Game of Thrones

[AniX]

I just realized I can finally post/read this thread now that I'm officially caught up with literally everything, including the novellas.

It's as clear to everyone else as it is to me that the Azor Ahai is

Balerion, adopted son of Rhaenys Targaryen and Puss that was Promised

, right?

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Wrong. It's Ser Pounce.

Ser Pounce is the adopted son of a Lannister. That makes him a lion. He has a part to play in the prophecy, but it ain't as Azor Reborn.

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A few things I noted (Spoilers for things upcoming in the season that the trailer touched on):

- It looks like Daario is replacing Fat Belwas in the duel.

- I like that they kept in the "Jaime reads the white book scene"

- Oathkeeper seems to, at least to my sight, have a garish gold color to half of it. Not a fan.

- Someone is obviously continuing the Craster tradition of sacrificing male babies to the Others. Is that one of the Traitor Crows?

- That Viper-Mountain scene looks like it is going to be incredible, and The Viper seems to be an appropriate enough level of latino to shut up any straggling complainers.

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I don't know, absta, it seems to me the director's perception of scenes as opposed to how they actually appear is of critical importance. Sure, here, the scene works either way (though work very differently depending on what you "saw") but if a director intends a scene to appear consensual and it doesn't, in fact, appear consensual, he is NOT delivering good content because he is being a shit director. A director's whole JOB is to convey his intended message to the audience. If his message was "Jaime and Cersei have a sexual power struggle and they both consented", he failed at his directing job and it certainly is discussable.

I'm of split minds about the rape scene (and let's be clear, it was a rape) and its effects on Jaime's redemption.

On the one hand, I think we can all explicitly agree rape is bad and people who do it should feel bad. And what Jaime did was rape.

That said, how I interpreted the scene as it played out was Cersei not wanting to have sex on her son's dead body ("no, not here") and Jaime not really giving a shit ("I don't care"). While certainly still rape and certainly still egregious, it strikes me as much less "Jaime's redemption is now ruined" for him to have sex with her she would have consented to but for inappropriate location as opposed to sex she wouldn't have consented to under any circumstances.

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http://www.vulture.com/2014/04/pedro-pa ... rview.html

oh dear lord

For any of your upcoming nude scenes, do you show it all? Because we've been asking for more male nudity on the show.


Nobody asked me to hide anything. I was all in. When does Game of Thrones ever fail you in terms of like not going all the way with something? They give you candy from both sides. I'd insist upon it!

if i had ovaries they'd be going nuts right now

Man, call me when we get to see some Kingslayer cock. That's the only cock worth getting pumped for.

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It's happened once before that I can think of Rhinox, when Osha and the other wildlings attacked him on horseback. Immediately after that he was able to be seen by Maester Luwin, who is established as a maester of some skill.

I agree that it could get a bit lazy for the writers, but it was an instrument here for Bran to immediately understand that Locke was not his friend.

As well as an instrument to show Locke knew exactly who and what he was looking for.

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My favorite part of that episode was when Varys was confirmed asexual, thereby cementing him as the Prince That Was Promised, AND the Stallion That Mounts the World, AND Azor Ahai reborn. It's all confirmed.

My faith was tested, but never wavered, when others suggested the only reason he didn't have sex was because no penis. I knew in my heart that even before, he didn't like girls and boys.

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Yup that was super gross! WHEEE.

Arya cracking was awesome. The commune watched together and all of us cracked up as soon as Arya started laughing, it was great.

That whole scene was great, I was laughing the whole time. Nice bit of comic relief before all the horror. I hope she still gets to see Sansa though! I know she probably won't but it's kind of becoming a sick joke how many times she's gotten SO CLOSE to reuniting with family and then not. Maybe that's another reason her laughing can be interpreted. Not laughing at the hound's misfortune but at her own (it'd be kinda meta since she doesn't know Sansa is there).

the poor hound -_-

But it isn't really her misfortune and I think she is well aware of that. All other Arya scenes in the episode (and indeed this entire season) have shown she LIKES the path she is currently on. (The discussion of her eagerness to kill and wanting to see the light go out in her enemy's eyes, her explicit declaration she isn't a lady). Being stuck with her aunt would be the exact opposite of those statements: preventing her from killing and turning her back into a lady.

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That's too mainstream. We need more people on Team Cersei.

Or like, any of the Greyjoys.

Team Theon, right here.

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I know I am in the minority, but I guess that is a bit surprising to me. What is the appeal of Tyrion and Arya? Especially when compared to characters I find much more interesting, e.g. Varys, Littlefinger, even

Daenerys after DwD

, etc.

Daenerys after DwD

after DwD

I don't see what's so interesting in a billion chapters of "Muh waifu, muh waifu, muh waifu" and then a last chapter of "I ate something that disagreed with me".

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I guess the question is...WILL YOU ANSWER INJUSTICE WITH JUSTICE?

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Spoiler: Spoiler For People who haven't read the books

So is Aegon gone 5ever?

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Me too. GoT is a show, especially for me, that I get as much if not more watching along with everyone else as I do watching it itself.

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polyhaus watched it tonight

pretty good, though nothing on either bran or arya is a bit of a downer (but moar sansa-littlefinger is

always

good with me)

also the Margery/Loras dynamic remains really entertaining

If no Bran is something that disappoints you, this season is going to be rough for you.

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I was excited to see Alexander Siddig as Oberyn Martell's dad. I loved him in Syriana

dude. Star Trek DS9.

Spoiler: not the best picture but meh

But yes, definitely good to see a familiar face.

oh shoot. I don't watch Star Trek but that's funny

Yeah, it's great if you watched all of DS9, because he plays this overeager smug attempted-womanizing doctor, which seems to be pretty against type with how he'll be playing Martell.

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Poor dany

Yeah, it's rough being terrible at your job.

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Head Writer: "Alright, Dany's plot from DWD is already pretty tedious, and we already cut most of the interesting stuff out, but I really think if we dig deep we can really make the plot uninteresting and aimless for literally everyone."

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R+L=J confirmed last night for any keen watchers

also uhhh I was really disappointed by the Sand Snakes?

ALSO holy shit that Stannis scene with his daughter was the best part of the season so far.

Confirmed is a VERY strong word.

I mean, they certainly hinted at it, but there is by all means plenty of ways it can play out without R and L equaling J. Hell, I don't even think R + L was completely confirmed

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https://imgur.com/ZojM9ft

(spoilers for S5E4)

That's pretty unfair, considering how many people he cut through before he was overwhelmed.

[AniX]

I thought the fight itself was weak.

"Oh Dany, im gonna to conveniently go for a walk. Oh look! Harpy! I'm going to be a hero! Oh shit, i'm old and there's dozens of them. Oh thanks Grey worm for saving me a lot. Oh shit, now we're both possibly dead. #worthit"

Aside from the convenient walk, that is the exact opposite vibe I got from it.

