Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

[Not Chara]

and immediately regrets doing so, after witnessing that mod colour.
hello everyone.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: chesskid

FOS: davesaz

good night, i'm caught up. mastina's town, obviously. less obviously but still obviously, Varsoon is town. i don't think key is scum either.
and no, i won't explain until i've had a chance to interact in real-time.

[Not Chara]

is there a point in you posting to complain about anything, Elli? might as well not post if that's all you have to say.
i have an opinion on 577 but i may as well wait for Varsoon.

smocaine: how can you tell?

Ramcius: what about either Drixx or Mathblade makes you think that's a good place to go?

[Not Chara]

skimming but immediately Drixx is a strong townread and Creature is null at best. Also ranking everyone at post 533 is disingenuous

calling arbitrary playstyle choices disingenuous in a blanket way is scummy.

key: Alisae is keeping track of FOSes for organizational purposes.

[Not Chara]

Elli: that's fine, i'll keep complaining about your complaining as long as it's annoying. we're both free.
also, no, not really. i find distinguishing smart town from smart scum to be what's actually difficult.

[Not Chara]

chesskid: i copied your wording on purpose. i don't like your slot very much.
and do what you like. you certainly formed your lack of opinion on me quickly. not interested in my hypocrisy?
:>

Elli: if you would post readable content, i might be able to work with you.

[Not Chara]

PLing mastina is not a scummy position eityer

i never said it's scummy, i just gave my reasoning for vote on them

...?
are you wanting to PL them then.

chesskid: honestly? fair.

pedit: still town.

[Not Chara]

Math is scumreading me? now it's a mafia game.

why do you feel better about Varsoon?

[Not Chara]

Yo Chara, I have to head back to work but if there's anyone in particular you want me to look at lemme know for later. Please don't give me a hella long list though.
Idk how you're doing but i'm still stuck at 5ish townread wise (Rational, Wheme, Varsoon, Luv, and You) and basically nothing else.

what did i do to make you like me?

talk about your Uzi townread. i like the rest of your list.
a read on chesskid would be helpful as well.

[Not Chara]

davesaz, what do you think about Ramcius?

Towny

why is this towny?

FOS: chesskid

VOTE: Mulch

pedit: i've been trying to come up with an opinion there. i need to see more, he's difficult. right now Ramcius is similar to tasteless white bread.

[Not Chara]

And why would I stop it when you townread my top scumread?

Like how do you townread it?

@NC What do you make of Ramicus?

--Math

wait, which top scumread? the only overlap i see with Elli's list and your scumlist is Varsoon, who you've dialed back the scumread on, and myself. am i the top?

[Not Chara]

yes, i misread.
sorry Mathblade, looks like we can't work together.

again

.
Rational is probably but not definitely town. i'll be more sure once you explain the scumread.

pedit: quoted post is a question for Mulch, reason for voting them is the ISO.

[Not Chara]

is there a point in you posting to complain about anything, Elli? might as well not post if that's all you have to say.
i have an opinion on 577 but i may as well wait for Varsoon.

smocaine: how can you tell?

Ramcius: what about either Drixx or Mathblade makes you think that's a good place to go?

@NotChara -- And a softball question set up to sheep Ramicus later helps you read him because...?

@chesskid -- Been keeping him updated on Slack. He just posts less than I do.

--Math

did you miss the part where i'm townreading you? perhaps i wasn't clear in my question to Ramcius, but i find his vote bad. just not scummy.

[Not Chara]

PLing mastina is not a scummy position eityer

i never said it's scummy, i just gave my reasoning for vote on them

...?
are you wanting to PL them then.

chesskid: honestly? fair.

pedit: still town.

no, i just think it's good starting point as they are null read for me and some things pings in what they posted

Why didn't you follow this up further Not Chara?

See what Ramicus was thinking? Instead you comment on this now being a mafia game.

Was it because I am clearly not a viable mislynch wagon?

--Math

I have lots of reasons but I have to go to work.

i doubt i'd get any more on that. his answer told me what he was thinking. Ramcius isn't my focus, the answer was fine if not particularly readable.

my comment was a joke, because you scumread me in nearly every if not all our games.
find evidence i've ever been interested in lynching you. or sheeping

Ramcius

of all players.

[Not Chara]

i didn't talk about it anywhere else.
i don't like going through quoting ISOs on mobile.
why'd you say it was towny if you don't find it that way? did you at the time?

other things i don't like about mulch include statements like the one to Maki about finding something scummy but townreading the answer, and the 'my bad' to Varsoon. second is just intuitive, first looks like scum finding players towny unconsciously.
i recognize that isn't much. still my best guess for scum.

[Not Chara]

actually i would like to know why you're townreading Ramcius.

[Not Chara]

chesskid: it makes me feel like asking why, because i can't read him.

Mulch: it's not bad. the way you said it reminded me of a feeling i've had as scum about seeing towniness in town players because one knows they're town. do you know why her response feels towny?
apologizing for being a dick isn't a bad thing to do, i suppose. i'll look at it again.
i guess if you don't remember you don't remember. was it the context of the question?

FOS:

Uzi
bye for now.

[Not Chara]

Hey Alc, did you ever consider Leon could be Morgana and his dumbass roleslipped?

Help me understand your reaction

Briefly, but figured he wouldn't have roleslipped someone else's PM.

if you missed Akira's role PM, how did you consider that Leonshade could be Morgana, even 'briefly'?

(i know there are questions for me, i'll get to those alter. and hello, Leonshade!)

[Not Chara]

just deleted a 20 minute post.
in other news. love mafia. glad to be back. Penguin, you're wrong and about 15 minutes of that was dedicated to you.<3
i'll be back once the apathy sets back in and i can post.
UNVOTE:

mulch for god's sake we don't lynch players in mafia over flip bets i will policy you.

[Not Chara]

mulch? shut it. i don't get mad at playing terribly. i get mad when you play terribly and have the gall to blame everyone else for wanting to lynch you for it. grow up.

