Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

[Titus]

Narna, have you and Math spoke?

[Titus]

I could vote mhsmith or Ari. Insomniacs needs death though. If it was anyone else, would we tolerate their behavior?

[Titus]

Is Gamma still around? His activity has sort of dipped

- Scott

Gamma has lost site access due to RL. RC posted in the replacement queue. Ari and mhsmith are being replaced. We are waiting on Drixx.

We need to get the game moving. Insomniacs needs to die for refusing to make a claim Cerb can check. Don't care whether it is by vig or lynch, just let me know. The kill pattern makes Gamma slot near town.

[Titus]

pretty sure hes getting replaced everywhere.

im gonna do a hard-dive on smith tonight if i can, after that im probably completely gone until tuesday next week.

Gork, then we need to agree on what to do tonight. Spend time planning while you're gone. Trigger night so it falls so you can get night actions in.

[Titus]

i would rather clear out slots that could be scum.

the only hesitation i have is that narna is also biting on this whole "titus being a gunsmith and neighborizing role that is informed that her targets are town" thing. i kind of assumed only math would be willing to tinfoilhat that???? and its really weird that narna is too??

p-edit: i'll probably get internet in kingston at some point, i just probably wont be able to do anything substantive in-game.

The tinfoil hatting doesn't bother me. If scum buy that, I am more concerned that Math and Narna refuse to claim for the lie detector to be cleared and help break the game. Cerb seems willing to check Math too.

[Titus]

@Gork, I have already hit that. Cerb can only check statements made today, or we have to wait until Day 8. I don't see Math living until Day 8. I can gunsmith mhsmith or Ari. We should send a message that we'll get things out of Cerb's lie detector.

[Titus]

Look, even if you find Insomniacs to be town, the obstinance will get them killed. They have two votes on them. If we all rally to wagon them to claim, Cerb can check them and then we can lynch mhsmith or Ari.

[Titus]

math has a shelf-life of about 1-2 days in this game before refusing to claim starts looking awful. if they have nothing to back up why they didnt claim so that they could get cleared now, then theyre probably dying before endgame anyways. they should especially acknowledge that now.

@INSOM. you refusing to claim now and get cleared basically means that if your claim isnt going to clear you or make it clear why you opted not to claim now, then you basically are accepting that youre probably going to get lynched from paranoia in 2-3 days. i sincerely hope youre thinking that through.

Pretty much this. If insomniacs claims "VT" or some other bullshit like watcher (at this point in the game) im calling bullshit. His claim better make sense.

They are not going to claim though until we wagon them. That sets a dangerous precedent that gives scum a chance to stall.

In the words of DGB....

CLAIM STALL DETECTED.

[Titus]

@Gork

Lynch mhsmith.

Gunsmith for me. --- Random or Ari
Lie detect for Cerb --- Ginngie or Vedith
Vig --- Insomniacs or Wheme

Bus swap --- Vedith/Scott and Ramona?

[Titus]

@Scott and Ramona, This is Shaizro mafia Math all the way. I would fight it more but we need to start watching post count.

[Titus]

i really dont think that potential PRs should be in the vigpool titus.
like.
i get that you want math dead, but it just doesnt make any sense?
is the only way we're going to move forward here getting insom to claim targets for a lie detect?

That or Math dies.

Otherwise, every scum can act like Math does and get rewarded for it. I am still concerned about a blue team or amped up SK. Every scum left alive can soft and get away with it based on "paranoia" when this is Math's scum meta too.

[Titus]

Titus I'm confused about your Bus swap

Sorry.

I'll clarify that.

Vaxkiller should swap Vedith or Scott and Ramona with a cleared name.

[Titus]

Ok but why them

PoE from the uncleared.

We want 1 lynch. Mhsmith is good for avoiding this thread.
2 players who can be gsed in the gs pool (for safety you and Math cannot be here). Ari because popular consensus for one GS check, random because my scumread
You and Math are vigged because you are harder to check for investigates.
Cerb can lie detect Ginngie (who volunteered) or Vedith.

That leaves Scott and Ramona/PV here...

[Titus]

@Gork

You say you don't want to lynch Math... ok.
You say you don't want to vig Math... ok.
I can't check Math... ok.
Math refuses to make themselves detectable for Cerb... ok.

Just how do you want to progress the game?

[Titus]

Cerb seems to really trust Random, maybe swap me with him?

- Scott

I trust you more than random. I'd rather have the option of checking random.

[Titus]

Cerb can lie detect Ginngie (who volunteered) or Vedith.

Anything in particular you wish me to say?

Your role and all targets.

VT just says they rolecop as vanilla and are not a traitor. They also say no targets. That leaves goon open so not ai.

[Titus]

like what if insom is an important role in the hands of stubborn town and we shoot them and waste it? are you going to own that? or are you just going to blame math?

Straight up, I am blaming Math.

I tried including them in the gunsmith communication last night. They gave me two horrible checks.
I try to get decent communication from them, I still get a tunnel based on misinterpretations from Day 2. Any reasonable player would apologize, say I am wrong and recorrect. I can't really blame Narna for this because I couldn't help Math reset in Civ.
I try to clear them, and they resist. They resist in a manner that gives scum an out to slow the game or survive.

I can't do anything else to help save Insomniacs. I'm all out of options here Gork.

[Titus]

Hi mhsmith0.

Who is scum?

Pedit, Math neither of those statements are lie detectable.

[Titus]

They are according to the wiki.

I have an open question to the mod to explain publically if it wouldn't. See the bold.

Based on the mod's explanation it should be fine.

--Math

Cerb has said it isn't. Cerb has said his role cannot detect AI statements. You have been told this multiple times.

[Titus]

Ahh what the hell

I am a gunsmith. I targeted Cerb n1, Tywin n2, Almost n3, Shiro n4, and Drixx n5. I got guns on Tywin and Almost. Everyone else came back no gun.

I also can recruit finite players from a list to a Bebop pt. I have recruited all possible members that I am aware of. I could recruit in addition to my gunsmith act.

[Titus]

VOTE: Ari

mhsmith0 made himself lie detectable so...

[Titus]

The "I'm not a traitor" part might fuck things up. I don't know why everyone decided to throw that shit in.

It doesn't. I'm not a traitor is role indicative. It's left in to make the blue traitor subject to lie detection. Right now, the vanilla claimers could be goons who do not nightkill for your lie detect.

[Titus]

I requested that Cerb.

[Titus]

Can I just say;

I am either a VT or Goon.

Duh. That's so much more common sense. Thanks Vedith.

I am VT or goon, no targets.

[Titus]

then just agree to a pair of targets before night and then even if there are more statements, it doesnt really matter because youve committed to those two targets. anyone who argues to the contrary can go in the scumbin.

This. It also shows a willingness to actually be checked by players and locked into a claim. That's protown.

We also might even have a tracker out there which can catch lies in players you don't detect.

I apologize for making traitor detects more complicated but until we can be 100% sure no blue scum, that kinda has to happen.

[Titus]

Gork: that's acceptable as long as I'm the one calling out the targets, not someone else . If someone else is making the call, and I've ever expressed any desire to lie detect someone else( like vax, for example, or math), it muddies the waters.

Cerb, why don't you just pick your targets now? Since your targets must claim.

[Titus]

I'd like the other spectrum of targets to be decided first. I see suggestions from you and gork, but I would like agreement from those who are making the actions. Since gamma seems to have site flaked.....that will be difficult to do in the short term.

Pedit: I wouldn't replace out for a win, because then it wouldn't be my win..

@Cerb, You're presenting a paradox. If we puck first, by PoE that tells you who to check...

Unless you're wanting suggestions and you'll lock in first? I am confused.

Do you at least agree on the pool?

[Titus]

I'll basically do anything short of fakeclaiming that kills Math faster. They have no desire to actually see what the town needs and do it, then I'm ok with them dying.

[Titus]

i am becoming distressingly okay with the idea of math dying just to get both of you to stop talking about each other. math would be low on my priorities if you werent always bringing her up and even lower if she didnt constantly shade you. if both of you are town, please, for the love of god, DO NOT PLAY WITH EACH OTHER ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU COMPROMISE THE GAMESTATE WITH YOUR TUNNELS ON EACH OTHER.

I'm at this point too, but I am concerned if I blacklist them, then that will effectively be giving them a death sentence from the site.

[Titus]

There is no compromise, no protecting them from themselves, no convincing them of anything. I'm fully aware they could be civing this. They could be shaizro mafia. I can't tell. They put their own personal desires over that of town. Math isn't the only player that does this Gork. There's too many. This debate should have resolved sooner than this.

[Titus]

Wtf am I supposed to do when answering gets me mislynched and answering gets me lynched?

you could claim targets when your second strongest townread tells you his role probably isnt going to be able to reliably work on the stuff youve posted so far?

Claiming targets won't help him either. Bus driver.

I have said I didn't kill anyone. Same logic targeting a certain player won't work either.

