The Second Fortnight (Game Over)

[Rob14]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

(mutiny)

[Rob14]

Re: Banakai's #14 - Kanye does always act like this, and it makes him a great policy lynch in normal games. Probably not here.

#23 - Is kanye actually scum? That would be really cool cause I could lynch kanye and actually be right.

#29 - DGB looking kind of town

#35 - Banakai prob-town as well

#49 - T-bone = scum scum scummy scum. Trying to look casual and failing

#54 - Prof Fridays, mixed feelings here. Like the read, don't like the post's feel

#58 - Quality post. Town!Kanye. RIP my sanity for the rest of the game.

#63 - Banakai - what? Kanye just delivered serious content. This is an awful vote. Not sure if it's scummy, but seriously, no.

#72 - Fucking lol.

#75 - Good vote by Sonic, but I want a reason instead of just a sheep.

#83 - Prof Fridays - Why would he crumb that he's scum? lolwut?

#90 - I'm glad that UT caught the above and sad that kanye didn't.

#95 - Prof Fridays, dropping newb tells. Not sure they're scummy. They're just really new.

#114 - Bulge is not reading. Tbone never self-voted. He no lynch voted.

#116 - Aegor is going for low hanging fruit, not analyzing motivations.

#134 - farside is prob town, good post

#136 - Metal Sonic prob town.

#141 - @Kuribo, Was it dumb or was it scummy, or both?

#142 - Found scum in Bulge.

#147 - So your defense is that when you're town, you think like scum, so everything you do will be anti-town and scum motivated. Uh, nope. no no no no no no no nope.

#161 - No Banakai, you're not getting off that easy. Why did you vote him AT THE TIME when he had JUST posted serious content? And why are you looking out for obv pressure votes? That does not come from town.

#167 - Banakai with a sheep vote offering no content. Path of least resistance. Scum.

#170 - And metal picked up on it, cool.

#201 - WTF are you doing DGB. Kuribo, plz read for me.

M'kay, reads list. None of this leaning bullshit, it's time for absolutes.

Town:
DrippingGoofball
farside22
INAUFTA (Cheery Dog)
kanyeknowsbest
kuribo
Metal Sonic

No Read:
Aegor
hiplop
Marquis
Prof Fridays
Quilford
Untrod Tripod

Scum:
Banakai
T-bone
The Bulge

VOTE: Banakai

[Rob14]

[SNIP]

i hate reading players who post like these.

kuribo, leaving this guy to you. dgb you too but we gotta sort you first

cheery dog is prob town

I'm not going to normally post like that, but it's necessary to catch up when you miss 8 pages at once.

[Rob14]

only 8 pages? lol

I may not have known what I was getting myself into ...

[Rob14]

#63 - Banakai - what? Kanye just delivered serious content. This is an awful vote. Not sure if it's scummy, but seriously, no.


#161 - No Banakai, you're not getting off that easy. Why did you vote him AT THE TIME when he had JUST posted serious content? And why are you looking out for obv pressure votes? That does not come from town.

#167 - Banakai with a sheep vote offering no content. Path of least resistance. Scum.

VOTE: Banakai

The spelling was so horrendous that I could hardly tell that it was good content, kinda looked like he was just making shit up on the spot and I still don't know exactly what that post means.

"sheep vote" did you read the rest of the post that doesn't involve kanye in which I explained that I thought T-bone was acting odd?

Saying "T-bone is acting odd" does not constitute any original thinking.

I don't buy that you can't tell that kanye saying "OK, no more RVS, these are my reasons for voting someone. *cast vote*" is serious. I don't buy it even a little bit.

[Rob14]

I thought Quilford hadn't posted yet for some reason, so I went back and looked. I don't see how DGB gets town from it. Pretty null, not very helpful.

[Rob14]

Also the bulges posts after his initial reads post look really suspicious, sounds like he is trying to say that if he is like mafia it's because he's "shit at town" and "plays with a scum mindset", and then he mentions that his scum play is different and then doesn't mention how? If he had other suspicious posts he would probbably be my biggest scum read now


Also I think I decided who to vote

VOTE: T-bone

Seriously, you're going to BUS????

This is where my Banakai theory falls apart. I just don't see how one of {T-Bone, Bulge} is not scum at this point, and he's voted both. So I'm wrong about one or the other.

Or, I can kind of still see {Banakai, T-Bone}, given how fast off that wagon Banakai was.

[Rob14]

No, I NKed you to get HD in LYLO. That game was great.

[Rob14]

T-Bone, maybe everyone thinks they're scum because ... idk ... they're scummy?

By your logic, any person who missed a few pages and agrees with the current wagon is scum. That's awful scumhunting and you should feel bad.

[Rob14]

Rather it's not anyone else's fault that your reads list reads like a highlight reel of everyone else's reads. Also, explain how a combination of any three of your scumreads makes sense as a scumteam.