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As a book-reader I really like the fact that the show is basically a different story at this point, and am frankly going to be a bit disappointed if they don't both come to totally different conclusions

Yes, at this point my only hope is that the books are going in an entirely different direction, because otherwise I'll go crazy reading spoilers into every big ticket thing suddenly cut from the show plot.

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Also, you guys are such Stark loyalists. I never was all that attached to the Starks that I suddenly didn't have anyone left to root for when they were cut down. I mean, I liked Ned and Robb, but they weren't essential players on my "Characters to Watch For" list. Give me Stannis, the on true Asexual King, any day.

[AniX]

except for the bit where he's not asexual at all?

It has always been clear to me he only has sex because he feels like it is his duty either to his wife (for children) or for his country (Red witch shadow magic, IF he is even having sex with her at all in the books). It is, perhaps, less clear he is on the show, given he is clearly having sex with Mels, but I have seen nothing that contradicts my view.

Here are two quotes I can recall off my head to cite:

"...he did his duty in the marriage bed once or twice a year, but took no joy in it, and the sons he had once hoped for had never come."

"Were it anyone else outside the gates, I might hope to beguile him. But this is Stannis Baratheon. I’d have a better chance of seducing his horse." (This one I recall being on the show as well)

[AniX]

Well, yes, he is definitely having sex with his wife in both show and books, but if anyone is the type to go "Well, I certainly don't WANT to do this but this is the way things are done and I have a duty" about keeping at having a male heir it is Stannis.

I mean, the asexuals who actually have had sex can answer this better than I, but it was always my belief that asexuals can still enjoy sex (since our nerve endings all still work), it just isn't something we are inclined to do unless we have a reason other than "boy oh boy, am I horny". I like the book-Stannis interaction with the Red Witch better, but I don't see necessarily a contradiction in having sex for duty and finding that sex physically pleasurable while still finding it a waste of time and something he'd have no interest in if it wasn't for the magic and divine favor he was getting out of it. He certainly has never been making the first move on the show, at the very least.

[AniX]

My inference was that Stannis didn't particularly love his love, and his relationship with her and sex with her was just related to his belief in order and duty and so on. But I guess there's no discussion of concubines for him really other than Melisandre, with whom sex has another purpose, so.

Hell, he hates people having sex not for duty so much he shut down all the brothels.

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Or maybe cause he hates Brothels and/or thinks they're just bad..?

Stannis isn't asexual, he's just hardcore.

ONE LEADS TO THE OTHER.

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=/=

Of course not, but it isn't particularly hardcore to "only fuck your wife like once or twice a year and only for a heir". That's just asexuality.

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Why is the North as green as the rest of Westeros?

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This season has quickly made me go from actually enjoying the show to kind of hatewatching/watching only to yell "THAT'S NOT HOW IT HAPPENED" at the screen.

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It's pretty dumb to get angry at it simply because it is different from the source material.

I mean, there are plenty of valid reasons to get angry or uncomfortable, so.

There are plenty of books where using the same characters in different but similar situations makes for an equivalent or even better version. This is gearing up to not be one of them. Game of Thrones, more than most books I've read, is a book heavily invested in specific plots in a specific order.

I just feel like I'm watching fan fiction of Game of Thrones rather than an adaptation of a Song of Ice and Fire and it is definitely showing in terms of quality when they divert from the main plot.

The comparison of these 2 storylines just show the problem this season has with inconsistent pacing which just drains all the air out of everything. But whats worse is that the acting is so much worse this season than in past seasons. There are some well acted moments but they are very few and far between. That Stannis and Shireen scene earier on was great. Theon's actor is absolutely killing it as Reek. Doran is good, for like the 10 seconds of screen time he's had. But the majority of whats going on is very flat. It all goes back to poor writing. And that likely comes from the fact that so much is off-book. D&D really have shown they're not very good at inventing their own stuff for GoT. And it doesn't help that they seem to think that people won't notice or care as long as there's SHOCK and DRAGONS (and RAPE, apparently).

This exactly. It's fine to go away from source if you are improving it. They 100% are not.

I don't watch this show but the rage of the rape scene is all over.
I'm just confused how a show about murder, oppression, cutting genitals off, and torture is fine, but a rape scene is awful.
Would there be less rage if the girl was killed rather than raped?

I think it's an issue of what purpose is being served. The rapes we've had this season do not exist to do anything but develop some other character's story and they are using characters (or at least one character) people care about to do it. It's lazy. I think there would be just as much rage if Sansa was killed off instead to justify Theon's rebellion, but they'd never do that because they know better than to use the death of a important main character for that purpose. They obviously have no idea they shouldn't use rape either.

[AniX]

because most viewers have never experienced that themselves. But rape is a grim reality and it strikes a sensitive nerve for some people.

Pardon me for being ignorant, but i'd wager that

most

people have never experienced rape first hand themselves.

A quick google search tells me the current statistic is upwards of 1 out of every 6 women and 1 out of every 33 men have been the victim of a rape or attempted rape. So I would wager that most of society has a close associate who has been the victim of rape or is a victim themselves.

Compare that to the murder rate, which is about 5 out of every 100,000.

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Also FUCKING CHRIST I NEED WINDS OF WINTER RIGHT NOW I DON'T WANT TO FIND OUT THESE THINGS THIS WAY

Normally I'm in a cage of rage when the show diverts from the books, but this was actually pretty alright with me, because it wasn't really spoiling anything. We already know the White Walkers are amassing a zombie army in the books. We already know they are dangerous. We gain no new information from this episode than we did from the books at the same point in Jon's story, except we get a fight scene that plays really well on TV.

Dany's "BREAKING THE WHEEL" was 3edgy5me. I think it would have played well if it was shown more as "Dany being naive and thinking she is tough when it is much more complex" and not just making Dany "badass" for the sake of being badass. It's the sort of thing I expect 90's anti-heroes to say while chomping a cigar and wearing a bandolier of pouches. I found it much more cringy than Ramsey's title drop, because at least that passed quickly and didn't have the actor chewing the scenery to deliver it.

Does anyone else think the Night King's armor looks more dornish than northman?

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Normally I'm in a cage of rage when the show diverts from the books, but this was actually pretty alright with me, because it wasn't really spoiling anything. We already know the White Walkers are amassing a zombie army in the books. We already know they are dangerous. We gain no new information from this episode than we did from the books at the same point in Jon's story, except we get a fight scene that plays really well on TV.

Well we did learn that

Valyrian steel does in fact kill Others;

which has only been hinted at in the books and not yet confirmed.

