Beneath The Mask [Endgame]
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Brian Skies Survivor
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In post 49, Yume wrote:My new name is Meredith. I am a criminal, yet I am also a good girl. Therefore, I am both mafia and town. Make of that what you will.In post 74, Yume wrote:Did I mention I am both mafia and town? Also, I am Arcana.
Is there more to your claim that you're willing to divulge? There are some things about your claim that go directly against what I know of the game and my thoughts on the setup mechanics.In post 107, Yume wrote:Why would I mention that? Because I am a miller and I was under the impression that millers should claim being millers as soon as possible.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I'd rather lynch it tbh.In post 1075, Purple Nurple wrote:ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.
any objections?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Obligatory mechanics discussion since most of you don't have a clue and I'm getting a headache reading through some of your posts.
There are 22 player slots in this game. There are also 22 Major Arcana, each representing a social link for the main character to interact with and earn more abilities (Persona is at its heart a dating sim after all). Arcana aren't limited to Phantom Thieves and anyone whose relationship can provide benefits to the main character is represented by an Arcana (with the exception of I think The World, which is usually given to the main character at or near the endgame). The Arcana are based on The Fool's Journey and the journey the player takes (starting with The Fool and ending at The World) provides the basis for the plot for at least Persona 3, Persona 4, and Persona 5.
It is important to note that in the game, the main character starts with The Fool Arcana. However, here he starts with The World (I'm presuming this is because this is the only Arcana not associated with a social link and is only represented by the main character in the game). The Fool is actually a social link given to the main character by the main bad guy in the game, also known as The Holy Grail, and I'm assuming there is a strong likelihood that Arcana is scum here.
From the Public Role PM, we can deduce that every player has an Arcana (this is not limited to just Phantom Thieves). Even if the player is scum, Dave will just collect the Arcana associated with the player's fakeclaim.In post 2, Alisae wrote:Playing The Hero (Collector/Enabled Modified Alignment Cop): During the night, you may target someone. If you are enabled, you will visit them twice, well because you are peforming two actions on them. The first action you preform you will collect their Arcana. You will collect Arcana from the Conspiracy's fake claims. The second action you will preform you will Alignment Cop them. You will either get "Conspiracy" or "Not Conspiracy." If you get a "Conspiracy" you will send them a Calling Card.
It is also important to note that if each player slot is associated with an Arcana that it is unlikely for scum of one Arcana (if they have one; presumably The Holy Grail and/or Goro Akechi) to have a fakeclaim associated with another Arcana.
Fakeclaims were supposedly picked by scum but I think there is probably at least one case where a fakeclaim was predetermined. If this is not the case, then any player without an Arcana is an immediate red flag.
This is mostly determinant on the roles and fakeclaims falling within the following list (each Arcana actually has a number associated with it):
Spoiler: Arcana and Characters
In post 49, Yume wrote:My new name is Meredith. I am a criminal, yet I am also a good girl. Therefore, I am both mafia and town. Make of that what you will.In post 74, Yume wrote:Did I mention I am both mafia and town? Also, I am Arcana.In post 107, Yume wrote:Why would I mention that? Because I am a miller and I was under the impression that millers should claim being millers as soon as possible.
I have no idea who Meredith is and am pretty sure that character doesn't exist. She also claimed Arcana, which is a game mechanic. ???In post 453, Yume wrote:I am 11111.
This leaves me with a few possibilities:
1) Yume doesn't have an Arcana and Ali is fucking with us. This would reduce us to 21 used Arcana, with The Fool thrown to the wayside. The only scenarios where this possibility makes sense to me as town is if Ali is including characters not associated with a specific Arcana and/or the Strength Arcana is shared by two players (this should be obvious to the player(s) with Caroline and/or Justine or Margaret).
2) Yume is Morgana (The Magician is considered to be Arcana 1). I don't think this is the case because Morgana is a mason with the alignment cop, so being a miller as well is pointless.
3) Yume is Goro Akechi (The Justice Arcana is considered to be Arcana 11). This is the traitorous Phantom Thief in the game. This makes sense to me as each of a) a Miller, b) groupscum, or c) traitor scum (I haven't seen anything to indicate there being a traitor scum, but some of you keep bringing it up, so why not). Possibly SK, but let's keep things simple.