I already analyzed that in a previous post. Plz read.

[Rob14]

Read everything, pretty much just reinforced existing reads. Give me a second and I'll post some questions that I had.

---

Town:
DrippingGoofball
farside22
INAUFTA (Cheery Dog)
kanyeknowsbest
kuribo
Metal Sonic
hiplop

No Read:
Aegor
Marquis
Prof Fridays
Quilford
Untrod Tripod

Scum:
Banakai
T-bone
The Bulge

[Rob14]

@rob: why did you state that you saw aegor going after low hanging fruit?

At the time, I disliked his push onto Banakai, but rereading it, I don't find it as objectionable. The thing I take more issue with is the fence-sitting on T-Bone, but still, the slot is pretty null for me.

I am scumhunting, I already identified several townies, caught 2 high-likelihood scum candidates, and paid attention to lurkers to not leave any stone unturned.

Can you explain why you'd vote a lurker over someone you think is scum with high likelihood, especially given that others do not share your scum reads?

Kuribo mentioned his goal last game was to break associate tells, and I think scum will probably do that this game (as it's the best play imo). Hence my theory is that the two scum will play different styles to try and get through the day. One being loud and one being laid back is an obvious approach. One trying to direct the town and one sheeping is another obvious approach to me.

Except differing play has nothing to do with avoiding associative tells. I'm really not understanding you here.

That said
I hate your play style this game. Something missing.

This comes from town. Also, care to hazard a bit of an explanation if possible?

Also sikrit town tell, TBone is town.

Can we unsecret this? Because I'm just not seeing it.

And lastly, re: T-Bone

The site meta on considering a "safe reads list" by itself to be scum is shit, because it's existed for over a year, and so all halfway decent scum have adjusted their play by this point to avoid going with "safe" reads, which in reality, are never safe.

Where you can bring in a "safe reads list" tell and not look bad at the game is where someone arbitrarily assigns reads or entirely sheeps existing reasoning for them (or is newer and doesn't know to avoid that "tell"). But you didn't even bother analyzing motivations or my rationale behind my reads which would have allowed you to actually determine if I were scum, which I tried to make fairly transparent with a (relatively) brief stream of consciousness catch-up. Having said that, you're intelligent enough to recognize everything I just said, and you attacked me without putting in the work to determine where my reads came from anyway. I just can't imagine a reason you would attack me for that without analyzing motivations or the underlying thinking unless you aren't really scumhunting.

Also, you seem so incredibly fake, especially in the early day.

Vote: T-Bone

[Rob14]

I doubt it's T-bone and Banakai, tbh. I'm thinking it's one of {T-bone, Banakai} and then one of {all the people in my no reads section}.

[Rob14]

Which means that I'm kind of thinking myself out of Bulge being scum. I need to go reread him, but I just don't see him being scum with either of my other two suspects.

[Rob14]

T-Bone votes are bad and still have no good justification. Rob's 356 does not have good enough reasons to warrant a L-4 vote, and certainly not any that would merit anyone sheeping the wagon.

I could be convinced though, so if anyone has anything substantive to say about T-Bone with references to particular posts, I am all ears.

This is the ultimate in fence-sitting. Like seriously.

"This wagon and votes are bad, and there are no good reasons to vote this person. Seriously, though, come up with some good reasons so I can sheep it."

[Rob14]

Quilford is town, especially re: his post on kuribo.

P-edit: Cheery, I really want you to be town. Can you do something a tad more obvTown so we can get there, please?

P-P-edit: Link to sweet, sweet meta please. That could significantly change my read on him, or at least my confidence in the read that led to my vote.

[Rob14]

scum can't run their buddy up to an actual lynch in this setup because it would be playing directly against their win condition

So we don't lynch either, and if either flee, we make sure we vote the other. Sounds good to me.

Rob

had to ask you

"do you think it's dumb or scummy or both". That is, he couldn't tell whether you were pointing something out for being dumb or being scummy.

This is a bit of a misrep, albeit not intentional. I asked that question to try to make him reconsider his read or at least the reasons behind it, since I thought his reasons all pointed to dumb, not scum. He was very clearly claiming scum, though. Just bad analysis. This doesn't make kuribo scum; many town fall into this trap, and I actually think it's more likely from town than scum.

contradicting your own reads by making excuses for them (and posting them anyway) is scummy because it attempts to remove one's accountability for their actions

And this explanation solidifies that it comes from town.

T-Bone, you're blatantly wrong in #398. I haven't made "excuse after excuse". I told you your read is shitty because it relies on outdated site meta, which is actually pretty damn good for a defense. When is the last time you caught a SINGLE scum with "reads are to safe" on an experienced player (been around 1+ years) without analyzing motivations behind the reads. Like seriously, link me that game and I'll self-vote. Good luck finding it. It doesn't exist

You're flailing, bro.