[Not Chara]

alright, alright.
i've dealt with town who've flipped out and selfed, thus hurting the game. this is similar, no reason to be angry.
Mulch is town, but i don't want him in the game. i'll consider policy.

Leon: regarding your question about my initial reads post. the strength of those reads was exaggerated, and the fos on davesaz entirely arbitrary because i felt like putting one down. my posts after that one were genuine for reads, however.
pedit: please spoiler the quote walls chess. i only have my phone for the night and it's aggravating. also Varsoon continues to be my pillar of sanity in this delightfully frustrating game that's barely started. yes, that's buddying Math.

pedit: posts, posts, posts.

[Not Chara]

omg ffs chara I had faith in you
he's not town.
this is faked

to be fair, only town has ever frustrated me like this. 100% success rate on this.
faking this sort of behaviour is an easy way to get policied, as Drixx is campaigning for now and i agree with. if a scum ploy, it's awful.
doesn't mean i wouldn't be happy to see Mulch flip. just trying to weigh pros and cons here.

[Not Chara]

i feel as though Varsoon's emotional reaction to things like Penguin's ideas about what "flavour is alignment indicative" means and interactions with chesskid were more intense than the reaction to Mulch's gamethrow.
is it my head or not?

[Not Chara]

I already sent in a report. My issues with the Mulch gamethrow, if it's coming from town, are issues that are independent of what should be happening in this gamespace.
I'd like to not spend any more game-space energy talking about Mulch.
That said, we can probably PoE a shitload of town around it, so that's cool?
Unless we're being punked and Akira's identity means shit-all.

paranoia gone, now i feel silly.

[Not Chara]

hello everyone! don't have time to post tonight. but i've been reading along. see you tomorrow.

[Not Chara]

sort of all over the place right now. i think only Leon and Math have been talking to or about me, so it's probably fine.
Math, when you get back: (this is in reference to 1272)
intro: i don't know the flavour, are you able to link to where this "reporting for duty" phrasing is found?
mastina's readslist: how is this different from her readslist behavior in every one of her games? (if you only played with mastina in WWF, you can consider this me informing you of that)

i've been putting off going over the case post on me, as no one else has said anything about it so i don't see the point. i want to see what Drixx has. i like to think my experience with Math has lead me to be able to read them even a little better, but it's possible they're aware of what play factors i try to use to do that.

[Not Chara]

Leon: remembered i didn't fully respond to 705. i mentioned that the strength of those reads was exaggerated, but the townreads on mastina and Varsoon were real. Varsoon is unrelated to his roleclaiming, i'm not in the habit of dismissing a player due to something like that. mastina was based on her yelling, a little. less so with the roleclaim and more the way she went about it. i probably can't read mastina very well but i'd consider the hydra a minor townread still.
any reads i form just from reading are usually not great, and i've accepted that, so i don't put a lot of stock in them.

you also asked about my key read: constant complaining about being scumread looked either like annoyed town or scum thinking the reasoning is bad. looked like the former, i could go back and see posts in particular if you're curious. i also like to be contrary to thread temperature on any given slot, apparently.

pedit: Mulch? ...you?

[Not Chara]

you mentioned chess's posts being town motivated. i'm going through the playerlist, could you talk about that read since you're here?
and that player was Math.

pedit: well i'm not voting anyone now, i unvoted Mulch after that whole thing to reset. remind me why you liked it?

[Not Chara]

chess: right, i asked why you were townreading Ramcius. did you answer? i don't like having null reads on slots with content.
and alright.

pedit: well, i'm finished that ISO that i've been putting off because it's too long. chess is a townread now. i wish i remembered why i voted him earlier.

[Not Chara]

i'm talking about 640, when i asked about someone else's Ramcius townread.

[Not Chara]

reporting for duty is an exceptionally common thing for any police character to say. it's also a common phrase. i'd consider it too general to be a crumb unless it's something particularly noteworthy. Varsoon? or your notes, when you have time.

pedit: thanks chess.

[Not Chara]

Kise: do you have experience with Uzi?
i don't like 300. earlier Uzi doesn't like Maki's unexplained Wheme scumread, but is suspecting her reasons aren't the same as his. i can't articulate why the post bothers me beyond it seeming bullshit.
why's Penguin town, Uzi? (528)

632 to 642 were why i fosed Uzi initially. the latter is essentially a potshot, which isn't scummy by itself, but reading Mulch's posting in between 632 and 642 there isn't any anger to be seen, so i wonder why Uzi felt the need to comment. regardless of Mulch's alignment, it feels off. Uzi answers later that Mulch was reading annoyed and defensive. in 660 Mulch asks if he's missing something, and Uzi again reads this as defensiveness, and claims he just wanted to talk.
i don't like 661 at all. what conversation can you have if you ask why someone is angry, then when they claim they aren't and ask for clarification, end off with 661?

though, whoever it was that said Mulch scum makes Uzi very likely town, i agree.

[Not Chara]

Who was saying "Reporting For Duty" in this game?

eddie cane's entrance. 332

Math pointed it out in 1272.

[Not Chara]

I feel like LUV is being low effort because he has an important/PT role and doesn't need to tryhard, but he's still shady to me

can you explain why you got this feeling?

and why you're townreading him now? i'll look at Elli in a moment.

[Not Chara]

i don't consider that townreading him.

Now do tell, why would kisescum let everyone else know secret information? In fact as opposed to trying to help the docs and watchers of the world, why would kisescum make that list of town/PTs in 1129 rather than share that with his scum behind the scenes so they could avoid docs and watchers and kill someone like LUVtown for instance?

were you not saying you townread him here, or was that a hypothetical?

[Not Chara]

and i understand that line of thought, but how do you differentiate purposeful low key play from not? i was wondering if it was something specific about Uzi that you don't see elsewhere. your answer was more about general town PR strategy.
pedit: thanks.

[Not Chara]

Akira's role PM says arcana are collected from scum fake claims, so i don't think the first point would matter.
i agree on the second, however.

