BIOCHEMISTRY - game over, finally, it's only been 5 months

[Vecna]

Wait seriously? you'd be the direct opposite of me then.

Yeah!

I get reads better when people are scumreading me.

Challenge accepted, get scumread on

VOTE: ser Arthur

I hereby declare the matter settled.

[Vecna]

Spiffeh seems to hold Marq in a high regard for his play, he points out Marq has made the worst post so far, then changes his mind pretty quick. If Spiffeh was town and felt that Marq already had a bad/scummy post I don't think he'd let him get off that easy

Nice post. Townpoint for this train of thought. I love me some good meta cases

[Vecna]

Sakura I am mixed on you, your first comment gave me a sense that is something you would think as town. Knowing our history, not too unlikely. However your question about Glork pressure seems silly from you.

I kind of expect you as scum to focus on me so that I townread you too.

Want to talk?

~Rick (Fire), the Leader

1) My pressure comment was a rehtoerical question i've always believed it's not good to say you're voting someone out of pressure coz that kinda screws up the reaction test, if you still that can achieve something go ahead, i'll read him in my own way.

2)Wait woot, where did that even come from xD

3)I don't mind but, didn't you just said scum me would focus on you so that you townread me, why are you trying to drag me into a conversation with you if this is supposedly the case?

Using the word rhetorical in your defense. Hmmm

[Vecna]

Lol this is garbage

its actually a post.
not garbage.

i got you some glasses because i think you need them:

This is the highest quality post of the thread so far.

Taking notes about how people are dealing with this spiffeh situatuon. Interesting that vifam finds something to take issue with with spiffehs turnaround, then does the exact same thing after an explenation. Cute.

[Vecna]

marquis its going to be really hard not to buddy you this game.

id feel worse about it but you already complimented me once so i think you probably deserve it.
(:

Gorkington, have i allready told you how much i like your haircut?

[Vecna]

Glork what are your thoughts on the game sofar?


And in fire we trust, he shall be given power to lead.
-Rem (Ali)

Alisae is everywhere. We're gonna have to hydra one of threes days

[Vecna]

Creatures start seems pretty agitated compared to what im used from seeing from him.

[Vecna]

Can someone explain this SAD wagon? Or are we still in the hookworm stage?

[Vecna]

Silly autocorrect

[Vecna]

Ok who is the easiest to read based on tone here

Hyper happy vecna surely

[Vecna]

dont be so nervous vifam.
its not like im trying to manipulate you right now.
(:

Yeah lets save that for day 2 at the earliest.

[Vecna]

Tier list

Sakura, Yoshi, Creature
Gork, RemRam, RickAndrea, Vifam, Vecna, Marquis
MoI, Majiffy, kuro, beeboy
Spiffeh, Steven
Voices

Tier lists on page10, damn.

[Vecna]

she was much more on the attack the last time we were playing together tho

Funnily I've been thinking the exact same thing about you. Hyper active vifam is not something I've seen from town vifam.

Welcome to the world of awesome generalisations based on n=1

[Vecna]

Haiii Maria!!!!

Hai my cute little yoshi <3
~Andrea

Wait this "in townleader rick" mentality is coming from Maria or fb? Inquiring minds need to know

[Vecna]

Okay, I'll lurk until I get a decent townread.

Just wondering, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being "I care a lot" how much do you care about this game?
-Rem (Ali)

What would you rate if you definitely want to influence the game and win?

Bruh I'm not giving you your answer.
-Rem (Ali)

Can you please not use this attitude?

[Vecna]

VOTE: Rem&Ram

Too many new faces

Vifam town
Markee town
Spiff town
Yoshi town
Sakhan town

I haven't played in forever

Hey there sailor, come here often?

~ObvTitus

Oooh oooh oooh can we get into a shouting match later?

Don't know you, first impression is im not gonna like you.

[Vecna]

Okay, let's kill Rem Ram with fire.

Put your vote there, then, instead of sitting with an RVSy SAD vote cheering the wagon from the sidelines.

2nd post comforting suspicions. This feels very much like a SCUMLORD

VOTE: majoffy

[Vecna]

I've seen other multi-neighborhood games where scum have won by pushing that same narrative and it's absolutely inane, not to mention it undermines trust in the mod to remain impartial when rolling pre-game.

Since when do mods not design setups and then only roll to determine whom gets what role. Randomized setup design is not something I've seen yet. Also this feels way to agitated for no reason at all

[Vecna]

This is offtopic but like arrogant mafia player is such a weird gimmick to have like is it really that fun to pretend you're a genius on a roleplaying game

Is more fun when you don't have to pretend.

Me and my buddy whose name i forgot but whom I'm actively buddying know all about this.

[Vecna]

There's too many people who have thrown side shade on Voices but refuse to commit to the wagon. Recipe for early scum catch with scum trying to divert attention elsewhere.

I approve of this sentiment.

[Vecna]

I'm just saying the web you weave makes little sense

Voices is scum for ???
SAD is bussing Voices

Meanwhile <12 hrs ago "I don't think SAD looks scummy".

12 hours and not a whole hell of a lot besides one off-hand comment about how "SAD's recent posting doesn't look good", with no reference to anything in particular.

Step it up, Vifam. This is why I have sheep and you don't.

Well at least you also have some posts i can make love to

[Vecna]

Please don't call me sweetie man

Ok bubblegum

[Vecna]

SAD's read on me continues to be bullshit

What am I supposed to have "followed up" on?

The reasons I asked those questions should be abundantly clear, but you ignore that and do anything to paint me in a scummy light

SAD town reads are no longer acceptable

Yet hes obv town.

[Vecna]

Oh man failed opportunity to say spiffy instead of stiffy


Live and learn.

UNVOTE: majiffy

Even if ur scum i wanna hang you last.

Declaring intention to buddy this slot as well

[Vecna]

Dayne there can only be one mysteriously awesome town leader in this game and that's me bucko so find a new shtick, Captain Jiffy's back in town.

The 2 of you, me and titus in one game.

This is gonna produce fireworks.

Maybe we need to hold elections

[Vecna]

Leaning town on Spiffeh and beeboy.

Rick and Andrea and Rem and Ram and still and wagons.

I approve of creatures reads, hurray (both in this poat and the one above it)

[Vecna]

SAD's read on me continues to be bullshit

What am I supposed to have "followed up" on?

The reasons I asked those questions should be abundantly clear, but you ignore that and do anything to paint me in a scummy light

SAD town reads are no longer acceptable

Yet hes obv town.

uhhh I don't think so Infact he's a scum lean for me care to say what makes him obv town in little bullet proof points for mee
~Andrea

Because hes part of my buddy-block. Back off

[Vecna]

So I’ll be catching up over the course of the day but wanted to drop some thoughts …

I brought up in our Neighborhood pre-game I think a Mass-claim of neighborhoods is very Pro-Town. I know from my phone skimming that there has been some discussion. I will say I have a scum read on Vecna pre-game for his ludicrous stance in our Neighborhood that mass-claiming of Neighborhood make-up is Pro-Scum.

I’ll also say that anyone who did any research into Organic and Inorganic Chemistry and Anti’s recent UPick Science game should understand that odds are overwhelimingly favorable that one of the four Neighborhoods is All-Town and anyone who hasn’t shown up in a Neighborhood by now is probably Mafia not wanting to have to fake being Town on two fronts.

My neighborhood has four members so far – myself, Vecna, Creature and Marquis.

VOTE: Vecna

Good place to start while I get read up …

Nope nope nope, we stick to this argument in our neighbourhood. My current gimmick doesnt allow srz bznz posts in main thread.

Shoo bird, shoooooo

[Vecna]

Creature, lets form a secret club where we only invite people we want to buddy ok?

MoI clearly isnt getting invited

[Vecna]

Who said anything about a townblock?

[Vecna]

Its not a town-block, its a buddy circle

[Vecna]

Yes we have, but you replaced out that game

[Vecna]

Oh yeah

That game was boring as fuck man

I sure had fun that game.

[Vecna]

Vifam, are you a naughty naughty?

Tell it to mommy, what have you been upto?

[Vecna]

But let's be real is there ever a time when I didn't scumread MoI we are just not compatible people at least in the way we approach the game so this might be one of his crazy thinking style.

More stuff we can bond over

[Vecna]

I regret even posting in my neighborhood I didn't realize neighborhood members are not known till after posting zzzz.

Would've been easier to pull gambits but alas I shall still find a day.

People are really scumreading this? Welcome to my buddy circle SAD.

[Vecna]

Spoiler: catch-up

Does this help the Rem and Ram scum case at all, or no?

Yeah

I'm getting noob town vibes from the thread which is why I wanted SAD to elaborate on his read there. But I understand if the neighborhood is a different story.

What was unsatisfactory about their responses in the neighborhood?

The heads of RAM are just melodramatic and fake. One head already accused the other head of lying. They also said not to run up SAD because he'll just get townread.

Sakura don't make me regret town reading you so early

But townreadnig me early is the best way to make me produce alignment relevant content!

Sakura what do you think of SAD?

I think that i dont know why he townreads or scumreads X or Y.

But what is your read on SAD? For good measure, Rem too?

For the record, I share a neighborhood with R&R. What they have been posting in there as well as here does not seem to come from town. Their hydra discordance comes across as unnatural and attempting to discredit the other head (in our hood) also comes across as unnatural.

Oh I have to deal with this bullshit. You're probs town for wanting me ran up like this.
Wowie, I didn't know playful behavoir is scummy.
Okay, let's out the whole neighborhood while we're at it, it's not like scum doesn't know this already because there is most likely 1 scum in here: Vifam, This Hydra, VoT Hydra, and BYF.
BTW reason why I SR BYF is a lot of their posts seem really fake in the hood.
-Rem (Ali)

You are not being run up for playful behavior.

VOTE: Titusdra

I am more used to Titus coming out of the gates pressuring people to get reads, this Titus just feels so buddy buddy and I don't like it.

*glares* i had real life.

Scum Butts {Titusdra, Rem and Ram}

In what world do you think two scum are in the same neighborhood together?
-Rem (Ali)

Interesting deflection.

Like who actually gains anything by knowing that?

If you scumread Rem and Ram, why are you voting the counter?

Looked like a counterwagon to SAD tbqh

They are likely both scum. If you engage in counterwagons theory, please use all the wagons.

Plus the Titus/ThinkBig hydra "waiting" to see how the SAD wagon goes while not hesitating to get on Rem leaves a bad taste in my mouth, especially since she seemed to scumread Rem specifically cuz of a discussion in the neighborhood about SAD

I couldn't push it because I was VLA. Plus, I wanted to see if SAD and RR made sense as buddies.

Alisae why do you think Sakura is scum?

-Rick

Do you have any scum reads atm?

Not really, i dont feel like putting much effort into the game atm.

I should probably just sheep Majiffy.

VOTE: R&R

Because this sequence of events is scummy.
-Rem (Ali)

That is the least scummy thing about Sakura's recent posting.

Hey while we're stating the obvious, we're also all playing mafia, pretty sure

You are making it incredibly hard to shout at you, and I even had a gif.

Btw, Vecna and MoI seemed towny in the neighborhood (though I won't pull a randomidget).

Marquis not so much.

Are you scum?

I am kinda frustrated that a) my scumreads are basically just theowing shade claiming I am bussing without arguing why I am scum in the first place. I am extremely disappointed in Vifam because I doubt they are scum and doing it. b) I have little reads outside of the popular ones. I wanted to gif fight Majiffy.