Why does everyone think I am scum with T-bone? I still think T-bone is scum and I will in fact join his wagon .

Found T-Bone's partner, guys.

Or maybe not, idk. Really liking Banakai scum again.

Vote: Banakai

[Rob14]

Ummm no. You have made excuses, so let's not pretend you haven't. Citing site-meta as a defense to your reads is not a defense. Site-meta has nothing to do with this game. It especially has nothing to do with this game because of the way the set-up is. Your motivations behind the reads were to not make any waves, and to push through the most likely lynch candidates. Your lack of perception astounds me. Since you're an experienced player with 1+ years, you should have enough awareness to know what your reads look like to other players. It's just so convenient for you to come into the thread and scumread the players getting the most heat. No it's not our fault that you are choosing to call the players scum that everyone else is without your own original progression to those reads. No it's not site-meta's fault that your reads look safe. That's all on you.

Uh, no. It's actually not on me. Those are me reads, and they are what they are. I'm not going to fake my reads to avoid a shitty tell that people need to stop using. Sorry I didn't post earlier before other people read them that way, I guess?

I'm not saying site meta is responsible for my reads. I'm saying site meta is responsible for your shitty fake scumhunting.

farside, please explain your town read of Aegor since you're chainsaw defending him.

I didn't see what was wrong with aegor's reasons for voting banak.
That is not chainsaw defending. It's asking what the fuck was wrong with what aegor said.

Seriously learn what chainsaw defending means.

I don't like that last sentence. Doesn't sound very genuine to me.

Aegor is probably town now. Quilford's dislike is more playstyle than alignment, I think, although Quilford moves towards strong town for that line of attack - I don't see it coming from scum.

Oh, wait wait wait. Aegor's defense in #451 is basically "Well, the game is still in RVS practically, so everything I've done doesn't matter", which is prettttty bad. Nevermind on that town thing, knocked back down to null.

[Rob14]

No, I explained why your reasons for thinking Banakai's posts were scummy were wrong. e.g.

Banakai's post contained no nervousness

In your judgment. In mine,

it did.

You are more than welcome to ISO me for the word "nervous," or even the stem "nerv." You will not find anything; you were and are putting words in my mouth.

So which is it? Did you think he was nervous or not? Because you seem to defend your idea that he's nervous, then go back and say "Oh wait, I never said that", which suggests you didn't even remember what your case on T-Bone was.

Re: T-Bone

Why would I defend my reads when you haven't attacked them? You never attacked my reads themselves or the rationale behind them. You attacked the timing of my reads. The ONLY reason you considered them scummy, as far as I can tell, was because they came after others provided similar reads. That is strictly a "Rob was asleep when this game got going" tell. There's nothing to defend, so I didn't bother. Now, if you want to attack my reads themselves, be my guest and I'd be happy to defend my logic or rationale. But you haven't done that. Why defend what isn't under attack?

What you've seen so far and will continue to see as long as you push your current awful case is my assertion that "timing tells" are bad if you don't analyze rationale behind the reads, which you've so far failed to do at all.

[Rob14]

When he hasn't had a case on T-Bone, is that actually surprising?

I meant Banakai.

Re: DGB - The push on lurkers is bad and will continue to be bad. Town and scum both lurk, and it's not really alignment indicative, especially in the middle of a Marathon weekend. If they continue lurking after the weekend's over, sure, string them up, but why not comment on people who are actually here and can be pressured?

[Rob14]

And what's your evidence of that, other than the fact that my reads were similar to players who gave reads before me? What in the rationale I provided led you to believe that it came from a scum motivation, including everything that has now come after it that you can now incorporate in your read? Because if the only evidence you have for your read is "BUT THEY WERE SOOOO SIMILAR", then yes, it is a timing read, and yes, it's bad.

Re: DGB - It's not scumhunting to poke at lurkers to the exclusion of all else, which is what you appear to be doing for the most part. Since you voted a lurker, you've responded to people who asked you direct questions and pushed more ... on people who aren't even here.

@Mod - Prods on kanye and Bulge (in an hour) please.

[Rob14]

I've provided updates several times, T-Bone, once with a new list and several times by saying X is town, etc. I'll get to it soonish when I feel my reads have changed enough to warrant compiling a new list, but it's all in my ISO.

[Rob14]

@Mod - Prods on kanye and Bulge (in an hour) please.

kanye has been prodded.

I'm dumb, sorry.

[Rob14]

In your ISO, I see no convincing evidence of scumhunting. All I see is you hiding behind the number of posts people have made as if that's indicative of alignment.

I completely agree that if they're not posting anything, that's an issue. But is that an issue within 13 hours of game start, when you first cast a vote based exclusively on lurking? No, clearly not. And the fact that you haven't swapped to actual scumhunting after several days makes me increasingly uneasy. You're hiding behind the numbers you've posted a few times and comparing them to a random standard (number of mod posts) as if that indicated alignment.

