Ttyll Mafia - Game Over!

[BNL]

Sorry guys for slacking yesterday, I will be doing my full catch-up today.

[BNL]

Catching up

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Read up to page 12.

By my current notes, Diamond, Gale, and one of BTD/Vax are probably the scum on Wisdom's early wagon, with Eager as scum off the wagon. This means that Wisdom is probably town, and I'm townreading drealmer as well.

[BNL]

I have to go now, will catch up the rest tomorrow.

[BNL]

Read up to page 12.

By my current notes, Diamond, Gale, and one of BTD/Vax are probably the scum on Wisdom's early wagon, with Eager as scum off the wagon. This means that Wisdom is probably town, and I'm townreading drealmer as well.

It seems as though you assumed Wisdom was Town, leading you to the conclusion that this is a scum-driven wagon, then using this to show Wisdom is Town. This is circular reasoning. Why did you rule out the possibilities that Wisdom is scum or that the Wisdom wagon is Town-driven? Explain your reasoning.

P.S. I also claim dank meme.

No Wisdom was slightly scummy, but getting 7 votes in half a day should be a warning sign that this is a mislynch.

Also no circular reasoning, Gale, you, Vax seemed opportunistic in joining Wisdom wagon (Diamond is an independent scumread), which is a sign that both you are scum and Wisdom is town. This doesn't first assume Wisdom is town.

[BNL]

I've finished catching up, and I have some good reads.

Drealmer, Wisdom, Gamma, Vedith are town, and BTD6 is also likely town.

I'm scumreading DS; Gale and Vax may also be scum but need to double check.

VOTE: DiamondSentinel

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You're townreading DS? Why?

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PeregrineV, why aren't you voting?

Udpated reads incoming

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PeregrineV, why aren't you voting?

Udpated reads incoming

Do you still townread BTD6?

No, I've realised my reasons for townreading BTD6 was nonsense, and in fact he's scummy now due to to his push on you.

[BNL]

So what's changed:

BTD6_maker: Initially I thought 679 was town, but I've talked to my neighbours about it and now agree that it isn't. And I really didn't like his push on ABR; the main argument he's using is that ABR is worse than him, but he doesn't seem to actually think ABR is scum, just annoyed at how people are voting him instead of ABR. He wants people to unvote him, rather than convince people that ABR is scum.

Rereading, DS/Gale may be scumbuddies. ISO Diamond, just look at how he responds to Wisdom's and Gale's attacks. I'm also scumreading them both independently of each other, will explain later. Also, if I'm right about this, then Mirhawk is probably town.

Aeronaut's catchup looks town.

I didn't like some of Vaxkiller's posts, but seemingly that's me only.

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VOTE: texcat
Lynch all liars and lying by omission is still lying.

Kid is being far too secretive.

??? Since when did texcat lie?

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I want you to talk to me when you get back because I usually appreciate your contributions to the games we play together.

I still remember that open game one year ago that we won together

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Can someone help me summarise what texcat said about her non-planet neighbourhood being all town? I didn't quite understand what happened.

[BNL]

VOTE: BTD6

What I said in our PT was, "And I still disagree with the premise that one of us four must be scum. It could be true, who knows?"
It also might be that Vedith has some "special" information that there is scum in our neighborhood, but I have no reason to trust him on that.

I can see you disagree with my theory about one scum per planet but I don't see why that's scummy.

Also, can someone explain why, when I realise that ABR is a better vote than me, the Town thing to do is to let myself rather than ABR get lynched?

MOD

:

Activity call on these folks please!

Vedith Nov 07, 04:57pm Nov 10, 09:18am 2 days 1 hour 31
FrankJaeger Nov 08, 02:50am Nov 10, 08:19am 2 days 2 hours 18
Albert B. Rampage Nov 08, 03:01am Nov 10, 12:42am 2 days 10 hours 18

I was V/LA.

Now I'm back.

1v1 me with Wisdom

I'll vote on whichever of the two leading wagons right now, please guys, don't be like the democrats this year, vote.

1v1 me

The game is really slow I haven't had much time to get invested yet. The time will come when the activity picks up.

He doesn't deserve any pity I can tell you

People apparently seem to be voting me because I am "posting nothing of substance". It's true that I haven't had much to say (I have not got any strong reads/opinions on the interactions just yet) but I am at least producing content. I am trying to figure this game out. On the other hand, here are some of ABR's recent posts. A call for a 1v1 (which I don't see as pro-Town) and some very short posts without even a hint that ABR is trying. From what I see, based on the reasons people have for voting me, ABR is a much better vote. It appears as he is just trying to fly under the radar by posting very little.

