Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]
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Vecna
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Vecna Survivor
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Here's the thing, and this applies to the long post from Gorkington as well.In post 12588, RadiantCowbells wrote:Like I don't think it's hard to go into demoralized!Leon pov and see why he'd both be willing to follow me and why it would rejuvenate his interest in the game.
That thing that most of you seem to scumread is imo one of the best reasons to townread him. I know exactly what that feels like and I've felt that way with other people and seen many, many people react similarly to my replace ins.
Ive played with Leonshade in Code Geass, where I got to witness town-Leonshade, possibly at its finest. Yes this is going to be a meta-read. Boo-hoo.
In that game he took upon him the role of town-leader and prime-time investigator. He constantly was hunting for ways to identify what occurred (it was a bastard game though with a ton of mechanics), he constantly was trying to figure out the mechanics and what worked best for town - and he was damn involved in the process of motivating people who to vote for and pushing wagons. YES even before there was a scumflip. He definately become more involved the longer the game went on though, and he had the scumteam on the ropes and grasping at ways to shut him down. He didnt go with the flow, and actually opposed the loudmouths in that game to get us on the right track. We lynched scum 5/6 days. It was glorious, even though the scumteam + 3rd party were INCREDIBLY overpowered town still won that game with ease (the 3rd party could cult people, become nearly immortal, could mind control people, and had a redirect - and on top of that the scumteam + third party could achieve a joint victory).
So yes, knowing what Leonshade is capable of I feel cheated this game. I also know by going through his Iso that he can put up a convincing game as scum, but its nowhere near as involved. Just surface artifical decent play.
This game; He doesnt get involved with the game on the same level. Resolutions? Id expect there to be a great Leonshade presence arguing about ways how town can benefit from a certain choice. Have we seen that? If so, I certainly dont remember it. Instead, we get arguments during resolutions like "we dont need information on flips, we can just make people claim it!" (this was the last resolution phase).
His reads this game are extremely "go-with-the-flow" for the entire game. His thought patterns and reads have been a copy of mine on day1 and day2. You can go check and compare it - theyre pretty much identical. He posts his thoughts, sure - and the way he did this in day1 and day2 I was definately townreading him for it.....but theres no drive behind it. No desire to figure things out, or have new opinions that push town forward. And this is exactly the thing that is super hard to fake for most scum (and I havent seen him do this either in any of his scum games).
Apathy is a thing, sure. We were doing better in Code Geass, sure. But Leonshade as town I wouldve expected to be right in the middle of shit solving everything. Yes, there is plenty of stuff to analyze and dive into this game. He also WANTED nearly all wagons we got, and he was right there voting for them. So why would he be apathetic about it, and blame it on BIG EGO's? Id expect town Leonshade to take responsibility and use the information we gained from those mislynches to solve shit. BUT. HES. NOT. DOING. IT.
Instead we now see him just flowing with whereever the pressure goes. Gorkington got roleblocked? Ok ill vote. RC coming in to push Nero? Sure, nero is scum! how did I not see it all along.
Now Id like all these people like Mathblade and RC to come in here and tell me why they have such a strong townread on the slot. Are you not aware of how good Town Leonshade can be? Go read Code Geass then. And read a bunch of his scumgames. Tell me of which his play here reminds you most.-
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Vecna Survivor
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I can agree to that 100%. Id like town to get the 2nd roleblocker and be on Gorkington though.In post 12591, RadiantCowbells wrote:my read on your slot hasn't changed. I think that you're town but I could see you as scum. I think you should be roleblocked either way because it takes away wifom with your wonder if Davesaz is town in this game.-
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Consider the last part of your post addressed.In post 12582, Gorkington wrote:i think the worst part about this game.
is that there are 500+ pages.
and 3 people with postcounts in this game equal to ~a quarter~ of my entire posting history on this account.
and the last serious reason i remember for someone thinking someone was scum in a way that was even remotely tangible was nero's thoughts on nancy.
is it too much to ask for the casing in this game to get condensed down into tangible shit that i can actually digest? and not just HEY THIS PERSON'S TONE?
tone only means something to me if its based on direct experience with someone.
i could metadive if life wasnt shitting in my mouth, but as such, thats not happening.
if you quote posts at me and say "LOOK AT THIS TONE" it means nothing to me.
if you point at a person and say "LOOK ITS SCUM" it means nothing to me.
explain things at me like im dumb as fuck.
because im really tired of floating through this game feeling like i have absolutely nothing to hold onto.
and very little of whats being pushed is sticking with me at all.