4) Yume is Arcana-less and or The Fool. The former is scummy if every player is supposed to have an Arcana and scum decided to take away her fakeclaim to be used by The Holy Grail or Goro Akechi. If she is The Fool, then she is probably going to be immune to non-Dave vig shots since The Holy Grail is unkillable the first time The Phantom Thieves meet it in the game (kinda sorta why I don't want Mastina to vig it since I mostly think it's a waste, but I guess shooting it to see what happens could be informative).
Alchemist claimed not to be a Phantom Thief. Morgana is a Phantom Thief. Ergo, Alchemist != Morgana.In post 1087, Alchemist21 wrote:My role explicitly tells me I'm aligned with the Phantom Thieves despite not being a part of them, but I knew who Akira is.
I had the impression Alchemist was a better player than he's demonstrating though, so I have him as a slight scumlean.
Spoiler: Mulch Wagon Quotes
I think Mulch is town here. The Phantom Thief softclaim in response to the flashwagon, as well as the threat of outing Dave to confirm himself seems town to me. I also townread his frustration in relation to that wagon.
I have mixed feelings on Penguin Power. I have some issues with Penguin Power writing off Ann as town just because she doesn't think the first three Phantom Thieves could be scum. I think anyone can be used as a fakeclaim with the exception of Morgana/Dave (for what I hope are obvious reasons). I'm also slightly biased in townleaning her regarding her not jumping on the easy wagon that was Key replacing out.
Varsoon and Ellibereth ping me the most regarding this wagon. I don't think Ellibereth is really analyzing Mulch's play and his constant pushing without substance to back it up reeks of scum smelling blood in the water and trying to push it through. Although Varsoon did crumb Ryuji early, unlike the other players I suspect to be Phantom Thieves, he hasn't given any actual indication he knew Dave's identity. If a Phantom Thief was given as a fakeclaim, I think there's a strong possibility they would know Dave's identity was given to certain players, but not his actual identity. The way he threatened Mulch saying he wouldn't have much to defend himself with if he just outed the leader's identity looks like baiting for information (in that Varsoon could bait Mulch into outing Dave by making it seem Varsoon was taking away something that could easily point towards Mulch being town). I'm slightly scumreading Varsoon's further reactions in light of this as well as the fact that he voted/pressured MulchafterMulch indicated he was not only a Phantom Thief, but that he knew Dave's identity as well. I think that if Varsoon was town with this information, his first inclination would not have been to further pressure/risk Mulch divulging this information as well, and his annoyance at the end trying to set him up as a policy lynch seems feigned to me.
Fun fact:Ryuji didn't actually get Ann to join the Phantom Thieves. Ann followed them into the Metaverse and a rapid chain of events that included her awakening her Persona caused Ryuji/Morgana/main character to include her.
There were a bunch of players that took the opportunity to jump onto the 'Wow Mulch, so bad, would policy lynch you for such horrible play' train and would not be surprised if there was at least one scum in that group looking to blend in with the irritation/annoyance.
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Town
Dave
Very Town
Drixx
Mulch
Chesskid
Leonshade
Reck
Less Town But Still Probably Town
LUV
Mastina (move to above group if second head is Boonskiies)
Small Gap From Above Group
Creature
Very Slight Townlean
Not Chara
Penguin Power
Kise
Unsorted Due To Brain Being Unable To Process 60+ pages and 21 Player Slots
Everyone Else
You Can Do Better
Alchemist
Probably Just Me Sheeping The Sentiment Of The Louder Players
Smocaine
Chikorita
Likely Scum
Ellibereth
Varsoon
Yume (highly questionable)
HURT: Alchemist
HURT: Smocaine
HURT: Chikorita
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ellibereth
HURT WITH A BLADE: Varsoon
HURT WITH A BLADE: Yume
VOTE: Ellibereth-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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We would probably get 1 scum at most if we massclaimed Arcana.In post 1611, xRECKONERx wrote:so...if this was the case, massclaiming arcana would just break the game.
so i cant believe this is the case
On the flipside, we'd not only give scum a roadmap to who all the Phantom Thieves are, but who received each character as well.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I said a lot more than just about you though, so it doesn't make sense to disregard what I have to say just because you think I'm wrong about one read.In post 1644, Varsoon wrote:@Reckoner: So if you know that someone is literally wrong, why would you trust what they have to say otherwise?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I like this post and feel like I'm probably being a little hard on Alchemist.In post 1160, Alchemist21 wrote:
But at the same time heIn post 1156, Leonshade wrote:I'll be home in an hour. Once I get home, I'd like to see an explanation on why Mulch only has 4 votes on him after that shit he pulled. He threatened to, then claimed and outed a conftownie at the first sight of pressure. That's some scummy shit.didknow who the confTownie is. What are the chances that both
a) scum already knew anyway?
b) scum Mulch used this to get Towncred in a way that's also overly emotional and would obviously make people hate him?