Well, yeah, but we already know that there are weapons that can kill them and the "heroes" are in possession of those weapons, so while it's great for the heroes to know it isn't a game-changing like, for example, Barry up and dying.

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What did you dislike about it? Did you dislike the other big battle scenes?

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That's the problem!

I don't mind when tv shows/movies deviate from the text as long as they at least keep the character intact. This doesn't go at all with Stannis' character.

Maybe I don't understand his character as well as you but it seemed to fit to me? He assassinated his own brother.

Yeah, but his brother was WRONG. Stannis is older than Renly, that means Stannis is next in line. What Renly was doing was, to Stannis, the ultimate act of disrespect and tantamount to open rebellion against the rightful kingdom.

Whereas the only thing Shireen did wrong was be born of Stannis' bloodline and be around when a person of that bloodline was required.

Stannis was always someone (and remains in the ONE TRUE PLOT) someone for whom good and evil are not really considerations. It has always been what is right and what is wrong. Killing pretenders is right. Killing children for tactical advantage is wrong.

The writer's room is a fucking joke at this point. They seem to believe that drama is One Parts "Badass Scene that defines the character" (Stannis and his daughter lovefest, Sansa learning to play the Game) and two parts "LOL PSYCHE THAT EARLIER SCENE WAS A WASTE OF FILM".

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They're just trying to piss off everyone now. If they think some cool scene with dragons can make up for burning a child alive, they're wrong. I couldn't even enjoy the stupid dragon scene.

Also, is it me or the Internet seemed much more shocked and upset with the Sansa rape scene than this?

I mean, the rape scene had sexism and "rape as character development for men" problems with it in addition to its terrible writing and non-book stuff. Whereas there isn't a huge IRL social issue with little kids being burned at the stake (at least ANYWHERE on par with rape of women) nor is it a prevalent plot device in the media.

Whereas here the only real objection is "This is OOC shit for Stannis" and "Not my canon!". I mean,, there is also the "THIS IS TOO FAR THIS TIME" crowd, but I have no sympathy for them. The literal first episode had a guy stop having adulterous incest with his sister to push a young child out a window.

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One person I've really warmed up to is Qyburn. His relationship with Cersei is one of my favorites, because the a creepy ex-maester Dr. Frankenstein should have nothing in common with a nobleborn Queen Regent with a chip on her shoulder, but not only do they get along, he is loyal to her even after she loses all status and is a powerless woman in a prison cell. I thought the scene where he rushes to her side with the cloak was less "Gotta suck up to the boss" and more genuine concern for her physical and emotional pain.

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I am watching under duress. I don't want to watch before I read WoW. But I don't want to hear about the plotlines on the show secondhand even less.

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A few notes:

1. I am convinced the whole Doran thing was a prank on Alexander Siddig
"Hey here is this badass role for you. Super important for the future of the books."
>Does absolutely nothing for a whole season
> Gets murdered in the first episode of the next season

2. I really connected with those bloodriders. They speak to my soul.

3. The Sansa-Brienne scene was pretty good. Too bad it will all come to naught when Stannis returns. We never see him die. We never see a body. When was the last time someone that important died on this show and is never shown a corpse?

4. Who is next in line for the Martells even? Aren't the rest of the remaining people bastards?

5. Who is the true king of Westeros now that Stannis is missing in action and Shireen is ash? Is there any Bartheons left?

6. Red Witch confirmed Ned Stark's mom.

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5. Who is the true king of Westeros now that Stannis is missing in action and Shireen is ash? Is there any Bartheons left?

It's very possibly Dany, if I remember correctly. There's some Targaryen blood a few generations back in the Baratheon line.

Yeah but surely there is a different bloodline closer to Stannis' generation.

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Doesn't Robert have a bunch of bastards? At which point does it fall on them?

Never I don't think. Legitimately at any rate. Unless Stannis had a secret legitimization decree we don't know about.

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But the Crown doesn't travel down the Lannister line legitimately. The ONLY reason Tommen is still king is there is that flimsy assertion that he is still the legitimate heir to Robert. Once they try to pass it to a Lannister even that excuse goes out the window. And if they are surrendering the pretense of it being a legitimate inheritance Cersei might as well seize the throne for herself outright.

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- Euron reminded me of evil Obi-Wan Kenobi

- Still no corpse for Stannis.

- Roose got rused.

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Also Cersei-Qyburn-Strong remains my favorite alliance on the show.

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A few notes:

1. The Qyburn-Cersei-Jaime-Strong alliance is my favorite group on the show.

2. House Clegane Basin Guaranteed!

3. Arthur Dayne is suitably badass fighting with two swords and only going down with a frogman cheapshot.

4. I can't believe

Time-travelling Bran and Selyse Baratheon

confirmed as Jon's parents.

5. RIP

Shaggydog

[AniX]

I thought the episode was good not great. A lot of important stuff was basically rushed through. The Walkers are obviously going to be the biggest bad on the show and they get an out of the blue origin story that lasts about all of one minute

And I thought the Hodor scenes just...didn't play well. It is a textbook case of a Narm scene in every scene of the word for me (in Six Feet Under I think a character has a stroke and keeps repeating "Numb Arm" which like with Hodor becomes Narm. But the scene played so unintentionally hilarious it has become a term for a supposedly serious scene that cannot be taken seriously).

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One thing that pissed me off was that Euron doesn't wear an eyepatch. It is one of those changes that improves LITERALLY nothing: It isn't expensive to have an eyepatch. It translates well to screen unlike some other distinctive appearance traits (blue hair or wacky facial hair). Any actor can wear one. It gives Euron a distinctive look. It just strikes me as deviating from the books for the sake of deviating from the books.

[AniX]

One thing that pissed me off was that Euron doesn't wear an eyepatch. It is one of those changes that improves LITERALLY nothing: It isn't expensive to have an eyepatch. It translates well to screen unlike some other distinctive appearance traits (blue hair or wacky facial hair). Any actor can wear one. It gives Euron a distinctive look. It just strikes me as deviating from the books for the sake of deviating from the books.

Didn't he wear one in the scene he murdered Balon in?

I don't believe so. He was wearing a hood but I specifically remember saying to myself "Does he not have an eyepatch?"

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Be Hype or Be Square.

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Pic related it is everyone who said it wouldn't happen:

Spoiler:

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It is obviously to King Stannis I. Since Brienne was responsible for sparing Stannis and Brienne is a sworn sword to Sansa she presumably told Sansa all about Stannis' continued life and where to find him. She clearly is keeping things from Jon so I see no reason she wouldn't do the same here (especially if Brienne revealed her yet as unknown reasons for sparing him).

