Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

[Maki and Kaito]

We join the hydra game!
@Eddie I don't really think you making that claim that me scumreading Wheme means I'm setting up a ML when you don't know my reasons also "lynchable" players get scum roles all the time sit back let me work ^^
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

OMG you two that avi is amazing

SEE DUNN ALISAE LIKES IT-I mean Kaito.

[Maki and Kaito]

I guess I'll wait before posting my thoughts.

I didn't want to out Maria in case she was playing under a secret alt, but her posting style was impossible to miss.

Thanks Leon you're great. Did you have a read on my slot you were keeping hidden for meta or?



~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

if you won't read pregame that's trash, because whether or not it should have happened there was a shit ton of content this pregame that is VERY relevant for sorting people properly. it isn't useless garbage.

i dont care

Why did you even sign up?

this

VOTE: Wheme

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Mulch

[Maki and Kaito]

i feel as though Varsoon's emotional reaction to things like Penguin's ideas about what "flavour is alignment indicative" means and interactions with chesskid were more intense than the reaction to Mulch's gamethrow.
is it my head or not?

I already sent in a report. My issues with the Mulch gamethrow, if it's coming from town, are issues that are independent of what should be happening in this gamespace.
I'd like to not spend any more game-space energy talking about Mulch.
That said, we can probably PoE a shitload of town around it, so that's cool?
Unless we're being punked and Akira's identity means shit-all.

Side topic, who did you send in a report to?

[Maki and Kaito]

so I can't read the whining fest here but agree it has to die sooner rather than later

but I'm going to throw out a curveball

I had "no idea" who akira was as it's NOT in my role PM, but if you had put a gun to my head before :loldrama: I would have guessed correctly based on the number of people who thought it was funny to manufacture a townread on a slot that's done nothing.

Soooo this is why I blew up at Version and why I don't think Alchemist moment was legitimate. Something to consider?

Yeah, we also had no clue who akira was, though he is at least mentioned in our role pm.

I don't know anything about the flavor myself, can somebody explain to me why akira is a significant player in this game?

I'll take it, though:

In the game, Akira and his allies are the Phantom Thieves. They are the playable characters in the story. This is your team.
However, you still meet other people who support your cause--these people, in addition to the Phantom Thieves, offer you different Arcana (powerups), such as Chariot, Hanged Man, Moon, Lovers, Emperor, etc.
PurpleNurple claimed to offer the Hanged Man arcana. In the game, that arcana belongs to a character who sells weapons to the party and has connections to the yakuza. This character, while a supporter of the Phantom Thieves, is not an actual member of their group.
Ergo, it makes sense for him to be town-aligned, but not know Akira's identity.

So explain more about these arcana?

Do you think scum can have roles that give arcana?

[Maki and Kaito]

I don't support people with arcana claiming it, btw. There might be more to the setup that we don't know about and presumably akira can already get the hanged man arcana from purplenurple

VOTE: rationalnumbers

mod - gladiating the other hydra (rational numbers

this is scum. mulch can post again. I'll be back phoneposting in the morning and I'll probably make a case after school. mastina and I habe both been pretty confident in this, but this slew of horrible posting setting up their attempt to mislynch our slot after their policy lynch on mastina the townread didn't pan out is just reassuring. FTR, quick notes: I wasn't "shading his opinion". I was stating what my impression of Mario's experience with mulch was. I wasn't your hydra posted multiple times after me asking you about your read, so that's bullshit too unless it was just math in which case I apologize. and math DEFINITELY POSTED without giving yume experience, multiple times, so yes, that's utter bullshit. and finally, thst last line of your last post is horrible and misrepping. I didn't say removing mislynches, I said whoever was likely to be the lynch the next day, which is also scum sometimes.

I'm going to bed. this is not a troll so hopefully alisae will be online in time to get some actual votes one way or another. even if I'm lynched here, mastina wanted to die anyways and scum never lynch me without piling on so this'll be very revealing regardless.

Really? This gladiate is grossly anti-town at this stage of the game.

[Maki and Kaito]

I think it's ridiculous to assume town has numerous confirmable 100% town roles right now

[Maki and Kaito]

so I can't read the whining fest here but agree it has to die sooner rather than later

but I'm going to throw out a curveball

I had "no idea" who akira was as it's NOT in my role PM, but if you had put a gun to my head before :loldrama: I would have guessed correctly based on the number of people who thought it was funny to manufacture a townread on a slot that's done nothing.

Soooo this is why I blew up at Version and why I don't think Alchemist moment was legitimate. Something to consider?

I think your reactions to me are pretty natural and think you're Town because of them, so I'm willing to believe for a bit that you could be Town who didn't know who Akira is. That said, I'm not at all familiar with Persona 5 so I'd like to hear from people who are familiar with the theme if there could be a in-flavor reason why some Town would know Akiru and some wouldn't.

Yes, there is a reason.

There are the core party in the game, the Phantom Thieves, who all are friends with the protagonist (aka Akira) and know his secret. Those character names are Ryuji, Ann, Morgana, Yusuke, Makoto, Futaba, Haru, and Akechi. Akechi turns out to be a traitor/psychopath, so it wouldn't surprise me if there's an SK or scum out there who knows Akira's identity.

Looks like Varsoon explained this, nevermind.

FTR, all this talk of claiming, I'm not saying shit about my role today. So let's just not.

The whole chess v Varsoon back and forth looks like a lot of selfrighteous masturbation on both parts so I'm gonna call it a wash for now.

I still don't understand this ~QuIrKy~ hurt bullshit RationalNumbers is doing but it makes me want to just votepark them.

Ayyy at least we have a gladiator happening? THANK god.

@Elli

: Okay hunty let's sit down for just a minute

IF Mulch is actually scum, he's SK not groupscum IMO because the ONLY role that makes sense to know Akira's identity and not be town-aligned is Akechi, who is SK-aligned not scum-aligned. (Possible that Akechi is a usurper instead of SK, I guess, but it's a long shot when town already has so much power)

So I'm looking at it like this... scum aren't going to get a full ass fakeclaim including info on who town power is AS A FAKECLAIM. hell the fuck no, that's essentially giving them the most powerful rolecop ever in pre-game for free. Let's throw the "Mulch is fakeclaiming" theory out the window for the most part

So our options are:
1) Mulch is Akechi-kun. This makes him likely antagonistic to groupscum in some way, even if he is a part of groupscum. It would also mean Ann is not in the game and two Phantom Thief roles are resting on one person.
2) Mulch is actually Ann and this whole wagon is pointless.

I think I would much rather vote elsewhere considering IMO it's way way way way way more likely Mulch is antagonistic to groupscum than he is a part of groupscum.

UNVOTE: Mulch

So there's a potential mafia traitor who knows the identity of confirmed town?
His play definitely matches that, with this flavor knowledge I don't think we should ever lynch outside of Mulch today.

I saw Akira's role pm at the start of thread and wow that's a lot of words

[Maki and Kaito]

I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.

you are selfish and a moron if this is true. reading up now
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Why don't you talk with me and maybe we'll become a townread or scumread who knows?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

What stance would you like to know?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

My whole thing on Mulch is I can see it coming from town him do I scumread him? No not really. he's selfish and an asshole for doing that and I almost want to policy lynch him but he's most likely just town end of the day Kaito scumreads him

anyone who tr's off flavor needs to stop right away why do you sr Mulch help me on that
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

I have no reason to tr Mulch none at all but the play seems so stupid that I think it could be town maybe the read will change after my read (I;m where mulch claimed but I doubt it)

[Maki and Kaito]

Also the fact you wanted my stance before talking is strange to me. Talking regardless of your stance gets a read (or better if you had one) on our slot. Would you not have talked to us if we were 100% against you?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

First off can we agree to this.

If Mulch is scum the play wasn't stupid. He wasn't selfish. He wasn't an asshole. It was just a decent play given the playerlist.
And as such, "the too stupid to be scum" argument doesn't work. He's been on the site long enough and been in enough games to see how defeatism and AtE effects people watching, faked or not.

Second,

I'm glad you don't buy the flavor shit. I can deal with disposing of that argument some other time then.

Finally,

I don't have time to go dig up posts and quotes from various threads right now, if I end up needing to I'll probaly have to do it later, but the way he exploded here does NOT match his explosions in his other town games and his attitude expressed about his play does NOT follow the general attitude he's had in other games and expressed in MD. Like I'm pretty sure if you guys go skim his stuff and actually try to compare them you'll see what I'm talking about. He tried to imitate it but the timing and the way he did it fell short.

