.
i see you, scum riot.

[Nachomamma8]

oh fuck monkey replaced nibelung

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah toasty

[Nachomamma8]

Listen to this song on repeat because I won't be able to kill you today.

[Nachomamma8]

But soon. Matt will follow Vi today, then he'll find another scum, then I'll die and people will kill you. It'll be wonderful.

[Nachomamma8]

Is mass claiming optimal play here?

scum lost their disruptive roles

we have already claimed, and I don't imagine there being a stronger investigative role.

fuck no since then you will die faster
scum lost disruptive roles, scum will lose more roles very soon
doctor protects you while you do whatever the hell you do

[Nachomamma8]

D1-You vote for Sajin--???--Day 2 you vote for me--???--Day 3 you vote for Maxous. There is no continuity in your posting.

yeah all his votes suck except the one on you

I'm also kind of just sheeping the people championing these lynches, namely Vi, Nacho, AM, Remembrance.

Do you think I'm scum stuck in confirmation bias or do you know the reasons why I suspect you?

[Nachomamma8]

Very little. There's a sadly large number of people that I'm null on because they just blend together in my mind, and Riot is one of them. I blame Hito for not making me a vig like he promised.

I'm getting bored because we're not quicklynching hp. Am I still a null that blends together in your mind?

I do think the connection b/w hpleaves and TNE is suspect and scummy, but its not enough for me to vote him. At least not now. I still have a strong gut town read on him.
Plus he's on V/LA so its not really worth pushing atm.

What caused that gut read?

If there's more than that I don't know about it.

We've been out of touch all game and you seem to be the epitome of a scumcoaster? But while we're waiting for hp to die, you can change my mind! What are your reads? What are your feelings?

Last time I checked no one else has given all of their reads in light of the TNE flip. Fuck off.

But that's mainly because we're quicklynching hp. You're not.
Soooo

[Nachomamma8]

If I knew I wouldn't call it a gut read.

your gut read activates when you see people post things
your gut doesn't come out of nowhere

How does that change the situation at all?

Because we're satisfied with the day and you're not.

[Nachomamma8]

I could make you unbored.... But I would much rather more people examine CF riot. Besides HP leaves on vacation is kinda pointless to vote unless the plan is quicklynching...which I am not a huge fan of.

what about CF do you want to examine with me?

[Nachomamma8]

=====[]?

[Nachomamma8]

implosion you're town as fuck, don't ever change

[Nachomamma8]

hammer also SUPER town, ftr

[Nachomamma8]

i knew vi was town



i love how we have a perfect mafia lynch record, keep it up please dont spoil the lynch streak

Nacho, when you get here I want your thoughts on this. This post bothers me.

~Mara

I didn't like it either, to be honest. I'm going to switch around reads a little.
But a read that stuck?

Vote: ToastyToast

Coincidence that all of MS' votes on scum happened when the lynch was a foregone conclusion?

not THAT sold.

[Nachomamma8]

syryana you have 37 fucking posts and none of them rock

[Nachomamma8]

It's not a contradiction. I wasn't against it but I was voting someone else I was for.

My role let's me put a hit on a person so other roles can kill them when otherwise they couldn't. Was sitting on this but L-3 is close enough for me. I submit the hit during the day so you can still lynch me and I think it will still be active during the night. Used it on hp N2 cause Vi made a post about him needing to be vigged. Will take suggestions for who to target today.

Maxous, please!

syryana is a potential suspect

nacho give me your opinion on her

I want him to keep posting but I don't really think he's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

carbonfiber is also on my radar for doing much less than fuck-all
where the hell are you guys?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm debating whether or not I should call my target in thread or not. I don't really see what comes from it other than possible town-points from you guys which I don't really care about, and I feel like it opens the door for scum shenanigans if they have any.

Scum shenanigans dealing with you as opposed to dealing with the townies who are a little more transparently town isn't necessarily a horrible thing. I'm in favor of you calling out your target in thread.

[Nachomamma8]

The more I look at this the more I wonder if scum would absolutely try and make sure they were on one of the top two wagons that day. Double scum wagon seems like the kinda thing that scum is going to be really really making sure they're on one of.

