Micro 800-A: Double Day Unlimited [Endgame]

[Ausuka]

ego

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Ausuka]

it's 7:20 am here!

[Ausuka]

I would've played here in the open, and unabombah in the normal.

[Ausuka]

Pine is L-1 btw but he is most likely scum so good

I don't get this. Are you so confident in your page 2 scumread that you're ok with Pine being lynched already?

[Ausuka]

Pine is L-1 btw but he is most likely scum so good

I don't get this. Are you so confident in your page 2 scumread that you're ok with Pine being lynched already?

It's not like the day ends, yet. Why does it matter?

I mean RF can correct me if I'm wrong but to me that post looks like it's ok with the prospect of Pine being lynched and the day ending, with how he's saying it's good that Pine is at l-1 in hammer range, because he's probably scum. It matters because it looks like fake bravado to me.

[Ausuka]

Pine is L-1 btw but he is most likely scum so good

I don't get this. Are you so confident in your page 2 scumread that you're ok with Pine being lynched already?

It's not like the day ends, yet. Why does it matter?

I mean RF can correct me if I'm wrong but to me that post looks like it's ok with the prospect of Pine being lynched and the day ending, with how he's saying it's good that Pine is at l-1 in hammer range, because he's probably scum. It matters because it looks like fake bravado to me.

We get two lynches before the day ends. We just don't see the flip of the first until the second is confirmed. So that negates your first point.

Okay, but that still doesn't mean we should be lynching someone on page 2? Like, the only difference between a quickhammer in a normal game and a quickhammer in this game is that the thread isn't locked immediately afterward. You still have the disadvantage of having wasted that lynch early, with minimal information to go on for the second lynch, while potentially removing a town voice from the game before they've really had a chance to do anything. And it has a low chance of flipping scum as well because there's not much evidence to use at that point in time.

As to your second re: bravado...I mean, ok, but it sounds like you're just attacking him for something you think you should be attacking him for anyway, without actually analyzing if it's relevant or now (i.e. the day doesn't actually end with a single Pine lynch).

The day not technically ending isn't that relevant, IMO. Like, giving scum the chance to kill a townie early may be a disadvantage of an early quickhammer, but it isn't the only one.

Do you think that what I did w/ forgetting about the double day mechanic is indicative of scum?

[Ausuka]

he's scummy rn, but this isn't like the game I played with him where he was scum (he's a lot more aggressive here), so I'm kinda conflicted.

[Ausuka]

What was he more like? Aggression is usually town indicative so if that’s a significant difference between his scum/townplay I’ll look into that

viewtopic.php?t=75613&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go
he's more, like, passive there? laid-back. not like what he's doing here.

[Ausuka]

idk. I like CES so far. I haven't been liking singer and that's where I'd like to wagon, but you said she's town so that's probably not an option.

If I had to make a readslist rn it'd probably be like
{Ausuka}
{CES, Katy}
{RedFlavour}
{Pine, Dunnstral, Plot, N_M}
{Singer}

pedit: uhhh this is awkward

[Ausuka]

vote: CES

i liked the timing of this vote, i wasnt too crazy about ces's post above it (i thought his rvs stuff was like. tonally ok and wanted to stick to my draft read on rf first so i didnt bother joining)

pressure on you felt legitimate as well - what's your qualm there?

well, unless Pine is town there was probably scum on him, and the wagonhop from singer there feels like a likely candidate. I see absolutely nothing wrong with the CES post, and I think you probably misread it? The pressure on me doesn't really feel that legitimate; she's saying I'm scum because I don't want Pine quickhammered on page 2 and because I forgot about the double-day mechanic? And I'm not even sure it's meant to be pressure on me, considering she's voting Pine and CES but not me.

I agree the voting everyone thing is anti-town but am unsure NM is scum for that. I almost hammered Pine earlier tbh because I didn't realise the wagon was L-1

[Ausuka]

i think pine is town now?

haven't done this yet so
UNVOTE: Dunnstral

[Ausuka]

i think his reads look genuine + it seems like him and mastina are probably actually trying to solve the game in their hydra pt?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

i think for now i'm happy here. i probably need to look at singer/katy more closely. i'm going to trust people that dunnstral is town by meta.

