Dr Who: The Last Great Time War GAME OVER!!

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry all, the holiday weekend has kicked my butt and I just don't have any energy right now to get started on this. As long as the baby doesn't decide to come tomorrow, I'll promise to read and vote before I go to sleep Sunday.

[I Am Innocent]

just got back from the hospital. Little IAI was born a little over 3 hrs ago. Wife is obv still there, my other kids are at a friend's house sleeping over, and since I'm wiped, I'm waiting until the morning to get into this. Should have an hr or so to do it before the kids are back here in the morning...

[I Am Innocent]

First 5 pages

@wayne, re: 70, as someone who has been scum in two of Jason's large theme games, you are aware that Jason gives scum fake claims right? If you weren't, do you still feel the same way about post 70?

@magical, re: 75, you mention your drunk and twice in there you twice mention how you will check back/reconsider tomorrow. Then 14 mins later, you post again defending yourself. Can you explain? Certainly feels like lurking scum to me.
And speaking of the followup post (81), wouldn't you have had to shown up eventually?

@Zdenek, re: 122, why is swift justice scum? I can only see one reason as of this pt, and that reason would actually lead to a vote of another player first

[I Am Innocent]

@like shii's 197 post...alot. That is some nice scumhunting there. Ice's response in 198 is not leaving me feeling very warm inside...(see what I did there...)

@rift, re: 259, you like the ice votes, yet you still are voting ac1983? Please explain.

You should've waited for us to be on the verge of lynching someone, then shot that person to give us a free lynch.

Quoted because this is a pro-town thing to say, and something I would be sure to say if I were scum trying to look town.

vote iecerint

Off to take the kids to the hospital. Will finish up later, likely after they go down for bed.

[I Am Innocent]

I know its not logical, but it is hard to explain... Basically there is a group of peeps I start off with in the Town pile and if they still are around later in the game, then I look at them more carefully, because they are extremely good players and very helpful to town. CES is one of those players.

There is a difference between saying you won't lynch them early in the game (MOI is a player I hold to this standard) and throwing them into the town pile.

Double to isn't a typo, but it isn't why I'm voting you either. I'm aware of your disabilities, but my disabled friends don't want to be treated any differently from anyone else. If that's not the case with you, let me know.

Wasn't sure if Rach was being serious or not, but if so, and you knew that, not cool dude. Please stop that.

Right back from celebrating the tennis win to discover we have a daylight going on (possible) and Swift Justice & Rubicon playing silly buggers. When did this game get so out of hand already? In my brief scanning with my screwdriver my readings are telling me that my main suspicions of scum currently are Swift Justice & Waynegg. I will detail my reasoning presently, but what reasons has Baby Spice caused a DayVig on herself?

Your next post (28 hrs later) does not give your details on SJ and Wayne, which to me, are both town. Why not?

...And Nacho enters in the next post. Over/Under on how many posts before he calls me scum? I'll set it at 5 Nacho posts...

Leaving vote on nacho, he knows too much!

This post, less than an hr after Nacho makes an appearance, wreaks of lurking scum.

VOTE: dramonic

easy

Can people who have played with mutley comment on if this play is normal for him?

********************

Re Ac1983's 393, a look at my spreadsheet shows that I have 0 notes and a blank read on Rift Adrift, so I may join if this wagon if they continue to provide nothing of interest.

********************

If Gut is scum, well then he is scum. I'm guessing not. If not however, he is now the easy target with BS flipping town. Wayne throws the first vote, but it is TF's "Did that work out as you thought it would? Since you were the one pushing for a vig of BabySpice." comment (without a vote) that is hitting my scumdar (post 401). I like to call that fanning the flames.

@ Rift

Not because of Wayne, but it is making me nervous that I am doing all the talking without input from NS. Because it is feeling less like a hydra and more like just me if that makes sense?

How frequently do you expect to do hydra synch-ups?

Please explain how this ties to scumhunting?

[I Am Innocent]

Quoted because this is a pro-town thing to say, and something I would be sure to say if I were scum trying to look town.

vote iecerint

This is so horrible. How does one make the distiniction between people who say pro town things because they're town and people who say them because they're scum? If it's so pro town would town also not say it? Is your opinion more nuanced than this and this is a simplification or is this your actual thought process?

My thought process is iece was looking for town cred by declaring a pro-town strategy

after it was too late to use said pro-town strategy

. (Stay hidden, and right before the lynch, use the day vig, then lather/rinse/repeat.)

^^
Rach

BTW fery how come you and Syr are not signing your posts?

We've decided not to sign posts. Our writing styles are different enough that it should be pretty clear who's who.

It isn't. Please sign ur posts.

Sorry about yesterday, was not feeling so well. Thanks for trying to cheer me up, Swift. You're not as mean as you seem (or one of you isn't, still not sure who's in that hydra).

I'm gonna read through the entire game and some ISOs again to get a better grip on the game. That will take some time, so I'll try to post interim reports on my findings.

You've made 3 posts since this one, at two different times of the day. All are responding to posts AFTER this one. So where are the interim reports on your findings then?

********

Okay, noticed chk, zdenek, and candil all pointing at Magical too. Let's do this.

unvote iecerint
vote Magical7

[I Am Innocent]

Re: Nachos 481 "take your time, a baby is a fine reason for you to coast as scum <3" knew it!

@SJ Yep.

I'm sorry if my posting bothers you BUT it feels comfy for me to post this way so.

Hm? I don't know what that means, I just misunderstood what you meant by trying to accidentally town tell, I guess.

Do you want to vote Gut?

I thought your implication was that that was not the kind of "admittance" that you wanted to hear. Like, I read your "Uh, this?" as being said with incredulity.

OK.

Unvote; Vote: Gut

Trying to figure out how that ties with this (see the underlined):

I CAN'T TAKE THIS ANYMORE

*raise left eyebrow*
*shrug*

I dunno, I think there are games where I feel that way but this isn't really one of them.

I can be strongarmed into voting someone who isn't Shiidaji if you want to manhandle me into it

. But like I don't really know what your frustrations are arising from so it is hard for me to help you through them.

Seems like you are just hopping on the only other multi-vote wagon at this pt.

Unfortunately, she's not actually seeing anything.

So, what are your thoughts on Gut?

Please list your top 3 town and top 3 scum reads in your next post please. Need stances from you.

[I Am Innocent]

Will make a catchup post tomorrow night at the latest.

[I Am Innocent]

@I Am Innocent

Same from you, please - top three town and top three scum.

As of this post, Shii, ac, and Zdenek are probably my top 3 town reads. For scum, I'd say Magical is my biggest scum read, followed by iece, then probably snake and muttley in some order.

forgot my vote blew up

vote: rubicon

Why so convinced about Rubicon? And why are you not pushing a case to try to get others to join you on this wagon of one? Feels very fake.

I also keep track of what's being said, although mostly at things directed at me as I expect those asking a question would like a response. I can't say I haven't found much interesting from the reread yet, I'd have to check my documents (I'm on a train atm).

So in a game of 27 players, you keep track of "mostly at things directed at me"? Can we lynch this with fire please?

**************

Not a fan of waynegg's back and forth with zdenek. Can you show me where zdenek waffled/showed less conviction on Magical7?

I question your questionable vote because you have shown less conviction on M7; that's a starting point

**************

Doctor Who's vote of zdenek and defense of waynegg in 647 is just bad. Town pts for Rift for calling it out in 648.

I haven't ignored what is going on, I'm only adding commentary when I have something pertinent to add.

Top 3 town and scum reads please.

**************

Just an FYI Chkflip's post restriction is fake, in case anyone is assuming otherwise.

Does fake = scummy to you?

I don't really like the Magical7 wagon - I thought some of the emoness and responses to me looked more likely to come from town.

Yeah I noticed some connections between you two.

First in 76: "Magical7 vote for someone who has made a post and stop being a coward."

Then in 302 "Wow. Are you sad or something? Don't be, just try harder I think this post is kinda townish btw so I guess be happy regardless of your alignment!"

Now the quote above. If he flips scum, your next on my list.

***********

Requesting replace out.

Should have done this earlier, sorry for wasting your time.

Thanks for confirming your scum. Adios.

Yeah, IDGI. Replacing out like that isn't a scumtell, guys. Maybe if he'd privately pm'd the mod and replaced out I'd look at it differently but ????

And defending him again, are you? I replaced out of one game. I was scum. I was behind, it was a large game, and I was starting to get pressure due to my lackluster play from being behind. It wasn't fair to my team. But I don't believe a VT would care that much day 1 and a power role could just claim to save himself. Yeah, likely scum.

Yeah that sounds more like he's beating himself up over the evaluation of other payers concerning his game play. You're reading what you want to read as opposed to what's actually there to read.

Pot, meet Kettle...

@Equinox Lurking would be reading and not posting. I've barely read this thread as too many damn walls.

We need to get rid of darth vader

Top 3 town and scum reads please?

(I've totally made some sweet points on Iece too.)

Who else is scum? It has been Iece, and all defense from you.

Thing is, I am bad at mafia and I know it. And this game is requiring too much effort, mostly because of poor time management and some personal issues. Don't worry, you lot didn't scare me away with game-related attacks

Second time you have made a comment, lurked to see how people respond. Or were you just brushing your teeth again?