[Not Chara]

Smocaine, why RN, and then in your pedit what does "I think this towns" mean?

Drixx, i'd like to see your case on me when you have the time.

and while adding a rolecop is more powerful, the utility of a cop isn't improved as considerably as you're saying here, i think.

[Not Chara]

I have an open invitation for people to look at your ISO and see if they see what I did. So far one person has responded and said they didn't. We have time. The increasing frequency with which you are displaying concern about what case I have against you isn't helping. It's almost like you know for sure we're town, know we are going to die and you want to force me to post something you can try and argue against before that happens. But you know me and how I work, especially in hydra. I put a case up when I've done the work and I cannot find any holes to poke in it.

As for your assertion that Dave gaining more information when he investigates isn't a "considerable" improvement... that seems pretty bad. If it works the way flavor would suggest, then it makes something he's already going to do result in more information. There is no world where town players should not want dave to have our arcana.

~D

so i want to force you to put up a case on me before you have a chance to die?

really

?
i know how you work, and i know you take time. that's why i specified to do so when you have time. meta on Mathblade has me thinking you're town, and if you are and wrong about me it's better in the long run to rectify that. but this response to me is a little annoying and makes me want to try and read this head. what

you

should know about me by now is i like read players based on how they're reading me, so i engage them on their reads on me. i do it in every game.
and again, forcing you to post a case as opposed to letting you die with only what Math said is just ???? as a scum strategy, Drixx.

my point about dave's investigate is that powering up a cop dave already has isn't strong enough to be particularly better than any other arcana he might get. i want him to have your arcana as much as anyone else's. and i thought you said you belief was he would have to choose between a normal cop shot or your role cop shot. did i misunderstand?

[Not Chara]

why are you scumreading Kise and Leon?

[Not Chara]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Drixx, could you do me a favour and not say i've misrepresented you when my post literally contained the question "did i misunderstand?"
i don't understand the difference between what you said and what i said. the fact that there are multiple ways the role could be balanced doesn't change the fact that one of your ideas about it was the one i described.
and i wish you would have responded to the other half of my post that wasn't about your role utility. even just to acknowledge its existence.

i'll finish my ISOs now. probably.

Elli: sorry, i meant to chat with you but i had to take care of something. while Kise's posting on that page wasn't exactly enthusing to read, i'm not sure i hate the sentiment of putting pressure on a slot as someone replaces in, even if it's not something i'd personally find useful.

Kise: could you answer [post]1305[post] for me?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

pedit: bye. :<

[Not Chara]

HEAL: Uzi
HEAL: davesaz
forgot about those.

pedit: what happened to following davesaz?
peditx2: i was going to ask why you were following my vote.

[Not Chara]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Drixx, could you do me a favour and not say i've misrepresented you when my post literally contained the question "did i misunderstand?"
i don't understand the difference between what you said and what i said. the fact that there are multiple ways the role could be balanced doesn't change the fact that one of your ideas about it was the one i described.
and i wish you would have responded to the other half of my post that wasn't about your role utility. even just to acknowledge its existence.

i'll finish my ISOs now. probably.

Elli: sorry, i meant to chat with you but i had to take care of something. while Kise's posting on that page wasn't exactly enthusing to read, i'm not sure i hate the sentiment of putting pressure on a slot as someone replaces in, even if it's not something i'd personally find useful.

Kise: could you answer 1305 for me?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

pedit: bye. :<

fixed the post tags.

[Not Chara]

why's that?

[Not Chara]

you got it, Math. i was talking about our scum PT.
thrilling.

i know your case isn't done. unless you're telling me Reckoner already knows the parts of your Nurple case you haven't posted via telepathy, my point about him agreeing with a case that isn't much still stands.

[Not Chara]

no. i'm done being nice to you. you don't get to command me if you refuse to engage with anything i'm saying.

[Not Chara]

Nurple is a townread, i have no read on Ramcius, and Elli is someone i'm working on right now.
sorry for snapping.

pedit: i suppose it was because you didn't say anything about reckoner. and this game it feels like i can't speak to either hydra head without being what feels like purposefully misunderstood.

[Not Chara]

i shouldn't have gotten annoyed. i'll be back later.

[Not Chara]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Drixx, could you do me a favour and not say i've misrepresented you when my post literally contained the question "did i misunderstand?"
i don't understand the difference between what you said and what i said. the fact that there are multiple ways the role could be balanced doesn't change the fact that one of your ideas about it was the one i described.
and i wish you would have responded to the other half of my post that wasn't about your role utility. even just to acknowledge its existence.

i'll finish my ISOs now. probably.

Elli: sorry, i meant to chat with you but i had to take care of something. while Kise's posting on that page wasn't exactly enthusing to read, i'm not sure i hate the sentiment of putting pressure on a slot as someone replaces in, even if it's not something i'd personally find useful.

Kise: could you answer [post]1305[post] for me?

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

pedit: bye. :<

You mean because I said it wasn't done lolol.

Sobriety is a thing required for mafia.

Pray tell how would you chat with E???

--Math

if you're scumreading reckoner, why can't we talk about him jumping on the nurple wagon from a case you've said isn't complete? i find the vote suspicious.
your response was instead about how the case was weak because it wasn't done. nothing to do with reckoner, just jabs at me.
if you think he's bussing that's fine, but i don't remember you saying so. i might've missed it.

[Not Chara]

i've gotten more sick, but it's left me in bed with nothing to do except stare blankly at a mafia thread. i don't feel like finishing my readslist but maybe i will after doing some talking. for now i'll double ISO Chikorita and Varsoon.
i still like the Uzi wagon. Elli and Smocaine are also on to-do.

pedit: oh hello, let's read that.