[Ausuka]

that doesnt really help me out :/

like do you see why i dont think the cogdis point is real for example and understand my explanation of my trajectory?

Well, those are just my thoughts on the matter. I'm sorry if they don't help you but like I can't really do anything about that.
I'm unsure if Pine!scum just accuses of you of cogdis without a basis? He probably has an actual reason for saying that regardless of alignment. He hasn't posted that yet though.

i think his reads look genuine + it seems like him and mastina are probably actually trying to solve the game in their hydra pt?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

i think for now i'm happy here. i probably need to look at singer/katy more closely. i'm going to trust people that dunnstral is town by meta.

Why?

NM has a bad ISO. His consistent suspicion of Pine seems unnatural to me, and I don't think town!NM expects scum!Pine to be awkward and at L-1 so early, unless he's just not familiar with Pine at all, which doesn't seem likely.

UNVOTE: Pine
Ausuka, can you talk some more about your singer read in 78? Why do you need Katyusha's approval to vote Singer?

I'm... not sure what to think about singer rn? Like, I thought that she was pressuring me/calling me scum, which is why I suspected her (I read her posts as calling me scum because of how I forgot about the DD mechanic/how I treated the idea of a Pine quicklynch) but apparently she wasn't doing that. She's pretty null to me.
I was trying to work with Katyusha at that point and trying to wagon her townread was probably not gonna help do that.

[Ausuka]

Cooking rn.

Your tone and behavior around my wagon suggests you know this is an error, which you don't want to be associated with, but are happy to passively encourage.

I'll be done with dinner in an hour or so. Dunn,

kindly withhold hammer for a bit.

Dude, I'm about to be lynched and flipped.

Scum!me self-hammers

and says fuck off, or at least doesn't piss off the one person who's shown any kind of resistance to lynching me.

I've made my peace here, and I'm scumhunting. Sitting down to dinner now, I'll go through every player after dinner.

@Asuka...thoughts on this?

I don't think I got a response to this other than "I think Pine is town now" (which might not have actually been a response to me). I bolded what in particular I'd like your opinion on, Ausuka.

Sorry, I missed this
I realise Pine himself would be okay with a quickhammer. However, I wouldn't be, and I believe I have made it clear why I think that. I don't really think RF is scum anymore, if the point you want to make is "multiple people wouldn't mind a hammer, it's not just RF" then yes, I've noticed that.

@Mod: Immediate emergency V/LA. Lady Pine and I about to leave for the hospital to welcome baby Pinecone! Yayyyy! I may or may not check in over the next couple of days, depending on how often I can/need to take a break from being a new dad. Posting should stabilize over the next week or so.

Break out the cigars!

congrats!!!

I'm unsure if Pine!scum just accuses of you of cogdis without a basis?

Scum!him thinks he has a basis, I was shaky around his wagon to him (even though I think my stance was pretty clear and not waffly until I changed my read). It's just that the basis doesn't line up with what happened.

but like why does scum!Pine think he has a basis while town!Pine can't be wrong about having a basis? they both require seeing some sort of cogdis, right?

If you think I'm scum, vote me. I gave my reads list, and made my peace. You still didn't vote because you didn't have conviction. Now you're only doing it because your bluff has been called and there's cover to not quickhammer someone who's going to flip as Town and get their reads vindicated.

Why is katy scum for not wanting a quickhammer? I don't want a quickhammer. even if you scumread the player who's getting quickhammered, that doesn't mean you have to want them dead so early.

[Ausuka]

i think katyusha is town??? unabombah thinks it's katy/plot but like I'm not really seeing that personally. idk. I know the people scumreading katy are better players than me but she looks town rn.

i don't really like singer's progression on katy? specifically 207; I don't get why singer thinks that what Katy did can't come from town, and has to come from scum. like, sure, she asked Katy a few questions and pushed her, does that mean Katy's going out of her way to scumread her and is manufacturing Lycan's reads to do so? to me it feels more like she wants to jump on the katy wagon and get it to l-1. I also don't get her concept in 209 that scum!Katy is going to react to scumreads by blowing them out of proportion and OMGUS'ing and saying what she did wasn't scummy, whereas town!Katy would presumably be logical and robotic and say "well I understand the people saying I'm scum" (which I rarely see anyway.) Like, I don't really get singer's push on Katy here, and it feels like she's trying to get a mislynch. I still need to talk to unabombah about this though.

