2017 NFL Football
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No way Romo goes to KC. They are satisfied with Alex, and he just came off one of the best years of his career.-
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I think we're getting slightly carried away with all the Romo love. "Romo makes THIS team a Superbowl contender". Romo hasn't completed a full season in 5 years. Temper yourselves.-
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Superbowl contenders tend to already have quality QBs and won't need Romo. KC being one of them.-
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Why did the Saints want to trade Cooks so badly?-
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What makes someone more likely to things that break the rules in Vegas that they cannot do in any other city in the country? You're telling me a practice squad player can't gamble in Green Bay? Do you think a player can't hire a prostitute in Tallahassee?-
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Romo doesn't have the stats to back up a Hall of Fame bid. He could get in the Hall in a weak class, but I don't think he'll get there.-
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Aikman also had Emmitt Smith in a run-first offense.-
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Let's do it, put your final mock draft here! If you have any comments, go for it. I originally intended only to comment on a few teams, but ended up commenting on most of the teams.
1. Browns - DE Myles Garrett
I know a lot of people are putting Trubisky here, but I think they ride with Kessler and Co. My bold prediction is that the Browns don't take a QB in the first 3 rounds.
2. 49ers - QB Mitch Trubisky
Unlike other QB needy teams in the draft, this is the only team without even a stop gap option on the roster, so they are taking a QB no matter what (even if Browns decide to throw away Garrett for one).
3. Bears - S Malik Hooker
I don't think any other QB is a 1st round pick, so Bears will take the best player at a position of need and not reach.
4. Jags - DL Jonathan Allen
Taking the best player available, and this is an RB rich draft, they can get one later.
5. Titans - CB Marshawn Lattimore
I think the Titans trade this pick, but whoever ends up with it has Lattimore as the best player on the board. Although leapfrogging the Jets to prevent their next pick is possible too.
6. Jets - QB DeShaun Watson
The Jets shouldn't take a QB...but they probably will take Watson if he's on the board. I think they should get some pieces and give Petty and Hackenburg a real shot with quality players around them, as opposed to drafting Watson so he can also fail in their offense.
7. Chargers - RB Christian McCaffery
He is more like the types of RBs the Chargers do well with, Darren Sproles and Danny Woodhead come to mind.
8. Panthers - RB Lenard Fournette
This is a good fit for the Panthers I think.
9. Bengals - DT Solomon Thomas
They need a big DT, so here they go.
10. Bills - S Jamal Adams
Best player on the board, they take him.
11. Saints - LB Rueben Foster
Best player blah blah blah.
12. Browns - DT Taco Charlton
Best player blah blah blah...still no QB pick.
13. Cardinals - CB Sidney Jones
Cards get the successor to Peterson.
14. Eagles - DE Haason Reddick
There are a couple of DE types on the board here, but I think Reddick being a local kid tips the scales in his favor.
15. Colts - OT Ryan Ramczyk
They need to take a (few) Tackle(s) or Luck is going to die this season.
16. Ravens - WR Mike Williams
I think with the focus on defense early in the draft it'll leave someone like Williams to go to the Ravens. We desperately need a #1 target, and Williams seems like that type of player. I could also see us trading down and collecting a late first and another 2nd. That would probably be best if Williams isn't on the board.
17. Redskins - LB Jabrill Peppers
Best player, blah blah blah.
18. Titans - WR Corey Davis
Mariota needs more weapons if the Titans are going to take a weak AFC South.
19. Bucs - DT Caleb Brantley
Best player blah blah blah
20. Broncos - OL Cam Robertson
I really like his versatility, so an OL needy Broncos will like it too.
21. Lions - DT Malik McDowell
Best player, blah blah blah
22. Dolphins - OT Forrest Lamp
Best player, blah blah blah
23. Giants - RB Dalvin Cook
The Gnats desperately need an RB to compete with the Cowgirls, so I think they take one here, despite needs at other positions, because the top players will be off the board at this point.
24. Raiders - DE Derek Barnett
Best player, blah blah blah
25. Texans - QB Patrick Mahomes
The Texans should not take Mahomes (and really, no one should) but I'm sure they've convinced themselves that they need to take him because he's a Texas guy, and he has the ability to throw a 70 yard 50-50 jump ball. My 2nd bold prediction is someone is getting fired because of this selection at the end of the season.
26. Seahawks - OT Garett Bolles
Although the Seahawks have a history of surprising everyone with a sleeper pick, I think this is the type of player the Seahawks would pick.