Instead having FA explain it will help me help him. I am not claiming anything without certainty that is the only way it will help Cerb.

--Math

Then you claim who you attempted to target.

I attempted to target davesaz but then...

[Titus]

Spoiler:

I forgot to write in the special mechanic :V
Added in Day 1 start post.

Special Mechanic: Magic-Train style Neighborizing!

* Each player send a name to me. If two players choose each other, they form a neighbor until the end of Night 1.

ahhh, excellent, much better, fun! woo!

My alignment is sided with the town.

My alignment is sided with the town.

I'm town.

I'm town.

I'm town.

I'm town.

VOTE: MathBlade
Quoting gerry's claim here seems like an attempt to befuddle the detector.

I'm town.

I am Town.

This what I'm referencing.

Math will do whatever and at this point I'm coming to the conclusion that math won't submit any statement because they don't want to deal with the shit from that game

True, but we knew there was no lie detector since the start of the game there in Math's defense.

[Titus]

So wait, when Math KNOWS there isn't a lie detector, they tip toe around it and when we have it basically known that we have one, Math just outright refuses?

How is that a point in Maths favor?

It basically says their stubborn pride is NAI. Which it is.

I was a claimed doctor and Math kept tunnelling on me because "they needed me dead". I got fed up, policied them, and they flipped scum.

[Titus]

aight well, im done with this.
im not arguing with someone who's tinfoilhatting vax when NFkill makes no sense whatsoever without vax being town.
willing to wait for a gamma replacement that we can feed targets to, otherwise all thats really left to do is lynch one of ari or smith and iron out targets.

Let's just lynch Math at this point. Please. *puppy eyes*

[Titus]

If Gork goes VLA, I'm VLAing until this ends or Math can be lynched. I'm done arguing. I'll do whatever checks people want that aren't Math or Whemestar because I cannot check them. I'll hammer whatever lynch gets in range.

VOTE: Insomniacs

Laters. This is ridiculous. Math should be a fucking policy lynch ages ago.

[Titus]

*SIgh*

Then help end the day.

Game is dead until Math claims or is lynched anyway. No one's talking.

[Titus]

Math, my role says that anything directly or INDIRECTLY AI will always return a true result.

That's the problem, the indirectly bit, because they wont tell me how indirect things can be. I asked FA if something that wouldnot normally be AI, but was AI in the context of the game, would be considered AI, and she said it might be.


So that basically fucks up EVERYTHING.

Pedit: 95% math slot is town.

Their targets and role cannot be AI. Masonizer, mason, and IC are not in the game Cerb. They've implied not VT.

Can you think of any other statement that can be lie detected, short of dumb things like "Mathblade is in a hydra called Insomniacs."?

[Titus]

(I'd also like to note that smith is, again, doing a thing I'd be doing as scum(which is funny), that is, attempting to construct a scenario where it makes sense for town to kill someone scum want dead for them.

How? I actually liked that post, if mhsmith0 wasn't avoiding talks entirely. He's correct about the 2 millers point even if he places the wrong significance.

[Titus]

Ok I totally missed the vig masons comment.

[Titus]

3) If Wheme flips scum, vig someone from the mason pool (which better fucking not be me after getting a scum lynched)

Actually I'm just really loving how precisely zero critical thinking was given towards interpreting this.

Am I a mason claim? No

Have I been pushed by mason claism? Yes.

So when I say "vig someone from the mason pool" and "better fucking not be me", even without the game state, the context over what I meant should have been really fucking obvious.

Sorry. *hugs*

Can you tell me who else is scum?

[Titus]

@mhsmith0, He might be. Let's suppose that's true.

Lynching math sends the message scum cannot refuse to claim and expose themselves to the lie detector and Ginngie is making his own death sentence.

[Titus]

I'd rather go with the lynch that is mechancially likely to be scum, and that materially opens up the game state and provides additional info. Plus if we're going to get into "hey someone should vig smith" territory (which clearly we're in), then I'd rather call my lynch first and accept that if I'm wrong I'm dead, and if I'm right I get a day tomorrow with a scum flip to start looking into.

Well, I could give you a pass, lynch Ari slot, if you help us remove Math to ensure all players are protown.

[Titus]

its pretty silly to lynch people because you dont think theyre acting protown tbh.

No. It's why games are unbareable Gork. Both town and scum have no incentive to cooperate. Why would Math scum ever make the game more enjoyable? They can be shamelessly anti-town and know that the hassle makes it hard to lynch them. People are treating each other with respect now that rb is gone. With Math gone, scum cannot argue absurdities to avoid getting lynched.

Also, if town Math won't clear themselves when the opportunity arises, what's to stop them from wrecking a game like in mini 1900?

At some point, the town must policy lynch Gork.

Can you bottom line the Ari scum case? "He's doing nothing" isn't really something I'm super sympathetic towards, since I'm ALSO kinda not doing anything, and I kinda sympathetize with being lazier in a game that's had >400 pages, much of which has kind of been crap.

If there's something meaningful there, I'll evaluate that. If not, I'll just ISO when I have the energy for that kind of shit (I'm scheduled for PTO friday, so that's my best guess fwiw)

Ari has been promising content in his prod dodges. I gave him a VCA skim task to get started. Nothing. He keeps shpwing up making promises to get nothing.

[Titus]

the town must policy lynch

Gork

.

o:

Lol. Weeee. My comma ran away to start a band.



Because I am so much cooler online...

[Titus]

Strictly speaking, it functions as a rolecop, just not for ICs, millers, and masons, but has the benefit of also confirming action claims. *shrug* Still pretty shit since I can't even ensure a statement I check is capable of being lie detected.

It's pretty useful to me. mhsmith0 beetlejuicing in with a claim helped me find him townier.

The mere fact of being willing to claim no targets and opening himself up to being checked is protown.

[Titus]

Meh. Not really, when that's all he's claiming. I disagree that it's unlikely that people can be caught by claiming no targets at this point. A role claim+ the targeting is harder to pass though, it dies force anyone who has submitted a kill to honest claim having targeted that person on that night.

Agreed. We could just even dispense with roles and just have everyone claim targets. But at this point, lynching Math and Ari might just win. :/

[Titus]

Cause and effect may not be as directly linked as you think, but I can see how targets might be useful material for lie detection.

Davesaz, you've been a huge reason why town is winning. I know we have a lot of posts but a pat on the back one is necessary. We don't always see eye to eye but you have directly saved the masons and myself on multiple occasions. So...

[Titus]

Narna are you still here? I feel you have some misconceptions about what I am trying to do. I want to talk to you directly.

[Titus]

Also, buddying me would largely be ineffective. I am pretty much putting myself at the bottom of the night action pick order to lynch Math.

[Titus]

Also, buddying me would largely be ineffective. I am pretty much putting myself at the bottom of the night action pick order to lynch Math.

I'll believe that Math could be a blue traitor after we get a blue flip (Math's reluctance on Wheme, while Wheme/Gin seem happy enough to pile on Math, is reasonably in range with what at least could be a blue traitor dynamic). Wheme is probably going to be a blue flip, and is still I think the optimal lynch today.

I'm not 100% sure there's a blue team. Second, if there is a blue team, that's like 5-6 people who won't vote scum without a major fight and we aren't as ahead as we think we are due to red refusing to cross kill. Gamma isn't here and cannot vote scum. This problem is the same for Whemestar.

We just need to get enough town votes where it becomes obvious multiball or Insomniacs is forced to claim.

[Titus]

No. It looks pretty genuine. You said you view Insomniacs as anti-town. Let's get the game progressed, then talk about that.

[Titus]

I'm lazy (and more importantly busy). Is there an ari case?

He has no relevance and when his wagon became significant he bailed out

Jerkish but not NAI, or town indicative. He was scum in Divergent and RC pummelled him.

Let's just do Insomniacs.

[Titus]

Ari stayed in Divergent ftr.

[Titus]

I will buzz fire. It's been two days since the last vc.

[Titus]

Feel better soon Firem

[Titus]

I am just voting the largest wagon on a non clear after Math/Insomniacs claims if Cerb will lie detect them.

Cerb, shiro, and Gork can pick my night action except for g.s.ing wheme or Math.

[Titus]

i really dont get why you think two scumteams is the most likely position for us to be in. you think 7 of the remaining players here are scum?

Why not two teams of 5, meaning 6 remaining?

[Titus]

No wait I forgot one, we have 5 not 4 dead red.

[Titus]

mhsmith0, why are you pushing an argument that is mathmatically terrible to avoid voting Insomniacs? I gave you an out saying I wouldn't push to vig you if we moved the game along.

Second, in a balanced setup, anti-town should be 1/4 to 1/3 of setups.

In this case, that is between 8 or 11 scums (rounded 32 to 33). We remove the 4.5 dead anti-town (being charitable and counting traitor is half), leaving 3.5 to 6.5 anti-town remaining. We remove the red which we know exists due to shot flavor. That's 2.5 to 5.5 anti-town. Remove the SK.