I want to lynch in SAD/RR.
I want to sort RA, Beeboy, Sakura, Vecna, MOI.

Yes, please do sort me, but try not to base it too much around my current play (I know how youre bound to respond to it for meta-reasons). My day2 is probably going to be more to your type of liking though, if youre town this game. All part of the plan. Shame since having a townread from you early is usually kind of usefull.

[Vecna]

Neighborhood Tracking

MoI, Vecna, Creature, Marquis
Firebringer, ???, ???, ???
VoT, Rem and Ram, BigYoshiFan, Vifam

That also leaves Spiffeh, SAD, Majiffy, Sakura, Gorkington, Kuror0 (who?), beeboy, and Stephen Q unslotted.

--

Here’s a first for me – I’m reading Rick and Andrea as Town for Firebringer’s contributions. Especially the call for the mass Neighborhood claim at 59. And for 130 which shows the level of insight I would expect from him as a Defcon Spiffeh partner.

Also slotting Gorkington as an early Town read. Gork looks like Town Gork from Children’s and Defcon and that’s good enough for the moment.

Early Scum read on SAD for what I see as forcing casualness. Defcon SAD lashed out at people scum-reading him Day 1. Thus the “I get better reads when scum-read” rings very false. And the scum read on Yume at 275 smells like day old rotting fish. The R-Twins get some townpoints for 311 pointing this very thing out.

Oh and then we get 367. Cool. Makes my decision easy …

VOTE: SAD

Not a fan of Spiffeh’s early content. Am in agreement with his SAD read obviously. Will need to look back at Defcon versus Thing to see if what I am seeing is potentially alignment indicative.

And Vecna’s “Look at my cool schtick” posting stance doesn’t change my initial Neighborhood read as scum too.

--

i know you were on other side of sad in defcon, but finding his opinions disagreeable/his tone weird isnt really all that compelling to me.

Gork talk to me about SAD. I don’t think his play here is anything like Defcon where all of us were Town. There he was much more reactive to suspicion / pressure. Here I sense he’s putting on a “Ho hum, look how good I am” mask. I’d go so far as to say he’s being much less vitriolic and much more jokey agreeable here …

and the people who act like it is and toot their horn when they were right about reads are still bad because they couldnt work with town to get shit done.

Are you saying SAD is a Radiant Cowbell alt (or vice versa)?

--

Honestly I encourage using neighborhoods in this set up. There are 17 players, 4 scum, 4 neighborhoods. There is most likely one scum in each hood. It is easier to scum hunt in a pool of 4/5 than in a pool of 17.

Yeah this is probably Titus scum. Any cursory investigation into Anti’s Mod meta shows he subverts this pretty much every time. One of Inorganic / Organic had three separate Town Neighborizors with no scum Neighborizors. UPIck Science had an all Town three person Neighborhood in a 13 player Mini.

Booooo

[Vecna]

Lmao I called MoI scumreading me in scumchsr before this game even began or got role PMs I love it so predictable.

hmmm I never like these type of posts though.

[Vecna]

Ser Arthur Dayne + Rem and Ram + Rick and Andrea + Steven Quartz scumteam?

You know how hard I would buss Steven quartz if this were true?

-Rick

Nonsensical defense post based on thing at all

[Vecna]

Titus can you explain your RR scum read/point to me where you did

I have faith that you will actually follow through on this request unlike everyone else I've asked

Hoping you'll obv-town it up this game so you can be part of the buddy circle.

[Vecna]

<------------

Vote SAD

In other news guess who doesn't deserve all the town reads he's getting?'

Gorkington

Hmmm too bad, guess your invitation has been put on indefinite hold.

[Vecna]

Tier list

Sakura, Yoshi, Creature
Gork, RemRam, RickAndrea, Vifam, Vecna, Marquis
MoI, Majiffy, kuro, beeboy
Spiffeh, Steven
Voices

SAD why you reading Gork and Vecna as leaning town?

The only reason this is a reasonable question is because its not a full-blown townread

[Vecna]

Again gonna say Firebringer doesn't play like this as town.

Would like Titus' input on this. Can you compare it to your bastard hydra experiences with FB titus? I knew I ended up sr'ing your slot that game.

[Vecna]

Oh all posts today are

~ObvTitus

Not there yet im afraid

[Vecna]

some of the rhetoric in this game is getting really boring btw.

you can keep saying "y nobody vote person" "omg wagon not happening i am sad" and "this person is scummzz post bad scum wowow"
but its not going to change anything and is padding the content of the game.

i get im a total hypocrite because im a jokey fuck who posts too much.
but lets not drive this game's pagecount to 100 on absolutely nothing of value.

i dont have the same kind of time that i used to and if i get apathetic im going to be useless. please dont get me there.

Quoting post as further reasons for townread on slot.

Invitation to buddy circle has been sent. Check your mail.

[Vecna]

Dunno i got scummy vibes from Vecna's attack on Jiffy.
What has Vecna done in the Neighborhood? @Creature.

Questioned MOI on his strong desire for a mass-claim of neighbourhood participants.

[Vecna]

Dunno i got scummy vibes from Vecna's attack on Jiffy.
What has Vecna done in the Neighborhood? @Creature.

Also, my attack was based on his earlier posts while rereading. He is a townlean for me.

[Vecna]

MoI's 593 reads bad so many red flags for starters why is he outting the neighborhood and

second of all why is he voting someone before a catchup on such a weak logic as having a differing opinion

and generalizing scum in such a broad way ("I think every scum wouldn't wanna use the neighborhood, and anyone who opposes it must be scum!")

And now that I have more time to post about this … what we have here I see as a classic scummy pre-emptive post.

Let’s start with the inference that outing Neighborhoods is scummy. It’s not. It is rock solid Town play. Inorganic and Organic Chemistry and Anti’ UPick Science clearly show that Anti is not going to evenly spread the 4 scum between them evenly. So one of the Neighborhoods is going to be All Town. Secondarily keeping the make-up of the Neighborhoods “secret” is not going to keep information from scum regardless of the distribution. Scum are going to know all the Town players posting in Neighborhoods even if they choose to not post (like SAD). So giving Town a full slate of knowledge about the Neighborhood makeup and who isn’t posting there is evens the playing field.

Next let’s move to the point that scum are going to avoid the Neighborhoods – damn straight if anyone is they will. There is no Pro-Town motivation for not posting and sorting in the Neighborhoods. Period. So anyone not posting there is scum who want to minimize the amount of threads they can be scum-hunted in or VI Town.

Lastly note the bolded above – SAD as Town should have no clue the depth of the discussion in the PT between myself and Vecna to judge the level of the logic of why I am finding Vecna scummy. Vecna’s stance in the PT boiled down to two points ..

1. It will “keep scum in the dark”.
2. There might be some super sekrit mechanics that mass-claiming would help scum to activate.

Point 1 is clearly wrong for all the reasons I posted above. Point 2 doesn’t align at all with how Anti has shown to use mechanics in Inorganic Chemstry, Organic Chemsitry or UPIck Science. And I explained in some depth in the PT about how I looked (or played in) over those games and how they showed that a Neighborhood claim was Pro-Town.

Vecna’s reasons for opposing the mass-claim don’t stand up to scrutiny. Thus he’s scummy.

And yet to this point you have completely ignored my last post on the matter in our PT. Extrapolating your one game of the same moderator is no guarantee for this setup. And you just outted our entire neighbourhood without us giving you permission, OR you finishing the discussion, OR countering any of my valid concerns.

Using flavours to activate abilities is a thing in plenty of recent games ive played, and it gave scum a benefit every single time. How can you know there is no ability that activates a vig or some other type of (scum) utility? And how have you given us this great benefit by outing us now?

The smart play would have been to gather more information on the setup first, and then decide whether to mass-claim or not. Just forcing your opinion on everyone, without any knowledge whatsoever about the setup, just because -you think- thats how a mod designs his setups is either extremely irrational or driven by other reasoning/desires.

Good thing is it does give us the option to insta-lynch your ass if anyone flips with an ability that is activated by knowledge of pt composition.

(And there goes my desire to have a different type of day1 for once.)

[Vecna]

@MoI: I'm not sure about the neighborhood thing they are based on Nucleic Acids, Lipids, Carbohydrates, and Proteins right? Back in Tarot there were also neighborhoods based off elements (Wind, Water, etc) and Cabd mentioned that there could be scum abilities that were dependant on their target's element (granted there was, like one, and a couple of town PRs had that restriction too), and i rather err on the side of caution regarding outing much info because after the neighborhood's are outed all it takes is a scum shot to figure out what type is everyone there.
Why do you think it's a good idea to out that information?

Scum already know who is in every neighborhood.

One neighborhood was completely outed I believe.
There is no benefit to hiding the information.

Not anymore, no. But just be reminded that this decision was not reached by common consensus but was forced on us by 2 certain individuals.

[Vecna]

anti probably isnt going to punish people for using neighborhoods?

Okay, choose one of Rem and Ram, Rick and Andrea or Ser Arthur Dayne.

We lynch them and Day 1's done.

okay yeah.
im getting more annoyed about this.
how about you explain literally any read on there.
because i just isodived your R&A read and it was literally nothing.

There very well might be a reason why the knowledge of whom is in what neighbourhood isnt in the startup thread though?

[Vecna]

How can you believe much less be certain that Creature has reads at all with the Reasonably Rational vote?

Why are you acting like this is a big deal

It was obviously a joke

Knowing creature (and him recently playing a game with reasonably rational), it probably wasnt a joke

[Vecna]

How many people would support a vecna wagon right now?

-Rick

oooooh

[Vecna]

beeboy is a good candidate for scum

PEdit: @Gorkington do you have any scum reads currently?

[Vecna]

VOTE: Vecna

-Rick (Fire)

I see you're really gearing up for something here, was there any other reason besides how I reacted to Majiffy? Because if this is the sole reason, id like you to realize that my initial attack was after reading only ~3 of their initial posts or so, before reading the rest which were pretty decent at conveying town-allignment.

[Vecna]

Vecna probably isn't that bad of a lynch either tbqh

Reason?

[Vecna]

Vecna's vote pattern looks like he's pretending to be haha laidback town lol and it really feels like he's forcing it so yeah that's a good wagon

disregard previous question

[Vecna]

Tier list

Yoshi, Creature, Vecna
Sakura, Gork, Vifam, Marquis, Majiffy
MoI, kuro, RickAndreas, RemRam
Spiffeh, Steven, beeboy
Voices

Since Maria asked why I TR the slot; posting that appears honest, both with the "please scumread me" playstyle and a bunch of other things ive quoted. All of it resonates very well with what im thinking as well at that same point while rereading, and just shows a clear town thought pattern to me.

And these reads are only icing on the cake (I actually really like his analysis on creature, and it fills in some missing puzzle pieces for me to analyze his play). I agree allmost the entirety of these reads and the placing, allthough im not sure why Voices is at the bottom.

[Vecna]

MoI's town

Would be lovely if 8 other players proxy their vote to me but ~convincing~ people is hard work.

It's not that hard you just need to learn to shout at them and demean their abilities to play the game until they give in.

How many people would support a vecna wagon right now?

-Rick

Not voting there but I'm not going to argue against it.

Cuz like, I really feel like Creature is scum here.
-Ali

Yes that is the scum that was on your wagon

VOTE: Vecna

This is a good CW to Creature.

VOTE: SAD

This vote makes me... SAD

He made a pretty convincing argument on why I was "scum" in DEFCON too (I will not spoiler this so everyone can witness how garbage MoI reads me):

Thanks for making me scroll past that without reading it instead of just spoilering it,

dick.