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LEONSHADE
im trying really hard not to focus on him scumbinning me.
with literally nothing so much as an update on anything since his first interactions with me.
which my gut is growling at really hard but i dont really trust that.
i also think its probable that he could just not be reading?
i thought some of his stuff on nero was decent.
i felt similarly about nero's selfvote seeming weirdly premature.
i havent seen any serious push in terms of strong confident reasoning on him being scum which i could have missed, but i think its kind of concerning that i cant even remember a vague reason why people are calling him scum?
i think if this was a town on scum wagon or a scum on scum wagon there would be more justification and less "well lets consensus on a ??????", which is the vibe im getting.
it feels more like scum taking advantage of apathy.
bolded are all big big big question marks.
and even ali/senpai are wavering townleans for me.
tldr:
why is leon a scum
*the leon wagon feels really really bad.*
why is vecna not a scum
this game is ruining my sleep schedule.
Id like for you to expand on my presence being very "selective" though because this I really do not agree with. I feel i've addressed nearly everything and then some, and with passion and determination. Your other points I can agree with, I would do all those things as scum. Possibly not quite as detailed and honest as I think it has been so far in this game, but I cannot argue with you that is probably how Id approach it.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Random roleblocks are terrible, given the likelyhood to hit some of the town PR's. Theres not a damn lot of scum wonders that are going to be blocked. And if Gorkington -is- scum he's the one with the janitor ability. Roleblocking gives us information.In post 12600, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think this is one of the most obvious town replace ins that I've done, behind newbie 1770. Most of the reason Leon scumread my predecessor was for lack of activity and I stand by the fact that scum!Drixx would never have pulled what he did in this game and that anyone who knows him would know that.
Like idk I'm not 100% certain that they're town and I don't want to be held to that but I don't have a reason to scumread him and I have reasons to townread him.
I mean, sure, Kidamn might be town. I don't think that he is. I've given my general scum blob and don't plan to hammer it out further at this time.
Also I want to point out that I was the ONLY PERSON in TTH's game that called Leonshade as scum so I think that my read on that slot should be taken with a grain of salt.
Pedit: I'll respond about Leon in the morning; I want to go to bed.
and lol. I mean we're on evens so I think that the roleblocker if it goes to town should be used to try to prevent nightkills but not the worst thing in the world either.-
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Vecna Survivor
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New vecna readslist for Leonshade to copy:
Town;
Vecna
Luv
Nancy
Mathblade
Cloudkicker
Probably town;
Davesaz
Alisae
Caesar (on the condition of palaces being built)
Gorkington/Nero/RC (biggest question marks in this group)
Dont know;
Maxous
Creature
NoticeMeSenpai
Lynchpool/scumpool
KidAmn
Leonshade-
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Vecna Survivor
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Wagon responses today;
Gorkington; FU ALL, let me townpost and try to salvage my slot and fuck up this vecna scrub in the process
Nero; Boohoo, selfvote - followed by a lot of posting of varying quality (some of which I thought was pretty indicative of town)
Leonshade; Boohoo, im so demotivated, I have no defence except that I dont care about solving the mess that I was a part of creating
Kidamn; Boohoo, too much posting, go ahead and lynch me.
yeah.....-
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Vecna Survivor
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Please dont....It should be on Nero or Ceasar.In post 12640, nancy wrote:They're close as baby kittens.
Tbh I'm kind of tempted to compete for the IC with Pine just because there are so many Town SRing me for god knows why and if Town could just stop SRing Town we might actually lynch scum in this game.-
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Trying to get him to explain stuff. Everything he's done is completely NAI to me, and I want to gauge his reasons for scumreading luv/me.In post 12644, nancy wrote:Oh yeah Vecna is trying to PL him I forgot.-
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In post 12651, Nero Cain wrote:Alisae-was sheeping RC
MathBlade-say I'm plating like Gunslingers, caims they have more
Leonshade-I'm not scumhunting, I'm randomly arguing with ppl
Creature-????
RadiantCowbells-I'm ignoring "things" What things, RV won't tell us.
Vecna-I am playing like a Deathnote.
Maxous-I haven't been nighkilled yet
nancy-was OMGUS scum reading me
What well reasoned and thought out stances! Besides the obvious scum here (RC, Alisae, maybe Nancy, maybe Math) you guys are fucking trash.
Why do you keep doing this, even though ive been protecting you and providing a shitton of reasons why youre likely town? Also the thing that you play like Deathnote was from what? Like day1 or day2? Ever since ive been stating you play different.In post 12655, Nero Cain wrote:and if we are doing translation here let me do Vecna.
Someone thinks I'm scum? Let me beat my chest.
