Battlestar Galactica Mafia - Game over!

[Nikanor]

Vote: NotAnAxeHole.

Don't trust a word this guy says, he's a cunning bastard.

[Nikanor]

Vote: NotAnAxeHole.

Don't trust a word this guy says, he's a cunning bastard.

OMGUS

You're so mean

Fine, you're an idiot then.

[Nikanor]

I accept your first remark... But there is no spill beer emoticon... I don't think it's going to work out.

You'll just have to settle for spilling the beans then. Are you scum?

[Nikanor]

I live in the aouth

also I still have no clue what this is.

I looked it up, all I could find was this picture of a very friendly Aouth American bird.
http://www.tripadvisor.ca/LocationPhoto ... egion.html

[Nikanor]

He must, there can be no other explanation.

[Nikanor]

Vote: Tammy.

You fooled me in the last BSG mafia game we were in together, it's not happening a second time.

This is me!

Vote: Tammy.

I think that we should be voting for our scum reads and scanning our null-scum reads. That's why I haven't placed a scanner yet.
It'd be great if we didn't descend into a mafia theory argument over ideal cop play so please try to avoid that.

[Nikanor]

Why would you claim non-sleeper? I assume that means you're not a cylon or symp in the flavour, but why are you so eager to reveal that?

[Nikanor]

Why would you claim non-sleeper? I assume that means you're not a cylon or symp in the flavour, but why are you so eager to reveal that?

Because I'm not a sleeper and I wanted to be?

Why? I thought you hated playing scum.
And anyway, it'd be awful to play half the game thinking you're town and then have to switch teams later. I can't imagine why anyone would actually

want

to be the sleeper.

[Nikanor]

Also, it says that the sleeper would be aware that they are at the start of the game and they would flip as such.

No, the sleeper was told he has a town win condition at the start. He has no idea he is a sleeper, and has no chance of winning with the town even if he has not been awakened at the time of his death.

[Nikanor]

Unvote.

It makes sense that you'd say that you wished you were the sleeper if you thought the sleeper was told of his sleepiness.

[Nikanor]

I don't think there would be any non-cylon scum. Off the top of my head, the only one who really makes sense as human scum would be Baltar, but even then it's kind of a stretch.

[Nikanor]

Screen: RIP

Why do you want to screen RIP?

[Nikanor]

I'm under the delusion that I can read ABR though so I'd rather not screen him.

[Nikanor]

Hmmmm....

In addition, Dr Baltar has come up with a way to test people to determine if they are human or Cylon. However, the testing process is so laborious that only one person can be examined in one day, so you will need to decide between yourselves who will submit to the doctor's procedure. In addition to the lynch vote, you may use Screen: Player to vote on a player to be tested. As with the lynch, you may not Screen players who are not currently in the thread. If a majority of 9 is reached at any point Today, the Screen subject will be confirmed but, if you achieve a lynch to end the Day before confirming a Screen target, nobody will be tested.

@Mod: When you say they will be revealed as human or Cylon, are you referring to the player's flavour or their win condition?

[Nikanor]

My correct title is Admiral Andrius.

Talk about breadloaves.

@ckd: I'll give you a virtual hug if you tell me why you wanna screen NAA.

[Nikanor]

@ckd: I'll give you a virtual hug if you tell me why you wanna screen NAA.

oh you know, game stuff....at this point in the game, why ask?

can I get the hug anyway?

Well when someone shouts in capital letters THIS NOW it usually signifies that they have a decent reason.
I'm sorry, the hug was only payable if you answered the question. You'll have to answer if you want the hug! Just so you know, I've been told that I give THE BEST hugs ever.

[Nikanor]

Screening is essentially a second lynch, no? I'm wondering, if we scanned the sleeper before he "wakes up", would he show as human or cylon?

Based on our mod's answer, I'd say the scanner is either rigged (in the show, he lied and said that Boomer wasn't a cylon when she was actually one of the cylon sleeper agents referred to by the mechanics in this game), or more likely it will reveal cylon on every cylon character regardless of their wincon.

If your character is a cylon, reveal yourself now or forever hold your peace.

[Nikanor]

well given that we dont have much info to go on, you should rely on a good solid "trust me".

or I am scum, trying to direct a screening really early in the game just in case. I

have

grown so devious over the years.

at this point I just want the hug because I cant have it. such is life.

I'm not suspecting you, I'm just trying to see whether your reason for suspecting the guy is legitimate. I haven't seen anything that's pinged my scumdar since Tammy so I'm looking for anything.

[Nikanor]

to be clear, I am not suspecting.

if we screen him and he flips scum or town, the answer (from me) will be the same...."shrug". My question to you good sir is WHY NOT screen him?

I know him irl so it's a suboptimal scan for me. If I had to make a decision now I'd rather scan VanillaRice or someone else I don't know.

[Nikanor]

Yes.

[Nikanor]

Flavor suggests that Baltar is town due to the screening.

Have you seen the show? Baltar was the one who deliberately gave the cylons access to humanity's nukes. There's a reason he seems nervous in the flavour here.

The game only has one bastard mechanic in the sleeper though, so why would the mod go through all the effort of making a Screen vote mechanic that is designed to fuck over town's thought process?

It's not bastard if it's an accurate reading of the player's flavour. The mods have intentionally not confirmed whether or not the screening is alignment-indicative so we'd be fools to treat it as such. That's why I've asked for any town cylons to reveal themselves, so we don't get a false positive.

[Nikanor]

Have you seen the show? Baltar was the one who deliberately gave the cylons access to humanity's nukes. There's a reason he seems nervous in the flavour here.

And yeah, I've seen the show. I could see Baltar as an independent survivor, but we are still talking about a mafia game when push comes to shove, so certain concessions would need to be had, despite character ambiguity in the show, we can't just assume that all characters with shadowy pasts are possible mafiosi.

It's a bit of an understatement to call "nuked humanity" a shadowy past.
I do agree that we should trust the scanner result for now. I just wouldn't bet the game on it.

[Nikanor]

So, I'm going to come clean. I'm Ellen Tigh, a cylon in the show. I didn't claim earlier because I thought that I might have been the sleeper, and if I was the only one who claimed a character who was a cylon in the show then I'd be lynched instantly with egg all over my face.
I think that BROseidon is town, the discussion about him being scum is ridiculous because all he's claiming is that his character is a cylon in the show. Nowhere in my own role PM does it mention me being a cylon, but I know I am a cylon because I watched the show. I assume BRO's PM is similar so I trust him.

Right now I think that BROseidon and Brian Skies are town for sure. I have a slight town read on Andrius, but that could change. I have scum reads on Bookitty (her focus on Nero Cain was suspicious, she looked to be turning things around on him by talking about him looking for reasons to call people rolefishers) and curiouskarmadog (accusing Axehole of trying to get out of a screen is ridiculous when that's clearly not what's happening).

Unvote. Vote: curiouskarmadog.

Screen: Bookitty.

@Nero Cain: Is your voting penalty public or no?

[Nikanor]

Because we're Saul and Ellen Tigh. We're cylons in the show, but my win condition in this game is Human. I believe BROseidon because we're in the exact same boat, cylon characters with Human win conditions.

[Nikanor]

SCREEN COUNT

NotAnAxehole (6)

- curiouskarmadog, Bookitty, Toogeloo, Andrius, BROseidon, Nero Cain

RIP (3)

- SnowStorm, NotAnAxehole

Andrius (1)

- Tammy, ooba

Bookitty (1)

- Nikanor, RIP

BROseidon (1)

- ValiliaRei

Not voting (6)

- Porochaz, Albert B. Rampage, Lady Lambdadelta, Brian Skies[/color]

@Mod: Is this accurate?

No. The numbers are almost all wrong. Sorry! Fixing now.

[Nikanor]

what exactly is he doing here?

Also, might I say something about screening:

Screening can very easily turn into the town dictating the night kill.

If you want to kill me, I prefer it if you try to lynch so that you may experience full responsibility for your failure.

Also, what's with you trying to get me killed? :<

He's saying he should be lynched instead of screened. You're technically correct that he's trying to get out of a screen, but if that's the case then he's trying to jump out of the frying pan so that he can burn in the fire. It doesn't really make sense.

Nikanor

why do you have SUCH a problem with Scanning Notanexehole? (dont give me the blah blah blah, i got a read on him bullshit) clearly I have reasons for this. so back the fuck off...and settle down.

Well I happen to think that you're full of shit. You'd have us believe that your role PM tells you that Axehole is probably scum. I think it's far more likely that you picked the guy with the earliest join date to fake a guilty on, and then after we've used our screen you'll just say "oh well my information was ambiguous but I had to check."
How about you claim the information you have and we can decide from there, mkay?

@Nero Cain: Is your voting penalty public or no?

yes

I'd like to see you prove your voting restriction by the end of the day, then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that'd be better than having to prove it on day six.

I have a ~reason~ for wanting Andy screened

Is this ~reason~ more role PM fuckery or is this just because you think he's

a bad player who will be left until lylo

scummish?

I'm going to wait for BROseidon to return to say more, but I can definitely see where the anti-BRO faction is coming from now. I misread and missed the part where he said he was a cylon in

his

flavour. I don't want to believe that my husband is a toaster, but I think I might have to ponder that possibility sooner rather than later.

[Nikanor]

Right now I have Toogeloo, Nikanor and Andrius as town, pretty much in that order.

I like Bookies jokes.

That's a strange little joke, if intentional.

I wasn't aware that trying to figure out the setup was odd or scummy, I'll be certain to cease such unreasonable actions post-haste.

[Nikanor]

where the fuck did I say I have a role that indicate axe is scum? where? show me. quick trying to fish. I am telling you I have reasons I want to scan him. shit, he has even indicated he knows my reasons....SOOOOOOOOO, scan him.

Well, you have been relying on these mysterious ~reasons~ since your very first post and refuse to elaborate, using phrases such as 'trust me'. In my experience, this behaviour is usually only seen either when someone has role information or when someone is full of shit and doesn't actually have reasons. If you don't actually have role information then I must conclude that you contain more fecal matter than an outhouse on burrito day.

actually...

either scan him or lynch me...

please.

I'm voting you so that should answer my stance on this.

I'd like to see you prove your voting restriction by the end of the day, then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that'd be better than having to prove it on day six.

yes but why do you want me to prove it?

Because why not? I mean, unless your vote summons some eldritch horror then I can't see any reason for why not. I don't really suspect that you're lying but I'd rather be 100% certain than 95% certain.

@curiouskarmadog: What are your reasons for voting ooba? Do you have any other suspects?

@NotAnAxehole: I, like Porochaz, find your lack of reads disturbing. You don't seem to be contributing much; most of your posts are directed at ckd. Who do you think is scum?

[Nikanor]

But then there is this whole "screen me" thing. I don't want to screen you. Stop suggesting it!!! Its clear you want a screening, I get that. It's going to happen, there are people within this game, who won't let a lynch happen without a screen, so I don't get your worry. Unless you have a reason beyond that, you pushing hard on yourself is looking scummy to me.

I'm on the same page as you here, I think. A lot of the reason for why I want Bookitty screened is because of her insistence on being screened. When I was discussing the screen a few pages ago, I was actually terrified that someone would suggest screening me, both because I'd be screwed if I tried to backtrack and claim that my character was a cylon in the show, but also because if anyone is revealed as a cylon by this scan, they're going to be quicklynched. I think that nobody in the town should want to be scanned at this point, because if they are the sleeper then they're screwed (the sleeper cannot win with the town no matter what). Bookitty's insistence on being scanned looks scummy to me because it looks like she's trying to give off the appearance that she knows she's going to scan as human, when in reality, nobody really knows whether that's the case.
tl;dr: I think that Bookitty is trying to emulate a town mindset re:scanning, but is getting it all wrong.

