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Post #11 (isolation #1) » Sat May 05, 2018 7:18 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 5, Alisae wrote:Hi 2nd picks are massclaiming what their first pick choices would be if they were forced to have first pick.
If me and Plot were forced to have first pick Plot would be in the open and I would be here.
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Post #21 (isolation #4) » Sat May 05, 2018 7:36 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 16, Alisae wrote:B. Motivations. Having this information be flat out and on the table at the start of the game could potentially give us some information to work with concerning the motivations on why certain players chose certain games.
Why would anyone do anything other than lie if it was going to be meaningful? (scum or town, it reveals things they presumably don't want revealed).
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Post #39 (isolation #8) » Sat May 05, 2018 8:09 pm
Postby chamber »
I mean, reiterating that you asked level 0 questions doesn't really change anything? Of course that's what they meant. They still don't achieve anything.
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Post #135 (isolation #12) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:35 pm
Postby chamber »
Does anyone in this game really respect lycans town game? The kill seems odd to me. The only reasons I can see for it are out of general respect (his only read seemed wrong as heck) or because he seemed like one of the only voices in opposition of a mastina lynch. Even then, I think that was more fueled by his scum read of alisae, hard to say if it would have stood up.
In post 145, chamber wrote:Her claim is that she made the post from the first page. She wouldn't have seen any of the votes or l-1 post if that's true.
Bullshit
Do you have conclusive proof that that's not how she enters games?
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Post #163 (isolation #18) » Tue May 08, 2018 4:31 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 160, MariaR wrote:UNVOTE:
Sigh I suppose you have a point that if she's town we're fucked so I'll think it over( You can call me Maria or Claire I have no pref w/e you feel comfortable with!)
but this:
How is this not something you had considered before voting?
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Post #174 (isolation #21) » Tue May 08, 2018 6:28 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 170, Ranmaru wrote:Chamber has recruited me into his neighborhood, for a role related reason. He states he still scumreads me, and doesn't intend to do anything with it. Take that as you will.
I made it clear that I thought a neighborhood was of very limited utility if used only for talking in a game where we already have access to a duo to do said talking with. I recruited you into it not for a role related reason as you say here, but because if you were town I had a power role read on you, and thought that organizing/misdirecting scum about power roles was the most utility a neighborhood had in a game like this. You've framed these things in as incriminating a way as possible, as well as tried to shade me by repeating questions you already asked in the neighborhood that I refused to answer in there with reason. I don't think you could have gone about all of this in a more scummy way.
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Post #176 (isolation #22) » Tue May 08, 2018 6:38 pm
Postby chamber »
1: I am trying to progress reads on people. Not on you I give you that, but what do you think I'm doing with Maria? And it's been 7.5h since day started?
2: You repeating questions from the neighborhood is the issue. What did you expect, me to put on a theater performance where I went through the exact same exchange again? Why the fuck would I do that.
3: When you are paraphrasing make it clear you are paraphrasing.
4: The point wasn't about instead having communication in the neighborhood. It was about your questions clearly only being asked as an attempt to make me look bad, not develop your read. But that wouldn't have been transparent to anyone but the both of us.
Ranmaru wrote:The reward is you town reading her, which is on top of her mislynching Alisae. The reward was cutting discussion to a halt so that players would have little information to find scum, because right now, our D1 is most likely a scum-sided environment. A bunch of nulls, and two scum reads is all I could get from that.
I suppose it's not implausible (NM thinks that it's mastina as well)
What are people's thoughts on this statement--
In post 89, mastina wrote:I'm not going to be the fucking lylo mislynch. So tomorrow, either everyone agrees I'm town or everyone agrees to lynch me.
If mastina is scum do you think she lynched alisae intentionally?
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Post #179 (isolation #24) » Tue May 08, 2018 6:49 pm
Postby chamber »
Directly asking someone if they are an investigative role isn't rolefishing. Rolefishing implies something a lot more subtle. And at any point did it seem like I was trying to use the neighbourhood to buddy up to you? That seems a bit disingenuous. If anything I was openly antagonistic towards you the whole time. I obviously disagree with my reasoning not making sense.