[Not Chara]

Varsoon: i checked out Chikorita. i do see what you're seeing with them. i don't want to give my full feelings until echo (i believe that's the one who was speaking to you, Varsoon?) replies to it, or i'll just be feeding them answers.
that said, there's nothing that looks town so i wouldn't mind a wagon there.
Smocaine and Elli next. probably shouldn't be doing this when i can't think straight.

i can't remember, do you have stated opinions on Uzi and those two?

[Not Chara]

Rational's town. they're town, Drixx and Math both have convinced me. i have no angle to engage either of them on but they are. i started writing a post complaining about Drixx's attempts to mechanical clear but i've realized it isn't worth it. i'm never lynching that hydra. maybe after Math's post i can begin to untangle their bad reads, though.

[Not Chara]

Varsoon, do you think you could manage to come up with an Uzi read for me?
and i meant echo as in the half of the hydra who called you pretentious and such.

[Not Chara]

Rational's town. they're town, Drixx and Math both have convinced me. i have no angle to engage either of them on but they are. i started writing a post complaining about Drixx's attempts to mechanical clear but i've realized it isn't worth it. i'm never lynching that hydra. maybe after Math's post i can begin to untangle their bad reads, though.

Figuring out the game setup and mechanics and using them for the most optimal utility is like one of my defining traits. There's a whole load of town games you can point to where I do it or Cerb and I do it in hydra. That makes it basically a guarantee that if you go find a scum game of mine you're going to see it there also. Like ... it would be really terrible play on my part if I left out one of the most defining characteristics of how I play when I draw scum, wouldn't it?

I mean ... hell. You can go back to my first proper (non-newbie) game on site, SMITE, and I used a mechanics claim to convince people I was a 3rd party with a win con that benefitted town.

I laughed out loud when I saw PN try to casually suggest that ME going for a mechanical clear is a scum tell. My wife wanted to know what was so funny.

~Drixx

that's nice, and i assume this isn't directed at me but rather the game as a whole, because i just said i think you're town. i brought it up because i don't think that will actually clear you and i find your repetition of your crumbs to be a little pointless. i haven't asked you to do anything else because i know asking Drixx to not do what you're doing on day 1 is like asking me to play mafia in a coherent and ordered fashion.

pedit: haha, oh. i can only tell sometimes, they speak a bit differently.

[Not Chara]

do you think he's town?

[Not Chara]

Conclusion 2 – Not Chara is not a Phantom Thief and scum likely knew of Davesaz at the start.
 The FoS on Davesaz in 489
 This means either A) Not Chara was reaction testing and is a Phantom Thief or B ) genuinely didn’t know.
 When its FoS is mentioned they said they were town and didn’t know not a reaction test. This means either A) Not Chara is town without knowledge Davesaz is town OR B ) Not Chara is scum and didn’t know Davesaz is town. Or C ) Was trying to lure out the Phantom Thieves by seeing who reacted to the FoS. However it did not think about the potential town reason for doing so and then just said “I’m town but I didn’t know” (paraphrase)

where did i say that?
i've never said i didn't know who davesaz was. i've never said i did know. technically, i've never even said i was town (if i did and don't remember, wouldn't that be funny) because such a thing should be implicit, as everyone in this game is saying 'i am town' with every one of their posts. in fact all i said on the subject was telling Leon my choice in FoS was arbitrary.
but at the risk of being more confusing, it was a coincidence. i didn't know davesaz was Akira, i just picked someone random.

the rest of it is because i've been townreading your scumreads. that's fine, i don't care much about that.

[Not Chara]

Phantom Thieves would know 1 player out of 21 others (not 22 because we ourselves know we are town). Having scum not know and some town not know means they’d have to be careful about how to do it to not alert scum. A town could end up with an FoS because they vote Dave. It’s mainly that Not Chara did not have an explanation for the Davesaz FoS that make it lock scum. It was almost certainly reaction testing, not what it claimed.

i did explain it. it was random. i glanced at the playerlist and remembered davesaz existed so i threw an fos vote down. i'd thought dave, or someone else, might ask me about the fos in a way i could get some information about.
apparently it was bad luck, because he ended up being Akira and now you have a massive theory about it that's based on a coincidental sequence of events.

[Not Chara]

the post right before Smocaine posted, i'd say.

this game is too difficult. i don't know what possessed me to replace into a large as my first game in a while.
i need to reset. i don't like the play of any of my confident townreads (Leon isn't a confident townread, just a townlean, also Leon please come back, if you're town i need someone to talk to), and i don't have a lot of good scumreads. there's Uzi, but the one part of his play i buy is the commentary on Eddie's fake gladiate towards Math. honestly, confirmation of Nurple's alignment would go a long way to figuring this mess out. i don't know if i'm townreading them anymore, but i don't think the scumcase is at all believable. what i should really be doing is examining his explanation for the gladiate, i guess.

[Not Chara]

Eddie, i find your ISO impossible to parse. that's not a complaint, it's an explanation for my question.
what's your read on me?
can you quote where you explained why Rational's reaction to your gladiate looked like scum?
what's the meta you have on Uzi?

[Not Chara]

the post right before Smocaine posted, i'd say.

this game is too difficult. i don't know what possessed me to replace into a large as my first game in a while.
i need to reset. i don't like the play of any of my confident townreads (Leon isn't a confident townread, just a townlean, also Leon please come back, if you're town i need someone to talk to), and i don't have a lot of good scumreads. there's Uzi, but the one part of his play i buy is the commentary on Eddie's fake gladiate towards Math. honestly, confirmation of Nurple's alignment would go a long way to figuring this mess out. i don't know if i'm townreading them anymore, but i don't think the scumcase is at all believable. what i should really be doing is examining his explanation for the gladiate, i guess.

before I respond to the post below this, why exactly are you scumreading luv? and, what does confirming my alignment tell you?