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

I'm going to trust the people who say NM and Dunn are town via meta.

My reads at this point would be:
{Dunnstal, Not_Mafia, CES}
{Plotinus, Katyusha}
{Pine, Redflavor}
{singer}

I'm not trying to be passive? I'm more busy irl than I usually am but like I think I've done fine so far?

[Ausuka]

good luck with finals, katy!

VOTE: singersigner

That's L-1.

[Ausuka]

I'm not sure what I should be saying? I've been wanting to talk to unabombah, but he doesn't seem to want to do that. If what has been said about draft meta and regular meta is correct, Dunnstral, NM and Plot are all town. I'm townreading Katy and CES. From my point of view, the current lynch is good and there's no reason to try and change what's happening.

I think the CES vote makes RF more likely to be town; the CES vote is extremely unopportunistic and not a direction I think scum!RF takes at this point. I don't really have anything else to comment on.

[Ausuka]

You should probably comment on the fact that draft meta doesn't apply to those who didn't choose their alignments. Otherwise I strongly believe CES wouldn't be voting me right now.

The draft meta applied to Plotinus specifically, who definitely did choose his alignment if his team got a scumslot (unless his team got 2 scumslots which is unlikely.) The regular meta bit was applied to Dunnstral and Not_Mafia; I am fully aware that we can't use draft meta on them, but people have been using regular meta on them, and I have decided to trust that they aren't wrong.

[Ausuka]

You should probably comment on the fact that draft meta doesn't apply to those who didn't choose their alignments. Otherwise I strongly believe CES wouldn't be voting me right now.

The draft meta applied to Plotinus specifically, who definitely did choose his alignment if his team got a scumslot (unless his team got 2 scumslots which is unlikely.) The regular meta bit was applied to Dunnstral and Not_Mafia; I am fully aware that we can't use draft meta on them, but people have been using regular meta on them, and I have decided to trust that they aren't wrong.

How familiar are you with Dunnstral and Not_Mafia's play yourself?

I've played a few games with Dunnstral, and one or two games with Not_Mafia, but I don't know how to read either via meta.

thinks Kat's wrong on Dunn and you're just following her?

If the scumteam is Katy and Dunn, I don't see why Katy calls Dunn "IC level" meta town when he's a very active player and other players in the game are very likely to question that meta and scumread her for it. If Katy is town, I find the possibility that she would be wrong on a read of that confidence very low, too- there has to be a solid reason behind that strength of read.

I think Katy is town but I don't know how to defend her. What she's saying just seems genuine to me. Like, in 341, she says "There's a plausible town narrative there that sticks out like a sore thumb" which is very true and also what I was trying to say earlier but I couldn't find the concise words for it.

[Ausuka]

[quote="In post 342, "Ausuka"]If Katy is town, I find the possibility that she would be wrong on a read of that confidence very low, too- there has to be a solid reason behind that strength of read.

So...what's the reason then?[/quote]

What I do see is how he's intermixing his shitposting and his scumhunting, if need be I'll make a dump post on this but he has a super easy to follow thought process and is visibly trying to move the game. That's town indicative of Dunn.

^This.

I

kinda

wanna vote Pine here but like I'm not sure scum!Pine would be in a position to get lynched D1???? I think the team might be singer/RF, and I think I'd be willing to lynch RF at this point, because it feels like we're getting nowhere, and we're already over halfway through the day. He hasn't really done anything to earn a scumread; this is more a PoE thing.

VOTE: RedFlavor

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE: RedFlavor
yeah, the composition on this one is pretty bad.

[Ausuka]

Are we sure Plotinus wouldn't take scum?

[Ausuka]

Yeah, I need to think more about this now.

[Ausuka]

I'm rereading the thread and like I'm not really feeling a Katy lynch? Most of the stuff she says about the early Pine wagon I agree with.

Your tone and behavior around my wagon suggests you know this is an error, which you don't want to be associated with, but are happy to passively encourage.

I mean, I don't see this in her play at all, and I don't get why Katy!scum is afraid of pushing a mislynch on page 5.