Guess I need to up my buddying game

[Vecna]

i am now apathetic towards this game

Well get un-apathetic.

Vote Creature or Vecna.

Reminder to not let Majiffy live to MyLo/LyLo unless mechanically confirmed.

Oh like you'll be anywhere near LYLO

You have any reason to be so intent on lynching me, besides my initial impression on you?

[Vecna]

I will tell you a short story Cheetory.

I used to be a young paladin once who played mafia by the rule book, answering questions, asking my own questions, trying to figure out people, interacting with people, and acted very pro-town all around. But over time, I noticed I continued to be mislynched all the time for some reason! It got so bad that it made me dislike this game and the people. Why put so much effort when I am still getting mislynched by people who barely put any effort. And some people have the AUDACITY to tell me that the way I put so much effort indicated I was trying too hard or that I was trying to trick people by looking pro town? It made me dislike this game! So I took a long hiatus from this game. But then I spectated a game where a player, who was one of the few players I met when I first started to play, played spectacularly and was able to catch all the scum super quickly. It brought an inspiration within me! I realize what first drew me to mafia in the first place. Catching scum! So I decided to the game. But I decided that being a pleasant pro-town super helpful player was not the way to go. And at the end of the day, I actually don't care too much who wins, etc. This is a game after all! The point is to have fun with it. And what is fun for me is correctly identifying scum. Which is why I still play - to correctly identify scum. If I deem something as worthless it's not because I'm trying to be a jerk or big meanie. It's literally that it does not help me with my goal - finding scum. You will notice I ask very little of other people and mostly play as an observer who commentates on other interactions. That's because I know I refuse/dodge a lot of questions myself, it's not fair to then turn around and expect other people to answer questions from me. What fascinates and interests me is the little interactions that people have, and the fun and satisfaction I get is from correctly identifying who is trying to manipulate and trick others. You might be thinking at this point,

mastina

SAD, why don't you just observe? Simply put, I get no satisfaction from being right as a spectator, because

I

am not in any danger myself. It's easy for someone sitting on the high seat to see the full gladiator arena. They are sitting in their comfy chair away from the blood and gore! But to be inside the gladiator arena and still be able to tell which people are on your side wanting to help you out and which people belong to Cesar alone and have lost empathy and want to only tear you to shreds, now THAT'S a satisfying feeling. I am but a gladiator risking my life to tell apart the spies from the heroes. But I am not a hero myself. This is why I say I'm not a town leader or champion. It's true! I aim to be a mafia PRODIGY to identify scum correctly (which is why I hate being scum so much so boring), but I am not there to lead town to victory.

I mean me too thanks.

Suspicionpoints for people that ignore this post after this point and do keep their vote without engaging some of this stuff.

[Vecna]

theres probably four scum right?

the only way scum doesnt know who is in what neighborhood is if there are at least two neighborhoods with no scum.

not entirely impossible, but like, not likely?

and then anti has basically made it so scum just has to look for who has stronger connections/interactions than they should.

theres also that i dont think anti is a gimmicky mod.

The entire problem with MOI's argument in our PT was that he was assuming strange distributions of scum/town in pt's, yet he used the argument in one breath still with statements such as "scum allready know all pt's".

[Vecna]

I guess I dont have the meta on the SAD slot that some have, but I really dont understand this wagon at all. Guess if im right ill be the designated white knight tomorrow.

Titus, engage with me some, because im actually very surprised that you have a gut townread on me, even after MOI outed that we had a discussion/fights in our PT about mechanics. Normally id suspect that you get triggered by my current playstyle, especially if told that behind closed doors im still doing the mechanics thing.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Steven Quartz

This vote stays until a fuck is given by this slot

[Vecna]

beeboy is a good candidate for scum

PEdit: @Gorkington do you have any scum reads currently?

Do you disagree?

[Redacted]

[Vecna]

The Yume alt is most likely town because people are poking at it for being Yume. If it was scum I would expect people to just leave it alone tbh.
I mean seriously, this is textbook Yume.
-Ali

What?

[Vecna]

Also Spiffeh, ill decide whats a usefull usage of my vote tyvm

[Vecna]

beeboy is a good candidate for scum

PEdit: @Gorkington do you have any scum reads currently?

Do you disagree?

[Redacted]

What?

Answer the question

I can't, my response merely indicated a sense of deja-vu

[Vecna]

Also Spiffeh, ill decide whats a usefull usage of my vote tyvm

Yeah I'm sure that vote will really compel Yume to start participating

I'm telling you the slot will get replaced. It doesn't make sense to me that you'd vote there over someone like MoI who you've seemingly been going back and forth with all game.

And what gave you the impression i was scumreading MOI for his actions? Just because i dont agree with his reasoning and actions, doesnt mean I think it comes from scum.

[Vecna]

Fine I'll read ;~;
-Ali

Eeew

[Vecna]

I once again also dont see the acumread on creature, but then again that is usually the case.

Titus, id nlike you to expand further on your last answer to my question regarding your read on me, im not really buying it yet, especially since im doing stuff here in a rather particular way here.

Spiffeh seems to be really interested in seeing me go off on MOI, and I could see naughty reasoning behind this since I do tend to tunnel quite hard once i do go off (which is a fact well known to spiffeh).

R&R feels strange as well, trying to appear very trollish at times but doing it in such a way as to not wanting to attract the negative consequences of it. It is also joining me in buddying the SAD slot but im not convinced its doing it for genuine reasons.

Majiffy I keep finding hard to read, and is my wildcard. I do like how hes responding to me mostly though, and this feels best in line with how id expect people to respond.

Vifam feels quite towny as well. More active than ive seen him before, but the same type of short snarky comments.

Just gonna keep my vote where it is untill it gets replaced or I find something worthy of my attention. This day hasnt ran its course by far, but feel free to attack me further over not utilizing my vote.

[Vecna]

Voice of Truth wagon is really really bad right now.
I am going to sort Titus hydra with a night action. This wagon should dissipate.

~Rick (Firebringer)

That would indeed be very convenient. Let the scumteam worry about one of them being outted, OR a townckeared titus. Good

[Vecna]

Hey, let's be real, if I were scum, why would I try scumhunting rather than doing my usual PoE which is easier? I still sometimes scumhunt like this.

I can WIFOM this all fucking day.

@Vecna, when have I trolled at all whatsoever?
Alisae on the otherhand can be read as trollish if you're unfamilliar with how she plays I guess.
Iso her in literally any of her towngames.
-HS

Im aware of that, but notice how that wasnt the reason i brought up. Im used to alisea staying stubborn, not to flip back and go along a few posts later.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Voices of Foot

This is hands down obvious scum with SAD.

He treats me like I am town only to change wagons when SAD momentum dies. He has zero questions for me or any pretense of a scumread.

@Jiffy, I am willing to vote Creature tomorrow. Why break up and have two wagons on scum?

SAD-Creature-beeboy-RR-Quartz <---Scum's likely in that pile. No less than 3 here.

This was partially my doing btw, dont blame creature for it

[Vecna]

Voice of Truth wagon is really really bad right now.
I am going to sort Titus hydra with a night action. This wagon should dissipate.

~Rick (Firebringer)

That would indeed be very convenient. Let the scumteam worry about one of them being outted, OR a townckeared titus. Good

Vote Creature or SAD my man, please.

I will not vote SAD and i really really am not seeing scum creature either.

[Vecna]

Titus is town.
I feel pretty confident in this read at this point.

I may talk about it later, but I think she did a Town tell of hers.
Ill meta dive her later to see if I can confirm my suspicions, but I think she is town.

~Rick (Firebringer)

Why wait with this? Either way, pr sorting of the slot as suggested seems like a strong move

[Vecna]

im not voting someone out of utility short of a deadline crunch.
i'll have strong reads when i make time to read individual ISOs and make time to really think about it.
not by sheeping people.

and if i was going to sheep someone it would probably be fire atm.

Will be interested to see if people also go off on this in the next few pages as they did with me

[Vecna]

I am very angry at this game.
I am very angry at sakura.

I promised myself before game I wouldn't get mad.
Now I am mad at myself.

V/LA till the 9th

~Rick (Firebringer)

Thats a strange post

[Vecna]

Creature SAD Quartz Beeboy

There you go. That's where I am at on scum.

Vifam and Sakura most definitely town.

How can you have a scumread on quartz?

[Vecna]

Gorkington - He feels more engaged then what I have seen from him before. Although that is kinda falling off a bit.

what does this mean.

Rem and Ram - Starting to change my mind on this slot a few of there posts seem kinda odd for scum to make I'd elaborate but I have 10 minutes to make this post before I get stuck mobile posting.

please do.

Voices of Truth - I don't like how the TB slot is literally MIA but seeing Titus under pressure is making me think she is town and she has dropped the entire buddying thing.

more words on this.

Will be interested to see if people also go off on this in the next few pages as they did with me

im a national treasure, so probably not.

Everyone knows I'm a retire delight as well though

[Vecna]

Vecna what right do you have to ask that when your vote is parked on quartz.
-Ali

My vote is an obvious placeholder. And even if nit wasnt i have every right.

[Vecna]

vecna, why are you literally doing nothing.

Literally doing nothing feels just about right right about now

[Vecna]

Obviously declining that gladiate offer, Creature, and I doubt you're taking it seriously yourself.

It's up to town to decide if we're scum after your lynch, not some pact you arranged beforehand.
Besides that, human infallibility comes into play.
-HS

Not sure I always like the alisae posts from this hydra (but to be fair, its been like that in most games I guess), but the HS posts feel pretty strongly towny every single time.

[Vecna]

Voices of Truth - 4 (Marquis, Ser Arthur Dayne, Creature, Sakura Hana)

This wagon shouldn't be a thing unless you think I am scum with Voices.
Anyone who thinks we are scum together is fine to push this, but so far I have no idea why Arthur is still on this or why Sakura is still on this.

Marquis is reaching not caring about the game.
Creature is creature so he won't explain it.

~Rick

Id still like you to out why you think this is town!Titus. And why youre defending the slot so hard, unless you have a dead lock on that read.

So far this feels like a different shade ( ) of Titus that ive got to experience in any game so far.

[Vecna]

The reason I think Titus is town is she didn't default read me like she tends to do as Scum. The way I talk to her she seems to not like shifting reads when she is scum more. So when I first talked to her this game she approached me as null. Her reads feel like she is thinking about the game even if its in her own way, when she is scum she makes more of a single narrative thats built on something that doesn't mean anything.

In other words I think she is making reads this game and not just throwing in fluff and calling it a read.

If you think this is wrong, ill gladly talk it out with you.

~Rick

Ok, thanks. Im not quite sure yet that I agree on the genuine-ness of the read forming yet, especially when it comes to me - but ill just leave it at the decided solution that was uttered earlier (unless the slot starts towning it up in which case it becomes a waste obviously).

[Vecna]

I hope i dont regret this
VOTE: Vecna

Id like some sorting of your slot here. Talk to me why youre scumreading me.

[Vecna]

Also, I want people to explain this creature-crusade. Especially Titus and Alisae since I know they have just as much experience with the slot as I do - and they know full well this is how it ALWAYS plays.

[Vecna]

Majiffy, have you played with creature before recently?

[Vecna]

HS, I see what you mean, but he fillers as town just as well. Ill just have to come up with some way of reading into the creature posts to determine the differences between scum/town. I really dont believe everyone voting him has the experience to make that distinction though, but w/e.

