Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

[Brian Skies]

Not a miller.

[Brian Skies]

My new name is Meredith. I am a criminal, yet I am also a good girl. Therefore, I am both mafia and town. Make of that what you will.

Did I mention I am both mafia and town? Also, I am Arcana.

Why would I mention that? Because I am a miller and I was under the impression that millers should claim being millers as soon as possible.

Is there more to your claim that you're willing to divulge? There are some things about your claim that go directly against what I know of the game and my thoughts on the setup mechanics.

[Brian Skies]

ftr, if i'm a vig or if i'm not and if we have a vig, yume the "town miller" dies tonight. them not posting for this long while being online doesn't lock her as scum but it is a tell, + they're going to be a low act slot that will be hard to sort all game + they are an already arguably-pl worthy role.

any objections?

I'd rather lynch it tbh.

[Brian Skies]

Mulch, if you visit scum, do you get their actual role or their fakeclaim?

[Brian Skies]

Obligatory mechanics discussion since most of you don't have a clue and I'm getting a headache reading through some of your posts.

There are 22 player slots in this game. There are also 22 Major Arcana, each representing a social link for the main character to interact with and earn more abilities (Persona is at its heart a dating sim after all). Arcana aren't limited to Phantom Thieves and anyone whose relationship can provide benefits to the main character is represented by an Arcana (with the exception of I think The World, which is usually given to the main character at or near the endgame). The Arcana are based on The Fool's Journey and the journey the player takes (starting with The Fool and ending at The World) provides the basis for the plot for at least Persona 3, Persona 4, and Persona 5.

It is important to note that in the game, the main character starts with The Fool Arcana. However, here he starts with The World (I'm presuming this is because this is the only Arcana not associated with a social link and is only represented by the main character in the game). The Fool is actually a social link given to the main character by the main bad guy in the game, also known as The Holy Grail, and I'm assuming there is a strong likelihood that Arcana is scum here.

Playing The Hero (Collector/Enabled Modified Alignment Cop): During the night, you may target someone. If you are enabled, you will visit them twice, well because you are peforming two actions on them. The first action you preform you will collect their Arcana. You will collect Arcana from the Conspiracy's fake claims. The second action you will preform you will Alignment Cop them. You will either get "Conspiracy" or "Not Conspiracy." If you get a "Conspiracy" you will send them a Calling Card.

From the Public Role PM, we can deduce that every player has an Arcana (this is not limited to just Phantom Thieves). Even if the player is scum, Dave will just collect the Arcana associated with the player's fakeclaim.

It is also important to note that if each player slot is associated with an Arcana that it is unlikely for scum of one Arcana (if they have one; presumably The Holy Grail and/or Goro Akechi) to have a fakeclaim associated with another Arcana.

Fakeclaims were supposedly picked by scum but I think there is probably at least one case where a fakeclaim was predetermined. If this is not the case, then any player without an Arcana is an immediate red flag.

This is mostly determinant on the roles and fakeclaims falling within the following list (each Arcana actually has a number associated with it):

Spoiler: Arcana and Characters

0 The Fool - Igor/The Holy Grail
1 Magician - Morgana
2 Priestess - Makoto Niijima
3 Empress - Haru Okumura
4 Emperor - Yusuke Kitagawa
5 Hierophant - Soijiro Sakura
6 Lovers - Ann Takamaki
7 Chariot - Ryuji Sakamoto
8 Justice - Goro Akechi
9 Hermit - Futaba Sakura
10 Fortune - Chihaya Mifune
11 Strength - Caroline & Justine (Margaret)
12 Hanged Man - Munehisa Iwai
13 Death - Tae Takemi
14 Temperence - Sadayo Kawakami
15 Devil - Ichiko Ohya
16 Tower - Shinya Oda
17 Star - Hifumi Togo
18 Moon - Yuuki Mishima
19 Sun - Toranosuke Yoshida
20 Judgment - Sae Niijima
21 The World - Plot Element Only

My new name is Meredith. I am a criminal, yet I am also a good girl. Therefore, I am both mafia and town. Make of that what you will.

Did I mention I am both mafia and town? Also, I am Arcana.

Why would I mention that? Because I am a miller and I was under the impression that millers should claim being millers as soon as possible.

I am 11111.

I have no idea who Meredith is and am pretty sure that character doesn't exist. She also claimed Arcana, which is a game mechanic. ???

This leaves me with a few possibilities:
1) Yume doesn't have an Arcana and Ali is fucking with us. This would reduce us to 21 used Arcana, with The Fool thrown to the wayside. The only scenarios where this possibility makes sense to me as town is if Ali is including characters not associated with a specific Arcana and/or the Strength Arcana is shared by two players (this should be obvious to the player(s) with Caroline and/or Justine or Margaret).
2) Yume is Morgana (The Magician is considered to be Arcana 1). I don't think this is the case because Morgana is a mason with the alignment cop, so being a miller as well is pointless.
3) Yume is Goro Akechi (The Justice Arcana is considered to be Arcana 11). This is the traitorous Phantom Thief in the game. This makes sense to me as each of a) a Miller, b) groupscum, or c) traitor scum (I haven't seen anything to indicate there being a traitor scum, but some of you keep bringing it up, so why not). Possibly SK, but let's keep things simple.
4) Yume is Arcana-less and or The Fool. The former is scummy if every player is supposed to have an Arcana and scum decided to take away her fakeclaim to be used by The Holy Grail or Goro Akechi. If she is The Fool, then she is probably going to be immune to non-Dave vig shots since The Holy Grail is unkillable the first time The Phantom Thieves meet it in the game (kinda sorta why I don't want Mastina to vig it since I mostly think it's a waste, but I guess shooting it to see what happens could be informative).

My role explicitly tells me I'm aligned with the Phantom Thieves despite not being a part of them, but I knew who Akira is.

Alchemist claimed not to be a Phantom Thief. Morgana is a Phantom Thief. Ergo, Alchemist != Morgana.

I had the impression Alchemist was a better player than he's demonstrating though, so I have him as a slight scumlean.

Spoiler: Mulch Wagon Quotes

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mulch

Vote: Mulch

VOTE: Mulch

VOTE: Mulch

Hardclaim phantom thief .

(expired on 2017-10-11 21:13:03) to unvote me or I out who our leader is

Hardclaim phantom thief .

(expired on 2017-10-11 21:13:03) to unvote me or I out who our leader is

These are NOT town reactions.

Actually, Mulch, what defense would you have if I outed Akira first?

The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: Mulch

I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

I'm going to still vote you and still lynch you and file a formal complaint if you flip town because you'd ruin a game over wagon-frustration.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

scum get fakeclaims dude

Ann is not going to be a fake claim. At all.

I don't think any role can be excluded from being a fakeclaim besides Akira.

I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the original PTs would be a fake claim given the opening game circumstances and Ali relying on flavor being alignment indicative. Anyone else, sure, but not the first three.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

scum get fakeclaims dude

Ann is not going to be a fake claim. At all.

Dude the point of fakeclaims is for them to be realistic.
Frodo can be a fucking fakeclaim in lotr mafia.

flavor is alignment indicative AND SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIM

means the ACTUAL ROLES are alignment indicative
and for that to work the scum's fakeclaims have to be a bunch of fucking good guys.

You could actually play mafia instead of gamethrow when under the pressure of four votes in a large game.
Get off your self-important high horse. Take a breath. Realize this is a game for everyone to play, that the mod put a ton of effort into, and that selfishly throwing the integrity of that out of the window is against the spirit of the game and, arguably, against site rules.

If you're scum, though, die forever.

Penguin, scum could literally have any flavor.
By design, it's important that scum have important flavor characters as their fake claims. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping all of the Phantom thieves from just flavor claiming and being confirmed as town and winning the game.

Also, if you had an inkling of what you were doing, you would've said RationalNumbers is Akira.

I think Mulch is town here. The Phantom Thief softclaim in response to the flashwagon, as well as the threat of outing Dave to confirm himself seems town to me. I also townread his frustration in relation to that wagon.

I have mixed feelings on Penguin Power. I have some issues with Penguin Power writing off Ann as town just because she doesn't think the first three Phantom Thieves could be scum. I think anyone can be used as a fakeclaim with the exception of Morgana/Dave (for what I hope are obvious reasons). I'm also slightly biased in townleaning her regarding her not jumping on the easy wagon that was Key replacing out.