1.5 to 4.5 anti-town remaining. There is not enough slots to fill a team in equal size to the first and the first had. The red team also has more powers.

[Titus]

mhsmith0, why are you pushing an argument that is mathmatically terrible to avoid voting Insomniacs? I gave you an out saying I wouldn't push to vig you if we moved the game along.

This kind of answers itself?

1) I'm not convinced that Insomniacs is scum
2) I think Wheme is pretty likely scum
3) I don't care about being vigged, since I'm just a VT (blah blah blah WIFOM, but if I was scum I'd explicitly not want to die, but at least "I don't really care if I die for being wrong if I'm wrong" is on the surface entirely consistent with my having a strong read and my not being scum)

Also 3) last game was exactly 22/5/5, and I'm perfectly content to presume that we're dealing wiht something BROADLY similar (21/5/5/1, 21/6/5, 22/6/4 with awesome powers on the 4, etc etc are all BROADLY similar flavor-wise), until and unless we see something solid to change my mind. A Wheme miller flip would actually do that to some extent, though I'll be dead after that and it won't be my problem.

But it's pretty obvious that I'm likely to die in the relatively near future, and if that is to happen, I want my #1 target to be dead before that happens.

You are spiting your nose to cut your face here. You help us get Insomniacs to claim, I am willing to lynch Ari and vig wheme. I got no problem with that.

If we suppose 22/5/5, how did red get a kill? 5 are dead.
If we suppose 22/6/4, what the fuck can "blue" have that's more powerful than a ninja, godfather, roleblocker, traitor and goon. Two of these were already gs immune.

It's not multiball. Wheme can be red claiming miller, which is why I am ok with him dying. Just work with me here.

[Titus]

The only way to make multiball work is 6/6/20.

[Titus]

@mhsmith0/random,

Insomniacs refuses to claim unless at l minus 1. Just help us out, then we can argue over the lynch. They'll make us go through 30 million pages. We need 5 more votes.

[Titus]

or they dont claim yet and we wagon them tomorrow

You magically think it will be easier to wagon them tomorrow with more town dead and lie detector?

[Titus]

You magically think it will be easier to wagon them tomorrow with more town dead and lie detector?

You think cerb will die? Or do you mean that cerb's lie detector would make it more difficult to lynch there?

Cerb might die before d8. That's the next chance to check and clear insomniacs if Cerb does not lie detect their claim tonight. We'll have a shit ton less town.

So having Insomniacs claim later essentially lets them bullshit whatever they want, make no method of clearing them, and continue spouting crap no one wants to hear and never resetting. Scum will support that if they are town.

If you think Insomniacs is town, help them get out of their own way.

[Titus]

If someone wants to actually ARTICULATE a meaningful case on ari I'll listen as well. And I have literally zero interesting in shitting out a vote "just to make Math claim".

Dude, no one wants a whemestar lynch? You have to meet us somewhere. You can always put your vote back on whemestar. I am practically the only conftown who wants you alive, and you're spitting in my face because you won't accept wheme vigged tonight while simultaneously arguing there are like 6 scum left.

This situation is a bit of a waste but Math has convinced Narna that expedience is terrible, getting cleared by a claim is terrible, and decided to let scum rebel.

[Titus]

Sorry, there's a difference between annoying and just outright scumclaiming.

Without saying its Math,

How can you justify

Endless shitposting and discrediting (which she does as scum too)
Refusal to claim when it would clear them and likely not die immediately
Refusal to reset in the face of being proven wrong repeatedly. (Masons aren't real, gunsmuths are fake, etc.)
Bitching about setup balance when town is winning. (Just control F God role)
Red ("shot") scum's pathological desire to shoot in the masons, which mirrors a scum that cannot buddy them.

[Titus]

tbf you were lying about quite a bit of the stuff in there. math is annoying here but you arent innocent of the cause

The only lie I told was who the gs was. That's a protown lie, which Insomniacs should be saying that I'm glad we're ahead and I get it. Not continuing to throw shade.

Second, even if I somehow annoyed Mathblade justifiably, that doesn't excuse refusing to clear herself to end the stupid bullshit nonsense. No slot would be excused from that. That's the only way Math can be investigated IMO.

It's also protown from any situation if you play the night actions. If Math is scum,they must shoot Cerb. More gs checks. Same thing if scum want to keep Math mislynchable. If Math is town, we'll know it tomorrow morning and we can quit getting in each other's way and use Math's ability to further the PoE.

[Titus]

i guess im not rly a big fan of claims that i dont think advance the game particularly and if math is town here and had a benefit to claiming i think they would have?
do you think math is scum titus?

To argue Math's investigation has no benefit means

A)Math is town
B) I am town
C) I am wrong in reading Math as scum.
D) Math is wrong in reading me as scum.
E) This will naturally resolve itself, despite Math's tunnel insisting to the point of absurdity.

That's not a position that makes sense over the course of this game when Math has been repeatedly corrected about the bebop pt existing, the bebop crew not being a large multiball faction, the gunsmith never checked them, and balance is fine. Just what magical evidence do you think will cause Math to be protown enough to earn a townread...

When they immediately refuse a plan to clear them and suggest I want a massclaim (no just them)....


I literally just cased Math, so I think they are scum. I am ok letting them go today if they get investigated because it will let others catch up or me reset.

[Titus]

In other words I don't agree lynch me.
You did the same shit in the Open Titus.
I don't agree with your reads I must be ridiculous policy me is your standard argument.
You being here isn't what GiF needs. You being here tunneling isn't what GiF needs.

What he needs is someone to explain why Not_Mafia is scum as they feel the lynch is lynchbait.

Now, you're putting words in his mouth. GiF can tell me what he needs.

I am not saying policy lynch for disagreement. I am saying you are likely scum if you don't follow your implications.
Cop, fv, scum rb isn't balanced and there is no other PR.

FyPOV.

FMPOV it is balanced.

And it's BS like this that makes me think you're scum.

Balance is not a point of view thing. This is absolutely not something that would be approved by the NRG. Objectively.

And I disagree with your alternative facts. Look at the newbie matrix.
This would get approved.

This is math trying to sell my role didn't exist because she had to in Shaizro mafia. I was a doctor that saved the cop.

[Titus]

is this the part where i mention again that its really weird that smith is assuming full multiball and not singleball with SK?
like hes literally running with it every chance he gets and it makes me feel uncomfortable.
):

Ooh it's almost like I'm explicitly putting that theory to the test, and it's almost like I'm ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH THAT THEORY

yeah but you don't really need to put the theory to the test, because with this "critical thinking" you're continuously harping about, it's pretty fucking clear that there is no blue scum.

Gee, I wonder why smith is repeatedly advocating for another scumteam and is tunneling onto this one team

VOTE: Insomniacs
I am unvoting as soon as this gets to L-1

Thank you.

[Titus]

i may be willing to vote math if wheme is vigged tonight.

I'm ok with this.

[Titus]

I think I have somewhere else to be.

Lots of hugs to Drixx.

[Titus]

ok hi friends. I'm in a giving mood. What about our slot does anyone want to know?

-Narna

Role, targets

[Titus]

Narna are you still here? I feel you have some misconceptions about what I am trying to do. I want to talk to you directly.

I'm done fueling this narrative of we're just going to go in circles with Titus all game. Clear up my 'misconceptions', but we're not claiming unless you have something more than not wanting to claim and Math's meta could be town or scum here. I tried ending it earlier with the last word bit, but you both pretty much ignored my wishes. I think we have reason to be more widely townread than other question mark slots, and we don't need to be the check

-Narna.

Look, no "last word" is not sufficient to end a debate. I picked this claim method to do it. Math has been far too much like Shaziro mafia for me to feel good about them without an investigation. I am very sympathetic to your plight as a hydra partner, but you have a duty to restrain them or publicly disagree with them doing utter garbage and be protown. You've been unwilling or incapable to do either. There is no good reason for a claim stall here.

[Titus]

Regarding the lie detector suggestions: I'm pretty sure thats where the "in the context of the game" thing comes into play. We can reasonably infer that there isn't another scum slot with A50s role, so by using that as the other option besides VT, you've made the statement AI.

There can always be more goons.

And again, given the context of the game (traitor flip/unconfirmed multiball), our "As of this point we can't kill" claim is valid. How about they "claim VT or [traditional scum role that hasn't flipped]"? As you said, there can always be more goons. I'm trying to get very likely innocents here.

-Narna

Then you can start with yourself...

[Titus]

I think it's likely that the terrorists are a scum faction, thus likely multiball.
Lack of kills probably means that there are multiple ways that kills can be avoided / prevented.

Great, can you help with Insomniacs?

[Titus]

No. Math cannot be checked tomorrow by Cerb. If Math is a protective role, the sheer intimidation value should have scum shit their pants if Math is confirmed. Math can be locked onto protecting Vax.

Meeting me halfway would involved claiming without the bullshit.

I have been meeting halfway on Math this entire game. At least 5 days of anti-town uncooperative bullshit from Math I have taken. Actually letting others dictate my night action, wagoning not Math once they claim if town doesn't want it is a compromise.