[Nikanor]

Nik, it's the way you are going about the setup spec, and the big problem Im seeing is people are doing spec, when they don't know where to start. It's a fruitless endeavour as we don't really have any clues, and the discussion spinning out of it has been of a poor calibre (see Tooge's cop speculation for an example, and also a good example of why Im voting him)

Honestly, I was 100% just trying to see if there was anyone else with a cylon character so that I could better know my chances of being the sleeper.

[Nikanor]

Anyone who is town and human-aligned (and I even think BRO made a pass at suggesting this) should not mind being screened while they are still human.

I have a town wincon right now, but that could change. This is true of every player who thinks they are town right now. If the screen reveals the Cylon who thinks they are human, something I think is very likely, then revealing that and being lynched is playing to the current town win-con. I'm not going to play to some possible future scum-wincon. If you're terrified of being screened, then you're doing it wrong. If you are town right now, playing to avoid the screening is not playing to your current wincon. Playing to some possible future wincon is pointless.

The thing is, I don't know my current win condition for sure. I play to win, I can forward my town wincon while still covering my own ass. I don't understand why anyone would play differently. It's not pointless to cover all of your bases, and allowing or supporting your own screening is just plain stupid as either alignment.

@Nikanor: Why, if you thought it was possible you were the sleeper agent based on show flavour, would you be so vehement about how show flavour would have nothing to do with being Cylon-scum or the sleeper agent? These two things do not match up. Can you explain?Why, if you thought it was possible you were the sleeper agent based on show flavour, would you be so vehement about how show flavour would have nothing to do with being Cylon-scum or the sleeper agent? These two things do not match up. Can you explain?

I just said that my intention was to get another show-cylon to claim, me saying that was furthering that goal.

[Nikanor]

So by your logic, Nikanor, no one should REALLY be playing toward a town wincon until they know for sure they're not the sleeper agent? Because that's the logical conclusion for your arguments and your actions.

No, I'm saying that I and everyone else with a human PM should be playing toward a town win condition, but that they should also try to cover their own asses just in case. You're wrong when you say that everyone with a human PM should be happy to see themselves lynched if they are actually the sleeper. I think what you don't realize is that the sleeper always has a scum win condition, he just doesn't know it at first. If you're a human, trying to get yourself screened can end two ways, either a) you come up town and wipe your forehead and leave us to lynch blindly because we didn't get a much more desirable scum result, or b) you come up scum and you're lynched and your scum win condition is worse off for it. Either way, human or cylon, your win condition is worse off for being scanned.

[Nikanor]

So would you prefer we not screen anyone today?

By your expressed logic, screening someone who is outright scum would also be harmful to the as-yet-unknown hidden scum wincon any of us might possibly have. If we are going to play the CYA game, then when are we actually going to play full-out as town? I doubt we're going to be told when the sleeper agent is informed of their actual wincon, so when is it going to be okay to play for the town alone?

Never?

Why are you forcing these conclusions, I've never said any of this. My views are pretty clearly expressed. Let's not make this about scanning other people when what we're really arguing about is your motivation for supporting your own scan. If you really must know, I think the fact that my two votes are on my two scum reads should be telling enough. It would be foolish to not vote your scum reads when the chance of voting correctly if you're the sleeper agent are like 2%.
Now, do you disagree that having yourself scanned is detrimental to your faction regardless of whether you are a human, a cylon or a sleeper agent?

[Nikanor]

I think also that from my eyes, the result itself, is probably not going to mean a huge amount, how we get there is going to be a lot more interesting (and by extension how we deal with it). I mean I think we have a boatload of information already.

A town result would be nigh useless. A scum result, however, would be fantastic (unless you're the person being scanned, of course). In this way, volunteering to be scanned is clearly playing against your wincon no matter what it is.

Bookitty, you seem to have forgotten that we can use the screen to find actual scum. Trying to find the sleeper with the scanner will be like searching for a misplaced contact lens. I'm going to try to hit scum and if we get the sleeper then we'll call it a happy accident.
I've been very clear that the only way I'm playing differently this game is that I'm going to be slightly more survivalistic than normal. And even then, being lynched or scanned is detrimental to your wincon no matter what it is. So I'm not sure what your problem with me is or why you keep trying to push this idea that I'm the worst thing since unsliced bread, and I'm not sure why you're taking my words and drawing these vastly exaggerated conclusions out of them, but I really doubt that you have a town motivation for doing this.

[Nikanor]

~ I had him at town, now moved to neutral because at first glance, he seems like he's playing a strong town game, but then I thought about it. He asks if any Cylons have a town win condition. I'm not sure if this is a coordinated effort with BROseidon or if it isn't... But regardless of that. If Nikanor read the town role PM, I don't feel like he would have been asking that question. It remains to be seen (like the BRO situation) if it's just a misinterpretation or a slip. I am very confident that I can read Nikanor, so I'm not worried.

I didn't ask *if* there were show-cylons with town role PMs as I already knew from my own role PM that there was at least one. I asked for all show-cylons to claim.
I had missed the part where the mods said that show-cylons could be game-humans and show-humans could be game-cylons. From this, I can only conclude that all game-cylons are scum and all game-humans are town; whether you were a cylon or a human in the show is meaningless for this game, I think. The screening is probably going to be sane and flavour-millers probably aren't a thing. I reserve the right to double back on this if I'm later scanned as a cylon, of course.

@Tammy: Why are you townreading me in this game? I realize that this is a scummy question but I have a reason for asking it.

@Andrius: Why are you self-screening? Also, why do you think that Axe and RIP are scum? Those are probably the two easiest scumreads in the world.

The Brian vs. Axehole exchange looks like town vs. town to me.

[Nikanor]

It gives us clear information about the alignment/flavour question without costing us someone who could potentially be useful to town IF he is town. We don't know that this opportunity will ever be repeated, so I would like to use it in a way that actually gives us information beyond one person's alignment.

If you think I'm wrong, tell me why, please.

It would only answer the alignment/flavour question if he's town. A guilty result would tell us nothing. If you truly think he's scum then this is a bad reason for screening BROseidon. I think you're scum and already know BRO's alignment though so yeah.

[Nikanor]

I see you de-valuing my scumreads. Perhaps they are wrong. That's okay because I'm pursing bigger scumreads. Willing to re-evaluate.

pedit: BROSEIDON CLAIMED CYLON. TOWN WIN NECESSITATES DEAD CYLONS. WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THIS

I'm asking why you think they're scum because you really haven't given any indication at all.
BRO claimed that his character was a cylon in the show. He's claimed Human for this game.

A guilty result from the screening would be great, though, wouldn't it? I mean, we'd have found scum. What's so bad about that, Nikanor?

I have absolutely no idea how you're fooling anyone into thinking you're town but congratulations are in order I guess.

I don't think we can discount the possibility of millers given this. Though, I'm honestly not 100% sure?

My role refers to me exclusively as a human and I was a cylon in the show so I really doubt that I would show up as a miller. Like, obviously I'm not 100% certain either but it'd be kind of crappy for the mods to make me scan guilty without at least telling me that I'm actually a town cylon.
Actually I just read over what is considered bastard and it looks like hidden millers is considered bastard by Large Theme standards. So we're guaranteed to not have those I think.

I thought Nikanor claimed to be a town-cylon?

I think I need to finish reading and stop bouncing to the end of the thread. :/

I claimed to be human in this game and a cylon in the show.

I mean I don't know if your scum game has progressed, but my knowledge of it is that you're not generally this proactive as scum. Though also tbf I've never seen you as scum I don't think, but this is still in fitting with what I've seen of you as town.

Thanks, the reason I asked was because I wanted to make sure your reason wasn't "he's posting so he's town." If you had said that I'd have voted you. You actually have seen me as scum recently (ffery's Poe mafia) and said in the dead thread there that you would have to review your meta read of me.
I was a bit paranoid before but I think you're town now.

Bookitty, you seem to have forgotten that we can use the screen to find actual scum. Trying to find the sleeper with the scanner will be like searching for a misplaced contact lens. I'm going to try to hit scum and if we get the sleeper then we'll call it a happy accident.

It would only answer the alignment/flavour question if he's town. A guilty result would tell us nothing. If you truly think he's scum then this is a bad reason for screening BROseidon. I think you're scum and already know BRO's alignment though so yeah.

Is anyone else reading this and thinking Nikanor is scum? I mean, thinking someone is scum is a bad reason for screening them... unless it's Nikanor doing it, in which case it's apparently a great reason.

I meant in 427 that a guilty would tell us nothing about the alignment/flavour question. Context is important yo. Obviously a guilty result would be great but your reason for voting BROseidon was because you wanted the alignment/flavour question answered, which would mean that you don't care about using the screen to get a guilty (we'd have to lynch BROseidon and screen him at the same time to definitively answer the a/f question).

[Nikanor]

I'm pretty sure it's mod-confirmed that there are no screen-millers.
a) The mod has stated that there is only one sleeper agent, and that this is the only bastard element.
b) There are two claimed flavour-cylons with a Human win condition.
c) Explicitly telling a player they are Human when they are actually a Cylon for screening purposes is a lie that cannot be reasonably anticipated and is therefore bastard.

P-edit: Bookitty, that looks like it was probably a slip on the mod's part. If BRO is town, he was explicitly told he was a Human, so it'd be bastard for the mods to make him scan as non-Human as that is a lie that cannot be reasonably anticipated.

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor: If BRO is an innocent human, I don't want to lynch him today. I prefer to screen him because I believe he as a player can be an asset to town alive. I don't see the discussion of his Cylon-claim dying down anytime soon. Screening him could save his life if he's telling the truth. It has nothing to do with your show-Cylon claim. Conflating the two is at best mistaken. They are NOT the same.

If he is a guilty Cylon, then we found a Cylon, yay for us.

Where's the downside, please?

If anyone believes that his flavour might provide a guilty result, if anyone believes as you do that he's a good screen because screening him will answer the question of whether flavourCylons show up as guilty to a scan, then they're not scanning BRO in the hope for an accurate guilty result. If you believe as you have stated you do that there is a question as to whether he will scan as a Cylon or a Human, you cannot trust a guilty result on the scanner.

[Nikanor]

I think BRO should just clarify his role so that people can stop harping on it...

Flavor - Alignment - Role
Human - Town - VT
Cylon - Town - Miller (I'm not willing to discount this if someone claims, but if no one claims now, I think we should discount it as a possibility)
Human - Cylon - Sleeper (I'm not sure how this works for screening, but I assume like this for now)
Cylon - Cylon - Scum

Scum scan as Cylons and town scan as Humans. Anything else would be bastard.
If BRO is town, he was explicitly told in his win condition that he is a Human. For him to scan as a cylon just because of flavour would be bastard.

[Nikanor]

Cylons with a town win condition does not make sense with that town wincon. That means it doesn't exist. At all. No need for further questions.

CDB and Nexus advertised this as a non bastard game, with one potentially bastard element. (thanks to that fucking awful question on the signup sheet) Now I know them well enough to know, that is going to be true. I'm saying that definitively. They are both good mods. They may have made a mistake in a PM, they aren't gods.

I've been saying this for pages. If your win condition says you are a Human then you cannot be a Cylon, even if it's just in the flavour.

[Nikanor]

ABR - For replacing out due to a perceived tiredness with scum roles.

Toogeloo - Searching for a cop, generally awful replies.

Andy - Ignoring the mods, inconsistent opinions.