If he's scum I just don't see what good the threat is of revealing the confTown. It was certainly anti-Town but I don't think it comes from scum.
In post 1165, Alchemist21 wrote:
This.In post 1163, RationalNumbers wrote:You guys realize that we got a VC after the supposed Gladiate and the votes didn't reset and no gladiate was announced, right?
~Drixx
I think RationalNumbers makes a good case for why they're Town. If there were a gladiate I'd vote Purple Nurple. As it is now though I'm not really sure about them, and I can't figure out if the fake Gladiate thing is actually scummy or not.
Although, what changed your stance on the fake gladiate here?In post 1391, Alchemist21 wrote:I can get behind that vote. Didn't care for the fake gladiate either.
VOTE: Purple Nurple-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I've been under the impression that most scumreads on my slot are based on my predecessor, which I have no control over. Even if they aren't, it's not like I would know since no one has indicated it as such.In post 1785, Purple Nurple wrote:@Brian: What are your thoughts on Eddie still thinking you're scum?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I'm very familiar with it. I've played through the ending, but I haven't completed some of the social link arcs.In post 1796, Purple Nurple wrote:
It is indeed based on your predecessor.In post 1792, Brian Skies wrote:
I've been under the impression that most scumreads on my slot are based on my predecessor, which I have no control over. Even if they aren't, it's not like I would know since no one has indicated it as such.In post 1785, Purple Nurple wrote:@Brian: What are your thoughts on Eddie still thinking you're scum?
Your flavour post was interesting. How familiar are you with flavour?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I've already explained most of this.In post 1799, Purple Nurple wrote:So based on the flavour, what do you think of the setup? Wrt things like what Penguin said about Ann being town, scum having arcanas, which characters might be scum, etc.
Penguin said she couldn't see any of the original Phantom Thieves being scum (whom I'm assuming to be Ann/Ryuji/Morgana/Akechi). I disagree and think anyone outside of Morgana/Akechi could be a fakeclaim since they've already been confirmed town to us.
Scum can have Arcanas associated with them. The Fool is represented by Igor/The Holy Grail in the game, while The Justice is represented by Goro Akechi (another villain, although his character is written more like that of a troubled/manipulated antihero that murders people for the sake of his father's approval or something). The Holy Grail impersonates Igor for most of the game, who is actually protown in the games. So either of them can be millers or red herrings, but I still think there's a strong likelihood for these characters to be scum. They both are also known for having a second life (in that The Holy Grail is invincible the first time you fight him and Akechi reveals his second Persona after you defeat him the first time). This is why I asked Reck what he thought about Yume's role.
I mostly just think there's a correlation between the number of Player Slots in this game and the number of Major Arcana, but was having major issues with Yume's initial Miller claim because it went against what I know of the flavor and how I think it ties in with this setup. Anything else is just speculation on my part and should be treated as such.-
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If we're going off of just flavor, then the only ones that would make sense as scum are The Fool and The Justice. Judgment kinda sorta, but that character is actually good-aligned.In post 1803, Purple Nurple wrote:Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?
Scum also have fakeclaims, so...-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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That's the list of characters I think are most likely in this game (in that I think that list contains all of this game's characters). If someone has a character that's not on that list, then we're going to have some problems regarding the Arcana.
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9 are your Phantom Thieves. 8 is the traitor Phantom Thief in the actual game.