And the scene RIGHT BEFORE is all about her trying to figure out whether to trust Stannis to join the fight: First interrogating Davos about Stannis and then interrogating Jon about Davos. Only after Jon vouched for Davos and Davos for Stannis did she take pen to paper. This is further strengthened by the formal nature of the letter with signature and seal. Littlefinger had already offered his support. She need not take the risk a formal decree would bring. The only one who would be swayed (even required it) by such formalities is the One True King.

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His troops are clearly the BWB and he is the new King Stoneheart.

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This Aya plot armor is getting stupid. GoT was the one show where choices matter. If your character gets into a spot where they should die they would die.

meanwhile Arya betrays a literal assassins guild
then LITERALLY strolls around openly
then LITERALLY turns her back to the world to look at an ocean
then after suffering what should have been mortal wounds defeats trained assassin with much more training than her.
and finally breaks into an assassins guide while still suffering mortal wounds

At this point she might as well go back to Winterfell because her and Ramsey are going to be the only two people left alive in the world because neither can die no matter what life throws at them.

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the weird point about that assassin guild was the fact that there were no other assassins around there.

but what mortal wounds are you talking about. it was a dagger in her stomach! you won't die if its not a critical hit.

It was multiple stab wounds to the stomach (including being twisted) from a trained assassin of the premiere assassins guild in thee world who took her by surprise. It was bleeding profusely and she took multiple falls both before and after it was stitched up by an actress whose only expertise is some of her exes also needed stitches once in a while. It seems very implausible to me that a trained assassin who literally was able to set up her attack perfectly stabbed her multiple times and managed to avoid every single vital organ in that region.

Compare to Ned Stark who got stabbed once in the leg and spent the rest of the season with a profound and disabling limp that required a walking stick and milk of the poppy to manage the pain from.

[AniX]

its not the same. if someone hit your feet you can't walk normally

if someone hit your stomach you will bleed. if you don't die becuase of blood lost or it get Infectious you won't die. if it was a dagger to heart or lungs it was a different story , but it was a dagger in stomach.

her fall in last ep (from that bridge) was a bit too much I agree as a wounded person who fell will start loosing blood rapidly and they can't just walk around in streets like that. but the way they show her crawling to a corner and then standing up normally in this ep was not unreal becuase her wounds was bundled.

the fact the assassin failed to kill her in first place was weird yeah I agree. she sucked

Yeah but the way it was bleeding indicated to me some major blood vessels were hit. And it just seems so outrageous a trained assassin stabbing the gut wouldn't hit a kidney or liver. Those are in the exact location she was being stabbed and the assassin (even if she somehow lost her Faceless Man precision) gave it multiple stabs.

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rabble rabble, I thought arya was fine.

but it sounds like I'm able to suspend disbelief and go with the plot more than some of you.

But part of the charm of Game of Thrones is that it only asks you to do that about fantasy plot elements and VERY RARELY about mundane consequences of actions.

[AniX]

I'm glad we got ANOTHER Deus Ex Machina army riding to the rescue at just the right moment when all seems lost.

Wun Wun enters Winterfell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJbC-_nWBwU&t=1m28s

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I'm glad we got ANOTHER Deus Ex Machina army riding to the rescue at just the right moment when all seems lost.

See, this didn't bother me. It's been foreshadowed multiple times, we knew that

the Vale Army had been raised and that Petyr wanted to help Sansa. More over, we saw Sansa write to the Vale 2-3 episodes prior to this battle. Finally, a Rohan saving Gondor situation is never as bad as certain other Deus Ex Machina's. There were others in this episode, like Jon being saved by the two sides of cavalry conveniently reaching him at the same time, etc, but the DEM in this episode weren't that bad and though a bit cliche, they were great television.

That said, this episode might've single-handedly brightened my outlook on the season. The Daenarys portions were surprisingly great this time around. I am a bit worried now that the show isn't bound to the books it is finally able to start pleasing the fans by showing us what we've finally wanted to see:

our heroes and loved characters finally winning, but we'll see how that goes.

I'm sure 75% of the entire seasons budget went into this episode too.

That is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I want to see. I'm sick of happy endings.

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That is exactly the OPPOSITE of what I want to see. I'm sick of happy endings.

Not very common in GoT... not to mention it's a bit weird to want endings shrouded in misery.

Exactly. That's what makes Game of Thrones special and to me interesting. There is no plot armor. There is no guarentee of a happy ending. Consequences matter. Only they don't if they are too evil to die before a big hero takes you down or you are that big hero.

[AniX]

I imagine Dorne will show up again, given the massive hard on GRRM has for Ariane in the books. Hopefully very cut down though.

If you believe the Reddit spoilergate which has been pretty accurate so far

they will show up next episode. Probably as additions to Dany's army IMO.

I've not watched it yet, I spoiler myself because my Facebook feed can't take a dose of STFU so I tend to Youtube the critical moments and then wait to watch the box set with hubby. It actually does feel like things are progressing to a conclusion now in all the plotlines. I feel more confident 14 episodes will do this.

What does everyone think of the High Sparrow theory?

Which is that High Sparrow is Howland Reed, and that's how the reveal of R+L=J happens?

Regarding your second spoiler:

That sounds extremely unlikely. Reed doesn't even worship the Faith of the Seven let alone knows enough about it to create an entire false identity about it. Besides that would be the second biggest asspull to pull off the BIGGEST asspull and I'd probably stop watching the show honestly if they did that.

[AniX]

Probably an element of that too, but I don't think it will look as exciting if you don't also have a big armies fighting each other.

Well, she did just propose

burning down entire cities and crucifying human beings

. If that isn't morally wrong or indicative of a character getting the wrong ideas / beginning to lean to a villain then idk what is.

I don't think that's a sign of evil, it's just her hot-headedness and desire for vengeance against the slave masters. And it allows Tyron to make the comparison to her father.

Evil isn't something you are it is something you do/try to do/support. If your hot-headedness and desire for vengeance would drive you to do evil things then you are evil.

[AniX]

I think wanting to actively crucify people is much more evil than being a bad general.

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Cersei

has just become the best character on the show. She has single-handily saved Westeros from the grip of practically all her enemies and did it dressed like someone who is in the business of saving Westeros.

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Finally the One True Queen of Westeros is on her rightful throne: Next step quelliing this bastard revolt in the North and then handling this Kelly C nonsense from the east whose council is solely 2 eunuchs (one of which apparently teleports), a midget, and a lesbian.

[AniX]

I have to say it feels real good for my team (Team One True) to be the winning side for once. I invested years of my life into Stannis only for him to ambiguously go missing having never sat the Throne. Now his true and right heir Cersei has taken her rightful place.

[AniX]

All the North has to do is kneel before the One True Queen and all will be fine after Sansa and Jon are executed for treason.

[AniX]

..what?

What part confuses you?

[AniX]

..what?

What part confuses you?