27. Chiefs - LB Zach Cunningham
Although I don't think Deshon Kizer (as he is my #2 QB overall) is out of the question as the heir to Alex Smith, but Cunningham is the best player on the board at this point.
28. Cowgirls - CB Marlon Humphrey
Cowgirls will take the best DB on the board.
29. Packers - DE Tim Williams
That defense needs help to balance out Rodgers, Pack needs to start working on it.
30. Steelers - LB Ryan Anderson
Steelers probably start trying to make their defense elite again.
31. Falcons - TE OJ Howard
A lot of people have Howard going really high, but I think most teams have more pressing needs elsewhere. Falcons already have a pretty scary team, why not try to win now by giving Ryan another weapon?
32. Saints - CB Tre'Davious White
A pick I imagine is traded away (maybe someone grabs Kizer here), but if not, Saints take the best DB available to them.-
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What part of best player, blah blah blah did you not understand lol?
I'm not really up and up on who's who in college prospects, but I think projections have Jones ready for pre-season.-
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Wow, 5 skill position players in the Top 10. When was the last time that happened?
Wow, people are going to lose their jobs in KC over this trade and pick.-
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Chiefs traded up to take Mahomes, who is extremely over-rated because he can throw jump balls really, really far.
Ironically, in many ways, he is the exact opposite of Alex Smith, who can't throw beyond the line of scrimmage. Although Smith is smart, has great footwork, and great pocket awareness so...-
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CB was a position of need, but can't say I'm excited about Humphrey when Allen, Foster, and Robinson are still on the board. But, hey we need an elite CB, hopefully he becomes it.-
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Do you think Alex Smith had de ja vu nightmares last night?-
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I actually felt Kizer was the #2 QB in this class, so in a vacuum, the Browns did well to not use a 1st Rounder on him. But no QB from this class is going to be the type of QB that makes everyone else around them better, so really none of them are going into a good situation. Trubisky is going to crash and burn, and his career will be ruined because the Bear's offense is horrible. Mahomes is an awful QB to begin with, so I imagine he'll be getting someone fired in short order after he starts playing. Smith is getting flashbacks. Watson is going to an awful Texans offense. Although luckily it looks like their playbook actually favors his style of QB, so maybe he'll be mediocre. I guess David Webb is in the best situation out of all of them.-
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Well, I think the problems he has as a QB are fixable compared to Mahomes or Watson.
Mahomes is afraid of clean pockets, and that's instinctual at this point. It can't be fixed long term, because in order for him to fight the urge he'll have to be actively thinking about it. I think people fell in love with Mahomes because he could throw the ball really, really far. So what?
Watson has similar problems fearing clean pockets, but unlike Mahomes is able to set his feet some of the time when he throws. He sometimes throws better balls.
Kizer has pro footwork. He just doesn't have much else going for him (noodle arm, no ability to read defenses, no ability to progress through his receivers). But reading defenses and decision-making can be taught, which is why I rank him #2 in this class. He'll still need good players around him to make up for his shortcomings as a thrower, but he isn't going to make bad decisions because he can't plant his feet on the ground.
This isn't a very good draft class, it's Gabbert, Locker, Weeden all over again. So being #2 isn't all that special.
Basically, I think the problems Kizer has are fixable, and the problems Mahomes and Watson have aren't.-
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Gosh betting over football....
In 2015 I had a bet with a friend, who said the Skins would win the NFC East, and he was so confident he'd put money on it, so he took the Skins, and I took the field. Then Romo goes ahead and breaks his neck twice...Eli sets an interception record...and I don't even know what the Eagles were doing, and the Skins come from 4-12 season to winning the division.
Long story short...fuck the NFC East.-
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How motivated would you be to play your best...when you were on the Browns?
He'll probably be motivated to play well on his new team.-
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It's weird that sports are just about the only industry where the majority of fans are on management's side.
Le'Veon wants to get paid what he feels he's worth. What's so bad about it?
As a Raven's fan, I am happy if he stays off the field. As a fellow human, I am behind his decision to hold out.-
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LOLOL
Let's flip this.
BEGIN SCENE
The Steeler's organization is already making tens of millions of dollars regardless
I value team and performance over money and I'm extremely poor, so when I see the rich quabbling over millions when there is more value in things like relationships with your emploees, peers, and teamwork and working towards a common goal (being a great team, winning a championship), it's utterly stupid
it's greedy and shows that they value money over football, and it doesn't matter that this is 'what every sports organization does'. It doesn't need to be that way, and a good executive can set an example. (there have been plenty of organizations willing to pay a luxury tax so they can make their team more competitive)
END SCENE-
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The problem where players play a sport that is killing them and make them (the team) billions of dollars?