[Titus]

You can end this Narna. Why should I be compliant with a scumread who scumclaims by refusing the investigation that would clear or confirm them? Even this looks to be a rambling post just pissed that we are calling you out on your repeated softclaims Insomniacs. You're deflecting.

The best person to investigate with a lie detector is one who refuses to claim and end drama.

[Titus]

Circular logic. We have no reason to think your scum, but claim. You're the best person to investigate because you don't want to claim. Piss off.

-Narna

I'm already claimed.

You've been attacking our claim since daybreak as a God Role

. Every single action is detailed in thread. We're the gunsmith masonizer.

You can get angry but don't have your soft and refuse to back it up, and then argue crumbing.

Grandstand all you want, but Cerb needs to check you. Town needs to see what role is worth this commotion. Town needs to see these crumbs.

[Titus]

Move.TheFuck.On.

this is something neither of these siblings are capable of.

I would be. This insistence on claiming is the only way TO move on without killing them. I can't do it alone though.

[Titus]

I find the opposition interesting. I feel like there would be less opposition if we were actually trying to lynch insomniacs, because people are willing to just dismiss this as another stupid Titus v Math thing.

I would really like a VC. :/

The opposition to this is basically the only reason I cannot rule out multiball but then I see who is resisting. It's Gork who forced me to vote my townread to actually kill him and I know he's town.

I get the feeling there's a lot of implicit pride with the Math situation and excusing Insomniacs anti-town behavior because they are dressing it up as pride and battles again. People need to be held accountable for their softclaims and other behavior.

There's only so much I can compromise. Letting Math softclaim and load the thread with so much bullshit they cannot be wagoned feels like a deliberate strategy at this point.

[Titus]

Vote Count 6.5

Aristophanes (2/L-8): Scott and Ramona, Shiro
Master Vampire (2/L-8): Vaxkiller, Insomniacs
Insomniacs (5/L-5): Ginngie, Titus, Whemestar, Cerberus v666, Master Vampire
Mhsmith0 (3/L-7): Gorkington, Vedith, Randomidget,
WhemeStar (1/L-9): Mhsmith0

Not Voting (5): Aristophanes, Davesaz, PeregrineV, Drixx, Gamma Emerald,

With 18 players alive it takes 10 votes to lynch.


Day 6 ends in (expired on 2017-06-30 16:50:35)

Note:

-Looking for replacement for Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald

[Titus]

Titus get on the jj train I guarantee scum flip. If I am wrong you can shout at me in the pt later (asumming I live and enter the crew /mason/neighbor thing) and I will do whatever you ask deal?

I'm calling this in Shiro. I'm not even forcing a Math lynch here, although I feel it best. I just want us on the same page so we can get on a plan do deal with their hydra.

[Titus]

Where are the crumbs Math mentioned? Why make a huge deal about this? I got others concerns and I don't buy it for a second, but I am a woman of my word.

UNVOTE: Insomniacs

[Titus]

Ginngie, who do you think Math's partner(s) are?

[Titus]

VOTE: mhsmith0

I'm ok with this solely because he wanted Math to claim but derailed it too. Talking out of both sides of his mouth.

[Titus]

@randomidget,

Math is scummy as fuck but Gork and Shiro son't want Math today. Cerb can lie detect Math because we drew a claim out of them. If Gork and Shiro say ok, we can swing back.

I also am not a fan of Vedith's recent posting unless sarcastic.

[Titus]

no shit
did you miss me pushing smith and wheme? you lot shitting up the thread was the thing hindering the discussion of other stuff

Push harder or ignore her. She targeted me specifically and is now okay with continuing the game.

I want to know why. I am betting Titus Cerb mafia. Need to talk with Narna late tonight but pretty much Titus is silencing anyone who discredits her and I think RB was a scum kill and Gamma wouldn't have vigged RB.

--Math

Rb kill was claimed by Gamma. So....

I also unvoted as I promised to reset. If you're a VT, you should have little to worry about.

[Titus]

what section of vedith ISO are you considering recent?

The posts where he is encouraging Math.

[Titus]

do you find it objectively scummy or scummy because they are taking math's side?

Objectively anti-town because it's encouraging Math's behavior which the town consensus is they need to move on and accept I am town. The theories Math is putting up are just getting more and more absurd. We should be saying no, ignoring and moving on.

There's two main scenarios I see for this. 1) Math is scum and needs Cerb to be seen as scum because they lied. 2) Math is town and Vedith is trying to rile Math into a frenzy so we must policy lynch them before Cerb gets his results.

[Titus]

Lets face it, Titus, you just don't like people disagreeing with you.

Are you doubting I am town? Why are you deflecting my concerns? What are your motivations in dealing with Math? Why do you handwaive them with an insinuation that this is about ego?

I've actually been trying to sort Math and continue the game.


@random, So what? If Vedith TRs Math, the better reply is to let it go and say Cerb will lie detect it. That was the point. Keeping Math pissed and rambling nonsense only hurts that.

[Titus]

Lets face it, Titus, you just don't like people disagreeing with you.

Are you doubting I am town? Why are you deflecting my concerns? What are your motivations in dealing with Math? Why do you handwaive them with an insinuation that this is about ego?

I've actually been trying to sort Math and continue the game.


@random, So what? If Vedith TRs Math, the better reply is to let it go and say Cerb will lie detect it. That was the point. Keeping Math pissed and rambling nonsense only hurts that.

Yes, I am. Your actions are very questionable from town.

And if you are Cerb are scum together, then yeah, of course you'll say Math is telling the truth, you have no reason not to. It just looked like you wanted to know if Math had a power... You didn't give a shit on them lying or not. Or even if Cerb isn't scum doesn't mean I shouldn't doubt you. But sure, I should stay quiet and not speak up

Ok, I am gunsmithing you tonight. I wanted to do it yesterday, but I decided Drixx not being turbo lynched is important.

I wanted Math sorted. My TRs wanted them alive. GS check fails. Lie detect doesn't.

Who do you want lynched today?

[Titus]

Lets face it, Titus, you just don't like people disagreeing with you.

Are you doubting I am town? Why are you deflecting my concerns? What are your motivations in dealing with Math? Why do you handwaive them with an insinuation that this is about ego?

I've actually been trying to sort Math and continue the game.


@random, So what? If Vedith TRs Math, the better reply is to let it go and say Cerb will lie detect it. That was the point. Keeping Math pissed and rambling nonsense only hurts that.

so you should let people force all your towreads to claim?

No. Just the one that's in a pages long shit fest that can be cleared and limit the insanity being spewed in thread.

[Titus]

why do you think the claim will stop that?

Because Math can be lie detected by Cerb. If they pass, then Math can only be VT, Goon with other buddies murdering, or SK that can bypass lie detection. The last is least likely due to claim stall. If they fail, we lynch them.

[Titus]

what if they pass and continue spamming though

That's what Gork and Shiro are hopefully going to help with.

[Titus]

VOTE: Insomniacs

Ok, then we can kill either mhsmith0 or Insomniacs or Vedith.

I'm still not sure if Insomniacs is town, but if they are, the amount they are willing to stall the game just to disagree is rather *side eye*.

[Titus]

I see we've made great strides in moving on, eh Titus? It shouldn't be this hard to lynch a second miller or a damn afk slot that was run up once.

-Narna

Oh I'm moving on to the extent my townreads want it. If Shiro says we don't lynch you, I've voting mhsmith0 again.

[Titus]

Vote :Insomniac

Yes, because there was absolutely no reason for town to say we are VT or mafia goon.

None, nothing, no a single one.

It is for the lie detect.

Can't say VT only that is alignment indicative.

This. We're trying to make sure that an answer can show up theoretically true for a certain set of scum and certain town can register it as a lie.

[Titus]

.....

Huh?


The.....lie detect has......... Limitation?

Yes. It cannot detect anything that would be essentially a public cop.

Anything where the user says "I'm town" would be excluded.

[Titus]

@Math, Lock town if singleball is my Vax read. He explains the NF kill and why Dave has kept town alive. I'll revisit with proof of multiball. I want you dead for my sanity, but we're letting Cerb check you.

@Gork - I'm back following.

VOTE: mhsmith0

[Titus]

Y'all are awesome. Everyone gets credit who is on a scum wagon fmpov. Who cares who is first?

Second, we can just leave an end of day post for Gamma and Ari slots detailing what each slot is doing and the if you shoot this you get turbo lynched list.

[Titus]

I don't trust that we can actually rely on the gamma slot replacement to reading the last few posts of the day.

That's why it's right before hammer, but I understand that and waiting. We might be waiting awhile.

Can we do a gentleperson's agreement to put whomever we lynch at L-2 and then just stop posting?

[Titus]

@Cerb, I'm fullclaimed now. I can make whatever statement you need to be 100 percent sure on D8 if we're both alive and somehow multiball is still a thing.