If you're referring to Cersei, she's powerless to do anything to the North or Vale, and if you're talking about Dany, she wouldn't kill them.

Cersei the Golden has the forces of Westerlands and at least one unstoppable zombie. I'm sure The Mountain wasn't some sort of unique specimen. If Qyburn can revive him he can revive others and march a zombie army. To say nothing of the other tricks they have up their sleeve.

[AniX]

Cersei the Golden has the forces of Westerlands and at least one unstoppable zombie. I'm sure The Mountain wasn't some sort of unique specimen. If Qyburn can revive him he can revive others and march a zombie army. To say nothing of the other tricks they have up their sleeve.

Well Jon and Sansa have the North and the Vale to defend them, and have historically impregnable chokepoints, the Neck and the Bloody Gate.

More importantly, Cersei is about to get destroyed by the combined might of the Tyrells and the Martells. Daenary's is also about to arrive in Westeros. I estimate that her "reign" will be short but eventful. An army of Mountain zombies also sounds dumb, no offence, since it took

weeks

or something to transform Gregor. Making an army at that rate is literally fantasy. Not to mention we don't know the specifics behind the experiment, and it's possible Gregor becoming a super zombie was only possible because a man of his size and strength was able to endure the procedure.

It was my assumption that it took that long because Qyburn was largely still experimenting. Now that he knows what worked and how it worked he should be able to speed up the procedure. Even if it takes weeks she has the luxury of time. Dany is going to take forever to reach Westeros and The North is going to have her hands full fighting Snow-zombies from further North especially when they find a way to go full Reagan and tear down the wall. The North will be fighting a war on two sides (both of which are employing zombies) long before Cersei does.

[AniX]

Cersei the Golden has the forces of Westerlands and at least one unstoppable zombie. I'm sure The Mountain wasn't some sort of unique specimen. If Qyburn can revive him he can revive others and march a zombie army. To say nothing of the other tricks they have up their sleeve.

Well Jon and Sansa have the North and the Vale to defend them, and have historically impregnable chokepoints, the Neck and the Bloody Gate.

More importantly, Cersei is about to get destroyed by the combined might of the Tyrells and the Martells. Daenary's is also about to arrive in Westeros. I estimate that her "reign" will be short but eventful. An army of Mountain zombies also sounds dumb, no offence, since it took

weeks

or something to transform Gregor. Making an army at that rate is literally fantasy. Not to mention we don't know the specifics behind the experiment, and it's possible Gregor becoming a super zombie was only possible because a man of his size and strength was able to endure the procedure.

It was my assumption that it took that long because Qyburn was largely still experimenting. Now that he knows what worked and how it worked he should be able to speed up the procedure. Even if it takes weeks she has the luxury of time. Dany is going to take forever to reach Westeros and The North is going to have her hands full fighting Snow-zombies from further North especially when they find a way to go full Reagan and tear down the wall. The North will be fighting a war on two sides (both of which are employing zombies) long before Cersei does.

I don't think you realise that even if you were right, the North is literally the last thing she should care about. She actually, physically, can't give a shit if she has Tyrell and Martell armies marching on her from the south and the west while Daenary's lands on the eastern coast. She actually has no choice but to just let the North be.

That is correct if Cersei was thinking logically or tactically. I don't know if that is the case. Cersei has lost everyone she ever loved (and is about to lose Jaime). Cersei cared about winning the Game and she has. I don't think she is overly concerned with keeping it so much as using to stick it to all her enemies. That includes the Dorne bastards (and old Lady Tyrell if she finds out her involvement in poisoning Tommen) but it also definitely includes Sansa Stark. Dany is really the least of her concerns.

Don't count out the Iron Islands either. Dany is sailing with the rebels and Uncle Euron is probably going to have some objections to that. I'm sure Good Queen C would be more than happy to give all of the Riverlands back to the Iron Islands as it was in the days of Black Harren if he'll lend his men to the cause.

[AniX]

Can you fail at something you aren't trying to do?

[AniX]

when with walkers start going south , he will have

To get South they have to go through his backyard first though. Why would he let them pass only to ride South to stop them later.

[AniX]

How long before a dragon dies and Hand of the Queen Master of Whispers High Septon Grandmaester Qyburn revives it?

[AniX]

Archmaester Qyburn was in it for literally like 2 seconds in the background with no lines. Why did I even bother watching?

[AniX]

There hasn't really been anyone interested in it/time to get it. Stannis lost while Cersei was sitting in prison/Jaime was out of town and the Kingdom was de facto in the hands of the High Sparrow, who really had no aims on conquest. I don't know if he even knew of Dany coming or, if he knew, that he cared. The North/Littlefinger's Eyrie was too far away AND in the Middle of a Civil War AND preparing to fight the Night King. Dorne WANTS Dany at this point or at least doesn't mind her. The Reach was under the Sparrow's thumb until he died and, since then, basically had its entire royal family wiped out and is full isolationist.

This season opens literally the day after Cersei blew up basically everyone of consequence in King's Landing but her, Qyburn, and Ser Strong and it's clear she doesn't have a strong enough army to challenge Dany directly (hence the Iron Islands alliance).

[AniX]

This season opens literally the day after Cersei blew up basically everyone of consequence in King's Landing

I'm not sure that's entirely clear. Or if that is when it starts, the events of last seasons last episode didn't happen anywhere close to each other chronologically.

I don't know how you could get the impression, unless you think Jaime waited days/weeks to finally have a conversation about their son committing suicide and them having no allies left. Those both seem like priority conversations he'd have as soon as possible after he arrived.

[AniX]

I don't know how you Dany stans managed to watch the rest of the episode through the tears caused by the Da Vinci of Westeros Qyburn, who mange to find the time between literally curing death itself and being practically every important job in King's Landing to design and order the construction of a giant dragon killer crossbow.

[AniX]

Dany's allies are being taken off the board at a rapid rate.

[AniX]

This marks the beginning of Cersei's downfall.

Team Cersei: **systematically eliminates all enemies of the Crown, with a distinct plan for how to stop the last one**

Reck: "How will Cersei recover? It's all over!"

[AniX]

Oh yeah, I posted in this thread before I left.

Things I Hate: The People Who Still Think GoT's Writing Is Good "movement"

My relationship with the show's writing at this point in a nutshell:

eh, I really don't think the writing is that bad.

It's overwrought in some places, for sure. It's cheesy. But I think there are plenty of bright spots in the writing, too. The characterization, in particular, is fantastic and gives these actors some great shit to work with. Alfie Allen needs a fucking Emmy.

The show is still top-notch on a technical, production, and acting level in general. However, on a writing level, it is abysmal. They have botched entire characters (Sansa, every single Lannister sibling, Jon). But discarding "book purity", the show has suffered from serious plot chasms since seaosn 5 in particular that have only intensified over time.