*********

Will continue catchup tonight after kids go down.

[I Am Innocent]

Meanwhile I will ISO everyone and do my best...

7/10 (up to 7/13, post 1000, still nothing on this)

Also Rift Adrift are probably just scum for real at this stage, they've had enough chances to improve their content level.

I think you can safely leave sorting us to Nacho. Or Vi. Unless they are both scum. I kinda doubt Vi is, somehow. I'll need to see more of Nacho before developing any warm fuzzies.

Syr tells me that equinox has seen his scum game. I can see why his not yet making an appearance could be unsettling. He'll be around.

Not a fan of this post.

I've read the three posts above this one, and looked at the last vote count.

Vote: Magical

This makes for a better race while I read.

Anyone have cases for Gut and Magical?

PV, I know you lurk hard early in games, but I don't recall you ever placing a vote to tighten a race pre-read? What's up with that?

But bad in a naive newbie way.

Zdenek's posting seems heavy on offense; a quick skim of Adventure Time and ADwD suggests he definitely did more of simply talking about things in his town games. Combine that with some of his votes and that definitely seems like a decent vote.

Then why are you not voting that way?

I will work on this either tonight or tomorrow.

7/12 (up to 7/13, post 1000, still nothing on this)

It's a big part of why I unvoted Gut when I did.

I wanted to see if you are willing to work with people on the gut wagon, because that will probably help me figure out both you and some of them.

Why are you waiting for others before you make your move?

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks to those who unknowingly participated. Two of these are likely scum, in order of my suspicions:

Candillan 20, 36
ac1983fan 39, 46, 52, 56
Rubicon 10, 14

The numbers are the posts where they exhibited what I was looking for.

@wayne, re: 70, as someone who has been scum in two of Jason's large theme games, you are aware that Jason gives scum fake claims right? If you weren't, do you still feel the same way about post 70?

Nooooooo...those last 332 posts since then have had no change in my perspective on anything. Especially the 90% conftown 1983 /sarcasm

Originally I was feeling Candyland, Rubicon, and ac1983fan. I said I think there are two scum in that list, and I still do.

You still do, yet early your sarcasm in 403 hinted that your reads changed as ac1983 was 90% conftown. Didn't you call zdenek scummy for being a flopper earlier? Would you consider this flopping?

Waynegg, meta links please. If you could direct me to evidence for this habit, it would be helpful.

The jump to Gut-town just looks like an attempt to get out of an argument that Waynegg's worried will end up getting him lynched.

This right here.

Also, who are your town reads right now Nacho?

too early
the ones that matter are SJ, Rift, you, and Deas.

You are reading Deas as town?

UNVOTE: pending more discussion with Syr.

Why do you continue to rely on others for your vote? (And I'm not talking about your hydra partner...)

@Nacho, what about Rift makes you feel they are town?

I'm also extremely depressed there aren't more votes on chkflip yet.

heh

vote: chkflip

Did you discuss with your partner in this 2 min window between posts before making this vote?

We've stopped signing our posts in all our ongoing games for the most part. Our writing styles are different enough that it's pretty obvious who is who.

Not true btw.

I have you and Syr down as town based on your posts they feel like town fery to me.... Syr is still a bit of a wild card since he has not posted much though...

Can you provide a few specific post numbers

*****************

Through page 50.

[I Am Innocent]

3rd Party (In a game of this size more than likely we have one/some in here):

Really? It's one thing to say that 'I think this game has a 3rd party player in it', but to have every player listed in town/null/scum/3rd party seems far fetched at this point.

I don't think so. 3rd parties operate in a distinctly different way than a scum team. Scum work together which changes the way they post (Distancing etc.) However 3rd Party will in general lean town because they also want rid of scum as with everyone, but their separate agenda works best for them if Scum are wiped out and they are left generally in a town sense to get on and complete their objective, so they don't come across scummy at all.

"they don't come across scummy at all". You know 2 of your 3 SK possibilities had fairly sizeable wagons D1, right? (Gut/Chkflip) Care to reconsider?

Back to the game I wholeheartedly endorse the vote on Pere.... this is not his normal MO when town... and yep I can provide links...

...but you won't???

Now the quote above. If he flips scum, your next on my list.

lmfao

uh...

Do you think he's likely scum or ???? (I'm not really reading your quote strips unless my name is mentioned) (this is a lie, that'd be anti town but I like to keep up my whimsical image in games) (admittedly my eyes glaze over)

Yes I think he is likely scum.

@IAI: ....I've put at least as much effort as anyone into investigating alternatives. Honestly I feel like I'm the one who's put the most energy into this game out of everyone, but people tend to be biased towards thinking that because they see everything that they do, and only the surface of what others do. Certainly more than you who has like 2 posts I can even remember. I've made probing statements backed with meta towards like 5 people? What have you done?

Wow that was hostile... If I had provided so little, why hadn't you attacked that before I came after you?

Please provide links or post numbers to the "probing statements backed with meta towards like 5 people." Of if that is too much work, how about a list of the 5 players, and I'll look for it myself?

Then why are you not voting that way?

Why are you encouraging them?

Lol, not what I was doing at all. I have noticed that a few times now, where someone puts a feeler out to see if someone else jumps on it, yet won't commit themselves. I believe that subtle action is something that scum would do, and while I disagreed with the early cases on Gut, his play of recent has been down right bad.

I have 2 groups personally. Unsorted and Scum. My questions didn't lead to you being scum. That doesn't mean you aren't, just that you aren't for the reasons I had in mind when I was asking those questions.

Please provide these groups.

***********

@Shii, you say in back to back sentences "Snake and IAI are uninspiring" & "M7 wagon is good." As one of the biggest proponents of this wagon, how do these statements jive?

I replaced out of one game. I was scum. I was behind, it was a large game, and I was starting to get pressure due to my lackluster play from being behind. It wasn't fair to my team. But I don't believe a VT would care that much day 1 and a power role could just claim to save himself. Yeah, likely scum.

Well this one time I was in a game and someone called me scum and they were scum. So **** you, you're scum too. Gotcha, owned.

Not what I was saying at all. But I think you knew that already didn't you. Everybody was saying him replacing out is a townie move. I refuted that with an example. It is a null tell at best. Which takes us back to his play before (and after) his replace out request. Almost everything about it was down right scummy/forced. He lurked twice, once after his first post and once after his replace out post. He obviously cared how his slot was viewed, not how he was viewed in my opinion.

I can show you a number of links of me as town taking a while to figure out peeps.

Why so nervous?

You still do, yet early your sarcasm in 403 hinted that your reads changed as ac1983 was 90% conftown. Didn't you call zdenek scummy for being a flopper earlier? Would you consider this flopping?

And then 405 happened and blew you up. Y u misconstrue?

Reads changing as a natural process as info comes in based on what YOU see isn't the same thing as flopping because someone else tells you to.

No, try again.

You early: two of these three are scum
Me: still feel those reads are valid
You: no, ac1983 is 90% town now based off the vig
You later: still think two of these three are scum

So is ac1983 90% town or not. Cause if he is, the "You later" comment is very strange to keep him in it, no?

Unvote.

prod dodge, cause your vote is already parked on 'unvote'?

Through page 50.

When you're done catching up, we'd like to hear your thoughts on the doing and undoing of the Magical7 wagon. There's something specific I'm looking for, but let's see if you get to it without being prompted.

What, that everyone seemed to jump off for a terrible reason (his replace out)...and totally ignored his play before and after the replace out?

[I Am Innocent]

Apologies to mod and all for my disgusting level of activity. Looks like 4 days to the lynch, so I'll give all my time after the kids go down tomorrow night to this game.

[I Am Innocent]

Are you always like this?

Like what?

Everybody was saying him replacing out is a townie move.

WRONG. he specifically gained votes for the replace out. (p.s. the wagon was like 5 people at most, so uh yeah, it was ****ty and chkflip was one person on it and he doesn't count as he'll vote for everyone)

What, one vote? Rubicon? Cause he was the only person who voted Magical after the replace out post but before all the defense came in regarding him. (AS1983 in 730, then you in 731, then Rift Adrift in 734, waynegg in 738).

*Now after the defense, Chkflp revotes Magical after a small lull to vote Orestes, and PeregrineV does the weird 'I'll even the wagons though I haven't read' vote, but only one person voted him for specifically replacing out. So that makes you WRONG to implay he specifically gained vote

s

for that. His replace out was from the wagon itself. So why are you falsely trying to discredit this case so bad? It is like the fourth or fifth time you have protected this slot now.

I didn't actually say that I think they're both town. I said their

argument

looks like TvT. Subtle, yet significant, difference.

~~NS

Ok then, which one do you think is faking?

He claimed that you are his mason buddy, and got counter-claimed.

This, by the way, is not appreciated. People are trying to catch up on 60+ pages and you're making a cheap joke. Someone could very easily take this to be true assuming someone wouldn't so blatantly lie. It yields no alignment information, as someone being trusting isn't alignment-indicative. It's just being a dick.

It does not indicate town or scum, though. I just wanted to rant because it annoyed me.