Any of them can learn Akira's identity if you max out their social link. But only 5 and 20 learn it by default through the plot.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Brian Skies Survivor
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This guy is loved by the public actually, so a Loved modifier would totally be appropriate for him. I don't know if any of the other characters can have it though, so I'm not condemning it as scum (The Judgment might make sense as town having it for example).In post 1823, xRECKONERx wrote:Shido- corrupt politician who setup the false evidence that screwed the Protagonist/Akira in the first place; Akechi's father
It's also important to note that Ali could just as easily include some of the Personas as villains, so really anything can be a fakeclaim.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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@Luv:
Can you explain to me how this is a scumslip as if I've never played a game of Mafia before?In post 174, WhemeStar wrote:Can the mod lie during pregame or is that considered bastard-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Kind of, but metareading isn't my thing. I'm mostly sheeping my townreads.In post 1879, Smocaine wrote:Did you compare the iso's Brian?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Clearly must be because I'm a shining beacon of towniness.
This sounds more like you have a scumread on my slot, or just want a wagon on me. If you have reasons to want my slot dead, you're more than welcome to air your concerns. Although Key wasn't scum, and if all you have is rampant spamposting as the basis for your read, you're probably better off reassessing since from what I can tell, that's more of a personality thing as far as Key is concerned.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I believe it's more like we have a mod-confirmed strongman vigilante and someone else indicating they might have a vig shot, so we're going with Option B instead.In post 1917, Ramcius wrote:can you guys explain, why you trust Yume's lynchproof claim? Cause to me it sounded just as a joke answer to my joke about lynching her-
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I'm curious as to what your thoughts on my slot are and me doing the same thing.In post 1922, Not Chara wrote:i don't mind sheeping one's townreads, but if you don't go beyond that then all you're doing is making one of them a double-voter. i guess i just want to see more active participation, i'm not even sure if i'd call it a scumread. i'm interested in the meta Creature and Whemestar seem to have on you, though.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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No.In post 1931, Ramcius wrote:
meta reasons?In post 1930, Brian Skies wrote:I'm aware of how the role works.
Yume's iso is devoid of content outside of her roleclaim (which I'm not accepting at face value for reasons already explained) and softs. And I think that the things she has claimed (or softed) could be scum-indicative.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Flavor on its own isn't alignment indicative. However, what we do know about the Phantom Thieves is that they were told who Akira is. I don't think it makes sense for the Mod to do this and then give the same information to scum as well, even in a fakeclaim. It makes the whole 'Assassins in the Palace' aspect of trying to protect Dave pretty meaningless.In post 1990, Purple Nurple wrote:
Excuse me but what happened to flavour isn't AI?In post 1989, Brian Skies wrote:Yusuke is a Phantom Thief and LUV crumbed a Dave townread early on.
I'd appreciate it if Purple would stop posting or reset their reads, because nothing useful comes out of that slot.
.../sigh.
I was townreading LUV mostly because I thought he was indicating being a Phantom Thief, and he just confirmed that he was here. While I don't think flavor or claims make alignment, I do think the way a player uses said role can be alignment indicative, and I'm townreading LUV because I do think at least some Phantom Thieves (if given this information) would try to crumb this information, especially if they think it will help them find other likeminded townies and form a townblock (see RN).
I also don't think he's that scummy and don't remember there being a case on him (at least not one that I thought was convincing).
I find your claim moderately believable and do think there would be an aspect to Iwai's character PM that would indicate having a negative aspect to it. I also don't think Mastina is the type of person (if she truly hated this playerlist) to just go out and search for a hydra partner if she were scum here, especially if she didn't actually plan on playing this out. This is my opinion based on her feelings regarding F-16 asking her to hydra with her in Attack on Titan Mafia. I won't say it's something that's impossible for scum Mastina to do, I just think it's something that would be very unlike her and I might lose respect for her if this were the case here.In post 1991, Purple Nurple wrote:brian, why am i not scum if i'm so useless?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I also don't think your slot is scummy. I think some of the cases you have come from a townie place, but right now, I don't think your perspective of the game or your reads are in a good enough place for me to want to listen to anything you say. And it doesn't help that your aggressive 1v1 playstyle is a huge turnoff to follow.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I don't understand this assertion.
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Not a fan of this reaction, although I don't really think Chika and Smocaine's content are comparable.In post 2060, ChikoritasInAction wrote:
So why the fuck are you voting me for having the same involvement that you have?In post 2057, Smocaine wrote:
The implication was that you've done fuck all too, aside from pick your role.In post 2047, ChikoritasInAction wrote:that's not actively doing something and there is no evidence to support it, try again
I'm also not a fan of this reaction, but mostly since I don't understand what illicited such a strong reaction to that Mulch post.In post 1103, ChikoritasInAction wrote:
VOTE: MulchIn post 793, Mulch wrote:I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.
fuck off
Can you elaborate more on why you didn't like these posts from Ram?In post 1250, ChikoritasInAction wrote:i also don't really like 592, 595, 599
Can you also elaborate on what about Ram's push on Creature you disliked (there seems to be some context missing that I would need to make assumptions for in order to fill the gap, but I'd like to hear it based on your own words first)?