If that has any credence then we're barking up the wrong tree with both Syr and Maxous

*yawn*

[Nachomamma8]

Syrnanas, what do you think of Maxous and Toasty?
Also, why did you agree with Vi saying 2 scum are in a group of 3 people that included you...?

[Nachomamma8]

I wouldn't begin to know. Maybe the killer was blocked, or didn't agree with me, or didn't submit, or leaves was protected. There are lots of possibilities but I don't have any info you don't.

but actually do you know what would be really cool?
if someone is actually related to your role, they can claim and confirm you as town. otherwise I think you should sort of die.

[Nachomamma8]

The more I look at this the more I wonder if scum would absolutely try and make sure they were on one of the top two wagons that day. Double scum wagon seems like the kinda thing that scum is going to be really really making sure they're on one of.

If that has any credence then we're barking up the wrong tree with both Syr and Maxous

*yawn*

not really in the mood for any more condescension this game. What's the fucking problem?

5 scum total
3 scum already confirmed on one of those two wagons, so you're close, but it's not so conclusive where it's a strong point. So maybe true? But not that strong.

[Nachomamma8]

not really in the mood for any more condescension this game. What's the fucking problem?

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't particularly feel like pissing you off when I didn't mean to be condescending in the first place, so.

[Nachomamma8]

@thenewearth:

Would I be correct in saying FSnake/Oversoul is your only scum read in the game?

A little questioning.

re you accusing them of lurking while they are v/la?

A little questioning...

But no vote.

-10, #732 (Gamma)

Can I get a rationale for this pls?

The timing of this? Also pretty fucking weird.

MS was a higher scum-read than squared but you were pretty slow to talk about him imo. (again until Nacho asked directly to explain the read)

A little posturing getting ready to jump on TT's wagon.

I'll probably support this TT wagon.

You said you would... never did.

So I don't like how he's interacted with pretty much every single scum with the exception of hp leaves, his interactions with TT are sketchy as fuck, and I really haven't liked anything that I've seen out of the slot. So...

[Nachomamma8]

This is even more rolefishy than normal due to how this role allegedly works. You cut a link in the chain and the whole chain is worthless.

But it's also a way to confirm him as town, which is more important at this point.

p-edit: that is not an explanation for anything, #1747 has no weight behind it and is a total change in tone from #1743 where you're basically laughing what I said off.

p-p-edit: k, you're me, how do you take #1743?

"Why is it boring?"

[Nachomamma8]

Why? He can pretty much self confirm without outing anyone. He designates a target, if that target is alive in the morning, we go from there.

OK.

Consider it asked. Or just explain #1747 better.

The idea that scum would be on both wagons is proven true by the fact that the first 3 scum we caught were on those two wagons. That doesn't mean that the other scum didn't behave differently, and it definitely doesn't mean we should discount suspects who were off those wagons because it's assuming the behavior of the entire scumteam and VCA cannot do that.

[Nachomamma8]

This (Remilia and nacho) is town on town. Your both pretty.

<3

What do you think of Maxous and Toasty?

[Nachomamma8]

same here

you're voting TT at the moment

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Maxous

[Nachomamma8]

I think toasty is probably town actually.

i would love for CF to put out a hit on him because I would love for him to die
hint
hint

[Nachomamma8]

if anyone else has received artifacts, then he's probably a fruit vendor
if you explode during the night, then we sort of know a really good place to look

[Nachomamma8]

Monkeyman's role that sent RS a gift during N1.

[Nachomamma8]

The important part is that we remember Maxous today, ToastyToast tomorrow.
It's a mantra that I'll never forget, that's for sure.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not sure I understand the case on Maxous.

His play after D1 was crap and coasty. His reaction while TNE was getting caught out by AM was literally "I don't get this", and then he didn't check in 10 minutes later for an explanation, a reaction, nothing. He just ignored it. When he was attacked by Magua, he was debunked hard and then he sketchily tried to back off. Didn't lynch either scum; hopped around a ton of places D1, but never ended up on the Gamma or TNE wagons despite the fact that neither of them were townreads. Sheeped the hell out of Vi onto AM, completely ignored it when she went onto ToastyToast.