This is very funny coming from the king of the gambits himself. How many did you make that last game that we played together? davcop, gunsmith, I'm sure there was more.

My quote is 2 years old. He may have changed his play style since then. It may signal something else. I'd have to look into some of his more recent games.

What made you want to look for this 2 yr old quote?

Then why even post it? Now it just comes off as covering for him.

This right here.

There are a number of reasons. 1) Snake is under discussion. 2) Rob asked about Snake's town play. 3) It shows why I am not as keen on a Snake wagon than an Iecerint wagon.

What shows you're not keen on a Snake wagon? The quote? I'm assuming the quote came as a result of #1 and #2 right? If so, why have you not done this for every player where they are under discussion and someone asks about their town/scum play? The fact this comes up right after a SP wagon is gaining steam is very suspicious.

unvote Rob13
vote SnakePlissken

[I Am Innocent]

How dare I ask for a case on someone who is a major wagon! It's like I committed the MafiaScum equivalent of genocide!

How did you know it was a major wagon? Jason has done 0 vote counts D2.

So you paid enough attention to notice lots of Nacho votes during your skim, but didn't take time to skim back right before the votes to see why? I'm calling bull on that one.

vote Rob13

[I Am Innocent]

I like your Bayesian approach to this game Iec

I think humans ignore prior probabilities in their decision-making unless they really make an effort to consider them.

I think humans ignore probabilities from crosskills in their decision-making unless they really make an effort to consider them as well.

[I Am Innocent]

Rift Adrift, if you could link me to somewhere where you've been accused of knowing it's multiball that would be wonderful.

I think Twin Flames is town based on Rach's recent posts. It's a weird half-gut thing (just from those posts, I think I sort of townread them before and probably had a decent reason for it), which I don't usually do, so sheep with caution!

Vote: Rob13

But IaI is so tempting!

Go on...

[I Am Innocent]

How dare I ask for a case on someone who is a major wagon! It's like I committed the MafiaScum equivalent of genocide!

How did you know it was a major wagon? Jason has done 0 vote counts D2.

So you paid enough attention to notice lots of Nacho votes during your skim, but didn't take time to skim back right before the votes to see why? I'm calling bull on that one.

vote Rob13

But seriously this post is scummy. First, he's talking to Rob when if he's actually been reading Rob's posts he'd know that he replaced out, so I'd just feel really silly doing it. Maybe he wouldn't though as scum trying to sound genuine in having a reason to jump onto the wagon (which is what I think he's doing).

Rob is still reading just like Magical7 continued to read after he replaced out. Read my Iso and tell me if you still think I need "a reason to jump onto the wagon", I was only the BIGGEST FRIGGIN PROPONENT of M7/Rob's slot D1.

[I Am Innocent]

Encouraging him to engage after he's obviously had enough of the game is just mean then.

Well that's the weird thing. In your post it's like you've realised something scummy about Rob and

now

you can vote for him.

Nope, just more fuel for the fire.

This in combination with actually addressing him (which I still think is strange) made me think it was scummy.

Enough to elevate me to your #2 target on who you want lynched today. Without obviously reading my iso (and seeing my hard push on this slot) or ever even mentioning me on D1? Come on, I find that hard to believe and very lazy "scumhunting." How about you start by explaining why none of your scum reads from D1 are no longer lynch worthy today?

[I Am Innocent]

Also, from what I remember, you were null/scummy day 1, so if I seem something from you, I'm pretty comfortable having you as a scumread.

Control F "IAI" and "Innocent" on your ISO = 0 results thru your post finding me "so tempting". So why did you never have a word to say to me or about me D1, despite finding me null/scummy as you remember? Or is that being pulled out of thin air, your day 1 suspicion of me?

I'm going to assume you ISO'd me before making my post, but if you did, I think the only player that would have made significantly more sense than you as my #2 would have been Snake, and it's not like he has posted much, so frankly I don't understand what you're problem is.

My problem is your lazy and now inconsistent play. You tried to throw out a few comments like your scumhunting:

"Rift Adrift, if you could link me to somewhere where you've been accused of knowing it's multiball that would be wonderful" What is the point of this?

"I think Twin Flames is town based on Rach's recent posts." Look, I'm giving a town read, I must be town.

"Vote: Rob13" Hop onto the biggest wagon.

"But IaI is so tempting!" Look, I'm doing more than just hopping on the biggest wagon.

But it gets worse. You show you are really doing no analysis of the player you feel tempted to vote for, saying I need a reason to vote for Rob. No, no, no. That is lazy scumhunting, esp for someone who listed so many scum players D1 (which did not include me).

Then you have the audacity to pretend like I was a scumread D1, yet you never mentioned me in any post. Not once.

[I Am Innocent]

Rob is still reading just like Magical7 continued to read after he replaced out. Read my Iso and tell me if you still think I need "a reason to jump onto the wagon", I was only the BIGGEST FRIGGIN PROPONENT of M7/Rob's slot D1.

What do you think of Rob's replace out?

As someone who stepped away from the game for a bit myself because of Faraday being a prick, I understand the frustration. But him quitting was null at best. The Rob that joined this game is not the same one who made me cringe in the game I was the Mafia Traitor, this guy didn't care. And at the risk of inviting Faraday to be a prick again, Rob's departure felt like mine when I replaced out as mafia. Fallen behind, heart not in it, etc.

[I Am Innocent]

3rd Party (In a game of this size more than likely we have one/some in here):

Really? It's one thing to say that 'I think this game has a 3rd party player in it', but to have every player listed in town/null/scum/3rd party seems far fetched at this point.

I don't think so. 3rd parties operate in a distinctly different way than a scum team. Scum work together which changes the way they post (Distancing etc.) However 3rd Party will in general lean town because they also want rid of scum as with everyone, but their separate agenda works best for them if Scum are wiped out and they are left generally in a town sense to get on and complete their objective, so they don't come across scummy at all.

"they don't come across scummy at all". You know 2 of your 3 SK possibilities had fairly sizeable wagons D1, right? (Gut/Chkflip) Care to reconsider?

Snake, you never addressed this D1. I still want to hear your response to this. Esp since the 3rd player (the one without the fairly sizeable wagon), has flipped scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Hello folks..
No idea how the mac slot went on... Anywayz, I am here now. and 98 pages just for one day? huh... there is no way i can read and remember all that drama. so if there were any claims or interesting things that i have to notice on D1, please point me to it becuz i am not planning on reading it but will ISO individual player as situation demands!!

Why do you think that I'm scum then?

who do you think is town?

I don't get why you are asking for town reads over scum reads here.

You mention in your first post that you want to "ISO individual player as situation demands". How does getting town reads help you know who to ISO?

I actually agree with Deas about IaI's vote here. I don't know if I have a different perception of posts but when I see votes tacked onto the end of a post I think "everything up to this point (the vote in the post) is contributing to why I am voting this person".

I could see IaI not needing a reason to join the wagon,

but why not have the vote be earlier in the post

? If his true instincts were still thinking that Rob was scum, why would that not translate into a vote as soon as possible? Granted this is IaI's first possible chance to vote Rob today, but it the placement could have subtle psychological tools. Additionally, I could very easily see IaI scum being lazy and continuing to pressure Rob because he feels he looks legitimate doing so. I don't really remember IaI's posts being proactive so far in this game.

Your suspicion of me is based on where I placed a vote inside a post, lol??? I always put my vote at the end of the post! A quick iso of me would have showed that is the case in every vote I have casted this game, but one. (That one I have a one line, non game relevant sentence after my vote.)

Good news is scum would be crazy to reach this far for suspicion, so you're probably town.

IaI, I really don't think it should matter whether I mentioned you or not. I posted a couple of town lists, so my lack of mention of you means you were null at the very least. I think I was considering you as scum toward the end of the day, but there were better targets. It doesn't matter whether I did or I didn't though. It's obvious that I didn't read you as town and if my feelings for you were not strong, then I shouldn't be expected to talk about you.

I don't think your points against me are good.

I'm sorry, but I wasn't considering lynching you today, so rereading your posts shouldn't have been necessary. I also really didn't list that many scum players Day 1. As I said, only Snake would make more sense as a #2 read than you and I don't think it's that unlikely my reads would change enough for him not to be. You've also (quite conveniently) just proven that you would have felt the need as scum to have reason for jumping on the Rob wagon. You've used my hop onto the wagon against me, when I obviously thought Rob was scum Day 1 as well.

I'm not pretending that you were a scumread. I said I either considered you null or scummy. As soon as I think someone's scummy I'm not going to necessarily shout out to everyone, "HEY!!!! I want to lynch Snake/Mozamis, but I think IaI is a little bit scummy, just like a couple of other people. I thought you might want to know!!!!!'

By the way, are you OMGUSing me or are you just saying I'm bad? I can't really tell.

Oh sorry Rift, could you just link to a place where you've seen it happen?

Chkflip I'm really glad you're posting normally now.

On TD:

-I like the self-meta about how he wouldn't claim VT as scum, if it's actually true. I doubt he'd make it up though, and I'm feeling lazy (Hi IaI), so I'll probably check later.