Varsoon and Ellibereth ping me the most regarding this wagon. I don't think Ellibereth is really analyzing Mulch's play and his constant pushing without substance to back it up reeks of scum smelling blood in the water and trying to push it through. Although Varsoon did crumb Ryuji early, unlike the other players I suspect to be Phantom Thieves, he hasn't given any actual indication he knew Dave's identity. If a Phantom Thief was given as a fakeclaim, I think there's a strong possibility they would know Dave's identity was given to certain players, but not his actual identity. The way he threatened Mulch saying he wouldn't have much to defend himself with if he just outed the leader's identity looks like baiting for information (in that Varsoon could bait Mulch into outing Dave by making it seem Varsoon was taking away something that could easily point towards Mulch being town). I'm slightly scumreading Varsoon's further reactions in light of this as well as the fact that he voted/pressured Mulch

after

Mulch indicated he was not only a Phantom Thief, but that he knew Dave's identity as well. I think that if Varsoon was town with this information, his first inclination would not have been to further pressure/risk Mulch divulging this information as well, and his annoyance at the end trying to set him up as a policy lynch seems feigned to me.

Fun fact:

Ryuji didn't actually get Ann to join the Phantom Thieves. Ann followed them into the Metaverse and a rapid chain of events that included her awakening her Persona caused Ryuji/Morgana/main character to include her.

There were a bunch of players that took the opportunity to jump onto the 'Wow Mulch, so bad, would policy lynch you for such horrible play' train and would not be surprised if there was at least one scum in that group looking to blend in with the irritation/annoyance.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Town
Dave

Very Town
Drixx
Mulch
Chesskid
Leonshade
Reck

Less Town But Still Probably Town
LUV
Mastina (move to above group if second head is Boonskiies)

Small Gap From Above Group
Creature

Very Slight Townlean
Not Chara
Penguin Power
Kise

Unsorted Due To Brain Being Unable To Process 60+ pages and 21 Player Slots
Everyone Else

You Can Do Better
Alchemist

Probably Just Me Sheeping The Sentiment Of The Louder Players
Smocaine
Chikorita

Likely Scum
Ellibereth
Varsoon
Yume (highly questionable)


HURT: Alchemist
HURT: Smocaine
HURT: Chikorita
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ellibereth
HURT WITH A BLADE: Varsoon
HURT WITH A BLADE: Yume

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Brian Skies]

Maybe later. I'm not even voting you right now.

[Brian Skies]

?

[Brian Skies]

Whemestar is probably town.

[Brian Skies]

so...if this was the case, massclaiming arcana would just break the game.

so i cant believe this is the case

We would probably get 1 scum at most if we massclaimed Arcana.

On the flipside, we'd not only give scum a roadmap to who all the Phantom Thieves are, but who received each character as well.

[Brian Skies]

Wrong thread.

[Brian Skies]

@Reckoner: So if you know that someone is literally wrong, why would you trust what they have to say otherwise?

I said a lot more than just about you though, so it doesn't make sense to disregard what I have to say just because you think I'm wrong about one read.

[Brian Skies]

Wheme, do you have any experience with Dan replacing out as scum?

[Brian Skies]

I'll be home in an hour. Once I get home, I'd like to see an explanation on why Mulch only has 4 votes on him after that shit he pulled. He threatened to, then claimed and outed a conftownie at the first sight of pressure. That's some scummy shit.

But at the same time he

did

know who the confTownie is. What are the chances that both

a) scum already knew anyway?

b) scum Mulch used this to get Towncred in a way that's also overly emotional and would obviously make people hate him?

If he's scum I just don't see what good the threat is of revealing the confTown. It was certainly anti-Town but I don't think it comes from scum.

I like this post and feel like I'm probably being a little hard on Alchemist.

You guys realize that we got a VC after the supposed Gladiate and the votes didn't reset and no gladiate was announced, right?

~Drixx

This.

I think RationalNumbers makes a good case for why they're Town. If there were a gladiate I'd vote Purple Nurple. As it is now though I'm not really sure about them, and I can't figure out if the fake Gladiate thing is actually scummy or not.

I can get behind that vote. Didn't care for the fake gladiate either.

VOTE: Purple Nurple

Although, what changed your stance on the fake gladiate here?

[Brian Skies]

@Reck:

What are your thoughts on Yume claiming 1-Shot Lynchproof?

[Brian Skies]

That's not what I asked. I wanted to know what changed for you to go to 'I didn't care for it', which sounds distinctly more negative than 'I don't know how to feel about this'.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian

: What are your thoughts on Eddie still thinking you're scum?

I've been under the impression that most scumreads on my slot are based on my predecessor, which I have no control over. Even if they aren't, it's not like I would know since no one has indicated it as such.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian

: What are your thoughts on Eddie still thinking you're scum?

I've been under the impression that most scumreads on my slot are based on my predecessor, which I have no control over. Even if they aren't, it's not like I would know since no one has indicated it as such.

It is indeed based on your predecessor.

Your flavour post was interesting. How familiar are you with flavour?

I'm very familiar with it. I've played through the ending, but I haven't completed some of the social link arcs.

[Brian Skies]

So based on the flavour, what do you think of the setup? Wrt things like what Penguin said about Ann being town, scum having arcanas, which characters might be scum, etc.

I've already explained most of this.

Penguin said she couldn't see any of the original Phantom Thieves being scum (whom I'm assuming to be Ann/Ryuji/Morgana/Akechi). I disagree and think anyone outside of Morgana/Akechi could be a fakeclaim since they've already been confirmed town to us.

Scum can have Arcanas associated with them. The Fool is represented by Igor/The Holy Grail in the game, while The Justice is represented by Goro Akechi (another villain, although his character is written more like that of a troubled/manipulated antihero that murders people for the sake of his father's approval or something). The Holy Grail impersonates Igor for most of the game, who is actually protown in the games. So either of them can be millers or red herrings, but I still think there's a strong likelihood for these characters to be scum. They both are also known for having a second life (in that The Holy Grail is invincible the first time you fight him and Akechi reveals his second Persona after you defeat him the first time). This is why I asked Reck what he thought about Yume's role.

I mostly just think there's a correlation between the number of Player Slots in this game and the number of Major Arcana, but was having major issues with Yume's initial Miller claim because it went against what I know of the flavor and how I think it ties in with this setup. Anything else is just speculation on my part and should be treated as such.

[Brian Skies]

Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?

If we're going off of just flavor, then the only ones that would make sense as scum are The Fool and The Justice. Judgment kinda sorta, but that character is actually good-aligned.

Scum also have fakeclaims, so...

[Brian Skies]

You could also make a case for The Moon just based on flavor, but also another character that is actually good-aligned.

[Brian Skies]

Me. But I also don't think we can break it with flavor.

[Brian Skies]

That's the list of characters I think are most likely in this game (in that I think that list contains all of this game's characters). If someone has a character that's not on that list, then we're going to have some problems regarding the Arcana.

1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9 are your Phantom Thieves. 8 is the traitor Phantom Thief in the actual game.

Any of them can learn Akira's identity if you max out their social link. But only 5 and 20 learn it by default through the plot.

[Brian Skies]

Actually, 0 technically knows Akira's identity through the plot as well.

[Brian Skies]

11 would also know his identity.

Strangely, I misassociated Yume's crumb with Justice. Strength is actually Number 11.

[Brian Skies]

18 as well, although he mostly just speculates it and it isn't confirmed to him unless you max out his social link.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, flavor speculation is dumb and we should be able to find scum without it.

[Brian Skies]

Shido- corrupt politician who setup the false evidence that screwed the Protagonist/Akira in the first place; Akechi's father

This guy is loved by the public actually, so a Loved modifier would totally be appropriate for him. I don't know if any of the other characters can have it though, so I'm not condemning it as scum (The Judgment might make sense as town having it for example).

It's also important to note that Ali could just as easily include some of the Personas as villains, so really anything can be a fakeclaim.

[Brian Skies]

@Luv:

Can the mod lie during pregame or is that considered bastard

Can you explain to me how this is a scumslip as if I've never played a game of Mafia before?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Smocaine

[Brian Skies]

Did you compare the iso's Brian?

Kind of, but metareading isn't my thing. I'm mostly sheeping my townreads.

[Brian Skies]

Clearly must be because I'm a shining beacon of towniness.

This sounds more like you have a scumread on my slot, or just want a wagon on me. If you have reasons to want my slot dead, you're more than welcome to air your concerns. Although Key wasn't scum, and if all you have is rampant spamposting as the basis for your read, you're probably better off reassessing since from what I can tell, that's more of a personality thing as far as Key is concerned.

[Brian Skies]

can you guys explain, why you trust Yume's lynchproof claim? Cause to me it sounded just as a joke answer to my joke about lynching her

I believe it's more like we have a mod-confirmed strongman vigilante and someone else indicating they might have a vig shot, so we're going with Option B instead.

