i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

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^^Have you been reading? Do you want a TLDR?

I have been reading, and I want a tl;dr. I won't lie, I'm very confused

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I want a tldr

I'm realising I don't myself know the full claims. What was that meat thing? I asked but no one answered

On the meat thing, and correct me if it's wrong, isn't it that Math was a multitasking FV one-shot MeatVendor (and also VegetableVendor) that vended meat to Titus, but instead the meat got to Elements so we suspect a driver of some sort?

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Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

And I vaguely remember there being another post where she reiterated, but I can't find it.

Now, this post puts me in a very bad position. Mostly because I don't really understand why she made it; I've still not caught up with the hood PT, but my hopes of finding enligthment there are slim. I will however say that I fully believe that there is some nasty hidden elements to my role, I have strong reasons to, and I suspect my predecessor did too. In any case, just in case someone was still ruminating on Gamma's bizarre soft there, the word elimination (nor equivalents thereof) does not appear anywhere in my PM, and the thing that my role can trigger will trigger on my death however that will be.

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I am fruit vendor (modifiers if any redacted) who sent one to Ranger
Kitty is the one you’re thinking of that hit Titus I believe

Been up all night and about to sleep.

Right, sorry, my bad, I'm mostly going off on memory and I binged the whole thing today

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Yes, that much I confirm.
I don't think it would be wise for me to tell what, at least not yet. You're gonna have to trust me on that.

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Spoiler: HighPrincessErinys' post

This one currently refuses to vote on imaginality or Titus but it's willing to do Owl.

VOTE: Quiet Owl

In the meanwhile, I want Ranger's yoga instructor. Arguing an unalive bomber is a serial killer is so stretching Ranger might as well be Mrs. Fantastic.

I am not arguing that's a real power a serial killer has.

I'm arguing that a similar power is something a serial killer would have at their disposal, and the self-bomber would be a town fakeclaim version of it.

It guesses...? But like, it feels like a really really weird claim to make as SK. Being alive after N4 would seriously jeopardize both her own survival and the survival of her hypothetical SK duo partner imaginality. It's a house of cards-level gambit where if anything goes wrong before N4, they're both as good as dead, and if she lives come D5, there will be a very large amount of scrutiny against her and imaginality that cannot easily be brushed off as "Oh yeah, I must've been doc'd." without literally outing a doctor which could be Pretty Bad depending on the situation. It's just way too risky for any kind of scum duo to do. Hell, it's risky even as town because mafia could have who knows what tools to frame her for being suspiciously alive and then gets dogpiled. Of course you can call this something along the lines of arguing "too scum to be scum" but in general this one is rather confident that this play is much more town than it is scum.

Why is it so scummy for a Self-oof Bomber to not use their power? Nobody answered me last time I pointed that out. Unless scum gets outed that day it's -town to use it.

Titus has said she's pretty much going for it regardless, so of course the expectation is that she'll, true to her word, blow someone up and explode in turn. If she survives, that raises questions of how and why. It's not about if using or not using it is scummy.

See, I'd rather we not try to leash the outed Exploder. At least until we determine we eradicated all the scum pr the change targeting, that's a recipe for disaster frankly

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I have a question for Titus.
You basically claimed Neighbour BestFriend with some other weird abilities thrown in. Now, that is a role that may exists, however I don't see why you would claim something so unrealistic when saying Mason (+abilities) would be exactly equivalent. So me question is, why you did not fakeclaim Mason instead of truthtelling something very sus?
(I know there may be a Neighbour-Finder or something, so the claim is not really equivalent to Mason. But on the other hand, we were explicitly cautioned against massclaiming, so unless that was misleading I want to believe that town telling white lies like that would be encouraged if anything)

pe: yes, I have a death trigger. It's actually not entirely clear to me for what faction exactly my utility is negative. As the role is written, probably Town, however I must remark that I deeply suspect some hidden shenanigans about my role. Like I'm 80% sure that my PM is not the full truth.

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Oh, and before I forget, I don't want to vote for myself.
UNVOTE:

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Spoiler: QO

hmm.
anyone in a neighborhood know if there are any vanilla townies in this game at all?

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

@QO, quick question, binary answer please, I don't want the full explanation.
Did you have any reason, beside curiosity, to ask about the existence of VTs?