It's a glorious, glorious lynch.
No reason not to, really.

[Nachomamma8]

I think Maxous is probably scum. Maxous/TNE relationships seem like forced distancing. No votes, just calling out TNE on irrelevant questions.

are you going to vote him, or...?

[Nachomamma8]

Would also like CarbonFiber to give some more substantive content on the next day. Can we expect more activity from you soon?

how about they provide fucking anything today
i'm actually more in favor of those two getting shot than I am Toasty getting shot; at least we know he'll defend himself and talk with us and give us

something

.

[Nachomamma8]

why did you choose Sajin N1?

[Nachomamma8]

also gimmie dat flavor
I want it.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: CarbonFiber

[Nachomamma8]

Do you find their absence scummy, their posts, or both/neither?

Both.

[Nachomamma8]

More bad logic. How is it verifiable? If we keep bouncing b/w people and then, after they claim, say, "oh lol claimed PR lets go elsewhere!" all you'll succeed in doing is outing a bunch of PR's or allow fake-claiming scumz to be temporarily "exempt" from a lynch.

This isn't actually a problem. If scum are forced into PR claims this early, they won't be living until endgame unless the town is filled with a bunch of idiots. And now that AM is guaranteed to survive the night...

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Maxous

I have additional role information saying that Maxous's role is false, but it isn't very significant.

[Nachomamma8]

anything that would be pro-town to share?

not really, no

[Nachomamma8]

Proposition 1: Can we lynch toasty and have CF try to kill maxous? This way, just in case we are wrong, there is a doc protection for AM. Anything see anything wrong with that? (And carbon should obviously not protect maxous).

That's carbon's job, isn't it?

[Nachomamma8]

It's too easily confirmable, but if we can confirm it, then he's still confirmed town.

[Nachomamma8]

Why not have both claimed docs available to protect at night? I see this as a superior percentage play. Agreed?

Um, no. The interrogator is dead, meaning that there is no roleblockers to fuck with the protective role. There is a person claiming a role that is highly likely not to be in the game. We are giving him another night... why?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: ToastyToast

Maxous is a wonderful shot if Toasty flips scum because there's literally no reason to leave him alive. I think it's fucking stupid we're leaving him alive because he's scum, but people getting ridiculously cold feet because oooh, he claimed protective role >.>

[Nachomamma8]

An Interrogator rolecops and jailkeeps their target.

A Clan Avenger roleblocks Troupe members and makes all protections on them fail. A Clan Avenger dies without blocking if they target a Hunter Association aligned player.

A Skill Hunter steals skills from other players, and can use them as long as that player is alive. He may also begin the game with stolen abilities.

A Skilled action does not count towards the "One active or factional ability per Night" rule.

A dominatrix targets a player and learns their alignment. She also gains a one-day QT with the target and can control the targets vote that day.

just going to quote hito's explanation of all of the power role flips throughout the game
wait what did i just say?
hito's... explanation... of all power role flips throughout the game.

We KNOW AM is a weird fucking power role.
Carbon's claimed one-shot 11x doctor.
CF is a joint vig thing.

and maxous claimed BODYGUARD
FUCKING. BODYGUARD.

[Nachomamma8]

oh yeah and monkey gives out a shiny artifact and we have no idea what the fuck it does
has anyone else received an artifact? I don't think so!

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho: Was that you're whole reason for why Maxous' role probably doesn't exist? Because if it is it's pretty weak.

The rest of my reasoning isn't smart to talk about, sooo.

Vote: ToastyToast

matt if you could just yell at them and make them lynch faster it would be great

[Nachomamma8]

i just don't have it in me man

[Nachomamma8]

I don't like the toasty wagon. I think it is more likely he is town. I feel that he is actually scumhunting and trying to figure out who scum are. Maxous's long justification for voting Toasty doesn't seem right either. I'd lynch Maxous as a first choice but if we are going to give him a pass because it is more optimal to let him live the night, I am not really sure, who to vote for.