-I don't like him not being curious enough to find where Rob claimed miller. If scum, you would ISO your predecessor for sure to see what they claimed if anything (and want to pretend they didn't to look town from the reaction test), but I think in this instance town ISO their predecessor as well, and so would know that there was no miller claim.

So I'm conflicted, but now it seems he would claim VT if that was the safeclaim, so neeever mind, he can continue being scum.

I like the ac guy! But then again, I already did.

This post is bad.

"I posted a couple of town lists, so my lack of mention of you means you were null at the very least." They were not exclusively town lists. 267 had 4 players listed under the "Now onto scummy things" (iece, magical7, rift, and muttley). 1092 was the next post you talk about reads/read changes, and you have listed Doctor Who and Snake becoming scum reads. 1099 is a full list of reads again, including "but I feel like my scumreads are shaping up to be". I was never mentioned in any of those posts, nor later.

Side note, I also find it interesting you never mentioned your read on vi (was on neither of your lists), and despite developing a late scum read on Doctor Who, you didn't vote him until 1434 (you had your vote on chkflp, who you never really seem to think is scummy, you call him annoying).

Here is your Doctor Who vote by the way:

"Unvote: chkflip
Vote: Doctor Who

I guess."


"but I wasn't considering lynching you today", but yet you were tempted to start a wagon on me, no?

"I'm not pretending that you were a scumread. I said I either considered you null or scummy. As soon as I think someone's scummy I'm not going to necessarily shout out to everyone, "HEY!!!! I want to lynch Snake/Mozamis, but I think IaI is a little bit scummy, just like a couple of other people. I thought you might want to know!!!!!'" So the six people you mentioned as scummy (which does not include chkflp, who held your vote for ~400 posts) must have been downright scummy then, right? So what happened to them (outside of mozamis, who is now dead)?

Oh, I also like how you are trying to gain townpoints by pointing out how you wanted to "lynch Snake/Mozamis" D1 there, like you were the strong advocate. Already busted that bubble earlier as you were a reluctant vote changer late on that wagon, try again.

"By the way, are you OMGUSing me or are you just saying I'm bad? I can't really tell." You attacked me for no reason initially, and your replies to my questions have been bad yes.

"I like the ac guy! But then again, I already did" Your buddying to the likely day vig is noted.

[I Am Innocent]

You're putting a lot of effort into explaining how bad I am if you're not actually calling me scum.

Okay then, I think you may be scum. Now what?

I think it's pretty clear that I didn't have proper scumreads on Iece or Magical7.

You've used my hop onto the wagon against me, when I obviously thought Rob was scum Day 1 as well.

Please explain this contradiction.

Oh wait, I can do it for you:

I completely agree about Magical7 being scummy from her first posts and the later ones don't exactly impress either.

So why are you continuing to lie?

I had my vote on chkflip because I thought he must be scum faking the PR. I'm not sure what I think of that now.

You have an interesting way of calling someone scum then:

......

There are just so many really meh people. It's annoying.

Vote: chkflip

I also apologise if I've been rude or annoying previously. I've held back from saying things in this post that I probably would have posted before.

I haven't noticed anything, so I hope this apology was not geared towards me.

[I Am Innocent]

IaI what's your read on Nacho and Peregrine?

I have probably played more with Nacho then anyone else alive in this game. Yet I don't think I have ever played with scum Nacho, which makes me uneasy as I have never seen Nacho play like this before. I consider Nacho a top 10 scumhunter, but even better (top 5) at leading wagons and getting info. He is doing very little of that here. I'd say leanscum on the read.

PV I have also played with a bit (not sure ever as scum either), and he is being his usually lurky self***. The one thing that bothered me about him is when he came in and voted Magical7 D1 to even up wagons and get a vote on record, without doing any thread reading. Felt a bit forced. Null right now for PV.

***Do find it ironic that NS "aka an equal if not greater lurker historically as PV" has been the biggest proponent of a PV wagon.

Nacho's a good lynch now as he's too scummy to be crosskilled really -- and is legit scummy so that's cool.

I'd still say even if Nacho is scum, that he is probably a good bet to get crosskilled as there are so many bad or suspicious players in this game. Honestly I can think of only one person more likely than nacho to get crosskilled right now.

So no, I refuse to do scum's dirty work. I rather weed out the lurkers who will never see a bullet at night. Hence why I'd probably join a PV wagon over a Nacho wagon, despite my reads not aligning as such.

I am not seeing town Tiphaine. If I'm wrong about him then show me how.

I kinda think tiphaine is town now too, though.

You really believe Rob noticed all the Nacho votes and did not notice the reason why?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote TD
Vote PeregrineV

[I Am Innocent]

Need to catch up, but trying to do some analysis too.

Let's start with what we know:
Red team, down 2 goons (likely most/all power players left)
Purple team, down 2 power players (mostly/all goons left)

Of the 4 dead power players, 3 lurked pretty hard. Being multiball/crosskilling, I would suspect that is the strategy of most of the scum that could get away with it (PV played to his meta for example).

Sorry, it's summer Hols and the kids are taking up my time. I promise I'll get read up and put some thoughts in tomorrow AM (UK Time)

Over 2.5 days ago we had this promise. Still has not answered my question from D1. Is the only player not named PV that has yet to produce a vote D2.

Plus the whole vi, "let's get a counterwagon going" but as soon as the counterwagon turns to Snake "nope, vanilla moz has to die"

I'll provide specific posts of what I picked up from a moz wagon analysis at some point, as well as trying to catch up, but in the meantime, I'd appreciate some more of these:

vote Snake

[I Am Innocent]

Hey Aunt Jemima what do you think of Zdenek's interactions with Peregrine?

You've mentioned this a few times. I still have no clue what you are talking about here. Specific posts please?

I think a bunch of people were getting frustrated by the PR and like 1 or 2 threatened to lynch him. I kept calling it fake, and he had that mini wagon which I think was very half hearted.

Anyway, still sort of chilling out from this game for a bit since I don't generally enjoy pushing games for long period and I don't have a single direction I think is obviously the best, at the moment. Surprised no one asked for my "result" though

Assumed you were joking.

Are you also surprised nobody asked Muttley his result?

No. Scum very likely have Day talk, so it would not have been necessary for PeregrineV to signal in that manner. Also, I highly doubt there would be a multi-shot chicken-that-is-not-a-chicken that is scum-sided in this game.

Disclaimer: I am not calling ac1983fan a chicken.

Good, 'cause nobody calls me chicken.

woops wrong time travel-based franchise

Finally, a reference I get!

[I Am Innocent]

Vi's vote (purple) count as of 1647.

Dr Who (purple) is the top vote getter
PereV (red) is second
Magical (?) is third.

Bunch of singular votes thereafter.

Dr Who 10- ac1983fan,Zdenek,Vi,chkflip,Iecerint,SnakePlissken,The Rufflig,dramonic,Candillan,DeasVail,
PereV 3- Swift Justice,Twin Flames,Rift Adrift
Magical 2 -I am Innocent,Ghostlin,
CHKFlip 1 - Nachomamma8,,
Candillan 1- Mutleyddmc,
Icerent 1- Shiidaji,
WayneGG 1- Gut,
Gut 1- waynegg,
Zdenek 1 - Doctor Who
Snake 1 -Rubicon,

Not Voting
PeregrineV, Orestes, Magical7, PHENOM

(This observation brought to you by the Warden of Getting Things Done.)

Can be.

I'm concerned that in a couple of days there won't be enough time for anything other than a mozamis lynch, because for some reason people don't realize that lynches happen when you place

over a dozen

votes on the

same

person. mozamis' entrance doesn't really look overtly scummy, so I'm wondering what other options there are.

Vi defending Moz, and trying to get a wagon going elsewhere.

Vi 1654: "mozamis' posting hasn't been scummy, but it hasn't been Town beyond giving me pause, which is why I'm asking you and not just derailing this wagon in favor of PereV." See where she wants to take us. (PV/confirmed purple)

1671 is the first vote post the new wagon push (wayne for Snake)
1672 Gut says he could get behind a Snake lynch
1673-1674 Rob wonders to wayne/gut why snake instead of mozamis (very similar)
1679 Zdenek thinks Snake is a good vote
1683 Rob votes Gut
1688 SJ wonders how wayne is going to get 11 more votes on Snake, while he doesn't disagree that snake is a scumbag who needs to die
1690 Rift agrees that Snake could be one of the days possibilities (along with Iece and PV)
1691 Wayne drops it to just Snake and PV as suggested alternate bandwagons
1693 DV unvotes mozamis and votes Snake

Vi's concerns settling in:

That's weird. I thought the votes were moving toward PereV.

Wetfox, why

not

PereV?

1696 Rob goes back to voting mozamis
1706 Ruffling doesn't like Snake counter wagon, votes Iece (includes the weird snake quote from 2 yrs prior)
1723 Zdenek votes mozamis
1729 mozamis votes Zdenek
1740 rift leaning towards iece
1744 IAI votes Snake

1745 Vi is ready for the experiment to end/go back to mozamis. What changed? PV & Magical went down votes (1 and 3) respectively, while iece went up 2 votes and Snake 4 to become the 2nd leading wagon.