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

We're 35 pages in, there is zero chance you've had no impressions.

Please. Lynch. This.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. You probably don't understand my playstyle. There is currently a lack of anything concrete at the moment so while I get impressions, they tend to be very weak. (The 35 pages are probably a contributing factor, as I have to skim it) Furthermore, everything (barring role claims) that can be said by Town can easily be faked by scum, and a lot of scummy things can also be said by Town.

Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced that BTD6 is scum now. 35 pages, nothing concrete, very weak impressions, what? And the last sentence is horrible too: towny things can come from scum and scummy things can come from town, so? Are you going to neglect scumhunting altogether?

UNVOTE: DiamondSentinel
VOTE: BTD6_maker

[BNL]

VOTE: BTD6

What I said in our PT was, "And I still disagree with the premise that one of us four must be scum. It could be true, who knows?"
It also might be that Vedith has some "special" information that there is scum in our neighborhood, but I have no reason to trust him on that.

I can see you disagree with my theory about one scum per planet but I don't see why that's scummy.

Also, can someone explain why, when I realise that ABR is a better vote than me, the Town thing to do is to let myself rather than ABR get lynched?

Oh, and to answer this:

You are pushing ABR because people feel that you are of low content, and ABR has even lower content, which is wrong on every level. This is because:

1. You don't even think that having low content is scummy. So by asking people to vote ABR instead of you, you are effectively using their argument on ABR, which you don't even think is true. If you were town, you'd be pushing ABR for reasons you actually think are scum indicative. Instead, you are using the crowd's opinion, which is manipulative and therefore scummy.

2. If you think ABR is scummier than you but people are voting you instead of ABR, then you should be thinking of reasons why they are doing so, for example defending their buddy, rather than telling them they are voting wrongly. This shows me that you are scum and want people to get off you, and also knowing they're town. Why aren't you suspecting people voting you?

The correct thing is of course not to get lynched, but to do either or even both of those things. But you did neither. That's why you're scum.

[BNL]

thats not why people are voting btd6

I respect Aeros vote, but the rest are just following on what he said, and Albert and Bullet have done nothing this game so far as well.

Yes, Yes. That one interaction was weird where someone said you are scum because you haven't done "x", then he does "x" then people jump down his throat for it.

I'm not convinced.

I'm still waiting for more info about Vedith-WQ-texcat-dream

I've done nothing this game?

Is BTD6 town, null, or scum to you?

[BNL]

I guess I'll explain why I have a scumread on Gale (independent of DS):

Vote in 250 seemed opportunistic

I don't like Gale's lack of confidence, as shown in 498. From what I've played with him, Gale is usually quite a confident person, and tunnels a lot. Which isn't really present here. Gale stopped talking much about DS in 565.

I also didn't like his vote switch to Texcat, he really made only one point against texcat. It's too... abrupt for my liking.

[BNL]

I've done nothing this game?

Is BTD6 town, null, or scum to you?

Ok, ok, you have only been here 4 days.

He is Null-town for me

Why is BTD6 town?

[BNL]

Peregrine, why aren't you voting?

[BNL]

Gale's votes are also super horrible, especially the BTD reasoning. And this, I can't even:

Gale is a better lynch than BTD.
Gale is opportunist as fuck. BTD is more likely town.

Sweet

VOTE: Vedith

This just looks like OMGUS to me. Why is Vedith scummy?

[BNL]

Back, catching up now

Hellooooooooo????

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You know what, I want to go here first:

VOTE: Gale Wing Srock

Though I'm not seeing the explanation of Gale/BTD being possible scumbuddies. Explain?

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Hey Vedith, why is BTD town?

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Frank switch vote to BTS, we're gonna lynch him today.

No, No, no, no, no, no, NO. YOU want to end the day when we have YET to hear from White queens and dreamler about the textcat-Vedith interactions?

NO. We have the time and we need to hear more from thsoe people as well as eager before you guys go lynching a townie.

Didnt think about this.
UNVOTE:

Why not vote for one of your other strong scumreads, then?

[BNL]

@Everyone: I'll be V/LA from 18 to 24 of November. That'll start from 17 Nov for most of your time zones. I'll still be able to post, but activity will be reduced.