Kise: do you have experience with Uzi?
i don't like 300. earlier Uzi doesn't like Maki's unexplained Wheme scumread, but is suspecting her reasons aren't the same as his. i can't articulate why the post bothers me beyond it seeming bullshit.
why's Penguin town, Uzi? (528)

632 to 642 were why i fosed Uzi initially. the latter is essentially a potshot, which isn't scummy by itself, but reading Mulch's posting in between 632 and 642 there isn't any anger to be seen, so i wonder why Uzi felt the need to comment. regardless of Mulch's alignment, it feels off. Uzi answers later that Mulch was reading annoyed and defensive. in 660 Mulch asks if he's missing something, and Uzi again reads this as defensiveness, and claims he just wanted to talk.
i don't like 661 at all. what conversation can you have if you ask why someone is angry, then when they claim they aren't and ask for clarification, end off with 661?

though, whoever it was that said Mulch scum makes Uzi very likely town, i agree.

i don't have good LUV meta, but to add to this there's the low-energy and in particular a lack of care about the game's events. that's not scummy by itself, but it gives me no reason to think he's town.

confirming your alignment tells me about LUV, for one thing. i don't trust my initial read on you, but if you're town i'd find you useful to work with. i also think it would help with Rational. you're a big presence in the game, essentially.

[Not Chara]

Eddie: ISOing Alchemist reminds me of the last thing i was trying to remember when i was writing that. there are a lot of players who jumped on the Nurple wagon after the fake gladiate and Math's unfinished case post. (i mentioned Reckoner). an opinion on your slot is in a lot of ISOs in the playerlist.

[Not Chara]

Eddie: ISOing Alchemist reminds me of the last thing i was trying to remember when i was writing that. there are a lot of players who jumped on the Nurple wagon after the fake gladiate and Math's unfinished case post. (i mentioned Reckoner). an opinion on your slot is in a lot of ISOs in the playerlist.

Unfinished doesn't automatically negate everything I said.

--Math

i never said it did, Math. i specified it was unfinished, because every time i don't specify it was unfinished,

you inform me it was unfinished to counter my saying it isn't a strong case.

[Not Chara]

Like ... you responded to Math's post and claim that you and Mastina have been talking. Then in your next post you respond to me and say Mastina has been gone. Which is it? You can't even keep the simplest of stories straight.

can you really not differentiate between Eddie explaining about conversations with mastina in the past, in pregame, and Eddie saying that

since

pregame, mastina has not posted?
especially when the conversation is about mastina's readslists, which is already a conversation about the past.
come on, Drixx.

[Not Chara]

I would be happy to be confirmed town, though the only time I've ever rolled ic I steamrolled anyways and never had to reveal but what do you mean confirm my alignment? I thought that was implying you wanted to lynch me which I was not okay with but if you want to work with me that's not it.

Ftr, luv doesn't enjoy playing town andmuch prefers scum. caring and low energy itself isn't a scum tell for him.

confirming you as town would be excellent. having you be dead through nightkill or lynch would also be useful, but less useful because that's one less player i can talk with. i wouldn't lynch someone i'm not scumreading just because their death is high-information.

i appreciate the information about LUV, thanks. what do you think of the rest of his play?
i also wanted an answer about your read on me.

pedit: ah, alright. see you later, ignore the repetition of my question.

[Not Chara]

Math, it's just a fact that mastina produces these readslists in every one of her games. every one. i bet i could find a towngame where posters and non-posters were in the same grouping. the explanation that she did this one from memory is fine.

differentiate that from specific reads on specific players like LUV, who mastina had a real opinion about.

[Not Chara]

This isn't something town says in response to 1 vote

VOTE: Yume

I think we are better off voting here rather than having a vigilante shoot here

have you played with Yume before? i don't know how to read her, but so far she hasn't done anything out of character. it's frustrating, but i don't think just lynching her is a good way to resolve it.

[Not Chara]

Yes she produces the readlists in all her games. However without fail when her reads list are obviously flawed she is scum. In WWE she included players not in the game. Here she sorts on posters with posters.

Why is this flawed list "fine" when it was a scum fell for her in WWE?

--Math

that's an anecdote, not evidence. you say "without fail". do you have more evidence? towngames? other scumgames?
and it's debatable whether that was a scum tell in WWE as opposed to being an error she would have made regardless.

[Not Chara]

I've tried multiple times since the walling started to engage them, they brushed me off. I am trying to entertain them as town but this confbiased garbage is making it really hard.

i don't know about Drixx, but being confbiased is a Mathblade towntell. grain of salt as my experience is limited to two scumgames, one bastard game, and two towngames. (not including Steven Universe here)

[Not Chara]

Bus driver got in an accident (nothing serious don't worry) and is talking to the cops, so actually do have time. Guess I'm an even bigger liar :p

Eddie, i find your ISO impossible to parse. that's not a complaint, it's an explanation for my question.
what's your read on me?
can you quote where you explained why Rational's reaction to your gladiate looked like scum?
what's the meta you have on Uzi?

I think you're town, thought it tonally from your entrance (I'm a tone reader) but didn't say it until a bit after that I think.
I know Uzi doesn't think town is a respect-worthy alignment, and much prefers playing scum. I've correctly sorted him the last couple times we've played, though as town every time, I haven't seen scum him other than hypothetically this game for a long time though.
Going and finding quotes in my wally ass iso on mobile would be... annoying, though if you still want it later remind me and I'll grab it when I'm on a computer. However, the general purpose of the gladiate was to see whether he'd react. I figured he'd know it was likely fake, but I attached some quick reasoning to make it somewhat believable because things like fake day vigs are so overdone they'll never get any sincere reaction. The fact he tried to turn it into an attack on me immediately was telling, especially because they decided to go through with claiming some role stuff even after the gladiate was proven fake by a vc very soon after the claim. It is even worse they're now trying to turn that into a scum tell on me when I fake a day vig or gladiate... almost every game (town & scum).
None of that is overly strong, btw.

i'll forget if this isn't in my ISO.
doing something else at the moment.

[Not Chara]

Math: this is mastina's first readslist in Kingdom Hearts:
i checked who'd posted and who hadn't by the time the list was made.