I agree with AC's post 174. Why the Baby Spice hate? She hadn't struck me very hard one way or the other. Yeah, I've got hindsight that she was town, but certainly up to that point can't see anything vig worthy.
Zdenek votes Magical for no reason p174. Second vote in a row without a reason.

VOTE ZDENEK

Yeah it's been a busy weekend. I also skimmed the first few pages, and missed something important -Candillan's post I think -so i then decided to get stuck in and so some PBPA.
I still think that was valid, gave me a chance to properly get into the game -but yeah, it will take me forever to catch up at that rate.

Aaaaand thought experiment done. More mozamis votes please.

U. Vote Count

mozamis 9 - ac1983fan, Vi, Iecerint, SnakePlissken, dramonic, Swift Justice, Mutleyddmc, Rob13, Zdenek
SnakePlissken 5 - Rubicon, Nachomamma8, waynegg, DeasVail, I Am Innocent
Iecerint 3 - Shiidaji, Gut, The Rufflig
PeregrineV 2 - Twin Flames, Rift Adrift
Rob13 1 - Ghostlin
waynegg 1 - chkflip
Zdenek 1 - mozamis

Not Voting:
PeregrineV, Orestes, Mac, Candillan

Later she ignores the Snake wagon as one that is going to make it, despite being the 2nd leading wagon.

U.Vote Count

mozamis 9 - ac1983fan, Vi, SnakePlissken, dramonic, Swift Justice, Mutleyddmc, Rob13, Zdenek, Oversoul
SnakePlissken 5 - Rubicon, Nachomamma8, waynegg, DeasVail, I am Innocent
Iecerint 4 - Gut, The Rufflig, Rift Adrift, Shiidaji
Rob13 3 - Ghostlin, Iecerint, chkflip
PeregrineV 1 - Twin Flames
Zdenek 1 - mozamis
Oversoul 1 - PeregrineV

Not Voting

Mac, Candillan

The only two of these wagons that's going to make it to lynch are mozamis and Iecerint. (And Not Voting, I suppose.)

Move your votes to one of those. Or actually lrn2campaign. But not for Rob13 or SnakePlissken.

Trying to discredit this wagon further:

SnakePlissken 5 - Rubicon, Nachomamma8, waynegg, DeasVail, I am Innocent

Yes this wagon is great and full of people I 100% trust

Couple of further posts by Vi:

1860: frowns on chkflp's Snake vote
1910: "Cut: And the Snakewagon is now tied with mozamis. At this point I'm really reaching into the depths of how seriously I can take this game."
1960: "As for SnakePlissken, see this post. I'm a sucker for reads lists, and it shows that SnakePlissken was, if nothing else, trying. That's (a lot) more than PereV has done, hence why I prefer the latter."

[I Am Innocent]

IaI (his snake vote is pretty bad actually. It should be a compromise vote, not a lynch that you're passionate enough to go for when you can do whatever you like)

What do you mean here?

[I Am Innocent]

I agree that he could easily be scum, and even that he's more likely than not scum, but there is really no point in voting for him here. He's not around, so there's no way, as things stand, to improve your read of him and I think a lynch of him is unlikely unless you have some yet to be divulged amazing reasoning up your sleeve. Which brings me to the fact that I don't believe you really have any great reasoning for him to be scum and that as town you'd be more likely to have a more passionate scumread that you could easily pursue with this directionless town.

"there is really no point in voting for him here. He's not around" How do you know he is not around? He promised to give a response day(s) ago.

"so there's no way, as things stand, to improve your read of him" Did you feel that way about PV too? Cause it was amazing how quickly PV started to play once a srs wagon started on him.

"I think a lynch of him is unlikely unless you have some yet to be divulged amazing reasoning up your sleeve." Did you read my Vi D1 analysis just a couple of posts up? No comment on that?

"Which brings me to the fact that I don't believe you really have any great reasoning for him to be scum" Repeating, did you read my Vi D1 analysis just a couple of posts up?

"and that as town you'd be more likely to have a more passionate scumread that you could easily pursue with this directionless town" He fits the typical multiball scum mold (lurking), his original lists which included potential SK players, still felt forced. He continues to ignore my D1 question, he has not even posted a vote yet D2, and Vi switching gears from trying to create a counterwagon to her teammate mozamis, to shutting down a counterwagon on Snake makes me wonder if he is a power Dalek that she didn't want lynched.

So nope, Snake is who I want dead at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

Look at that, a weak *** IaI vote. Tell me why I'm not surprised.

That was an equally awful vote though, but at least I'm honest with myself.

You think my vote is purely a lurker vote?

How about you answer these 2 questions:

1) Do you think Vi was trying to derail the mozamis wagon late D1?
2) If Snake is town, do you think Vi was just posturing at that point (up to and including where Snake's wagon actually tied mozamis's wagon)?

*************

Traveling for work the next few days with only phone internet access. Will be less active.

[I Am Innocent]

Prod dodge, hoping for a post later tonight or tomorrow morning.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm gonna kick back and vote for now.

vote Aunt Jemina

[I Am Innocent]

I'm reasonably certain there's no way I can talk my way out of this one.

Yet you have 10 posts trying to do so. Your posts feel as tho you are still trying to play to your win condition.

Not going to lie, a leashed Roleblocker/NK is very tempting, but I played with you in You Can Be Anyone. You were very good, not many scum fooled me the way you did that game. I don't believe you are "just curious", I believe you are trying to prolong your game to help your team win, which means I'm willing to bet there is another member still alive.

My vote stays.

[I Am Innocent]

I am Jenny, the Doctors Daughter btw

[I Am Innocent]

I'm reasonably certain there's no way I can talk my way out of this one. If Zeddy were faking it, he faked it perfectly, as I am not dalek-scum.

I am Omega, Timelord Roleblocker.

I am claiming this because I am the last member of my faction. I have no scumbuddies left after Grinny died. I realize you won't believe me, until you consistently see a lack of timelord-kills if you lynch me, but it's the truth. I have no scumbuddy. The reason why is because our faction is rather strong with just three members. Dramonic wasn't just a godfather. He was also a ninja. His role gave him immunity to ANY investigations. Including watchers and trackers. Grinny was a watcher as you already know, and I am a roleblocker. We also possess daytalk, which would have given us an edge if our members hadn't quickly been eliminated.

Rubi roleblocked Snake N1, and dramonic killed Vi that same night. Night two, I roleblocked Twin Flames because I picked up a PR vibe from them, and killed Rifty Drifty fully knowing they were a VT because I thought of them to be confirmed town who (unlike fanny and Swifty) would not be protected.

I am offering my services to the town to replace your vig, thus, why I am claiming all of this.

I too think the TL's are gone based on the lack of kills last night. With that said, I believe AJ now about her roleblock targets, which would make Twin Flames not an SK (the N2 SK kill went thru), and partially (half?) unlikely to be a Dalek, since their kill went thru too.

I'd add them to your list of unlynchables for the day SJ.

With the TLs gone, and the only known daleks being gone by end of N1, I think I am going to look back at D1 some more to see what
I can find.

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah, Iece's entrance on the DW wagon, and his push of wayne afterwards, who defends DW, both make me believe non-dalek.

Here are some tidbits that did jump out at me:

After 7 straight votes for Dr Who, wayne does this:

I think you're trying too hard to hang onto your scumread of me personally.

I think you're trying to hard to discredit it.

VOTE: DeasVail

Reads are laughable, but most notably is where DW is (and the comment that goes with it):

So, where I stand

*4 Rubicon- not enough to really evaluate, but sending scum vibes
*5 SnakePlissken- lots of hedged statements, but maybe he's just trying to make a good showing in his return game...
*9 chkflip
*10 PeregrineV- obv prod dodger
*15 Orestes- in way over his head and needs to replace out or man up
*18 PHENOM- hasn't posted ONCE!
*21 Rift Adrift- <redacted>, leaning scum
*23 Candillan
*24 ac1983fan- CFKD, read



Scum

12 Zdenek- aggressively defends ~no vote on him?!?~ from 615 until someone tells him to basically shut the fuck up. Still won't let it go though... I can only take this as found scum seeing me as a threat for calling his hand on his wonky 615 vote in 616 and its really quite lololololol! However, is this normal out of him?
11 Gut- and nauseum, et al, itt
26 Twin Flames- 401 which also tethers to Rift
1 DeasVail- if flips scum, 1187; tie it to Vi daykill and dislike for "Vi"
6 Ghostlin- see Harry Potter


Town

14 Swift Justice- is so easy to read! like looking in a mirror!
3 Iecerint
20 Vi- but "crazybus" is going to fuck with me if Zednek flips scum, even more so mind fuck if ac1983fan flips town
17 Magical7
19 The Rufflig
27 Mutleyddmc
16 dramonic- a bit VI but town all the same
22 Nachomamma8
13 I am Innocent
25 Shiidaji
8 Doctor Who- and I was really wanting him to be scum

About Vi. I'm reading him town right now it he could quickly go scum if either DeasVail or Zdenek flip scum. Here's why- he appears to be legitimately irritated at a couple of players for addressing him directly, and even alluded to it with his "daykill" post. I kinda get the picture of some clingy toddlers who have been warned in QT (working on as yet unverified Jason likes daytalk assumption (thanks Equinox)) about directly addressing Vi, and finally he had enough of it and puts one in timeout. The Crazybus link didn't help much either.