@Math, We've had plenty of "actual" discussions. You're just rehashing everything that's already been decided. The game needs to move on.

[Titus]

Nah, I was likely the n1 check with Alisae telling Math I was town.

I'm also concerned with you pushing the Tywin was the clear narrative.

[Titus]

The fact she didn't give it to you suggests she didn't think you were town.

Read the underlined again. It does not help you.

[Titus]

particularly with the debates Math may be having with SQ later if all goes according to plan.

Am I allowed to ask what this is, or do I have to wait like a good little Alisae to find out?
-Ali

Last post where SQ mentions Math, and it's me commenting Math might go off the rails. Just saying.

[Titus]

Actually Titus, had you already claimed something day one? If so you're even LESS likely to be a cop peek since it'd have made you a potential target for death.

Scum were never killing the guy who clears 4 ppl n1. That's why I did it.

[Titus]

Like, why would a competent cop EVER check someone who's made a potentially self-resolving claim? That seems incredibly sub-optimal, and I don't know why you'd expect that kind of questionable play from Ali/fro9.

Stop Math from going off the rails isn't suboptimal.

Now, I think I'll be getting drunk tomorrow and determining which of Ginngie or MV or Vedith to check.

[Titus]

Yeah, ok. *shrug* Math or I could die making to worthless. They could die too. But logically, SQ could only prep if they died. So you'd look at their Math mentions. Ending spam is also not ego so *shrug*.

[Titus]

Because despite the very obvious points against him, momentum on him is impossible to create, which strongly suggests he has muktplemlovijg teammates helping him out

Aristophanes (1/L-9): Scott and Ramona
Master Vampire (1/L-9): Vaxkiller
Insomniacs (2/L-8): Ginngie, Whemestar
Mhsmith0 (6/L-4): Gorkington, Vedith, Master Vampire, Cerberus v666, Randomidget, Titus
WhemeStar (2/L-8): Mhsmith0, Insomniacs

Not Voting (6): Aristophanes, Davesaz, PeregrineV, Drixx, Gamma Emerald, Shiro


Just who are these teammates? Not Vedith bc you were talking to him. Cerb you've been yelling as if he is town. Gork and I are town. So it would have to be master Vampire and Vedith.

If that's the case, you could actually join the Master Vampire wagon.

[Titus]

Pedit, nevermind Vedith is still obvscumming this. Ok.

[Titus]

Pedit, nevermind Vedith is still obvscumming this. Ok.

Could you clarify why? Vedith isn't one I've had much success reading previously, so if there's something in partuclar that says "scum" and not just "bad" to you I'd appreciate it.

Sheeping randomly, no coherence, NC tried to save A50, encouraged Math drama, NC had vote parked on SlySly prior to NC vig but never voted SlySly after that vig

[Titus]

Could you clarify why? Vedith isn't one I've had much success reading previously, so if there's something in partuclar that says "scum" and not just "bad" to you I'd appreciate it.

Because I don't agree with Titus and now she's mad... Simple stuff

Oh and I forgot, trying to argue shit is about ego when it isn't.

[Titus]

He is, but I'd still prefer Vedith and Math. mhsmith0 is being very prideful. My townreads want mhsmith0 though so I follow.

[Titus]

He is, but I'd still prefer Vedith and Math. mhsmith0 is being very prideful. My townreads want mhsmith0 though so I follow.

1) being "very prideful" is a towntell unless there's specific scum motivation (which there isn't)
2) which townreads in particular of yours want me dead? Looking at my wagon... MV isn't one; vedith (who was on me before flipping to wheme) isn't one; Gork obv is a TR of you; are you TRing heavily among cerb, random, and ginngie?

1) Yeah prideful is noise and NAI. You and Math can both do that as scum.
2)cerb and ginggie and gork.


Look mhsmith0, Whemestar said he'd show without a weapon meaning I can check him. You beat this horse to death. Vote one of the other blue scum in your theory you might get traction but right now I see you as in a tunnel and impossible to work with.

[Titus]

Look mhsmith0, Whemestar said he'd show without a weapon meaning I can check him

You do realize that a bunch of people have claimed no weapon and/or VT by now right? Moreover, if Wheme is bluescum then it's realistic that he's bluescum without a gun since we've already seen redscum flip with a katana. This means that objectively speaking Wheme is a BAD gunsmith check since the possibility of a false clear is obviously possible.

You're also townreading cerb and ginngie, neither of which I think are good TRs, both of which are I think high on the list of plausible Wheme teammates.

So yeah, I don't really see where we can work together here given our current stated positions. If you want to be productive, join me on Wheme, and if it flips town I get vigged, and if it flips scum just GS me or something to further prove that I'm town (or just accept that my strongarming a bluescum lynch is much more likely to come from actual town). It's a super high info flip about the setup/game state, and I'm actually willing to be held accountable for the flip. I legitimately don't see how you can reasonably ask for more than that.

You don't get it do you?

You're refusing to do any analysis. You're repeating this is multiball so wheme is scum. What if it's singleball, like most think? If you think blue scum are a thing, you refused to help on the traitor claimer. You're not willing to vote anyone but wheme while thinking a good chunk of the game is scum.

I don't care about an info flip. I care about a scumflip. If you insist on a wheme v you, you're losing.

[Titus]

Wheme also said they are Goon/VT though, right?
So sure, the gunsmith might not pickup on it, but the lie detect will (if real, of course).

No. Wheme claimed miller. Stop trying to deter the lie detect ftom Math obvscum.

[Titus]

@mhsmith0, Cerb did. I'm not repeating the same argument with you. You aren't doing your role by repeating the same things over and over and ignoring us. That's not analysis.

Who is scum with Wheme? Vote them. I am not convincing you Wheme is town but when push comes to shove I need to know you'll vote not!Wheme scum rather than just noise tunnel.

[Titus]

@mhsmith0,

Cerb, Ginngie, and Wheme is still too small for a scumteam. Would you be willing to vote Vedith?

You have me, Ari, Gork, Shiro as town. I agree there.

[Titus]

Plot hole: Ari has to be replaced first.
I have little doubt mhsmith0 is genuinely frustrated, but is he red scum frustrated or town frustrated?

I don't want to lynch Ari if we are waiting for subs. Hi. Let's lynch you and then wait for a Gamma sub....

[Titus]

why does ari have to be replaced?
why does ari have to be replaced but gamma not?

Mod rules. Mods are required to replace the person who asked first.

[Titus]

you dont understand my question.
why are we not lynching aristophanes on the premise of him needing to be replaced first?
is he town?
why if so?

No we aren't. I would feel bad if we waited all this time for an Ari replacement just to lock lynch it. I'd rather lynch the players who are making this game the way it is. If we could jusst not replace Ari and get an active gamma replacement, I'd be fine with thaat... but site rules prohibit that.

[Titus]

My give a fucks about this game is approaching 0.

--Math

This sadly is the towniest post you've made in awhile.

[Titus]

I'll lynch Math (for sanity), random, mhsmith0, and Vedith.

mhsmith0 can be off my lynch list if he does something other than tunnel wheme. He's a big reason I refuse to lynch Wheme.

Ari I am ok with lynching if we don't wait for subs and leave Gamma slot sub instructions.

[Titus]

why the fuck is titus' iso 8 pages long

Because fuckers keep making me repeat things, rb went toxic, containing Math and helping my TRs with good lynches. I still average about 1/10 posts which is not bad at all. People need to compromise and scum need to stop hiding behind this meme of agree with Titus or on my SR list.

[Titus]

@ Titus

Can we try random? I could Vedith as well to a lesser extent.
VOTE: Random

VOTE: random

@Cerb, I'm ok with anyone in that pool but Math bc y'all TR them and you can lie detect.

[Titus]

blue team is titus smith vax and wheme + ?? calling it

Why did I suddenly become scum after I voted you?

[Titus]

ive been considering you as scum for quite a while.
reistance to wheme/smith dichotomy implies they are scum and you fit the bill of being the buddy pushing against it
nice misrep tho

No. You've been pushing me as arrogant town for days.

Second, there is no mhsmith0 dichtomoy if mhsmith0 is proud. Sounds like you're trying to force lynches there that you need and me since I am not getting killed.

[Titus]

Oh and third, the scenario you just suggested what mhsmith0 and wheme as partners, which means not a dichtomy at all.

[Titus]

Oh and third, the scenario you just suggested what mhsmith0 and wheme as partners, which means not a dichtomy at all.

what?

Dichotomy means either or. You said they were partners. Thus, mhsmith0 wheme dichotomy is not true even then. You're using it as a buzzword.

[Titus]

the dichotomy was on whether or not wheme or smith was going to be lynched which was obvious from the context.

No. It wasn't. That's a strained usage of dichotomy. I happen to think they are both town, but have no qualms removing people who have pet lynches and refuse to cooperate.

[Titus]

sorry titus that really isnt a strained usage of the word dichotomy at all.
saying "there is a dichotomy between choosing to lynch player a or player b" is pretty standard fare.