[BNL]

Hey Vedith, why is BTD town?

The wagon on him just formed too easily for my liking.
The problem with BTD is he doesn't look at the whole picture and looks scummy for his thought process.

BTD6: The scums wagon.

It's probably not scum driven but yeah scum will be on it.

These two don't go together

[BNL]

Vedith, who's scum in your sisterhood?

[BNL]

Vedith, who's scum in your sisterhood?

Do you not read the game?
Why are you asking questions if you have no interest in actually knowing?

Let me rephrase: Who do you think is scum in your neighbourhood?

I am indeed interested in how you respond to this, what makes you think otherwise?

[BNL]

These two don't go together

That's because 1 is saying that BTD is town, 1 is my view on alignment of others.
*Claps slowly for BNL*

You think his wagon is town because it grew too quickly, but isn't scum driven?

[BNL]

So Vedith, you think texcat is scum, correct?

I also want to point out Dreal has both altered a lot and missed a lot.
@Texcat- confirm once more it's accurate before I do a post over it.

Then why are you throwing shade in Drealmer here?

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Why is btd at L-1 I'm not understanding

He's not anymore.

As to why he was, ISO him.

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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=28979
Here's a lovers game where wisdom essentially took advantage of AtE

Why do you suddenly post this? Is his play similar here?

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Stop sheeping BTD6

Are you addressing BTD6 or someone else?

I think he meant stop sheeping people onto BTD6

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Feeling a lot better about Vax now.

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EagerSnake, tell me honestly, have you read the whole game? Or at least skimmed it?

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Actually, might as well

VOTE: eagerSnake

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Yeah, I'm scumreading him. Explanation coming soon.

Hint: Its not because he's lurking.

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I didn't like 274, it's a useless question. I can see arguments for this being NAI though.

But see 277, I didn't like snake's "nothing" stance. That's scummy.

What's worse though is that his DS tunnel is super fake. All he's been saying this game is DS is scum, but has rarely taken anyone else into consideration. Especially today, he said nothing about BTD6 at all. Even if he wasn't scumreading BTD6, he coulve defended him, or even explicitly null-read him by discrediting points against him.

All I want to say is that I can't believe that Snake's tunnel on DS is genuine.

[BNL]

WTH at the signing post comment.

Tbf he backed it up, but that post was really late.

[BNL]

People are voting me without much of a case,
Being misled by their Wisdom; what a disgrace!
They accuse me of lurking, but lurkers are all around,
I named ABR, but other examples abound.
Then they accuse me of deflection, when all I did
Was reveal to them where true lurkers hid.
There is one last thing to tell you that I believe:
Do not blindly trust your Wisdom; Wisdom can deceive.

[/ircher]

nobody accused you of lurking

Anyone want to vote BTD with me?
His lurking is scum behaviour.

Aeronaut, I think it was pretty obvious that post 925 was a joke, and that has been pointed out many times already.

[BNL]

Why is "If Eager's scum, his flip will give up nothing" a reason against lynching him?

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VOTE: BTD
No reason, just doing it for fun.

Um, what?

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Vedith, what is drealmer's scum motivation to miss out time stamps?

I don't get why that is so big of a deal.

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That wasn't what I meant to ask, I think it was something about falsely claiming to not read posts due to ninja, but whatever

[BNL]

Feeling a lot better about Vax now.

What made you feel better about him

I liked his push on Vedith

[BNL]

For the love of God, please don't lynch anyone without my supervision.

OK, this feels town.

[BNL]

That wasn't what I meant to ask, I think it was something about falsely claiming to not read posts due to ninja, but whatever

I don't understand your question, what ninja?
Also when did I call Dreal scum? You think I have him as scum, correct? Since you are asking what scum motivation he had.

Sorry not ninja, the things about Drealmer's timestamps. (I thought it was him getting ninja'd).

I'm really confused by that incident because you claimed to be townreading drealmer but the way you question him feels like you're scumreading him rather dissuading him from voting you.

[BNL]

So far, from what I have analysed, my top scumread is Vedith (who retained my weak scumread due to the horrible vote on me).
I may vote DS as well (a very weak scumread).
I will mostly vote anyone if absolutely necessary (apart from possibly Wisdom, a very weak Townread, and Gale, a nullread but one on which I have read up and analysed). If necessary to vote Gale, I will do a bit more analysis to sort whether he is nullTown or nullscum before voting.