There was some thing that happened in our neighbourhood and how he acted on it that makes me think this isnt scum!creature though.

He was asking me in our neighbourhood who we should be pressuring, I told him Titus.....and poof in he comes and just votes Titus out of the blue no questions asked. Why bring that attention onto yourself like that as scum?

[Vecna]

Also, Maria scumreads me in every game after we've been scum together.

[Vecna]

He was asking me in our neighbourhood who we should be pressuring, I told him Titus.....and poof in he comes and just votes Titus out of the blue no questions asked. Why bring that attention onto yourself like that as scum?

:v

if you want me to seriously consider creature as scum on basis of meta, youre going to need to link me a game where he actually does something.
and doesnt just jump on and off wagons without any reasoning.

because that isnt what hes doing here.

Its the total opposite, I think he's town here.

[Vecna]

i still also really feel like creature pretending to have stronger scumreads than he actually had to get reactions is just a level of thinking that someone who's apparently a lurker-scum that cant make real sounding posts wouldnt be on right now.
i dont understand how anyone can object to putting creature sort on the backburner and if hes scum i will literally take whatever comes from that when it comes to that.

vecna, beeboy and quartzslot are the only places i would seriously consider lynching right now.

p-edit: -.-

Also, I thought we had a special thing going on.

[Vecna]

I agree with your sentiment, and the gimmick is in the process of going away

[Vecna]

vecna's avatar makes me want to lynch him
I hope that's not actually biasing my slight scumread on the slot

How can you hate on beavis and butthead? This statement itself also makes me want to lynch you

[Vecna]

Hmmmm creature does appear to be panicking quite hard, which is not something im used to from him under pressure.

[Vecna]

@MoI

Oh let’s talk about Vecna …

Nonsensical defense post based on thing at all

This is scum decrediting right here. I can safely say that Firebringer would absolutely use his well known distates for Yume to help justify a push on her as scum partners for Town cred. So this is scum looking to find things to infer are scummy as opposed to processing information.

And how is this discrediting, seeing how none of that info was provided in the sentence? The defence was effectively using meta that most people here are not going to be aware of, without explaining it. Being called out on it was completely justified, you brownnosing him to try and discredit me is kinda sad.

And yet to this point you have completely ignored my last post on the matter in our PT. Extrapolating your one game of the same moderator is no guarantee for this setup. And you just outted our entire neighbourhood without us giving you permission, OR you finishing the discussion, OR countering any of my valid concerns.

Let’s address the misrep first – “based on a single game” … clearly it was not since it is based on Inorganic and Organic Chemistry (you know … the direct prequels to this game) and UPick Science. Not sure why he’s specifically lie about that since both Marquis and Creature can confirm that information.

Ill rephrase what you said in the PT to counter this nonsense;
-You said it was based on a quick read of 2 threads.
-One that didnt use similair mechanics, and 1 that also used neighbourhoods pt.
-you stated you didnt read the third thread.

So yes, extrapolation wrt neighbourhood distribution based on one game, and using it to justify to out all the neighbourhoods. This nonsense stating you dont care about my opinion because you "scumread" me based on one post in the neighbourhood PT is laughable as well.

And then let’s address the “ignored my last post” point. That post was “hey, let’s not bring this discussion to the main thread” which I could care less about his preferences given I’m scum reading him for his reaction in the PT and want that information provided as widely as possible.

This is also false. I asked you what the advantage is to a massclaim for town, and I asked you why you wouldnt want to wait to discuss it with other people before just outting it. I indeed brought up points that the setup might rely on information regarding neighbourhoods, and that knowing what type of chemical compound someone is might help activate certain abilities. This makes sense in nature, since those particles do have chemical reactions when you mix some of them. You ignored the discussion and just pushed your own opinion through. But hey, everyone disagreeing with you must be scum, right? I almost hope now that this is indeed the case, and youre either caught scum or just proven how idiotic your stubbornness really is.

Lastly the “not finishing the discussion” point .. it was already finished the minute he stated “Oh no, scumz might have super sekrit abilities triggered by Neighborhood knowledge” stance. This is an semi-Open game with full knowledge to everyone that there are four Neighborhoods. Even if you disagree with my meta stance that there will be 1 Town only Neighborhood then you have to know that scum already know exactly who is in what Neighborhood. So floating a “Oh god scum could get sekrit powers” makes no sense since scum are going to know the make-up of the Neighborhoods regardless if they are evenly split or there is a Town Neighborhood. It is a completely illogical stance on its face and that Vecna used it as an excuse to oppose a mass Neighborhood claim shows to scum motivation to keep Town in the dark as much as possible.

Now whose shading and trying to redicule my opinion. The fact youre so certain that this isnt the case should show people that you know more than you really let on here. Also, with 17 people distributed over 4 neighbourhoods theres plenty other possibilities for distributions - more flawed assumptions on your part. Or maybe not an assumption at all, but just slipping what you allready know?

VOTE: Steven Quartz

This vote stays until a fuck is given by this slot

Here is scum trying to pressure a known flaker slot as opposed to actively voting any of the players he claims are scum (not that at this point he’s had many scum reads … mostly OMGUS reads for people who suspect him and attempts to buddy Gork and Majiffy).

Maybe you should actually read my posts before making up shit. Tell me, who did I claim is scum?
Also, seeing how you indicated earlier you know Yume's meta, tell me this; Does it lurk as scum? Because I have meta on my last game (code geass) that yume does lurk as scum. Everyone that was in that game can confirm. Either way its besides the point since it was a very obvious placeholder vote, which I even indicated it was. Trying to claim I was trying to pressure a known site flaker or w/e is just more confbias nonsense.

Also, tell me who I have OMGUS'd because this is another clear lie.

And what gave you the impression i was scumreading MOI for his actions? Just because i dont agree with his reasoning and actions, doesnt mean I think it comes from scum.

That fence must really, really be comfortable …

My fence is as comfortable as it gets, and at least it attracted the dumb-ass scum that you are out of the woods.

Majiffy I keep finding hard to read, and is my wildcard. I do like how hes responding to me mostly though, and this feels best in line with how id expect people to respond.

So keeping this in mind go back and look at Vecna’s progression on Majiffy. He starts with a “dislike this player” approach but quickly shifts to “Haha, Imma buddy this as I think feeding his ego is the way to go”. When that doesn’t work we get the above where he can go either way depending on public sentiment.

This is false. As indicated, I disliked his first posts, and liked a bunch of them later on. Also, where have I fed the slots ego? more made up nonsense.

How can you have a scumread on quartz?

So he’s flat out admitting he’s idling his vote on a slot he doesn’t think is scum for policy reasons that everyone and his brother say will not work …

Scum.

[/quote]

Yes, scum would obviously be so blatant about it, right?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This post is full of holes, half truths, confbias and lies.

But ill come down from my fence now, reactiontest succesfull - they always bite.

VOTE: MoI

[Vecna]

1480 is what it replies to Majiffy, but people appear to complain about how its done no matter whether I quote it fully and write in bolded replies in between or do it like this

[Vecna]

At any rate, I invite you to read that post carefully, and asses whether you agree with me that its all just disingenous fabricated nonsense or actually based on a real town mindset trying to read real allignment into behaviour

[Vecna]

As for people wondering, yes I have just been mindlessly trolling most of today to invite reactions. Like SAD has stated before, the easiest way to read people is when they come after you. If you put yourself out there enough scum will always bite, and its usually rather easy to distinguish between town interacting with your nonsense and scum doing it.

MOI is scum trying to justify a vote & mislynch on me

[Vecna]

I've already assed that MoI is town so I'm good, thanks.

You should probably reasses and read that post with an open mind

[Vecna]

Do keep an open mind about plural asses as well though

[Vecna]

Ok my work here is done, Ive caught my scum of the day.

Time to wake up boys, youre all way behind on voting todays real bandwagon

[Vecna]

Id still rather be alone on this wagon than be in the company of the spelling bee queens on the creature wagon.

At any rate, time to town it up and make the silly scumz realize their error in thinking they can wagon me

[Vecna]

Ser Arthur Dayne

MagnaofIllusion

Gorkington

Spiffeh

Rem and Ram (Alisae and Human Sequencer)

Sakura Hana

Rick and Andrea (Firebringer and MariaR)

Vifam

kuror0

Vecna

Voices of Truth (Titus and Thinkbig)

Majiffy

BigYoshiFan

beeboy

Steven Quartz

Creature

Marquis

[Vecna]

See, creature is more towards the colour of a christmas tree, and not quite very red.

Voting creature is bad.

[Vecna]

Talk to me why youre scumreading me.

You clearly haven't been reading my posts then.

I have been reading your posts, and although we disagree on SAD I think so far our colour schemes might match reasonably. Im not really sure if were gonna reach common ground as long as you scumread me, but if you want to im all up for it.

[Vecna]

Its time for you to return some of that love. How do you feel about MoI and his one-dimensional tunnel on me?

[Vecna]

If you dont want to trust my gut MoI explained it better than me in 1480

Except this post is all based on confbias and lies. TvT wagon ahoy

At any rate, people that have played with me before several times already know this; if im actually scumread, it means im town.

[Vecna]

What I think about Vecna's push on MoI
(And it's all gut btw)

-Ali

What else is new

[Vecna]

Also Ali, im going to give you the very same message that I gave you in Code Geass, youre barking up the wrong tree.

MoI has been full on attacking me in the hood ever since the very first post where I disagreed with his plan. I put forth my reasons, but instead of answering them and discussing it he pushed for his own ideas and continued scumreading me in the process. It literally went "I dont see town posting something like this" and has confbiassed everything around this. I didnt see scum reasoning in it at first, but his last post just completely distorts events to fit his narrative and randomly dug up some other things I did as further "proof" without really trying to read what motivation town could have to do those things. His read is fake.

Notice how I havent attacked anyone else over them scumreading me, I asked them for their reasons and I was fine with them. I did design my play to get responses. You have seen me play as town like this in the past, and you full well know that is how I play as town.

[Vecna]

Not gonna vote creature to save my own hide.

Also your post does not inspire confidence that you actually read what it going on.

[Vecna]

Oh the day cop.

No I got a 1-shot day cop from an inventor, and I claimed that in the neighborhood PT with guilty result, but people said to wait for Steven replacement before announcing it.

Wait, this is actually serious? Or are you just fishing for reactions?

[Vecna]

What makes you think BYF is scum creature?

[Vecna]

Ill respond more in depth later from behind an actual computer, but just to clarify some points;

The extrapolation was about how scum is distributed amonst neighbourhoods. Yes?

Moi just admitted himself that only one of those 3 games use neighbourhoods from the start. So tell me then, how was my statement misrep that the extrapolation was based on one game?

This entire argument was about whether there was town benefit in knowing the neighbourhood setups. MoIs argument was YES there is, because scum already know it. Based on this previous game from the same mod.

I countered it stating this assumption was based on the extrapolation of one similair case with this mod.

Now tell me where im lying, or shading, or misrepping.

This is what happened. This is apparently what i got scumread for, because my initial gut response was to keep scum in the dark untilk we know more about the setup and we can assess how much we need to know the info.

Yes ive played a bunch of games recently where knowledge of these types of things activate abilities, so i instantly had the gut reaction of not agreeing to MoIs plan. Yes i used this as an argument. MoI using this against me is crap, even if he is right that this mod doesnt use those type of mechanics and never would. There is no scum justification here, and jumping to that conclusion after a few posts is just incredibly fishy.