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Post #181 (isolation #25) » Tue May 08, 2018 7:00 pm
Postby chamber »
Blatant rolefishing isn't rolefishing. It's just asking someone if they are a role. This is likely an argument in semantics and it's one I know I've had before.
The reason I hadn't and still haven't voted for you is because I was intending to read some of your previous games to see if your statements about always asking awful questions in the early game was true or not. I was also giving the game some room to breath and let other people come in and react to the nightkill and alisae's lynch before deciding the direction for the day.
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Post #183 (isolation #26) » Tue May 08, 2018 7:10 pm
Postby chamber »
I'd only ask for links after looking myself and not finding anything that matched. I meta people all the time without asking for links. Asking for links is asking to get some weird curated list of only the closest examples. I also like to not know the alignment of the person when I'm reading so that I can blindly judge whether the behavior matches or not, then confirm after.
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Post #184 (isolation #27) » Tue May 08, 2018 8:09 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 182, Ranmaru wrote:You are the one disputing it and turning it into a semantics debate. Rolefishing, blatant rolefishing, or just asking for a role, I like neither of those three coming from you as a reason for recruiting me.
I mean, to me rolefishing has inherently negative connotations. Is asking someone to claim rolefishing? I would say not. It would be like if you attacked someone and got accused of chainsawing. The set of actions may fit, but the inherent negative connotations don't.
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Post #214 (isolation #31) » Wed May 09, 2018 10:00 am
Postby chamber »
Do you have any publicly reachable spots where you talk about why scum neighbourizer is strong in your opinion? I will admit I've balanced fewer games than you, but it would have been my opinion that town neighbourizer is a weak role, and scum neighbourizer is perhaps of negative utility for scum if used.
1: I don't care whether its true or not, only whether mastina can show they believe it (I still don't, but having that argument in this game isn't meaningful). This means your post didn't actually accomplish anything.
2: You responded very quickly, which suggests you are keeping up with the game, but the thing you chose to respond to is something that has no direct impact on the game at all. You could have answered the same as either alignment. Its very easy content to throw in as scum.
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Post #230 (isolation #36) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:18 pm
Postby chamber »
You're being far too reactive. At this point I'm content to lynch mastina and MariaR, and if the game is still going and I'm still alive I'll reevaluate other stances.
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Post #238 (isolation #38) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:25 pm
Postby chamber »
You are still a scum read. You did ask a lot of useless questions in civ, but I don't think it holds nearly as true for older town games of yours (this decreases my scum read on you but doesn't erase it). I feel like you have been talking in very bad faith at multiple points(which increases it). I just see the other 2 as even worse.
So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.
Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.
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Post #245 (isolation #40) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:27 pm
Postby chamber »
[quote="In post 239, MariaR"]Unba and chamber do you sr me and mastina as partners or are we just the most scummy to you? If it's the former a bit more info on that would be great[/quote
Talking about partners before flips is a huge distraction unless you specifically think you caught some weird interaction, which is pretty rare. I'd have just pointed out an interaction like that.
So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.
Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.
It's stuff like this that creeps me out.
You've made some off hand comments before. (Like your ew at my question to EP). Can you explain why those both bother you? Especially the EW one.
Me: ok chamber y u recruit me?
Chamber: ur still scum but i think ur a pr role (dats y i chose u) also don't expect me to talk in here
Me: im town yes
Chamber: im town yes? so ur not claiming a role k imma keep my read of scum on you
Me: wut lol *wifoms pr answer*
This paraphrase is mostly accurate but lacks nuance. The big thing missing (which I didn't fully explain before) is that you didn't actually look interested in solving the game day 1. Your questions didn't go meaningful places. This to me makes it much more likely that you are scum (and thus don't need to know more info) or are a town investigative PR (and thus have other ways of getting the info). I didn't have PR reads on anyone else and already explained why I thought a neighbourhood in this game was more or less useless for anything other than PR organization.