[Brian Skies]

i don't mind sheeping one's townreads, but if you don't go beyond that then all you're doing is making one of them a double-voter. i guess i just want to see more active participation, i'm not even sure if i'd call it a scumread. i'm interested in the meta Creature and Whemestar seem to have on you, though.

I'm curious as to what your thoughts on my slot are and me doing the same thing.

[Brian Skies]

I'm aware of how the role works.

Yume's iso is devoid of content outside of her roleclaim (which I'm not accepting at face value for reasons already explained) and softs. And I think that the things she has claimed (or softed) could be scum-indicative.

[Brian Skies]

I'm aware of how the role works.

Yume's iso is devoid of content outside of her roleclaim (which I'm not accepting at face value for reasons already explained) and softs. And I think that the things she has claimed (or softed) could be scum-indicative.

meta reasons?

No.

[Brian Skies]

Yusuke is a Phantom Thief and LUV crumbed a Dave townread early on.

I'd appreciate it if Purple would stop posting or reset their reads, because nothing useful comes out of that slot.

[Brian Skies]

Yusuke is a Phantom Thief and LUV crumbed a Dave townread early on.

I'd appreciate it if Purple would stop posting or reset their reads, because nothing useful comes out of that slot.

Excuse me but what happened to flavour isn't AI?

.../sigh.

Flavor on its own isn't alignment indicative. However, what we do know about the Phantom Thieves is that they were told who Akira is. I don't think it makes sense for the Mod to do this and then give the same information to scum as well, even in a fakeclaim. It makes the whole 'Assassins in the Palace' aspect of trying to protect Dave pretty meaningless.

I was townreading LUV mostly because I thought he was indicating being a Phantom Thief, and he just confirmed that he was here. While I don't think flavor or claims make alignment, I do think the way a player uses said role can be alignment indicative, and I'm townreading LUV because I do think at least some Phantom Thieves (if given this information) would try to crumb this information, especially if they think it will help them find other likeminded townies and form a townblock (see RN).

I also don't think he's that scummy and don't remember there being a case on him (at least not one that I thought was convincing).

brian, why am i not scum if i'm so useless?

I find your claim moderately believable and do think there would be an aspect to Iwai's character PM that would indicate having a negative aspect to it. I also don't think Mastina is the type of person (if she truly hated this playerlist) to just go out and search for a hydra partner if she were scum here, especially if she didn't actually plan on playing this out. This is my opinion based on her feelings regarding F-16 asking her to hydra with her in Attack on Titan Mafia. I won't say it's something that's impossible for scum Mastina to do, I just think it's something that would be very unlike her and I might lose respect for her if this were the case here.

[Brian Skies]

I also don't think your slot is scummy. I think some of the cases you have come from a townie place, but right now, I don't think your perspective of the game or your reads are in a good enough place for me to want to listen to anything you say. And it doesn't help that your aggressive 1v1 playstyle is a huge turnoff to follow.

[Brian Skies]

I also have the same opinion in 1993 regarding the RN slot.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: kise

if i believe math is town this is the correct vote

I don't understand this assertion.

[Brian Skies]

I also don't get how Yume's role is a miller and would still support an Ellibereth wagon.

I don't particularly care if the Chikorita's wagon goes through or not but won't support it considering that's the wagon Varsoon really wants.

[Brian Skies]

that's not actively doing something and there is no evidence to support it, try again

The implication was that you've done fuck all too, aside from pick your role.

So why the fuck are you voting me for having the same involvement that you have?

Not a fan of this reaction, although I don't really think Chika and Smocaine's content are comparable.

I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.

VOTE: Mulch
fuck off

I'm also not a fan of this reaction, but mostly since I don't understand what illicited such a strong reaction to that Mulch post.

i also don't really like 592, 595, 599

Can you elaborate more on why you didn't like these posts from Ram?

Can you also elaborate on what about Ram's push on Creature you disliked (there seems to be some context missing that I would need to make assumptions for in order to fill the gap, but I'd like to hear it based on your own words first)?

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

I see ZERO benefit to this... you say that Akira is our most useful pr but you previously say that you know who Akira is which means you're hunting for prs, and the fact that you want people to say their Akira suspect furthers my point

Quality Posting.

Also, I really feel uneasy about varsoon. I pointed out flaws in his 468 earlier, but his 534 is really irking me too. He tells Rational to drop the Mastina case because they must townread that slot, but delves no deeper than "drop it". Imho, providing reads and reasons in this state of the game is crucial because there's not much to work with since it's so early (that points like half-moot because we have 18 pages of fucking pre-game, but I still think that providing reads etc. is important here and varsoon is trying to deny their read for no other reason (that I could see) aside from him townreading the slot

I agree with Chika's points regarding 468, and can kinda see where 534 is coming from (although it's kinda meh).

Overall, while I don't agree with some of Chika's opinions, I'm not getting a scum vibe from this slot.

[Brian Skies]

I still think Mulch is town.

[Brian Skies]

I honestly haven't even looked at the isos. But I don't think it's going to be worth comparing three games where he may have been run up as a VT as opposed to a game where he was being run up as a PR.

[Brian Skies]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is,

but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb)

, we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

Also, there is a clear distinction that was made in this post that points toward Mulch most likely being town here. You and Varsoon ignoring that to push 'Mulch town couldn't possibly react this way' despite knowing Akira's identity is mind-boggling, and I don't see any reason why we should lynch a claimed Rolecop when scum can potentially kill that for us.

Varsoon's subsequent reactions

Actually, Mulch, what defense would you have if I outed Akira first?

The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: Mulch

I'm going to still vote you and still lynch you and file a formal complaint if you flip town because you'd ruin a game over wagon-frustration.

You could actually play mafia instead of gamethrow when under the pressure of four votes in a large game.
Get off your self-important high horse. Take a breath. Realize this is a game for everyone to play, that the mod put a ton of effort into, and that selfishly throwing the integrity of that out of the window is against the spirit of the game and, arguably, against site rules.

If you're scum, though, die forever.

Have me solidly lean scum on Varsoon as his reactions betray the original intentions he laid out in 468.

Also, if you had an inkling of what you were doing, you would've said RationalNumbers is Akira.

And I fail to see how Varsoon could possibly think this would have made sense in any scenario, and looks like him looking for more excuses to push the Mulch wagon.

[Brian Skies]

I don't know anything about Mulch, but I do believe there will be a distinct difference in emotion if Mulch does have a history of getting run up as town. And I do think he would be more frustrated if he got a town PR, had a way to potentially townclear himself (although that's arguable, it's not the point), and people wanted to lynch him anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Not to mention, Mulch gave warning posts that it wasn't a good idea to push his direction, and people pushed him anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Hardclaim phantom thief .

(expired on 2017-10-11 21:13:03) to unvote me or I out who our leader is

These are NOT town reactions.

The fact you are using 'Our Leader' and a phrase like 'Hard Claim Phantom Thief' betray you.
VOTE: Mulch

^Two people that saw the Mulch warning posts and went for it anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Not to mention, Mulch gave warning posts that it wasn't a good idea to push his direction, and people pushed him anyway.

do you think people should have refrained from pushing mulch because of this?

I think some people would have gone for it anyway.

But the question is Mulch's intentions and the other player's intentions as it happened.

Mulch-town wouldn't want to be pushed as any scenario, and giving an indication (especially if he's an investigative) for other people to look elsewhere as a wagon was building on him is probably the thing that has his best interests in mind.

On the flipside, what are the intentions of the people who see him indicating he was a PR and that he knew Akira's identity. Varsoon's 468 was already not very good, and here it looks like him poking the bear, and I don't think a town-Varsoon would jump so hastily on such a wagon. To me, Varsoon who DOES know Akira's identity wouldn't automatically be like 'oh yeah?, well prove it' or some sort of similar reaction. Not to mention he went from 'we can confirm a town by having them confirm Akira's identity' -> 'how dare you be selfish and claim Akira's role' and 'why not just lie about it?', which is a progression that doesn't make sense to me, especially since he helped instigate Mulch outing Akira's identity.

[Brian Skies]

But I guess you don't actually read ISOs or the game or whatever so when you see something you disagree with, you just do that instead of reading the whole context.
I still think what Mulch did was fucking stupid, but if you followed my posts since then, you'd know I'm townreading him regardless at this point.

I have read the whole context. I think you're incredibly dumb or scummy, and your involvement with the Mulch wagon has you solidly in my scumpile.

Same for Ellibereth, who fails to do anything except continue to push the bad Mulch wagon.

[Brian Skies]

Sure. Mistakes happen.

What're your thoughts on Ellibereth here?