[Vecna]

VOTE: voices of truth

Better be carefull whoever is about to attack me over this vote (yes i know its coming, better make it good)

[Vecna]

i really dont know why you put yourself in these kinds of positions titus.
short of vecna being your scumbuddy.
which is pretty likely IMO.

Its titus trying to buddy town vecna, nothing more, nothing less

[Vecna]

All i wanted was a freaking discussion on the merits you cockmongrring baboon, jesus christ

[Vecna]

All i wanted was a freaking discussion on the merits you cockmongrring baboon, jesus christ

3/10
~Andrea

Tough audience

[Vecna]

All i wanted was a freaking discussion on the merits you cockmongrring baboon, jesus christ

You can talk to me about your reads. I know you think I am scum but I don't think you are.

I have plenty of townleans, 1 frustrating potential scum up my rearside, and a titus acting like she's suddenly a different person.

What else do you want to hear?

[Vecna]

Hmmm

Titus keeps having flashes of townie things but it's clouded by a huge cloud of summiness.

Tslk to me about these because im seeing none of it.

[Vecna]

I was vla at gamestart. I am here now. Talk to me about your not!Vecna reads.

Has nothing to do with you being V/LA. I would think you would understand that given I already questioned you about your “I need to sort MoI” stance that disappeared apparently because I pushed SAD. And the fact that early on you floated “Scum one each in the Neighborhoods” which is either bad or scum looking to make sure a partner gets “cleared” when another player from the Neighborhood flips.

Are you not reading my posts? I can summarize them but my reads should be pretty apparent from them.

SAD and Vecna scum.

Creature is Null but giving him a Town lean based on the likelihood he is not scum with Vecna from their PT interactions.

Gork is pretty Town. And I’m leaning Town on the FIrebringer / Maria hydra.

If I was looking for scum outside SAD / Vecna I have very weak gut reads on Sakura and Maquis.

So talk to me about your reads now …

So let me ask you this "friend". You think scum sad and scum vecna are having this open lovefest out in the open air.....

And your third scumlean is voting me along side you....

And your fourth scumlean is the other person that was midly critiquing your plan as well in the pt....

Brilliant. Just pure genious.

I honestly start doubting whether you're actually scum when you have reads like these, because no self respecting scum would make reads this likely to get ridiculed.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Magna

Me and Rick agree on this there's not a lot of reads we disagree on tbh the only one we do disagree on is Voices
Pedit: Oh go on rick post away
Pedit2: My turn yet...nope
Pedit3: FFS
Pedit4: I fucking hate you all
~Andrea

Oh boy oh boy oh boy

I get to have both of my scumreads wagoned now? And i can even pick between them?

This suddenly became very interesting

[Vecna]

Well people promised to sort titus with their pr power so im fine settling it that way as well....

[Vecna]

Maybe you should have her replace you

[Vecna]

Sakura/MoI: the last time I played with Vecna, those same types of points were pinging me for a lot of the early game.

He flipped town.

And had a lock on all the scum masterminds on day 2....which were completely ignored for the rest of the game after i got killed

[Vecna]

VOTE: Beeboy

This is feeling quite a lot better this time around

[Vecna]

I still demand that Titus gets sorted with a night action though or else this is coming back tomorrow.

[Vecna]

gork is town, that's my read, hope you enjoyed :^)

let me catch up first then i might get back to you bruv

-HS

Yeah that ones pretty obvious imo. Id aay the same thibg about creature, except i guess it never is that way for most people.

Either way im getting pretty bored of defending creature in every game thst i play. He plays like this as town, and he's not giving me any reason to think hes not town. Ill just take take a page out of firebringers book and stop defending him from here on out and watch and observe whose squirming to get him lynched instead.

[Vecna]

ISO Creature and tell me what you think of his read on BYF.
Creature posts his reads in the thread as town. He's a stream of conciousness poster, and the lack of him signalling his read change is damning.
Still catching up.
-HS

Not sure i agree with this assesment either

[Vecna]

I love this.

Its a rather convenient "thing" to hide behibd as well though. I still feel that last wall on me was fabricated as fuck, but ill just sit here untill he tries to do jt to someone else as well

[Vecna]

Creature/Moi/Bee/???
~Andrea

2/3 max

[Vecna]

Creature sr's my top tr? Okay he can die even more then I wanted him dead before
~Andrea

Care to explain your tr on yoshi? I had the same initial gut feeling it it has waned a lot recently (which is actually why i don't find creatures read/vote weird at all).

[Vecna]

Here is a more important list

Ser Arthur Dayne - miss the earlygame funposting, being a lil mean to MoI but that's ok because its hilarious
MagnaofIllusion - needs to take the game a little less seriously tbh
Gorkington - getting frustrated, don't be so down my dude
Spiffeh - i miss u
Sakura Hana - idk still glazing their posts as if they were a fine donut
Rick and Andrea - hope u feeling better bro, mariar i miss u
Vifam - :mr_shifty:
kuror0 - bye lmao
Vecna - change your avi it triggers me
Voices of Truth - ITS JUST A GAME BRO
Majiffy - i'll just be a jiffy (you pass with flying colours)
BigYoshiFan - hey bro how u doin
beeboy - a bee and also a boy what madness is this
Steven Quartz - lol
Creature - sorry you rolled scum
Marquis - hope u feelin better

So many people hating on my avatar.....did you guys/girls ever even watch beavis and butthead? That show was the nuts

[Vecna]

Seriously if the wagons that formed on beeboy and creature didn't reek so much I wouldn't be so harsh in my judgement of them esp considering I don't townread either one but these wagons lmao.

Wgo else you want wagones besodes titus? You dobt agree sorting titus with a pr power is the best approach if its availlable wince she also can be a big asset?

[Vecna]

VoT/Sakura/Majiffy/Steven scumteam???

Beeboy is actuslly a good wagon. I cannot go into specifics but my metaread is quite decent

[Vecna]

But Creature wagon has always been there...

That's just people having lazy reads and sitting on the wagon whether it's on town or scum.

Like lets saying Creature is town what do you expect would happen to his wagon? Scum would just jump on and hammer him early or??

R&R and I have both been trying to get people to switch to Creature for most of the game.

There's a lot of resistance to it, despite not a lot of people saying "Creature is soooo obvtown" which indicates to me that scum does not want to bus.

Do you think my wagon is all town?

If yes, why don't you think atleast one scum would be jumping in?
If not, why don't you think scum would let it die?

Sure.

And no, because the wagon is so slow-moving and there are lots of faster alternatives cropping up.

They're trying not to bus.

If all you're doing is VCA then VoT wagon went slower.

Why isn't your vote on there?

Because Titus is town and the wagon is shit.

[Vecna]

Why would it be easier to ML you?

There's not even a wagon on you.

Your argument has no legs.

There would be if every player SRing me decided to vote me.

Interesting point. The fact youre making it yourself looks better for you though, since normally this would be a pretty good indicator for scum being hesitant to bus early.

[Vecna]

If i ignore the ali head, me

[Vecna]

Mastina to catch you up here:

Town List: Arthur, Sakura Hana, Vifam, Gorkington, Marquis, Yoshi
Very Likely Town: Voices of Truth, Spiffeh, Rem and Ram, Majiffy
Scum/Unsorted: You, Creature, Vecna, MagnaofIllusion, Ankamius,

~Rick

Honestly I don't like the fact you're trying to feed mastina something here.
-Ali

Honestly the fact HS is townreading me so quickly after they said they'd be more careful of my gameplay b/c I tricked them last time in Masquerade ball is super concerning for me :S I feel like I'm being buddied/pocketed, esp with how quickly Alisae changed his read too.

Your paranoia here is towny.
-Ali

More Ali posts I just dont like at all. Surface level appearance-type posting.

[Vecna]

No.

Not without a lot of cake.

I just had some iranian cake-pie stuff. It definitely was truthful.

[Vecna]

I lied.

I skimmed and I feel this.

VOTE: Vifam

One of beeboy/Creature is probably scum but I just wanna troll push for a bit if that's not going to cause drama.

Mastina, VCA without flips to create pools...aaaaahhh I has no hair.

Youre doing this on purpose right? Given that people usually call your scumplay mastermind-like this weird behaviour is almost becoming a towntell.

[Vecna]

Think ill just copy a bunch of Mastina's reads tomorrow and pretend theyre mine, seeing how I could do with some more scumreads in this game.

[Vecna]

Im not really liking spiffeh's level of care for this game. Lacking any ambition or scumhuntering so far which is not what im used to from the slot.

[Vecna]

I subscribed to your Beeboy newsletter spiff, when are you gonna come in here and write some fancy editorials or banging headlines?

[Vecna]

I liked a few posts from Spiffeh but we'll see how he does from now I'm interested in keeping him on my radar.

I also liked most of what he posted.....I just want him to get back in here and produce more stuff for me to like

[Vecna]

Creature down, Sakura up, Rem/Ram up, beeboy slightly up, Marquis slighlty up b/c I agree with Firebringer, Mastina slightly and cautiously up.

Does Mastina do this artifical way of approaching the game more often?

So far im gonna hold off judgement, the way the slot is doing things is still feeling a bit detached, hopefully ill get a better taste of it when her commentary goes live.

[Vecna]

Rem and Ram feels like that if they're town they would be able to read me as town.

Have you ever felt that someone should've been townreading you and they're not? Wouldn't you feel like they're scum pushing your mislynch?

You should probably stop using this as a measure, and just accept that youre hard to read for nearly everyone. Whether someone can read you properly really shouldnt be a way to measure allignment, unless their reasons for deciding one way or the other arent genuine.

[Vecna]

SIBLING NAHDIA! :O
MY APATHY IS KINDA LESS NOW :O

Ugh.....hmmmm

UNVOTE: Beeboy

[Vecna]

Democulize huh?

[Vecna]

Yeah youre right actually, rules kinda confirm SAD to be messing around

[Vecna]

Wanna wagon on MoI creature/SAD?

This beeboy thing is having me second guess myself

[Vecna]

VOTE: MoI

Slot has conveniently retreated into the woodworks again without any proper justification for suddenly shifting its attention to Voices in its last few posts. Guess it realized that it tried to take a bite out of a bear. Hyena diet does not consist of bear.

[Vecna]

Just one wagon that makes me happy will suffice.

I can settle on VoT, allthough some of the posts feel like Titus is just not giving a shit this game. Havent played with her as scum before, but Im having some doubts whether she'd go for that approach as scum to put that amount of attention/pressure on herself.

[Vecna]

If youre so apathetic to mafia in general, why are you playing this game Beeboy?

[Vecna]

Beeboy is always an easy mislynch though (which is the reason im second guessing myself atm whether its AI in its current iteration).

Can you elaborate on some pionts where town & scum beeboy differ (if you have recent'ish meta on the slot)?

[Vecna]

Pretty sure you did nothing wrong here FB

[Vecna]

Vecna, what do you think of Vifam?

Not much to base it on, but feels town

[Vecna]

Go ahead and tell me why there's a wagon suddenly popping up on a slot with no reasoning whatsoever that also happens to hold two scumreads and two nullreads of mine.

Maybe read the game?

[Vecna]

I'm not really sure on Vecna. He asked me to vote VoT, but then I don't remember him ever voting them with me.

Then you need to refresh your memory (although my vote mightve come a bit later, but it was there for quite some time).

[Vecna]

Spiffeh seems to be really interested in seeing me go off on MOI, and I could see naughty reasoning behind this since I do tend to tunnel quite hard once i do go off (which is a fact well known to spiffeh).