The rest of the read isn't stuff you can directly verify I guess? I have a lot of experience judging faked vs. real blowups in general because faking these were realllly common back in 2011 and 2012 and this one just screams fake from experience. But I've calmed down and I understand that most of the town people here don't have that experience so they need to rely on comparative shit hence the above paragraph.

I fully agree if Mulch is scum that was planned to get a townread and he's smart enough to fake that. My meta from mulch is I remember one scum game when his reads were wrong he was being stubborn and this somewhat reminds me of it but I don't want to base a scumread on meta alone I'm fine with the vote given Kaito sr's the slot and I trust his read. Hopefully I can chat with Mulch or get something more from him after fully reading thanks for this.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

I can not stress enough that if you think "oh (flavor person) fits this role so they're town!" No never do this no mod is that stupid that they can't make good roles. Will finish my re read now
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Meta question, I'm pretty sure I have seen Yume before as really bad scum, unless I have alt identifications and/or memory wrong. Which game was it where she ended up being crafty scum? Would crafty scum!Yume take the risk of looking like bad scum!Yume as a way to soft clear herself as being beyond the point she'd make that kind of mistake?

Spring fever u-pick hosted by rc is what you're thinking of I think

[Maki and Kaito]

Anyone else have feeling like this RN vs PN fight is staged?

Hint: they got warned by the mod for personal attacks

[Maki and Kaito]

self watcher isn't top role, why you chosed it over rolecop for N1

I wanted to go into the metaverse

yes, i saw, but it's weird to me, so i expect results from you D3

(i think you town, because i doubt scum team would give you PT fakeclaim)

One of the phantom thieves is a traitor though, I think it's likely one of the scum have that role and are a phantom thief. At least one

[Maki and Kaito]

Anyone else have feeling like this RN vs PN fight is staged?

Hint: they got warned by the mod for personal attacks

huh? where?

post 1399

[Maki and Kaito]

Can we wagon Kise? His answers have been trash to anything he's been asked.

~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Hey hey hey

I have none yet.

Because you can't. My ability prevents me from being lynched once.

Sure, do so at your own risk.

However, I will say this: it's a bad idea.

Be ready for consequences.....

This isn't something town says in response to 1 vote

VOTE: Yume

I think we are better off voting here rather than having a vigilante shoot here

[Maki and Kaito]

Assume Mastina had an arcana: Then from the sample role PM she’d know Davesaz is town.

This isn't true if you've been keeping up with the game; only phantom thieves knew that davesaz is akira is the premise we're under

[Maki and Kaito]

There are 22 player slots in this game. There are also 22 Major Arcana

See, this is important information that other people who know the flavor seem to have been withholding

This isn't something town says in response to 1 vote

VOTE: Yume

I think we are better off voting here rather than having a vigilante shoot here

have you played with Yume before? i don't know how to read her, but so far she hasn't done anything out of character. it's frustrating, but i don't think just lynching her is a good way to resolve it.

Yeah I've been scum with her 3 or more times

[Maki and Kaito]

Can we wagon Kise? His answers have been trash to anything he's been asked.

~Maki

Please do.

Why?

[Maki and Kaito]

Gut read luv is scum

[Maki and Kaito]

Is there flavour justification you tcan think of that would allow Ann or Ryuji to be scum?

Stop trying to base reads on flavor flavor in any game should be N A I if we base a game on flavor we're 100% fucked the mod would know better then to flavor this game to hell as AI

cause, again, flavour is alignment indicative.

I'm going to shoot you.

Eh, Wheme is probably town but his reasoning for 174 doesn’t sit right with me.

The only towny thing I've seen Wheme do is ask about the claims in prep game and I feel like if he was mafia he'd have asked that in his pt (mafia have pre game chat I assume)

Kise, can you explain why you don’t think I’m scum again?

Luv's reads are decent and I agree with them? I don't scumread him? Yo wtf something is wrong here

Are players refusing to hop on the Smocaine wagon because he's a townread or because they think there's no case?

the latter

All caught up and I feel the 2 other hydras fighting are locked into a tunnel and any towny line the other says they'd just glaze over or find a way to find it scummy I think there's a chance both are town and I kinda want both to shut up so others can talk given scum is most likely in lower posters who are just letting these guys fight it out
also
VOTE: Smocaine
I know what I just said but a lot of my tr's are on the wagon and I don't tr that so let's give it a shot.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Really Eddie? This feels like um...what was the game we just finished LOL you know what I mean though this reminds me of that luv why do you sr him? I don't know why Kaito sr's him either even if I tr him.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Btw, light fos kise.

Wanna start a wagon with me? He's my biggest sr.

[Maki and Kaito]

How do you guys feel about Brian Skies?
~Maki both posts

[Maki and Kaito]

Btw, light fos kise.

Wanna start a wagon with me? He's my biggest sr.

id hammer him later but I want luv lynched and your slot isn't exactly a lock town read either

I don't see having a read on our slot would matter to voting someone you sr but alright
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Btw, light fos kise.

Wanna start a wagon with me? He's my biggest sr.

id hammer him later but I want luv lynched and your slot isn't exactly a lock town read either

I don't see having a read on our slot would matter to voting someone you sr but alright
~Maki

I don't scumread him enough for me to want to do that though. if you were an ic, sure, i'd play ball.

this made me click my tongue mostly out of bewilderment you'd sheep a random IC just because they're Ic? I mean I guess sure. but having more confidence in your own reads should beat an IC so is RN your only "confident sr" at the moment?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

yume, I believe we should test your ability today.

that said, not yet, still lots thst needs to be done, particularly around a lot of dead slots needing to post more and rn posting their reevaluation.

I see no need to test her ability, I believe it is true and don't see the point of fake claiming it. Now the only question that remains is if that ability belongs to scum or town, right now I'm leaning town

[Maki and Kaito]

Should we start wagoning Maki and Hoito?

No

[Maki and Kaito]

This is an alisae game. "Does this role belong to town or scum" along with things like "scum would never get this role" are not the way to solve it. #modmeta


i am more concerned with how being a lets call it executioner miller makes sense. but yume can be town for today.

What are you even on about

Here is my interpretation of events:

You say we should test yume's ability

I bring up that I believe yume's ability and we don't need to test it

You say the ability can belong to either faction

You say yume can be town for their role


Anyway, the role is easily provable later, it's a day action too

[Maki and Kaito]

since nobody is interested in Kise I will join the VOTE: Smocaine wagon

What are you on about? There appears to be substantial interest for kise, including people talking about him a few posts above you and a few more pages back

This post really feels wrong

[Maki and Kaito]

Kise is v/la

Not a get out of jail free card

[Maki and Kaito]

Spoiler:

Hyped for this. Not hyped for 18 pages of pre-game.

How long do you take in average to read each page?

Depends on my motivation. Right now I'm not motivated to read pre-game unless consensus is that it's super important.

Oh, also, I'm Hated except in Mylo/Lylo.

Makes sense if you know the flavor at all.

I do,
My role's pretty flavor'd up.

You played the game and know the flavor?

I'm not asking anyone to out themselves, I'm just openly brainstorming some mechanics here.
If you think I'm anything but town, you're a loon.

I think you are for now based on flavor, but your hated role didn't seem to reflect in the vote count.

My bad, looked at the wrong side. Assuming it was going to show 2 votes.

Why are we voting Ellibereth? Pre-game or random?

That's cool, I guess. We have vote tags now. Change the b to a v. Looks cooler.

if you won't read pregame that's trash, because whether or not it should have happened there was a shit ton of content this pregame that is VERY relevant for sorting people properly. it isn't useless garbage.

Probably should point out the things you think relevant, because I'm not reading 18 pages of pregame crap.

Don't wonder what's happened if you suddenly cannot post anymore, LUV. It's simply me abusing site powers to win the game.

(*sigh* despite my jovial nature, I feel I have to state that the above was done purely in jest, and that I, as a site representative, would never abuse said powers *sigh*)

Still not reading pre-game.

Like... everything from pages 3-16. It isn't pregame crap at all, it jumped straight into content.

Can it be summarized, or are you telling me I have to go read things? I don't like reading things from the past.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

scum get fakeclaims dude

Ann is not going to be a fake claim. At all.

I don't think any role can be excluded from being a fakeclaim besides Akira.

I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the original PTs would be a fake claim given the opening game circumstances and Ali relying on flavor being alignment indicative. Anyone else, sure, but not the first three.