Toogeloo is the only decent wagon out of these three. The ABR wagon, for one, is completely ridiculous.

P-edit @Tammy: Yeah I know, that's why I would have been suspicious if you simply called me town for posting, because you know from Poe mafia that your experience with my scum meta is outdated so calling me town for that would make you lazyscum.

[Nikanor]

Cylon as in the scum team mentioned in the wincon and cylon as in players characters are two different things. Are you guys really having trouble with this?

The mods have been clear that being a Cylon in the show is meaningless.

[Nikanor]

I also may be reading in but why is there a need for anyone to flip HUMAN townie. This makes it sound like there are also

CYLON townies

.

Nik, what does your role PM say you'll flip as?

Human.

I swear I don't usually altslip this much. :S

[Nikanor]

The screening process, if I'm understanding his post correctly.

Exactly, how many townies are aware that the Sleeper can be detected by the scan and what is the justification that is given in the role PM to go along with this information?

- I didn't get this memo and it wasn't given when people were discussing the sleeper earlier (I'm too lazy to quote or double check at this point).

I thought it was obvious and assumed the sleeper scanned cylon. He can never win with the town, so.

[Nikanor]

Axehole, if you don't understand Toog's actions then why do you have him as scum? I see you throwing a lot of accusations of inscrutibility at Toogeloo but not a lot of actually scummy things. Why not ask Toog about the stuff you don't understand instead?

[Nikanor]

Voting modifiers are semi-common in theme games. It's usually better to out it early than have to explain a weird voting pattern later on.

[Nikanor]

Can someone explain the sangres hate in a sentence that doesn't include the letters A, B or R?

[Nikanor]

What if the people who can't post today are the scum

pedit ty Nero you're so helpful.

[Nikanor]

Screen: LLD

[Nikanor]

It's my scumday guys worship me pls

[Nikanor]

you're just saying that because i'm defending you

[Nikanor]

Prod-dodge.
Addressing on this page: What Axehole said.

[Nikanor]

8. I don't like Nikanor's postings. I don't actually have time to go through and pull out all the quotes from ISO right now, but I suspect I'll get around to that at some point too. One thing that appears to be a repeated meme, though, is Nik strawmanning things I say:

a. Repeatedly arguing that I was attacking BRO based on show flavour, something that was never true and continues not to be true
b. Telling me why I want BRO screened and then attacking that reason

Those are just off the top of my head. I also notice that Nik has been silent about the people self-voting for their own screen despite the outrage that I said I was willing to be screened.

You're the one who was strawmanning me. Remember when you extrapolated conclusions from my posted logic and then drew further conclusions from THOSE extrapolations, then called me scum for the conclusions you jumped to? Because that's a thing that happened.
I misunderstood the difference between show and role flavour at first, but honestly what's the difference? Flavour means zilch. I don't understand why people are all in a hissy about something that BRO

willingly claimed

. You all think he willingly came forward and volunteered this information that he's getting lynched for and I just don't get it, it makes no sense, I'd call it scum-driven but there are way too many people on the wagon for that.
There's also a reason for why I've been mostly-silent about the self-screeners. You were the first person to do it, and when you did I'll admit I got a bit carried away. But it's another situation where I just don't get why you and all of these other people are playing sub-optimally by self-screening, but there are way too many people doing it for them all to be scum. I think that at least one of the self-screeners might be bluffing, and at first I thought it was LLD so I screenvoted her, but now I doubt that. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but those are my thoughts right now.
Anyway, I think I might have been wrong about you. Maybe we just have different views on how the game should be played. Idk. I'm willing to defer my read on you for now to everyone else who is town-reading you.

[Nikanor]

insert line here with another thinly veiled breadcrumb

Veiled = Bride = Wife = Andrius is Ellen Tigh confirmed

[Nikanor]

I'm thinking we should probably switch things around...

VOTE: Andrius

Screen: Toogeloo

I feel like Toogeloo coming out and claiming all that he did earns him a first night kill if both him and his Neighbor are town, therefore, I think screening either him or his neighbor is the best move for day 1.

Why would we scan them if they're getting killed anyway?

[Nikanor]

Okay going back to page 12…I hope I am not going to read a bunch of fluff.

@curiouskarmadog: What are your reasons for voting ooba? Do you have any other suspects?

gut...scum fear my gut, but this question might be moot now as now I have 22 pages of game to read.

Also, your vote on me is ridiculous, what are my scum actions again? Or do you just need to look busy?

Extreme Guaranteed Can't be Scum Town

Curiouskarmadog

speaking of painting a target.

Nikanor, seeing that the person I want to screen is saying this. why is your vote a.) still on me and b.) you are not questioning him on this? your belief that I am scum rings hallow.

1) You've got exactly one post that isn't shouting SCREEN AXEHOLE ad nauseum. I think you're using him as an excuse to not produce content.
2) I don't much care about Axehole's reasons for thinking you're town. I guarantee you think I will not agree with them.

@Axehole: In that case, why not wait until tomorrow?
I actually think that Toogeloo is town here though. Not really much motivation for him to reveal this info as scum (unless his neighbor goaded him into doing it).

[Nikanor]

For reads... right now I have strong town reads on Porochaz, Tammy, BROseidon, Nero Cain, and Brian Skies, in no particular order. I have mild town reads on Andrius, Axehole, and Toogeloo, probably in that order.

I still think that curiouskarmadog is scum, but I realize that unless he starts posting more that he won't be lynched today.
That leaves sangres, ValiliaRei, ooba, Lady Lambdadelta, and SnowStorm.
-I think that sangres might actually be scum. I don't know if I'm getting brainwashed or what, but when I was catching up a lot of their posts were starting to feel scummy, and reading back through the iso I can't really place my finger on the posts that were unsettling my gut. I'm going to reserve judgement until the promised reads list makes its appearance. I suppose I'll also try to read through their iso again tomorrow.
-Lady Lambdadelta is not being the Cat in a Rage that I know her to be, and I'm not sure whether that's because her playstyle has changed in the last three years since I played with her. I need to research this but I don't really have the time. I really hope she starts producing content soon and stops relying on fluff so that I don't have to bother with the meta.
-ValiliaRei looks like she's having trouble getting into the game. However, her posts do make her seem like she's genuinely interested in getting into the game despite her troubles doing so. It's a shame that she's being mostly ignored by everyone. I think I've just talked myself into a light town read on her.
-SnowStorm might actually be scum. I really disliked this post, and his attack on Andrius in general. Mild scum read. I agreed with most of his stances on BRO though so idk.
-ooba would be a fantastic screening, in my opinion. He has the lowest post count out of anyone and is suspected by a few people if I recall correctly. I can't really get a solid read from his posts since they're so few in number but I dislike his position on BROseidon. His thought process is impenetrable but out of all the people calling BRO scum I think ooba has the best chance of being scum regardless of BRO's alignment.

[Nikanor]

insert line here with another thinly veiled breadcrumb

Veiled = Bride = Wife = Andrius is Ellen Tigh confirmed

I thoight you claimed Ellen tigh. Also,

hansel

Andy is not Ellen tigh.

I'm feeling very conflicted on Andy right now. I don't want him to be scum and wonder what that means for me if he is, but it'd probably be odd modding so idk.

I am Ellen! Andrius is

Adama

somebody else, idk who.

[Nikanor]

Screen: ooba.

I think that this is the best place for the screening today.

[Nikanor]

But you partially agree?
Obviously it's not my first choice. My first choice would be ckd, and I think my second would be SnowStorm.
But I think that ooba is a good compromise screen with a decent chance of turning up scum and not much lost if it turns up town.

[Nikanor]

Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee? So screen him!!

[Nikanor]

BRO, Nikanor, and Bookitty - There are still unanswered questions in my Post #684.

I think the mod made a mistake, BRO has said that the mod only casually refers to him as a cylon in the flavour so I think it was a slip when they were writing the flavour.

Screen: ooba If I won't be the play this is a great play. ooba is intelligent and calculating once he gets going.

It is?

If memory serves, and this game is not proving it wrong, ooba will post minimally throughout, which means he isn't great for the screen.

Also I assumed you were Adama.

That means he's perfect for the screen. I don't want to have to worry about reading someone with 11 posts on day three or with 20 posts in lylo.
We're not screening someone strong so that they can be a town leader, that's idiotic. They'd be a good night kill regardless of the screen so they'll just die n1.

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor: Is there a special reason why you have left me out of your reads list entirely in Post 854?

It was technically an accident but I'm deferring my read of you anyway.

NotAnAxehole - town, feels genuine: in particular, the part about being the one who pissed off ABR. I think that scum in his position keeps that in their pocket and never lets it out.

To be fair, Albert, Axehole, Mantis and I are all real-life friends so there's no way he could have gotten away with that as scum.

just skimmed last page....ooba screened (blah) clearly people think I am just making shit up, scum, or pushing this due to meta reasons. whatever, I will drop it, but just remember if shit goes bad....I tried. If we are not going to screen who I think we needed to, ooba is not a bad choice.

You had plenty of chances to push it more strongly, I even asked you if you had a role reason for scanning him and you said no so I'm not sure why you expect me to think anything other than that you're full of shit.

Nikanorrrrrr

Andyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Do you want to vote the curiouskarmadawg with me?

[Nikanor]

I liked sangres's reads list. Their reads are close to my own. The argument that sangres is scum for only having two scum reads is really silly, I think this is just a group of people where it's way easier to form town reads than scum reads.

[Nikanor]

Like come on Andy, the only other people on the sangres wagon are scumreads of yours (BRO and ckd) so you have no business being there.

[Nikanor]

How do you feel about Snow, Tammy?

@ckd: Does Axe force you to use the ability? If not, I don't see the problem. I really doubt he does and your screen push on him looks meaningless as a result. If he looks like scum then just don't use the ability.

[Nikanor]

That makes absolutely no sense.

[Nikanor]

I mean I don't think you're lying since Axehole will confirm/deny your claims anyway, but it just doesn't make sense for him to control both. :/ I'm more complaining to the gods than anything else here.

[Nikanor]

What do you think of SnowStorm?

[Nikanor]

Nikanor, tell me again your thoughts on Sangres?

I've been thinking he is more likely town than not since his reads list. It looks really well thought-out and it flows naturally. Their reads are also pretty similar to my own, which helps.

I didn't like his push for a screen to the exclusion of everything else at all, I didn't really understand what town motive he could possibly have for it and I personally thought it sounded fake and overblown as hell, although yeah, it is a pretty odd way for scum to play.

This is pretty close to how I'm feeling about ckd now. His posts just look fake. Especially the accusations against Toog and Snow recently.
It's not that odd for him to act that way as scum though since it'd a) give him and his scum team a reason to avoid the screen, and b) make him look town without having to really contribute anything. Like, it's easy to say that it's odd for scum to play that way, but it's not really telling because it's an odd way for town to play as well.

[Nikanor]

naa has said more than once that he thinks ckd is 100% town.

I don't trust naa's motivation, reads or anything, but.

naa said it was an attempt to get ckd nightkilled.

[Nikanor]

@Nikanor

- Where do you see ckd attacking Toogeloo? All I can find is him saying he doesn't feel the Toogeloo wagon.

I guess I was mistaken, then. Not sure how I confused that.

[Nikanor]

Yeahhh, I don't care much for any of those wagons.

[Nikanor]

Unvote. Vote: Andrius.

[Nikanor]

jk

Unvote.

I'm not sure what I should do now. I have at least a mild town read on all of the players up for lynch today.
If I have to choose, then probably BROseidon if only because it'll shut everyone up about him. Apparently a single point is enough to ignore everything else he's said this game. Keep in mind though that he's V/LA until Friday so we won't be getting a claim out of him if we lynch him today.
I should probably re-assess Toogeloo and the points against him sometime today.