I ask 'cause it would seem to me outing the existence of a VT would normally be of greater utility for anti-town, especially since outing the existence of non-PRs would alert grouscums that they really have to aim with the nightkill. That seems incongruous with your stated reluctance to take any step to facilitate scums' PR-hunting.

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Hard to argue against a Not_Mafia wagon, but it's a redux of the McMenno wagon. Feels like random guessing

I'm trying to understand why exactly McMenno would claim interference with investigations (I hope I don't remember incorrectly here), but not delving further.
Scum investigatives would almost certainly not go investigate McMenno!town since they would know they're almost surely not lying, so I'm really struggling to understand what would the risk be in just telling us what the interference is exactly. Otherwise if, say, a Watcher or something sees them go visit someone that dies, they could just claim Gravedigger and wiggle right out of that, or if anything at all comes out that would mechanically implicate scum I'm sure they could just invent some claim to wiggle right out of that.
I'd rather they would just elect a claim to lock into.

PE: I'm ISOing them now. I'll see if I see something really fishy.

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I mean, I do not necessarily find any one post of McMenno inherently scummy, however I don't think it's fair to say they're as blank as N_M. N_M is blank and until he says something that's not a meme I refuse to believe he's not blank. McMenno did say game-related things that are clearly not-memey. In particular, they have in multiple occasions remarked that both the QO and the Ythan wagons were bad. I'm actually interested in the fact they seemed quite convinced of the badness of the Ythan wagon, I'd would very much like they would explain their read on the slot. Looking over to Ythan's postings I struggle to see where this conviction may come from

VOTE: McMenno

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It's 4 votes, right?

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Spoiler: UG

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

Or we just kill you and find out that way.

Yes, giving the mafia PR claims IS dangerous, which is why you should only claim when you're close to being eliminated.

Think of it this way: you could either waste the town's time by not claiming, therefore forcing the town to eliminate you to solve your slot and see that flip, thus causing us to have to mis-elim a townie

OR!

You can tell us your role when it becomes clear that if you do not, you will die anyway.

Like I said last post, it could be the missing piece that we need, the thing that will solve your slot and save us from having to eliminate you at all.

If you really are a power role, the mafia will probably try to kill you, which sucks. But now they'll HAVE to kill you. Like we're not going to do it for them if that claim causes us to see you as town. They'll have to use their night kill to eliminate you at that point.

It's wasting the town's time vs wasting the mafia's time. If you wanna wait until you're at L-2 or whatever that'd probably be better but just keep that in mind. A mis-elim is a waste for all of us if it can be avoided by a good claim.

@UG, can you please ELI5 the

underlined

section?
Maybe you can convince me, but I do not really agree; first off, given the game's what it is, I don't think there are very many VTs around, if there are any at all, so the assumption that scums will probably kill whomever they even suspect to be a PR don't really hold much water.
Second, it's not like the scums

have

to kill a claimed PR. In fact, if they don't claim some ultracopter type role, it may even be better to leave them alive to let us speculate further on the matter, and if they do claim ultracopter, scum may very likely fear a protective.

Now, if a claim is truly the only thing that could possibly avoid a lim, like it's E-2 + hated + intent, then yes, there's little point in saying nothing. But QO was never actually held with a gun to his head yet, and it's debatable whether or not a full claim would be warranted anyway.

Just as an aside, we have a lot of roles either completely or partially revealed. Personally I'm getting a little spooked by that. And some of the reveals were not really necessary either, and I am at least partially guilty of this too.

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Is there any particular reason you chose to vend fruit to Ranger instead of anyone else?

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Nvm, then please don't

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I REFUSE TO FLIP NOT_MAFIA

@Enchant, anything to say on this?
Refuse is a strong word. And ALL CAPS is aggressive by nature.
And you have N_M as the sole member of your town-block beside you.
If you don't think N_M is looking scummy, that's fine, I also read absolute null, but I feel straight out refusing to entertain the notion of a lim to be worthy of some veneer of explanation

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I REFUSE TO FLIP NOT_MAFIA

Yes because he's convenient cover for distracting people from you.

YES

And if this is the explanation, that frankly smells bad

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I am 100% functionally a mason. Neighbor with mod confirmation that my neighbor is town. Yes. That's a mason. Imaginality has the same thing.