Dude the point of fakeclaims is for them to be realistic.
Frodo can be a fucking fakeclaim in lotr mafia.

I don't play many games where mod states that "flavor is alignment indicative."

Regardless, that's the game we're in.

flavor is alignment indicative AND SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIM

means the ACTUAL ROLES are alignment indicative
and for that to work the scum's fakeclaims have to be a bunch of fucking good guys.

But not a bunch of PTs. FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT indicative.

Scum fake claim is probably in Haru/Makoto since both have (somewhat for Makoto) scum-aligned relationships. Goro wouldn't be a good fake claim.

Ryuji/Ann, in my mind, cannot be fake claims given flavor. Yusuke/Futuba would be weird fake claims, so unlikely.

There's also a slew of support characters that could be fake claims, so I'm not certain that any PTs are fake claims.

Oh, cool, then.
I'm Ryuuji/Skull.
Guess that makes me conf!town.

I knew you were with your Chariot comment.

flavor is alignment indicative AND SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIM

means the ACTUAL ROLES are alignment indicative
and for that to work the scum's fakeclaims have to be a bunch of fucking good guys.

But not a bunch of PTs. FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT indicative.

Scum fake claim is probably in Haru/Makoto since both have (somewhat for Makoto) scum-aligned relationships. Goro wouldn't be a good fake claim.

Ryuji/Ann, in my mind, cannot be fake claims given flavor. Yusuke/Futuba would be weird fake claims, so unlikely.

There's also a slew of support characters that could be fake claims, so I'm not certain that any PTs are fake claims.

FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE means scum MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A PT FAKECLAIM.

Not that they DON'T have a fucking pt fakeclaim.

Great. And if they do, I told you which ones make the most sense from a flavor perspective.

No we better not believe it. For fuck's sake, we were explicitly told that Scum have fake claims. Alisae isn't an idiot so the fake claims aren't shitty, which means basically anyone EXCEPT the main protagonist can be a fake claim. You are smart enough to realize this, so I'm definitely giving you the stink eye for that post.

He's not a shitty mod, and he's great at flavor. I've outlined my theory regarding it, so feel free to dispute, but that's where I'm at.

P-edit: What the heck are you going on about with the multiple PTs thing PP?

PTs = Phantom Thieves - not Private Topics.

@mod: Sorry. I have to replace out.

WHY ISN'T KEY A WAGON???? IDIOTS.

Key doesn't have a replacement yet so what's the point?

No. I'm not replacing. I had a thing happen. I'm good now.

are you replacing out because of too much yelling

But, yes, too much yelling is happening.

Ok. I'm back.

I'll be caught up by the morning.

Ugh, prod, sorry. I'm here, and will finish catching up.

Oh, I was pretty sure Yume was claiming to be one of Igor's servants, who are the twins, Caroline & Justine.
They have access to 'execution' kinds of powers.

This is most likely given the hinted at duality and role - and even in terms of "flavor is alignment indicative" - is completely NAI. J&C were servants of the fake Igor (Yaldabaoth), but their true form (combined as Lavenza) helped the Protag.

That said, Yume indicated that she was one-shot lynch proof, and has an ability that can be confirmed...so...moving on.

Has Purple been entirely Eddie this game?

Oh, hey, a VC.

VOTE: Smocaine

Oh, hey, a VC.

VOTE: Smocaine

why

Because I town read most everyone on it.

his entire iso is basically just flavour speculation and when he catches up after like eight days of absence he doesn't actually post anything

Not sure how many times I've said this, but let me make it very clear. The only reason I am in a large theme game is because I love the flavor, and it is expressly indicated that flavor is alignment indicative. Discussing flavor in this game, unlike many,

is

helpful.

Actually, my flavor is Sae, and I am not technically lynchproof, I just can escape my own lynch once. There is a difference between the two.

Makes less sense role wise, but is still a NAI. Sae started out hunting the PTs but ended up helping them.

Just look at these posts, 1/3 of the posts are awful flavor speculation, 1/3 is making excuses as to why they're not going to read and post, and the last 1/3 is just meaningless posting.

PenguinPower has never really joined in on any discussion or took initiative for himself, he doesn't even discuss alignments outside of flavor speculation that is probably out of touch with how this game handles it. On top of that, for some reason nobody has really noticed him as scummy despite all his fluff posting.

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Maki and Kaito]

In fact, let me sort it a ll out for you guys, every single one of PenguinPower's posts fits into one of these three categories:

Spoiler: Flavor speculation

Oh, also, I'm Hated except in Mylo/Lylo.

Makes sense if you know the flavor at all.

I do,
My role's pretty flavor'd up.

You played the game and know the flavor?

I'm not asking anyone to out themselves, I'm just openly brainstorming some mechanics here.
If you think I'm anything but town, you're a loon.

I think you are for now based on flavor, but your hated role didn't seem to reflect in the vote count.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

Ann(e) Takamaki is not receiving a Traitor role. Sorry. Won't ever believe it.

So, Mulch may be bad town, but is not scum unless someone cc's that claim.

scum get fakeclaims dude

Ann is not going to be a fake claim. At all.

I don't think any role can be excluded from being a fakeclaim besides Akira.

I find it extremely hard to believe that one of the original PTs would be a fake claim given the opening game circumstances and Ali relying on flavor being alignment indicative. Anyone else, sure, but not the first three.

Dude the point of fakeclaims is for them to be realistic.
Frodo can be a fucking fakeclaim in lotr mafia.

I don't play many games where mod states that "flavor is alignment indicative."

flavor is alignment indicative AND SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIM

means the ACTUAL ROLES are alignment indicative
and for that to work the scum's fakeclaims have to be a bunch of fucking good guys.

But not a bunch of PTs. FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT indicative.

Scum fake claim is probably in Haru/Makoto since both have (somewhat for Makoto) scum-aligned relationships. Goro wouldn't be a good fake claim.

Ryuji/Ann, in my mind, cannot be fake claims given flavor. Yusuke/Futuba would be weird fake claims, so unlikely.

There's also a slew of support characters that could be fake claims, so I'm not certain that any PTs are fake claims.

Oh, cool, then.
I'm Ryuuji/Skull.
Guess that makes me conf!town.

I knew you were with your Chariot comment.

flavor is alignment indicative AND SCUM HAVE FAKECLAIM

means the ACTUAL ROLES are alignment indicative
and for that to work the scum's fakeclaims have to be a bunch of fucking good guys.

But not a bunch of PTs. FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT indicative.

Scum fake claim is probably in Haru/Makoto since both have (somewhat for Makoto) scum-aligned relationships. Goro wouldn't be a good fake claim.

Ryuji/Ann, in my mind, cannot be fake claims given flavor. Yusuke/Futuba would be weird fake claims, so unlikely.

There's also a slew of support characters that could be fake claims, so I'm not certain that any PTs are fake claims.

FLAVOR IS ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE means scum MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE A PT FAKECLAIM.

Not that they DON'T have a fucking pt fakeclaim.

Great. And if they do, I told you which ones make the most sense from a flavor perspective.

No we better not believe it. For fuck's sake, we were explicitly told that Scum have fake claims. Alisae isn't an idiot so the fake claims aren't shitty, which means basically anyone EXCEPT the main protagonist can be a fake claim. You are smart enough to realize this, so I'm definitely giving you the stink eye for that post.

He's not a shitty mod, and he's great at flavor. I've outlined my theory regarding it, so feel free to dispute, but that's where I'm at.

P-edit: What the heck are you going on about with the multiple PTs thing PP?

PTs = Phantom Thieves - not Private Topics.

Oh, I was pretty sure Yume was claiming to be one of Igor's servants, who are the twins, Caroline & Justine.
They have access to 'execution' kinds of powers.

This is most likely given the hinted at duality and role - and even in terms of "flavor is alignment indicative" - is completely NAI. J&C were servants of the fake Igor (Yaldabaoth), but their true form (combined as Lavenza) helped the Protag.

That said, Yume indicated that she was one-shot lynch proof, and has an ability that can be confirmed...so...moving on.

his entire iso is basically just flavour speculation and when he catches up after like eight days of absence he doesn't actually post anything

Not sure how many times I've said this, but let me make it very clear. The only reason I am in a large theme game is because I love the flavor, and it is expressly indicated that flavor is alignment indicative. Discussing flavor in this game, unlike many,

is

helpful.

Actually, my flavor is Sae, and I am not technically lynchproof, I just can escape my own lynch once. There is a difference between the two.

Makes less sense role wise, but is still a NAI. Sae started out hunting the PTs but ended up helping them.