[Nikanor]

So no one is swaying their vote from BRO? I kind of want to hammer, just to put everyone (including myself) out of their misery. This is absolutely ridiculous. Sangres, Toogeloo... You're both willing to slam a power role without allowing him to validate his role? First game boys? I'm not sure if you're under the illusion that we have time to play around with? I honestly have no reasonable justification as to why there are still 8 votes on the guy despite the claim... 2 of those 8 have posted since the claim.

And yet you're still calling me scum for wanting to do the same.

[Nikanor]

Valilia is town.

Vote: SnowStorm.

We have a day and a half left, maybe a vote on the Storm will pass.

[Nikanor]

heh, greetings.

[Nikanor]

i think you might be scum, friend. i particularly didn't like that you flipped your read on sangres after their reads list. i disliked sangres scum reads (in ooba and well, at the time BRO - i thought bro was town).

So why do you still think I'm scum for liking his reads then? You disagreed with his scum reads but he was correct on half of them.

So, back to flavor spec... I think this game takes place mostly during the Pegasus era of BSG.

People were stuck on Caprica for d1 so no. I'm assuming it's just "BSG-themed" with no particular timeframe.

Screen: Lady Lambdadelta.

I stand by the idea that we should screen players with low post counts.
ValiliaRei should claim as well now. Make sure we get a screen in before lynching.

[Nikanor]

Brian, why did you think it was ooba at first?

[Nikanor]

The Wrong Lynch is scum, btw.

[Nikanor]

Nah, I'm just looking at his play. It's either that or his brain was scrambled from the radiation on Caprica.

[Nikanor]

maybe i was wrong about brian.

what do you think, ws?

stop asking scum to help you

[Nikanor]

am i the only one who thinks it's real fucking odd that these 3 chumps fly in from bizzarroland and all start posting the same reads that are so upside-down that you'd think they were australian?
i can't be the only one feeling this way.

[Nikanor]

i'm not saying that they're all scum together but wow

[Nikanor]

i think you might be scum, friend. i particularly didn't like that you flipped your read on sangres after their reads list. i disliked sangres scum reads (in ooba and well, at the time BRO - i thought bro was town).

So why do you still think I'm scum for liking his reads then? You disagreed with his scum reads but he was correct on half of them.

ya, the bro read, in which it's already speculated that it was very likely a bus

ok so you're saying that you think BROseidon was bussed by sangres, and I'm scum for posting a thought that sangres is town for his reads, one of which is a BRO scum read, before BRO flipped yesterday.
Am I getting this right?

[Nikanor]

Yes, I can tell you've all been working very closely together. Your reads are very... incestuous.
Why do you think that TWL is town?

there was nothing special about their reads list. mostly because scum can easily fake one, you know this.

Yes, but I don't think theirs was fake.

Yeah I'm totally Australian .

Called it.

[Nikanor]

Like, I'm not sure what else you want me to say Mantis, but it definitely wasn't a strong scumread. I even say in the post that I think it could be partially due to how loud the anti-sangresers were.

I think that there was probably at least one scum on the BRO wagon, yeah.

[Nikanor]

no.

[Nikanor]

don't do it snow!

[Nikanor]

Lets face it, this game is aligning with expected flavor pretty reasonably. SS is a great candidate for sleeper agent.

Please read the rest of the game.
I'm Ellen Tigh, I'm in the same boat as Snow. We can't both be sleepers. There's no point in him flavourclaiming right now.

[Nikanor]

I think that there was probably at least one scum on the BRO wagon, yeah.

do you have anyone in mind?

why did you vote snowstorm yesterday?

I don't have anyone in particular in mind, no. I'd like to scan LLD partially because she has the lowest post count atm and partially because she pushed the Toog wagon until the BRO lynch was inevitable.

I thought Snow was being overly technical. I think he's town now, though.

@ooba: Imma ask the mods about this discussion first brb.

[Nikanor]

@ooba: Imma ask the mods about this discussion first brb.

Good call.

Also good time to point to mods that I took "Can you trust yourself?" from the role in the Opening post.

My role PM implies that I just might be a dirty scumbag. But I can definitely see where Snow is coming from here, other than that it's completely human. If I didn't know the flavour I'd have no idea.

[Nikanor]

AP is a seriously dumb screen.
how about we let the guy who scanned scum yesterday pick today's scan?
oh wait, that was me.
screen lld for prime minister 2015

[Nikanor]

btw that's a really good catch axehole.
i feel like ooba is fucking with us though. "don't use your protections, doctors!!" yeah, yeah.
toog is safe for another night at least, bc watcher and such.

[Nikanor]

I don't think his list was ordered.
The sleeper thinks he's town at the moment, Axe, so it does kind of make sense that they'd be a doctor. Well, not make sense per se, but it's acceptable.

[Nikanor]

@Axe: It's probably not a read on LLD. RIP should only claim if he actually does have a result.
@Boo: They're all idiots, I don't think it's alignment indicative.

[Nikanor]

guys, maybe we should let ooba live
it might be really amusing

Boo: I thought it was a tell until like a dozen people did it.
Axe: SnowStorm.

[Nikanor]

SnowStorm has the same flavour as me.

[Nikanor]

Is this role info, Poro?

[Nikanor]

Not even close to a screenhammer, it's 8 screens on Porochaz by my count.
Which is great, because Porochaz is literally the worst screen we could do. Why not just screen Toogeloo while we're at it, or Nero Cain, or the fucking moderator, let's just throw our investigations into the wind, we don't need them since we're winning anyway right??
I guess that what you guys don't realize is that since LLD is on vacation until like September she'll be posting maybe once every one or two days, and the posts will be more of what we've seen. If we don't screen her today then I need guarantees from at least half of you that she'll be lynched tomorrow because there is no way I'm going to deal with a player that wants to post four times a week without replacing out.

[Nikanor]

RIP, Valilia, Pidgeon, SnowStorm & sangres are all terrible screens.

[Nikanor]

Yeah I'm ok with that.
I'm still not screening prozac, though. Lemme think about who I want, 5 mins.

[Nikanor]

CKD, Bookitty and The Wrong Lynch are all excellent screen targets.

[Nikanor]

Andy: I can't tell if your post is supposed to be saying "CKD? :\" or "CKD? :D" but I'll follow your lead if you wanna screen any of those three I mentioned.

[Nikanor]

Screen: Bookitty.

[Nikanor]

Axe: You asked me earlier to claim, I forgot to mention this but I wanted to officially refuse your request. Also, can you tell me the mechanics of how much control you have over ckd's action? Like, do you choose the a) time it's used, b) target, c) all of the above, or d) none of the above.

[Nikanor]

Btw Nero!!! I have a FANTASTIC DEAL!! in store for YOU!!!!!!!
Prove your vote restriction TODAY and I won't lynch you LATER!!!

GREAT DEAL, W O W ! ! ! ! !

[Nikanor]

@AP, can you tell me the order in which you guys posted your scum reads on me in the neighborhood pt? I need to know whether mantis is scum.

[Nikanor]

I will go more into detail later, but

Screen: Porochaz

Since everyone is refusing to discuss the point I brought up about screen strategy, I've decided this is the best route. We should screen our highest sleeper suspects and on a tie, screen the one we prefer to have alive.

At this point, all I can say is, I think porochaz has a fair chance of being the sleeper (as I previously indicated). If he isn't the sleeper, he is on the top of my list to not lynch. Since eventually it will come down to screen or lynch on these players, he is my top screen.

I think LLD is tomorrow's obvious lynch, waste of a screen.

I also think angrypidgeon could be scum... Nothing concrete yet, just gut feeling. It has to be him or the guy who isn't in the game.

I think that AP was right when he said that trying to find the sleeper is silly. We have a way higher chance of getting a guilty if we screen our scum reads first, just because it gives us a chance to hit actual real scum as well as stumble upon the sleeper. And your only somewhat-decent reason for wanting Poro screened is because you think you might stumble upon the sleeper. (Trying for innocent screens is not good since realistically we're probably going to get one anyway).

[Nikanor]

Btw Nero!!! I have a FANTASTIC DEAL!! in store for YOU!!!!!!!
Prove your vote restriction TODAY and I won't lynch you LATER!!!

GREAT DEAL, W O W ! ! ! ! !

I don't get why this is a thing.

I was suspicious of Nero because of the "no vote in RVS" thing, which seemed pretty unlikely. His later explanation and clarification, though, made perfect sense. So what's the advantage of proving it and making him take a penalty for it? I don't even think it's alignment indicative either way, and I think Nero is pretty town, so... why?

Because why not?
He's like really really high on my town list, but I'm not going to be the idiot who loses because he didn't ask for the confirmable role to confirm his role on the off chance that Nero is scum.
Tomorrow's lynch is already decided anyway so I don't see the point in him not proving the role. There is literally only positives for him and everyone else.

[Nikanor]

Btw Nero!!! I have a FANTASTIC DEAL!! in store for YOU!!!!!!!
Prove your vote restriction TODAY and I won't lynch you LATER!!!

GREAT DEAL, W O W ! ! ! ! !

Bad post.

Nero wouldn't fake a vote restriction and I'm not interested in him testing it.

I seriously don't understand the objections to having someone prove their role? THERE IS LITERALLY NO DOWNSIDE.

[Nikanor]

I will go more into detail later, but

Screen: Porochaz

Since everyone is refusing to discuss the point I brought up about screen strategy, I've decided this is the best route. We should screen our highest sleeper suspects and on a tie, screen the one we prefer to have alive.

At this point, all I can say is, I think porochaz has a fair chance of being the sleeper (as I previously indicated). If he isn't the sleeper, he is on the top of my list to not lynch. Since eventually it will come down to screen or lynch on these players, he is my top screen.

I think LLD is tomorrow's obvious lynch, waste of a screen.

I also think angrypidgeon could be scum... Nothing concrete yet, just gut feeling. It has to be him or the guy who isn't in the game.

I think that AP was right when he said that trying to find the sleeper is silly. We have a way higher chance of getting a guilty if we screen our scum reads first, just because it gives us a chance to hit actual real scum as well as stumble upon the sleeper. And your only somewhat-decent reason for wanting Poro screened is because you think you might stumble upon the sleeper. (Trying for innocent screens is not good since realistically we're probably going to get one anyway).

I understand what you're saying, but I entirely disagree and I don't think you read most of the points I made.

Nikanor, how many scum are left after Ooba dies? How many scum are left if LLD flips scum as well? (which I am guessing there is a solid chance of)

I don't think there are enough scum reads or scum left after those two lynches to justify using the scan AND lynch both to find that the remaining scum team. This is made worse by the fact that I think the sleeper will be very tough to find and I think it is a much stronger strategy to rely on our LLD read than to just be like "Oh, we'll deal with the sleeper on day 4". I don't understand why you're playing in the present right now... The lynch is set in stone, but you're playing like it hasn't happened.

There are probably two scum left after ooba, and two scum left after LLD is lynched (and after the sleeper awakens). 4 scum and a sleeper makes the most sense with as much town power as has been displayed.
I'm not screening LLD anymore btw, I'm screening Bookitty.
I looked back at your potential sleeper list and although I'd assumed she'd be there, she isn't. Why is that?

[Nikanor]

Also, anyone who suggests the idea that I'd push ooba's screening singlehandedly after my scumbuddy has scumslipped is a master of comedy.

[Nikanor]

Here, have a reads list, ordered from best to worst screen, and roughly from most to least scummy with the exception of the last section.