Like, you know im town - you even state so here in this block of town - but why do you feel the need to keep attacking me?-
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Answer my questionIn post 12668, Nero Cain wrote:I'm town as fuck bro.-
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Oh, it was meant to say block of posts. typing error. Also, see my last list of reads?In post 12671, Nero Cain wrote:
I never knew I had any town bock though if you mean that I think you are maybe less likely to be scum of the ppl with scumreads on me then yeah.In post 12667, Vecna wrote:Like, you know im town - you even state so here in this block of town - but why do you feel the need to keep attacking me?
I just think its really odd that you keep me as a substantially strong scum read in your reads lists and threat me like I'm scum/null. At this point in time I'm fairly lynchable due to I guess, maybe not falling in line and wanting to wagon the same mislynches over over and over again. (Yuri, ABR, Bee) There hasn't been a halfway decent case on me the whole game.
Why, if you keep presenting evidence for why you think I'm town, do I never move up in your reads? Its like you are taking out of both sides of your mouth.-
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.....yeah, this slot is sounding way more town than both RC and Leon combined on the last few pages.In post 12729, KidAmn wrote:
I mean this is simply not true, but you don't seem to let things like facts get in the way of you just bulldozing your way through and yelling declarations instead of providing substance, which seems to be the modus operandi of most of my SRs so y'knowIn post 12723, RadiantCowbells wrote:everyone agrees that his reads are shit.
"I'm better than all of you so shut up and listen to me" is not exactly compelling reason to do so, and tbh the irony of you shitting on people for thinking they're god's gift to Mafia isRadiantCowbells wrote:and yeah this game does have ego problems.there's tons of people in this game who think they are gods gift to mafia and overestimate the threat that they feel they pose to scum. none of you are good enough to force scum to bus in a game where they don't want to bus and with the quality of your reads this game you aren't even pushing the issue. KidAmn is still probably scum but I don't want to commit to that vote because it's so much riskier than Nero. Nero is an amazing wagon; you policy lynch someone whose reads are outside of believability if he's town and you break someone who has been getting defended by scum all game as scum.
but no everyone's stuck thinking they're the absolute shit and after lynching town every day before I got here you still think your reads are better than mineH I L-ARIOUSgiven the way you've approached this game, but you're scum so it's okay for you to be a hypocrite and I'm sure Alisae, Leon, Creature and Maxous will all be along to explain that-
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Vecna Survivor
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It was pointed out youre either town or scum together.In post 12779, Maxous wrote:
me and creature were cop investigatedIn post 12775, nancy wrote:So can anyone tell me why I'm supposed to be TRing Creature aside from the fact that he hasn't been lurking all game?
this was pointed out-
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Given your insistence on your wrong read on me (even though you keep adressing me like you know that im town) - im gonna go ahead and ignore your reads vigilantly unless you can do something else but state "He's a large townread, its uuuuuyge".In post 12789, MathBlade wrote:
Don't even think about it. Leonshade is town.In post 12777, Vecna wrote:Nancy, Nero, and one from the KidAmn wagon: Its hammer time. Hammer leonshade.
Go.-
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Funny how you only state then when people do things you dont like.In post 12807, RadiantCowbells wrote:I feel like Vecna might be scum here and KidAmn might be town-
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Yeah, Davesaz be on me and Nero please. This Nero vs RC thing doesnt tell us anything if RC is scum tunneling town Nero.In post 12808, RadiantCowbells wrote:If I die tonight and you don't autolynch Nero you deserve what's coming to you.
I would love to see a Nero/Vecna parity. Creature you roleblock Vecna.-
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Talk to me Nancy, who are your scumreads, because the last 30 pages have turned a lot of my scumreads into near-townreads.In post 12815, nancy wrote:How the fuck do I have six scumreads what even is this game.-
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In post 12819, nancy wrote:davesaz should just be on whomever he likes.
I mean my scumreads are kind of irrelevant at this point in the day because Leonshade is clearly the only lynch that is happening.
I asked you if you'd lynch in Gorkington/KidAmn, YOU picked and said there was a clear connection between Nero and KidAmn.In post 12820, RadiantCowbells wrote:Anyway so I was digging for KidAmn meta because of your Yuri townread and this game does feel a lot like duck duck goose.
I'm not like confident but I think that slot might be town which makes me really sketched out by Vecna trying to make me compromise on Kid over Nero.
Dont be trying to turn things around mr liar liar. If Leonshade flips scum here you are so next tomorrow.
Dodgy ass wonky play, where youre trying to bait me into voting with you just because you think you can hold the scumread that Math and a few others have over me to force my hand.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna
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Also, I still think Creature + Maxous are scum together more likely than town btw.
Creature not doing anything else with his roleblock-reveal after we decided to ignore it is.....weird.
Both slots not even talking to eachother after they shouldve been confirmed town to eachother is FUCKING WEIRD.
Both slots being very inactive after that reveal is fucking weird.