Spoiler: Excuses why they're not going to read and post

Hyped for this. Not hyped for 18 pages of pre-game.

How long do you take in average to read each page?

Depends on my motivation. Right now I'm not motivated to read pre-game unless consensus is that it's super important.

if you won't read pregame that's trash, because whether or not it should have happened there was a shit ton of content this pregame that is VERY relevant for sorting people properly. it isn't useless garbage.

Probably should point out the things you think relevant, because I'm not reading 18 pages of pregame crap.

Still not reading pre-game.

Like... everything from pages 3-16. It isn't pregame crap at all, it jumped straight into content.

Can it be summarized, or are you telling me I have to go read things? I don't like reading things from the past.

@mod: Sorry. I have to replace out.

No. I'm not replacing. I had a thing happen. I'm good now.

are you replacing out because of too much yelling

But, yes, too much yelling is happening.

Ok. I'm back.

I'll be caught up by the morning.

Ugh, prod, sorry. I'm here, and will finish catching up.

Spoiler: Meaningless posting

My bad, looked at the wrong side. Assuming it was going to show 2 votes.

Why are we voting Ellibereth? Pre-game or random?

That's cool, I guess. We have vote tags now. Change the b to a v. Looks cooler.

Don't wonder what's happened if you suddenly cannot post anymore, LUV. It's simply me abusing site powers to win the game.

(*sigh* despite my jovial nature, I feel I have to state that the above was done purely in jest, and that I, as a site representative, would never abuse said powers *sigh*)

Regardless, that's the game we're in.

WHY ISN'T KEY A WAGON???? IDIOTS.

Key doesn't have a replacement yet so what's the point?

Has Purple been entirely Eddie this game?

Oh, hey, a VC.

VOTE: Smocaine

Oh, hey, a VC.

VOTE: Smocaine

why

Because I town read most everyone on it.

[Maki and Kaito]

For what it's worth Not Chara is simply a person who I just

want

to townread because the idea of it being town is something which fills me with an immense sense of happiness. So a townread for me there, too, albeit one I can't significantly substantiate.

hrm. This is something I can see myself saying so I don't know why it pinged me. I'm not fully against my partners vote but I'd still highly pref Kise/Smo
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Funny cause I tr that whole wagon

[Maki and Kaito]

It's funny because I disagree with everything purple says and still tr them.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Maki bleeds scum.

Bold claim hope you're ready to back it up.

[Maki and Kaito]

mastina explain your read on us it's strange and weird you've played a lot or soon a lot of my games so the fact you aren't super confident one way is a question mark for me.
You should be able to go into detail on your sr on us (or me) if you can't I'm gonna be reconsidering my read on you.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Eddie sring me I don't really care about but you sring me and just being "okay" about it is where I have an issue

[Maki and Kaito]

Thought I iso'd Purple Nurple on accident. Nope.

[Maki and Kaito]

scum 100% have fake claims sweet jesus. Also Reck is annoying bad town imo waiting for Kaito to finish his catch up
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

scum 100% have fake claims sweet jesus. Also Reck is annoying bad town imo waiting for Kaito to finish his catch up
~Maki

WHy do you think they are bad town over scum?

1) Feels too easy a lynch
2) I don't think he takes this tone/style as scum
3) Gut.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

woohoo updates

Scum are {Mulch, Kise, PenguinPower} + some subset of:

Yume
Chesskid3
Smocaine
Lil Uzi Vert
ChikoritasInAction

I can 100% get behind this
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Top sr gets lynched and flips scum? Check. next
VOTE: Smoc

[Maki and Kaito]

Eli/dave/chess/creature/leon/chara/ram/smoc

does anyone in this group disagree with anyone in this group being town?

Why Ram. Not Chess smoc needs to die.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

crier is probably scum

that said, there's no real reason to claim results eitjer way since crier only gets the game claims and not the real ones so it's effectively useless (outs town power to scum and doesn't dis anything negative to scum).

Are we reading the same thing? They didn't claim role cop.

Speaking of which:

I am also able to flavour track somebody each night

Customers (Modified Self-Watcher): If you are ever visited, you will learn how many people visited you.

Looking at this stuff, it doesn't really jive with:

I am Ann Takamaki. Davezsaz is Akiru. I am one of the phantom thieves which means that I can travel from the metaverse to the real world back and forth, and I went into the metaverse pre game cause it seemed cool. I'm a role cop in the real world and a self watcher in the metaverse.

This claim.

[Maki and Kaito]

yo varsoon
how many scum are in this settup.

Probably 5 and an SK.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a traitor and that's the player with a PT claim, meaning he can't communicate to the major scumteam who akira is.

So... you've got no suspicion on mulch right now even though you say this or what? You should be campaigning for his lynch if you believe this

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm not really scumreading mulch for the hard defense of Kise, and I'm not won over by meta arguments that Elli's made against Mulch.
While not a fan of how Mulch has approached the game in a lot of ways, I don't really see it as damning, and, frankly, the speed of the Mulch wagon has me hesitant to join it.
That said, I'm not really townreading the slot, either, so, ugh.

What do you think about the part where he outted dave for no reason and you guys let him get away with it? Why can't mulch be the traitor you're talking about?

VOTE: mulch

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Mulch

I'm not really scumreading mulch for the hard defense of Kise, and I'm not won over by meta arguments that Elli's made against Mulch.
While not a fan of how Mulch has approached the game in a lot of ways, I don't really see it as damning, and, frankly, the speed of the Mulch wagon has me hesitant to join it.
That said, I'm not really townreading the slot, either, so, ugh.

What do you think about the part where he outted dave for no reason and you guys let him get away with it? Why can't mulch be the traitor you're talking about?

VOTE: mulch

If he doesn't flip this shit after you gave him the road to, I'mma be hella pissed.

We did what?

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Eli Kise is v/la

Defended Kise

In fact, Penguin is a null read to me. Let me spill it a ll our for you guys.

Spoiler: I think PP

Spoiler: Is just bad

Spoiler: Regardless of alignment

Defended PenguinPower

VOTE: Varsoon feigning annoyance.

that wasn't feigning

HURT WITH A BLADE: smocaine btw

I appreciate the sr, but I don't see why someone would be frustrated with Mulch or Chesskid as of now. The latter is playing well and seems like they will be a town asset.

I'd add Lil Uzi Vert, Varsoon, Alchemist21, xRECKONERx, Maki and Kaito and Chara to my watchlist.

Out of these, the only one I'd take off the list is Varsoon. I think there's been odd parts to his play, like suggesting, then immediately dismissing a gambit to out all the Phantom Thieves, but overall I think those oddities are more likely to come from town than scum.

Do you think Penguin can be scum independently from Mulch?

Possibly, but if Mulch flipped town, I would consider those Penguin posts null. They're only scummy as an associative, as I don't think scum!Penguin would have any special incentive to stay off the Mulch wagon, especially on such poor reasoning.

I don't think scum expected Mulch to get lynched after his claim. I think a more viable theory is that he was getting ahead of their nk/Mulch's cop check by taking his side.

Defended Mulch

Also was off wagon on both scum lynches

VOTE: Smocaine

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm third party survivor

lynch this

[Maki and Kaito]

@Creature what is your location? real world or metaverse?

[Maki and Kaito]

OK. Varsoon, you are aware that as a member of the metaverse you can only target other players in the metaverse? That's probably why your kill failed.

[Maki and Kaito]

>Scum have abilities that trigger upon getting a Calling Card.

> There are 2 Dimensions: The Metaverse and The Real World. If your role pm says you can switch locations, you may jump into the Metaverse. Those in the Metaverse are uneffected by most actions in The Real World, and those in The Real World are unaffected by most actions in the Metaverse. Remember, if there is a conflict between a Rule and a Role, the Role will win. If you die in the Metaverse you die in the Real World. If you die in the Real World then you are just dead period. A protective action in the real world cannot prevent a kill in the Metaverse and vice versa.

Important information.

[Maki and Kaito]

Well hold on, what result did you get on creature? He claims to have been in the metaverse and you claim to have been in the real world, unless your role specifies you shouldn't have been able to get any action at all off from what I understand

[Maki and Kaito]

I've been in the real world this whole time.

Didn't you claim to be in the metaverse on day 1?

[Maki and Kaito]

Did everyone read the crier message? Whemestar, why did you think varsoon was the crier when he was a claimed phantom thief while the crier claimed not phantom thief? Who did you think was lying?