That would be correct if random said only one was scum. That's how he'd be using it.

Gork, can we just lynch the obstructionists that stop us from getting wagons? If you me Shiro Cerb and Vax agree anywhere, then it should be lock scum. I'd include davesaz but his wifom is spot on right now.

[Titus]

smith: assocs to scum team. he has been pushing really weird angles today. little to make him seem town.
wheme: sus miller claim, sus flavour claim, not done a huge amount. thats it rly, its mainly mechanical which imo is why he is a better vig shot than an k

Scum pushed me as scum for the smith0 lot when I was misunderstood town in other games.

[Titus]

I'd include davesaz but his wifom is spot on right now.

Not sure how to interpret this.

You've been blocking scum kills left and right. Not really sure we want scum to get access to your head.

[Titus]

Dave, are you deliberately ignoring my previous question?

No, just haven't had time to make the answer a quality one.

I'd include davesaz but his wifom is spot on right now.

Not sure how to interpret this.

You've been blocking scum kills left and right. Not really sure we want scum to get access to your head.

What I meant was, you listed a bunch of people you wanted to agree with, and then said you didn't want to include me. Don't want to include me in the town group who can agree on a lynch?

Doing so lets scum in your head.

[Titus]

But if you disagree, I'd love your input too.

[Titus]

Also @Titus: why in YOUR opinion is wheme town? Forget "stuff cerb said", forget "I don't like your tunnel", you're putting a lot of resistance against wheme without substantiating why he's town.

There's no valid case against him.

[Titus]

For what its worth, it's probably not a good idea to talk about potential bus driving actions, it will only lead to failure. I've been doing ok so far.

If everyone survives tomorrow, then I will disagree with this.

[Titus]

@mhsmith0,

You can easily cherrypick and say ignore your valid reasoning for not wanting wheme dead. We aren't doing a tunnel yell scream fest. Sorry. Town is working together. That means not wheme. Move on.

[Titus]

Wheme is slowly accumulating votes, including form the IC. Wheme very well MAY be happening. Not moving on, and especially not doing it for something where you can't even substantiate why he's town beyond "fuck your case"

No, he's been stagnant but for Shiro and I'll be damned if I am essentially yelled at to lynch my townread full of spam flavor garbage again when I backed off my top lynches.

Miller claim and flavor is not a case. Wheme is one of the few players who are not lock town but willing to compromise here. He's healthy and scumhunting.

So yeah, going through and lynching my townreads will likely just end up with us lynching you tomorrow when he flips town for being an uncooperative bastard while the real scum sit and insult me while calling me egotisical.

Scum need to die. Wheme is not it. Move the fuck on or die.

[Titus]

Here's the thing Titus: if you care about preventing Wheme's lynch because you truly think he's town, you should care enough to engage with the points against him substantively and present an actual town case (and fwiw, the "don't lynch wheme" cases so far have been objectively worse, including at least two "smith's bussing" accusations from people who don't want to join the wagon). Because just saying "it's not happening" is not going to dissuade me; threatening to lynch me is not going to dissuade me; if you care enough to do a critical evaluation of wheme that shows why he's town, then do so instead of complaining about my push.

There are no fucking points to engage. You yelled players down.

[Titus]

Miller claim and flavor is not a case. Wheme is one of the few players who are not lock town but willing to compromise here.

He's healthy and scumhunting

.

How? Show me actual evidence of scumhunting, if this is your argument. Not shitting out lazy or easy reads, ACTUAL SCUMHUNTING. You've made a substantive statement, back it up.

You made a statement he isn't. His entire ISO is scumhunting.

Second, in multiball it's a fucking given both teams scumhunt. That's a sideshow point. We both know he is. The question is whether or not he's genuine in his efforts.

I can but I'd rather get to why you feel like you have to be in control and wreck the game rather than things flow naturally.

You know random is obvscum priming to come after you right? Yet you refuse to engage there? You've refused to even vote Math to get their claim.

You refuse to actually consider anyone else. Why?

[Titus]

Spoiler: Wheme's ISO on page 2

That's what I asked

If PV's claim is remotely acceptable, I'll be joining you here.

Then I'll just lynch you and Gork...

What

VOTE: PV

insom's probably right that ari is more likely to be scum and yes im inviting vedith to come in and say "lol told you so", but i dont really care hes still a garbage person and im glad this is probably my second last game ever so i dont have to play with toxic waste like him anymore.

You call me toxic while I kept it game related... You just constantly insulted me with everything not game related.
You need to learn what toxic really means, and you should be grateful that I'm not sinking to your level of toxic, because I truly can.

You need to learn to accept when you're wrong and I proved this by pointing out your flaw in your top Scum read.

As I said though, you do you.

I'm going to lurk mode, because you know, that's how you avoid being lynched now days rather than questioning people

Been doing it all game

Aristophanes is town

That Ari replacement was towny af

I could do Smith but not Ari

Don't think he's been on site for a while

Titus I'm confused about your Bus swap

Ok but why them

Would Ari replace out like that if he was scum

VOTE: Insomniacs

Part of me really wants this gone but part of me thinks its town and RB also thought they were town too

Why would I claim my scum flavor though

Also, buddying me would largely be ineffective. I am pretty much putting myself at the bottom of the night action pick order to lynch Math.

I'll believe that Math could be a blue traitor after we get a blue flip (Math's reluctance on Wheme, while Wheme/Gin seem happy enough to pile on Math, is reasonably in range with what at least could be a blue traitor dynamic). Wheme is probably going to be a blue flip, and is still I think the optimal lynch today.

Your so confident I'm scum it's funny lol

At the same time I feel like you know I will flip town but idk

? I'm just not sure if your push on me is town coming from the POV that all scum flavor is the same as this game as it was last game. Or if your scum trying to get towncred by pushing me

You can argue that it was a good wagon and a good reason for voting me (which I think it is a good reason)

Also if I was scum I would of defended Jjh a lot more

Is randommidget confirmed town cause I think he's scum

Nah I'm making it to end game

Like I still don't understand why I would vote Jjh like I did if I was scum

Like I still don't understand why I would vote Jjh like I did if I was scum

Find me three legitimately interesting or solvey things you've done this game. You have >200 posts and they basically all look like boring slop.

They are boring slop. I've never really gotten into this game

Now tell me why your bringing up something else than what I am talking about

I am not fine with that

Okay

Also I think the major reason I've been doing nothing is multiball messes with my head

Also I think the major reason I've been doing nothing is multiball messes with my head

good thing its not multiball then

But people are saying it is

Hey math I'm not certain scum

Literally the case on me is that my flavor is the same as scums was last game

Uhm I forgot why I town read Tywin

I voted him cause I thought there was a guilty on him?

Whene, you didn't do what I said.

Go read the quotes I pulled from your iso. When your read on someone changes, please explain why.

Hint: you pushed Tywin as scum long before there was a guilty. Some nice town points you just pissed away with that answer.

I did? I forgot lol

Literally the case on me is that my flavor is the same as scums was last game

Case on you is you are miller and you've been doing jack crap all game.

Literally the flavor is irrelevant to the case.

--Math

The flavor is how the case started

So cerb, you want me to go through that Wall of quotes of yours. And explain to you why my reads changed from person to person?

Why do you guys want to lynch Smith

I want to

This is "healthy and scumhunting"??? HOW??? The closest thing to anything substantive is when he stated a TR on Ari due to "town replace-out", and the rest of that set is unending crap. And, for someone who wants to "work together", you seem completely uninuterested in that one bit of content he DID have (since you seem to want Ari dead, but not to talk to him about Ari). Why is THAT?

I talk to players as they get on. I actually agree with him on Ari and Vedith. He moved the game along by voting Insomniacs so we can get that slot resolved.

[Titus]

His insomniacs vote post was utterly appalling
He's done basically nothing other than self-defense, random shade-casting, and a TR of Ari that he didn't actually seem to care about beyond simply SAYING that there was a TR there with some reasoning behind it but not much care behind it (which looks a lot like scum half-assedly "defending" a mislynch while not actually doing anything to actually prevent it)

And you're saying that this is objectively villagery, which is just MIND-BENDING

Yes, I know you're in frustrated tunnel mode. #hugs

That's why I want you to talk about other scumreads.

If you can't, then Wheme is more useful than getting in yelling matches with you.

[Titus]

mhsmith0, you're acting exactly like the frustrated players in Wake's game. Just kill. Talk about other slots please for the love of god.

[Titus]

@mhsmith0, You need to convince town to lynch Wheme and using tautologies, screaming, and having a singular domineering focus isn't it. I don't feel like I can sell you on a better lynch, when you won't even tell me who is town and who is scum, when according to you nearly half the game is evil.

The lack of compromise is wrecking town. If I had my way, Math would be dead for the sheer number of ridiculous crap they've said. Yet, I value town working together more than lynching my favorite read.

Tell me who you think is scum and if I agree, I'll show you a better case. If not, then we can try to get there.

Trying to dictate you're in control is honest. Yet, it's very anti-town.