I believe this is certainly closer to true, but it's still not the truth.

@Ranger, do you have some alternative explanation?
I may have reasons why I would not want to completely discount the possibility that Titus may be honest here, while at the same time her not

actually

being BestFriend as she claims. If you have a scenario in mind, I'm willing to hear it

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not george bailey.

I'm killing mcmenno or NM and if mcmenno is a wolf I'll be highly suspicious of ranger in this game.

I

am killing?
As in,

you

actually have that agency, presumably during Day?

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Hmh, lemme some time to do the reading

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@kitten, #51. Gamma did not want it outed.

@Gimli, KA was indeed, at the very least, not scummy. Notably, they were TRing Frog pretty hard in there. As for Gamma, what you're asking me is to ascertain whether or not her play in the hood is towny, which is plainly difficult for me to do given that I obviously know for certain of Gamma's alignment; that said, I will say that her play in the hood started a bit weird, and left some moves unexplained, but in general her PoV did not look like it came from scum, like at all; notably, she was quite clearly actually bothered by Frog's play D1, and I do not believe she was not genuine in that; and she did use the hood to try to find ways to play around that.

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I have a question for both @Titus and @Imaginality. It's a bit weird, and I won't explain why I'm asking, but please bear with me.

Does your rolename contain the word Informed? (I'm not asking if you're informed; I'm actually asking if your rolename actually contains that specific word.)

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watch us eat each other up while the scumteam of enchant, not mafia, mcmenno, and a couple of townlooking scums win the game

That would be quite sad. Frankly I really don't like that we're giving MN and Enchant

a lot

of wiggle room just because of their names, but at the same time I don't like the concept of policy limming utter nulls this early

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Idk, 1932, 1946, 1948 must be the most lazy attempt at survivalistic posting imaginable. Like, it's barely anything at all; it really takes this little for NM to go over the meme line?

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Can we tone down the snark a little? I literally can't ascertain whether anything you say at all should be taken seriously or not.

Also, again, why you don't want to flip N_M?

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Since this is not the first time it came up, I propose that we use UtR for under the radar and UTR for universally town-read

Also, language clarification, UtR means "hiding in the shadows" right?

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Can we tone down the snark a little? I literally can't ascertain whether anything you say at all should be taken seriously or not.

Also, again, why you don't want to flip N_M?

why i would want to flip N_M?

This is not the problem. The thing is you REFUSE TO FLIP N_M, that's much a stronger utterance than simply stating you don't think we should flip them.

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Is really that the point you're contesting?
There are things that tilt me wrong about Gimli, how they come off as manipulative using extremely charged language like repeatedly saying people ought to die, and having such read on you GtH is kind of an oof but... you're not making not looking at you as sus easy. And I'm talking also to Enchant and Not_Mafia.
In particular, N_M, please do something at all in this game. Please. Game's already likely messed up as it is, we do not need to also have a mistery box in it

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So far you have not really expressed anything of value.
Do you have any substantiated read? Or alternatively, do you have anything you want to ask to anyone?

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Yes. Everyone does.

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See, if I was in the mood for meming, I'd be voting you for lying.
Unfortunately, I am not, and you are still almost a black hole

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unfortunately that's not a power I possess, I'm just saying what sort of wagons I'll agree with for today

I'm under the impression that Gimli is not claiming a killing role.

Strange wording anyhow.

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@Not_Mafia
Why? Were you not the jester?
And given you don't like his readS, I presume you have one of {Enchant, McMenno} down as town?

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{KA, Elements, me}
This is the McMenno wagon atm, if I'm not mistaken (+ Gimli who was on it but changed to Enchant); KA was on there before M_N began being lazily survivalistic.

So you are implying, at least in the PoV that McMenno is town, that there is at least a scum in there right?

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M_N

*N_M

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Uh, it is the wagon that formed since the last VC

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So VC 2.03 {Titus, Elements, furtiveglance, imaginality} ?
Apologies, I might have given disproportionately too much weight to the things that happened while I was actively playing.

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Hey @Titus, would you kindly answer my query (or decline to, up to you)?
It was,

does your rolename contains the word Informed?