Lot of weird stuff going on with them 2 now that I think about it.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna Survivor
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What? where did I ever predict Maxous would be copped?In post 12862, Leonshade wrote:2/15 are already low odds to catch two scum, so a random cop check would most likely hit town.
Creature's playing his town game, so that raises the odds way higher.
Maxous, while meh, has been different from his Undertale game, raising the odds ever so slightly higher.
Creature/Maxous is not scum. If Maxous is scum, Vecna is gis buddy and predicted that Maxous would be copped (incredibly unlikely) or davesaz is scum and faked the result (pretty unlikely).
Also, creature has done a few things that pinged me as potentially scum this game. Very little, but its possible.
Maxous is different from PYP, and doesnt show much interest in hunting this game for some reason.
I could totally see it, especially after their weird reactions after the result was published.-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna
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If you cross Math and Nancy off here, I think you might be eerily close.In post 12870, Nero Cain wrote:I have way more than 5 scumreads
Ali
Math
Nancy
RC
Leon
Gork
and a side eye @Caesar Notice
Either that or creature + maxous replace any 2 here, but I do feel this could definitely be the scumteam.-
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Vecna Survivor
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You havent explained your read on Leonshade (afaik?)In post 12883, MathBlade wrote:
That is actually the best time to cop me because then when I die it acts as a traditional cop on the other player.In post 12867, Nero Cain wrote:Well...Math is hopefully going to get shot soon so I rather not cop them...idk.
Seriously. Nero is not Town.
And stop the bullshit about not explaining my reads I do.
You havent explained why your still scumreading me
What about Nancy? Some updates on how current stuff influences your reads?-
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Vecna Survivor
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Vecna
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Leon, you know full well that im town so shading me if you are town here really isnt the way to go. All of this falls into the category too little too late. Regaining your desire to post when youre about to die is just too convenient and I can see all of it coming from scum just the same. You stated before you completely understand the scumread on your slot, and im simply not willing to go back now.
All the people that you mention as possible scum just feel more town than you atm.-
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Except creature has been willing to vote pretty much everywhere this game, Alisea was voting you a short while ago as well, and you have disagreed with pretty much all of Mathblade's reads all game.
Even RC has showed doubts regarding your slot recently, and lurkers will return. Youre hammered as soon as Davesaz returns, thats for sure.
What posts of mine havent you liked recently? Because you completely agreed with my reasons for scumreading you and you were fine with the way I read Gorkington. You dont like the way I approached Gorkington/Nero/CK/KA? Then show me what part of my reasoning you dont like. Because you sure havent called me out on any of it. So now im calling you out; what part of my posts didnt you like?-
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And the fact you can seriously say this already should make everyone realize how anti-town you are. Why in the world would you want to put up msg's like that and make it more interesting for scum to NK you if youre town?In post 12950, RadiantCowbells wrote:If I die everyone is going to sheep MathBlade for the rest of the game. you've all forfeited your rights to have votes
Guys we need to lynch Leonshade here. It is the prime information lynch. And its gonna flip scum.
RC has been protecting the slot
Alisae was voting/bussing the slot earlier but is now flat-out refusing to vote it.
Maxous has been conveniently absent during all of this
Creature has been literally willing to vote everyone to get hammers but not here?
So yes Leonshade, to answer your earlier question (quoted below): if you are scum, I feel the only option of scum on your wagon is Notice. My reads progression has been documented. If youre town I NEED to know today, because then ive had a misread and I need to take RC a hell of a lot more serious.
In post 12946, Leonshade wrote:
Huh? What happened to your reads that they got to this point?In post 12940, Vecna wrote:And all scum are probably in the list you just put up, congratsIn post 12947, Leonshade wrote:Even ignoring everything else, for all scum to be on that list, zero scum would have to be on that wagon.
Did you hear that RC? If you really want your support for your Nero wagon tomorrow, this Leonshade hammer NEEDS to happen.-
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How would I have predicted that those 2 were gonna be the target? Why wouldnt I have been on myself?In post 12952, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also keep in mind that if Vecna is scum Davesaz's result on Creature/Maxous is unreliable. Luckily with the way the gamestate has gone I believe that they are in fact both town but it is super important that Vecna is RBed tonight.
Either way, RB on me is fine.-
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And how would you notice this? Its kinda weird because I also had a long drawn-out thought under the shower this morning about potential Davesaz + Maxous teams and the potential chaos they could sow if theyd been lucky enough to over-prio town on that wonder.In post 12959, RadiantCowbells wrote:Davesaz makes a ton of sense as town if Vecna is confscum btw. I just feel weirded out by the fact that it doesn't feel like scum are scared of Davesaz at this point in time.
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