[Brian Skies]

Yume you should have executed mulch would have made my life so much easier -.- tt.

I bet it would have.

Assuming Mulch is completely off the table, who would you want to lynch?

[Brian Skies]

Okay, sell me on that.

[Brian Skies]

At that point, I thought that he was scum gambiting, not literally game-throwing town.
My fucking bad.

FWIW, I am townreading this.

[Brian Skies]

I'll flip town, and if you're town (as I think you are), then I hope you'll apologize over being so wrong, so defiantly.

I don't think people do this on a regular basis, and I will never apologize for pushing my own convictions.

You being so appalled that I'm scumreading you, though, is certainly something.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Yume

[Brian Skies]

If someone not named Alc could explain their Kise scumread, that would be great.

[Brian Skies]

Here's where I'm at

The Phantoms are dave, Varsoon, Mulch, Creature and silent unknowns (there's like 8-9 in the game right?)

Alc is shacking with dave

I feel like LUV is being low effort because he has an important/PT role and doesn't need to tryhard, but he's still shady to me

Anyone I haven't mentioned here or in 1129 is simply not scummy or towny enough to get a remark
--RN is my only PURE townread based on play

[Brian Skies]

I'm actually not confident in my ability to read Kise. Some things look town to me. I'll try looking at him again tomorrow when my brain isn't as scattered.

[Brian Skies]

http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/The_Reaper
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Masayoshi_Shido

after i had that meta discussion with brian and whoever i decided to dig further in because i have been in bed a lot and very bored. these are the only two characters besides joker that fit the claimed role yume gave (executioner part). both are very clearly conspiracy aligned. the former seems more likely to me, but doesn't really matter which. the miller part is even more problematic; claiming miller in pregame doesn't actually mean anything, because all scum roles would be the hypothetical equivalent millers except for a godfather. miller doesn't really fit flavour wise. now, pregame i gave yume a bit of towncred for the miller claim but i've been thinking about this a long time... a chronic lurker is a prime target for a cop - might as well claim miller and preplan, especially since yume as math put it is not likely to endgame as scum anyways. in my last game with yume, we HEAVY coached her and she did do well, almost winning late game, but we had a scum team who was very interactive. spring fever if you want to go find it in large theme archive, relatively recent. what i remember from that game (and i played very little of it) is yume being very snappy and particularly relating to the lines like "do so at your own risk" "its a bad idea" "be prepared for consequences". the tone/meta part of my read does not hold much weight, but as i've said yume typically lurks more as scum than town and gets replaced more as scum than town. another point in the favour of scum yume: the role. that is the PERFECT role to give to scum!yume. it is one that is strong early game and becomes useless as the game goes on (12 to lynch -> 11 to lynch -> etc, but 6 matters far less). this fits with her claiming miller, since she was never gonna be alive endgame anyways, AND means scum has an excuse to not use it when it would be pro town - after all, yume is a notoriously low-activity player usually, nothing would be awry if yume wasn't around to execute someone over a no lynch or the like. everything about yume being scum is just fitting into place for me, and let's not forget that meredith and "i am both town and mafia" are two things that don't exist.

everything about yume fits as scum for me, so call me confbiased if you want but risk vs reward wise we lynch my strongest scumread and at worst we mislynch a lurker miller. i reallllly want a yume lynch, would settle for kise if enough people aren't willing to play ball, and do not want smocaine but don't townread him enough to blow up and attack each individual voter.

I don't really think Shido fits with an executioner ability (I can make a leap to justify it, but it would really be stretching it). I honestly don't know much about the reaper since I never ran into it in the game. I guess the reaper could make some sense, but mostly I'd just like to see more from Yume than just playing from her role (or potential fakeclaim).

As far as her play goes, would her townplay be as barren for content as she's been demonstrating thus far? That, along with the early confusion I had with her roleclaim, makes me lean scum on her.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Ellibereth

[Brian Skies]

I get the feeling the Kise wagon only exists to exist, not because people think it'll flip scum.

[Brian Skies]

Seems more like scum faking reads to me.

What's your scumread on Kise based on?

[Brian Skies]

Examples?

[Brian Skies]

look flavor shit isn't my specialty
it's something I've never really had to deal with before this game.

I don't see why scum wouldn't have an obvious good guy pt fakeclaim.

If they didn't all the good guys pt just nameclaim and we'd have a giant townbloc yeah?

That's really not why the Mulch wagon is/should be opposed.

I don't think anyone other than maybe Penguin seriously believes that Mulch is town just because he claimed to be Ann. There are little nuances in the way Mulch was interacting with his pressure that indicate that he's probably town, and unless you think Alisae decided to tell the scumteam who Akira was (why?), it's likely he's town just for knowing Dave's identity. Also, the PT's aren't masons, but they're a bunch of informed townies, and looking to form a townblock based on their limited knowledge makes sense. It's also incredibly unlikely to clear people off of this knowledge by claiming Dave's identity since everyone pretty much knows it the instant the first person claims the knowledge.

Not to mention that Mulch is already probably a dead man walking now that he's claimed an investigative role.

But no, Mulch couldn't possibly have been more frustrated as a PR this time around because every time he was a VT he may have reacted differently.

[Brian Skies]

dude like every post they've made including the segment you quoted earlier.
and every attempt to interact with me they've made that i've been ignoring lul

I'm going to need specific examples because Kise looks town to me, and I don't think any of his reactions are fake like you're claiming.

Why do you think scum knew Akira's identity at the start? Doesn't that seem a little silly in light of only certain town being given Dave's identity? Even moreso since Dave's deathproof is an enabled ability.

[Brian Skies]

The person I'm voting. I would also accept Smocaine and to a lesser degree Yume (who constantly goes up and down for me, but I guess a Rolecop could potentially check to see if it's a miller). I also haven't been getting the greatest vibes from NC. Penguin is also questionable.

[Brian Skies]

Chika I have as questionable for flavor reasons only. I do think their posting and pushes are more likely to be town-motivated.

[Brian Skies]

Do you think Penguin can be scum independently from Mulch?

[Brian Skies]

dude like every post they've made including the segment you quoted earlier.
and every attempt to interact with me they've made that i've been ignoring lul

I'm going to need specific examples because Kise looks town to me, and I don't think any of his reactions are fake like you're claiming.

Why do you think scum knew Akira's identity at the start? Doesn't that seem a little silly in light of only certain town being given Dave's identity? Even moreso since Dave's deathproof is an enabled ability.

Still waiting.

[Brian Skies]

Because you made it up and have nothing to back it up with?

[Brian Skies]

2500[post]. why do you think this? i have no sense of what the thought process behind you is.

I think both parts are pretty self-explanatory. Especially the former if you've been reading my posts.

your comments look like an outsider looking in.

To whom would I be the outsider looking in? My scumread?

[Brian Skies]

I was promised a full catch-up from the Mastina head. This is a sham!

[Brian Skies]

I would support a Penguin lynch.

[Brian Skies]

you linked me your flavour speculation in response. i should have specified, what i wanted to know was why you found their play to be town-motivated.

the "outside looking in" perspective was to the game as a whole. you're next on my ISO list so i'll see.

Everything? Their pushes on Key/Ram/Varsoon all look and feel town to me. His Penguin Power push also seems like its coming from a townie place. None of their posting looks forced or fake to me. 502 is good posting, 1351 seems to be something I can see town them wondering (especially based on the way they're scumhunting right now), and 1631/2081/2442 where they keep an eye on the lower content/activity slots and their follow-ups instead of getting caught up with the main discussions or blending in make me think town. I don't feel like doing PbPA, but that's pretty much the gist of it.

From my perspective, I've gone from consensus scumread -> either a townread or in the non-lynch pile. So I don't see how I'm 'on the outside looking in' at all. Unless you think Ellibereth + Purple Nurple are some sort authority as far as who should be lynched/townread/etc, in which case you're just wrong.

[Brian Skies]

Kise is the least of three evils and the most likely to flip scum i think, so i'm loathe to move away too.

Because...?

[Brian Skies]

i wasn't referring to how other players view you, but rather your own thread engagement.

I don't think 'you seem to be on the outside looking in' makes sense unless there's some question about how I'm being viewed by other player(s).

[Brian Skies]

i wasn't referring to how other players view you, but rather your own thread engagement.

I don't think 'you seem to be on the outside looking in' makes sense unless there's some question about how I'm being viewed by other player(s).

then we had a miscommunication due to my wording? i don't see how it matters. i didn't mean it that way, end of story. it's more like how you hop in with a relevant comment but i feel no sense of engagement with the thread itself.
not really the end because i'm not finised ISOing, but you know.