[Maki and Kaito]

There's no inno on anyone

[Maki and Kaito]

There's no inno on anyone

did Varsoon not claim Math is a PT?

I'm really lost rn.

Do you know what mulch flipped?

[Maki and Kaito]

I would be curios what inno dave has from n1, but of course that's still his choice.

Now is a bad time to reveal that information.

>Scum have abilities that trigger upon getting a Calling Card.

[Maki and Kaito]

I think the crier is town from their flavour tracker role and mulch being a backup of that

We also have morgana hidden away somewhere, and potential innos from Dave

Town is in a strong position right now. Let's take out Smocaine today, deal with penguin overnight or tomorrow when we can

[Maki and Kaito]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I figured out a way that we could break the game and confirm every Phantom Thief.
Part of the Phantom Thief role PM tells me who Akira Kurusu is.
If, somehow, we could all claim at the same time, who Akira is, we could immediately confirm all the Phantom Thieves.
Of course, that level of cooperation and getting everyone to post at the exact same time so scum can't just copy+paste and sneak in would be nearly impossible.
I also though that maybe when we run someone to L-1, they could claim and also claim who they think Akira is, but if scum somehow know Akira's identity (But they shouldn't otherwise this game design gets real dumb), we could confirm out people before lynching them.
Of course, that does out Akira, who seems to be our most useful PR or something.

[Maki and Kaito]

Am I wrong here?

I too read the crier message

[Maki and Kaito]

Has anybody claimed phantom thief aside from Varsoon and Rational Numbers?

[Maki and Kaito]

Quick look at Leonshade tells me he is more likely to be town than scum

[Maki and Kaito]

6 scum game

[Maki and Kaito]

Following up on the crier message, I think these messages are likely coming from Brian Skies. There are a couple of things that point to this:

-The crier appears to be relatively level headed in their messages. They are not claiming their own identity and they are not pushing their own reads. I would be very surprised if, for example, Purple Nurple or Rational Numbers were the crier.
-The crier talks a certain way, full grammar, no text speak, periods at the end of every sentence. In addition, they manage to put more than a few lines down. I would again be very surprised if the likes of Whemestar, Luv, Chikoritas were the crier.
-The tone of the posts, I don't really know how to explain it but the way this crier talks reminds me of Brian.

So there's my guess. Brian you don't have to respond to this, I'm just laying my thoughts out there.

-Kaito

[Maki and Kaito]

The crier talks a certain way, full grammar, no text speak, periods at the end of every sentence. In addition, they manage to put more than a few lines down. I would again be very surprised if the likes of Whemestar, Luv, Chikoritas were the crier.

I claim crier

then who you tracked N1?

He's not the crier and that's obvious. He even spelled the word differently:

I am a Modified Motivated Modified Flavour Tracker Cryer.

I claim crier

@Whemestar care to share why you kept quiet about your action? Or what was your thoughts on that

[Maki and Kaito]

Varsoon, Elibereth, Brian Skies, Leonshade are all town I bet from studying how the wagons went

Creature is also probably town

[Maki and Kaito]

Varsoon, Elibereth, Brian Skies, Leonshade are all town I bet from studying how the wagons went

Creature is also probably town

Elli is dead

No he's not, he just can't post today

[Maki and Kaito]

aside from placing votes.

No, he can't vote today either. I don't know why you think he can, a quick look at the votecounts shows 19 votes in play yesterday and only 16 in play today. Mulch and xreckonerx died, presumably elli's vote is also out of play

also i think that crier is mastina and that's the role that they were complaining about in early d1

-ryannnnnnn/echooooooo/i like toasttttttttt

Crier + flavour cop is a role that is anti town and needs to be lynched...? I don't think it matches up?

[Maki and Kaito]

@Mastina - This I swear to you: We will not clash this game. I'm tired of that shit. Agreed?

nice

[Maki and Kaito]

Okay I've re read and I don't know how you can sr our slot (unless you're creature who has not gone a game without scumreading/voting me) given we've outted sr's on all 3 scum and think we're a deep wolf Varsoon Creature and the 2 other hydras are town given the list we have left I'd vote in: Chess/Chika/Smo/Wheme/Brian/Ram all our scum are in there.

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

Luv is a PT I believe so try again.

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Ramcius

[Maki and Kaito]

It's already been explained why PT is most likely town and besides that the Luv vote is bad period PT or not.

[Maki and Kaito]

Wouldn't Kise being able to VT people make it more likely PTs

are

town he just had really awful play. Look at the other 2 scum it's not like anyone was really shocked at there flip because they had barely any influence on the thread. I think that explains why Kise was easy to lynch the only people who would save him (his partners) didn't do much

VOTE: Smo
Sure if you can clear yourself perfect I'll vote the person who was defending all flipped scum.
Pedit: Not at all I'll flip a vote on that if it happens.

[Maki and Kaito]

2 of them are gone so 6 being town 1 that can't get hit by the VT that makes it 5 people kise can hit (maybe even less) I think that makes sense.

[Maki and Kaito]

No I mean xRECKONERx he can only be killed.

[Maki and Kaito]

It's simple. Kise didn't flip hated. He flipped with only 11 votes.

Either someone on that wagon is a secret double voter (likely chesskid who ended the day early which is a scum claim in and of itself) or Alisae made a mod error.

~~Math

Pedit: Smocaine is null for me atm read wise. Because of the wagon data he's probably town based on counter wagons and vote trends so prob town.

Scum Chess uses his double vote he didn't tell us about on his partner to end the day? Think about that for a second.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Creature
yawn

[Maki and Kaito]

our amazing clear strikes again.

[Maki and Kaito]

If you could kill any one player in this game, who would it be?

i'm going to take this as something for when this shitstorm is resolved one way or another;
maki and kaito

VOTE: No Lynch

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

ChikoritasInAction, davesaz, Creature, Ellibereth, Leonshade, Brian Skies

Candidates For Promotion

Purple Nurple, RationalNumbers, Ramcius, WhemeStar, Varsoon

Watchlist For Meaniness

Chesskid3, Chara, Smocaine

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

Maki and Kaito, PenguinPower

these are my reads, i'll ask echo where he would put everyone.

-mm4

You haven't talked about our slot once this game, where did this read come from?

There's also various reasons I think this read is really stretched/forced

UNVOTE:

Varsoon, that was a bad gladiate.

Can I get an explanation for how actions are lining up? Are chikoritas and varsoon counter claiming each other?

[Maki and Kaito]

Note that the only reason we think it's a mod error is because Varsoon said that.

What I'm seeing without making any assumptions is him being essentially cc'd for his role on two separate fronts. And assuming mod error is an assumption I'm not sure I'm willing to make.

[Maki and Kaito]

Also I think the stuff he added on to the end of his claim (vengeful, calling card enabler) is really out there and I don't see him as the town gambit type

[Maki and Kaito]

I can get you the inception thread

Do we know for sure that there's an enabler? I don't see it in akira's role? Can anybody explain a flavor connection that would explain varsoon's claimed role?

[Maki and Kaito]

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71279

[Maki and Kaito]

rather, use this link for the main thread: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=71369

[Maki and Kaito]

I am on board with not lynching Varsoon for today if we know there is an enabler, though I believe if there were another enabler they shouldn't claim today

Varsoon, you should know not to target penguin as dave is stuck doing that. You should probably target smocaine as that's who town would have lynched, also they're likely to be scum as we've mentioned previously

I don't think we need to lynch creature, though, who I don't really scumread/think is a good lynch because we have other killing power flying around

[Maki and Kaito]

"There's also various reasons I think this read is really stretched/forced" on a scumread with no reasoning given LMAO

I'll ask you this, then. What have we been voting at the end of each day so far?

[Maki and Kaito]

the second post especially is kinda concerning considering maki has done jack-all to be helpful here and it looks fake

We've done plenty actually

[Maki and Kaito]

the busdrive thing kinda comes with a flavour cop thing

Is this the same ability the crier has? Do you think mulch would inherit your role if you died?

[Maki and Kaito]

Not over yet? K cya.

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Smocaine

[Maki and Kaito]

Since dave can die I suggest outting whoever you invested

[Maki and Kaito]

How did you know it was me posting Chara ;-;
Still wanna know why the mason sr us but me and dunn feel pretty solid on a Smo lynch

[Maki and Kaito]

Do we have any idea why Morgana died?

[Maki and Kaito]

Oh I thought the only person venged was creature mb

[Maki and Kaito]

Hey Math what's your read on me?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Someone forced Chikoritas to target PN last night or be roleblocked. The available ability would have been neighborize.
Chikoritas did not want to do that, and they didn't unless they did it via PM.