Good screens

Bookitty

- Could easily be scum. She was pushing BROseidon at the beginning, sure. But she was also one of the first ones to unvote when the mod said that Cylon flavour did not necessarily translate to Cylon alignment. Then, she didn't rejoin the BRO wagon until much, much later, and she would have sooner screened BROseidon than lynched him. Since it looked like he was getting lynched either way, having him screened would have been an excellent way to let the role cop survive another day. My second-best scumread and probably the only one with a chance of getting screened today so I've listed her first here.

THE WRONG LYNCH

- Spouts nothing but fake anger, calls the Brian result on ooba a fakeclaim for no real reason (they won't think you're scum with ooba if you have a huge townread on him for no reason, right? Logically, scum would bus at this point... right?), generally obviously scum. I find him scummier than Bookitty and it's pretty unfortunate that the only people who agree with me are the townies who are literally insane.

curiouskarmadog

- Could be wrong, but his posts look off to me. Like, why would you want to screen a guy when you are basically a dedicated tracker to him? It's completely illogical. I have three scum reads and he's the one that I think I have the highest chance of being incorrect on.

Okay screens

SnowStorm

- I'm really only townreading him for his flavour claim. If he hadn't claimed that, I'd probably be pushing his lynch now. His play has been too technical for my liking. My 4th-best scumread.

Mantisdreamz

- I think she'd be townreading me as town. It's pretty possible from my point of view that she's scumreading me to suck up to her neighbors, who've also expressed scum reads on me, in an attempt to build a bloc with them.

Bad screens

Porochaz

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Posting has been town.

sangres

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Listed both ooba and BROseidon as scum and was on both wagons yesterday.

AngryPidgeon

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. His posting has looked town so far and if there were any scum in the neighborhood then Mantis and TWL are way more likely than this guy.

NotAnAxehole

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Posting looks town, one of the first on the ooba wagons and had the same view on the BROseidon wagon as I did.

Nero Cain

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Town posting, town role, still don't understand why nobody else wants him to prove his restriction but you're all morons anyway so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

ValiliaRei

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Targeted Tammy the night she was killed so would be nearly confirmed town if not for the sleeper agent.

RIP

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Obviously town.

Andrius

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Tammy was a backup to Andrius so Andy is probably town. No reason to reward town twice for lynching scum, from a modding perspective.

Brian Skies

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Confirmed to be a watcher by ooba, if it was bussing I imagine ooba'd put up more of a fight than this.

Nikanor

- Awful screen choice, probably town, could maybe be the sleeper but who cares, really. Like really, I caused the ooba screen AND I provided flavour information that directly contradicted BROseidon's. Apparently asking Nero to confirm his role when tomorrow's lynch is already decided is a total scum move that nullifies all of that though, how could a townie

possibly

want

anyone

to confirm themselves and remove even the shadow of a doubt about his role? It's inconceivable, apparently!

Terrible screens

Battlestar Galactica

- Might as well screen this guy before anyone else in this section.

Lady Lambdadelta

- Lynching this tomorrow.

PeaceBringer

- Not in the game, otherwise a fantastic screen target.

Toogeloo

- Very low probability of being scum, even lower probability that he'd reveal a scum result on himself.

ooba

- uh.

[Nikanor]

And I wonder how many people who are chaining my lynch tomorrow actually have any sort of read on me. Because a lot of the verbage in this game, and the intent behind it does not match.

I do not expect you to flip scum, Lady Lambdadelta. I expect you to die.

[Nikanor]

And I wonder how many people who are chaining my lynch tomorrow actually have any sort of read on me. Because a lot of the verbage in this game, and the intent behind it does not match.

I do not expect you to flip scum, Lady Lambdadelta. I expect you to die.

Care to elaborate why?

I mean, if your goal this game is really to just lynch scum, then why this lynch?

Ok nevermind, now I do expect you to flip scum.

[Nikanor]

>:[

[Nikanor]

I'm the sleeper

confirmed scum, pile on folks.

[Nikanor]

I find him scummier than Bookitty and it's pretty unfortunate that the only people who agree with me are the townies who are literally insane.

So now I'm insane?

Sure why not.
Everyone in this game is insane.
Except for me.
I'm the normal one.
The only normal one.
Yes, yes.
Normal.
That's me.
aha
ahahe
aheaheahaeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Nikanor]

I'm the sleeper

confirmed scum, pile on folks.

What

i

s your d

am

age, anyway?

You fought tooth and nail to stop the

sc

reen on BROseidon and did all you could to obf

u

scate by ignoring the flavour-comment vs. the show-Cylon thing. You've

m

isrepped me all game. Yes, screen me. But don't lie to get it done.

breadcrumbs detected.
you're real cocky bookitty. you might've gotten away with it too if i wasn't here.

[Nikanor]

@AP, can you tell me the order in which you guys posted your scum reads on me in the neighborhood pt? I need to know whether mantis is scum.

this is so bad nikanor.

i was thinking earlier, that it was interesting that i didn't immediately get a town read on you, as in AngryFratBro's game.

Interesting indeed.

[Nikanor]

could someone quickly explain to me the difference between Nik and Bro. Bro claimed that he was a Cylon and Nik claimed that his Character was Cylon?

BRO claimed that it said he was a cylon in his flavour.
I claimed that my character was a cylon but that I had nothing in my flavour that indicated that I was a cylon.
SnowStorm claimed the same today.

[Nikanor]

I'm Saul Tigh.

It's not useless. I'm letting you know that Saul Tigh does not exist. He was a fake claim that BRO used. So Saul Tigh will not be answering your question.

So the day 1 lynch fake claim conclusively proves there is no Saul tigh?

Thanks for your input, it wasn't ignored, I just think its invalid.

Valilia is correct.

[Nikanor]

Yeah, the scum get flavour fakeclaims in every theme game that are guaranteed to not be in the game. Otherwise the game is kind of broken.

[Nikanor]

You didn't catch this as a joke?

I don't actually care if it's a joke. Nikanor has been passive-aggressively misrepping me all through the game.

If Nikanor is joking with me because he knows that I'm town, that speaks to him being scum, doesn't it?

If he's joking because he's suspicious of me, he's actually undercutting his own case by making light of it.

There's no good reason for starting with the joke frame-ups at this point. What's the pro-town motivation for it?

Yes, Gods forbid anyone make a joke, mafia is srs bsns.

[Nikanor]

The Saul fakeclaim wasn't horrible, sure the Tighs were married but they weren't exactly close, as shown by (insert spoilers here). I'm not sure which character you are, but Toogeloo and Peacebringer's flavour includes them literally being inside each other's minds. I also know that there are a dozen relationships stronger than the Tighs' ties. Hell, I'd buy a Adama-Saul or an Ellen-Cavil neighborhood before Ellen-Saul.

[Nikanor]

Vote: Bookitty.

Human result means she's confirmed to be a Godfather. Scum caught gg

[Nikanor]

Unvote.

Just trying to be a brat.

My opinions haven't changed. I do absolutely want TWL lynched. I'd be up for screening Mantis if it wasn't for the fact that she was in the neighborhood with TWL. As such, I think she's probably town. If I'm wrong about TWL, that might change, but my reasons for thinking Mantis are scum are not very great so w/e.
curiouskarmadog would be my preferred screen but nobody will listen to me on that so I'll have to go for SnowStorm.

Vote: THE WRONG LYNCH.

Screen: SnowStorm.

[Nikanor]

That was a waste of a screen.

Ya. Can we screen Andrius Today? I just realized that I want to screen Andrius.

Screen: Andrius

Do you think that Tammy was backup to scum?

[Nikanor]

Unvote.

Just trying to be a brat.

My opinions haven't changed. I do absolutely want TWL lynched. I'd be up for screening Mantis if it wasn't for the fact that she was in the neighborhood with TWL. As such, I think she's probably town. If I'm wrong about TWL, that might change, but my reasons for thinking Mantis are scum are not very great so w/e.
curiouskarmadog would be my preferred screen but nobody will listen to me on that so I'll have to go for SnowStorm.

Vote: THE WRONG LYNCH.

Screen: SnowStorm.

So basically you think it's either TWL or Mantis... I don't entirely disagree, I just think the opposite is more likely. (Mantis scum, TWL town)

I can get behind a SnowStorm screen

Screen: SnowStorm

TWL is expressing the classic scumtell of FakeOutrageAtBeingCalledScummySoThatHeCanLookTownWithoutDoingMuchInsteadOfActuallyBotheringToScumhunt.
I have no idea why anyone else thinks Mantis is particularly likely to be scum. I know I have my own reasons but they don't really apply to anyone else and I can't see anything other than the thing that applies only to me really.

[Nikanor]

Do you think that Tammy was backup to scum?

Huh? As in the sleeper agent? No?

Also RE TWL: Nikanor I kind of think your posts look town Today and that is exciting. Can you explain the TWL read to me? I refuse to compromise on a Mantis read; she is town. What do you think about Andrius right now?

As in to Andrius. Tammy was a backup to Andrius, who is Admiral Helena Cain. That's my main reason for thinking that Andy is town. From a modding perspective there's no need to reward town once for actually lynching scum and then again by adding the scum's powers to their own arsenal.

It's amusing that you think my too-much-caffeine-posting is particularly more town than my sober-posting. Right now I'm thinking that TWL is scum mostly because of his fake outrage at everything. His first post was spent calling everyone's reads bad without doing much else and the rest of his posts haven't done much to correct the situation.
He also says he had a townread on ooba on d1, which is pretty impossible considering ooba's posts, to me it feels like some weird wifomy anti-distancing. Post that you think your good-as-dead scumbuddy is obvtown so that nobody suspects you of already knowing his alignment, is the way I think his strategy was worded.

[Nikanor]

The only way I see SleeperAgentSix working is if, upon activation, he is forced to take a model that forces him to be in-thread for the rest of the game. Because us being unable to kill scum is just bad.
So if he actually joins the thread forever I might take issue with that.

The Model Six named Gina joined the show when the Pegasus was introduced. She was Cain's lover, hence the private topic with you. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Peacebringer formally joined the game on day four.

[Nikanor]

What do we know about PB's role? How is it known that he did anything to Andrius? What are the nature of those results - is it a name cop or something?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6845733

[Nikanor]

Unscreen.

[Nikanor]

^What changed your mind on TWL?

[Nikanor]

V/LA for the long weekend.

[Nikanor]

@Nik:

Interesting. Considering you have a lot of experience with playing with Krystal, do you want to explain why you're scum reading her. It's interesting that she was scum reading you and then she had doubts and all of a sudden you are up to scum-reading her.

I have like zero experience playing with Krystal outside of a hydra. This is the third game... we were both town in the second one and she was scum in the first.
In the first game we played together out-of-hydra, where she was scum and I was town, I tried really hard like an idiot to convince her that I was town. And she was just like, "HMMMMMMMMMMM, IDK NIKANOR, IDKKKKK" the whole time, until lylo where she convinced the other townie to mislynch me. In the second game, where we were both town, she got a town read on me and agreed with pretty much everything I said (since we think similarly) from page one and onward.
This game is reminding me a lot more of the first than the second.

I hope WS is sthar8. It'd give me so much pleasure to lynch his whiny spoiled ass.

Re: The Vanishment of the Anti-LLD Brigade: I never really particularly thought that LLD was scum. It was more a PoE thing. She was a good lynch because she had a decent chance of being scum and wasn't bothering to post anyway. She showed up though, so most of my reasons for wanting her dead were vapourized.