Quality Posting.In post 502, ChikoritasInAction wrote:
I see ZERO benefit to this... you say that Akira is our most useful pr but you previously say that you know who Akira is which means you're hunting for prs, and the fact that you want people to say their Akira suspect furthers my pointIn post 468, Varsoon wrote:Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.
I agree with Chika's points regarding 468, and can kinda see where 534 is coming from (although it's kinda meh).In post 577, ChikoritasInAction wrote:Also, I really feel uneasy about varsoon. I pointed out flaws in his 468 earlier, but his 534 is really irking me too. He tells Rational to drop the Mastina case because they must townread that slot, but delves no deeper than "drop it". Imho, providing reads and reasons in this state of the game is crucial because there's not much to work with since it's so early (that points like half-moot because we have 18 pages of fucking pre-game, but I still think that providing reads etc. is important here and varsoon is trying to deny their read for no other reason (that I could see) aside from him townreading the slot
Overall, while I don't agree with some of Chika's opinions, I'm not getting a scum vibe from this slot.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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Also, there is a clear distinction that was made in this post that points toward Mulch most likely being town here. You and Varsoon ignoring that to push 'Mulch town couldn't possibly react this way' despite knowing Akira's identity is mind-boggling, and I don't see any reason why we should lynch a claimed Rolecop when scum can potentially kill that for us.In post 468, Varsoon wrote:Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is,but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.
Varsoon's subsequent reactionsIn post 787, Varsoon wrote:Actually, Mulch, what defense would you have if I outed Akira first?In post 788, Varsoon wrote:The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: MulchIn post 825, Varsoon wrote:I'm going to still vote you and still lynch you and file a formal complaint if you flip town because you'd ruin a game over wagon-frustration.
Have me solidly lean scum on Varsoon as his reactions betray the original intentions he laid out in 468.In post 846, Varsoon wrote:You could actually play mafia instead of gamethrow when under the pressure of four votes in a large game.
Get off your self-important high horse. Take a breath. Realize this is a game for everyone to play, that the mod put a ton of effort into, and that selfishly throwing the integrity of that out of the window is against the spirit of the game and, arguably, against site rules.
If you're scum, though, die forever.
And I fail to see how Varsoon could possibly think this would have made sense in any scenario, and looks like him looking for more excuses to push the Mulch wagon.In post 854, Varsoon wrote:Also, if you had an inkling of what you were doing, you would've said RationalNumbers is Akira.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I don't know anything about Mulch, but I do believe there will be a distinct difference in emotion if Mulch does have a history of getting run up as town. And I do think he would be more frustrated if he got a town PR, had a way to potentially townclear himself (although that's arguable, it's not the point), and people wanted to lynch him anyway.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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In post 773, Ellibereth wrote:In post 763, Mulch wrote:Hardclaim phantom thief .These are NOT town reactions.
^Two people that saw the Mulch warning posts and went for it anyway.In post 788, Varsoon wrote:The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: Mulch-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I think some people would have gone for it anyway.In post 2239, ChikoritasInAction wrote:
do you think people should have refrained from pushing mulch because of this?In post 2234, Brian Skies wrote:Not to mention, Mulch gave warning posts that it wasn't a good idea to push his direction, and people pushed him anyway.
But the question is Mulch's intentions and the other player's intentions as it happened.
Mulch-town wouldn't want to be pushed as any scenario, and giving an indication (especially if he's an investigative) for other people to look elsewhere as a wagon was building on him is probably the thing that has his best interests in mind.
On the flipside, what are the intentions of the people who see him indicating he was a PR and that he knew Akira's identity. Varsoon's 468 was already not very good, and here it looks like him poking the bear, and I don't think a town-Varsoon would jump so hastily on such a wagon. To me, Varsoon who DOES know Akira's identity wouldn't automatically be like 'oh yeah?, well prove it' or some sort of similar reaction. Not to mention he went from 'we can confirm a town by having them confirm Akira's identity' -> 'how dare you be selfish and claim Akira's role' and 'why not just lie about it?', which is a progression that doesn't make sense to me, especially since he helped instigate Mulch outing Akira's identity.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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I have read the whole context. I think you're incredibly dumb or scummy, and your involvement with the Mulch wagon has you solidly in my scumpile.In post 2244, Varsoon wrote:But I guess you don't actually read ISOs or the game or whatever so when you see something you disagree with, you just do that instead of reading the whole context.