[Titus]

mhsmith0, you're acting exactly like the frustrated players in Wake's game. Just kill. Talk about other slots please for the love of god.

Well I think Ginngie is pretty decently likely to be scum, but that's a TR of yours so you don't seem much interested there. I explicitly disagree on Ari and Math (at the least both seem well within their town range)

Vedith, PV are useless lurksack slots to the best of my recollection, and I don't know what to make of their fight, and remain curious where that goes.

random's engagement with the wheme stuff seems questionable, but I can sort of see how town!him might actually see a theory scum team like he's talked about (what strikes me as scummy there is that, if that's what he thinks scum is, that he has no real interest in voting what his stated worldview would say is an incredibly important sort)

S&R I SR'd a while ago but can barely remember anything they've said for a while.

And basically I don't really feel like there's a strong case against anyone rn. Which is itself annoying, and I don't really know what to do about it beyond continue pushing what I DO feel like is a strong case.

PV if I live I am gunsmithing because he cannot be checked any other way.

Talk to me about Gingie.

Vedith isn't a lurk sack and Not Chara tried to save A50 when rb went off the rails.

Scott and Ramona are lurking.

[Titus]

I'll look at all those. Can I do it tomorrow though? It's past 8:30 and I'm just about to leave work and I'm pretty damn exhausted. I personally think that we're owed a deadline extension given that we have TWO slots that need replacement, but I have no idea what FB intends to do about any of this, which is more of a minor annoyance than anythingelse but still.

I would love that. I want your best.

[Titus]

@Wheme, I am going to need more than you following me here even if you're tired.

@Math, Wheme isn't scum. Your reads have been off all game.

[Titus]

I'm following you?

Ok, so you're making me a double voter. Why?

What are your reads?

[Titus]

Hi Ari sub.

You've subbed into a game with a gunsmith masonizer (me), who has recruited all eligible players in that masonry. That is SQ, MariaR, Gork and Shiro. My masonry is one way. Drixx and Cerb are living clears.

Cerb is a lie detector who checked me n2 regarding my hood claim, PV n4 and confirmed he commuted n2. He cannot lie detect AI statements.

Vax is a bus driver who redirected kills.

Davesaz is loud doctor saving us from scum.

Gamma is the vig.

Shiro is confirmed innocent child.

[Titus]

DrCirno replaces Gamma Emerald effective immediately. Please welcome him/her.

O.o I'm glad but we may talk after this.

[Titus]

I'm following you?

Ok, so you're making me a double voter. Why?

What are your reads?

What how

If you vote where I vote, I have two votes.

Secondly, I want a reads set from you.

---------

@DrC

We also have mhsmith0, Insomniacs, S and R as VT claims.

[Titus]

Davesaz isn't doctor?

Yes he is. Pretty obvious from visit patterns.

[Titus]

Except for the claim status I guess

On d1, I started looking for my masons immediately to help my gs checks and avoid being killed.

You shot scum d1
We lynched scum d1
I got clear on Cerb n1
Red scum shot SQ n1
Chairman doggo got hit by blue or sk
I recruited SQ past their ascetic. They died on arrival.

Scum shot at MariaR presumably and was healed by Davesaz presumably.
Other scum shot as you and was stopped by mystical birdie feathers. (I know this but I am not prepared to say why.)
I recruited MariaR and guiltied Tywin.

Scum tried and failed twice on n3.
Gamma vigged Socrates the traitor.
I guilted A50.

Vax bussed the scumkill on Davesaz into Not Fury who was odd pushed at the end of day 4.

On night 4, you vigged rb because he was going off the wheels toxic angry with multiple fakeclaims and hard defended scum.
I inno Shiro. Recruit fail Ari slot.


On night 5, my gambit of pretend MariaR was the gunsmith ended as scum shot MariaR.
I inno Drixx and recruit Shiro.


Math has had a hard tunnel on me since day 2.
Wheme is a miller claimer and mhsmith0 is locked onto that.

[Titus]

I think I saw something about someone else claiming miller

Jj, and he was lynched over my objection.

Claims look designed to punish us for setup spec. The amnesiac cop (dead) and I are both town.

[Titus]

Is math still tunneling you

Oh I forgot that. Yes, but we got a claim from them so Cerb can lie detect them. I would just lynch but my townblock trs them.

[Titus]

DrC, if you read any days, look at d3 and d4, please excuse any MariaR is the gs statements from me though. I was lying so she'd be blocked and pressuring those who questioned the guilty as an outed gs is where scum would block.

[Titus]

What specifically am I looking for from those days

They are days with guilties that I sat on for a bit. We have 1 red scum left unquestionably. Who is it?

[Titus]

@Wheme, I am going to need more than you following me here even if you're tired.

@Math, Wheme isn't scum. Your reads have been off all game.

...I have been right a lot too.

You're quick to discount that.

Mod got back to me. Can't answer the question.

This game annoys me to no end.

I claim almighty deity mass role cop. (This is sarcastic)

--Math

I get you are annoyed but you need to move on.

Who is scum if Cerb, Drixx, myself, Shiro, Gork, Gamma, Dave, and Vax are town?

[Titus]

@Whemestar, wtf yo?

@random When you stop insinuating that my reads are petty and vindictive, I'd be more inclined to listen to you.

[Titus]

y'know i just rechecked the url
cause i thought jester wasnt a thing on this site

Jester is only in bastard games

[Titus]

VOTE: Ari

Let's just move on.

[Titus]

@Narna,

I waffle in my own head. I probably will be contradictory until I sort that. My current assumption is sb, but I'd be an idiot if anyone but Cerb checked you.

I don't like lynching smith or wheme and you wanting them both dead is just reeking of opportunism. The insistence on checking the bodyguard by Math was terrible too.

@random, We've been over that.

@Vaxkiller, we're getting close to PoE point. Right now, if we locked you and Dave in, we'd near guarantee me living to D8.

[Titus]

Plus he didnt get masonized from what I've read

VOTE: Ari

Yeah, I only had a list of flavornames I could masonize. PV wasn't on it. It was Ari who I guessed and failed. :/

[Titus]

Yeah, I only had a list of flavornames I could masonize. PV wasn't on it. It was Ari who I guessed and failed. :/

How does a masonizer work? Only on town, or only on non PR town?

Usually, only town. Mine is only town with certain flavors.

[Titus]

Anyway, PV5 is very likely to be the bioterror SK since the bioterror attack only happened in odd nights and he claimed that he commuted all even nights which I doubt he was lying

I disagree with this. The only heal I have unaccounted for, supposing davesaz is the loud doctor, is n3.

[Titus]

Damnit Narna, what is it with people blowing up shit I'm doing??? *sigh*

I'd have much rather had him confirm that was a legitimate shot attempt than had you show up and give him cover for what could have easily just been an sk fucking up his fake claim.

We have what? A day to find a lynch? It felt like a waste of time for town to get confused on this and wait for a flip. Isn't the sk supposedly bioterror? But yeah, whoops. It still looks like a real attempt to me. I just figured they didn't know their shot was used. My bad, we cool?

-Narna

There was no chance he was gonna get lynched, I just wanted that shit all official like, without his excuse being spoon fed to him.


Two sks+ a large team is also quite viable, so that slot is far from cleared.

Just how many kills and heals do you think exist for 2 sks?

[Titus]

n3

That's still odd night no?

Yes. It is. I don't think a nerfed sk is here though.

[Titus]

I will also mention that (Town Gunsmith + Mafia Doctor + Town Vig) was once a popular normal setup meta.

Davesaz has unquestionably blocked scumkills and there are already two confirmed clear red scum. If you don't buy multiball, davesaz is prolly town.

[Titus]

Also with vig and shit load of players, that level of survival is required for SK.

I'd be more inclined to believe bulletproof or sk with some other role that has cover. So if PV was SK, he'd be untargetable.

[Titus]

Dr we should coordinate on who we check/vig to prevent you shooting my check.

[Titus]

@DrCimino, The way we have done it is you pick 3 vig in there and I go check whomever.

[Titus]

I feel like pairs is better than trios at this stage, because we want some number of vts for vaxkiller to utilize for bus driving without interfering with other claimed actions.

We can revusit with more corpses. Still plenty. I still feel ok.

[Titus]

I'll check Vedith, random or Gingie.

[Titus]

Can I just get drunk?

[Titus]

Oh, if you want to know why I refuse to go after wheme before you, it's because if the scenario I'm suspicious of is true, it will be harder to get you lynched after he flips than it is now, and also because I find miller's and other policy kills to be far better vig shots than lynches, because being on the wagon is pretty uninformative no matter how they flip. It's the reason why I didn't want to actually lynch jj, but wanted him shot. His wagons useless and compromised.

Then why did you practically force me to lynch jj rather than vote rb?

[Titus]

i guess lynching jj instead of letting the thread derail into the same neverending pile of garbage was probably the wrong call if it meant titus was going to keep rebringing it up as a point to make people feel bad.