I think you yourself addressed several in your most recent post on the most recent episode.

It's stuff like this:

* During the tail end of season 5, Jon Snow and several Night's Watch brothers and Wildlings showed up at Hardhome

by boat

to rescue other Wildlings. They partially succeeded, and fought a pretty neat battle sequence in the process. Jon and several Night's Watch brothers, among others, survived this battle and witnessed the real existence of the White Walkers. By the beginning of the next episode, Jon & co. disembarked from their boats (despite the existence of Eastwatch-by-the-Sea which was explicitly mentioned in S7E1 at the latest) and traveled 150 miles inland to the gate at Castle Black, in the middle of winter, with White Walkers on their tail, and entirely reliant upon the dutiful instincts of Ser Alliser Thorne to survive. Ser Alliser, of course, let Jon and thousands of Wildlings through the Wall. Ser Alliser, with other conspirators, then proceeded to assassinate Jon for letting Wildlings through the Wall, this despite the existence of several credible witnesses to the existence of the White Walkers being close at hand. This is

never explained

.

* When Euron is elected King of the Iron Isles, Yara & Theon go off and steal a bunch of their ships. A Drowned Man explicitly says they have stolen their "best ships". Euron then instructs the Ironborn - who are raiders precisely because their home islands lack natural resources beyond iron - to construct "a thousand ships". With what timber, one might wonder? Well,

certain viewers

scanned maps of Westeros and found a convenient forest across the bay in the Riverlands. But this makes one wonder how the Ironborn harvested said timber with ships they didn't have in lands that weren't theirs. I guess the inhabitants of said lands had no problem with people who they were at war with for several years coming along and taking all of their trees. This is

never explained

. Euron then proceeds to, instead of going along with his original plan of wooing Daenerys, woo Cersei instead.

* The Sand Snakes - who are all explicitly bastards - are able to murder their trueborn kinsmen and usurp the throne of Dorne and no one cares. This is the first sign that rules have been

entirely

discarded from this universe as of season 6. In fact, Dorne doesn't seem to exist in the show beyond Sunspear.

* Cersei is able to usurp the Iron Throne with absolutely no legitimate claim - after blowing up the head of the chief religion of the continent in the continent's holiest temple, along with sending an entire great house to extinction - and no one cares. In fact, she seems to have full popular support after this happens as of the most recent episode. Also, the last time a monarch

threatened

to extinguish entire great houses, it triggered the largest rebellion in Westerosi history and overthrew a 300-year dynasty - I guess, um, ignore that now, even if we cite it in the most recent episode. Also the last time a monarch executed a lord paramount their bannermen joined the heir in open rebellion - but I guess since season 6 fealty means absolutely nothing and all nobles are out for themselves in the stupidest way possible. Also Cersei blew up the Pope in the Vatican and somehow still enjoys full popular support (???)

The show literally operates entirely on writer fiat rather than any real suspension of disbelief. It's a travesty, really.

Oh also the whole "I guess no one in hundreds of years found out you can cure Greyscale by cutting off the infected flesh" bullshit was fucking hilarious. Or, if you'd rather, "I guess no one in hundreds of years outside of two dudes read a book that accurately explained how to cure Greyscale".

My impression (especially after the Queen of Thorns exchange this past ep) was the official line is it is a tragic accident. You have to remember while the main characters (and the audience) know Cersei is a legitimate psychopath, most people don't. All they see is a woman who had to watch her husband and all of her children die but had the strength to hold the realm together and protect them (recall that as much as they don't know Cersei is a bad person they don't know Dany is a good person. All they see is the daughter of someone KNOWN to be a psychopath showing up with barbarians, an unstoppable kill force, and literal monsters).

[AniX]

It's like after 9/11 when Bush went from "unpopular leader elected under shady circumstances" to "American hero who will personally protect us with his own fists from terrorism" literally overnight. Fear breeds support.

[AniX]

You don't think eliminating/mitigating all of Dany's military allies is progress?

[AniX]

It's only regression if Dany is going to succeed in the end. You are basing your opinion on the season from what you think will happen 1.5 seasons from now.

[AniX]

It's only regression if Dany is going to succeed in the end. You are basing your opinion on the season from what you think will happen 1.5 seasons from now.

I'm going to spoiler this just in case

It is exceedingly obvious that Dany is going to win and Jaime is going to kill Cersei.

This is only partially gleaned from the addition of book context.

Which makes it extra-baffling why they cut the

valonqar

line from the prophecy.

If you say so. There were plenty of exceedingly obvious in both book and show that never came to pass.

[AniX]

I did.

Spoiler: HYPER-SPOILERS AHEAD

Did you catch the name of the anti-dragon weapon? Qyburn's Scorpion. I wonder if that name has any meaning given the inventor is a poison-savvy guy who was even explicitly lampshaded as poison-savvy last episode...

[AniX]

This marks the beginning of Cersei's downfall.

Team Cersei: **systematically eliminates all enemies of the Crown, with a distinct plan for how to stop the last one**

Reck: "How will Cersei recover? It's all over!"

#tbt

A few dead men are well worth poisoning a dragon.

[AniX]

I can't wait for Qyburn to see a wight.

[AniX]

Might be helpful for you to post the link: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... ml?mcubz=1

[AniX]

[AniX]

yeah, rhino, i was wondering that too.

also

Spoiler:

I think the night king is a targaryen. he walks through fire and can control a zombie dragon. ueah, he is a targaryen.

I don't understand what arya plans to do with sansa. also can brienne just step on peter baelish and put every1 out of their misery. god the guy is gross.

Unlikely. The Night King was created from a First Man, while Targs are Valyrians. He was created to help protect the Children of the Forest from mankind, which place him before the Pact between them and no less than 10,000 years before the first Targ came to Westeros.

[AniX]

yeah, rhino, i was wondering that too.

also

Spoiler:

I think the night king is a targaryen. he walks through fire and can control a zombie dragon. ueah, he is a targaryen.

I don't understand what arya plans to do with sansa. also can brienne just step on peter baelish and put every1 out of their misery. god the guy is gross.

Unlikely. The Night King was created from a First Man, while Targs are Valyrians. He was created to help protect the Children of the Forest from mankind, which place him before the Pact between them and no less than 10,000 years before the first Targ came to Westeros.

Spoiler:

did the targaryens spring up independently from the first men? if they did, then what makes the first men the "first" men? the night king wld explain the significant exchanges between him and jon snow (how they looked at each other), jon's return from the dead and drogon's reaction to jon. I think a dragon, even a zombie dragon, only follows a targaryen. the night king seemed to know that he cld revive it and can control it. I don't think just any white walker cld do that.