~ F-16

Toasty's been due for death for a while now. Other, better targets might come up after the night is over and we massclaim tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Coincidentally, I can't really see why there was a big deal made over this post - squared said hydrae were like masons, not that they actually were masons. Although I can see why the reaction over the subsequent reply to [hp] leaves was criticised, that isn't the impression I personally took from the post. I may be in a minority on this.

I liked his defense of the 2 hydra. There really wasn't a reason for him to take a position on them when he already had a reason for not liking them.

Nibelung's content seems okay to me so far especially compared against thenewearth or Gammagooey's fluff posts.

This is a strange interactions with two partners, don't you think?

I have slight pause over Syryana and Oversoul's fairly lengthy town lists. Perhaps it's because I only have tentative reads at best at this point.

This seems like a typical newtown thing to say.

What holds me back

[from voting Gammagooey]

is that there is pretty much no resistance to the lynch. Some people are softly commenting on why they're going elsewhere, but there's no real direct opposition. I'm not sure what to make of that.

All these people voting Metal Sonic and thenewearth without any reason NOT to vote Gammagooey aren't "resistance"? Come

on

now.

You seem to discredit the fact that there is a good case against them entirely as well as Gamma - as though any person who receives multiple votes is automatically a counterwagon made on bogus reasons. There are five scum. Are you implying that MS and TNE are both town?

You seem

certain

that Gammagooey is scum. You have lots of meta-experience with him. I am not and do not.

I liked this response. Normally when someone pegs a scumpartner, you don't try to bus a scumpartner while getting on said player's bad side.

Every mafia member who has died so far has called/alluded to Toasty town but not for any discernably good reason.
e.g. Gamma in #362, TNE in #572, hp in #1089. I feel at least a couple of these (hp's for sure, given Toast's lynch was looking very likely at the time) were for town-cred.

In Magua's #1126 he brought attention to this poor wagon on Metal Sonic - (4) Metal Sonic: AngstyMatters, ToastyToast, thenewearth, hp [leaves]

We know the latter two of these are members of the mafia. For Toasty to be scum too would mean three mafia members would be on a four-person wagon. Which is unlikely. The fact Magua even brought attention to that wagon makes me not want to vote him at the moment as well.

What Toasty says is a bit dodgy, but so is what MS says and MS is almost certainly town at this point - that four man wagon alone says enough.

I liked this defense of Toasty.

[Nachomamma8]

Hmmm... so nothing that points as CRAZY TOWN, but nothing that's alarmingly scummy either. So he'll die by PoE if things come to that but I would rather Maxous just get shot and we be done with it.

[Nachomamma8]

MAGUA
Talk to me. Why did you put yourself in the unprotected pool?

[Nachomamma8]

This is bad and you should feel bad.

Oh, no, do, please, go on and enlighten me about exactly why it's bad.

Because I'm guessing your mind doesn't work like "wheee I shouldn't be protected because Magua!".

[Nachomamma8]

shhh baby lemme work
who do you want to lynch?

[Nachomamma8]

please insert quarter and try again

[Nachomamma8]

But I'm still not convinced the best route is lynching someone else and giving Maxous another day. If CarbonFiber protects AM during the night, we WILL get an investigative report from him and he WILL NOT die, considering scum's roleblocker died D1. Giving CF free reign to shoot who he wants is way better than just having him shoot Maxous, and because we already have a claimed protective role, we seriously, seriously don't need 2 on AM. That's stupid.

And alternative perspective on this is that every role has a high correspondence to flavor. In that sense, Maxous' claim fits in because the lead bodyguard only bodyguards during the whole arc. So in that sense, while it is not as different as some of the others, it makes sense.

Owl as a jailkeep made sense with flavor too. But the flavor connection was boring; all of the other flavor connections hito have made have been interesting, and it would make a possible town tracker/town blocker a lot more effective if there was ONE scum left as opposed to two.

So I still think Maxous lynch is most definitely the way to go and I'm sad we moved away from it.