Wait

Are you null on mostly everyone?

[BNL]

I guess it's time to get onto a wagon with traction, snake wagon isn't happening, and besides, I think I'll give him the chance to town up.

UNVOTE: eagerSnake[/vote]

I like both the BTD6 and Vedith lynches, and maybe also Gale Wing Srock. I would really HATE a Wisdom lynch, and I'm not really confident on DS anymore. Will reread to see who I like best.

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UNVOTE: eagerSnake

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^I'm not sure if that's allowed...

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So I've thought about it and I think I like the Vedith lynch most. I don't like how he was attacking a townread, and the BTD vote was

BTD is towning up in his last few posts, I quite like them except for the part I pointed out earlier, and I can accept the "VI rather than scum" argument. Though I'd still be happy to lynch him.

Gale read is stale, not very confident on it anymore, but still acceptable.

VOTE: Vedith

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Spoiler: Vedith attack on Drealmer

For a start you replied to my post here 6mins before posting in the hood.
So that's a lie. Texcat and WQ to confirm.

Secondly I don't care about your vote on me.
You make it seem like you are powerful and scary but the reason I'm not answering your pointless question is because it do not care of your opinion on me and I do not care if you vote me.

You don't know the post I mad where I asked about the hoods?
Where you answered both questions ignored the hood question and then posted in the hood? Then said you posted in the hood first?
Yeah okay, I'm desperate.

You seem angry, is it because I'm not worried over you?
Wrong person to try and push into being cooperative with, kiddo.

You often half type up posts?
Your post in the hood was in response to Texcat which was 2mins before my post (your response was 6 after mine of corse)
You were half way into typing that, responded to 2 out of 3 questions from me, then finished it off?
Nice work.
You are really triggered over this situation...

VOTE: BTD
No reason, just doing it for fun.

How blatant of you. It's right above you. You can read it. So can everyone else. Why is your trolling so bad? I had a full sentence, you took that sentence, cut it into 1/3 and twisted the words. It's clearly there. You baffle me. *yawn*

triggered? no, it's just really fucking dumb!

Cool story and all. Caught out in a lie still

Can't you tell from Drealm's post style that that's exactly what she does? It's pretty obvious to me.

The times don't match.

I post with 3 questions
You post 4mins later in the hood
Dreal posts 3mins later answering 2 out of 3 questions
Dreal posts 6mins later in hoon responding to you

Can you explain how it's obvious there?
On this one situation I mean, do you believe within 180seconds she typed half a response to you, answered 2 of my questions and missed the hood question?

It's obvious to me that Drealm takes some time to make her posts and could easily miss new posts.

Where was the time taken on this one though?
I am correct with the times though, right?
180 seconds from your post in the hood and Dreal responding to my post, right?
Also what do you mean by missed new post? Dreal responded to the post with my question, it was all in 1.

"I don't see you posting in our hood... Why are you concerned that no one is posting there while making no attempt yourself?" - I saw this after I posted in the hood I think. But again, I don't even understand what you're getting at or what matters? I'm not lying about anything.

Are my times correct?
Why did you not see that but saw the rest of my post... that's what I don't get.
You replied to the same post you are claiming to not have seen before posting in the hood.
I can't get my head around it.

I mean, you are claiming to have missed 1 section of my post.
Typed half your post to Texcat and your response to me within 180 seconds then finished off to Texcat.
Then responded with the other half of your message to Texcat in 360 seconds.
I'm stumped.... help me understand it and maybe I'll be more helpful to you.

Wait, you also went away for a few minutes while posting to me and to Texcat? Was this during the 3mins and 6mins of posting?
I'm even more confused on the timings now.

Thanks for helping with this though I just want to understand.

My concern here is that it looks like you told a lie (maybe, maybe not) and it was a small lie (again, maybe, maybe not) about something that could be considered as trying to look proactive.
Now, what I mean here is that it looked like you were trying to look productive in both of your hoods and questioning why people were not posting there when you wasn't posting yourself.
Now, after I brought this up, you posted just after in the hood and said you posted before evening knowing I posted about it.
However, your explanation of the page not scrolling down enough (above the reply box, that reply box that you typed in after reading 2/3 of my post) is pretty belivable. I now understand that it was a simple mistake.
Phew glad that's resolved.

thnking more....It's also possible that I read the post (or just part of a post that I thought I'd read all of), typed a partial response to it, went away, came back and finished the response and proof-read and thought I had responded to all points and didn't think about having not because it wasn't in my partial type-up. I really don't remember. I do think I don't think I saw it (and the not scrolled down seems more possible?), but, again, it's all muddled and seems insignificant.