First of all, that most certainly is not a fact well known to me? We have no completed games together so idk why you're acting like I'm some expert on how you play.

Also, the above quote shows that you were at least suspicious of me. This was right before I went V/LA and I've only made a handful of posts since then. Yet you say this:

I liked a few posts from Spiffeh but we'll see how he does from now I'm interested in keeping him on my radar.

I also liked most of what he posted.....I just want him to get back in here and produce more stuff for me to like

I'm surprised that your opinion on me can change so dramatically when I haven't even been posted. Where is this sudden "liking me" coming from?

I really dont see what part of these statements is so hard to understand. My 2nd statement referred to the general feeling I had regarding your early posts, the first is to a few in specific I didnt like. How is that a dramatic change of opinion?

[Vecna]

idk, there should have more wagons, so far I was the only main wagon in the entire game.

DEMONSTRABLY FALSE

LITERALLY MADE A POST ABOUT THIS

HOLY FUCK LYNCH THIS FUCKING LIAR

You gonna have some thoughts on other people that arent creature at some point during this day?

[Vecna]

spiff was in mafiaception.
hes going to back me up here.

hey

I don't think this is anywhere near obvious scum!Titus levels like you're making it out to be

Titus has actual read progression here
Titus is actually making pushes that make sense to me from her point of view
Titus isn't hardcore buddying anyone like I'd expect her to as scum

Like the last thing I'd expect Titus to do as scum is step on your feet after you nailed her in Mafiaception

I see you're not voting here anymore but if you still feel this confident than you're going to have to walk me through it

Been trying to buddy me pretty hard though...

[Vecna]

You gonna have some thoughts on other people that arent creature at some point during this day?

I've been giving thoughts on most of the game events.

Sorry you haven't been reading?

Oh ive been reading, I just disagree with any sentiment where you think you've been diversifying your attention in a significant manner

[Vecna]

Actually I'm a bit fucking perturbed, Vecna


Instead of actually addressing the fact that I'm calling Creature out on his *continued* lying shit

You make a backhanded whiny post about how I'm pushing for a scumread



What the fuck is that

Its me hoping we can finally have a decent wagon now

[Vecna]

This MoI wagon is so bad that I'm willing to call MoI pretty solidly town solely from that.

Vecna, Creature, Vifam, Ser Arthur Dayne

Huh. No wonder this wagon smells so bad.

Go ahead and tell me why there's a wagon suddenly popping up on a slot with no reasoning whatsoever that also happens to hold two scumreads and two nullreads of mine.

Unpack that for me. Tell me exactly what you mean.

This is not town giving thoughts on a wagon, this is scum defending a wagon knowing it's town.

I don't give thoughts on wagons I think are blatantly shit, I condemn them.

I haven't seen a single reason why an MoI wagon should be happening right now from a town perspective and the way you and Creature are trying to strongarm me down the moment I express as much is very fascinating.

You didnt condemn the wagon though, you tried to shade it by insinuating stuff about the people on it without directly pointing at anything in specific. Also, all 4 of the people are ranging from pretty to obviously towny so I have no idea what youre even trying to suggest here.

Suspicious points for ankamius.

[Vecna]

Go ahead and tell me why there's a wagon suddenly popping up on a slot with no reasoning whatsoever that also happens to hold two scumreads and two nullreads of mine.

Maybe read the game?

No.

Ah yes, the refusal to read so you have an excuse to not be aware of the fact that there actually were pretty good reasons for the wagon.

[Vecna]

How prone to manipulation do you feel your VCA approach is if people know how you do it?

[Vecna]

^ thank you for being more articulate on the matter, and seconded for most of the points made.

Townread of gork increases.

[Vecna]

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that people take so much effort to come in here and make like a more wordy, more eloquent version of posts that I posted within the last 24 hours.

[Vecna]

GT, how DO you read Mastina as a book?

[Vecna]

Also, what happened to Titus? Is the slot V/LA or something or just attempting to lurk away the pressure?

[Vecna]

Ill second your list, but id replace Majiffy with MoI. Wouldnt be too thrilled with Ank either untill I see more.

[Vecna]

VOTE: SAD

While I think Majiffy is probably Town pushing on Creature there are too many other voices I feel are Town saying he’s not likely scum. I’m not going to join there for the moment. So my vote goes back on scum I’ve already found.

And rather than rehashing all the already clear evidence I’ve pointed out I’ll reference 2224 as another post from a scum perspective. Ank has recently seen a junk wagon pop up on Town me for absolutely junk reasons. And him calling it out as he did is at worst NAI. So SAD floating it is “scum defending a wagon” is newb level posting. How scum defends a wagon on someone they know is Town is exactly the way SAD is defending Creature … just repeat that you think he is Town and when presented with facts (in this case that Creature is continuing to peddle a destroyed narrative) just say “I disagee”.

And Vecna continues to be obv with 2231 – he’s knocking someone for buddying up to him while he went out of his way to play in that same manner very early until I called him out on it.

I’m actually shocked as shit that Spiffeh is claiming a Town read on me after Thing Mafia. I need to process this because I expected that for him (as salty as he was about that loss) I’d not be ever above a Null read for him for about 6 months.

--

Actually I'm a bit fucking perturbed, Vecna

Instead of actually addressing the fact that I'm calling Creature out on his *continued* lying shit

You make a backhanded whiny post about how I'm pushing for a scumread

What the fuck is that

Majiffy –he’s scum … you have to see that by now …

--

Yoshi I probably would also vote at this stage for 2206. That is a pile of LAMIST garbage posting - “I’m coasting blah blah blah see I’m asking if you noticed so I’m totally Town right no scum would post this”.

Yoshi

– I’d really like you to address the following Cognitive Dissonance for me …

This MoI wagon is so bad that I'm willing to call MoI pretty solidly town solely from that.

Vecna, Creature, Vifam, Ser Arthur Dayne

Huh. No wonder this wagon smells so bad.

*vigorous nods of approval*

This MoI wagon is so bad that I'm willing to call MoI pretty solidly town solely from that.

Vecna, Creature, Vifam, Ser Arthur Dayne

Huh. No wonder this wagon smells so bad.

Go ahead and tell me why there's a wagon suddenly popping up on a slot with no reasoning whatsoever that also happens to hold two scumreads and two nullreads of mine.

Unpack that for me. Tell me exactly what you mean.

This is not town giving thoughts on a wagon, this is scum defending a wagon knowing it's town.

Intriguing... Regardless, I like this read. May or may not be true, but I like the thought process.

--

you really think creature making untrue statements about hiswagon being a Big Deal makes him scum?

Why ask a question that is pointless? It means he is either scum trying to wiggle out of pressure or a terrible Town player. That’s established. I understand what I think is Majiffy’s frustration. Giving players a pass to play bad as Town “because they do” leads to players like KainTepes being celebrated instead of encouraged to not play poorly.

How do you propose to read Creature then?

--

No, but I am a replacement in a game with Firebringer AND MagnaofIllusion, both players who tend to take issue with me and would rather not have had me replace in--so it's treading on eggshells for me to try to be on my best behavior and yet still function as a player.

There's a grand total of seven players who so much as could be scum--MoI/Creature/Marquis/Rick/Majiffy/VoT/Yoshi; everyone else is town.
This, not even going into whether the players actually are scum. (For instance, you I heavily lean against.)

Look – more mastin bullshit. Oh I’m worried about how Rick and Andrea / MoI will react to me so I’m being careful. Meanwhile both these players are in the pool of fucking 7 players who could only be scum. Yes that’s right … mastin has a pool that is 4/7 scum and is worried about offending two of the players in that fucking pool.

Terrible posting – the fact that he’s probably Town makes it even more frustrating.

I didnt "knock" Titus for buddying me (Ive already provided plenty other reasons for why I think the slot is scum) - I corrected SAD when he said Titus hasnt been buddying anyone as the slot apparently does as scum. Whether I was actively buddying people myself is irrelevant.

More fabricated reasons to keep scumreading me, without actually reading the context of where statements are made.

[Vecna]

Why are you so sure this is town MoI SAD? He's not on your want to lynch list anymore. Like, read the reasons he keeps bringing against me and how fake as shit they are.

[Vecna]

Hmmm I dno, Ive played with him before in PYP where he was town, and I dont remember any of this nonsense (allthough granted he did replace out there after a while if im not mistaken).

[Vecna]

slash-popcorning intensifies

[Vecna]

Based on what Titus?

[Vecna]

Gork, how well do you know SAD's scumgame? How would you rate it in terms of being able to deceive people?

[Vecna]

And use your own words. I don't want a quote wall unless it's your own posts.

If you think im gonna rewrite it all just because you cba to check someone's iso + certain pages of this game, youre very much mistaken.

[Vecna]

Vecna catchup'ing of the last 25 pages or so, posting thoughts along the way

No, they can't. Yoshi specifically agreed with Ank's assessment that the wagon is trash. And then agreed with ScumAD that Ank might be scummy.

Nono you can't be this bad.

He said "Intriguing... Regardless, I like this read. May or may not be true, but I like the thought process."

Literally let's break down this for you.

"Interesting, regardless of whether this is true or not, I like the thought process".

Meaning he likes the read itself, but not necessarily agree with it. He likes the fact I am making the read, and my thought process leading to it.

This is so hilarious; Ankamius comes in to the game, very blatantly states he did not read the game - meaning he has no clue -WHY- the MOI wagon was a thing, yet is condemning it based on what exactly? I told him if he wants to have the full story he has to read, but that aint happening.

Yet people are pouring over it "agreeing" with ankamius on his assesment WHICH THEY KNOW FULL WELL is based on just what he read, which includes none of the actual reasoning behind it.

[Vecna]

So I just ran through Majiffy ISO and these are the only 2 posts regarding his early Creature scumread:

Creature's probably flipping scum, too.

I wanted to gif fight Majiffy.

GIF war? Bring it on.

You are not paying attention so hard it's a skill

I like this line. I'm stealing this line.

UNVOTE: R&R
VOTE: Creature

Join me Titus

One is a "probably", the other a blank vote.

We then get a multitude of posts of "Get on Creature" "Lynch Creature" etc etc. Only after a long time did Creature say something, and then Majiffy counter with his case about how Creature is "lying". Meanwhile the way the ISO reads he had a strong scumread way before, but nothing in his posts point strongly to that.

Is it a scum way of doing it though? Smells more like TvT to me.

[Vecna]

About fucking time, Titus. Now I know you're town.

Moving on.

Explain this please, because I see nothing in your interaction where you genuinely get this impression from.

[Vecna]

Majiffy, are we going to get in a VCA discussion this game? It's almost worth lurking to do that.

About fucking time, Titus. Now I know you're town.

Moving on.

This doesn't answer my question. What were you looking for your test and why?

Creature, I was never lynched in SU2 and I am not voting you now. I threw out Vifam as scum like yesterday or today and haven't pushed it much.

So where are you getting confbiased from?

More Titus posts that do not feel like town-titus AT ALL.

[Vecna]

I think MoI is more likely town here than not

I've been a little hesitant to commit one way or another on him because of Thing Mafia but I think SAD is right in some respect that his pushes here for a lot like town!MoI.

In The Thing he was scum and it felt like he tended to go with the flow and buddied me hard to the point where it felt his reads only existed to coincide with mine

Here I feel like he's not concerned what people think of him and seems to actually believe what he's pushing

(catching up now dear lord)
INTERESTING I feel the exact opposite in every manner
~Andrea

Im happy that you see Scum!MoI......but didnt you say something completely different earlier? (Like scumreading me, thinking it was scum theater - or am I mixing up people now?)