I received "something" from someone N1.

Good to know.

~~Math

Means PN is almost certainly scum.

stoppp and vote Smo

[Maki and Kaito]

if Brian is the crier, the crier is scum. if Brian isn't the crier, i can't make judgments on the alignments of either the crier or Brian. but Brian being the crier means i'm voting him.

You made me Sad Chara K? Let's just vote Smo

[Maki and Kaito]

Why do people tr him if any?

[Maki and Kaito]

MAKI

WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT

100% TOWN

COMING FROM ME

Sorry I've been ignoring your caps. Smo isn't town unless you're outting a clear then yay!

[Maki and Kaito]

I honestly wouldn't believe dave if he said he's read the whole thread rn. Also unless you think we bussed everyone so far I don't see how we can be sr but hey

[Maki and Kaito]

if Brian is the crier, the crier is scum. if Brian isn't the crier, i can't make judgments on the alignments of either the crier or Brian. but Brian being the crier means i'm voting him.

You made me Sad Chara K? Let's just vote Smo

@Chara

[Maki and Kaito]

actually, just ignore my last post.
my post about Brian will make sense later. he's town anyway, it doesn't matter. the point was supposed to be he isn't the crier.

pedit: sorry Maki, i forgot about that. i meant to respond that i'm not voting someone Elli says is 100% town.

That wasn't the point-read it again zzz

[Maki and Kaito]

VOTE: Wheme

Math join me here
Pedit: If you don't understand hush if you do just say you do.

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm gonna run my head into a brick wall until I teach you how to listen

[Maki and Kaito]

I honestly wouldn't believe dave if he said he's read the whole thread rn. Also unless you think we bussed everyone so far I don't see how we can be sr but hey

If you're not bottom 3, you're not a SR.

Read yes,

remembered

no. I have to be trying to remember it in order to get the eiditic (sp) thing, and >100 pages is a bit much even for me. Not to mention I wouldn't necessarily trust the memory given I also "remember" things that I thought hard about doing. (RL too, I have nightmares about "thinking" to bring my passport but getting to the airport and not having it )

Fair enough I guess it's much harder to be in your spot than mine your role sounds like fucking satan mb friend

[Maki and Kaito]

L O L

[Maki and Kaito]

I agree with the mass claim.

Ramcius, you shouldn't claim your night action for this night until the crier claims, so that we can confirm their action.

[Maki and Kaito]

UNVOTE:

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm saying if your turn comes before the crier is claimed, you shouldn't claim your target for today before the crier outs their own results (and you can claim that part after/at the same time)

[Maki and Kaito]

That's not what they claimed, what makes you think otherwise?

[Maki and Kaito]

We're not following what Math says.

[Maki and Kaito]

We're not following what Math says.

Because confirming Ram and the town crier at the same time is totally a terrible idea. GTFO with this shit.

~D

...what are you confirming?

[Maki and Kaito]

Definitely not cool with me claiming before Ramicus.

Better be a reason for this, whatever, let's save the talk for when it's your turn to claim then

I'll claim later, I'm town and my role is filled with stuffs I don't understand

Realize that everyone is waiting for your claim as you're at the top of t he claim list

[Maki and Kaito]

You're going off on a tangent, though, you're talking about future night actions while I've been talking about our current mass claim

I still don't understand your plan but again, we can talk about that later on in the mass claim when it becomes more clear

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm saying if your turn comes before the crier is claimed, you shouldn't claim your target for today before the crier outs their own results (and you can claim that part after/at the same time)

Here is the current topic of conversation.

[Maki and Kaito]

Toranaga I'm wrong you got moved to second claimer apparently

And we're still setting stuff up I guess

[Maki and Kaito]

Maki is something like this more agreeable to you than the previous in the wall

y/n/doesn't matter

Purple Nurple
Toranaga
Leonshade
Chesskid3
Chara
RationalNumbers
Maki and Kaito
Ramcius
WhemeStar
Brian Skies
Smocaine
Ellibereth
davesaz

WhemeStar higher up on this list please, I don't understand why they're so far down

I also don't think leon needs to go third, they can be lower in my opinion but it's not a big deal

The rest looks good

[Maki and Kaito]

N

[Maki and Kaito]

Toranaga
Maki and Kaito
Ramcius
WhemeStar

you guys left on the y/n to targetting purple and then purple starts mc.

Already said no

[Maki and Kaito]

targeted*

[Maki and Kaito]

^scum

[Maki and Kaito]

Can yall hurry up and claim before I get bored and just claim myself because I don't like being put into this "little order" so to speak zzzzz.
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

Nah, we don't have to kill Purple Nurple for their role

[Maki and Kaito]

Did some crosschecking, Toranaga's claim seems to add up with what the crier said:

The previous night I investigated

Lil Uzi Vert

, unfortunately I once again got a result that

my target went nowhere

which appears to be a dead end result for us.

Might be worth noting because if Toranaga is mafia:
A. it limits his claiming options
B. toranaga delayed in both phases of this claim, which could have been him getting a fakeclaim ready.

[Maki and Kaito]

In case it's unclear, it adds up because the crier is in the real world and so wouldn't have been able to target Luv on night 2 when Toranaga is claiming to have been in the metaverse

[Maki and Kaito]

Remember, deathproof enabler wasn't revealed until after night 3 actions. So davesaz was not a good target for the last will. Plus, we knew he had a mason partner (we didn't know mason partner was deathproof enabler).

I wouldn't have last willed Dave with that role.

[Maki and Kaito]

And his arcana is The Emperor.

This isn't so hard, claim your abilities, whether you're pt, your arcana, your flavor, your targets, and if applicable any results.

If I have to go to a third party site to figure out what your arcana is/if you're a phantom thief then you're not full claiming and I'm not sure why you're leaving that information out.

Remember that discussion of the things we know so far can be helpful to scum in deciding what/how to fake claim.

Thanks for your concern but I'm going to discuss these as they come along.

[Maki and Kaito]

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on Toranaga but I actually think he's more likely to be town than scum.

I'm just pointing out what he *could* do and have to claim around as scum here.

[Maki and Kaito]

Purple Nurple should be town (stronger read than Toranaga) too from what we've gathered

[Maki and Kaito]

Purple Nurple
Toranaga
Leonshade

Chesskid3

Chara
Maki and Kaito
Ramcius
RationalNumbers
WhemeStar
Smocaine
Brian Skies
Ellibereth
davesaz

Here is where we're at

[Maki and Kaito]

are we up

[Maki and Kaito]

viewtopic.php?p=9728521#p9728521

Check all the capped letters spells MAKI ROLL

we're the crier. we already claimed
Ram visited Chara last night (I got charas flavor and softed to them "you make me Sad K"
other targets didn't visit

[Maki and Kaito]

Wheme didn't visit n1
Luv slot didn't visit n2

[Maki and Kaito]

From 4375

The previous night I investigated Lil Uzi Vert, unfortunately I once again got a result that my target went nowhere which appears to be a dead end result for us.
As PenguinPower is being taken out of commission into the metaverse as per akira's ability, I will have to target elsewhere.

I will be targeting Ramcius tonight.
Once again, they are free to claim their target if they so wish. Let us hope that this investigation brings us results.

Question why did you target Ramicus last night instead of tonight?

We didn't you're reading it wrong.

[Maki and Kaito]

That post clearly says tonight and we read it today which means you should be following him tonight.

~~Math

We make a cry msg and track someone so when we say tonight we mean the night we enter the cry not "tonight as in the next day"

[Maki and Kaito]

I'm not the one who made it Kaito did. I was confused myself.

[Maki and Kaito]

Maybe we should've said "last night" but you get our point now.

We'll prob be using the crier as a last will now. If we can get put in a PT that has info we can help put that into our cry to help out but that's mostly what we'll do now

[Maki and Kaito]

Following up on the crier message, I think these messages are likely coming from Brian Skies. There are a couple of things that point to this:

-The crier appears to be relatively level headed in their messages. They are not claiming their own identity and they are not pushing their own reads. I would be very surprised if, for example, Purple Nurple or Rational Numbers were the crier.
-The crier talks a certain way, full grammar, no text speak, periods at the end of every sentence. In addition, they manage to put more than a few lines down. I would again be very surprised if the likes of Whemestar, Luv, Chikoritas were the crier.
-The tone of the posts, I don't really know how to explain it but the way this crier talks reminds me of Brian.