I mean, I wasn't harping on it and wasn't intending to continue the point at all. But lol.

What do you mean no sense of engagement? What're you smoking?

[Brian Skies]

QUOTE THIS POST IF YOU THINK THIS IS AN AWFUL GAME WITH AWFUL PLAYERS BUT A GREAT MOD

[Brian Skies]

From my understanding, we only need 6.

[Brian Skies]

It's fully dependent on Yume's cooperation, which I'm not at all planning to rely on.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Brian Skies]

what the fuck guys some nice person went through the effort to write 2739 sheep that shit jesus

(the writer should sheep themselves too!)

VOTE: Kise

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Brian Skies]

also that crier chick's art is pretty cute.

She's a cougar.

[Brian Skies]

Eli/dave/chess/creature/leon/

chara/ram/smoc

does anyone in this group disagree with anyone in this group being town?

I disagree.

[Brian Skies]

Kise

i really didn't liked this and push on PP as counter and i was thinking "if Kise flips red, this'll too", when i changed my vote

VOTE: Brian

Intesresting, would do Chikoritas first though. I would even do Penguin over Brian I think

you do you, i do who i think is scum and i can back up my read

You mean when I asked why people were scumreading Kise and it took me 15 pages to get anything resembling a case on him, and it wasn't even by someone that was on the wagon?

[Brian Skies]

I don't understand what Mulch has to do with your night action, and sounds mostly like a you problem.

I feel less strongly about Mulch town as I did yesterday, and his 1-day grace period to use his role is over. His interactions surrounding the Kise wagon at EOD weren't good. I just feel stronger about PP and Smocaine right now (particularly the latter if you think there's traitorscum in this game).

[Brian Skies]

I had no idea you softed anything. I'll probably find it once I finish this reread.

[Brian Skies]

Kise

i really didn't liked this and push on PP as counter and i was thinking "if Kise flips red, this'll too", when i changed my vote

VOTE: Brian

Intesresting, would do Chikoritas first though. I would even do Penguin over Brian I think

you do you, i do who i think is scum and i can back up my read

You mean when I asked why people were scumreading Kise and it took me 15 pages to get anything resembling a case on him, and it wasn't even by someone that was on the wagon?

how about fact that you never stated why Kise is town? And your attempt again to push PP is interesting - that was counter wagon at EoD to Kise - probably strongest and most important conspiracy member. I liked you naked vote on Kise and next post going back to PP without saying anything

I never stated why I thought Kise was town because I wasn't confident in the read and wanted people to help me in that regard. I spent the majority of EOD engaging Ellibereth, who was one of the strongest advocates of the wagon, and he not only refused to give me his reasons (which I asked him for), but he asked Leon to make the case for him.

I voted PP because while I thought the case was okay, it was written in a way that didn't seem like the person who wrote it was even that convinced by it. The alternative wagon was very obviously going to be Reck, who I wasn't okay with being lynched or even run up, so I just sheeped onto the Kise wagon (who I wasn't even that confident about even after the case and Mulch's sudden defense there made me very uncomfortable about it all).

[Brian Skies]

First of all, Dave is town. So ???.

Also, shouldn't overlap like that be a good thing?

[Brian Skies]

how about fact that you never stated why Kise is town? And your attempt again to push PP is interesting - that was counter wagon at EoD to Kise - probably strongest and most important conspiracy member. I liked you naked vote on Kise and next post going back to PP without saying anything

I never stated why I thought Kise was town because I wasn't confident in the read and wanted people to help me in that regard. I spent the majority of EOD engaging Ellibereth, who was one of the strongest advocates of the wagon, and he not only refused to give me his reasons (which I asked him for), but he asked Leon to make the case for him.

I voted PP because while I thought the case was okay, it was written in a way that didn't seem like the person who wrote it was even that convinced by it. The alternative wagon was very obviously going to be Reck, who I wasn't okay with being lynched or even run up, so I just sheeped onto the Kise wagon (who I wasn't even that confident about even after the case and Mulch's sudden defense there made me very uncomfortable about it all).

are you really try convince me that PP had good case while Kise didn't? I tried look your ISO, but i couldn't find anything serious why you prefer PP lynch[/quote]
All PP has is flavor spec. I never bothered making a case because other people have already pointed this out (and it's not like making a case on that slot is worth my time anyway).

[Brian Skies]

i just thought about something - any claimed PT can confirm that you had choice go to Metaverse pregame? Because town starts in real world and Conspiracy in Meta, so Mulch claim he went to Meta could be slip, if it wasn't possible to do so

I don't understand what you're getting at here since Mulch is claiming a character that would almost certainly be able to make this choice pregame (and I think Varsoon claimed to go to Metaverse as well). Also, some characters reside in the Metaverse (see Igor, the twins).

[Brian Skies]

God of Control (Real World Immunity / Nexus): You are immune to all actions that target you in the real world, and you cannot be sent a Calling Card. Any action except for killing actions that targets you in the Real World

-- Scum are sent a calling card first post.

Why didn't you copy the whole role? Why are people not understanding what a Nexus does?

"God of Control (Real World Immunity / Nexus): You are immune to all actions that target you in the real world, and you cannot be sent a Calling Card. Any action except for killing actions that targets you in the Real World will be redirected to someone else."

Wanna talk about the game? Who are your scums

Eli/dave/chess/creature/leon/chara/ram/smoc

Unsure with chess, Leon, and ram. Disagree on smoc. Rest I agree.

I'm bad at Day 1...especially in a large. I need some time to sort more. Also, as I said before, you are town. Absent a confirmed guilty, I won't deviate from that.

This is based on this post right?

So what are your thoughts on Shadow Ann?

[Brian Skies]

I voted PP because while I thought the case was okay, it was written in a way that didn't seem like the person who wrote it was even that convinced by it. The alternative wagon was very obviously going to be Reck, who I wasn't okay with being lynched or even run up, so I just sheeped onto the Kise wagon (who I wasn't even that confident about even after the case and Mulch's sudden defense there made me very uncomfortable about it all).

why were you townreading Reckoner at that time? if it's in your ISO, you can just quote it. thanks.

what do you mean by Mulch's defense making you uncomfortable? i know you had him as town yesterday, is that why.

I'm away from my computer so I don't really want to explain my Reck read. If you're just skeptical that I would have a preference between the two, then I'm just going to point out that he's been a strong townread for me since my first wall post.

I think there's a stark difference between Mulch's hard defense of Kise and his usual behavior of being defensive, attacking his primary attacker, and being generally useless. Me thinking he was town was also a part of it.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Mulch

[Brian Skies]

Brian: i'd like to know the why of you townreading him more than how long you have been. i'll look at your first wall post.

so you got bad feelings about the Kise wagon because of Mulch's defense, because it seemed out of character for what you'd known from Mulch this game?

pedit: i'll miss you, eddie.

I don't think there's any benefit to me explaining it right now. If you think he's scum then I'm willing to discuss it.

Yes. I know he was townreading Kise but it still felt weird to me at the time.

What's your reasoning for townreading Smocaine?

[Brian Skies]

It's because the defense came from scum

Gut feeling.

[Brian Skies]

i don't have a good read on Reckoner, but it's sitting at nullscum. if you have a good reason to townread him i want to hear it. but that's secondary, my priority is reading you.

so it felt weird to you... why does that mean you back off from the wagon? what do you think was going on? Mulch's odd behaviour is either a reason to suspect Mulch, or a reason to suspect Mulch and Kise as a pair. i'd understand backing off if you thought it was the former, but you said you were townreading him. i'm trying to understand why you thought your best bet was to step aside from it.

I can explain it better when I get computer access. He's not in danger of being lynched right now and I don't mind him being suspected since he can defend himself.

I don't understand the question. I didn't back off of Kise because of Mulch. I was already voting Kise when I started to feel this way and it's why I stayed on the wagon.

[Brian Skies]

Jsyk, this post (including the timing of it) makes me think it's a crumb. I also don't think anything from this slot is particularly townish or un-fake-able. So your townread here is ethereal to me.

[Brian Skies]

I moved to Penguin because I have an ego.

[Brian Skies]

Because it came on the heels of me explaining the Arcana. The B looks kinda like an 8 and I haven't gotten the impression his keyboard was actually busted.

[Brian Skies]

Chara

?

My action failed last night

what does this have to do with me?

You're the only one I trust with this knowledge

3134 also suspiciously looks like a traitor soft.

[Brian Skies]

Doesn't Kise flip mention Akechi being Conspiracy aligned?

[Brian Skies]

You gave the Conspiracy Akechi, a soul who wanted to to be acknowledged, and wanted to be the star of the show. He hated his father and he wanted the tools to destroy him at his glory.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Smocaine

[Brian Skies]

You can vote too?