Vote: DGB

[Rob14]

You know what T-Bone, if you want to use a wiki tell without any additional thought inputted into that process, be my guest. I'm actually starting to think you're not scum, just dense.

[Rob14]

You don't think "safe reads" rises to the level of a wiki tell by this point? It absolutely does.

[Rob14]

Strong Town:
kanyeknowsbest
kuribo
Metal Sonic

Lean Town:
farside22
INAUFTA (Cheery Dog)
hiplop
Quilford
Untrod Tripod

Nullish:
Aegor
Marquis
Prof Fridays
The Bulge
T-Bone

50 Shades of Scum:
Banakai
DrippingGoofball

[Rob14]

T-Bone's in nullish for now, but later on when I have more time, I need to reread him. Especially his start of day.

[Rob14]

I've had a conflicting read on Aegor, well documented in my posts. Marquis hasn't done anything to be considered scummy or town yet.

There's also, y'know, all the other reads. Having a read on 2/3 of the players after 3 days is as good as it's going to get.

[Rob14]

What happen to aegor scum there ?

Aegor is looking awful scummy but Marquis is starting to look worse in fact

VOTE: Marquis

What has Marquis done between your last post and this post, during which time he did not post, to appear more scummy?

[Rob14]

I've had a conflicting read on Aegor

Conflicting, yet he's "nullish???"

Yup, that's typically what a conflicting read means. Some reason to think he's town. Some reason to think he's scum. They weigh about evenly, and it returns him to nullish. I'm awaiting additional posting to decide which way it falls.

[Rob14]

Rob: can you explain the cherry dog town read?

I can't explain it that well, to be honest, but I'll give it a shot. It's mostly vague gut. I like the way he's talking, mostly, but I also do see some evidence of scumhunting.

Normally I'd be up in arms over the meta thing and considering a Cheery/T-Bone team, but Scum!Cheery has no reason to defend his partner at that point on the wagon given the way this setup is designed, nor does he have any reason to defend a Town!T-Bone when most of the town is scum-reading him, or at least focusing on him as someone worth looking at. I just don't see the scum motivation given the setup.

[Rob14]

re:Kuribo on farside:

I don't see how that's relevant, hough. Yes, Cheery is a walking contradiction, but is there scum motivation there? See above. ^

[Rob14]

Is this a good time for me to let you know that I was actually referring to #528 and what you quoted Farside saying, Kuirbo?

[Rob14]

k u r i b o

Am I doing it right?

[Rob14]

Kuribo, please don't eject. You were doing so well.

[Rob14]

Have you considered replacing yourself with your non-rage alt? It might help.

[Rob14]

Yeah, go away for a day. You've had a bad day, don't let it ruin your game.

[Rob14]

Please spell today correctly.

[Rob14]

Please spell today correctly.

This was after kuribo already said he was going to take a break, and a while after I had left the thread as well. There's no point to this post except for trying to provoke kuribo further. The difference though is that it doesn't involve him- kuribo was raging at me, not Rob. This post is just Rob trying to take advantage of kuribo raging at me and fanning the flames- Rob is scum trying to keep the arguments and rage going from the sidelines.

VOTE: Rob

Nope, it was me actively trying to fan the flames from right in the center of it. Probably not my finest moment, but I was feeling a bit troll-y. Feel kind of guilty about it now.

[Rob14]

If you want to lynch me for being a jerk, go ahead, but do me a favor and don't pretend it's because it's scummy. It's because you're policy lynching me in a game where you only have one lynch.

[Rob14]

Annoyance is how I will respond as either alignment when you're about to policy lynch me in a game with only one lynch. It's incredibly anti-town of you, and you're going to utterly destroy my chance of winning, since Banakai is going to flee and I have no idea who he could be partners with. Not T-Bone or bulge for sure.

[Rob14]

I wouldn't know who to accuse if, as I suspect, Banakai flees. He's obviously scum; I don't know why we'd lynch anyone other than him today. What I don't know is who his partner is, since my other scum suspects all are unlikely partners for Banakai at this point.

You're lynching me because I fueled the flames on kuribo's rage-out. aka I was being a bit of a douche, which is a fair assessment of the situation to be honest. Not my finest hour, and Bulge made me feel guilty about it. If you're lynching me based off of provoking kuribo, then that's a policy lynch. If you have a non-policy reason why me trolling kuribo makes me scum, I'd love to hear it, but I don't think one exists.

Vote: Banakai

, by the way - I was holding my vote before in hopes of getting more out of Marquis and co before the day ended, but I think I have enough at this point. He's probably town, since I don't think scum would take this strategy of starting a wagon on me.

[Rob14]

Nah I voted you for fun

Your responses just now however makes you scum

^ A summary of literally all the responses to me posting anything ever in defense as town. I might as well stop doing it.