So there's my guess. Brian you don't have to respond to this, I'm just laying my thoughts out there.

-Kaito

they're sneaky little fuckers

^_~

[Maki and Kaito]

That post clearly says tonight and we read it today which means you should be following him tonight.

~~Math

Well let's see

Tonight, I am targeting

Lil Uzi Vert

.

The previous night I investigated

Lil Uzi Vert

Don't blame other people for your shortcomings

[Maki and Kaito]

Don't say I am reading your grammar failure wrong.

You read the second message and third message differently, stop blaming us.

[Maki and Kaito]

if Brian is the crier, the crier is scum. if Brian isn't the crier, i can't make judgments on the alignments of either the crier or Brian. but Brian being the crier means i'm voting him.

You made me Sad Chara K? Let's just vote Smo

Anyway this was the soft that was actually important because we saw Ramcius visit Sadayo Kawakami

[Maki and Kaito]

I agree that Whemestar is town

Purple Nurple
Toranaga
Leonshade
Chesskid3
Chara
Maki and Kaito
Ramcius
RationalNumbers
WhemeStar

Smocaine

Brian Skies
Ellibereth
davesaz

[Maki and Kaito]

oh wait crier probably said at some point that they get fakeclaim flavor nvm

Yeah we do, and we see the flavour of our target's target

[Maki and Kaito]

wheme's confirmed not conspiracy because he and creature got roles before scum selected who got what role and fake so lol.
I think alisae missed this.

Also: scum have scum flavor with town fake claims, assumably Caroline is obviously aligned with town if Justine is and he's confirmed to be Caroline

That's what I was going off of

[Maki and Kaito]

like the name?
or the blurb

like

OH ELLIBERETH
YOU'VE BEEN SENT TO HELP THE PROTAGONISTS NOT SUCK AT MAFIA
BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH

When we investigated Ramcius we saw him visit "Sadayo Kawakami"

So in a way we're kind of like a tracker and a flavor checker but we do get fake claims

I think chikoritas had a similar ability, and mulch was a backup of both

[Maki and Kaito]

It doesn't say who for us, it would have told him.

There's no counter claim to his role/identity

[Maki and Kaito]

METAVERSE
Let's Explore Mementos! (Compulsive Modified Flavour Copping Modified Busdriver): During the day and night, you must target two players. Should your action succeed, all actions targeting the first player will target the second player; all actions targeting the second player will target the first player. As a result, you may not self-target. You will also learn the flavours of who you busdrived. If you busdrive scum, you will recieve their fakeclaim instead of their real flavour.

[Maki and Kaito]

REAL WORLD
Ace Detective (Real World Role Cop / Backup Modified Flavour Tracker): During the night you may target someone. You will learn their role in the real world. If a Modified Flavour Tracker were to die, you will inherit their role. Upon doing so, anyone you rolecop you will also learn the flavour of the person that they visited if anyone. You'll be given the target's fakeclaim if you target someone who is aligned with the Conspiracy.

[Maki and Kaito]

Purple nurple is town as evident by the unclaimed scum role trying to get everyone to target them

[Maki and Kaito]

I am a Modified Motivated Modified Flavour Tracker Cryer.

[Maki and Kaito]

No, I think somebody agreed to target purple nurple before?

[Maki and Kaito]

Can the mod lie during pregame or is that considered bastard

That's why I asked that

Any unanticipatable moderator actions are bastard.

Hence one of my problems with Purple's Claim.

I would consider it bastard.

Then again I hold "weird" standards.

~~Math

A reflexive role isn't bastard

[Maki and Kaito]

@mod would mulch's role here gain a backup off of chikorita's role?

REAL WORLD
Ace Detective (Real World Role Cop / Backup Modified Flavour Tracker): During the night you may target someone. You will learn their role in the real world. If a Modified Flavour Tracker were to die, you will inherit their role. Upon doing so, anyone you rolecop you will also learn the flavour of the person that they visited if anyone. You'll be given the target's fakeclaim if you target someone who is aligned with the Conspiracy.

REAL WORLD
Ace Detective (Real World Role Cop / Backup Modified Flavour Tracker): During the night you may target someone. You will learn their role in the real world. If a Modified Flavour Tracker were to die, you will inherit their role. Upon doing so, anyone you rolecop you will also learn the flavour of the person that they visited if anyone. You'll be given the target's fakeclaim if you target someone who is aligned with the Conspiracy.

[Maki and Kaito]

METAVERSE
Let's Explore Mementos! (Compulsive Modified Flavour Copping Modified Busdriver): During the day and night, you must target two players. Should your action succeed, all actions targeting the first player will target the second player; all actions targeting the second player will target the first player. As a result, you may not self-target. You will also learn the flavours of who you busdrived. If you busdrive scum, you will recieve their fakeclaim instead of their real flavour.

I don't think this counts as a flavor

tracker

.

If this is true which I didn't notice before then that means Mulch was only a backup of us

[Maki and Kaito]

A quick look at Leonshade's iso and what they have been pushing makes me believe they are town, that or they bussed a good portion of their team

[Maki and Kaito]

here lemme give you an example

leon, you seem pretty competent

iso kise, do you see faked shit?

I figured that I'd have to ISO Kise anyway, so I kept this in mind while doing so. Here are posts that stood out to me:

710: This post bothers me a bit. Kise is flavor speccing, but he seems to put too much emphasis on the fact that he doesn't actually have full knowledge of the flavor. It's like he wants to float the idea that there's a traitor, while simultaneously giving himself plausible deniability that his spec might be correct. The post is essentially meaningless noise when taken at face value, but I don't like the fact that he's so insistent on giving himself breathing room to backtrack on the speculation.

765: The major contents of Kise's catch-up notes are just events that have happened. They're descriptive, with no analysis. In mafiascum terms, Information Instead of Analysis.

1140: Let's start off with the fact that Kise displays self-awareness of the fact that this post will be considered scummy, which is a negative in and of itself. Outside of that, what is Kise's motivation for outing his speculation on town players? If he's group scum, he wouldn't really have a reason to out this spec in the main thread, instead of in the scum PT. Outing town PRs is obviously anti-town, but that's why it usually doesn't come from scum. But what motivation does town!Kise have to out this speculation?

Kise could be town being silly or scum playing lynchbait, but I think the speculation especially fits the MO of a traitor. Letting the scumteam know who the town PRs might be, presenting it as town VI behavior, seems like a reasonable action coming from a traitor, more so than from any other alignment/role. Reading 710 with this in mind, Kise might've been signalling the fact that he's a traitor early on.

Given the fact that a traitor fits the flavor incredibly well, I think there's a very real possibility that Kise is the traitor.

1299: I think the reasoning for Elli being scum here is pretty weak. "Only" two scumreads isn't evidence towards them being a scum, especially when Elli had already posted a PoE list of his other scumreads at this point.

1302: The reasoning for LUV being a lurking PR is weak, there doesn't seem to be any thought into the possibility that he's lurking scum, or just lurking town. This might also be more likely to come from scum that is PR-hunting.

1420: Hoooo boy. This is the part of the ISO where Kise really starts forcing a tone that doesn't seem genuine at all. I think the best way to describe it is fake bravado mixed in with an attempt to be light-hearted and humorous.

Ignoring the tone for a moment, this line stood out to me:

You look like someone who's scared to be buddyless. You arready fucked up saying chess isn't obvtown and Dan isn't here to posse up with you either. You just gon have to come see me by yourself

Kise calls Elli "buddyless". Group scum have buddies, and even if we give Kise doesn't mean the term as used in mafia jargon, a scum player would never actually be alone. This could Kise slipping the fact that he knows Elli doesn't have buddies.

After 1420, there are other posts that I would consider fake as far as tone goes, but I don't actually consider that all too relevant to my read on Kise. The tone could just as easily come from town that is trying to force a "funny" tone to their posts. But with the other points I've brought up, and with the fact that I don't really see a reason to think that Kise is town, Kise looks like an attractive wagon choice to me.

I was going to analyze the Smocaine wagon, but I see that there's no reason to bother.

VOTE: Kise

VOTE: Mulch

More after lectures.

[Maki and Kaito]

Welcome Creature! In the Metaverse you are Justine, a Informed Real World Immune Conditional ??? Doctor.
You are aligned with the Phantom Thieves!