Oh yeah this explains a lot.
Sorry for the worry there Dreal. Personally I hate asking 3 questions because people miss the 3rd off so easily.
Hope we can be friends again.

All that's left if the timing.
For my peace of mind...

Within the 180 seconds of posting a reply to me, half a post to Texcat, how long do you think you walked away from your PC for?

So the way Vedith approached Drealmer here looks more like sorting him rather than getting him off himself. Which contradicts his town read on Drealmer.

[BNL]

Sorry guys, not lynching Wisdom.

VOTE: BTD6

[BNL]

though 2 days is not THAT much. I've seen wagons happening within an hour. Find it in yourselves to vote actual scum with me.

And was that lynch on town or on scum?

[BNL]

WQ, tell me how 815 is town.

[BNL]

I think Wisdom is town, but I'm also townreading Vax, Drealmer, Abr and Gamma.

There HAS to be scum on the wagon. WQ/DS contains at least one scum, possibly two.

[BNL]

Also please get off the Wisdom wagon

[BNL]

Let's note that Wisdom has >100 more posts than the next highest poster
Part of my scumread on Wisdom is based on flooding the game, FYI

And that is scummy because?

[BNL]

DS, why do you want to have a claim from Wisdom?

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VOTE: White Queens

I'm now willing to lynch a null read if it's a counterwagon to Wisdom, and this one is falling down.

Can this happen?

[BNL]

You just said it's "solidly town"

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VOTE: White Queens

I'm now willing to lynch a null read if it's a counterwagon to Wisdom, and this one is falling down.

Can this happen?

Actually I take this back as it's stupid, my lynch pool will become more than number scum there are so I will become easily manipulated.

My vote stands because I'm slightly leaning scum there.

[BNL]

Actually nevermind I don't want to do that.

VOTE: BTD6

[BNL]

DS, why do you want to have a claim from Wisdom?

I feel like forcing a claim could make him play more conservatively. I talked to Gamma about this in our PT, but we need him to reduce his ego or else we will have to PL him.

...

Are you just referring to how his reads differ from yours?

[BNL]

This is my first game with Wisdom (not counting two marathons I hosted), so can someone tell me more about his play style so I can understand what's going ty

[BNL]

Well, thank you for moving off Wisdom onto BTD6.

This is a reminder that

BTD6 is at L-1, anyone who hammers without a claim and without intent is a scumclaim and will be lynched next.

[BNL]

^gws dies tomorrow

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Seriously though, Gale and WQ are scum.

Will read this later.

[BNL]

OK caught up, I've nothing much to say, except that I don't quite get why Vax end of day posts are scummy?

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Why was the game over? After scum get a kill it would be 4v3

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It's amazing how obvscum keep failing to get lynched again and again.

Talking about WQ

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No big surprises in scumteam tbh

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Honestly though the early LyLo was a nasty surprise

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Why was I killed?

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And with the survivor claim with three other scum people had to assume this was lylo

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If the reason to why is what I think it is, then I reassure my broth read... I think

This... didn't look like a scum slip to any of you?

[BNL]

The vig shots weren't that bad. D1 and D2 lynches and vigs all landed on VT

[BNL]

And I wonder how much confusion there would be if I was killed and vigged N1

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Ircher, thanks for modding, btw. This is one of the most enjoyable games I had, even though I was killed N1

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Will this series be continued? I'd like to participate in the sequel if there is one

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drealmerz7's fakeclaim was epic btw. Really had me fooled for a while... but for future reference, the site meta is to lynch survivor claims (which is different on other sites afaik?)

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(!!!)

And the list was all town

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Also I thought that this was going to be a 2017 game be we're in time to make 2016 nominations

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And I should mention that my message targets weren't townreads but unlikely NKs, which would've worked well if not for Gale's fakeclaim, and the early LyLo.

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And talking about which, were me, BTD and Gale the only people to send dead messages? I thought every townie (and even scum) would go that route

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texcat why didn't you claim?

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[quote="In post 4434, Wisdom"][/quote]
Yeah WQ and ES were obvscum even in D2

And PVv even confirmed that the WQvES D3 had to be SvS

Though the early LyLo was questionable, the only thing I didn't like, it felt like I was cheated