Spoiler:

The First Men, as a title for a group, seems to refer to the ethnic group that originally traveled from Essos through the landbridge (later destroyed by the Children) of Dorne into Westeros. They are the First Men only so much as they were the first men in Westeros, not that they were the original ethnic group all other humans emerged from. They populated all of Westeros until the Andals, a different ethnic group, arrived and conquered the area, leaving the First Men only really left in the north. It was only around 4,000 years after that the first Targ, a Valyrian (as were all Dragonlord houses) arrived in Westeros.

I think it is far more likely the King thought he could revive and control it because he has the power to revive and control any living thing.

[AniX]

one episode would have Catlyn telling Brienne to take Jaime and the next episode they'd be at King's Landing

might happen all in one episode even


Also, kinda disappointed they haven't even mentioned theon/yara/euron the last 2 episodes. In 704 Theon wanted to ask dany for help rescuing yara. I get 706 was primarily a north/beyond the wall episode, but there's no reason they couldn't have fit in a quick discussion between theon and dany in 705 to set up whatever resolution of that plotline they have planned for the finale.

And I wish the growing relationship between dany and jon was done better. Up until the scene on the boat the only indication there was any "spark" between them was because other characters had to keep telling us, pretty much breaking the number 1 rule of storytelling (show don't tell). It still doesn't feel like there is any sort of romantic interest between them. Now it seems more like mutual admiration and respect. Doesn't really seem any different than how tyrion and dany felt about each other when dany named him hand.

I feel like the progression of their romance seems very unnatural and rushed. I am not sure if this is because the writers removed dany as a relatable character or what. I only understood that there was a "spark" in the cave between 2 pple alone in it cos the writers explained it after the episode. it just seems forced.

I kinda feel like that is what is going on with sansa and arya. arya knowing that joffrey was a sadist shld give insight into why sansa wanted ned to confess and not face execution. ned was executed anyway and both sansa and arya wanted joffrey dead. they both had to do what they needed to do to survive.

that doesn't make sansa anymore likeable tho, I mean she is falling for the whole bad guy thing AGAIN.

but I don't like that the writers are having to explain what ought to make sense within the story itself in the first place.

Spoiler:

I didn't even shed a tear when viserion died. it was like "oh yeah that was expected" and yet there are so many things that have been expected that drew forth an engaged emotion, and I am trying to figure out why this episode fell completely flat.

@ani - I think the night king is gonna be either a targaryen or a stark. I have ruled out stark.

and you haven't explained why the nk was able to walk through fire or the dragonkilling spear.

nk is in the know moreso than any of the living characters.

also MORE BERIC AND HIS FLAIMING SWORD PLZ

Spoiler:

Because only two things can kill a White Walker: Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel. Fire is not only that list. You couldn't kill the regular white walkers with it either and they are just random baby wildlings grown up.

I don't really see how being able to create an ice spear or knowing things is a trait unique to Targs. Is Qyburn a secret Targ too? Is Varys? Even if he WAS a Targ (he isn't), he'd know things on the basis of being a magic king of a magic race created by fey with futuresight, not happening to be a Targ. Starks are the house with psychics, not Targs.

[AniX]

There is a pretty big difference between killing your enemies in battle and executing prisoners of war if they refuse to switch sides, especially when they haven't really done anything to you personally.

[AniX]

Spoiler:

Because only two things can kill a White Walker: Dragonglass and Valyrian Steel. Fire is not only that list. You couldn't kill the regular white walkers with it either and they are just random baby wildlings grown up.

I don't really see how being able to create an ice spear or knowing things is a trait unique to Targs. Is Qyburn a secret Targ too? Is Varys? Even if he WAS a Targ (he isn't), he'd know things on the basis of being a magic king of a magic race created by fey with futuresight, not happening to be a Targ. Starks are the house with psychics, not Targs.

Spoiler:

there is this:



wights can die by fire. and I think certain white walkers can too. it is why the night king walking through fire and controlling a zombie dragon are significant.

are you saying that the night king is a stark? I can get behind this cos the night king seems to hold a special interest in the stark children. I just think he is a targaryen.

Spoiler:

Wrights can (in fact they secrete an oil like substance thats makes them especially susceptible to it) but WW can't. That's why Sam's discovery of dragonglass working is so significant. Otherwise they'd just have aimed for the walkers during the battle and killed the wrights by the dozens with a single blow.

I'm not saying it is a Stark but I am saying it is possible for him to be (unlike a targ). It is worth noting BOOK SPOILER:

There is a character in the books called the Night's King who was a Stark who slept with a white walker and declared himself King of the Wall before being struck down by a colition lead by the North whose final fate is unknown. The timeline doesn't match up though, because technically the Starks as a house as such didn't exist during the original war when the Night King was created but they could fudge that up a bit if they wanted to

[AniX]

okay so ....

definitely thought jaime was donezo. in fact, why wasn't he? cersei told the mountain to do it, why didn't he?
what exactly was the point in littlefinger? I mean like, I get he was undone by his own protege which is NEAT and all but for the entirety of the story to be caused by his manipulations and for him to just go out like that seemed like a weak ending for a power player.
the whole meeting was a bit of a letdown, mostly due to the fact the plan to capture a wight made little sense anyway. and then we get the meeting and literally nothing happens. cersei still confirmed the best player of the game but like, it felt like going around your elbow to get to your asshole. i suppose it gives cersei a slight advantage because now they're unprepared for her surprise attack.
arya/sansa pretending was expected but a couple problems: 1) if you have to have your characters act completely out of character for several episodes just to pull a "gotcha" on the audience, it's bad writing ...and 2) why were they pretending even in scenes where the audience was the only observer? it's really shitty sleight of hand

that being said... predictions for the final season!

Spoiler:

- all 3 dragons are gonna die fighting the WW (redshirt Rheagal probably dies first and hero Drogon kills zombie Viserion)
- grey worm & gendry & unsullied & dothraki die in the WW war.
- jon winds up killing dany to forge Lightbringer and become Azor Ahai which enables him to defeat the NK
- theon goes to rescue Yara from Euron, he and Yara self-sacrifice to blow up Euron's boats and kill the Golden Company
- cersei gets pissed about the golden company and marches lannister army north planning to blindside jon/dany.
- arya kills jaime then uses his face to kill cersei, fulfilling the prophecy.
- lannister army going north brings the mountain north and the hound finally kills the mountain then dies.
- jon aka aegon (sp?) has his truth revealed, isnt a stark, assumes iron throne. tyrion is his hand, varys the maester of whispers. probably missandei is there somewhere.
- sansa reigns in winterfell.
- bronn dies in a moment of true selflessness trying to save someone.
- brienne dies dueling Wight-Tormund.
- sam is archmaester and writes A Song of Ice and Fire.
- bran probably dies doing some weird warging shit.