[Brian Skies]

No.

[Brian Skies]

<<Still town.

[Brian Skies]

PASSIVE
Phantom Thief: You are aware that other Phantom Thieves know your identity. If you preform an action on a Phantom Thief, you will learn that the person you targetted is a Phantom Thief.

@Mod: Does this ability investigate whether the target has the Phantom Thief Alignment or whether their character is a Phantom Thief from the game?

[Brian Skies]

I really would've made the town faction called something different that "Phantom Thieves," because that rhetorical distinction is pretty fucking huge.

Akira and Futaba both have separate abilities that check for alignment though.

[Brian Skies]

Don't you automatically get kicked out of the metaverse for the Day/Night cycle after you go to the metaverse?

[Brian Skies]

PenguinPower is confirmed and unlynchable scum.

[Brian Skies]

PenguinPower is confirmed and unlynchable scum.

Yes. I know that. Quite aware. Where did I imply otherwise? In my notes which were made before D3 began?

I wasn't given any indication that you did know and wanted to see if you'd adjust your notes.

[Brian Skies]

I wasn't given any indication that you did know and wanted to see if you'd adjust your notes.

You were given indication:

I've read the stuff since daystart though I basically need to read ALL of D2 and over half of D1 still.

PenguinPower being confscum is part of the content since daystart.

Yes, but none of the notes you fed to me indicated you were taking it into account.

Are we going to argue about this or are you just going to accept that it's irrelevant and move on?

[Brian Skies]

I wasn't given any indication that you did know and wanted to see if you'd adjust your notes.

You were given indication:

I've read the stuff since daystart though I basically need to read ALL of D2 and over half of D1 still.

PenguinPower being confscum is part of the content since daystart.

Why is Penguin conf scum? Did I miss something?

[Brian Skies]

PenguinPower has been sent a Calling Card and is lynchproof for the day.

[Brian Skies]

I thought we've come to the conclusion that PT != confirmed town?

[Brian Skies]

I thought we've come to the conclusion that PT != confirmed town?

I have to think about it more, but I think PT likely does mean town right now.

-We have had a godfather flip.
-This was in the form of a PT who also had a PT as a fakeclaim (Akechi/Ann)
-There are 8 total PTs. 6 left alive.

-If 2 of the PTs are used for scum (even one being a fake claim), it is very unlikely yet another one would be scum or a scum fake claim.

-PLUS, not only have we had a GF flip, we also had an ascetic flip. That is 2 scum who cannot be guiltied.

-This means that it is unlikely there'd be yet a third investigative proof scum.

-We obviously either kill penguin tonight or lynch him tomorrow if it fails. From his flip, we will know if he was a form of godfather or ascetic. If he is, then maybe it is reasonable the entire scum team is invest proof and we can throw innos out the window. In the far more likely scenario where he's not, then I feel pretty safe calling a PT investigation an inno.

Am I wrong here?

I agree that PT's at this point are more likely town than not.

I don't understand why you think scum can't have more than one PT fakeclaim. I also don't think investigation immunity has a correlation with whether scum has a PT fakeclaim since scum got to choose/distribute their fakeclaims.

[Brian Skies]

-We obviously either kill penguin tonight or lynch him tomorrow if it fails. From his flip, we will know if he was a form of godfather or ascetic. If he is, then maybe it is reasonable the entire scum team is invest proof and we can throw innos out the window. In the far more likely scenario where he's not, then I feel pretty safe calling a PT investigation an inno.

I don't think Penguin is investigation proof/ascetic since he received a calling card. I'm also pretty sure Dave is forced to kill him tonight.

[Brian Skies]

Has anybody claimed phantom thief aside from Varsoon and Rational Numbers?

I'm pretty sure LUV claimed to be Yusuke.

[Brian Skies]

He probably did it because people refused to engage him.

[Brian Skies]

@Varsoon:

Did you target Yume with your vig N1 or did you target someone else?

[Brian Skies]

I targeted Yume.
As far as they had claimed, their instant-lynch was a huge liability and I was under the impression it continued the day, despite the night being such a useful resource from what I could tell by Akira's role and my own.

Since when is getting a flip before the night phase (and a potential nightkill) a liability?

[Brian Skies]

- Key looked bad and knowing the flips Brian looks pretty bad too. Btw, viewtopic.php?p=9688357#p9688357 after having just said Kise was in their scum pool... bleh.

You do realize that post was me chasing down the reasons people were scumreading Kise after I asked them (and was promptly ignored) here?

- Creature really should be town, but his interactions are making me doubt my meta read. He does take Elli's PoE but pushes the wrong stuff in it.

What wrong stuff is he pushing? From your PoV, isn't CiA in the PoE pile?

[Brian Skies]

Bottom of page 143. Varsoon 3571 contains a potential (likely?) lie. I'm not going to say what atm.

If Varsoon is scum, then I think that's probably the best lynch since he's claiming a killing ability on top of the one we're already aware of.

I also think Varsoon scumflip heavily indicates Creature town here.

[Brian Skies]

If Varsoon is scum, then I think that's probably the best lynch

Kappa

What does your analysis look like with the perspective of Varsoon being scum?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Varsoon

[Brian Skies]

Also, some characters reside in the Metaverse (see Igor, the twins).

[Brian Skies]

Also, some characters reside in the Metaverse (see Igor, the twins).

That does not explain why my kill and roleblock would've successfully connected from the real world, though.

Other than you being scum trying to bait/lead a lynch on Creature, who is widely townread?

[Brian Skies]

@Brian: Oh, yeah, except I'm not scum, so, try again.

If you flip scum, I'm going to feel really vindicated that I was right you were baiting PR's on Day 1, and that you were probably trying to do it again to Creature here.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, no one else should vote until Dave comes in.

[Brian Skies]

Fuck it, there's so much a target on me already.
I enable Akira's ability to send Calling Cards.

I'm just going to point out that this is almost certainly a bait.

If he's town, then he's probably going to die tonight anyway. Even then, why does town Varsoon with this ability gladiate here? It makes even less sense considering he's also claimed a vengekill (if he was telling the truth about that, then just let him vengekill). How much do you want to give away to scum before you lynch it? At the very least, if he's scum, then you don't give scum a free ticket to neutering our deathproof alignment cop.

[Brian Skies]

I'm going to sleep now. Stop being dumb and lynch Varsoon.

If he's town (highly unlikely), then he deserves to die for his shit play. And his gladiate is almost certainly because he saw the writing on the wall and thought he could use it as a last chance to weasel out of his impending lynch.

[Brian Skies]

Also keep in mind that he's now claimed:
A Vig
A Gladiate
A Day Roleblock
Calling Card Enabler

Do you seriously think this role exists on top of Dave's?

[Brian Skies]

What are you talking about? Dave was clearly indicating that Varsoon was lying before the gladiate and I was indicating it as well.

[Brian Skies]

Hey Brian
When I flip town,
You owe me a fucking pizza.

If you flip town you should apologize to the entire playerlist for your completely garbage play and gamethrowing.

[Brian Skies]

is he your buddy BRIAN SKIES?

Here's a thought.

If Varsoon's my buddy, then shouldn't you help me bus him?

Also, no, I'm not scum.

[Brian Skies]

How about you apologize to Varsoon regardless of anyone's alignment

Why should I apologize to Varsoon?

If he's town, he:
-Rolefished D1
-Potentially tried to kill town because he didn't understand mechanics (See: Creature)
-Gladiated Creature instead of trying to work through the issues in the claimed actions

If anything, he should be apologizing to Creature.
And I guess Dave if you seriously believe he's the Calling Card Enabler.

[Brian Skies]

Okay.

Varsoon, I'm sorry for accusing you of gamethrowing. That was uncalled for.

I still think you're scum though.

[Brian Skies]

And if Varsoon is scum, we've just outed the Town Calling Card Enabler to the scumteam when Varsoon would've just died anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Hey Brian
When I flip town,
You owe me a fucking pizza.

If you flip town you should apologize to the entire playerlist for your completely garbage play and gamethrowing.

Yeah, it's not like there was a mod slip that informed my play or that the Phantom Thief / Phantom Thief thing wasn't unclear
But hey fuck me right?

Take your bullshit out of here.
It's hardly a goddamn game throw, either.

I mean, it's not like both Dave and Futaba BOTH HAD SEPARATE ACTIVE ABILITIES THAT CHECK FOR ALIGNMENT SO WHY DID YOU THINK IT WAS A COP ABILITY?

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, I've said what I wanted to say, the bus drive has nothing to do with me, and I need to go to sleep now.

I trust in whatever ends up happening.