JaeReed - hasn't posted but here is high for personal reasons to mastina, so ignore
Creature - posted
Radiant Moonlight - posted
Statler and Waldorf - posted
MaxwellPuckett -

not posted

SlySly -

not posted

KeySkiies - posted
itlepip -

not posted

plantsy -

not posted

Imperium -

not posted

Steven Quartz - posted
Rylai and Lina - posted
Leonshade - posted
Ramcius - posted
mhsmith0 - posted
Oversoul - posted

KeySkiies, who had posted, in smack in the middle of the otherwise "hasn't posted" middle grouping. this is the first mastina towngame i checked.

[Not Chara]

I've palyed with math three times. Once, I was scum, they townread me until I was guiltied. Once, we were both town, I correctly sorted them and voted gerry but fucking dumbasses ignored me. Once, they were scum, I correctly sorted them, tunnelled them, and ended up getting really pissed at everything (particularly titus for getting pocketed by obvious garbage) and subbing out.

I agree, math tunnelling is a town tell. Did it to transcend in our game, and apparently did the same in elemental trinity (though I didn't read the part math was alive in when I subbed so not certain). The thing is, they're playing with drixx, two players who both have enormous egos should not be this tilted and have so many simple "errors" - you're even noticing the flaws in their arguments now, so it isn't just me. The hydra dynamic makes it a lot harder for me to write it off as tilted town, because I would appreciate a math that is playing well because math can be a good player, but I've tried to engage them a couple times ("explain to me why you're conf town" "would luv be scum if I revealed as ic" as examples) and they've ignored me or flat out been assholes. I'm getting sick of this.

you're right, the hydra is a factor, i've been focusing on Math. and the simple errors

need

to be addressed, especially because Drixx has signed off on those errors. and i completely understand your frustration, because i'm feeling it too.

[Not Chara]

Furthermore, people went and looked at his town blow ups and pointed out why the blow up in this game looks like a bad fake job trying to replicate that town meta he has built so he can get an ATE based town read. (Which you appear to have bought into, if I assume we live in a world where your slot is town).

i'd like to highlight this, because i don't remember any evidence being brought up of Mulch's town blowups. who are these "people", besides Elli? Elli did link some things, but they were in GD and were Mulch talking about his skill as scum, so rather irrelevant.

pedit: sure, but i remember reading this as being Wheme's usual. i do agree there's nothing to read there, and i'm not townreading Wheme.
what do you think about the discussion with Math's breakdown of the game, Eddie, and Drixx? and myself, i suppose. i'd like to know.
tunneling is a Math town thing, i checked up on this recently so it's not just my memory. what did you think of Eddie's response to me about that?

[Not Chara]

Math is "they", by the way. i meant to mention that earlier.

[Not Chara]

Drixx, you being town isn't helpful when your presented cases have major logical errors you need to address. that's what i'm asking from you here. if you're going to ask players to go back and examine your cases after you've died, it is your responsibility to prioritize the accuracy of what you and your hydra partner are saying.

[Not Chara]

Spoiler: quotes for Drixx

Conclusion 2 – Not Chara is not a Phantom Thief and scum likely knew of Davesaz at the start.
 The FoS on Davesaz in 489
 This means either A) Not Chara was reaction testing and is a Phantom Thief or B ) genuinely didn’t know.
 When its FoS is mentioned they said they were town and didn’t know not a reaction test. This means either A) Not Chara is town without knowledge Davesaz is town OR B ) Not Chara is scum and didn’t know Davesaz is town. Or C ) Was trying to lure out the Phantom Thieves by seeing who reacted to the FoS. However it did not think about the potential town reason for doing so and then just said “I’m town but I didn’t know” (paraphrase)

where did i say that?
i've never said i didn't know who davesaz was. i've never said i did know. technically, i've never even said i was town (if i did and don't remember, wouldn't that be funny) because such a thing should be implicit, as everyone in this game is saying 'i am town' with every one of their posts. in fact all i said on the subject was telling Leon my choice in FoS was arbitrary.
but at the risk of being more confusing, it was a coincidence. i didn't know davesaz was Akira, i just picked someone random.

the rest of it is because i've been townreading your scumreads. that's fine, i don't care much about that.

Phantom Thieves would know 1 player out of 21 others (not 22 because we ourselves know we are town). Having scum not know and some town not know means they’d have to be careful about how to do it to not alert scum. A town could end up with an FoS because they vote Dave. It’s mainly that Not Chara did not have an explanation for the Davesaz FoS that make it lock scum. It was almost certainly reaction testing, not what it claimed.

i did explain it. it was random. i glanced at the playerlist and remembered davesaz existed so i threw an fos vote down. i'd thought dave, or someone else, might ask me about the fos in a way i could get some information about.
apparently it was bad luck, because he ended up being Akira and now you have a massive theory about it that's based on a coincidental sequence of events.

Like ... you responded to Math's post and claim that you and Mastina have been talking. Then in your next post you respond to me and say Mastina has been gone. Which is it? You can't even keep the simplest of stories straight.

can you really not differentiate between Eddie explaining about conversations with mastina in the past, in pregame, and Eddie saying that

since

pregame, mastina has not posted?
especially when the conversation is about mastina's readslists, which is already a conversation about the past.
come on, Drixx.

Conclusion 1e – The Purple Nurple hydra has lied and admitted it 4 times.
Lie 1: We have an anti town role lynch us immediately OMG. (Rescinded 1404
Lie 2: We have an arcana (and therefore are a Phantom Thief and therefore are town). They lack the prerequisite knowledge davesaz being town.
Lie 3: They are a gladiator (claim viewtopic.php?p=9666471#p9666471 (Rescinded: 1393
Lie 4: We were “lock scum” in multiple posts and should have known it fake. In the post game it was specifically mentioned that our gladiate was very negative utility. I couldn’t talk normally until I gladiated someone. Saying you were negative utility and then gladiating us still could have been neg utility as the game I was a neg utility gladiator in was an Alisae setup. 1402 waffling on our alignment on. (Aka not lock scum …it was a reaction test after MANY posts calling us scum)
Lie 5: Mastina has not posted since pregame. Several posts the hydra has mentioned thinking “mastina and I” think blank…Then if mastina is not posting, she is talking with you on some chat platform or some forum thread or something. Otherwise ther eis no “Mastina and I” think. This means either A) this is a teaching hydra which is fine if it is, but instead you’re passing it off as a lack of investment from mastina which seems incorrect if she is talking with you.