What caused the change?

[Vecna]

This feels like PYP Vifam not Smackdown
~Andrea

Except vifam didnt post at all there....This feels completely different to PYP Vifam, since he also was a lot less confrontational there. Here he actually prods stuff and is pushing and trying to agitate people (me).

Different, but still town.

[Vecna]

Ank/Moi/Bee/R&R/???
This feels good to me right now on a full catch up
~Andrea

Found a new person to buddy. Hi Maria, what pretty reads you have. Our reads are almost an exact copy, we'll get along swimmingly I think.

[Vecna]

Vecna is town
Creature is town
Cheetory lean town
Voices by far my strongest scumread

Vote: Voices

Who is Cheetory?

Also what made you produce this list when you were at this point in time because so far I disagree with the Creature read as he coughed up an excuse to lurk(which is a always a red flag for me)

As for Voices, esplain because I didn't see you mention or interact with them before this post.

Tho I gotta give you credit for is your Vecna read because I liked his entrance. caveat to that is I want more from his 196 if he didn't expand on it later on. Looks to be that he had issue; or at least something pinged to him about the word "rhetorical" being used. If it's AI to him, I want to know, if it's not, I want to know why he brought it up.

Dont think I did followup on it, and I dont even remember anymore what it was about.

Reading back on the post, I guess it just felt out of place to me at the time. Probably didn't read the post properly since it kinda made sense what he was saying.

[Vecna]

GT, how DO you read Mastina as a book?

It's really not that hard. I win when scum not by keeping people from scumreading me--but by keeping people from lynching me even when they scumread me. For further details, refer to the flowchart.

Here, for your reading pleasure, might as well quote this.

I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.

Actually...I have.

I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".

Spoiler: Stuff about it

The flowchart, while half a year old in its latest version, still applies more than it doesn't, by the way.
I'll condense it down for you, though:
If Mastin is scum, accept the loss; she's going to win regardless of what you do. So treat her like town.
If Mastin is town, then she is town. Treat her as town. If she wants to be listened to, listen to her and trust her instincts. If she doesn't tell you to listen to her, take her words with a grain of salt; they're reads but not solid ones.
BAM.
You now know how to treat Mastin.
Will work out for you nearly every single game.

Summary. I think I realized my problem with Mastin. Her reads are changing very quickly and they're moving on a very, very wide scale.

Helpful hint, you have absolutely no reason to trust me on this right now, but this is a MASSIVE towntell for me. On the "how to read Mastin: the flowchart" I made (I need to track down the most up-to-date version), it's one of the primary items, in fact. The reason? Town Mastin doesn't have a clue what's going on. Her reads are in a state of constant flux, specifically because of that, and her own self-doubt, paranoia, and whatnot betrays her, as she constantly second-guesses herself and reevaluates, rethinks, and redoes stuff. In contrast, scuMastin has absolute control of the game. Whereas town-Mastin is defined by inconsistency, scuMastin is defined by consistent, solid, controlled, calculated play. She keeps the same reads as much as possible, because it serves to antagonize the least number of players. She is calm, collected, and cool. She is strategic. She is focused. Her thoughts are logical and precise, because she has a good handle on the game, and thus, her mind does not betray her.

Or in short, the difference between town and scum is the difference between chaos and order. Now, obviously, this isn't absolute. There have been towngames where I've felt in control, rare as they may be. There have been scumgames where I was chaotic, either by circumstances or in one or two cases me faking my town chaos convincingly. But it IS a fairly solid general guideline. I know what I'm doing as scum; I'm just taking my best guess and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks as town.

I bet she has quite a few "playstyles" (and she knows, I think, why I'm saying this.)

Indeed I do. Fairly certain I said so already in this game, too, the reason why: because my play in games is fluid, thanks to situational awareness. While I might not know what's going on as town, I can generally feel out the game and have an idea for what will work best, adapting to have a playstyle specific to that game. It's mildly helpful, since it lets me hone in on scum better, but situational awareness mostly helps me as scum, because as scum, adapting my play to the game when I have more info than my town self does is

lethally

effective.

Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.

I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.

Right, that's another one I need to add in.

How To Read Mastin

:

Are you zMuffinman?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you AngryPidgeon?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?

Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.

Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?

Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.

THE FLOWCHART:

Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.

Does Mastin look town?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.

Trust her as town.

What does she do?

Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.

Suddenly pressure her.

What does she do?

Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.

Is she posting up a storm?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she waffling...
...A lot?

Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she antagonizing everyone?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she irrational?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she spewing random illogical theories?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does her posting look intentional?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.

Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is her tone flat?

No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

(BONUS:

If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of the

current

gamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?

No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)

And finally...

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.

Is Mastin's posting wildly inconsistent?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
No-->Proceed.)

(Oh, and I think rambling in-thread's already there*, but if not, it should be.)
*Relies on scum having daychat. Scum have daychat, in-thread rambling = decent towntell. Scum don't have daychat, rambling = prob-null, maybe slight townlean. Scum daychat ambiguous, assume slight townlean.

(Oh, should be noted. Last scum, rambling in-thread gets upgraded to major towntell, since scuMastin typically keeps rambles to the scum QT about why she's screwed.)

Totally should just, in general, take this policy about me.
There's a flowchart that I plan to publish that will give better tells for reading me in general, some of which are timeless, others which are in contemporary site meta, but valuable all the same. Until it's actually published, though, the general policy I have on reading me is, increasingly, becoming:

Just assume I'm town until you have a REALLY solid reason not to. You'll be right the VAST majority of the time, by sheer probability alone.

(In fact, beyond probability. Probability says I should be scum a minimum of 25% of the time. 2014's been something like half that overall.)

It'll save you a BUNDLELOADS of headaches.

(Should be noted that my record was 34 games IN A ROW as town and my scumgame remains STILL below statistical probability in numbers.)

"If you're townreading Mastin, lynch her. She's scum, having successfully predicted your movements and is manipulating you. You fell into her trap, hook, line, and sinker.
If you're scumreading Mastin, she's town; save her from the lynch. She's probably either really onto something or really lost. In either case, she needs your help, either to sheep her or help her develop more accurate reads."

Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.

(Note of course that the flowchart is never 100% accurate. It's impossible, literally impossible, to display all of them in a single game since many of them are in fact slightly contradictory, but the point is to see as many as possible and if the majority matches town or scum. This chart has been in play for quite a while, now, and to this date, in spite of no active attempts to uphold it and some attempts as scum to subvert it, remains highly relevant to my play. It goes to prove my point, though: scuMastin always has this laser-like focus. Anything Goes in particular, until I faked having my confidence shattered, I was pushing for a specific lynch. In games like Resistance where I was the last living scum in lylo, I wove a narrative specific to one player being scum because I held focus. In my entire scumgame career, holding focus has done nothing but serve me well. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. Because guess what? People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a lynch. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to mislynch anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. So damn fucking straight. Maybe someday I'll flail as scum. It could in theory be this game. But in practice? Fuck no. As scum I'd push a lynch through; as town, here I am without a clue.)

(I really need to also add a section in there about explicitly blowing up.
I don't think I've ever thrown f-bombs around as scum freely, aside from some trolling in L4D when I literally claimed scum in-thread once I realized Molla had a guilty on me.
As town, you'll note, I go absolutely ballistic, and for damn fucking good reason. Lynching me has never done a town favors, ESPECIALLY not in the lategame.)

^That's how. ('Course, the flowchart was developed for single-ball games. I actually have no clue myself how well it does or doesn't hold up in multiball.)

(I just realized that an item not on the flowchart but which should be is how I explain my reads:
"Does she explain her reads in crystal clarity?
No-->Almost certainly town, though you can proceed as a precaution just in case.
...Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
Yes-->Proceed.")

Not included: "Is she doing anything?"
Yes-->Well, go read what she's doing, dummy!
No-->She's probably fighting a flake.

Doesn't tell you alignment, but is useful to have on there anyway.

Frankly this game is probably the closest game I've had all year to textbook traditional mastina play.

Well it appears like you worked on at least checking a few of the initial steps in the flowchart.....but if I ignore a few of the early steps id have to go down quite far in that flowchart towards the scum conclusion.

My eye, it is watching you Mastina

[Vecna]

feel free to ask me about any of those because I got my notepad tagged of posts by each player and how they got to the list.

How did I get on the list? Tell me so I know in the future how to get that easy GT townread, I think we'll be running into eachother more often.

[Vecna]

You know what would help me get my shit together? Not having to read ten new pages every fucking time I come to this thread, so that I have the time to actually read the fucking thread.

Like.
To go into more detail here.
I feel like I could actually get people here to mostly stop fighting.
I feel like I could actually maybe get people to be unified.
Like. In this game, there are THIRTEEN players I have experience with--not just a little, but quite a bit.
Like. That's almost the entire game. So not only should I have relatively accurate reads...
...But even if I didn't.
Even if I fucking sucked.
...I should be able to UNIFY those players because of them I know how to work with a minimum of nine--more than enough to get a lynch going.

I feel like I should be able to do so. I feel like I should be able to tell people: "Stop going after these players; you're being stupid to do so." I feel like I should be able to be doing that right now, to be getting them to work together and actually fucking unifying the town on a front to lynch a player who is actually scum.

But this game is draining my stamina faster than it by all rights should. I'm getting exhausted just trying to keep pace on the game--yet alone, make progress in it. I'm doing what I can, but sorry, I can't function at 100% in these conditions. Not yet anyway. Not until I can get my full fire back ignited.

Could I interest you in some Adderall?

First off:

Second, does Mastina make these type of "im your prophet, if I had more time id do these great works" type of posts as scum? It feels overly towny, just wondering if that it can be done by design or whether she can just go into the obv-town pile now.

[Vecna]

Holy shit Ankamius is the counterwagon to Creature.

Vote: Creature

.
I actually think Creature should be lynched regardless of whether he's town or scum now.

What.....why?

Ankamius is sooo much better than creature.

Can you explain this?

[Vecna]

How does anyone see 2462 and think “This is Town”? Really? I don’t understand you people at all. That post is basically a flat out lie since Maj has multiple times shown his large post refuting Creature’s stance on wagons. That clearly is part of his scum read. I mean … if you want to say SAD is a junk player who posts things obviously untrue as Town … that doesn’t resonate with me but that is the only explanation I can come up with .

Same with 249 – that isn’t Town talking to someone who is still on their scum list right there. That's light threatening ...

--

i could lynch jiffy for how shit his engagement this game is.

I don’t get this … while Majiffy’s been leading the wagon on Creature more or less at the expense of any other scum reads (aside from SAD / Vifam / maybe you) he at least is honest about having too many Town reads and pushing what he does think is scum. I don’t see this as shit engagement. Shit engagement would be Sakura or Yoshi.

If you think he’s scum for not Town reading you then … meh.

--

I thought I was scum?

Pick a narrative my man he's either trying to buddy me because he's scum or we're partners in which case it isn't buddying.

It’s quaint that you are trying to float that I have a “false narrative” here for multiple reasons. Firstly the fact that scum can’t “buddy” in thread to lay false leads is clearly not the case … it happens all the time. So that’s strike one to the false dichotomy. Secondly the fact that you seem to be saying here “You can’t look for multiple scum and once you have a read you can’t explore other scum in the off chance you are wrong” is also pretty specious.

Not that frankly I’d expect anything less from you.