You're right, I can't see it.-
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Are you anti-worker in general?
Let's roleplay.
"Dreal, you have brought immense value to our company over the last 3 years. I see that you would like a pay raise to reflect the value that you have brought us. However, I am only willing to give you a fraction of the pay raise you've requested. I hope that you take this insignificant pay raise and your continued chemistry with your fellow employees as compensation enough."
What do you do?-
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Let's say all those are true BUT you still have provided more monetary value to your company than what you are worth.-
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It is just super weird to me that we are so ANTI-WORKER when it comes to athletes.
If we were talking about teachers holding out for a pay raise that was completely within the realm of happening, would you also be singing the 'the job should be enough' tune?
Or if we were talking about police officers. Or nurses. Or firefighters. I promise you all those employers have salary limitations too. I doubt many people would be saying 'no, don't pay them what they are valued!'-
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Oh...so we should make an EXCEPTION because football players make millions of dollars?
How much money do you think the owner makes? Or the GM? How many yards did they run for the Steelers last year?
Surely you object to them making money since they don't contribute to on field performance, right?-
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So there is a number where money shouldn't matter anymore?
Teacher, nurse, or police officer salary isn't your line. I'm curious as to where it is?-
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Listen, I get the idea that at a certain point there isn't much of a difference between millions of dollars and more millions of dollars.
But, this is still a job for Bell. He should have the same rights as a worker that everyone else has. The average worker has the ability to negotiate for pay, and take their talents to another job if they are unhappy. For athletes...there is ONE pro league. The NFL has a monopoly on Football. Bell who's job is a professional football player, cannot go to another league to be a professional football player.
Yes, I know there are scrub leagues. But, would you expect a teacher to walk from her job to flip burgers at McDonald's? That would be the same as what Bell would have to do to play arena ball.-
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Ah. So the real issue is that Bell has the ability to do what most workers can't. He can be like other workers in most respects (denied a few rights), but this ability of his is what separates him in your mind, and thus, makes him worthy of anti-worker sentiment that you would never give any of the other professions I mentioned?-
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Well like I said originally, I doubt you would be so pro-company if it were any other profession. It's just this one.-
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I get that at a certain point that there isn't a difference between 14 and 15 million dollars, and it is easy to say 'this is greed'. Especially since the organization in question can afford it, and it isn't unreasonable based on his value.
But you wouldn't say that about 14 per hour vs. 15 per hour.-
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Anyway, I don't want to flood this thread with this anymore. I 100% recognize that people would feel like that once you're making millions of dollars, you shouldn't squabble about the amount. I know it's not the same as a teacher making 30K a year struggling to pay bills.
I just don't feel that I can be a person who is pro-worker...and side with management when it comes to athletes just because they make a lot of money. Athletes are still workers, and should still want to make money based on the value they bring to their company.
Let's go back to other football talk.
I really like Cian Fahey. He's (imo) a great Quarterback scout...and he released this.
http://presnapreads.com/2017/08/29/nfl- ... 17-season/
It's a long read but a good one.
The highlights for me.
I've always agreed with his Deshone Kizer evaluation, and I rated him my #2 quarterback out of the draft (a lot of my opinion did come from Cian, however)
I don't think you can argue with the stats, Colin Kaepernick is better than half the starters in the league. He's being blackballed.
I'm sad by how far Flacco has fallen off a cliff. (also damn them for not signing Kaep)
Some of the comments are hilarious. "Josh McCown has never met a sack he didn't try to run into" made laugh uncontrollably for a minute.
Good read overall. I know some people think Cian is over-rated as a scout, but I've always found his analysis to track well in my opinion.-
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I think repeated injuries has ruined him to be honest. We need to look for another QB.-
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Yeah well...none of that really holds up.
He's consistently improved as a quarterback since 2012, so his skill set isn't the issue.
You could maybe argue that he was unhappy on a terrible team and decided to try something different...
But there is no evidence to suggest that any team would lose out by having him on the team. Former players have said he wouldn't affect locker room chemistry. Ticket sales are pretty much set in stone, ad revenue is set in stone. Fans who would get upset about his presence are probably not the fans spending money anyway.
The only explanation is that he is being punished for his cause itself.-
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What does that have to do with blackballing a league average QB from the league?-
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In my opinion it boils down to two things. The league doesn't want to ever talk about tough social issues....and they don't want players to start acting out of the norm. This is similar to how many organizations will fight tooth and nail if a player wants a significant raise. The league wants to stifle any sort of individualistic behavior.-
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I don't know that any credible source has reported that that's the reason.