[Rob14]

Marquis post wasn't a joke, and I don't buy that yours was either.

I get defensive when people attack me for no reason. I do this as both alignments. Look at my meta if you don't believe me, specifically the plenty of times I've been run up and lynched due to a defensive response as town. It happens over and over and over again, and it's really annoying. I don't get the mentality of "If you defend yourself aggressively, you're scum!" Why on earth wouldn't I defend myself as town?

[Rob14]

Hmm. A table should work. I'm too lazy to get data, but if someone compiles a list of everyone's town reads/votes, I'll do the chart.

[Rob14]

Does anyone have meta on Prof Fridays? In particular, is the amount of levity in his "flavor" normal for him as either alignment?

[Rob14]

agreed, the DGB wagon smells bad

But not so sure on whether Aegor is the one who's scummy on it. Marquis is more likely, imo. Let me take another look.

And for those decrying meta, you're limiting your available knowledge, which is pretty bad play.

[Rob14]

So you're claiming to have scum motivation, then, Aegor?

VOTE: Aegor

Cool.

[Rob14]

Hmm, just noticed something. As soon as Bulge didn't have pressure on him, he disappeared into the ether. He's not posted in over two days, but has been active elsewhere on site. That's making me bump him back down to scum, although I want to keep pursuing this Aegor thing first.

[Rob14]

aegor, i think this is very similar to your SK play in xenosaga. I think you are scum.

This is probably the most relevant tell that anyone has applied so far, since the scum will likely act like SKs in this game because they need to be fairly independent/avoid relational tells. Can you elaborate on this?

[Rob14]

aegor, i think this is very similar to your SK play in xenosaga. I think you are scum.

This is probably the most relevant tell that anyone has applied so far, since the scum will likely act like SKs in this game because they need to be fairly independent/avoid relational tells. Can you elaborate on this?

scum defense

So you're saying that me saying that your point against Aegor, making him scum, being the best tell used in the game so far, is me defending my scum-partner while he's at L-2? What? I mean ... what? I'm saying your case is good, and I'd still like you to elaborate on it, since I don't know the meta.

[Rob14]

3) "if you dont have a case on my partner then dont accuse him!"

I'm not telling you not to pressure him though. I'm literally voting him and encouraging you and others to pressure him. This makes exactly no sense.

[Rob14]

I have mixed feelings on Fridays. I don't like recent posts but I really strongly don't think scum would do that "flavor" thing that he did. So again, as I asked in the past, does anyone have meta on him? Is he normally that laid-back as town or scum (or both)?

[Rob14]

@Mod - I'd like a mod ruling on this. If someone self-hammers as town, is that playing against win condition?

Keep in mind that in that scenario, he'd still be taking away a chance to lynch scum, which is actively playing against wincon in my opinion.

And the flavor itself is meaningless, but the way it's delivered means something. It doesn't feel natural to me, although it lacks a "nervous" quantity, which farside said was characteristic of upbeat!Friday in his scum game. How would you say his current posting compares to the scum game in terms of town, farside?

[Rob14]

i actually think Rob might be scum, asking the mod about the win con reminds me of me bitching to the mod about people trying to circle-accuse

It bothered me mostly because it doesn't take much to read the rules and why would self voting be against the win condition if you can still win after being lynched.

You can still win, but it decreases your chances of winning by roughly 2/16 (actually more, if you consider that you now have one extra non-you person who you can accuse). That's a significant portion of your chance of winning the game.

[Rob14]

huh.

conspiracy theory: dgb just ignored hiplop scumpartner OR dgb didn't think to add hiplop because she knew hiplop was about to post and didn't want him to look like he was beetlejuicing OR dgb saw hiplop posting in their scum qt and assumed he already had posted in the thread

More likely theory: She looked at the ISO and didn't consider the possibility that no one had posted.

[Rob14]

yo robby i gotta get you 2 explain your kuribo, hiplo, ut and cherrydog town reads for me PLEASE. ty when you get around to it bud

Kuribo - obvious attempts to scumhunt, basically; I consider him one of the most solid town reads in the game, and I'm confused how you don't see that as being obvious

Hiplop - I'm actually liking him less recently - I would bump him back down to null. He's made some shitty posts and seemed fairly opportunistic, with reads bouncing all over the damn place

UT - This is very much gut and based on how he's talking.

Cheery - I liked his defense on T-Bone, mostly.

[Rob14]

Rob you have to admit you're just omgusing me this is kind of sad to read

Quilford's post have been loldongs

... I have you as a town read?

Quilford's been good.

[Rob14]

I see youre making no attempts to not look like a bad kuribo knockoff :/

FUCKING LOL

[Rob14]

Aegor is scum. No real town wants to lynch themselves over a scum read, which would give them double the chances of hitting scum (one lynch and one accuse vs just one accuse)

[Rob14]

I mean the fact you guys buy that is pretty bad

[Rob14]

Aegor, explain why you would want to self-hammer yourself as town. How does it help you achieve your wincon?