Vote: Maxous

[Nachomamma8]

And, if you think they did... Don't you think they would be roleblocking AM?

[Nachomamma8]

IF scum want to kill AM THEN they have to do something about Maxous.

Carbonfiber is protecting him during the night. AM will live until tomorrow.
If there's TWO scum left during the night, tracking is a lot more useless than if there was ONE scum during the night. It also means all town roleblocking roles will be able to get innocents, followers following people who aren't killers turn into innocents, voyeurs watching people who are targetted without being killed equals confirmed town, if Monkey's little artifact is a watching power like I think it is, people with targettable abilities can target RS and LOOK, more confirmed town.

And yet people keep saying it's a higher percentage play to leave Maxous alive because AM won't die until he's dead. If he's scum, do you know what will happen? Carbon will have to protect AM anyways. And then, after that one shot is ran out, and AM will get shot. We'll lynch Maxous the next day, but from those two days he's been alive, we'll get less information simply because of his existence.

[Nachomamma8]

I am starting to wonder why would Maxous claim bodyguard if he was scum? This almost ensures that he doesn't make it to endgame leaving all his hope in his remaining buddy. This also forces him to protect an investigative role increasing the information to town. Looks like a bad scum strategy.

~ F-16

they are trying to out a protective role so they can kill AM.
this strategy worked, in case you didn't notice.

[Nachomamma8]

scum!maxous has no motivation to defend town!kamliar(assuming kalimar is town cause his play is transparently town) from a vigshot, letting it happen is far more beneficial

he's transparently town, it's not like the town is just gonna let CF shoot him anyways

[Nachomamma8]

I must of missed the backlash uproar.
Nearly everyone else seemed content to sit back and just let it happen.

You think that the fact you defended Kalimar makes you town? Hell no.

He is trying to get people to just lynch me if they think I'm scummy instead of allowing me to protect AM to see if the scum would be willing to give up a mislynch in order to shoot AM.

They wouldn't be able to be able to kill AM anyways since CarbonFiber is already protecting him...

Can someone tell me why the CF Riot wagon disintegrated?

Can you vote Maxous?

[Nachomamma8]

If you start from the assumption that I know how to play [1], this is a bad question: either I'm scum and posing, or I'm town and have a reason.

Meaning that you have a reason to give either way and I'd love to hear it. Some make you very likely town, which I would appreciate very much, others are useless.

I was hoping for a bit more of a direct response here, Nacho. Instead you are trying to drum up maxous votes and have ignored this argument and other arguments presented in the thread.

Yes, I'm trying to drum up Maxous votes because I want a Maxous lynch. I think this plan is horrendously, horrendously useless after further reflection. Maybe I'll be proven wrong later.

I find you ignoring the arguments in the thread while still trying to drum up Maxous votes scummy as hell, Nacho.

I responded. Not directly, but I responded. It's stupid that we're neglecting getting a good lynch today in order to let Maxous live for absolutely no reason. If you're wondering about my specific information, you're wondering about something that I'm going to keep under wraps. You'll know it tomorrow.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: ToastyToast

This is probably happening regardless of what we do today. I don't understand your "I don't see how him being scum makes you not scum" point, but I might in the morning.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't like Carbonfiber wanting to policy lynch toasty because him being around in lylo isn't something we want despite us being no where near that phase, and despite the fact that we only probably have 1-2 scum left...

Nacho? thoughts on the above?

you think that scum counterclaimed their partner and banked on there being no protective roles, then no-killed?

[Nachomamma8]

But there is a Troupe member, Kortopi, who has the ability to copy objects and can gain information from the copies. It would make some sense from a flavor perspective for Kortopi to track or watch whoever got the artifact for example.

but from a setup perspective, it's pretty shitty for scum to not be able to use their ability in secret
it also doesn't really make sense with the self-watcher
and the way Monkey went about things seemed decently town

[Nachomamma8]

What's the purpose of a question like that when Kalimar is confirmed town?

[Nachomamma8]

What's the purpose of a question like that when Kalimar is confirmed town?