And even so, certainly he could start on a team like the Jets.-
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I was citing Cian Fahey's analysis of Kaep, which I trust, when I was saying he's gotten better.
But I can address one criticism easy. Of course, he needs a 'specific offense' to succeed! All Quarterback's do! Brady doesn't succeed in a read-option offense any more than Newton succeeds in a pocket-read offense.-
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They don't. He was the 4th ranked QB last season in throws under 5 yards, 18th under 10...and 2nd best in interceptable balls, throwing just 2.11 such balls per 200 attempts to name a few.-
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I'd say read these which highlights some other stats.
http://presnapreads.com/2017/07/30/coli ... oe-flacco/
http://presnapreads.com/2017/06/27/coli ... o-winning/
Yeah, Cian is high on Colin, and that might turn people off. But the stats he cites tells the story of at the very least a league average QB who has shown the ability to get better.
Kaep lost more completions to receiver error than any other player in the league. He was 8th best at not running into sacks, league average on intermediate throws. These aren't stats of a bad quarterback.
Maybe you don't like Cian's visual scouting, but you can't argue with things like these.-
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Hold on...you're citing things like....yards and accuracy? Because I'm citing stats that break that down. No QB lost more completions to receiver error than Kaep, for example.In post 441, PJ. wrote:https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... epCo00.htm
all the stats are down bro. i get your boy loves him, but all the numbers are down.-
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LOL "I'm not reading anything that might show me that I am wrong"
Okay, we're done here.-
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He's an NFL Analyst. He's not just some guy. He writes for Football Outsiders, ESPN, etc. I respect that as an independent writer he isn't well known, but those in the world of sports journalism trusts him. I believe Football Outsiders is where he sources his material.
I listen to ESPN radio all day, so I take for granted how well known some people are.-
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Actually, the Eagles have Alshon Jeffery, who, if healthy, is a very good WR, and probably good enough to be a clear WR1.-
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I didn't realize metrics would be so controversial. I'll never cite them again. Sheesh.-
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Silly me. You see, I figure people who appear on ESPN would have been called out by now had they been pulling metrics out of thin air. Silly me for doing a thing like trusting major sports journalism!
I should have been looking at YARDS the entire time! The end all be all of statistics!
Silly me for trusting experts and sports journalists...I should just be listening to my friends at forum.mafiascum.net exclusively! They post major stats like YARDS!-
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Anyway, let's talk about how Kirk Cousins is the #3 QB in the league after last year.
I'm not a fan of the NFC East, but I guess I am most okay with the Skins succeeding out of that division.-
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That's disappointing.-
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Jets losses. 14 of them. They split with Buffalo and beat a team late in the season who is injured to hell.-
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Did you copy over a 2016 pre-season prediction???-
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Oh gosh you're right, they are gonna fuck this up.In post 508, Bella wrote:Patriots wins. Jets management is trying to get the #1 seed, so in typical Jets fashion, that kinda disrespect is going to fuel the players to like 4-12 or 5-11 and like the third QB off the board instead, while I have the over/under for the Patriots win total at 13.5.-
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The Patriots will be fine...people just like to pretend that Alex Smith isn't a good quarterback, and so when he does good things it is obviously the fault of the other team.-
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I picked the Browns to win, shame they had to have a punt blocked, or they would have. I'm really impressed with Kizer.-
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My favorite part of the afternoon was the Colts foregoing a touchdown to let their pathetic run game get stuffed at the line of scrimmage for 3 plays.-
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The Colts literally gave up a touchdown in that game. The Rams aren't good, the Colts are just worse.
Really, the people responsible for wasting Luck's years with a shitty team need to be fired. How you can have THAT quarterback on a rookie deal and are completely unable to put a competent team around him is beyond me.-
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Now he is, but he was carrying the roster from the get-go.-
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The Colt's O-Line is merely a suggestion to slow down on the way to Luck.-
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Isn't it nice when your football organization refuses to address the flaws that are obvious to everyone outside of the organization? I don't think Rodgers could succeed in the Giants huddle, let along Eli.-
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I feel the same way about the Ravens. For whatever reason, the GM is allergic to skill position players.-
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Bench Eli for who though? Eli is an average QB, if he had more than half a second to throw the ball he'd be fine.-
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Eli was an above average QB in his prime, but his skill set has always been based on reading coverages pre-snap and throwing balls where only his receivers can get it. Now, thanks to his own natural decline in skill, and the fact that his O-Line can't give him enough time to do what he is best at this is the result you get.