[Rob14]

Vote: Banakai

Hypothesis: Banakai/Bulge team

[Rob14]

Actually hold on a sec.

Unvote

Kanye made me think of something. Would Aegor-town that wants to be lynched declare his intention to self-hammer or just act intentionally scummy to get there? I'm leaning heavily towards the second.

[Rob14]

There's no reason to give a warning about that to town if you want to be lynched. He'd be better off letting it happen. Yeah, nevermind, my hypothesis two posts up is crap.

Vote: Aegor

[Rob14]

Would scum really tempt the rest of the playerlist to lynch them in an effort to prove they aren't scum?

Absolutely yes, if they thought they'd be lynched otherwise.

[Rob14]

Only if you're the only one to accuse them.

[Rob14]

Getting a hard to read player to flee would be great, actually.

[Rob14]

VOTE: Aegor

If he thinks voting early is helpful, then this vote would have come muchhhh earlier. Lynch with prejudice, thanks.

[Rob14]

scum had a six and a half hour window during a pretty prime time to get that hammer if aegor was town and they did not have the person they wanted to flee on the wagon. gonna reexamine the unvotes but i find the 2nd scenario unlikely

Because Aegor is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Rob14]

Can we lynch Aegor before he flees? Pretty please? Seriously. Look at his ISO. He's been incredibly inconsistent with the idea of a townie wanting to be lynched. Incredibly, incredibly inconsistent. I haven't been putting forth any effort to prove this because it should be incredibly obvious to everyone, but here goes:

1) A townie who wants to be lynched would not declare this intent. Declaring this intent only serves to make people second-guess themselves. Instead, he could have just been quiet and hammered himself when he got there or intentionally acted scummy to draw a lynch.

2) As soon as a viable second target came along (me) and he wasn't under a huge amount of pressure, he abandoned voting himself and went to me. This is DESPITE the fact that five people are voting him currently, meaning he's likely to have his accusation fail if he's a townie. His motivation to be lynched as a townie (i.e. prevent himself from losing his accusation by being accused) is still present. His motivation to claim to want to be lynched as a townie if he's scum has gone away, because pressure is off of him enough that he can survive the day and then flee.

3) He didn't want to vote himself early and just wanted to hammer, and when people called him out on that logic, he defended his choices. Then, he voted himself. Why? If he actually believed that he should be his own hammer, that's cool, and I respect that, but why would he then pander by turning around and doing what people said he should have done? Makes no sense.

Aegor is srs scum. It's so incredibly obvious that it's painful. People are asking who his partner is - it doesn't fucking matter. If we lynch him today, then one scum's dead and we've won. End of story, no need to care about his partner. He is individually the most scummy person in the game right now, and the fact that you people are falling for his insane gambit is mind blowing to me.

[Rob14]

an easy solution: we lynch aegor, threaten that if he is town, we all blacklist him

I actually considered this, but it genuinely in is his best interest as town to be lynched if he believes he will be accused by 5+ people and have his accusation invalidated, so I decided against it. Then he became obvious as to lying, so it became irrelevant.

[Rob14]

Rob: same question I ask t-bone.
If you believe aegor is scum who is scum with him? And why?

It doesn't fucking matter because if we don't let him flee today, we win.

Short answer - no clue, I haven't seen relational tells. This isn't surprising because scum would be VERY interested in avoiding them.

[Rob14]

^ Actually, maybe you. You're smart enough to understand the above, so your repeated asking is just fishing for whether people will accuse you if Aegor flees.

[Rob14]

Why would I vote you on a maybe instead of vote your partner on a near certainty. Uh ... duh?

[Rob14]

I asked for a reason. You believe scum is willing to self vote which is against there win con. Why?

Self voting isn't against their wincon if it prevents them from being lynched. Which is exactly what you're pushing to have happen.

[Rob14]

You realize rob many people find you scummy. If aegor's town many would accuse you and if you were town you'd more likely lose the game?

That's how certain I am about Aegor. HE IS SCUM. Lynch him and I don't have to worry about that.

Why would I vote you on a maybe instead of vote your partner on a near certainty. Uh ... duh?

This sentence makes no sense.

agreed, if you're certain that they're partners, it shouldn't matter

Quote me where I said I was certain they were partners. It's a maybe at best, and the only scum tell I have on farside constitues "If Aegor is scum, farside may be scum due to relations." It's clearly a better idea to lynch the person who is independently scummy than the person who is only somewhat scummy by relations. I'm 99.9% sure about Aegor. I'm maybe like 60% sure about farside being scum. How does that not make sense, that I would want to vote someone I find very scummy (certain about his alignment) over someone who is moderately scummy?