PASSIVE
Your default location is: The Metaverse
Arcana: Upon being collected by Akira Kurusu, you will unlock the Strength arcana ability for him.
O-Y-O-O (Informed): You are aware that Caroline is in the game and they are played by LOL XD. You do not know their alignment.
Part of Cognition (Real World Immunity): You are immune by any actions that may happen to you in the real world (besides lynches). This includes killing actions.
(Conditional ???): Upon you and Caroline targetting the same player, something magical will happen to the both of you.

METAVERSE
Good Cop (Doctor): During the night, you may target someone that is not yourself. They will be immune to killing actions if they are attacked in the metaverse.

[Maki and Kaito]

N1, I was targeted by Creature. I was targeted by a protective action (my self-watcher and self-voyeur are technically separate actions, so if multiple people visited me, I wouldn't know who used what ability).

Does anyone know whether this should be possible since Creature's only action is a Metaverse one?

Very good point, unless I'm missing something I don't think this should be possible?

Creature was firmly in the metaverse, Leonshade was firmly in the real world.

Hmm...

[Maki and Kaito]

Regardless of location, I have a voyeur and watcher on myself on all actions targeting me in the

metaverse

at night.

@brian

[Maki and Kaito]

Right, so actually I don't think your neighborizor adds up with your claim chesskid?

Leonshades does add up as his role specifically mentions metaverse only

[Maki and Kaito]

I'd guess that if scum is pt they have a pt fakeclaim to go with it (like mulch)

[Maki and Kaito]

A protective action in the real world cannot prevent a kill in the Metaverse and vice versa.

Here is our answer.

Creature still

counts as visiting

leonshade; he did see a protective action target him. But the doc had

no effect

So a reflexive action that triggers on being visited... could work between worlds, because it's proven they visit even if they have no effect

[Maki and Kaito]

I know it sounds like I'm being hard on Toranaga but I actually think he's more likely to be town than scum.

I'm just pointing out what he *could* do and have to claim around as scum here.

I agree with this to a degree. Something I wanna follow up on, someone quote this and remind me when mass claim is done plz.


Can everyone get their full claims typed up please? This shouldn't take 5 years.

[Maki and Kaito]

Purple Nurple, does your reflexive action work regardless of location?

[Maki and Kaito]

Do you think chesskid's reflexively neighborizing creature from a different world makes sense?

[Maki and Kaito]

well it's confirmed to so

The only thing that is confirmed is that you were in a neighborhood with Creature

I explained my thoughts already, I went back and looked at the mod post

[Maki and Kaito]

So that's 3 people now who forgot to submit night actions at some point in the game?

[Maki and Kaito]

how about everyone in the game visits me tonight

Can anybody else use multiple actions?

We're modified motivated remember, so we can use the crier and flavour tracker on the same night, but are other people able to do the same too

[Maki and Kaito]

how about everyone in the game visits me tonight

Can anybody else use multiple actions?

We're modified motivated remember, so we can use the crier and flavour tracker on the same night, but are other people able to do the same too

i can use both in same night

...how?

We actually have a passive ability that says that we are allowed to use both of our actions on the same night

[Maki and Kaito]

Am I correct in assuming that the doc itself isn't motivated?

That is to say, you can't use the doctor while performing other actions?

[Maki and Kaito]

You invent a 1-shot doc, right?

If you gave it to me, I wouldn't be able to use my crier/flavour track AND the invention, right? (our role specifies I'm only motivated for my crier and flavour tracker)

[Maki and Kaito]

You invent a 1-shot doc, right?

If you gave it to me, I wouldn't be able to use my crier/flavour track AND the invention, right? (our role specifies I'm only motivated for my crier and flavour tracker)

What I'm saying is, why would you give this to dave if he's got assumabley other stuff to do and the doc action isn't motivated so he has to choose between doccing someone or using his calling card/dreaming god actions

[Maki and Kaito]

Maki, no, 1-shot doc is extra action, i asked Ali D1, i wouldn't gave it to Dave otherwise - i didn't wanted him to need choose between cop and 1-shot doc

nvm I just got here, it checks out

[Maki and Kaito]

The WAY they have used the role, the FORMATTING of the messages

Was me.

[Maki and Kaito]

So you think our partner had a back up of our full role?
The fuck?
~Maki

[Maki and Kaito]

So you think our partner had a back up of our full role?
The fuck?
~Maki

That'd be more likely than being a backup of the other faction, no?

I'm obv bias but I think scum being a back up of scum is less likely then scum having a back up of a town role. Also look at the wording of Mulches role let me grab it

[Maki and Kaito]

So you think our partner had a back up of our full role?
The fuck?
~Maki

That'd be more likely than being a backup of the other faction, no?

This interaction likely exists to punish us if we are revealed as crier too early

[Maki and Kaito]

If a Modified Flavour Tracker were to die, you will inherit their role. Upon doing so, anyone you rolecop you will also learn the flavour of the person that they visited if anyone. You'll be given the target's fakeclaim if you target someone who is aligned with the Conspiracy.

It's not "if your partners flavor tracker died it's

If a ___ were to die

this hints that there is one out there (us) and they didn't know who.

[Maki and Kaito]

We don't even know if there's an ascetic for sure, we're not ascetic and that can be proven with night actions

[Maki and Kaito]

Chess/Creature how'd you get in a hood with Creature/chess?

I don't see a reason to make that info public.

implicit agreement from creature that he is in a hood

[Maki and Kaito]

Actually check that -- you believe the strongman is real and the report of the role is incorrect?
In a you town, PN scum scenario we can use that as a doc, given that kills happen in the world of the killer. It's not as strong as a real doc and there should be 2 scum by standard balance theory, but still it's interesting.

In a PN scum, PN lying scenario maybe the role is something dangerous to town, though we do have Ellibereth (?) who seems to have survived it?

I don't understand the doc bit?

~~Math

Scum in metaverse presumably need to target their kills in metaverse. If the whole kills don't work across worlds thing is real.
So if a player is scum and forced to metaverse, kills submitted by them are limited in which players they can target.

Spelled out like that it makes me wonder why they've been able to get so many hits, which probably means it doesn't work that way to begin with. But it's a nice thought.

I think it was established that kills are exempt from the location mechanic

[Maki and Kaito]

I forgot RN was targeted by Varsoon. So everyone except for Maki has been supposedly targeted.


Hi Eli.

We're not ascetic, and that can be proven tonight

[Maki and Kaito]

[Maki and Kaito]

OK. Varsoon, you are aware that as a member of the metaverse you can only target other players in the metaverse? That's probably why your kill failed.

I am Igor, a Modified Stasisizer / Metaverse App Inventor. I give the Fool arcana to Dave if he targets me. Softs:

Stop being fools.

Because they haven't towned. Probably just hanging in the back watching town eat itself.

I am doing that, but with a green role pm. On an unrelated note, this post is a jester soft. Keep the scumreads a'commin.

I can put any player into a protective bubble at night. They also get dragged into the metaverse and put into a hood with me for the day. Sadly people can't post in thread during it or use real world actions, but I am free to let them go during the day. I give the person I bubbled the ability to travel to the metaverse once

at their choosing

and while there this time, they may use any action they may have inside the metaverse. I trust Eli will confirm this part.

N1 Chara, I was roleblocked apparently. Soft here
N2 Eliberth
N3 Missed action, I thought I had 72hours for night

Do you protect a player from kills during the same night you stasis them?

[Maki and Kaito]

OK. Varsoon, you are aware that as a member of the metaverse you can only target other players in the metaverse? That's probably why your kill failed.

Strongman doesn't matter. We still have a night where we can assume scum don't have the strongman

Smocaine should stasis bubble Brian assuming that is a protective and Brian should enter the metaverse from there while he's at it
Dave and Chara, if you guys have doc shots on you protect Brian and Us (Maki and Kaito) respectively, mafia shouldn't have strongman tonight
Dave, if you don't have a doc shot you don't need to say that, but Chara has one for sure

This means that it is optimal to not lynch chara today

We have a tracker tonight where we shouldn't be killed, we have a tracker & watcher tomorrow night where strongmen may be in effect
+whatever davesaz can do with his arcana and he's another nightkill target

with a strongman in play, mafia are going to target davesaz, brian, and us, but we can still stop them from doing that for 1 night and have a big investigative lead

Tomorrow, the first thing that happens mechanicaly is that we (Maki and Kaito) claim our track result, who we target will be in the crier report

[Maki and Kaito]

I don't know why that keeps quoting

[Maki and Kaito]

wait, my plan won't work because they can force people to target

[Maki and Kaito]

Mulch had 2 different arcanas, right? Aren't there only 22 arcanas in the game? And there's 22 players in this game.