[Brian Skies]

Happy Halloween!

[Brian Skies]

It just occurred to me that it's possible for us to lynch both of them today. Lulz.

[Brian Skies]

announcement: i'm dumb. apparently our busdrive didn't switch the kill because varsoon and us weren't in the same world.

>.>

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE: Varsoon

I would like a no lynch.

[Brian Skies]

i don't mind it. i've been busy anyway.
who wants to be motivated?
you can choose to take that question seriously or not.

You should motivate me.

[Brian Skies]

Varsoon, Destroyer of Days.

[Brian Skies]

Since at least one person already knows what I'm going to claim, I'm only willing to claim last. If you don't like it, you can lynch me. Idrc.

[Brian Skies]

Dave doesn't count since we already know what he's claiming.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, I shall return once my turn comes around and Alisae responds to me.

[Brian Skies]

y

[Brian Skies]

Brian "claiming after conftown" "lurksack" Skies

Brian "Whiner" Skies

I did however target Brian Skies mom

missed apostrophe

This is slowly starting to get oddly personal and you should stop.

[Brian Skies]

EVERYONE Y/N on "Have I targetted Purple" in their next post.

N

[Brian Skies]

Prod dodge.

[Brian Skies]

I'm Haru Okumura, or Noir in the Metaverse. I'm a Phantom Thief's Universal Backup.

I started with the Phantom Thief, Metaverse App, and Empress Arcana passive abilities.

My Real World ability is Rightful Heir and my Metaverse ability is Persona Awakening (they do pretty much the same thing). Basically, I inherit the role of the first Phantom Thief to die, but I will never inherit passive abilities. If Dave were to die first, I would only receive his enabled Alignment Cop and his Limited Strongman Vigilante Ability. It explicitly says I wouldn't inherit the Card Collecting or Dreaming God abilities, nor would I be able to send Calling Cards. But I would be able to shoot anyone that received a Calling Card. But none of that matters because...

I inherited Reck/Futaba's role. I have Alibaba in the real world, and the Odd-Night Watcher/Even-Night Voyeur in the Metaverse. I've also been in the Real World all game.

^I claimed all of this to CiA in our neighborhood yesterday (I received a neighborhood with them starting Day 3).

I wiretapped Chara last night. I only know my action didn't fail, but I should also be able to conclude it succeeded since Chara successfully tracked me to itself. I did nothing on the other days/nights because no abilities.

It should also be noted that while Goro Akechi is technically a Phantom Thief, Alisae wouldn't let me have his role since supposedly I can only backup town roles. This wasn't mentioned anywhere in my role PM, so I'm guessing it was probably intentionally left out so I couldn't assume there could be a scum-aligned Phantom Thief (or it was some oversight). So it's probably more accurate to say that I'm a Phantom Thief Aligned Phantom Thief's Universal Backup.

[Brian Skies]

Rolecop probably would've been the best. Rip the dream.

[Brian Skies]

I think chikoritas had a similar ability, and mulch was a backup of both

No?

[Brian Skies]

METAVERSE
Let's Explore Mementos! (Compulsive Modified Flavour Copping Modified Busdriver): During the day and night, you must target two players. Should your action succeed, all actions targeting the first player will target the second player; all actions targeting the second player will target the first player. As a result, you may not self-target. You will also learn the flavours of who you busdrived. If you busdrive scum, you will recieve their fakeclaim instead of their real flavour.

I don't think this counts as a flavor

tracker

.

[Brian Skies]

N1, I was targeted by Creature. I was targeted by a protective action (my self-watcher and self-voyeur are technically separate actions, so if multiple people visited me, I wouldn't know who used what ability).

Does anyone know whether this should be possible since Creature's only action is a Metaverse one?

[Brian Skies]

also a reflexive neighborizer. N2 creature visited me and thats how we got a hood.

This also happened.

[Brian Skies]

Creature...confusing the masses even after death.

[Brian Skies]

N1 Went into Metaverse as we can't submit real world actions while traveling to metaverse.

Are you sure that's how your role works? Because it doesn't line up with how LUV supposedly played his role:

I am Yusuke Kitagawa

I have a bunch of actions depending on where I am.

When I'm in the real world, I'm an odd night last will inventor and even night loudizer. the loudizer was really cool as the action of whoever I target is mod confirmed ITT. my slot never used this so RIP.

When I'm in the metaverse, I have JOAT abilities. I can out those but maybe I shouldn't. IDK you guys decide.

I don't quite understand how I get in and out of the real world but I can figure that out if necessary.

n0 I stayed in real world
n1 I gave last will to chara and entered metaverse
n2 I motivated davesaz
n3 I gave last will to leonshade and entered metaverse

I feel I should have been in real world in even nights so I could use the loudizer but it's not how my slot played.

also as part of my role, I know that davesaz is akira kurusu and town.

that's it.

[Brian Skies]

I don't remember seeing a neighborhood in Creature's Role PM. So the neighborhood between Creature/Chess was probably from some ability.

I sent a PM to Alisae asking how the Metaverse App works with my Night Actions.

[Brian Skies]

how about everyone in the game visits me tonight

except the mafia pls

Can I get an exemption since I'm trying to line up the Metaverse with my Watcher ability?

[Brian Skies]

u alrdy havr an exemption from 4920

Lol. I'm town though.

[Brian Skies]

N1 Went into Metaverse as we can't submit real world actions while traveling to metaverse.

Are you sure that's how your role works? Because it doesn't line up with how LUV supposedly played his role:

I am Yusuke Kitagawa

I have a bunch of actions depending on where I am.

When I'm in the real world, I'm an odd night last will inventor and even night loudizer. the loudizer was really cool as the action of whoever I target is mod confirmed ITT. my slot never used this so RIP.

When I'm in the metaverse, I have JOAT abilities. I can out those but maybe I shouldn't. IDK you guys decide.

I don't quite understand how I get in and out of the real world but I can figure that out if necessary.

n0 I stayed in real world
n1 I gave last will to chara and entered metaverse
n2 I motivated davesaz
n3 I gave last will to leonshade and entered metaverse

I feel I should have been in real world in even nights so I could use the loudizer but it's not how my slot played.

also as part of my role, I know that davesaz is akira kurusu and town.

that's it.

I sent a PM to Alisae asking how the Metaverse App works with my Night Actions.

^Still skeptical of this. Hopefully Ali will have responded to me by the time I get back later.

I have no idea since I've never tried to go to Metaverse and just assumed I'd be able to travel/use Real World ability on same night.

[Brian Skies]

Mulch gives an ascetic modifier to someone.

Chara

?

My action failed last night

what does this have to do with me?

You're the only one I trust with this knowledge

^Also why I targeted Chara. I wanted to know if Chara was ascetic.

[Brian Skies]

Are you still disabled from your dreaming god power Dave?

Haven't been told anything about being enabled.
I'm hoping it's not a case of it being the "Caroline+Justine both target someone" thing.

All the mod answers have been not at liberty to tell me yet.

LOL
IT PROBABLY IS

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

The twins appear as Igor's new Velvet Room assistants. They act as the protagonist's correctional officers. They fuse Personas by decapitating the components with guillotines (when they become stuck during fusion accidents, they finish the job with a large chainsaw). They also convert Personas into useful items via an electric chair, as well as hang them from a gallows in order to transfer their power to another.

HAHAHAHAAHAHA

I feel like they would do some weird fusion or something. If you really want to go off flavor, then Igor is the one that gives Kurusu the ability to collect Arcana and form social links.

[Brian Skies]

N1 Went into Metaverse as we can't submit real world actions while traveling to metaverse.

@RN:

Can you confirm with Alisae whether this is how your role works?

[Brian Skies]

Actually check that -- you believe the strongman is real and the report of the role is incorrect?
In a you town, PN scum scenario we can use that as a doc, given that kills happen in the world of the killer. It's not as strong as a real doc and there should be 2 scum by standard balance theory, but still it's interesting.

In a PN scum, PN lying scenario maybe the role is something dangerous to town, though we do have Ellibereth (?) who seems to have survived it?

I don't understand the doc bit?

~~Math

Scum in metaverse presumably need to target their kills in metaverse. If the whole kills don't work across worlds thing is real.
So if a player is scum and forced to metaverse, kills submitted by them are limited in which players they can target.

Spelled out like that it makes me wonder why they've been able to get so many hits, which probably means it doesn't work that way to begin with. But it's a nice thought.

I'm guessing the factional kill probably goes by different rules and that the dimension wouldn't matter for them.

[Brian Skies]

i mean they just need any bad character with the same card as a good pt yeah?
you tell me if thats possible

if you know flavor

who are the most likely possible remaining conspiracy characters?
what characters are most likely to be third party.