That wasn't a lie. Mastina misread our role pm, which I've been clear about.
Any player with an arcana that doesn't know who dave is can claim if needed. Non-PTs have arcanas too,

varsoon already went over this to you

.
Lie 3 is hilarious but cool.
Want to go into

literally any of my town games?

In penguin's mini I invented reasons to scumread thor for reactions (town win). In our last game mastina fake fos'd jae early as a rxn test (town loss, but we tunnelled both scum all game so...). In implosion's game I lied almost constantly around my role to get proper innos (innoing with a loyal role is annoying). I'm pretty sure in every single town game I've played in the past year I've lied about reads for reactions, so yes, I think this argument is bull.
What several posts? The only time I've said Mastina and I was a LONG time ago and that was in reference to things we discussed in pregame - like, for example, mastina thinking you're scum but not wanting to push you until she was more sure because you're both players with massive egos that were going to turn it into a massive explosion of rage regardless of alignment (I added in the reasoning but she did scumread you and not want to push you ).




Your case on me is horrible, your case on my hydra is horrible, and I am doubting this is just tilted town.

this as well.

Furthermore, people went and looked at his town blow ups and pointed out why the blow up in this game looks like a bad fake job trying to replicate that town meta he has built so he can get an ATE based town read. (Which you appear to have bought into, if I assume we live in a world where your slot is town).

i'd like to highlight this, because i don't remember any evidence being brought up of Mulch's town blowups. who are these "people", besides Elli? Elli did link some things, but they were in GD and were Mulch talking about his skill as scum, so rather irrelevant.

Drixx, i do promise a more concise write-up sometime today. this is just a collection of issues i've had that have stood out.

[Not Chara]

Math: this is mastina's first readslist in Kingdom Hearts:
i checked who'd posted and who hadn't by the time the list was made.

JaeReed - hasn't posted but here is high for personal reasons to mastina, so ignore
Creature - posted
Radiant Moonlight - posted
Statler and Waldorf - posted
MaxwellPuckett -

not posted

SlySly -

not posted

KeySkiies - posted
itlepip -

not posted

plantsy -

not posted

Imperium -

not posted

Steven Quartz - posted
Rylai and Lina - posted
Leonshade - posted
Ramcius - posted
mhsmith0 - posted
Oversoul - posted

KeySkiies, who had posted, in smack in the middle of the otherwise "hasn't posted" middle grouping. this is the first mastina towngame i checked.

might as well quote this for Drixx too. a part of Math's case on Purple Nurple is that mastina's readslist in this game was proven to have players who hadn't posted mixed in with tiers of players who had, thus being a shame. Math compared this to Kuroi's WWE, a game Math, myself, and mastina were all in, where mastina's (scum) readslist contained players not in the game. this is an example of town mastina's readslist also containing an 'error', the same one Math is calling a scumtell here.

[Not Chara]

Hey, LUV is here. Thoughts on the PN/RN bidirectional tunnel? Thoughts on Yume, WhemeStar, Alchemist please.
If you say something about PN/RN and include quotes please edit heavily. The vertical screen space editing saves (along with consequent reading time reduction) is precious.

I'll answer this too :p

Yume is 70/30 scum, fine/happy with a wagon there especially because at worst we hit miller

Wheme the last time we played I was scum and WKd them, ended up "letting" them get lynched. Long time ago. They felt town earlier on, but not enthralled with the low activity so I'll call it a town lean instead of read

Alchemist is useless

i had Yume at null, but with the information from Drixx on Yume going back to her lurking approach after some progress in a towngame, i might be slightly more in favour of thinking her scum, but not very much. lurking Yume who posts odd, non-game-related things is my only experience with her, and i only have town experience. the fact that she hasn't gone entirely inactive and is still posting in the game is something.

Wheme hasn't posted anything worthwhile, but there are plenty of reads at least. nothing i can read, however.

Alchemist is also nothing. besides the slip at the beginning, there's just no content. he's not doing anything.

pedit: i think the Ramcius and Chikorita conversation has reached its endpoint. i don't see anything wrong with Ramcius putting a random vote down in the absence of a real scumread, and little to suggest he's lying about that.

[Not Chara]

I don't think assuming scum don't know who he is is occams razoring.
Like that's the literal only reason you think he's not scum yeah?

I don't really think Mulch is intelligent enough to fake this outburst

Eh.
I disagree.

Look here, especially at iso numbers 8-14: viewtopic.php?t=72279&f=5&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

He's an arrogant little fuck about his winrate and playstyle as both alignments. And the game's he's whining about being mislynched in here had happened already. Doesn't not match up with this breakdown at all.

Elli is the only player who said that, Drixx. he did provide evidence. unfortunately the context of his evidence wasn't a a towngame of Mulch's where he blew up. so we're left with the only evidence that Mulch's breakdown is different from town Mulch being Elli's word.
you used this as a point against Eddie, as though Eddie should take Elli on his word without that important evidence.

[Not Chara]

Actually, I didn't do much day 1 in that game either. It was from day 2 onwards that I actually did stuff, and even then, it was because I had the means to do so.

so will do you do things when you have the means to do so?

[Not Chara]

so i really liked RN's case on mastina tho

what about it did you like? it wasn't much of a case.

Specifically, how mastina pulled reads out of her ass before people had even posted. That hadn't registered with me on an initial read.

dave reminded me of this post.
it makes it more believable to me that Reckoner would like the case on mastina, not knowing her usual style.
Reck, what's your opinion on this after looking at the mastina readslist i quoted in [post[1709[/post]? do you still think bullshit reads in that initial list are a good reason to wagon Nurple?