---

DGB, you want to team up to be an unstoppable force of scumbusting power? Why don't you vote Aegor now, and then I'll accuse farside with you if we're wrong?

[Rob14]

DGB, you want to team up to be an unstoppable force of scumbusting power? Why don't you vote Aegor now, and then I'll accuse farside with you if we're wrong?

this may be the scummiest thing you've typed all game

IDGAF, as long as Aegor winds up being the lynch. He's scum.

[Rob14]

Quote me where I said I was certain they were partners. It's a maybe at best, and

the only scum tell I have on farside constitues "If Aegor is scum, farside may be scum due to relations."

It's clearly a better idea to lynch the person who is independently scummy than the person who is only somewhat scummy by relations. I'm 99.9% sure about Aegor. I'm maybe like 60% sure about farside being scum. How does that not make sense, that I would want to vote someone I find very scummy (certain about his alignment) over someone who is moderately scummy?

---

DGB, you want to team up to be an unstoppable force of scumbusting power?

Why don't you vote Aegor now, and then I'll accuse farside with you if we're wrong?

Well, maybe I was lying, but srsly DGB, vote Aegor plz. <3

[Rob14]

can we lynch someone ok? PLEASE I WANT A FLIP

YES WE CAN. AEGOR. I WANT BLOOD.

[Rob14]

Vote: Banakai

Saw something I didn't like, want to see what happens.

[Rob14]

I don't buy that trolling is a scumtell, unless you're suggesting that it's a scumtell specific to this game's setup, in which case I'd want more of an explanation. I troll regularly as both alignments, although not systematically. I could point you to several other players that do as well. Maruchan, for instance.

[Rob14]

I'm not? It's a shitty tell, and it's a shitty tell no matter who you apply it to, although I don't really get the hiplop wagon in general. Someone want to spell it out for me?

[Rob14]

Vote: Banakai

Saw something I didn't like, want to see what happens.

What happened? What did you dislike?

If I wanted to tell you that, I already would have. Give it time.

[Rob14]

I don't give a fuck why people vote you as long as you get lynched. If I can mislead townies into voting you, I'm all for it - it will still result in everyone's win, because you're transparently scum. Except for you and your partner, anyway.

[Rob14]

There is a point in avoiding stating town reads if you feel your opinion might make your town read more likely to be NK. In this game, this is NOT an issue and you should be sharing your town reads unless you are scum trying to keep your options open.

The setup is open and includes only two alignments, though. What is even the point of listing strong townreads when they are inconsequential to the setup anyway? Also, again, some players just tend not to list townreads.

So basically to sum this up, let's make sure scum have an excuse to avoid associating themselves with the other players. Yeah in this game probably more than other, spelling out your reads is very important. Forcing scum to spell out their reads because everyone is doing it is optimal. So you are wrong, they are not inconsequential, and I would like all your reads please.

*facedesk*

MAYBE HE DOESN'T WANT TO SAY HIS READS BECAUSE HE'S SCUM

...

[Rob14]

I kind of want to vote you for not continuing to post it, tbh.

Re: TBone - I'll get to an updated reads list soon, but honestly, not much has changed since my last one. Aeger = scum now. That's pretty much the only change, I think. It's also the only read that really matters to me at this point.

[Rob14]

I'm not? It's a shitty tell, and it's a shitty tell no matter who you apply it to, although I don't really get the hiplop wagon in general. Someone want to spell it out for me?

Well I think the theory you've erected on aegor is a shitty tell. It is null.

It's null to act completely inconsistently with the goals you claim you have? M'kay.

[Rob14]

Seriously all that noise about aegor and this post moves you to the next biggest lynch away from you?

I'll talk more about this eventually. Maybe. But right now, I think I saw something, and I want to see if I see it again.

[Rob14]

I'm not? It's a shitty tell, and it's a shitty tell no matter who you apply it to, although I don't really get the hiplop wagon in general. Someone want to spell it out for me?

Well I think the theory you've erected on aegor is a shitty tell. It is null.

It's null to act completely inconsistently with the goals you claim you have? M'kay.

He voted himself. People bitched. He voted earlier.
People stopped voting him.
You think sitting on the vote for himself makes any sense?

You think that the way he acted makes sense for someone who wants to get lynched?

Show me a jester that got lynched by saying "Yo guys, I'm a jester" and I'll vote whomever you want me to.

[Rob14]

I don't need to give you reasons at all, Aegor, excellent or otherwise.

I'm doing something to sort through my scum reads that are not you, since I suspect I will be unable to rally enough people to lynch you, and I suspect you will then flee because you KNOW I'm going to accuse you otherwise, along with several other people, probably. Right now, I need to find your partner, and IDGAF if that makes it hard or easy for people to discern my alignment.

As soon as I've gained all information that I consider useful from what I'm doing, then maybe I'll humor you.