--

Objection.
I did change my mind.
Ank hadn't posted much up to that, and by calling MoI town just based on this improptu wagon, SAD's interpretation that Ank knows MoI is town made more sense. I didn't like the wagon at first either, and just sheeped that opinion.

Overruled. I find your “I was thinking so little about what I posted the first time it that ScumAD’s post completely changed my mind” a pretty lacking explanation. Do you normally just sheep without putting any modicum of thought into your posts?

Geez MoI, you sure got a lot from only a few posts of mine, didn't you?

Wow it’s like the point of the game is to look at posts and assess whether them make sense and might be coming from a fraudulent perspective …

And I guess I'll have to make this clear, this doesn't imply that I think Creature is town. Again, I like the thought process behind it.
I still think Creature is scum.

So you think ScumAD’s post that was a blatant lie is Town-read worthy but think he’s so bad that you still think Creature is scum?

--

It is specifically because you are in the pool that I need to tread carefully, MoI.

If I was townreading you, there would be no issue. If you townread me and I townread you we could effectively leave it at that and ignore each other entirely. It's day one, so it's not like we'd be likely to ever need to work together, so no repeat of Steven Universe 2. No treading on eggshells, no special measures needed, because nothing I say matters/would be relevant to you, and likely vice-versa too.

...But because I'm not townreading you (though you apparently are townreading me), there IS the issue. Because I'm not townreading you, there's treading on eggshells because there's the whole awkwardness of the situation. It's unpleasant, but also my fault, and something that therefore warrants caution.

And this is why I said at the end of SU2 we should never cross paths. This is what I’ve come to expect from you – mind-blowingly worthless posting. I am basically ignoring your reads because your PoE pool is typical overwrought mastin junk. The only think holding me back from solidly putting you in down as Town is the fact that you haven’t acknowledged that you always scum read me which you have admitted to publicly before as Town. The fact that you are hiding behind some garbage PoE but are not willing to really press the issue is why I haven’t turned your posts to “Auto Skip” at this stage.

And 2552 is why I do ignore you if I Town read you …

And now that I see 2575 I really have to question my Town read. Because after Defcon and SU2 you thinking you are some grand unifying force that people would flock to is pretty absurd and makes me question how much this is just empty grandstanding meant to ape your “Town Mastin” persona.

Reading posts like this really makes me wonder if MoI is......alright.

Moi....are you alright?

[Vecna]

So, do you think SAD is whiteknighting or defending a buddy with Creature? Right now, SAD is propping up the Ankimaus counterwagon.

WhiteKnighting. ScumAD would probably bus the shit out of a scum-partner in Creature given he's basically spewing nonsensical stuff in his posts. Also, Defcon Day 2 says that ScumAD doesn't hard defend a partner going down since he knows there is every chance that he gets lynched in response the next day if he doesn't NK me. And I hope I've already made it clear that me biting the dust tonight is basically a guilty on both SAD and Vecna.

If you could jump as far as your logic leaps, you'd be the premier mode of inter-planetary transportation.

[Vecna]

Btw, I'd rather not townread anyone out of someone else. Because if that someone else turns out to be town, then I'd realise I wasted the entire day with bullshit.

Only creature can make these type of sentences, that noone but creature understands

[Vecna]

Anyway my lynch prefs in order

Ank
Majiffy
Rem/Ram
maybe Titus

I don't think both Rem Ram and Majiffy are scum together though. But I think if Creature were to ever flip town one of them is 99% scum.

I think you should probably focus less on Majiffy....really dont see a scum majiffy here, and I think youre being influenced by him agitating you.

[Vecna]

Right now, if you died, I would be suspect town had a vig. I would take your reads into account, but you're working with no one. I think SAD might be scum, but reads being filtered through that assumption don't do much for anyone. If SAD dies and flips town, your posts are near worthless.

Even I once or twice break meta reads like that. What a player does depends on the situation as much as the tendencies/preferences of the players. For instance, I had to bus in Street Fighter to be involved in any major wagon. Strategy meta depends a fair amount on what SAD values.

I want you to disassociate from your convictions about meta. Tell me which posts fuel your belief in whiteknighting or defending a partner at least without relying on a meta read.

I hope I am not being to harsh as I respect you as a player.

Titus you don’t have to pretend … I know you don’t really care for me. You’ve made it clear over and over again. It doesn’t bother me so don’t put in the fake effort.

I don’t know why you are talking about meta here frankly. While I mention Defcon as a reason why I don’t see ScumAD as strong defending a partner that isn’t “ScumAD does this” it’s game-state driven. Creature’s not a strong player. He makes stupid moves as Town. Every game I’ve played with him he’s done stupid stuff that hurts Town. But that isn’t reason to Town read him … he could certainly make stupid moves as scum also.

Coming through ScumAD’s voluminous spam to point out specific post is a fucking chore BTW. I mean he’s already got 316 fucking posts.

But let’s poke around and see his Creature reads –

204 – Creature is Town for ????.
277 and 638 are more empty Creature is Town posts.
669 is the first time we get any sort of reasoning … and it is meta that scum Creature has no reads. 692 reiterates this stance.

Now read 1132 in depth on his Creature read. This is exactly the same manner he treated you just recently – “Creature is no longer Town as he voted me”. And then examine the following line –

I do not like the static reads however.

This is pretty much in direct contradiction to his earlier meta read that scum Creature would not have reads at all. And ScumAD floats that he has limited Creature experience. Why strongly meta-read Creature in the first place if he’s now saying he doesn’t have a huge base of experience to make that meta read? He ends that read with “Creature is just probably VI”.

In 1154 he floats he needs to actually do a meta read on Creature. Again – his whole Town reading Creature earlier makes no sense from Town given it was meta-driven. Question to ask yourself – did this meta read ever materialize? The answer is – nope.

In 1386 Creature has dropped to Null.

1789 is defending Creature from Majiffy. 1793 is more empty “man that wagon on Creature stinks”. 1816 is further defending Creature via downplaying the wagon when Majiffy has repeatedly shown why Creature’s statements about his wagon are incorrect.

Meanwhile ScumAD is maintiaing his Null status on Creature. He floats that if Creature was scum it was with Sakura at 1820 . And 1873 is basically revoking this already not solid Meta read. And we get the fluffy 2025 which looks like an attempt to sort of say that lack of emotion is scummy. And at 2026 Creature is down. ScumAD’s last reads list had Creature as Null so at best he should be leaning scum. Which 2028 confirms.

2228 posits two posts by Creature as Townish for … reasons …

Let’s compare his recent “willing to lynch list” at 2300 with his last reads post …

Tier list

Gork, Vecna, RickAndreas
Yoshi, Vifam, Marquis, mastina
beeboy, MoI, Sakura
Spiffeh, Majiffy, Creature, Ank, Rem/Ram
Voices

Oh I can go for a beeboy lynch too I guess. Though I kinda liked the post where he made a tier list and had a bunch of townreads, felt okay. But we can add him to The List.

Ank
VoT
Rem/Ram
Majiffy
Beeboy

I don't think I would be happy with any other.

Noteable that Creature is a LeanScum read that ScumAD isn’t willing to lynch. Why?

I mean if you look through his ISO as ScumAD is presenting it you should come to the conclusion that Creature should be an acceptable lynch. But ScumAD is spending basically fighting the lynch simply because it is being pushed by Majiffy. Not because he Town reads Creature. But to make Majiffy look bad.

That doesn’t say “Defending a Partner” at all. That says “I’m going to use this flip that I know is Town despite me calling it a ScumLean against someone else and making sure I lay that groundwork today”.

Which is WhiteKnighting … or a variant I guess you could say.

Complaining about SAD's volume when every post you make is like a BORG-block floating through space

[Vecna]

but it's scum trying to dismantle a good one when I do it.

Do you oppose someone's lynch because the players voting them are all scum or you actually townread that someone?

A combination of scum+null reads hopping on the wagon, the speed it took off with, and the laughably bad reasoning it took off with.

Still ignoring the fact I told them there were well documented reasons, but that he was just too lazy to read up on them.

Now its suddenly laughably bad reasoning?

So DID YOU, or DID YOU NOT read up on it ank?

[Vecna]

B: Plenty of scum are already on the wagon and scum would rather not pile all of themselves there.

So you think despite all the

other, faster wagons

that I've pointed to that

empirically exist throughout the day

Scum started up their own wagon on town

which has taken

tremendous effort to even keep going

amidst

all the other wagons

Because...?

No. Your argument is pants-on-head to support your false narratives that you have tied yourself to.

This argument, and the argument that creature is scum because the creature wagon isnt going fast enough is nonsense.

Its logic that hardly ever works on day1. Scum is not gonna pile on to hammer town unless they can provide proper logic to do so, since theyre afraid of the fallback. You are full aware of this, so dont make weak arguments like this please. If its later in the game it might hold more water if scum is closer to endgaming it, but in this state? nope

[Vecna]

Because I don't think you're scum, just bad.

Ok lets float this argument

Spoiler: So far so good, although troubling that you want to lynch town so much instead of scumhunting

Reminder to not let Majiffy live to MyLo/LyLo unless mechanically confirmed.

Majiffy's also a good lynch after R&R.

Spoiler: But wait what's this

From my wagon, I have like:
{VoT}
{BYF, R&A}
{beeboy, Majiffy}
{R&R}

Am I missing someone?

Also, VoT still needs to work more to be a hard townread.

VoT/Sakura/Majiffy/Steven scumteam???

I agree on Majiffy and Steven/Ankamius, I'm unsure on VoT.

Spoiler: Now you *definitely* can't say you're not calling me scum

Okay, Rem and Ram + Majiffy

Let's look for their partners.

Okay, Rem and Ram + Majiffy

Let's look for their partners.

Your argument is that after bussing my partner, I decided to piggyback my partner's vote directly and we both spent the entire time railroading a townie in the face of no momentum while other wagons cropped up themselves without our assistance?


Good luck with that.

idk, I'm used to see bussing everywhere in any form.

Spoiler: Wait is he backing off

I trust town they won't hesitate to lynch R&R before D3 and that they won't let Majiffy ever reach to endgame unless he's 100% sorted.

Spoiler: Nope! Chuck Testa!

I'll keep waiting the rest of the town to come here, I'm tired of arguing with scum, I doubt they would selfvote.

He's arguing with me here

We're arguing, and in your PoV it should be very likely that either I am scum or R&R and Majiffy are scum together.

Likely R&R + one of {Majiffy, BigYoshiFan, Gorkington} (leaning on Majiffy significantly more than others)

idk, I feel like Majiffy is just adjusting how my wagon goes as the standard scum wagon.

Wished someone gave a desperado shot for Majiffy. Wonder if he would still use it or admit he's scum.

Spoiler: Holy fuck the irony on this one in particular, amirite ladies and gentlemen?

If Majiffy has any other scumread, he hasn't put any effort to sort them.

Spoiler: Anyway back to business

Yeah, I get lynched, I flip town and Majiffy/Rem and Ram will be like "oh he was just scummy town" and then they'll tunnel another innocent. We gotta do something about them.

Because I don't think you're scum, just bad.

What a ride!

Present your fucking case. You have failed to do so time and time again.

So he flip-flops a lot because you're death-tunneling him. So what, that doesnt mean jack shit, especially coming from creature - he does that all the time even without this much pressure.

[Vecna]

The entire scumteam is almost certainly in


{Creature, Vifam, SAD, Gork, Spiffeh, Nahdia}

I'd place money on it if I had any.

And he's off the deep end. Very relatable.