[Nikanor]

ValiliaRei claiming doctor is interesting and might confirm her as the sleeper? I'd prefer to scan that though, there's not much point in lynching people based on what scum said.
You do need to fullclaim now though, Valilia.

[Nikanor]

Nik seems oddly disinclined to post anything but flavour spec recently.

This is utterly untrue.

[Nikanor]

I hope WS is sthar8. It'd give me so much pleasure to lynch his whiny spoiled ass.

its not

Shame.

[Nikanor]

ValiliaRei claiming doctor is interesting and might confirm her as the sleeper? I'd prefer to scan that though, there's not much point in lynching people based on what scum said.
You do need to fullclaim now though, Valilia.

That makes no sense. There's no good reason for her to full claim.

There is, but I'm really not convinced that trying to sway you people is the best use of my time so I'm willing to drop it.

[Nikanor]

I don't see how Mala claiming her identity changes peoples' reads on her, especially when a few of those people had already hunched it.

[Nikanor]

I was hoping to have a better idea, but I'm just going to go with my top suspicion. They're hanging back and not engaging while we discuss other options, which isn't making me feel warm and fuzzy thoughts about them.

VOTE: Nikanor

I've given bits and pieces of the case in previous posts but if it's wanted I will make an actual "case" post to put it all together.

TWL is the only decent option for today and they're not posting anything of substance. If a serious wagon appears on a terrible lynch option (i.e. RIP), I'll attack it then, but there are too many dumb opinions this game to go and call each and every one of them dumb.

[Nikanor]

Just thought of this now: there probably is a Cylon ninja, but ooba performed the kill n1 because he would have the least chance of being RB'd on n1. The risk of him being tracked was moot because he had been inspected anyway. I believe that ValiliaRei stopped last night's nightkill by protecting Toogeloo.

[Nikanor]

Nikanor seems really town at this point.

Why, please, specifically?

I have my reasons, but I think it would be better if Nikanor discussed this a bit rather than me.

I have given my reasons. The fact that my showCylon role PM flavour contradicted BROseidon's should make me nearly confirmed town. I also pushed for ooba's screen while BRO was getting lynched; that should cover the 10% that wasn't confirmed by the contradiction in flavour.
I understand that I've been wrong about a lot of things this game (my d1 was not particularly stellar), but lynching me in spite of everything else that I've done, albeit accidentally, would be foolish.

I was hoping to have a better idea, but I'm just going to go with my top suspicion. They're hanging back and not engaging while we discuss other options, which isn't making me feel warm and fuzzy thoughts about them.

VOTE: Nikanor

I've given bits and pieces of the case in previous posts but if it's wanted I will make an actual "case" post to put it all together.

TWL is the only decent option for today and they're not posting anything of substance. If a serious wagon appears on a terrible lynch option (i.e. RIP), I'll attack it then, but there are too many dumb opinions this game to go and call each and every one of them dumb.

I don't think it's a good option to be honest, I feel like if they were there from day 1, you'd have them written off with a completely different read. I'm not saying it's opportunistic so much as the read doesn't really makes sense given the set up of the game. How many people haven't posted content today? I count far more than TWL, in fact, TWL has posted more content that some (which is saying a lot). I think if TWL gets lynched right now, then there is probably some flaw in the set up of the game, because unless you are a very pro-active poster and/or know people in the game, you get lynched coming on board day 2 (or 3 if confirmed scum are found on day 2).

There is absolutely no case to be made about TWL right now... They might end up being the lynch, but I won't be supporting it. I think, we should look at some players we can get reads on and lynch one of them, let TWL build up a little bit of a post count and then, if they fail to provide anything, lynch them tomorrow (I obviously think that a town or scum read on them at this point is pretty dumb).

You shouldn't suggest that every other wagon is terrible if you're hardly participating in the game though, it makes it that much harder to read and form legitimate reads.

I'll admit that I've been slacking off. I'll post another reads list, maybe do some vote pattern analysis, tomorrow or so.

[Nikanor]

My townread on Mantis is slowly dying. Dying.

It's obv that she's not reading the game, but she's skimming and trying to look useful rather than actually being useful.

Not realizing the sangres' screen was locked bothered me.

I could potentially see her flipping scum.

Sangres is bothering me because neither Fery nor Nacho is trying to sort us out, which is awk af tbh.

~Mala

How is Mantis not being useful a scumtell when it's obvious that she's not reading?
I also don't know how her not knowing that sangres was screened is scummy when again, it's obvious that she isn't reading.
Like, you imply that not reading the game is a null tell, and rightly so, but then you go and call her scum for these two things that can easily be attributed to not reading.

[Nikanor]

Nik seems oddly disinclined to post anything but flavour spec recently.

This is utterly untrue.

I am now going to set aside 30 minutes tomorrow to sort your recent posts (probably just Today's but maybe Yesterday's too) into two categories: 'actually playing the game' and 'flavour spec/fluff.'

It won't help because no-one will listen, but it will make me feel better.

Nik's posts from today:
Posts that are useful - 2368(?), 2365(?), 2276, 2045, 1981
Posts that could be useful but missed the point/are otherwise wrong/aren't developed - 2434, 2277(?), 2010, 1990, 1987
Setup spec/flavour spec/fluff - 2433, 2391, 2283, 2280, 2279, 2147, 2008, 2002, 1985, 1978

Anything with a question mark could also have been sorted into the category below it.

At a generous estimate, literally half Nik's posts today have been fluff/spec and literally 3/4 have been useless.

-gm

So if half my posts are fluff and spec, that doesn't really mean that I'm 'disinclined to post anything but flavour spec'. i.e. You're wrong and stretching definitions to try to justify your vote.
Neener neener.

[Nikanor]

Basic reads before I go, in no particular order:
Town: Bookitty, Porochaz, VR, AP, Nero, Toogeloo, Brian, Axe
Scum: sangres, Andrius, Nik
Null: LLD, Snow, ckd
IDEK: PB, RIP, Mantis

-gm

I'll add this to your personal wrong/utterly useless pile.

[Nikanor]

Vote: Nik

We haven't discussed it but I want, so...

-still gm

i've changed my mind on Nik, since it is true that he was pushing for ooba screen, while BRO was being lynched. he's either the worst scum player in the world, or probably town



nikanor - what are your thoughts on nero?

Nero's probtown. He was one of the first on the ooba screenwagon, his role seems town, and I doubt he'd forget about his own voting restriction as scum (town are usually way more carefree/casual about their votes than scum, so it's more likely he'd be careless and forget about his vote restriction as town).
His play has also generally looked town, but I can't really explain why.

[Nikanor]

My townread on Mantis is slowly dying. Dying.

It's obv that she's not reading the game, but she's skimming and trying to look useful rather than actually being useful.

Not realizing the sangres' screen was locked bothered me.

I could potentially see her flipping scum.

Sangres is bothering me because neither Fery nor Nacho is trying to sort us out, which is awk af tbh.

~Mala

How is Mantis not being useful a scumtell when it's obvious that she's not reading?
I also don't know how her not knowing that sangres was screened is scummy when again, it's obvious that she isn't reading.
Like, you imply that not reading the game is a null tell, and rightly so, but then you go and call her scum for these two things that can easily be attributed to not reading.

I'll have to get to my reads tomorrow as well.

Also @ the mantis situation, I think the point which was brought up was more the attempting to provide content while not being caught up whereas most people in the thread are either catching up or not posting at all. I'm not sure if it's alignment indicative, if it is, I would need some examples that back it, because I don't know enough about forum mafia. I'm not at all convinced that's the motivation behind mantis' posts (to try to look useful).

It isn't a tell. TWL is full of shit.

[Nikanor]

I scum-hunt just not the way you do. I go for townreads and go from there.

This must be how you scumhunt as town, because in this game you haven't been giving many town reads at all. Observe...
d2: Mantisdreamz (Stranded with on d1, meta read, town read disappeared d3), AngryPidgeon (Stranded with d1), Brian Skies (After he claimed watcher), ooba (Who was scum), Lady Lambdadelta (Gut read, town read disappeared d3, willing to lynch).
d3: ValiliaRei (After she was practically cleared by Brian)

Basically the only town read you've given that hasn't evaporated is on AngryPidgeon. So if you usually scumhunt by finding town, where's all the scumhunting at?

[Nikanor]

Edit: The only town read that isn't obvious, obviously.

[Nikanor]

scum can also "forget" about their restrictions.

i'm sure he was aware of what he was doing

i dunno, if TWL and LLD are town, nero looks bad, i think.

I mean, yes? Of course he could. But what'd be the point of refusing to test his restriction earlier (d2), and then faking a slip on d3? I just don't really buy the whole orchestrated magnificent bastard bit.

[Nikanor]

Here, have a reads list, ordered from most to least town.

100% to 90% Town

Toogeloo

- With the Gaius Baltar claim, Toogeloo is confirmed town, unless our mods are massive trolls. The fact that he revealed a scum result on ooba makes it even less likely that he's scum, if that even matters.

Bookitty

- Investigated by Toogeloo, and appeared to be Human. My theory that the scum tried to kill Toogeloo with a Ninja last night mostly excludes the possibility that Bookitty is a Godfather (why try to kill the Cop when he's inspecting the Godfather?), so I'm going to say that Bookitty is confirmed town for now.

PeaceBringer

- I'm reaaally curious to see whether PeaceBringer will be permanently joining the game tomorrow. If so, the chances of him being the sleeper agent are close to a billion. Otherwise, he's a lover to Toogeloo and dies with him, so no worries on that front.

Brian Skies

- Someone mentioned the possibility that he could be the sleeper, and that the mafia no-killed to avoid the Watcher risk. However, I do not think the mafia have the luxury of nokilling at this point. Aside from that, I think he's town because of the way he handled the Watcher claim, and the way that ooba reacted to it. The mafia also have two flipped investigative roles, so unless ValiliaRei is scum too, I do not think it makes sense for Brian Skies to be a mafia Watcher.

ValiliaRei

- ValiliaRei was the alternative to the ooba wagon on day two, and I believe she protected against the Toogeloo kill night two. She's the lowest in this category because I think that she has the highest chance of anyone in the game to be the sleeper agent right now. She's definitely not groupscum, though.

90% to 60% Town

NotAnAxehole

- His play has been town, and feel like I can follow his perspective pretty easily. He's my best non-role-related town read right now.

RIP

- I really don't see him as scum, and I

really

don't want to review his iso, either. His reaction to the Valilia wagon after Brian's claim and his reaction to ooba claiming scum both scream town to me. Suggesting him as a policy lynch is dumb when there are so many actual good lynches out there to be had.

Nero Cain

- I took a look through Nero's iso, though, and honestly I can't really see why I'm townreading him. His reads are very flexible, and he appears candid with every post, which is good, but I get the feeling he'd be able to pull off looking impulsive as scum anyway. But he was one of the first on the ooba wagon, and didn't shy away from my request to help start it, so that's good, and I do get a gut town read on him. Overall I'd say he is probably town.

AngryPidgeon

- My main reason for thinking that AP is town is because I think that TWL is scum, and I have a (very) mild scum read on Mantis. I honestly have not really read AP's posts simply because I don't see the point. If both Mantis and TWL end up being town then I'll review this.

The Neutral Zone

Mantisdreamz

- I don't really think that she's scum, even though this game is closer to her scum game, I think. As town, she's a lot more decisive, and does a lot less hemming and hawing than she has done in this game. Her play this game looks like indecisive scum, basically. The only hitch is that I believe with all my heart that TWL is scum, so that makes Mantis likely town. I don't think her activity level will improve with time, so my read on her will have to wait until TWL's flip to be improved.