Reasoning:

Anyhow, Ice. Following that process keeps me unbiased and what I read is what I read. DW has pretty clear town intent at this point, even if I don't agree with his points all the time.

pedit- yes, because it has to be for now.

Proceeds to vote Gut, Zdenek, Snake, before late day votes on Vi and then the hammer on DW/mozamis.

vote DrippingGoofBall

As for my vote of Snake D1, the reasons were:

1) His list felt shady as he had every player listed in a category, including SK
2) He contradicted his reason for sticking players in the SK category: "they don't come across scummy at all" yet 2 of the 3 had major wagons that day
3) The lurking and not responding to my followup question in #2 above
4) The weird Ruffling defense post where he had a quote from Snake from a few years prior

[I Am Innocent]

I wonder if IaI is the SK.

Cause Nacho died, and he was starting to push me?

Dram was the N1 SK kill. When he died, I looked back as Dram and all I saw was Rubicon, Rubicon, Rubicon. So I naturally wondered if Rubicon(/later Aunt Jemina) was the SK killing someone who was pushing hard on him. He/she was not.

So here are my currents thoughts:
1) the dram kill was to set up Rubicon
2) the SK suspected dram might be scum
3) dram was not likely to be protected by a doc or killed by scum

While #1 may not have been the sole reason, I am sure the SK was aware of it when they decided who to kill.

#2 I have no idea, but my notes had lean scum of dramonic before he died (didn't like his town read of iece back in 236, didn't like his revote in 618 of Rubicon post vig with no other analysis of the death or push for baby spice, then 1091 was also marked, but not sure why now).

#3 no-brainer that this was the case going into N1

Fast forward to nacho:

#1 Well I have inside information and I found it amusing when I saw Nacho was killed realizing that I was likely being set up.

#2 Nacho had not been investigated yet so very well could have been dalek scum to the SK

#3 With a dalek and time-lord cop out there, the SK surely would have thought Nacho would likely be off the scum's radar

Plus Nacho, despite a poor game this one, is still a solid player, so add that as a 4th reason as well.

So yeah, I could see why you'd feel that way about me, but sorry, it's not the case.

[I Am Innocent]

if you loved me you would investigate IaI

This was Nacho's last post, well last one of any substance (4+ words).

Then he dies, which makes it look like I'm the one that wanted him dead. But as I mentioned early, I have inside information....being on my role that is. I know I'm not the SK, so why was Nacho killed over Zdenek, SJ, etc?

Then I realized it was barely different than the dram kill. Dram pushed ONE PLAYER, ALL OF DAY 1. Rubicon.

So why kill Dram, unless the SK was looking for an easy target that might put pressure on someone other than the SK, which we now know Rubicon was not.

That was the basis for my earlier post, sorry if has caused as much confusion as it appears to have done.

My top 2 for Red scum are DGB and Titus. I think if iece was really red scum, we would have seen a fake doctor claim to see if there is a CC to ferret out. But going down as a vanilla townie does not make sense for red scum. So I continue to think that he is a poor choice for today's lynch.

[I Am Innocent]

Iece - iai, the latter's all iioa, plus the only interaction from the scumslots was 712 and that's just Vi asiding calling bullshit on iai. His own ISO is damning too, 0 legit ctr+f Vi/moza hits whatsoever while they were both alive, and the only mention of DW was in 1343 which itself is buddy-likely as the question is a gimme -

**************

Doctor Who's vote of zdenek and defense of waynegg in 647 is just bad. Town pts for Rift for calling it out in 648.

I haven't ignored what is going on, I'm only adding commentary when I have something pertinent to add.

Top 3 town and scum reads please.

**************

look at this post in the context of IAI's ISO, it's so random and out there, and the 'top 3 reads pls' is totally something I can see scum asking a buddy, very noncommittal scumhunting, without any of the town intent of actually reading the poster.

Lazy scumhunting, control f'ing. Apparently in my "long iso" you missed this:

.
.
.

Unfortunately, she's not actually seeing anything.

So, what are your thoughts on Gut?

Please list your top 3 town and top 3 scum reads in your next post please. Need stances from you.

and this:

.
.
.

@Equinox Lurking would be reading and not posting. I've barely read this thread as too many damn walls.

We need to get rid of darth vader

Top 3 town and scum reads please?
.
.
.

The second one which is really funny cause it is in the exact same post as the one I asked Dr Who.

Now finish the sentence Shii, lazy scumhunting is an indicator of _____________

[I Am Innocent]

Okay, IaI is probably scum.

Please investigate me. Need some extra motivation to do so, here you go.

vote iecerint

Scum/SK, consider this a

doc claim

. Please kill me tonight. This game....I can't do it anymore and I have to much respect for Jason to make him get a replacement with this many pages.

[I Am Innocent]

(Psst any particular reason people aren't voting IaI who claimed Town Doctor in twilight, when we have a town doctor flipped?)

So you think my goal was to get a doc CC in twilight, when a real doc knows they have no chance of getting me lynched anyway that day since the hammer had happened?

Or could I have been really trying to draw a NK by pretending to be a doc? Or by my scummy hammer without letting discussion continue.

The truth is, you....YOU pushed for iecerint. I tried to tell you he wasn't red scum, because of the VT town claim. But nobody listened. You hinted I might be next on the chopping block. Well I had not claimed, and taking me to L-1 and getting another VT claim would just reduce the pool of possible docs.

Well for the second straight day, I will say, what scum motivation does the player you....YOU are pushing for have for doing the things they've done. Like why would scum/SK IAI try to save iece? Why make a doc claim in twilight? Or why come off as looking like scum/SK with the quickhammer and drawing a kill from "the other team"?

Wwhen you hopefully learn from you prior mistakes, maybe you can push a better wagon. Like one on all these sheep that you have. Ever think of that??? If not, I'll laugh at both of you in the dead qt...

vote DGB

[I Am Innocent]

IAI, why was Iecerint town for his VT claim, but DGB's not town for her's?

We went from 3 kills a night, to 1 kill a night, the same night that 2 cops outted themselves. That pointed to a doctor saving our cop. So when a person is up on the gallows the very next day, and claims vanilla instead of trying to get a doc CC, it seemed pretty obvious to me he wasn't red scum (not vanilla like you are indicating).

Still not sure why DGB claimed when she did. All I know was 1) she reduced the number of unknowns in the doc pool which was anti-town, and 2) if she was scum, it likely saved her from being a NK target as both teams apparently went doc hunting last night.

[I Am Innocent]

What I'm currently thinking is that I'll go for either IaI or Rufflig today, but this may change over the weekend when I have time to read through some things.

Why again is it you I am scum?

[I Am Innocent]

*Why again is it you think I am scum?

[I Am Innocent]

Actually, that was in addition to why IAI thought Iecerint was town. The first reason reads thus:

Yeah, Iece's entrance on the DW wagon, and his push of wayne afterwards, who defends DW, both make me believe non-dalek.

wayne aka DrippingGoofball.

Oh yeah, that was actually just more BS, so I don't understand your point.

How was it BS?

oh yeah, it wasn't because iece flipped town, which means I was right.

[I Am Innocent]

I was voting DGB most of D4 until I unvoted to hammer iece

[I Am Innocent]

Actually, that was in addition to why IAI thought Iecerint was town. The first reason reads thus:

Yeah, Iece's entrance on the DW wagon, and his push of wayne afterwards, who defends DW, both make me believe non-dalek.

wayne aka DrippingGoofball.

Oh yeah, that was actually just more BS, so I don't understand your point.

How was it BS?

oh yeah, it wasn't because iece flipped town, which means I was right.

Show me where Iece pushed on wayne.

Hint - he didn't. He called him town and defended him.

What it should have said was "and his push of wayne

's read

afterwards, who defends DW". See below:

Wayne, can you explain why DW is town despite you wanting him to be scum?

None of that explains his reaction to the Gut wagon, though.

I don't really see the town thought process in that post, but it also seems like a post with some shaky grammar, so maybe I'm just not reading it correctly, or maybe the context is really important?

He didn't really disagree on Gut at first, though. He ignored the wagon as an event, despite it being the major event in the thread at the time. It seemed like he was kinda awkwardly hoping it would go away on its own.

Didn't come across as someone mildly bussing a partner. Unlike Wayne, who listed DW as town despite wanting him to be scum.

[I Am Innocent]

IaI vanishing as soon as the pressure is off, does not give me good feelings.

I am the leading vote getter, how is that "pressure is off"?

I'm still following along, but at this point my motivation is gone. I know that sounds scummy, but it is the truth. I have thrown out ideas, but they have either been ignored (iece is not red scum because he claimed VT) or I am called scummy for it (Dram kill was likely to set up Rubicon***). Whatever. Vote me. Or vote DGB. Don't waste your vote on Rufflig, pretty sure he is town.