I'm not bring that up to make you feel bad. Cerb said jj was low info garbage lynch. Yet he pushed it through over his TRs objections. That's my concern. My goal isn't to make players feel bad but to establish a mutual respect zone.

[Titus]

im pretty close to voting wheme just so the thread is closed in spite of townreading him. thanks all.

Ari has the larger wagon now... :/

[Titus]

Titus I remember you saying your town reads kept you from voting wheme

Now is the time to vote whem

P-edit: lmfao

My crew is on Ari.

My townreads kept me from Math.

[Titus]

can we lynch ari? seriously? like why is there any resistance to a wagon there? is anyone townreading that slot? anyone? im waiting. if i have time tonight im going to case him and we're going to lynch him, but if i cant people should at least be explaining at my face why the slot is somehow town and we arent lynching him.

and yes wheme, him replacing out isnt a good reason to townread him. especially if you cant convey why his replace-out was town in any kind of digestible way.

Oh it is. I've told you it is but there's like only one or two scum left anyway. I am just joining you to end this day and maybe tomorrow you'll listen.

[Titus]

we got math to claim for you titus. we derailed this day into shit because you refused to just let their slot just be a lategame sort to deal with. i dont know why youre trying to guilt-trip me as though im preventing you from doing what you want when we literally compromised and forced their slot to claim FOR YOU SPECIFICALLY so that we could move on with the day. are you honestly actually telling me that ari is flipping town? because if so i will literally just shut up and vote who you want me to just to get you to stop throwing this dumb passive-aggressive shit at me. do you want to vote insom? we could lynch insom and then you are not allowed to make this "TITUS GETS WHAT TITUS WANTS OR TITUS COMPLAINS" when their slot flips town. is that what you want here?

No. I want a reasonable discussion Gork. I don't want to bully a lynch you disagree with. Math is transparently anti-town, but I am not forcing you. That's not the role of a town leader.

This game wasn't derailed into shit by forcing Math to claim. Stopping their spam so they can be sorted is priority one for me because I want us on the same page. That won't happen today so I am compromising again.

[Titus]

@Titus: I answered your question(an answer which should have been obvious), but to make this painfully simple for you to comprehend: rb+ a miller needed to die for the sake of PoE and game sanity, and a jj lynch was the most likely way to have that happen. A wheme lynch would have worked too in the same way, but jj was always a better suspect for scum than wheme imo. So, even though I specifically called for the vig to shoot the miller's over the next couple nights, I capitulated on the lynch so the right slots would die.

I'll save this gor post game, as fighting with you about this does no good. Neither miller needed to die.

[Titus]

@DrC, I doubt it but did you look over Day 3 and Day 4?

[Titus]

I don't know but every time I see Titus v. MathBlade, I think of

That's why Cerb needs to check them tonight.

[Titus]

who is scum if ari isnt, titus?
why is ari not scum?
if you think math is scum, why isnt them completely ignoring ari something that could strike you as buddy/buddy interactions?

Random, Vedith, mhsmith0

His replace out. We discussed that already. Your observations are correct. He wants to help his team. The town team. I'm not 100% on it but I am 75-80%

Math ignores whatever doesn't fit their narrative. That's not an issue to me. Math might be town after their play when they stopped going full on all the PRs are scum. Math is giving "I am not in control and that's a problem" vibes moreso than scum vibes.

[Titus]

what about his replace-out makes it seem like hes town who wants to help his team vs scum? you realize that scum will typically feel more guilty about letting their team down than town right?

why are random and vedith scum? do you have any kind of reliable track record with reading them or reading players like them?

No. Town do. Scum have zero guilt about lurking and prod dodging in bad chaos towns.

They are scum due to their opportunistic, drama posting today.

I am not doing record analysis. The logic is good or it isn't.

[Titus]

When have I been opportunist?

There's the beetlejuice.

[Titus]

im not going to sheep you on a read if you have no track record with a player. i dont believe in static generic analysis like "they are overdramatic". by the same merit it makes no sense for scumVedith to devote so much energy towards pissing off a widely townread player when there are so many swingy PRs left in play that could just decide that him being abrasive is worth targeting him. (which is essentially whats happening right now and he doesnt seem overly bothered by it in the same way he was by my play). so. unless you can tell me you think you have some kind of reliable tell on him im not sheeping you. instead of just telling me im sheeping you if im wrong today, you should actually try to put together something convincing instead of just pouting when you dont get your way. its not a matter of i go, then you go, then i go, then you go, its a matter of who is being convincing right now and youre not presenting anything convincing thats worth sheeping.

Great, then tel me what you're looking for and all go find it or I'll do vca if we undoubtedly prove singleball.

Jockeying about records is only going to get whatever I say dismissed as ego.

Also 90+ percent of scumtells are fictions. So I'll almost certainly not bring you one.

[Titus]

if we undoubtedly prove singleball

Only one flavored kill suggests singleball + SK with flavored kill. Giving only one scumteam flavored kill is awkward, weird, and might bring the team with flavored kill disadvantage.

The ninja would kill with a katana and be immune to my gunsmith check.

[Titus]

thats not a masonizer then.

Does it matter?
Serious question

yes because it is titus lying.

I was lie detected on this by Cerb n2.

This is scum opportunism.

[Titus]

How balanced is 23:8:1

Pretty fair if the SK is immune to all shots and investigations.

[Titus]

i think it is a definite possibility.

@Math, do you think Cerb is scum?

@Drixx hi.

[Titus]

Before I continue I probably should ask the mod who my previous targets were. Especially N2.

PV.

[Titus]

Except ya know the kill flavor and how this game is going.

Just letting you know that multiple kill sources with only one flavorkill suggests SK.
And how this game is going?

N1: One flavorkill, one scumkill
N2: No kill
N3: One vigkill
N4: One scumkill, one vigkill
N5: One scumkill, one vigkill, One flavorkill

Given the claimed roles, please explain how these can be the kills from multiball.
Of course, I can explain this with my theory of singleball with PV5 being SK.

N1: Scum killed, doc missed, and SK killed.
N2: Vigshot went AWOL by shooting commute, scumkill prevented by doc
N3: scumkill prevented by doc. SK prob got roleblocked or sth
N4: SK couldn't kill cos lolcommuting
N5: All kills present

It's n3 that has me concerned. I can plot out every missing kill with SK or second scum faction but n3.

[Titus]

Except ya know the kill flavor and how this game is going.

Just letting you know that multiple kill sources with only one flavorkill suggests SK.
And how this game is going?

N1: One flavorkill, one scumkill
N2: No kill
N3: One vigkill
N4: One scumkill, one vigkill
N5: One scumkill, one vigkill, One flavorkill

Given the claimed roles, please explain how these can be the kills from multiball.
Of course, I can explain this with my theory of singleball with PV5 being SK.

N1: Scum killed, doc missed, and SK killed.
N2: Vigshot went AWOL by shooting commute, scumkill prevented by doc
N3: scumkill prevented by doc. SK prob got roleblocked or sth
N4: SK couldn't kill cos lolcommuting
N5: All kills present

It's n3 that has me concerned. I can plot out every missing kill with SK or second scum faction but n3.

We've had no signs of passive protections except PV's claimed commute. An odd night commuter is possible, as are BP, within both town or scum factions, since we've also seen no sign of kill immunity from flipped scum. Such things are the most likely explanation for the missing details.

So a scum killed immune scum on n3. I'd expect a push on that scum preguilty on d4 right?

[Titus]

What about my post made you think kill immunity could only exist within scum? Scum wouldn't know why their kill failed, so it's fairly reasonable for then to not push someone who they failed a kill on.

You'd think with the noose tightening, town would claim it. Either Vax bussed into kill immune scum who tried to kill dave or a scum nk is directly involved.

[Titus]

I need to VCA.

[Titus]

What about my post made you think kill immunity could only exist within scum? Scum wouldn't know why their kill failed, so it's fairly reasonable for then to not push someone who they failed a kill on.

You'd think with the noose tightening, town would claim it. Either Vax bussed into kill immune scum who tried to kill dave or a scum nk is directly involved.

I also think our watcher/tracker should claim, but you said they shouldn't.

I imagine whatever thought process led to you opposing that claim at the start of this day phase is the same reason why whoever got shot, if town, wouldn't have claimed responsibility.

Hell, why wouldn't scum have claimed responsibility, to get the credit of someone having shot at them??

The watcher/tracker may have results that can help. The lack of useful watcher/tracker results is probably the biggest reason for multiball TBH. It's day 6. You didn't see anything out of the ordinary? Unless it's something like Ari slot, that's just fucking weird. Let me do my VCA and see if I still feel the same way. Because there's a lot to do and a lot to check from d1 and d2.

[Titus]

It's n3 that has me concerned. I can plot out every missing kill with SK or second scum faction but n3.

Scum flipped roleblocker after all. It's possible that they roleblocked SK N3.

And they didn't block the "gunsmith" who they couldn't kill and had guiltied them the night before?