[Not Chara]

That was @RN

Also, you will have what you asked for soon, Lil' Lappy.

@NC Yes, I will.

good to know. :>
i see no reason to lynch Yume today over any of the other null players.

[Not Chara]

I’m null on Alchemist. However him encouraging Maki to wagon Kise while not moving his vote off of Purple to support them pinged me a bit.

that's a good point. i don't know why i didn't ask Alchemist why he was scumreading Kise at the time, so i'll ask now.

I think Wheme is scum. I strongly believe 174 to be a slip due to how out of place it was and having that concern at the time. I think he got caught trying to fake a read in 494 on Not Chara and I think he’s now trying to do it again with Smocaine.

what do you mean by that post being a slip?
i read 494 and subsequent retraction as Wheme having meta on ActionDan lurking/replacing out as scum, then learning that wasn't the case after Elli explained.
what's he doing with Smocaine now, can you quote it?

[Not Chara]

I think he’s faking a read. I don’t buy that he scum reads him Chara.

yes, i figured that out when you said it the first time. i meant could you quote where he's doing that and explain why it looks fake.

[Not Chara]

I think it’s fake because he usually points to things that give him his gut scum reads and he isn’t doing that with Smocaine.

so it's meta?
you didn't answer my question about why that other Wheme post you pointed out was a slip, or reply to what i said about my thoughts on his ActionDan scumread.

Wheme, what's with the lack of explanation for your desire to lynch Smocaine?

[Not Chara]

so you know i know what a scumslip is, good. then maybe it would be better to say why that post was a slip instead of repeating that it was one. i don't think you're being purposefully obtuse in answering me but if i ask a question, ignoring it won't make it go away just because you believe the answer was self-explanatory. and thanks for the answer on the latter point, now i understand what your problem with it was. i'm trying to read you, if that wasn't obvious.

i'll be back later this evening.

[Not Chara]

Is that in the OP? You can be vanilla in a role madness game.

...yes, and?
what's that have to do with anything? how often do scum publicly PR hunt to make sure they don't accidentally kill the

one

vanilla townie that could be in a role madness game, anyway?

i usually find the PR-hunting narrative goes nowhere when looking for scum. i rarely see scum do it and more often than anything see town doing it when trying to solve the game. i think Alchemist's behaviour this game has been suspicious, too, and i don't see what's scummy about Kise's concern with it. i don't like the feelings i'm getting from LUV here either.

i do have a problem with Kise however, that would be how aware he is of his own PR hunting and how scummy it does look. it's possible he's doing that on purpose entirely so players can think things like what i'm thinking above. his LUV read also bothered me but i need to reread for that. as of now i think it's still a townlean.

it's possible i'm reading LUV's smug attitude as scum instead of that actually being indicative of scum, but his scumreads so far haven't impressed me in their reasoning. feels like he's less interested in pushing scum and more interested in leaving things as they are and 'pushing' in a passive sense.

Rational is town and i don't want Nurple to be the wagon today either.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: Smocaine
how'd you get such strong townreads when you can't muster a scumread?

[Not Chara]

actually i've answered my own question. i don't have any strong scumreads either. Elli/LUV/Smocaine are all good wagons though.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: LUV
ignore my brief moment of whatever that was. i have to stop forgetting to post before looking at my posts from last night. LUV's scumreads are all not good.

[Not Chara]

that's true, i was more referring to your earlier commentary about PR hunting. i'll find it when i'm not on mobile.
i've not seen lynchproof except on scum, no, but i doubt it can't be a town role in a large role madness. it isn't enough for me to want to lynch her without seeing if she makes good on her promise to do more soon.

what are you playing Kise?

[Not Chara]

oh, while you're here, i remembered what my problem with you was. you assumed LUV was a town PR purposefully playing lowkey to avoid attention, but didn't have any reason to think so beyond you believing it a common strategy for town PRs. what do you actually think of his play? you've mentioned being suspicious of certain things he's said. what have you gotten from this conversation with him on the last few pages?

pedit: i'll go over it again later, i'm surprised you don't know why. what's your read on me LUV?

Varsoon: i don't think an unclaimed loved modifier is a scum indicator in the first place, sorry. it's difficult to follow a push you don't seem sure about yourself.

[Not Chara]

first part of 1911 was to Kise, whoops.

[Not Chara]

I’m going to be honest Chara and say I have no clue why you scum read me.

i'm having a hard time believe you're lacking in this much self-awareness. you've ignored my questions when you've felt them self-explanatory and getting information about your thoughts on anything is like pulling teeth. your Wheme scumread is lazy and i've explained my other issues with your behaviour in several posts if you'd just ISO me.

[Not Chara]

@mod I like your new avi

Wheme, what's with the lack of explanation for your desire to lynch Smocaine?

[Not Chara]

it didn't look like a joke to me. it looked like a vague threat, and from someone besides Yume i likely would have voted it. i wouldn't be surprised if it's fake, however.
...i don't know how to read her, sorry. i want to see if what i've heard and what Drixx says about her townplay improving is true. she's not a slot i'm concerned with today.

[Not Chara]

i don't think you're doing much to remedy that fact. that specific question is just one i realized wasn't useful after i said it. and i think you're a good wagon because pushing you seems like it would have results. you seem to have a grasp on who your townreads are but you're not pushing anyone or looking for ways to get into the game.

[Not Chara]

i don't mind sheeping one's townreads, but if you don't go beyond that then all you're doing is making one of them a double-voter. i guess i just want to see more active participation, i'm not even sure if i'd call it a scumread. i'm interested in the meta Creature and Whemestar seem to have on you, though.

[Not Chara]

Math, i'm including the possibility of more scum Phantom Thieves, so it wouldn't have to require you lying. and i don't find it unlikely scum would have multiple Phantom Thieves, but only endgame can answer that.

pedit: well that's no fun. :>