If the above it’s true it might actually be Pine/CES

You feel legit so far, Dunn and ausuka are obvtown, singer is townie, rf is apparently town by meta i’ll trust in

So sure after like last minute reads and some discussion i’m no longer opposing this

And then you said this.

You're playing both sides without actually committing.

Not seeing this point either; Katy started by defending you, then changed her mind. I don't see that as "playing both sides" nor do I see that as something that town can't do?

For example, she keeps going on and on about how this is scum!Pine just attacking her without reason or explanation...yet I don't see a vote on me.

this is the only point on cogdis that I saw being brought up, and, like, I don't see why it's scummy for Katy to not want to hammer you so early on, nor do I think scum!Katy would be scared of voting you here.

this feels towny to me? like, it does genuinely feel like Katy and Lycan have been talking behind the scenes trying to solve the game. The part where she says "He vibed with most of what he was doing and he'd vote in the same places at the same time as him." about CES resonates with me in particular because I had the same thought process w/ CES early on and that's why I had him as town originally.

281 feels kinda opportunistic? like he wants to grab a singer mislynch and then get katy as well. I don't get his position of thinking Katy/Singer are scum together; that's one scumteam I wouldn't really have ever considered.

but idk though. There are a few things that give me doubts about katy. Like, she's mentioned before that she enjoys playing scum a lot more than town and she's definitely been very active here, although that's also explained by the fact that this is a more serious and effort-based game than normal due to the playerlist and the team nature of the game. If any of {pine, mastina} {Alisae, plotinus} are town I think the odds are quite low that they'd both be wrong about katy. But I guess I'm just not really seeing it? a lot of her stuff definitely seems like genuine solving. I've already given the example of the lycan post, and 359 actually genuinely does feel like she's trying to sort through the games and prove Dunn is town. The obvious answer based on this would be pine/plot but I'm definitely not convinced it's going to be that easy.

[Ausuka]

Plotinus strikes me as a bad lynch because I don't think he's ever scum without Pine also being scum. Same goes for Dunn and Katy. I want to look at {CES, RF, NM} more closely.

[Ausuka]

I feel like all I got from reading those three ISOs is a reminder why I didn't have a strong read on them to begin with. When I looked at CES' ISO it felt like I was just kinda nodding along at everything he said? Like, I can't point at anything and say "This is definitely town" but I do feel that in general his ISO is pretty towny and he hasn't done anything scummy.

Not_Mafia is Not_Mafia and I don't know how to read him. I agree with his Katy TR I guess? not sure what to say here.

RF is just a big question mark in general too. I liked the CES vote earlier but now I'm thinking it's just a really unhelpful vanity vote and I'm not sure where his new vision of a Katy/Dunnstral team. In particular I'm not sure Katy even tries to fake the Dunn meta like she has been doing. Keep in mind here that Pine said earlier that this is Dunn's towngame too, and had him close to the top of his reads, so I feel it's somewhat safe to say that this is legitimately a town!Dunn game. I don't think I'd ever support that lynch.

[Ausuka]

Plotinus strikes me as a bad lynch because I don't think he's ever scum without Pine also being scum. Same goes for Dunn and Katy. I want to look at {CES, RF, NM} more closely.

Why isn't Plotinus scum with Pine?

He totally could be but Pine is always the better lynch there because Pine is far more likely to be scum with someone else than Plot is.

[Ausuka]

I will hammer Pine in 12 hours so people should say things they need to say now.

[Ausuka]

well actually Lycan has more stuff to post so I'll wait for that. But I decided to hammer Pine.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Pine

[Ausuka]

@Katy; I had fun playing with you and I don't think you were toxic. Take care

@Dunn; I don't see the advantage of lynching Plotinus over Pine.

[Ausuka]

I'm caught up. Just need to ISO and relook at scum staying away from singer wagon.

Ausuka what are your reads?

{Ausuka, Lycanfire, Dunnstral}
{Cogito Ergo Sum}
{Not_Mafia}
{CheekyTeeky}
{Alisae}
{Pine}

[Ausuka]

Plot, I hope you get better soon.

Dunnstral; an Alisae vote just isn't going to go anywhere right now regardless of how confident you are in that read. We have 1 day and 12 hours left. I think this day is just unnecessarily dragging out rn.

[Ausuka]

well done Plot/Ali/CES, and thanks for modding to nsg and Mathdino.