0 The Fool - Igor/The Holy Grail
1 Magician - Morgana
2 Priestess - Makoto Niijima
3 Empress - Haru Okumura
4 Emperor - Yusuke Kitagawa
5 Hierophant - Soijiro Sakura
6 Lovers - Ann Takamaki
7 Chariot - Ryuji Sakamoto
8 Justice - Goro Akechi
9 Hermit - Futaba Sakura
10 Fortune - Chihaya Mifune
11 Strength - Caroline & Justine (Margaret)
12 Hanged Man - Munehisa Iwai
13 Death - Tae Takemi
14 Temperence - Sadayo Kawakami
15 Devil - Ichiko Ohya
16 Tower - Shinya Oda
17 Star - Hifumi Togo
18 Moon - Yuuki Mishima
19 Sun - Toranosuke Yoshida
20 Judgment - Sae Niijima
21 The World - Plot Element Only

Which of these are PTs? Didn't someone say there's only 8 PTs? Also, are there any other characters we are likely to see?

There are the villains of the game. Each of the villains is tied to a specific Phantom Thief.
Kamoshida- gym teacher antagonizing Ann (Lovers) and Ryuji (Chariot)
Madarame- fraud artist enslaving Yusuke (Emperor)
Kaneshiro- crime lord that Makoto (Priestess) is investigating
Wakaba Isshiki (the Sphinx)- Futaba's (hermit) mom
Okumura- evil CEO and father to Haru (Empress)
Sae Niijima- investigator trying to stop the Phantom Theives and sister to Makoto **note: Sae winds up changing sides and helping the PTs later, possible non-scum role
Shido- corrupt politician who setup the false evidence that screwed the Protagonist/Akira in the first place; Akechi's father
Igor, aka The Holy Grail- in actuality is the god Yaldabaoth and the real final boss of the game

Akechi (Justice)- starts out as a cop trying to track down the PTs, joins the PTs temporarily, then betrays them in the end as he is actually working for Shido the big bad...but in actuality Shido is his father and he hates him so he's trying to kill him? It's pretty convoluted.

Without reading too much into flavor and outguessing the mod, it wouldn't surprise me if certain villains/scum have special conditions related to whether their PT counterparts are alive and in the game. I'm pretty damn convinced, though, that Akechi is a third party, and it would SHOCK me if he wasn't some kind of serial killer since his entire thing in the game is he goes around killing people in the Metaverse which causes them to die in the real world.

There are plenty of minibosses that are sorta like sidequest bosses, I dunno that any of them are important enough to feature in the game. Then there are like random teachers and students but they're not big characters.

[Brian Skies]

so smokey is flavor confirmed town yeah

No. If Igor is a fakeclaim, scum could have distributed it to someone else.

[Brian Skies]

If you think Smocaine is town from play, that's fine. But don't clear someone off of bad reasoning.

[Brian Skies]

I can't think of any scenario where Ram wouldn't be town here and would like him in the 'not-lynching pile.'

[Brian Skies]

Role stuff. I don't think he's scummy anyway.

[Brian Skies]

None of the villains make sense to me as having his abilities. Dave and Chara both confirmed receiving his 1-Shot Doc ability.

Tae Takemi is basically Kurusu's drug dealer in the game (she's a doctor with a clinic in his neighborhood and she sells him medicine and performance enhancement drugs and other things).

He is also supposedly due for a Doc Action tonight as well, since he just used his invention ability last night.

[Brian Skies]

k cool
can you confirm my smocaine town flavor argument too

Sure. I can put him on Ram levels of probably town.

[Brian Skies]

I'm Hifumi Togo, Star Arcana. Not a PT. Default location is the Real World.

I'm a 1-Shot Conditional Commuter Self-Watching Self-Voyeur. I automatically commute the first time I'm (assuming that the killing action would kill me, so if I'm docced I wouldn't commute). Regardless of location, I have a voyeur and watcher on myself on all actions targeting me in the metaverse at night. The second ability doesn't work if I'm commuting.

I can't actually move to the metaverse through my role, so the "regardless of location" in my role PM made me think that there are roles that can transport me to the metaverse.

What's the name of your ability and what do your abilities have to do with your character?

[Brian Skies]

It really doesn't matter. I wouldn't ask them if it could easily be explained.

[Brian Skies]

I'll keep it in mind for next time.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Leonshade

[Brian Skies]

N1 Went into Metaverse as we can't submit real world actions while traveling to metaverse.

@RN:

Can you confirm with Alisae whether this is how your role works?

[Brian Skies]

I'm Hifumi Togo, Star Arcana. Not a PT. Default location is the Real World.

I'm a 1-Shot Conditional Commuter Self-Watching Self-Voyeur. I automatically commute the first time I'm (assuming that the killing action would kill me, so if I'm docced I wouldn't commute). Regardless of location, I have a voyeur and watcher on myself on all actions targeting me in the metaverse at night. The second ability doesn't work if I'm commuting.

I can't actually move to the metaverse through my role, so the "regardless of location" in my role PM made me think that there are roles that can transport me to the metaverse.

What's the name of your ability and what do your abilities have to do with your character?

[Brian Skies]

Also yay, woke up just in time to avoid a prod.

I also didn't take the rolestopper claim seriously, but also don't think a PN lynch is the worst thing in the world.

Leonshade claim is still incredibly sketchy and I have a hard time seeing that come from town.

[Brian Skies]

If someone is mapping out night actions, then Toranaga should probably BG someone tonight.

[Brian Skies]

What do you consider sketchy about it? I assume you mean the role, since I just claimed during the massclaim.

I don't think it makes any sense for your character to be able to see Metaverse actions performed on them. She's neither a Phantom Thief nor resides in the Metaverse, so I don't see how she'd be aware of them.

[Brian Skies]

I don't think it matches with the flavor in any way.

[Brian Skies]

Except the fakeclaims that have been revealed to us have been mostly blank.

[Brian Skies]

my role literally wouldn't work if I couldn't see abilities targeting me in the metaverse

I'm aware of this. And I wouldn't be surprised if this is your actual ability, but a scum one.

[Brian Skies]

Not really.

[Brian Skies]

More like 0%.

[Brian Skies]

Alternatively we can always go back to lynching Chess to see if Creatures ability really should have resolved on him as claimed.

[Brian Skies]

What's been easily verified by Leonshade? Creature's action hasn't been verified and Leon's had the luxury of claiming after other people, so...

[Brian Skies]

Leon claimed 3rd what are u smoking?

and my reflexive neighborize is incredibly confirmable so proposing my lynch on that basis is dumb as hell

Yes, but nothing he's claimed is verifiable, especially since the only action's he's claimed are 1) Creature (who is dead), 2) mystery scum action that he can be lying about, and 3) Toranaga giving him a Last Will Inventor who claimed before him.

Yes, yours is confirmable. I'm not really worried about that. Leonshade's could be confirmable, but even if it is, I still think it's likely to be a scum role.

[Brian Skies]

Ramcius' actions have been verified (one of whom is our conftown) and there isn't really anything that would make sense as having those abilities as scum.

[Brian Skies]

you literally just threw in a snarky ' Or we could lynch chess.

Y'all "cleared" and off the table for now but if you keep pushing in bad faith I'm gonna start speccing 2 godfathers

Yes, because you're fucking annoying and you're discrediting me despite admitting knowing nothing about flavor. And if you're going to continue with the 'don't listen to derp-Brian despite Brian having better voting history than me,' then I'm perfectly okay with the others lynching you.

[Brian Skies]

<<< Voted all three scum

[Brian Skies]

you and Toranaga are both doing the push anyone not u shit and that's what I'm pushing against

How have I done this in any way?

Town
Dave

Very Town
Drixx
Mulch
Chesskid
Leonshade
Reck

Less Town But Still Probably Town
LUV
Mastina (move to above group if second head is Boonskiies)

Small Gap From Above Group
Creature

Very Slight Townlean
Not Chara
Penguin Power
Kise

Unsorted Due To Brain Being Unable To Process 60+ pages and 21 Player Slots
Everyone Else

You Can Do Better
Alchemist

Probably Just Me Sheeping The Sentiment Of The Louder Players
Smocaine
Chikorita

Likely Scum
Ellibereth
Varsoon
Yume (highly questionable)


HURT: Alchemist
HURT: Smocaine
HURT: Chikorita
HURT WITH A BLADE: Ellibereth
HURT WITH A BLADE: Varsoon
HURT WITH A BLADE: Yume

Yes, this was because I was under the false assumption that Alisae wouldn't tell scum who our confirmed town was.