[Rob14]

Reasons you think hiplop is scum, Fridays?

[Rob14]

christ this fucking game

[Rob14]

You are either stupid or scum.
Look at the first quote, look at what you said and tell me how you see scum motivation from aegor?

You want him to claim scum to be lynched? Seriously? How the fuck does that help the town?
Oh wait your talking individual? You know banal just self voted? Is that a scum claim?

I'm saying that town who wants to be lynched would not claim they want to be lynched in order to be lynched. It's not effective. If you truly want to be lynched, the way to go about it is NOT to convince people you actually want to be lynched - something he put a lot of effort into doing. It's to act scummy so people lynch you.

On the other hand, if he's scum, convincing people he's apathetic about his lynch, or even better actually WANTS it, is a perfect way to make people think he's town - at least enough people that he can flee.

And yeah, bana self-voted. GUESS WHO I'M CURRENTLY VOTING YOU SCRUB

It's not quite a scum claim from him, since he hasn't pushed for his own lynch and it was done in a joking manner, but it deserves further investigation which is what I'm kind of doing here.

[Rob14]

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

NOPE

unvote vote The Bulge

Reasons, now. In your own words.

[Rob14]

Ugh ... ugh

I really don't want to stop the Aegor tunnel, since I simply don't understand how someone who did what he did could be town, but yeah, that post was really not town from Hiplop. And I'm just not going to get the support I want...


ugh

VOTE: Hiplop

[Rob14]

Ugh ... ugh

I really don't want to stop the Aegor tunnel, since I simply don't understand how someone who did what he did could be town, but yeah, that post was really not town from Hiplop. And I'm just not going to get the support I want...


ugh

VOTE: Hiplop

Do you want the list of those that did not hammer aegor just in case I'm wrong?
Yes I'm aware scum could be on that wagon but with l1 that's again pretty freeking ballsy.

I'm going to actually assume you're right, since it's more helpful for clearing people as town. If Aegor is town, it clears 5 people as scum who could have hammered and fled for a lol - which is helpful for focusing in on this lynch. I'm lazy - mind getting those 5 names? Specifically, is hiplop among them?

[Rob14]

Lol

Is this a scum claim? If so, fucking fucking fuck.

[Rob14]

Wait T-Bone is fleeing? I skimmed, is he seriously?

[Rob14]

taking the mafias out of mafiascum since 2007?

UT, please give a skittle ruling on this, and please make that ruling be an "OH GOD YES" (after the game is over, of course).

[Rob14]

I'm tempted to dance him into L-1 to see what would happen. But if there is scum off the wagon they could just quick hammer too. If Aegor was serious about getting himself lynched he would have already brought himself to L-1 and let that possibly happen. So I don't know, this is a weird play. Would scum really tempt the rest of the playerlist to lynch them in an effort to prove they aren't scum?

Thoughts on this post, please. I'm liking Aegor still.

[Rob14]

Can I accuse the mod of making this game too damn hard?

[Rob14]

The bribe does not really change win probabilities in a meaningful way - unless people try to circle-accuse to break the game and force a scum loss (at their own detriment). That's the only thing it's there for.

[Rob14]

Aegor, why did you ask that question, actually?

[Rob14]

Yes, but you can't influence how many people are accusing you - how does it help you?

[Rob14]

I'm disappointed in all of you. This thread isn't even close to 100 pages.

[Rob14]

There's no point in discussion at this point. Revealing your choice of accusation could result in a bribe, and there's no motivation for me to convince anyone else of my choice of accusation because who you all accuse doesn't affect my wincon, assuming I don't get accused by a ton of you - and that's something I can't really change at this point, if you've already decided I'm scum. So meh. I reread some select ISOs, had some revelations, and my accuse is in.

[Rob14]

There's no point in discussion at this point. Revealing your choice of accusation could result in a bribe, and there's no motivation for me to convince anyone else of my choice of accusation because who you all accuse doesn't affect my wincon, assuming I don't get accused by a ton of you - and that's something I can't really change at this point, if you've already decided I'm scum. So meh. I reread some select ISOs, had some revelations, and my accuse is in.

Is T-Bone like to heavy distance like that from you? (more a question to others, I haven't seen his scum play until this game)

I'm assuming you asked if T-Bone likes to distance, but that sentence is pretty mangled.

The answer is idk. I haven't played with him before, unless I forgot the game.

[Rob14]

I get the impression people are holding there cards close to scum reads.
I ended up voting one of my maybe out there reads.
Unless I see better I'm probably going to stick with it.

Basically this from me too.

[Rob14]

I wanted to make an epic prod dodge, so I typed "Epic" into google to get images. This was on the first line of results.

[Rob14]

farside22 accuses kanyeknowsbest and LOSES

I'ma let you finish, but that was the WORST ACCUSATION OF ALLLLLL TIME