***I find it comical how DV says he isn't SK because he wouldn't be scared of Dram....who would?!?!? Truth be told, nobody as yet has given me a reason he died other than mine which is it was to set up Rubicon. Willing to bet a month of time on mafiascum DV is the SK. Or maybe the Godfather. He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, which if you go back to the beginning, was a really lame reason for suspecting me. Couldn't even answer why he found me scummy when I recently asked him. Just remember this after I flip town.

[I Am Innocent]

*Why again is it you think I am scum?

IaI, I don't think you've done anything that is particularly unlikely to come from scum.

This was not an answer for the record.

[I Am Innocent]

1 DeasVail
2 DrippingGoofball*
6 Titus
9 chkflip
12 Zdenek
13 I am Innocent
14 Swift Justice
15 Oversoul*
17 TiphaineDeath
19 The Rufflig
23 Candillan
25 Shiidaji*
26 Twin Flames*

--

There are 13 people alive. There are most likely only 3 scum left. With the innocents, we have Zdenek, Swift Justice, Shiidaji, TiphaineDeath, DeasVail, and myself so we do not have to look into that pool for scum. That is 6 innocents. If we lynch the non-innocents for the rest of the game that that is at most 2 innocents lost a night. Worst case scenario involves 3 mislynches losing all 6 of our innocents to put us at 4 remaining players, one townie, one SK, 2 mafia at which point there is a good chance for a kingmaker or Prisoner dilemma. Best case scenario we lynch the 3 scum in our next 3 lynches losing only a single townie due to multiple shots on the same person, we win. What will actually happen is in between.

So let's just kill the shit in this pile:
2 DrippingGoofball*
6 Titus
9 chkflip
13 I am Innocent
19 The Rufflig
23 Candillan
26 Twin Flames*

And move on with our lives.
There. Vote Titus.

This is basically how I feel with one change, I think twin flames is more likely not scum/not sk than the investigated based off of AJ's role block claim, so I would consider them off limits too for now.

Any of the other six is where our focus should be.

[I Am Innocent]

Traveling out of state today for a wedding so

V/LA until monday

[I Am Innocent]

I'm waiting on IAI to get back as I want to ask some questions before finalizing the choice.

I'm back, ask away.

Actually, Candillan, no one has made a case on IAI today. I admit that the hammer from IAI lacked town motivation. However, I'm not sure what the scum motivation would have been. Any thoughts?

He hammered the person that he "read" as town as soon as people started seeing him as scum? (And we had a whole four days left before deadline, so that's totally not a factor.)

I did not "read" him as town, but non-red scum due to a lack of a fake doc claim. And I already explained why I hammered when I did. Why do you keep ignoring the post where I explain the reasoning for it?

[I Am Innocent]

I forgot IaI did that fake claim. I want to kill him for it because it looks like implied knowledge of a doctor. That kill last night looks targeted...

Well if it makes you feel any better, I'd say odds are it is going to be me today.

**********************

Please all don't forget this after I flip, the last time DV voted someone not named IAI was D2. DAY TWO! He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, and when I asked him why I have been his top target since D2, all he can say is I am less townie than everyone else. Pretty weak suspicion considering the many days of tunneling. I've played that angle as scum too, pick a unique target for scum who isn't going to be lynched or isn't loud/outspoken, and ride (and hide behind) that suspicion for days on end.

Pretty sure he is an SK/GF. Unfortunately, I agree with Oversoul that we need to focus on the list of not investigated***, so I understand DV not getting pressure right now. But please don't forget this guy before endgame.

***not investigated list likely has between 1 and 3 bad guys in it, investigated list likely has between 0 and 2. Until those are equal odds, the not investigated list needs to be targeted.

[I Am Innocent]

Swift Justice, if you had to lynch someone right now, who would it be?

As someone unwilling to move yourr vote, why do you care?

[I Am Innocent]

Vote count?

[I Am Innocent]

Here is the player list. I think it can be divided into 3 groups:

Here is the list of players SJ investigated that came back as not Dalek:

DeasVail
Oversoul
TiphaineDeath
Shiidaji

Then there is the player that was roleblocked, according to AJ, N2, when 3 players died. Meaning IF AJ was telling the truth, this person is not the SK nor the Dalek that performed the kill:

Twin Flames

Then there is everyone else:

DrippingGoofball
Titus
I am Innocent
The Rufflig
Candillan

There is almost assuredly at least one bad guy in this group of 5, and possibly more. The only way there is not is if the GF and SK were both investigated by SJ and the GF did the killing N2 for the Daleks (or AJ is lying about who the TL roleblocked N2).

Still I think someone from this group of 5 needs to be the lynch target today.

I am not voting myself, nor will I vote any town reads in this group (Rufflig).

I will re-read up on the other three's actions D1 starting at the time Doctor Who got pressure. I already know that I found Wayne's actions suspect, but want to look at the other two as well.

[I Am Innocent]

Day 5 Vote Count 8 with lynch in post 5130
CHKFlip 7 - Oversoul,DGB,Swift Justice,Twin Flames,The Rufflig,Shiidaji,Candillan
I am Innocent 3- chkflip,DeasVail, Titus,
DGB 1 -

I am Innocent,,

The Ruffling 1 - TiphaineDeath,
Twin Flames 1 - Zdenek,


Even though chkflip was voting for him he did not join the lynch wagon on chkflip. That seems very likely he is the one off the wagon.


VOTE: IaI

Well you obv ignored my last post of D5 when I asked what the vote count was when I logged into my phone during lunch on Monday and saw (incorrectly) that we were at the deadline. So because Candillan beat me by minutes to the hammer, that makes him town and me scum? Looking at the final vote count and not how one got there is very lazy.

Plus there is the point that Rufflig already brought up, which is why scum/SK IAI would be hesitant to join any other viable wagon that is not his own, esp one that we now know was town?

Truth is I didn't see chk as red scum. His entrance on the Doctor Who wagon was early and non hesitant. But yes, with the deadline coming, I was certainly ready to move to him over me.

[I Am Innocent]

I was in the emergency room last night, these last couple weeks have not been fun,

vote twinflames

Do you think Aunt Jemima was lying about the roleblock N2?

[I Am Innocent]

With IaI, however, I don't find anything very town.

So this wasn't very town:

I think if iece was really red scum, we would have seen a fake doctor claim to see if there is a CC to ferret out. But going down as a vanilla townie does not make sense for red scum. So I continue to think that he is a poor choice for today's lynch.

(I really don't care about your answer, because I'm pretty sure your a bad guy, most likely the SK. Don't worry, I will ensure my death exposes you.)

[I Am Innocent]

PEdit: This is another post. I still think you're scum.

PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: IaI
Can we do this please?

All this because I hammered with 4 days left to lynch? I'll ask you again, did you read my post explaining why?

[I Am Innocent]

PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

You haven't been lynched yet. I have a good feeling about today though.

Please list the 8 players not named DV or IAI from scummiest to towniest, with reasons why. You're not hiding behind your tunneling of me anymore.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm reasonably certain there's no way I can talk my way out of this one. If Zeddy were faking it, he faked it perfectly, as I am not dalek-scum.

I am Omega, Timelord Roleblocker.

I am claiming this because I am the last member of my faction. I have no scumbuddies left after Grinny died. I realize you won't believe me, until you consistently see a lack of timelord-kills if you lynch me, but it's the truth. I have no scumbuddy. The reason why is because our faction is rather strong with just three members. Dramonic wasn't just a godfather. He was also a ninja. His role gave him immunity to ANY investigations. Including watchers and trackers. Grinny was a watcher as you already know, and I am a roleblocker. We also possess daytalk, which would have given us an edge if our members hadn't quickly been eliminated.

Rubi roleblocked Snake N1, and dramonic killed Vi that same night. Night two, I roleblocked Twin Flames because I picked up a PR vibe from them, and killed Rifty Drifty fully knowing they were a VT because I thought of them to be confirmed town who (unlike fanny and Swifty) would not be protected.

I am offering my services to the town to replace your vig, thus, why I am claiming all of this.

Night 2 she claimed she roleblocked Twin Flames. Night 2 also provided three deaths:

muttley was Polly, Vanilla town stabbed with a sharp object night 2
AC1983fan was The Master, 4 shot anytime town vig exterminated Night 2
Rift Adrift was Wilfred Mott, Vanilla town killed night 2

So if AJ is telling the truth, Twin Flames could not have performed any of these kills.

[I Am Innocent]

PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

You haven't been lynched yet. I have a good feeling about today though.

Please list the 8 players not named DV or IAI from scummiest to towniest, with reasons why. You're not hiding behind your tunneling of me anymore.

Convenient how you disappear 4 mins after ur last post...

[I Am Innocent]

I think one. Rach thinks two. I did check, and flavour supports two more red, but my gut in re: balance says one. Another possibility is that there is one remaining purple who is no-killing just to hide, one red and one SK. (Rach pooh-pooh'ed this when I mentioned it, but I mention it here for sake of completeness.)

Dead Purple: GF, Roleblocker, Watcher
Dead Red: 2 Goons

Forget the flavor, if there are two scum (non SK) left, how could they not both be red for balancing purposes?

Still one more possibility is that we are down to only the SK, but I think this is highly unlikely, again for balance reasons.