Me: ok chamber y u recruit me?
Chamber: ur still scum but i think ur a pr role (dats y i chose u) also don't expect me to talk in here
Me: im town yes
Chamber: im town yes? so ur not claiming a role k imma keep my read of scum on you
Me: wut lol *wifoms pr answer*
I do think this is another instance of a bad faith paraphrase though, not in that it isn't based in truth, but in that it makes things look as bad for me/good for you as possible.
So Pine says that he thinks Maria's 203 is very town (which means he has stated strong townreads on the two players I most scumread), thinks Cheeky is very town, and that Ranmaru is slimy scum capitalizing on my error (which I understand his reasoning behind but hard disagree on). He does say I should trust my chamber read tho.
Hydra dissonance like this is way more common from scum in my experience, as another knock against mastina.
It's stuff like this that creeps me out.
You've made some off hand comments before. (Like your ew at my question to EP). Can you explain why those both bother you? Especially the EW one.
No. Short of time and overgamed. Feel free to use your imagination.
I honestly have no idea. I think both posts by me are middle tier at worst (I think my EP question was actually excellent though).
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Post #265 (isolation #45) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:50 pm
Postby chamber »
I've already stated the important clarifying bits. The other bit wasn't a threat, was just a fact. Why state the fact if not as a threat? To indicate the use of the neighborhood was mostly dead to me. Shrug.
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Post #267 (isolation #46) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:56 pm
Postby chamber »
I didn't say it was incorrect. It just twisted things in slightly bad faith. He wrote everything from his POV instead of a neutral one. Again, I've made the one clarification I feel was most important.
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Post #274 (isolation #49) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:06 pm
Postby chamber »
In post 271, Ranmaru wrote:I'm also curious if you were intending on reading my games, why you hadn't done so over the night to have a better idea of my slot then saying that after I accuse you of not voting me while stating you scum read me.
I don't remember the exact chronology of everything. I'd have likely read past games of yours at some point regardless, but normally its a higher priority for me to do it for question marks than it is for people I have reads on. I believe you moved up higher in the priority when actually talking to you in the PT. With that said, I didn't read any games during the Night. Metaing takes time. I chose to do other things.
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Post #276 (isolation #50) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:26 pm
Postby chamber »
Do you think I'd have lied about the meta thing as an excuse to not vote for you in thread? What do you think my scum motivation would be for not voting for you?
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Post #280 (isolation #52) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:54 pm
Postby chamber »
I think the point you are missing is me not expecting you to doesn't mean there is no chance of it. And I'd rather have an unexpected chance with someone I think is a PR than no chance at all because they aren't a PR.
I don't think I have before, but I normally see value in talking in neighbourhoods, this game is unique in why I think that value doesn't exist.
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Post #282 (isolation #53) » Wed May 09, 2018 2:00 pm
Postby chamber »
I think it was pretty clear that I was going to out it very shortly if you didn't? I'm not sure there needed to be any motivation outside of looking slightly better by being the one to mention it first. That could be true as either alignment. Very uninteresting question.
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Post #325 (isolation #58) » Thu May 10, 2018 8:03 pm
Postby chamber »
My confidence in my scum reads in general is low. I feel I need to meta everyone in the game because whenever I find something scummy people go to their meta as a defense. It's entirely possible it is a valid defense. I've been too busy to though. Maybe this weekend. Baring have read meta's though I think I've been clear about mastina and maria being top two. And for mastina, I think the hammer was an accident. So it's more to do with how she's reacted to it and played today than the hammer itself.
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Post #327 (isolation #59) » Thu May 10, 2018 8:09 pm
Postby chamber »
I had written of cheeky as a non thing, and then his most recent posts made me think he was being increasingly scummy. And then you town read him for those posts. It hasn't actually helped me understand your reads better.