Spoiler: season 8 body count

dead: all 3 dragons. dany. yara. theon. euron. grey worm. cersei. jaime. bronn. brienne. night's king. grey worm. unsullied. dothraki. hound. mountain. gendry. bran.
living: jon. arya. sansa. tyrion. varys. missandei. sam. uhhh podrick, fine.

Did I miss anyone?

Qyburn.

[AniX]

[AniX]

Not enough Qyburn

[AniX]

I hope it's not true. It would be extremely silly and WHAT-A-TWISTY that someone who has never shown to even have been to Braavos let alone mastered a high-level assassin technique uses it to fake his death to both other characters and the audience.

[AniX]

His great grandfather was some random sellsword who happened to live in Braavos, but that's hardly the same thing.

[AniX]

If anyone is inclined, I made us a League in Throne Fantasy (https://thronefantasy.com/) under the code S9JNVV. It is literally fantasy sports with Game of Thrones: You draft characters (as well as predict events like who will wind up on the throne and how many chickens will be eaten, etc.) and then after the episode the app updates and you get points.

[AniX]

bitly wont work

Fixed

[AniX]

God, that Sam plot armor just took me straight out of the show. He had no reason to be on the battlefield IC or OOC. They could have put him in the crypt to ZERO change in the story. He did nothing while he was there except for get attacked multiple times yet somehow mirculously survive despite the fact stronger, better warriors getting attacked even once the same exact way died.

[AniX]

I also prefer the politicking aspect. It is just that, if that was the plan all along, I wish they hadn't invested so much plot time into the White Walker menace if they were not going to actually give it the ending they were heavily dropping clues for.

[AniX]

Spoiler:

How long before a dragon dies and Hand of the Queen Master of Whispers High Septon Grandmaester Qyburn revives it?

[AniX]

all other things aside, Qyburn's death is the best thing in this entire series

I agree, but not for the reasons you likely do but because it finally establishs Qyburn and Cersei as the purest relationship in the 7 Kingdoms. They have NO other ties but what they made for themselves: They aren't related, they aren't in love and neither are attracted to each other, they aren't even connected by class. She is a daughter of a high lord, wife to a king, mother to kings, and most importantly Queen in her own right. He is a defrocked maester who doesn't even have a last name. Yet he was consistently loyal to her, even when she was at her lowest and even when she had nothing to offer: He raced to put a cloak on her after her walk of shame, he stood by her when it looked like she would be executed by the High Sparrow, and he extended his hand when their world was literally crumbling. Many people were jerking themselves off to the notion he was this grand manipulator who stuck around because he needed a patron for his experiments and would betray her once he no longer benefitted. Yet here he stuck around. He could have fled (WITH his zombie) carrying all the experiments Zomountain could carry and would have survived to scheme another day. Nobody would have even judged him. Instead he stuck around in a castle being destroyed around him just to try and keep his friend, his queen, safe.

Even his last moments he made a show of loyalty, where this 5'5", 100 pounds wet, soft spoken hunched-over elderly man gets in the face of a 7'0" tall zombie muscle monstrosity just because he was worried Cersei was going to get hurt otherwise. I see many people trying to play it as an arrogant Frankenstein getting destroyed by his creation. But Qyburn is humble to a fault. He never brags, when someone compliments him he deflects, he never loses his temper or even raises his voice. Yet so many people have decided that he, who was only in a falling castle out of love, decided the apocalypse with a murderer standing in front of them was the perfect time to have a dick measuring contest with the Mountain? No, he went out exactly as he came in despite everyone doubting him: Loyal to Cersei and acting to protect her, despite literally everyone expecting otherwise.

[AniX]

He died a hero out of the pure love of trust and admiration.

[AniX]

[quote="In post 4632

He died a hero out of the pure love of trust and admiration.

I think you are romanticizing Qyburn a bit. He came from nothing and had no where else to go. I think saving Cersei came from pure self-interest and I am sure most people hated him as much as Cersei at this point.[/quote]

What exactly is the self-interest in staying in castle literally falling apart with a queen literally being deposed? Qyburn is no fool. He knew that her BEST bet was to become a "queen" in exile and her likely bet was to be executed or die to the siege. Nobody really cares about him, certainly not as a dragon attacks the city. He knew the Queen had no plan and he stayed. Why? He could have left before the battle even STARTED. He could have never come back when he heard the fleet burned. Or the scorpions burned. Or the army submitted. But he continued sticking around. Why?

And look at this: This is an elderly man, 100 pounds wet and 5'5'', extending his own body over his Queen while the ceiling caves in. What possible gain does he have here? It isn't like Cersei is going to turn to the only person who stayed with her and say "You didn't protect my head, so you are fired."





He had no reason to do this EXCEPT he cared about her to put himself in-between her and a threat. And then he did it again. He didn't order from the back. He stepped FORWARD between the disobeying Mountain and Cersei.

[AniX]

@ ani

fair point! but I don't think Qyburn could have made it out of the city without Cersei. I think that humility and love are not necessarily mutually exclusive from self-interest motivation.

Sure, I just don't see any self-interest in anything he did in the last episode. And I also don't see how getting out of the city is IMPROVED by being with Cersei. Cersei was the person with the biggest target on her back. Qyburn is someone most people probably don't even know what he looks like and certainly aren't going to stop fleeing to apprehend for no reason. Cersei has no specialized knowledge of how to escape the city. Qyburn is the Master of Whispers who, at his peak, had an army of children spies who obeyed his orders (recall his murder of Pycelle). What exactly does escaping with Cersei bring to the table?

[AniX]

Reminder that Dany never sat the Throne (she was never even crowned!) and nobody ever will again so Cersei's reign as Queen of the Iron Throne is ETERNAL.

Sam has literally one link in his maester chain, how the fuck is he grandmaester of anything? Literally the worst kind of nepotism.

There is zero percent chance Jon just walks out of a city filled with angry Dothraki after he killed their Khaleesi. It stretches credibility he rotted in jail for weeks.

The whole Bran vote is weird. Are you telling me the North gets to put one of their own on the Throne to rule EVERYONE else and then opt out and nobody else had a problem with this? Riverlands and Veil, sure, they obviously showed no real desire to be independent and Bran is their nephew/cousin so it is a decent deal for them. The Reach is decimated and Bronn has power to say no since he only BECOMES Lord Paramount if he is in the Realm (Nobody there is going to follow him otherwise) so that's fine. But the Ironborn? Dorne? They are just going to let some random-ass Northerner child rule them while the North itself leaves and not even debate the notion of leaving too?

It wasn't even a bad episode. It just...had a lot of handwave stuff where they just want you to go with it.

[AniX]

1. Qyburn 2. King Stannis I 3. Cersei

[AniX]

LOCK. HIM. UP!