How does "down to only the SK" jive with 2 players being killed last night?

[I Am Innocent]

Correct me if I am wrong, but just because one scum is blocked can't another shoot?

Yes, but if AJ was telling the truth, TF can't be the SK nor the red scum that produced the shot N2. Which severly reduces their chance of being bad, one could argue even more so than the investigated players by SJ.

[I Am Innocent]

Maybe I should sheep Deasvail.

I definitely think you should:

Unvote: IaI
Vote: DGB

Or you could sheep me...

Vote DGB

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry DV, you dug your own grave. Was willing to let you live one day longer, but if I am going down, the SK is coming with me...

unvote DGB
vote DV

Congrats town, you caught a scum:

Claim: Dalek Caan
Role: Cult of Skaro Goon

Here is my evidence against DV, the likely bulletproof SK.

N1, we debated about killing ACFan. We hesitated because we all felt there was a doctor, or at least watcher. So we went with Gut per Vi's suggestion.

N2, after the scum watcher was dead and confirmed nobody (including a doctor) targeted ACFan, we took our shot at him and successfully got rid of that thorn in our side (two lynches a day was too much). It didn't hurt that ACFan finished with his vote on me.

N3, we still had concerns about a doctor, so instead of wasting a shot on a cop, we thought we take out one of his investigation targets who could also be a doctor.

WE TARGETED DV WITH THE NK

, a thorn in my side, and somehow he didn't die. The chances of a doc protecting him were nil to none. Only explanation left is he must be bulletproof, which to me sounds like the SK (with so many killing methods out there anyway, that helps their chances of winning the game).

N4, we obv lucked into displaced. Since it wasn't me that figured displaced was the likely doctor, I am refusing to explain how until postgame for fear of possibly giving clues back to a teammate.

N5, with the doc gone and SJ never investigating me, it was a no-brainer.

So yeah, by D5, with us no longer needing the SK's help to kill a possible doc,

I figured I'd start my breadcrumbs

:

Post 4728 - ***I find it comical how DV says he isn't SK because he wouldn't be scared of Dram....who would?!?!? Truth be told, nobody as yet has given me a reason he died other than mine which is it was to set up Rubicon. Willing to bet a month of time on mafiascum DV is the SK. Or maybe the Godfather. He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, which if you go back to the beginning, was a really lame reason for suspecting me. Couldn't even answer why he found me scummy when I recently asked him. Just remember this after I flip town.

Post 5005 - Please all don't forget this after I flip, the last time DV voted someone not named IAI was D2. DAY TWO! He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, and when I asked him why I have been his top target since D2, all he can say is I am less townie than everyone else. Pretty weak suspicion considering the many days of tunneling. I've played that angle as scum too, pick a unique target for scum who isn't going to be lynched or isn't loud/outspoken, and ride (and hide behind) that suspicion for days on end.

Pretty sure he is an SK/GF. Unfortunately, I agree with Oversoul that we need to focus on the list of not investigated***, so I understand DV not getting pressure right now. But please don't forget this guy before endgame.

Post 5194 - (I really don't care about your answer, because I'm pretty sure your a bad guy, most likely the SK. Don't worry, I will ensure my death exposes you.)

Post 5195 - PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

[I Am Innocent]

PS My favorite crumb though was one SJ chided me for "Willing to bet a month of time on mafiascum DV is the SK"

Anyone still want to take that bet???

[I Am Innocent]

Close runner-up tho..."I'm pretty sure your a bad guy, most likely the SK. Don't worry, I will ensure my death exposes you."

That was a good one too.

[I Am Innocent]

I forgot IaI did that fake claim. I want to kill him for it because it looks like implied knowledge of a doctor. That kill last night looks targeted...

Well if it makes you feel any better, I'd say odds are it is going to be me today.

**********************

Please all don't forget this after I flip

, the last time DV voted someone not named IAI was D2. DAY TWO! He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, and when I asked him why I have been his top target since D2, all he can say is I am less townie than everyone else. Pretty weak suspicion considering the many days of tunneling. I've played that angle as scum too, pick a unique target for scum who isn't going to be lynched or isn't loud/outspoken, and ride (and hide behind) that suspicion for days on end.

Pretty sure he is an SK

/GF. Unfortunately, I agree with Oversoul that we need to focus on the list of not investigated***, so I understand DV not getting pressure right now. But please don't forget this guy before endgame.

***not investigated list likely has between 1 and 3 bad guys in it, investigated list likely has between 0 and 2. Until those are equal odds, the not investigated list needs to be targeted.

Sorry DV, you dug your own grave. Was willing to let you live one day longer, but if I am going down, the SK is coming with me...

unvote DGB
vote DV

Congrats town, you caught a scum:

Claim: Dalek Caan
Role: Cult of Skaro Goon

Here is my evidence against DV, the likely bulletproof SK.

N1, we debated about killing ACFan. We hesitated because we all felt there was a doctor, or at least watcher. So we went with Gut per Vi's suggestion.

N2, after the scum watcher was dead and confirmed nobody (including a doctor) targeted ACFan, we took our shot at him and successfully got rid of that thorn in our side (two lynches a day was too much). It didn't hurt that ACFan finished with his vote on me.

N3, we still had concerns about a doctor, so instead of wasting a shot on a cop, we thought we take out one of his investigation targets who could also be a doctor.

WE TARGETED DV WITH THE NK

, a thorn in my side, and somehow he didn't die. The chances of a doc protecting him were nil to none. Only explanation left is he must be bulletproof, which to me sounds like the SK (with so many killing methods out there anyway, that helps their chances of winning the game).

N4, we obv lucked into displaced. Since it wasn't me that figured displaced was the likely doctor, I am refusing to explain how until postgame for fear of possibly giving clues back to a teammate.

N5, with the doc gone and SJ never investigating me, it was a no-brainer.

So yeah, by D5, with us no longer needing the SK's help to kill a possible doc,

I figured I'd start my breadcrumbs

:

Post 4728 - ***I find it comical how DV says he isn't SK because he wouldn't be scared of Dram....who would?!?!? Truth be told, nobody as yet has given me a reason he died other than mine which is it was to set up Rubicon. Willing to bet a month of time on mafiascum DV is the SK. Or maybe the Godfather. He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, which if you go back to the beginning, was a really lame reason for suspecting me. Couldn't even answer why he found me scummy when I recently asked him. Just remember this after I flip town.

Post 5005 - Please all don't forget this after I flip, the last time DV voted someone not named IAI was D2. DAY TWO! He has hidden behind his tunneling of me, and when I asked him why I have been his top target since D2, all he can say is I am less townie than everyone else. Pretty weak suspicion considering the many days of tunneling. I've played that angle as scum too, pick a unique target for scum who isn't going to be lynched or isn't loud/outspoken, and ride (and hide behind) that suspicion for days on end.

Pretty sure he is an SK/GF. Unfortunately, I agree with Oversoul that we need to focus on the list of not investigated***, so I understand DV not getting pressure right now. But please don't forget this guy before endgame.

Post 5194 - (I really don't care about your answer, because I'm pretty sure your a bad guy, most likely the SK. Don't worry, I will ensure my death exposes you.)

Post 5195 - PEdit, you still haven't voted anyone not named IAI since D2. I still think you're SK (or maybe a GF)

(Bold in first post added for emphasis)

[I Am Innocent]

Kudos to Candillan for not listening to me about Shii being likely bulletproof. My suggestion was to make sure the SK was lynched when the group got down to 5. Gutsy move playing it the way he did, but it paid off! Nice job buddy!

PS - Jason, you forgot to mention that Candillan was a tracker, which is how we knew about the doctor (another good call by Candillan) as well as the SK by the end game. Candillan def gets the MVP for our team!!!

[I Am Innocent]

Yes, and thanks to Jason for modding. You know I love your games. Though I still think with a doctor and cult cop that we should have had a roleblocker, watcher, GF, or something better than tracker to offset that. Oh well, it ended up working out!

[I Am Innocent]

Yes, and thanks to Jason for modding. You know I love your games. Though I still think with a doctor and cult cop that we should have had a roleblocker, watcher, GF, or something better than tracker to offset that. Oh well, it ended up working out!

Tracker is definitely more useful than GF (depending on who draws it) here. GF paranoia will do a lot, anyway. If you lose the tracker early it becomes difficult though

Yeah preference would have been to have the roleblocker, then watcher, then GF, then tracker.

Just felt helpless when SJ was investigating and doc kept protecting him (our failed N3 attempt). The other scum team and SK had no reason to want SJ dead at that point, and we had no way of stopping SJ from figuring out our whole team (roleblock/GF would have helped), or figuring out the doctor outside of luck (here a watcher on SJ would have helped). Luckily Candillan figured out displaced, that was probably the most important move of the game for us.

As much as I grumbled in the dead qt and in here, I actually think Shii has the bigger gripe. 4 shot anytime vig, plus a kill per night from each scum team, a non-bullet proof SK hardly has a chance (esp since the tracker, watcher, roleblock could all help figure him out).

So well done Shii on making it so far. I really thought when Candillan didn't push your lynch that last day that you were going to win (because of being BP).