Porochaz

- I need to reread this guy, but don't really have the motivation right now. At one point, I had a strong town read on him, but now I'm not sure. Jumping between the SnowStorm and LLD wagons is certainly not doing him any favours. I'm waiting on him to tell us a) what his back-and-forth with LLD on page 72ish did for him, because although he claims that it was extremely useful it hasn't changed his read, and b) a non-shitty reason for why he originally thought Snow was scum.

sangres

- Being screened today, so who cares.

curiouskarmadog

- I've stopped caring. Everyone else is content to completely ignore him for no reason so I will too.

Lady Lambdadelta

- It's utterly impossible to read her because she is not really here. But most of her points are horrible. I'd be ok with lynching her.

Scum Reads

SnowStorm

- I'm actually back to my original scumread on SnowStorm. Earlier today, I thought he was probably town for his comment toward the beginning of day two about not knowing that he was a showCylon. However, I just realized now that it's more likely that he didn't bother looking up his character if he's scum and that character is his safeclaim. But that's not why I think that Snow is scum. It's more that his play has been rather technical/careful, and he completely ignored ooba until day two. He also hasn't done much but badger LLD and complain about the Bookitty screen today.

elusive

- Tammy being a backup to elusive's role (Helena Cain) makes me doubt that elusive is scum. That said, that is really all that I have going for me on this slot. Andrius's play itself was not great and a bit scummy (he found BROseidon scummy but did not vote for him, and although he did include ooba in his scum reads, it was not until after ooba's screen was locked that he did this. I also don't really understand where the ooba scumread came from; it looks a lot like distancing since the scum read developed directly after the screen was locked). Not my preferred lynch because of the role stuff, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

THE WRONG LYNCH

- Malakittens has confirmed for us that she's not scumhunting in this game the way she usually does as town. She also didn't vote for ValiliaRei on d2, despite having a scum read on her, and instead waited for the guilty on ooba to vote for him. To me, this looks like someone who knew that she'd have to switch to ooba later and didn't want to look scummy doing so. gm also sneakily switched his reason for voting me from "seems disinclined to post anything but flavour spec" to "posting half fluff/spec and 3/4 uselessness". Apparently being useless is scummy when I do it but of course that doesn't apply to the 10 other people in this game doing the same. Frustration with not having any points to respond to is also a classic scum tell. As town, you should be able to say why

you're town

regardless of anything else. As scum, you're trying to convince people that

you're not scum

by arguing against the points they make.

[Nikanor]

In short, I'd really rather prefer not having to move my vote away from TWL. But I do understand that we cannot lynch scum every day, so I'd be ok with settling for a deadline lynch on elusive, Lady Lambdadelta or SnowStorm, in that order of preference.

[Nikanor]

AngryPidgeon

- My main reason for thinking that AP is town is because I think that TWL is scum, and I have a (very) mild scum read on Mantis. I honestly have not really read AP's posts simply because I don't see the point. If both Mantis and TWL end up being town then I'll review this.

if we both end up being town... don't review this. take my word that he was at least town in the PT. doesn't account for him being sleeper. but what a waste of time it would be to wifom yourself over the idea that there had to be a scum in the ppl that were stranded.

sangres, you made mention of this!

Ok. I'm questioning what the point of excluding three town from the game on d1 would be, but I guess that's not really worth much.

We have three days left until deadline and half the game is in fucking Disneyland. Joy.

[Nikanor]

Well just because they're not at the meet doesn't mean they're not at Disneyland.

[Nikanor]

anyone, give me a 3 point case why wrong lynch is scum...because I dont get it.

I did.

[Nikanor]

Well just because they're not at the meet doesn't mean they're not at Disneyland.

Pardon if this is incorrect, but if the meet is in Orlando, wouldn't they be at Disney World?

maybe. I never learned the difference.

[Nikanor]

Andrius did claim that you were bulletproof, elusive.

[Nikanor]

Is trying to act like you(mantis) is scumhunting a scumtell?

EDIT: meh, it actually looks like mantis is trying to scum hunt in the following pages…or something like it, but answer the question anyway Nik.

I disagree with the premise that she was 'acting' like she was trying to scumhunt. I agree that she was not really trying, and putting minimal effort in, but I don't see how it looks like she's faking any kind of scumhunting effort. In other words, I fail to see how her posting could really be seen as faking usefulness.

as I look at this vote count, Nik, do you think that Andy and TWL are scum together? or that one or the other is scum, but not together.

I don't know. Andy's vote doesn't tell me a whole bunch about TWL's alignment, since he was asked to vote for TWL and didn't say a whole lot after the vote. I could equally see a) Andrius being scum halfheartedly busing his last partner before losing motivation and replacing out, b) Andrius being scum lazily wagoning a townie, and c) Andrius being town lazing wagoning. I can't really assign any motivation to his vote because he didn't give any reasoning for it.

Can someone do a bullet points list of major developments? TIA

Spoiler: Bullet list of all the players in the game and their alignments

Here, have a reads list, ordered from most to least town.

100% to 90% Town

Toogeloo

- With the Gaius Baltar claim, Toogeloo is confirmed town, unless our mods are massive trolls. The fact that he revealed a scum result on ooba makes it even less likely that he's scum, if that even matters.

Bookitty

- Investigated by Toogeloo, and appeared to be Human. My theory that the scum tried to kill Toogeloo with a Ninja last night mostly excludes the possibility that Bookitty is a Godfather (why try to kill the Cop when he's inspecting the Godfather?), so I'm going to say that Bookitty is confirmed town for now.

PeaceBringer

- I'm reaaally curious to see whether PeaceBringer will be permanently joining the game tomorrow. If so, the chances of him being the sleeper agent are close to a billion. Otherwise, he's a lover to Toogeloo and dies with him, so no worries on that front.

Brian Skies

- Someone mentioned the possibility that he could be the sleeper, and that the mafia no-killed to avoid the Watcher risk. However, I do not think the mafia have the luxury of nokilling at this point. Aside from that, I think he's town because of the way he handled the Watcher claim, and the way that ooba reacted to it. The mafia also have two flipped investigative roles, so unless ValiliaRei is scum too, I do not think it makes sense for Brian Skies to be a mafia Watcher.

ValiliaRei

- ValiliaRei was the alternative to the ooba wagon on day two, and I believe she protected against the Toogeloo kill night two. She's the lowest in this category because I think that she has the highest chance of anyone in the game to be the sleeper agent right now. She's definitely not groupscum, though.

90% to 60% Town

NotAnAxehole

- His play has been town, and feel like I can follow his perspective pretty easily. He's my best non-role-related town read right now.

RIP

- I really don't see him as scum, and I

really

don't want to review his iso, either. His reaction to the Valilia wagon after Brian's claim and his reaction to ooba claiming scum both scream town to me. Suggesting him as a policy lynch is dumb when there are so many actual good lynches out there to be had.

Nero Cain

- I took a look through Nero's iso, though, and honestly I can't really see why I'm townreading him. His reads are very flexible, and he appears candid with every post, which is good, but I get the feeling he'd be able to pull off looking impulsive as scum anyway. But he was one of the first on the ooba wagon, and didn't shy away from my request to help start it, so that's good, and I do get a gut town read on him. Overall I'd say he is probably town.

AngryPidgeon

- My main reason for thinking that AP is town is because I think that TWL is scum, and I have a (very) mild scum read on Mantis. I honestly have not really read AP's posts simply because I don't see the point. If both Mantis and TWL end up being town then I'll review this.

The Neutral Zone

Mantisdreamz

- I don't really think that she's scum, even though this game is closer to her scum game, I think. As town, she's a lot more decisive, and does a lot less hemming and hawing than she has done in this game. Her play this game looks like indecisive scum, basically. The only hitch is that I believe with all my heart that TWL is scum, so that makes Mantis likely town. I don't think her activity level will improve with time, so my read on her will have to wait until TWL's flip to be improved.

Porochaz

- I need to reread this guy, but don't really have the motivation right now. At one point, I had a strong town read on him, but now I'm not sure. Jumping between the SnowStorm and LLD wagons is certainly not doing him any favours. I'm waiting on him to tell us a) what his back-and-forth with LLD on page 72ish did for him, because although he claims that it was extremely useful it hasn't changed his read, and b) a non-shitty reason for why he originally thought Snow was scum.

sangres

- Being screened today, so who cares.

curiouskarmadog

- I've stopped caring. Everyone else is content to completely ignore him for no reason so I will too.

Lady Lambdadelta

- It's utterly impossible to read her because she is not really here. But most of her points are horrible. I'd be ok with lynching her.

Scum Reads

SnowStorm

- I'm actually back to my original scumread on SnowStorm. Earlier today, I thought he was probably town for his comment toward the beginning of day two about not knowing that he was a showCylon. However, I just realized now that it's more likely that he didn't bother looking up his character if he's scum and that character is his safeclaim. But that's not why I think that Snow is scum. It's more that his play has been rather technical/careful, and he completely ignored ooba until day two. He also hasn't done much but badger LLD and complain about the Bookitty screen today.

elusive

- Tammy being a backup to elusive's role (Helena Cain) makes me doubt that elusive is scum. That said, that is really all that I have going for me on this slot. Andrius's play itself was not great and a bit scummy (he found BROseidon scummy but did not vote for him, and although he did include ooba in his scum reads, it was not until after ooba's screen was locked that he did this. I also don't really understand where the ooba scumread came from; it looks a lot like distancing since the scum read developed directly after the screen was locked). Not my preferred lynch because of the role stuff, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

THE WRONG LYNCH

- Malakittens has confirmed for us that she's not scumhunting in this game the way she usually does as town. She also didn't vote for ValiliaRei on d2, despite having a scum read on her, and instead waited for the guilty on ooba to vote for him. To me, this looks like someone who knew that she'd have to switch to ooba later and didn't want to look scummy doing so. gm also sneakily switched his reason for voting me from "seems disinclined to post anything but flavour spec" to "posting half fluff/spec and 3/4 uselessness". Apparently being useless is scummy when I do it but of course that doesn't apply to the 10 other people in this game doing the same. Frustration with not having any points to respond to is also a classic scum tell. As town, you should be able to say why

you're town

regardless of anything else. As scum, you're trying to convince people that

you're not scum

by arguing against the points they make.

SnowStorm vs LLD looks like VT vs VT... If either was scum, it would surprise me less if SnowStorm flipped scum. Given my read on him, it's not much of a risk to lynch him, so out of the current wagons, I will probably be joining the SnowStorm wagon... I don't think it's an optimal lynch, but I think it's good enough. I don't see how this lynch is better than RIP (who I have a similar read on at the moment, but that's not going anywhere.

Why are you comparing wagons based on how good the player would be to policy lynch? Don't you have any scum reads to lynch?

I didn't like how people made the TWL wagon into a serious thing, I wanted to put some pressure on them which is why I started the wagon... Honestly, I really don't like their play since the whole "No one wants to play with us" post. I don't think they're scum, namely because it's reminding me a lot of a game I played with ABR (I know, different player), where he basically did the same thing "baaah, I have no one to play with... Boohoo", I targeted him, he flipped town. So, it might be a misconstrued read based on a previous game, but there are a lot of similarities which make me wonder. I think TWL is town at this point.

You probably shouldn't use anecdotal experience with a wild card like Albert to clear a completely different person in a completely different game. Like, you know how weirdly Albert plays.

anyone, give me a 3 point case why wrong lynch is scum...because I dont get it.