I still think what Mulch did was fucking stupid, but if you followed my posts since then, you'd know I'm townreading him regardless at this point.
Same for Ellibereth, who fails to do anything except continue to push the bad Mulch wagon.-
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I bet it would have.In post 2253, Ellibereth wrote:Yume you should have executed mulch would have made my life so much easier -.- tt.
Assuming Mulch is completely off the table, who would you want to lynch?-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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FWIW, I am townreading this.In post 2249, Varsoon wrote:At that point, I thought that he was scum gambiting, not literally game-throwing town.
My fucking bad.-
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I don't think people do this on a regular basis, and I will never apologize for pushing my own convictions.In post 2262, Varsoon wrote:I'll flip town, and if you're town (as I think you are), then I hope you'll apologize over being so wrong, so defiantly.
You being so appalled that I'm scumreading you, though, is certainly something.-
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In post 1140, Kise wrote:Here's where I'm at
The Phantoms are dave, Varsoon, Mulch, Creature and silent unknowns (there's like 8-9 in the game right?)
Alc is shacking with dave
I feel like LUV is being low effort because he has an important/PT role and doesn't need to tryhard, but he's still shady to me
Anyone I haven't mentioned here or in 1129 is simply not scummy or towny enough to get a remark
--RN is my only PURE townread based on play-
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I don't really think Shido fits with an executioner ability (I can make a leap to justify it, but it would really be stretching it). I honestly don't know much about the reaper since I never ran into it in the game. I guess the reaper could make some sense, but mostly I'd just like to see more from Yume than just playing from her role (or potential fakeclaim).In post 2352, Purple Nurple wrote:http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/The_Reaper
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Masayoshi_Shido
after i had that meta discussion with brian and whoever i decided to dig further in because i have been in bed a lot and very bored. these are the only two characters besides joker that fit the claimed role yume gave (executioner part). both are very clearly conspiracy aligned. the former seems more likely to me, but doesn't really matter which. the miller part is even more problematic; claiming miller in pregame doesn't actually mean anything, because all scum roles would be the hypothetical equivalent millers except for a godfather. miller doesn't really fit flavour wise. now, pregame i gave yume a bit of towncred for the miller claim but i've been thinking about this a long time... a chronic lurker is a prime target for a cop - might as well claim miller and preplan, especially since yume as math put it is not likely to endgame as scum anyways. in my last game with yume, we HEAVY coached her and she did do well, almost winning late game, but we had a scum team who was very interactive. spring fever if you want to go find it in large theme archive, relatively recent. what i remember from that game (and i played very little of it) is yume being very snappy and particularly relating to the lines like "do so at your own risk" "its a bad idea" "be prepared for consequences". the tone/meta part of my read does not hold much weight, but as i've said yume typically lurks more as scum than town and gets replaced more as scum than town. another point in the favour of scum yume: the role. that is the PERFECT role to give to scum!yume. it is one that is strong early game and becomes useless as the game goes on (12 to lynch -> 11 to lynch -> etc, but 6 matters far less). this fits with her claiming miller, since she was never gonna be alive endgame anyways, AND means scum has an excuse to not use it when it would be pro town - after all, yume is a notoriously low-activity player usually, nothing would be awry if yume wasn't around to execute someone over a no lynch or the like. everything about yume being scum is just fitting into place for me, and let's not forget that meredith and "i am both town and mafia" are two things that don't exist.
everything about yume fits as scum for me, so call me confbiased if you want but risk vs reward wise we lynch my strongest scumread and at worst we mislynch a lurker miller. i reallllly want a yume lynch, would settle for kise if enough people aren't willing to play ball, and do not want smocaine but don't townread him enough to blow up and attack each individual voter.
As far as her play goes, would her townplay be as barren for content as she's been demonstrating thus far? That, along with the early confusion I had with her roleclaim, makes me lean scum on her.-
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Brian Skies Survivor
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