(I don't care if you are informed, you already said you are, only if that word appear in your rolename)

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@Titus
Thanks. I figured and I don't like it for reasons, but atm I believe you're being honest

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The syntax of that sentence is wonky. Did you mean "If I was NM's scumbuddy ... townread NM ..."; inserting those "you" there does not make sense

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Nvm, missed that you was N_M (for some reason it was Math in my mind and it made no sense)

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No, it's my bad, I'm bad at reading it seems

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It just really made sense to me because of what I know about past Xyzzy games.

What does this mean?

Xyzzy setups are frequently either bastard or mech complex if not both. They had a jester in one game and a scum recruiter role in another and I think you look like you’re trying to solve but ignoring things like Titus saying “mod confirmed” for example.

But if this game is anything like those other Xyzzy games I spectated, then it explains why I’m so confused so far in this game. I expect that will change once we get some flips.

@kitten, a thing you never fully explained about this is, 1034 read like it was there to justify why you found QO's post-by-post to be of value (as it was in response to Frog's 1028); however the point about xyzzy mod meta does not wield into that at all, and instead appears to wield into QO's comment about multiball which was another post entirely and should not factor into 1023.
This is weird, and I get why Frog took it as you metaforgetting along the way what you were exactly sheeping QO over.

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16. day phases do not have deadlines by default. deadlines may be implemented for day phases at my discretion.

It has not.

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Fine.
VOTE: kitten around
E-3, I think

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Really really do not like kitten's recent posts, this one thinks, not to mention everything levied against them by Lycan and CSF. It's willing to hop and vote between the bigger of KA and QO's wagons but KA might honestly be priority because eliminating likely scum in the neighborhood is probably helpful to prevent scum blabbing, even if KA probably isn't the only (most likely) scum in the hood. So... VOTE: Kitten Around

@HPE, can you direct me to some post numbers in the hood you're SRing KA over? They were consistently going against majority opinion and not SRing Frog, in fact I'd say the opposite, which strikes me as relevant but I'm not sure in which direction. Also hood#182 strikes me as kind of weird, it might be scum trying to cast the interaction as TvT and possibly fabricate frustration but idk.

UNVOTE: just to avoid the lolhammer for now. Please count me as still being on the wagon.

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I did not claim my role.
I have claimed that there is something weird that will trigger off my death.

I'm gonna help Lycanfire answering furtive's question.

VOTE: imaginify

I’d rather you vote me.

What do you think of this post?

Worth mentioning in relation to Gamma asking to be voted/limmed:

Gonna give y’all a little tip: you might not want to kill me.

I realized the exact reason why this push reeks of bullshit: it’s the same crock of shit Krazy used to pull against me. This sort of “scum!Gamma always reacts this way” comment is one I’m well-acquainted with, and one that imo ensures one of us is scum. So I think today’s vote absolutely SHOULD be between me and Frogsterking.

It’s still not wise to vote me out, unless you want a lot of deaths really fast.

I'm sure you have thoughts on this yourself. I mean, you have already noted the inconsistency

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That means Titus is likely ascetic, or she was the one redirectorized, and I didn't get somehow redirected unless the redirection only affects one action? My head hurts.

Sorry, isn't it that Element got meat? So it should be the case that your meat managed to get to Elements, which would point to a redirect rather than Titus being ascetic. What's wrong with e.g. bus driver Titus<->Elements, your meat arrived to the wrong adress and your fruit to the correct one unimpeded?
(There is also the possibility that scum may have a combined Rolestopper RoleWatcher and that Elements is scum and did some theatrics to make us believe in a BusDriver kind of thing, but idk this seems the less likely of the two)

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Two questions. Why, and why

the

?

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Uh, then I'm terribly sorry, I must have misremebered which members of the hood where already out

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And I suppose it doesn't matter anymore, given that the KA hammer went through

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Wait a godamn minute here... Would you be able to say exactly how many people are in this hood?

yes, there's 10 people who were in it to start. 8 are still alive.

Well, that the hood exists is no secret at this point.
Again, @HPE, sorry, I remembered wrongly, now I feel bad

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Ok, but why are you exactly getting bent over this now? As said, that the hood exists has been public knowledge since quite a lot of time, it's not like I just revealed it

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but the hood chose to not out its members which is neg. utility for town

if

there's at least one scum in the hood DUCY

Also what does DUCY mean?

Also the cross wasn't supposed to happen, blame me.