I did.

meh, humor me again

Malakittens has confirmed for us that she's not scumhunting in this game the way she usually does as town. She also didn't vote for ValiliaRei on d2, despite having a scum read on her, and instead waited for the guilty on ooba to vote for him. To me, this looks like someone who knew that she'd have to switch to ooba later and didn't want to look scummy doing so. gm also sneakily switched his reason for voting me from "seems disinclined to post anything but flavour spec" to "posting half fluff/spec and 3/4 uselessness". Apparently being useless is scummy when I do it but of course that doesn't apply to the 10 other people in this game doing the same. Frustration with not having any points to respond to is also a classic scum tell. As town, you should be able to say why

you're town

regardless of anything else. As scum, you're trying to convince people that

you're not scum

by arguing against the points they make.

Hey Nikanor, it's been a while.

Not really! Hello. Please stop bringing up Andrius's play. I guarantee it will do you no favours. Simply listing a scum guy as a scum read without actually pushing them is not at all indicative of town. And as I've already pointed out, Andrius said nothing about ooba being scum until the screen was already locked. So it's just making you look worse. You're better off producing your own content, if town.

Yes, I can understand why people would suspect me, I always am and I don't mind it, it's how I get my reads, it's how I play. I don't think my actions themselves are as scummy as my lack of presence. I think that's what town would find more worrisome about my play, my low profile and lack of reads. I know people who haven't played with me tend to find me scummy, as well as people who don't put much thought into my slot, I understand how someone could be skimming the thread, see a SnowStorm post and think, "wait, this guy looks kinda scummy". That causes some players to get a scummy impression of me, but one that doesn't match reality. It's an impression which can be easily changed if people try to read me, I mean, actually reading my posts and trying to understand them, question me, interact with me. That scummy first impression eventually fades. It doesn't always turn into a town read, but it will give you that feeling that something is wrong about your scum read on me. If after properly trying to read me, someone keeps a scum read on me, then either they didn't try hard enough or they're scum.

Wtf is this. Are you trying to filibuster a mafia game?

Not Town:
ckd
Wrong Lynch
AP
LLD
Poro
Sangres

Not town is my scum pool. Players I'm scum-reading and players I'm not town-reading. Players I want to sort out.

Can you be more specific? Like, separate them into scum and null, at the very least. You can't write a whole essay on people not trying hard enough to read you and then post this meatless bag of bones.

Agreed I don't have scum meta on you, but I have town meta on you.

And it's not really 'bs'. I have a bunch of flat out scum tells and you have already hit a few of them.

What scumtells? I'm not seeing how elusive's first post is so amazingly scummy.

[Nikanor]

@TWL, I have a very important question. And I'm pretty sure only nikanor and mantis will understand what I think to gain from this... Which of the hydra heads chose the profile picture?

lol.

[Nikanor]

Come on man, at least acknowledge that I'm repeating my points on TWL for you.

[Nikanor]

Or maybe nobody believed your claim in the first place??

[Nikanor]

Nikanor, maybe I'm biased because I know the slot is town but Andrius seemed to be playing pretty well? I'm going to ISO and do reads later on today or tomorrow post RL stuff. I also have the neighbor chat with Peacebringer, but am unclear on how his role works as he and Andrius mostly talk about their town reads and scumreads.

Yeah but even if you're town and know that Andrius was town, you have no way of actually telling us what motivation Andy had to put ooba or BROseidon in his scum reads because Andy never posted anything about that. You can't even tell me why my theory about Andrius distancing from ooba by putting him in his scum pile postscan might be wrong.

What is your take Axe and Nikanor on CuriousDog, I'm going to ignore it for now but am I the only one who finds it playing dumb and asking really ridiculous questions that have been answered already?

I think that everything ckd posts is ridiculous but I also don't understand why you haven't simply answered him? All he wants is for you to either unvote or explain why you're voting for TWL. Just read TWL's iso. Trust me, it doesn't take long, I've done it like eleven times. I even gave you a cheat sheet of what to look for. Just step away from the game, do some actual work, and come back with content.

Definitely not mine, not Nikanor, not Mantis (I'm using examples from people I know as to not accidentally offend anyone).

My posting has been perfect, and to suggest otherwise is a slight on my honour. I've been on this site since before you even played your first game of werewolf, son, and frankly, I've had enough of your devil-may-care attitude. Fuck you, fuck your relatives, and most of all, fuck the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[Nikanor]

The Ooba townread was gut mainly. It wasn't Brian who I thought was doing a fake guilty.

No, i had a townread on ooba. i didn't have that much of a read on Brian. Just the way he presented himself felt like it could be a fake guilty like a reaction test.

lol

[Nikanor]

Can we lynch TWL yet? She just posted verified bullshit. If that's not gonna convince you guys then I don't know what will.

[Nikanor]

His reads make sense with what he's capable of

Well your posted scum reads are par for what I think you're capable of. Get it? Because you haven't posted any scum reads? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Nikanor]

Brian's comments felt like he had something on Ooba, but then felt weird when he backed off.

Yes. And Ooba's refusing to claim because he doesn't know what guilty result I have on him. By the time I come back, there better be a claim or a ton of sheep votes because I'm super excited to get a second scum lynch right now.

Also, this was Brian's last post before you posted your thing about fake guilties. Doesn't look like backing off to me.
You should really think about starting a garden with all of this fresh fertilizer on your hands.

[Nikanor]

a governor? seriously?

[Nikanor]

SHE WAS LITERALLY CAUGHT MAKING SHIT UP YOU ASSHOLES.

[Nikanor]

I refuse to vote for anyone else. I'm boycotting this day.

[Nikanor]

I'm boycotting responding to things too.

[Nikanor]

did somebody say grilled cheese?

[Nikanor]

lol.

[Nikanor]

I'm boycotting responding to things too.

Nik baby, your location, I think I know where that is

shhh i think my girlfriend might be reading this game

the mantis wagon is horrible.

[Nikanor]

We'll all die at some point, Pidgeon.

[Nikanor]

I feel like Nikanor could attempt to intentionally drive a mislynch with 2 scum dead. He has illustrated concern about being the sleeper before and has indicated that playing like it was not a possibility would be against his wincon. I don't understand how mantis is a terrible lynch given... It aligns with his reads that he posted yesterday.

Mantisdreamz

- I don't really think that she's scum

This lynch does not align with my reads.
While it's possible that Mantis might be the sleeper, trying to lynch the sleeper at this point is beyond idiotic, and you know that. Do you expect me to sit back and be okay with any lynch because they *

might

* be the sleeper?

[Nikanor]

Vote: SnowStorm.

[Nikanor]

I'm boycotting responding to things too.

Nik baby, your location, I think I know where that is

shhh i think my girlfriend might be reading this game

the mantis wagon is horrible.

So I guess your scum read on her is gone?

Also, what about the LLD wagon... We aren't lynching TWL.

The LLD wagon is similarly awful. Mantis was right when she said it was a lazy lynch.

Right now for me the preferred lynch order is Snow > LLD >>> Mantis.
LLD is a lazy lynch and she's probably town but I really don't expect her to contribute anything for the rest of the game so it's not the worst choice. Certainly better than Mantis.

[Nikanor]

I feel like Nikanor could attempt to intentionally drive a mislynch with 2 scum dead. He has illustrated concern about being the sleeper before and has indicated that playing like it was not a possibility would be against his wincon. I don't understand how mantis is a terrible lynch given... It aligns with his reads that he posted yesterday.

Mantisdreamz

- I don't really think that she's scum

This lynch does not align with my reads.
While it's possible that Mantis might be the sleeper, trying to lynch the sleeper at this point is beyond idiotic, and you know that. Do you expect me to sit back and be okay with any lynch because they *

might

* be the sleeper?

She probably isn't the sleeper... that's not why we're lynching her.

Why exactly are you lynching her? Because I don't think you've said.

[Nikanor]

=====================================[]

Vote: Mantisdreamz.

[]=====================================

[Nikanor]

Screen: NotAnAxehole.

[Nikanor]

It's because he thinks he's better than everyone else, obviously.

[Nikanor]

Let's just get this game over with.

Vote: sangres.

[Nikanor]

I already have my screen vote down.

[Nikanor]

I'd 1000x rather be lynched than screened pls.

[Nikanor]

Because the chain is Peacebringer.

[Nikanor]

I'm going to make this real simple. Screen Elusive or I'm killing her.

I'm not sure who you're supposed to be threatening or why anyone would really care if you shot elusive.

[Nikanor]

Because she's bulletproof*, not to be mean.
Also, whom*.

[Nikanor]

Second, I think it's more likely for there to be a scum bullet-proof in a game with a 1-shot vig. I've killed Sangres by the way, so voting him is pointless... He dies when the sun goes down.

Why do I not believe you?

[Nikanor]

okeedokee.

Vote: SnowStorm.

Screen: Porochaz.

[Nikanor]

I don't get the complaints about the sangres vig. Now we actually have to decide on who to kill as a group today. It's a pain, yeah, but healthier for the game.

[Nikanor]

Nik, I am not complaining about the vig in and of itself, I'm complaining about the cowardice of the act. He could have killed anyone in the question mark pile at any time (unless he was specifically instructed to wait to Day 4), but instead opted to use it on confirmed scum and forcing the town to react while keeping his hands clean of any failed vig shot on a bad read.

He didn't get access to it until ckd enabled it yesterday. I'm assuming today was his first chance.

[Nikanor]

Right, I'm currently here now and Mala's currently not, I believe, so this is going to be a fun time.

Anyone voting to screen or lynch Snow - could you elabourate on this?
Especially Nik because I thought Nik was pretty serious about not lynching Snow? Something about similar PMs? When did that change?

While I'm at it,

Screen: Nik

'Well I'm not as completely useless as you thought, therefore you are 100% wrong' is exactly the kind of dicking around with semantics that means I was right but for the wrong reasons.

On the elusive thing: If one place you go smells of shit it's probably a poorly-cleaned public convenience. If every place you go smells of shit you may want to check your shoes.

I don't really have anyone I really

want

to lynch at this point except Nik so I suspect I'll be joining whatever boring lurker compromise wagon isn't on us.

sangres will presumably be far more illuminating postmortem.

Still don't understand why people are so interested in clearing elusive slot on setup spec.

-gm

Vote for me you fucking coward. If you're going to push me for voting Snow without reading my posts to see why, at least have the balls to vote me for your shitty reasons.
All my reads are in one handy post though, so you really have no reason to not look them up. I've also noticed that you've stopped bitching about nobody producing a case on you, and have instead switched to simply ignoring the points. Great job.

[Nikanor]

Vote: THE WRONG LYNCH.

If AP has more shots he can use them every single day.

[Nikanor]

How was the kill stopped last night then?

Who cares?

Elusive has posted a lot and almost none of it has been scumhunting. What's holding me back is I feel like scum would be more concerned about the image they're projecting, meaning I feel like Elusive wouldn't be so hostile and off-putting if they were scum.

I like you.

elusive's not the type to worry about image, I don't think.

If you know a player's meta but try to cast doubt on them, that doesn't inspire confidence.

How dull.

I mean, at least you've actually given a reason, but that's it? Boo hoo, Mala got paranoid about Mantis and was wrong?



I almost feel we should be lynched at this point just to make everyone shut the fuck up about us and move on already. We've become a distraction in some ways, and that's not very helpful.

Vote for me you fucking coward.

lololololololol

If you're going to push me for voting Snow

When did that happen?

without reading my posts to see why,

I have been reading your posts. I still don't see why.

at least have the balls to vote me for your shitty reasons.

lololololololololololololol

I've also noticed that you've stopped bitching about nobody producing a case on you, and have instead switched to simply ignoring the points. Great job.

brb dying of laughter

-gm

You are a fool.

[Nikanor]

A damn fool. :headshake: