micro 840: mystery box of silver (this is over)

[skitter30]

first!

hello all!

@mod: regular vla on fridays/saturdays

VOTE: nibbui

[skitter30]

You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone already had a Night 0 guilty on me!

this feels a little bit like you think a guilty on you wouldn't be the wrong result?

==

Hmmm, it's early but I'm a bit curious why skitter started voting me though

idk i looked at the pl and your name caught my eye so i voted for you

and i was thinking that the people that i'm very familiar with (tw, nsg) prob wouldn't do anything interesting in response to an rvs vote (beyond like voting me back in an 'i acknowledge you acknowledging me' sort of way) so i didn't feel particularly like voting them

==

You guys actually have a history of accurately reading each other and played a considerable amount of games together.

yeah but that tends to happen later, not necessarily on like page1

and he doesn't feel wrong for him thus far which is always a good sign

==

I had some expectation that she would start by voting you, or maybe Pink Ball since they were playing in Newbie 1903 that just ended, or maybe NSG.

i think you thought about what i did a lot more than i did lol

==

I needed to look at something that wasn't entirely random or with non relevant reasons (what was the case of all the other posts and votes until that time), and so I got interested in skitter.

i mean i would argue that my post was basically random and kinda irrelevant (until you made a thing about it)

like i guess i'm not entirely following why this convo is, like, a thing?

==

very weak townpings on sheep

==

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76232 (scum me throwing a fit, and later in the game actually not knowing how to respond to people for real)

i waas in this one and i think you played very well there!

[skitter30]

nibbui as scum is the laying low/super tense type

his confidence in thread and lamist ish attitude/how much he's engaging with me is really prominent in all his v games and it feels exactly like this

huh that's not the sense i got from my one game with scum!him; he repped in and came in like a wrecking ball and tried ot strong-arm a lynch (for reasons that i found incredibly dubious)

he wasn't really laying low or like trying ot stay under the radar or anything there

[skitter30]

The reason I asked skitter why she had voted me instead of anyone else is because:

idk i kinda feel like you thought about this a lot more than i did

[skitter30]

Actually I re:read skitter's post some parts of it feels too cheeky and it was made before sheep had changed their read on me and I probably looked like a good prey to throw shade at since both TW and Sheep were wolfleaning me

VOTE: skitter

I'll point out what I'm talking about specifically later but yeah

yes, do tell

and my response really had like nothing to do with what tw and sheep were thinking

[skitter30]

However Skitter also has a point, but it's kind of shaky because the game I played with Skitter was a multiball and I thought for real that Espeonage was scum for a certain time (and that was why I tried to strongarm him).

that's fair, i didn't think about it in that context

idk maybe i'll metadive, maybe i won't; i have less patience for these sort of things now unless it's wrt a lylo lynch, when i'll usually do some sort of meta-check

[skitter30]

The reason I asked skitter why she had voted me instead of anyone else is because:

idk i kinda feel like you thought about this a lot more than i did

I mean, yes, as either alignment you didn't think much about it, I definitely thought a lot more than you.

But...what's your point skitter?

This feels like smart shade throwing for me, you seem to be implying something but instead of straightly saying what you think you leave it in the open like this.

that you're overreacting to an rvs vote on you and making it into a *much* bigger deal than it actually is

and that before i posted this morning you were asking me what my thought process was and kinda like saying i may have had some sort of grand reason for it when i'm trying to say that ... there really wasn't

[skitter30]

it felt a little defensive to me; kinda like defusing the fact that you already had a fairly sizable wagon on you for a game this size in like post 7

i disagree that it was oppurtunistic; again, the fact that they posted and stated their opinions before i posted does not really have much to do with how i read it

i don't really think i was being 'cheeky' either

[skitter30]

Hmmm, it's early but I'm a bit curious why skitter started voting me though

(the entirety of this post kinda overthinks the nature of rvs posting)

Although I have played with Skitter before, I don't know, it was a bit unexpected for her first vote to be on me honestly. I expected she going for TW.

(expected - you thought about where i was going to rvs vote?)

somewhat yes. I can explain my logic after skitter answer me even.

^^^^ i felt like you were looking for reasoning that didn't like, exist

[skitter30]

The fact that you seem to be combative against me for this instead of actually understanding what I meant right when I called you out is something I don't really appreciate.

also idk if 'coimbative' is the right word here; i'm trying to explain that idk why you cared so much - i get that you wanted to know why i voted you instead of like tw but there wasn't really much reasoning for it beyond looking at the pl and picking someone at random

i don't really know what you think you 'called me out' on, that you think i'm being combative in response to

and i apologize if you think i'm getting too agressive or combative but i don't really think i crossed any lines here?

[skitter30]

"it felt a little defensive"

What defensive has anything to do what you said honestly?

You said that it sounded like I was saying "they got a guilty on me" as if it was natural for me to consider that a cop check on me would result on a guilty.

What you said had nothing to do with me being defensive, rather, you were saying as if I was kind of scum slipping in a post where I was joking about being scum.

It makes no sense this far and the fact that you just tried to paint what you said with a different color is again something I don't find positive.

You're free to point out if you think I'm misrepping you or something and why.

it had some tinges of - hey they're already wagoning me so i better do something to defuse it; i'll joke about them having caught me already it was specifically the 'already' that felt a little weird to me, it gave the sentence a bit of a connotation of like surprise/annoyance that people were wagoning you already. like the 'already' kinda connoted validation almost - that it happened already. i think i'm doing a bad job explaining this

You shouldn't suddenly wagon me like that because I almost thought someone

already

had a Night 0 guilty on me!

^^^^ the already gives off the connotation that a guilty wouldn't be the wrong result, that you kinda think that there's a possibility that this may happen in the future

i'm aware that i'm reading into connotations but that's the vibe that it gave off to me and i'm trying to articulate what exactly was bothering me about it

[skitter30]

Like, and here you are questioning me about things I already talked about?

I already explained why RVS isn't entirely random.

I already explained as well my "reasoning" about questioning your vote.

Instead of arguing about my explanations you bring out those questions already answered again.

(i dont post as fast as you, sorry)

yes, i get that you're trying to explain that you think that rvs isn't really random and that some reasoning somewhere went into it

i'm explaining that there wasn't really for me. i really did just pick a name

you're saying that i'm getting defensive by drawing attention to the fact that you're waiting for some sort of explanation, whereas i feel like i'm not really getting across my response to your point of: 'i don't think rvs is truly random' - i'm saying that for me, this vote was

[skitter30]

I don't think we crossed the lines, no. I'm just feeling like my tone is too aggressive (not yours) but I don't know how to tone it down without losing impact on my push like what happened in Open 741.

also i think you're fine

[skitter30]

no, it means that i didn't find the right words to explain what i was thinking the first time around

like something was bothering me - the joke felt wrong.

the next task is articulating why it's bothering me. it's gut. i'm bad at articulating my gut

this feels a little bit like you think a guilty on you wouldn't be the wrong result?

i intiially had the vibe that you felt like a guilty wouldn't be wrong, but i didn't figure out why until i went back to figure out where i was getting that from

additionally, it felt a little bit like you were trying to figure out how to respond to the wagon on you - that's where the defensive came from. yes, i didn't mention that in the first place. i don't think i was coming up with new reasons, more like i didn't figure out everything that was bothering me about it till later and till i continued talking about it, but i can understand why you read it that way

so then you objected, so i went back to see where what exactly was giving me that vibe, and find the word that gave me that connotation

i can understand why you don't like it but for me to articulate my gut i kinda just ramble at it until i realize i articualted what was bothering me about it in the first place

[skitter30]

you're saying that i'm getting defensive by drawing attention to the fact that you're waiting for some sort of explanation, whereas i feel like i'm not really getting across my response to your point of: 'i don't think rvs is truly random' - i'm saying that for me, this vote was

I somewhat like this part.

I would like it way more if you had said so from the begin though.

I'll mull over this 1v1 if you don't have anything to say about it anymore but yeah, although I can see your approach here as we just misunderstanding each other, right now I feel like your thought process (specially about the joke post) was unnatural and done when the game state seemed against me, but now that it somewhat changed, you had trouble explaining it properly.

I'm not going to tunnel, but that is my feeling right now.

i mean i thought i was saying that the entire time, and was feeling like you weren't understanding me throughout

yeah i dont' have much else to say

i think we both kinda misunderstood where the other was going with this (ie you thought i had some reasoning that i didn't have; i thought you were pushing me over nothing since i felt like i didn't really have other reasoning to give)

i don't think my thought process was unnatural, but rather that i did a bad job explaining what i meant the first time around

[skitter30]

Yes, but the point that you tried to read a scum claiming post as some kind of unconscious scum slip is weird. I don't think you can ever claim that.

that's the vibe i got

i understand why it's not rational but that's what it felt like to me

Yeah, I'm mulling over this. Still would be good if you showed me a town game where you did something similar.

Also, have you ever done something similar to that as scum? (spicy question huh)

if i was scum this conv wouldn't have happened; i would have avoided having it in real-time without perfectly being able to explain myself and to make sure what i was saying made sense; i don't think i can think of a scum example

town (not your jungle republic):

Subject: Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

I'll concede that it might look like I'm 'fumbling' a bit because it's gut and I try to articulate my gut instead of just proclaiming 'this is bad' without any further explanation, and sometimes it takes a bit to find the words I want. I disagree that I'm grasping at straws that your posts feel fake.

i have an appontment that i gotta go to; i'll be around later tho

[skitter30]

Understood.

That's not really what I was looking for (I was looking for a case where you tried to grasp something on a joke post of someone) but I'll see it later.

oh sorry, i misunderstood what you wanted

and uh i actually can't think of any examples off hand, as either alignment. it prob happened but i can't think of anything

==

/lazyposting

{nsg}
{tw, sheep}
{skitter}
{everyone else}
{nibbui}

why am i there?

==

i would say the towniest thing in your ISO is probably how much you're posting already, although there is the argument that much of your posting has been back and forth conversations or direct questions that aren't exactly easy for you to ignore.

i was also thinking that this was +town for him

==

i low-key get partner-y vibes between sheep and nibbui

(i know that it's day1, preflip, etc; not pushing this rn, more noting this for myself for later)

==

If I need to be completely honest, I deliberately did that joke scum claim to get some suspicious on me and move the game forward because I was excited to play with this playerlist and wanted as soon as possible.

so you think i bit the bait?

==

wtf is this activity during our lord's birthday

happy holidays!

==

Don't you think it's scummy for me to argue with you that I'm not as townie as I am?

It's pretty LAMIST.

just like this post.

i actually tend to townread that

although you lampshading the point makes it lose it's towniness here

==

northsidegal
Pink Ball
Nibbui
InfiniteSoda
sheepsaysmeep
skitter30
podoboq
the worst

ngl this readslist is kinda ??? for me and i'm not really vibing like any of it

i'm kinda coming around to town!nibbui maybe
and nsg might be town but it's too early for me to make that determination rn

but the rest of this is kinda ??? to me

also i really don't get the scum!tw read? he feels fine for him thus far

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

i low-key get partner-y vibes between sheep and nibbui

you think we spent our holidays acting an argument with each other for 2 pages?

can you talk more about what gives you this feeling

i want to wait for other people to check in and let me know what they think because it's at this stage of arguing with someone that i usually start confbiasing and tunneling but yeah

VOTE: nibbui

can you link me some past wolf and village games of yours

ok so i think i want to v read nibbui after going through meta

and like v read very strongly

UNVOTE:

forgot to do this

at this point

anyone who wolfreads nibbui hasnt done a quick meta check
anyone who hasnt done a quick meta check should do a quick meta check


im slightly slightly paranoid that he would do better but very unlikely that there would be such a significant difference

^^^^ these ones gave me taht ping

the first feels a little bit like you're leaving room for people to talk you out of your vote

and the meta-read felt like a pretty big 180 from where you were pushing earlier - i guess i don't understand the strength of the read here; it feels almost too strong to me

[skitter30]

^^^^ the already gives off the connotation that a guilty wouldn't be the wrong result, that you kinda think that there's a possibility that this may happen in the future

i'm aware that i'm reading into connotations but that's the vibe that it gave off to me and i'm trying to articulate what exactly was bothering me about it

wolves (Nibbui's scumstyle being a classic example) edit around stuff like this in opening posts

as a major rvs junkie this post is like, NAI / maybe 1% town indicative

can you say this again? i don't follow what you're saying in the bolded

[skitter30]

VOTE: mastina

lol

this is town lmfao

are you saying you think sheep or mastina is town here?

[skitter30]

mastina do you have any past v games/can you link me to them if you do where you act in this way like "idc what you think im going to blatantly not answer your question" or smtg like that

Sure do, but frankly I play so many games that I honestly just...don't remember what happened in which games for the most part pretty much. If I spent time to :effort: in this I could probably track down at least ten such links. But it would in fact be effort.

Not helping is that pretty much the only times I've been town have been either replacements or on alts (actually even the alts are mostly replacements), so this is literally the first game where I've been town from the start in over a year. Maybe even MORE than over a year. (Also not helping? There is absolutely nothing that scumastina

can't

do. There are things she won't do, but overall, HUGE number of past games + LARGE number of scumgames--especially recently-- = most of what you'd see is pretty worthless.)

I just feel like playing this way, because it's just.

Kinda loose. And I like it.

i feel like you're purposefully not answering questions or trying to help people understand what you're thinking

i'm not sure if it's inherently ai or anything but it's a little frustrating and makes it hard to understand you

[skitter30]

VOTE: mastina

lol

this is town lmfao

are you saying you think sheep or mastina is town here?

sheepy

ah ok
what are you thinking wrt mastina?

[skitter30]

Ok skitter I can see you having a problem with some sheep posts but from where that association came from anyway?

I hate bussing and I think the first thing I always say in the scum PT when I roll scum is "don't buss, act naturally". I would be mad for his earlier push at me and even more mad on how strongly he is town reading me right now if we were partners.

Idk if there is daychat though.

it's on his end, not your end

i'm *pretty* sure the op says there's daychat but i could be wrong

it feels associative to me because he hopped onto the push when you were under pressure in the beginning, but it kinda felt like he was leaving himself some room to hop off - if you're partners it felt distance-y to me

and now the townread feels super strong too in like the other direction

again, i don't know if this is like a serious thing; i'm not really interested in pushing either of you on that basis rn, more like noting it for myself for later

and fair enough, scum!you could be annoyed that scum!him interacted with you that way, but like i said, the associatives are on his end imo and even if you're annoyed with him for doing that, idk if he necessarily would have known that beforehand

[skitter30]

Skitter my argument is that he would know beforehand that he shouldn't act this way around me if we were partners because the first, and I really mean the first, thing I say in scum PT is to not buss or not interact weirdly. If it's not serious and just a suspicious it's ok though. Also it's apparently him and not me anyway.

I read the recent posts and I don't feel like there was as much to it as I imagined.

This game feels like will be a spicy read though.

fair enough, fair enough; i didn't get at first that you say that literally first thing in every scum pt

and yeah, it's not on your end, it's on his

and no, it's not like a serious push - it was more like something i kinda thought as i read through so i wrote it down because sometimes if i'm around in lategame i go back and read my previous posts to see what i was thinking at various points to make sure i hadn't forgotten anything important; this was sort of a note to future!me in case i was still around and one of you had flipped scum that i had gotten partner-y vibes if that makes sense

it's not something i'm particularly pushing rn

[skitter30]

^^^^ these ones gave me taht ping

the first feels a little bit like you're leaving room for people to talk you out of your vote

and the meta-read felt like a pretty big 180 from where you were pushing earlier - i guess i don't understand the strength of the read here; it feels almost too strong to me

eh i can see where youre coming from with disliking the 180

generally i just put a lot of trust in meta and my original read on him was never actually that strong or off of very much,

but the few things i disliked about him seemed to appear in his village game and not in his wolfing

can you elaborate a bit?

is it just that you think he's more tense/less laid-back as scum or is there more to the meta-read?

[skitter30]

i think sheep may be town too

[skitter30]

VOTE: mastina

lol

this is town lmfao

are you saying you think sheep or mastina is town here?

sheepy

ah ok
what are you thinking wrt mastina?

she's shiptoasting which is cliche scum indicative but it's also something she does as town but she's like uniquely less serious as she is as either alignment and she's a little wolfy which is slightly town indicative but she's not wolfy in her usual wolfy way so I'm not really happy putting stock in that

i've never played with her

i feel like she's being purposefully abstruse which is kinda like generically scummy but she could be doing it because she's feeling like whimsical or like she wants to be mysterious or something, idk

like it's generically scummy and it's the sort of thing i want to scumread but i think it might not be ai here, i can't tell

i do want to know why she's so certain you're scum tho because i'm not feeling it rn

[skitter30]

I think Mastina saying "TW is scum, 100% of the time here" is more alignment indicative than her whole attitude about explaining it or not tbh.

yeah when i saw that my first thought was kinda like:

just how confident are you on that? like if you're that confident try to get people to understand you and make it happen, why are you being all mysterious about a read you're being that confident on?

and what will you do if he flips town because like rn i think that's much more likely?

[skitter30]

i think nibbui is prob town too

[skitter30]

Of course I'm not answering questions.

If I felt like answering questions, I would be answering questions.

If I wanted people to understand what I was thinking, I would make effort to make them understand what I am thinking.

But I don't want to make that effort, for a specific reason.

This is actually the most serious thing I've said.
I've been messing around a lot, I've been just talking, having some fun, being casual, while dropping hints, while giving some semblance of an idea of what I mean, but to be dead serious and drop the jokiness altogether.
I'm wanting people to do a few particular things, mostly related (I almost said "one particular thing" before realizing it's not actually just one), but which take time and this strategy to go about with.

eh fair enough

it's a little annoying but it's also fairly close to the beginning of the game; so long as you become less obtuse as things progress you do you

==

Why are you scumreading a slot that has done nothing to be either town or scumread? Your vote is awful and you know it, Nibbui

this is kinda a bad reaction to nibbui's vote tbh
it's way too defensive for a single vote on you

and this feels like way too bravado-y / 'trying to project confidence-y'

==

Hey NSG, I was doing a metadive on Nibbui for the same reason (he uses the word "honestly" and "to be honest" way too much"), but on Open 741 he used the word "honest" 15 times and he was alive for only one day, so I think we are working with town!Nibbui here.

how often does he say it in his scumgames?

and have ever before used word-usage/frequency as a basis for a read?

also i'm annoyed that i didn't end up sending my alt-guess

==

Sheep says he metadives people as town; I have only ONE finished game, were surprise surprise, I was scum! If someone can tell me that I'm scum here analyzing that game, go on; you're wrong.

you do actually feel different to that game - a little more abrasive/aggressive here than there? idk if that's ai or a function of the fact that there you repped into a nearly doomed slot and you needed to ingratiate yourself with the other players to prolong your existance (and it worked for me), going aggressive would prob have been the wrong approach to take there

the worst is pocketing Nibbui, and it's not even hard to see.

uh i haven't gotten that vibe like at all tbh

the worst and sheep's interactions between them are pretty wolfy imo.

or this either?

The rest of the thread is basically "sheep's meta is this" or "this is town lol" or "hmmmm". But you're the one saying "notably towny",

??? i feel like other things happened this game and you're like handwaving it all away to highlight the notion that nsg's push on nibbui is 'one of the most solid points' in the game?

==

@infinitesoda: have you read the game at all?

[skitter30]

i think you started off kinda aggressive but tempered it when you started receiving pushback, and your reaction to sheep's vote on you was kinda meh

the way you wrote 'the rest of the thread is basically 'sheep's meta is this', or "this is town lol" or "hmmmm" ' to me felt like you were kinda playing down other things that happened, and since that was juxtaposed with your point wrt nsg, it felt to me like you were trying to emphasize how important/interesting/valuable you found her argument wrt nibbui

and sorry, i try not to take over the thread; i think i got a little frustrated there because i felt like he wasn't really understanding me, but i think we figured it out

[skitter30]

and i'm not trying to alt-hunt here

but is it usual for you to place so much emphasis on word-frequency? and had you looked at nibbui's scumgames to see how often he uses 'honestly' in those?

[skitter30]

huh, i hadn't read sheep as being hysteric like at all?

i thought he looked a lot better than pink ball in that discussion actually

[skitter30]

what do you mean by 'hysteric'?

(you're not a native english speaker, right?

i realized that you prob weren't at some point yesterday and that i consequently probably placed too much emphasis on your diction and that i was reading connotations you prob didn't intend, which is partially why i dropped it)

[skitter30]

also i did feel like pink ball pre-emptively brought up his prior game when nobody had really been talking about meta-diving him:

Sheep says he metadives people as town; I have only ONE finished game, were surprise surprise, I was scum! If someone can tell me that I'm scum here analyzing that game, go on; you're wrong.

like this was kinda brought up in reference to the fact that sheep had said he metadives people in general and nibbui in particular, but nobody was really bringing up metadiving pink ball - it felt a little to me like he wanted to use that game to say 'hey look i'm playing super differently from that game so you shouldn't scumread me here!!!1!'

and i thought sheep was correct to call him on that

[skitter30]

He constantly say "Pink you are pointing to your scum game and telling me that I should town read you because of it" when Pink never said that. Most of we read first Pink's post about meta that way but it was something more interpretative/implied.

i mean i'm not sure if pnk ball literally said that, but that was definitely what he was trying to imply with the quote i pulled in the post above

[skitter30]

*three posts above, whatever

[skitter30]

sheep you're making my life harder here but it's ok I guess

I'm surprised by your play a bit though, I expected you be more memey (and I like the fact you're not).

I vaguely remember seeing a game of you where you were spamming "meep" a lot and not engaging. (although I think it was funny)

your playstyle here is a good surprise.

ok that's kinda what i thought you meant wrt hysteric, or something along those lines

i still disagree; i thought he came off a lot better than pink ball did, and i thought the basis of his push had merit

You can read this as "If you look at my completed game you can see why I'm not scum here"

but you can read this as "If you try to use that game to say that I'm scum here, you're wrong". (basically saying that you shouldn't scum read him using the completed game as reference)

am i getting this right?

you're arguing that:
* sheep read the quote as: it should be apparent from that game that i'm not scum here (this is how i read it)
* pink meant it as: i only have one game so the whole notion of meta-ing me is kinda silly

i mean ok, sure, but that doesn't really address the fact that bringing up meta to defend himself against something that nobody was really pushing him fro

[skitter30]

'm surprised skitter didn't seem to realize that

and it's a negative surprise

idk, htat's def not how i read it the frist time, and i didn't really get the distinction you were drawing till like now

i don't really have a problem with sheep's push because that's how i read it too

[skitter30]

It seems you guys weren't paying much attention to Pink's posts, and I would expect you to do so if you wanted to read him.

i viewed his whole argument holistically as:

i only have one prior game, and if you use that game against me, you're using meta wrong, for two reasons:

-> i'm obviously playing different from that game, and anyone who reads it should be able to tell (from the initial post we all talked about) - ie you're bad at meta-diving if you think this game looks like my scumgame

-> furthermore, i only have one game, so the whole notion of meta-diving me is silly (from the later posts) - ie you're applying meta badly if you form a scumread based on a single scumgame

you're saying that the second point was his argument the entire time; i viewed it more as a sub-argument to the notion of 'don't use that one game against me because if you do you're using meta wrong'

[skitter30]

i also don't know if the distinction is actually that important? either way bringing up meta was kinda ouit of the blue and felt a little strange

[skitter30]

i think he was still misunderstanding what pink was trying to say - not on purpose, but rather that he hadn't yet put it together

i don't think he was being hysterical at all

[skitter30]

Haven't said that I'm obviously meta v here either, I said that if you meta scumread me you would be wrong,

which is true since I'm playing different here

and

there's no enough information to compare since I only have one finished game

.

uh right here

bold - playing different here (ie i shouldn't be scumread because i'm playing differently from the one scumgame)

italics - i don't have enough games to metadive me anyways

[skitter30]

i don't know if they like make sense together but i think that's what he was arguing

[skitter30]

i also don't know if the distinction is actually that important? either way bringing up meta was kinda ouit of the blue and felt a little strange

I can somewhat agree with this but it's a bit more complex than that.

It's more about if he only brought up meta because it had genuine correlation with his read on sheep

or if he only used sheep as an excuse to bring out his completed scum game and sneakly point out that he is playing differently.

I'm still on nulltown for now though.

i read it as the bolded.

i felt like he was defending against something that nobody accused him of, and that felt scummy to me

i dont' think the distinction of what why he actually thinks meta shouldn't be used to read him actually matters wrt that

[skitter30]

yeah let's do that because i'm not sure it actually matters to the actual point

[skitter30]

ngl i kinda pegged him as flaking out in the nearish future, which is why i'm not worrying too much

if he's not able to play he should rep-out imo

[skitter30]

nsg is wolfy, pink ball is wolfy, infinite soda's popin kinda bothered me with it's timing but subject to change a lot in either direction once they start posting actual content

kinda hoping this has both wolves
outside chance of skitter but she's also like very slightly towntelling too

you're not like actively scummy but like idk if i townread you either if that makes sense

==

infinitesoda kinda strikes me as lynchbait tbh; i'd prefer to wait a bit (like a few days irl) to see if he flakes or not before suggesting pls on him

==

kinda half caught up

willing to policy {bunk bill, infinitesoda} because i cbf reading thru bill's irritating bravado and rhetoric
think wolves are more like {nsg, ???}

VOTE: nsg

this post pings me the wrong way
i don't know why rn

and suggesting a pl against pb because you don't want to read his posts is kinda :/

==

Reading page 13: skitter, I didn't defend myself talking about meta. I said that sheep was scumreading me and he didn't specified why, and since he said he usually metadived people, I said that if he was scumreading me because of meta, he would be wrong. So I didn't bring up meta to defend myself, rather saying that if that's why sheep was pushing me, it would be wrong. It was an assumption.

eh ok

i guess i can see that

when i read it the first time i read it more like - you were defending against an argument nobody had made, which kinda bothered me

==

and then says I responded poorly to votes which I don't agree:

i still think this btw; your response to the nibbui's initial vote against you was weirdly bravado-y / over-confident-y, as was how you responded to sheep continuing to push you

==

Ok, good explanation. I'm moving sheep up to a solid null read where gut says "LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH" and mind says "hey, chill, skitter has been scummier than this fella".

idk you want to talk about it?

[skitter30]

i could see why you think i might be fence-sitting, although i'm not really doing it on purpose

i'm feeling a little out-of-sync and i don't feel like i've found anything to really like *dig* into yet, and i'm noticing that i'm getting caught up in arguments for the sake of arguments which i don't really like doing and it isn't really helping me solve the game so i'm a little ???? and not sure where to go now; this isn't usually how i approach the game and i'm not sure where the disconnect is (i figured out i was feeling this like this afternoon and while i was writing the above post; at the same time i realized that i think i'm a little burnt out and that i might need a bit of a break from mafia after this). like i'm kinda reading the game and most of what i'm reading doesn't feel remarkable to me? or like i feel like i don't really have much to comment on? or that everything i'm reading just kinda is? idk

right now i'm trying to sort you and your tone/aggression/responses to votes on you feel bad but i'm starting to get the vibe that it might be a personality thing so idk

i don't really feel like i'm being careful with my votes, so much as i don't strongly scumread anyone yet

i like town!sheep and town!nibbui rn and those are the main reads i feel good about
why are/were you townleaning me?

(i know secret-alt etc but i wish i knew who you were so i knew where your impression of my game stems from)

[skitter30]

right now i'm trying to sort you and your tone/aggression/responses to votes on you feel bad but i'm starting to get the vibe that it might be a personality thing so idk

also i thought you were player A, but your tone/annoyance/defensivenss doesn't match player A's towngame, which was throwing me off and making me low-key scumread you, but i'm beginning to think you aren't actually player A so i kinda need to re-evaluate out; that's why i think it might be a personality thing and not actually a scum thing like i was orignally; i'm still thinking about this

[skitter30]

it's ok i have almost no idea why i'd be townread here either

[skitter30]

kinda why i was questioning nsg's readslist; idk where the null-line was but it looked like i was above it and i don't think i really left my scumrange at that point and she's like super paranoid of my scumgame (see: schadd's coalition) so i felt like it was a little too easy of townlean tbh

[skitter30]

word choice / toneread

i know normally i might get annoyed at this kind of reasoning if it was used against myself but even still i couldn't help but notice it: you used the word "hmmm" three times in your first three posts (with two in the third), and seven times so far in your 33 post ISO

obviously the word "hmmm" on its own isn't scum indicative (.... i think), but i think that kind of verbal tic is something worth looking at, especially in comparison to your other games.

again, i kind of hate this reasoning when it's used against me so sorry about that, but i can't just ignore it.

Hey NSG, I was doing a metadive on Nibbui for the same reason (he uses the word "honestly" and "to be honest" way too much"), but on Open 741 he used the word "honest" 15 times and he was alive for only one day, so I think we are working with town!Nibbui here. I'm trying to sor now what's up with the word "feel" with Nibbui, since town!Nibbui usually "feels" things, and his discussion with Skitter seemed to be much more logical, but I'm inclined to believe this is town!Nibbui.

this post kinda feels like you're saying - his frequency of using 'honestly' matches his towngame so he might be town here?

which i guess felt a little weak to me? because unless you know how he uses it in his scumgame idk if it's actually an indicator that he's town

and i guess if you think people might be paranoid of using 'honestly' as scum, or of over-using it, why didn't you check whether or not that's true for him in a scumgame instead of looking at one of his towngames?

your logic feels a little twisty to me but i'm not sure if i've unraveled why yet

[skitter30]

it's ok i have almost no idea why i'd be townread here either

I don't think I like this post tbh

you said you had done things you wouldn't do as scum before so how you don't see why you would be town read?

@Pink I don't know about other words, but I wouldn't look on "shrug" because I use it a lot albeit on discord

I've been somewhat avoiding using it in games though for something sort of dumb and personal but I may change that

objectively i don't think i look/feel like town!me rn
i don't think i look/feel like scum!me either

[skitter30]

yes, i was responding to that

and saying why his original post bothered me

i understand that he's saying that he thinks scum may be paranoid about using it too often so may not use it at all but i'm not entirely following his logic for why the frequency of the word 'honestly' in your towngames means it's something you don't/wouldn't do as scum

like for me i was 'tbh' almost like a verbal tic when i just write in my towngames, and i'm conscious of that so i do my best to put in my scumgames too

[skitter30]

i could see why you think i might be fence-sitting, although i'm not really doing it on purpose

i'm feeling a little out-of-sync and i don't feel like i've found anything to really like *dig* into yet, and i'm noticing that i'm getting caught up in arguments for the sake of arguments which i don't really like doing and it isn't really helping me solve the game so i'm a little ???? and not sure where to go now; this isn't usually how i approach the game and i'm not sure where the disconnect is (i figured out i was feeling this like this afternoon and while i was writing the above post; at the same time i realized that i think i'm a little burnt out and that i might need a bit of a break from mafia after this). like i'm kinda reading the game and most of what i'm reading doesn't feel remarkable to me? or like i feel like i don't really have much to comment on? or that everything i'm reading just kinda is? idk

right now i'm trying to sort you and your tone/aggression/responses to votes on you feel bad but i'm starting to get the vibe that it might be a personality thing so idk

i don't really feel like i'm being careful with my votes, so much as i don't strongly scumread anyone yet

i like town!sheep and town!nibbui rn and those are the main reads i feel good about
why are/were you townleaning me?

(i know secret-alt etc but i wish i knew who you were so i knew where your impression of my game stems from)

I'm still townleaning you. You're interacting in real time when the gamestate is perfect for scum to not post that much (we have two players who are not playing at all and other two who I assume they don't have that much time? the duck and mastina I mean). You've pushed two players with enough confidence to make me believe you're not afraid of being read. What pings me is that I believe you have been focusing on minor things about those two (Nibbui and me) instead of having reads as a whole, but the way you're approaching people comes more often as town than scum. Also, knowing that you're aware that you're not being solvey is pretty much what I expect coming from town!you and not from scum!you.

About how you feel: I feel like that all the time lol this game is too intense for me, I'm not as smart as I would like to be I think. But I have fun trying, so maybe... have fun? And don't worry that much about it.

yeah like i said i've been kinda nit-picky and i'm aware it's not solve-y and idk why i got into those arguments. i guess i was just trying to make myself understood because i felt at times like nibbui's wasn't really *getting* what i was trying to say, although what i was saying wasn't actually that important; i'm very aware i'm not being my usual game-solve-y self; and no, i'm not at all afraid of being read here

the out-of-sync-ness is kinda weird and not something i feel/experience often so i'm wondering if it's cuz i'm a bit burnt out in like a holistic sense, not just cuz of this game in particular; idk i'll see what i feel like in a few days, but yes, i do find mafia rather fun in a general sense

[skitter30]

ok, I've just learned that I'm using the word "projecting" a bit wrongly.

I had got the original meaning right but I was as well using it with a somewhat different meaning in context

when I told duckling for example that he was "projecting" or that I as town "project" myself a lot, I was using it as meaning something more like "consciously presenting yourself in a certain way even though it doesn't reflect your real thoughts or persona".

that's pretty much exactly what that means in this context

[skitter30]

@pinkball i think i understand where your thought process better now

If I took some of my past games, even recently, as serious and logically as I'm taking this game, I think I would have done a lot better.

i understand that he's saying that he thinks scum may be paranoid about using it too often so may not use it at all but i'm not entirely following his logic for why the frequency of the word 'honestly' in your towngames means it's something you don't/wouldn't do as scum

I don't think that was his argument at all

it's more that if I do it both as town and scum it's irrelevant to try to read me by that

i guess my problem was more like: if he only checked your towngame how does he know what you do as scum at all - it's hard to know if it's irrelevant or not without knowing how you do it as scum

but he elaborted and i don't think i understood his thought process the first time; he was more thinking - sometimes scum overuse/over-refernce 'honesty' and he's using it a lot here - but eh he does that as town so it's not inherently scum!indicative for him

like i kinda read his point as coming from the opposite direction if that makes sense

(and part of why i feel out of sync is because i don't usually misread/misunderstand/misinterpret thigns so much? idk)

[skitter30]

g'night!

eh maybe you are person A? some things you say make me think that but your tone feels different

[skitter30]

i'm so in 'gottem mode' because i think nsg is uncharacteristically caught zzz

this post feels kinda wrong from you actually? tonally it feels really weird and wrong

i think at least in part because you don't really address the fact that people were objecting the pl comment you had made; i feel like town!you clarifies or explains you meant it as a joke or something; not mentioning it feels a little wrong

although i like that you switched back to your old avi

==

Reads.

{sheep}
{skitter30, Nibbui}
{the worst}
{Pink Ball}
{mastina} NULL
{InfiniteSoda, northsidegal}

Right now, I honestly don't have any serious scumreads. Part of that is that I think I learn players better by actually interacting with them, and obviously I haven't had a chance to do that yet. Part is because honestly, this was kind of a hard catch up. I don't feel like I play the same way as any of you. So many of you are talking about word use, and it's honestly just static to me.

I want northsidegal to get in here so I have somebody to actually talk to.

VOTE: northsidegal

sorry, i got more semantic/net-picky than i should have and i think that contributed to that 'static'
why is infinitesoda where he is? why are you townreading pink ball?

i guess i'm feeling a little meh about this readslist because it's pretty consensus-y

==

I think it's a little strange that I'm not mentioned here, despite having exactly two posts at the time

oh this is one of the things that was bothering me about that post that i didn't realize until you said it

==

skitter is technically a hard read and I don't think she'd town told at all this early; I guess this is more or less fine I just disagree with it

i actually thought it was too premature especially given like coalition

she was scum in the taz mini theme a couple of months back. i don't remember how she read me early-game but she also had a uncharacteristically strong townread on me lategame (i only realized it was uncharacteristically strong with how she interacted with me in coalition which started at the very end of taz)

i also have a theory that scum who know me and/or learn taht i'm hard to lynch as the game progresses will just townread me to avoid having to get into an argument/push me because i win those most of the time and like ... scum!nsg isn't lynching me this game like ever and i think she knows that

so i feel like it's pre-mature to come from town!her and like possible to come from town, but it makes *a lot* of sense to come from scum

idk how well i explained that

==

podoboq is now a townlean. Not townread only because of lack of confidence; thinking that I trust any player who makes sense. But yeah, he makes sense. Reevaluating the duck for the same reason

UNVOTE: the worst

podoboq is kinda like null to me; i don't feel like his catchup was super ai (i also feel like he's in that blindspot of people that i tend to townread for making sense which makes me cautious)

like i guess the catch-up made sense but idk if it's like ai?

i'm feeling kinda conflicted about tw

==

entirely reasonable

fwiw I think claiming "I am scum with ______" is kinda like... a dark grey siterules area.... but it's like pretty conspicuously a meme and shouldn't require Intervention so I'm kinda just saying this so I can sleep easy

he isn't my partner for real though, I know that siterule

fakeclaiming by yourself is fine but not fakeclaiming with your partner

i think the rule is like - don't fake-claim scum with another player irregardless of your alignment

[skitter30]

idk

a lot of your posts feel fine

but some of your posts feel weird and wrong

i'm bad at articulating the wrongness/weirdness tho

like the post i quoted above i almost voted you for because it feels really wrong

i don't think 'being low on steam' really describes it tho

so you were like really suggesting a pl on both pink ball and infinite soda? (two slots in a 9 pl ????) like that's such an absurd notion that i don't know how you could possibly mean it seriously, especially the pink ball one. like i can kinda see the argument for inifinitesoda but i'd prefer to use replacements to resolve it but i don't think pink ball has done like anything pl worthy????

explain exactly what you think pink ball's done that's pl worthy and/or why he's not readable

also what do you think of nsg's inactivity?

[skitter30]

MOD:

I can't post today, and if work makes me feel the same way I do right now, tomorrow, then I can't post tomorrow, either.

Trust me, the toxicity I feel right now is best kept out of thread, and I can't manage that in my current state.

Suffice to say.
I've had a bad day.

i hope you have a better day soon

[skitter30]

@skitter, I

agree with your comments around NSG's read on you. a

lso poboqoboqobodob's read list was Intensely Wolfy but not aligned with NSG who I find more patently wolfy in isolation

like that Intensely Wolfy feeling probably also comes from old meta town and he's just recently returned

he's joined this like "susp but unsure" section of my read list

wait so why was her townlean on me 'more or less fine'?

[skitter30]

NSG activity has been low sitewide but I did vote her first and foremost to get her to bite my head off if she's town xD

and..... yeah I have a fair few townreads and don't want to lynch you..... so the second lowest tier on my readlist is like nullscummy players who I am having a massive hard time reading and should consider lynching but largely on a policy basis

I'm not super sure how to explain this but it's not an uncommon feeling for me I don't think?

what does 'policy lynch' mean to you?

[skitter30]

and why is pink ball in that category

[skitter30]

ok so i guess like the problem that i was having is that i use policy to mean - this player can't be played with for whatever reason (excessive absence, toxicity, trolling etc) so we need to remove them for the game, and the tool we use for that is lynching them (and i think replacement should is a better solution most of the time unless the lsot is like literally irredemable but whatever)

and i guess that's kidna what i thought everyone referred to by 'policy' and what i thought you meant, and i thought that was a bizarre suggestion because like ... i don't think anyone meets that criteria in this game

like what you're describing isn't really policy, more like 'i townread other people more so they're high on my lynch-list', which is more like - you think their play is scummy so you want to lynch them

idk maybe that was me misreading what you meant but that's why i didn't like the pl thing

[skitter30]

hi i'm kinda like around i guess and i've vaguely skimmed the last six pages or so but i'm feeling kinda bad mental health-wise today and don't have the energy/motivation/wim atm to argue with people or to really read/respond to everything since i posted last night; i'll try later or tomorrow or soemthing

[skitter30]

ok i have some motivation for this now; idk if i'll go through all like 9 pages tho, we'll see; if i do it'll def be in more than one post

==

i still feel really good about town!nibbui
i'm not feeling very good about tw tho still.

i don't really like that his attitude towards pink ball is: 'cbf'd to try to read so i'll put him as nullscum and i'm fine lynching him'; i dont' really know if i've ever seen you take that approach before and it doesn't feel right to me. and when he reached out to you you kinda shut him down

Yes, at this point I feel more confident about my ability to Stare Into The Void and read mastina than my ability to read you. And?

like i don't like this. maybe you really hate his playstyle but you're like purposefully not trying to sort him i feel like. and you're almost like trying to dismiss trying to reach out to you? it feels wrong

I don't think I have shaded you in our interactions, sorry of you feel that way. I want to be clear with you: I'm really confused by your tone towards me 'cause I really don't get your opinion about me. It seems fake, like not reading me is convenient for you.

i agree that it feels fake tbh

==

i don't particularly have a problem with nsg's nibbui push tbh; i more have aproblem with the fact that she disappeared after that; i feel like ellitell, while not being like a 100% tell, is a semi-decent indicator and we're kinda in that category here

Nibbui (1): northsidegal

nsg is ridiculously adverse to bussing btw
in taz she didn't vote a partner *once*

and in a bunch of scumgames of hers that i checked in that game i could only find one other example of her voting a partner iirc - in american presidents, she started out voting her partner in rvs and then repped out shorlty thereafter without changing her vote

==

whatever nibbui's been doing these last two pages feels textbook

twtbw

?? what does this acronym mean?

==

Nibbui, the fact that you just assume that I'm scum, and buddies with sheep, just because I don't have confidence in YOUR confidence, is horrible play. By all means, to other players, if you know Nibbui better, feel free to vote sheep or even lynch him if you think Nibbui is on the right track here. I just can't, because I don't know Nibbui, I can't trust that his reads are perfect, and I don't even know for sure that he's town.

I'm more convinced that he's town now, after this stupid argument, but I'm also less convinced that he's a better player than I am.

this is pretty townie imo

I'm the only one here right now, and everybody apparently knows you better than me. Please don't drop this. Please talk to the other players, and interact with them about this. If you believe sheep is scum, don't just drop that. I want to understand why, and maybe talking to other players will help clarify what is going through your head.

this too

VOTE: sheep

There. Now stay, and talk to us. Don't leave this game and go mope just because I don't understand what's going on with you.

and this one

==

Basically I'm in your PoE and conftown to myself

... Our reads are almost upside down and you aren't doing anything to convince me on anything

so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing except laughing at you??

this post feels wrong, especially the bolded

(i think it's because using knowing your own alignment to claim that his reads are upside down feels a little fallacious?)

==

Let's do this one

Why are you townreading skitter? I'm frankly not

yes, let's talk about this

==

ok new post now, five pages to go

[skitter30]

not sure how my reaction would be different because you presented me with a situation where you're

objectively wrong on me

+ have ~4 reads I dislike? there's no other way for me to respond to it than ask for more information and point out that it presents as laughable

why is he objectively wrong on you?

==

I mean, I appreciate self-meta so I don't mind if you try to explain how scum!you would be different here.

I haven't really thought about how I'd wolf against this list sorry

From a reaction test POV no, I don't think there's any way I can respond differently regardless of alignment. I'd like to see what you think is AI about it

you're starting to remind me a lot of american presidents

==

I don't think skitter has done anything AI and I think she'd agree with that

i actually think i disagre with this, thank you very much

her real-times were pretty semantically focused and didn't feel all that productive and towny to me, like skitter knows I know that skitter knows her towntell is ability to hold real-time interactions so I think this might be how scum!skitter gets around that

i think that this is prob a fair take wrt the semantically-minded convos but the one from a couple of nights ago with pink ball i'm pretty sure is out of my scumrange

i'm also like sortable by post-count most of the time and like ... look at the activity overview

==

Take it easy skitter, mental health comes first always. <33

I hope you get better soon skitter

<3 tyty

==

tinfoil-y showerthought but if nsg is scum tw could be scum with her imo

==

i honestly dont know right now nibbui

im actually very confident on all of my towns to some degree rn but i think the three lhf is too easy and im fucking up somewhere

i dont' think teh answer is just: nsg/soda

i still think soda is prob about to flake and we should just wait for a replacement

==

I was hiding all this time but I've been finding mastina posts pretty towny, don't you kinda feel it as well sheep?

i disagree; i think they're at best null

==

@sheep
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76501&user_select[]=29653

skitter30 rep'd into a wolf slot
thoughts?

i am very interested in hearing how you may think that game looks anything like this one

==

i think nsg's rep-out is scum-indciative for her tbh
in that spate of games i checked during taz i found a bunch of games where she flaked and i'm iirc i'm pretty sure none of them were town

[skitter30]

What's your problem wrt me referring to knowing my own alignment?

I also figure you'll see where I was coming from with Punk Bill but if not lmk

idk, feels weird for you to use that to say his reads are upside down

i guess the pink ball thing is like a personality clash maybe but it feels kinda wrong. i did see that you're coming around to him but i don't like how you were treating him earlier

maybe i just on principle don't like the notion of just like shutting down people who are trying to reach out to you and that's why i don't like it idk

[skitter30]

why is he objectively wrong on you?

he thinks I'm scum

read this in context of my objection pl

s

i'm not following what you're trying to say here tbh

[skitter30]

In retrospect I feel like we were not reaching out to each other very mutually. I feel like you're struggling with a lot of sorting/play choices I've made this game but I'm not sure what you think is coming from scum!me?

idk

not feeling like town!you (ie all the posts that i pulled that i said felt weird)

i know that's not very helpful but that's how i read you, based on how 'not wrong' you feel

like i can't really describe or explain why i think it's scummy. i don't even know if i think it's scummy; more like it feels wrong and i associate wrong!you with you being scum (or like jungle republic)

[skitter30]

dont make a read on her subbing out

please

im not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with that but i dont want to angleshoot like that

fair enough

[skitter30]

why is he objectively wrong on you?

he thinks I'm scum

read this in context of my objection pl

s

i'm not following what you're trying to say here tbh

We were talking about why I was finding it difficult to respond any differently to how I was responding and I'm pretty sure I chose those words when I was asking how he expected scum!me to respond

like, fmpov I'm always going to absolutely disagree with what he's saying

ah ok i think i didn't put it in the broader context correctly, sorry

[skitter30]

In retrospect I feel like we were not reaching out to each other very mutually. I feel like you're struggling with a lot of sorting/play choices I've made this game but I'm not sure what you think is coming from scum!me?

idk

not feeling like town!you (ie all the posts that i pulled that i said felt weird)

i know that's not very helpful but that's how i read you, based on how 'not wrong' you feel

like i can't really describe or explain why i think it's scummy. i don't even know if i think it's scummy; more like it feels wrong and i associate wrong!you with you being scum (or like jungle republic)

again i know that 'feeling wrong' isn't very helpful on your end but i don't know how to explain better than that, like better than 'doesn't feel like town!you'

[skitter30]

do you still think i can toneread you?

[skitter30]

ftr I don't think this is a carbon copy of jjh's game, I wanted to talk to sheep but I don't think he'll go too far into it on his own initiative for now anyway so just in case: basically, I want him to check the metric he's using for reading you because you read very different to quite a lot of other analytical wallposty players.

i mean i guess i'll let sheep answer this but i don't think this game looks much like that one at all
and i guess i'm a little confused why you picked gerrymandering and not your game

[skitter30]

do you still think i can toneread you?

post stack the deck not really, my tone is dead inside most of the time and I've become bolder and more candid as both alignments

you did come around in stack the deck but I think that was a more content heavy read moreso than tone

yeah i kinda messed up in stack-the-deck and i'm aware of that. and i'm a little wary now and that's why i'm not like trying ot lead a lynch mob against obv!scum!tw rn

but a lot of your posts have that fake feel to them tho, especially your interaction with pink ball. or like over-the-top or like bravado-y and that all reads fake to me

and like i could be wrong but if i am idk how to get past the wrong-ness vibe i'm getting from you and that's affecting my read like a lot

[skitter30]

@NSG you are a wonderful gal and your replacement will be treated fairly. Just a little sad for not being able to play with you

^^^^^^

[skitter30]

does your playstyle have to look substantially similar to another game's for you to be the same alignment? I absolutely assume your wolfrange is capable of expansion

no, but by the metrics that you want to use to scumread me (real-time-ness) this game looks quite a bit differnet from that one?

(i also think i have more content this game than like that entire one, and i basically prodged through the last three or four dayphases)

[skitter30]

yeah I can tell

do you wanna talk about anything else?

i kinda feel like i said most of what i want to say tbh
idk is there anything you want to talk about

[skitter30]

i mean yeah, sure. but even in the contex of that game going nowhere i basically did nothing in thread for like weeks and used wallposts to avoid actually like *engaging* people

like the things i won that game for didn't actually happen in thread for the most part

(i also i only needed one townie to vote me in lylo and i set it up so that ofrhz would want to do it pretty strongly)

[skitter30]

how do you feel about my reads atm?

i think they're mostly fine and i agree with them for the most part

if nsg is scum tho i think there's a fairly decent chance you're bussing her

i dont' know if i like infinitesoda being in that group you were ok 'pl-ing'; i don't think that's the right way to handle a flaking slot?

remind me where you are on nibbui? i don't remember offhand where you ended up after the reaction test thing

[skitter30]

yeah i think so too

p-edit yeah but i spotted him as potentially flaking days ago and i'm pretty sure i said that he prob would before you said that

like i get that he looks bad in a vaccuum but it's like classic - new account, one of the first games ever played (i checked) onsite, posts infrequently, flakes sometime day1 or day2

[skitter30]

i mean i don't *know* he's about to flake but like he skipped the newbie queue and has like 15 posts on site total ever; it's like pretty much exactly the profile of a flaker + he doesn't have regular access he said

so putting him in the 'pl group' - or, as you'd apparently prefer to call it 'cbf'd to try to sort so nullscum group' - feels like trying to push someone that i felt was kinda obviously a flaker for activity/wolf-y pop-in reasons when i'm not sure that's actually ai or means anything more than he's going to flake

like yeah it's possible he's a scum, sure, but like most of what he's posted is more flake-indicative than inhernetly scum-indicative imo

[skitter30]

do you think that's a town iso skitter?

soda? not really

don't know if it's scum-indcaitve or flake-indicative; that's why i want to wait for the inevitable replacement

[skitter30]

yeah I'm feeling a break after my current games wind up I guess

yeah i think so for me too

[skitter30]

I guess I see what you mean. it's probably like partially a tired/bad mood thing from me fwiw but like.... that's pretty wolfy and yelling at someone trying to read you just because you unvoted for them is like kinda bad faithy

honestly idk how much experience he has so like if he hasn't really played before i can kinda see him overreacting to a vote like that as either alignment

the things that people are objecting to wrt his play i'm not sure are actually ai; they could be newb-indicaitive tbh

==

we're gonna treat skitter like she's town until further notice

wait where did this come from?

==

also i can't really read nancy or ari so yeah

==

I'm actually troubled if I should or not do some work on skitter and you since you guys are saying that you will take a break from the site soon.

Hmmmm...what a question...

i mean i'm going to finish out this game irregardless of whether or not i decide to talk a break; that shouldn't stop you from trying to sort me?

==

Yes, I’m townreading you here for that wall post.

why?

==

Skitter’s probably town - lots of questioning and sorting.

!remind me

==

i'm basically null on mastina; i don't think she's done much ai tbh

==

{tw}
{Nibbui}
{punk bill}
{skitter30}
{podoboq}
{sheepsaysmeep}
{mastina}
{infinitesoda}
{nancstophanes}

i'm kinda confused by this readslist; i'm not sure how pink ball got that high up or sheep that low?

==

i don't really have anything intersting to say about nancy's posting; it just kinda is
yeah i don't really think much actually happened isnce i last posted tbh
podoboq is still town

[skitter30]

This was an entirely clinical RVS entrance--it is constructed, rather than organic. There was an overall lack of whimsy to it, and no real lighthearted touch. However, skitter is a more logical-type player, so while I wasn't fond of it, I recognized that because of who made the post, it wasn't as scum-indicative as I'd otherwise be inclined to think. This still earned skitter a low place on my readslist, below the nulline, but only just.

Spoiler:

hello all!

@mod

: i have regular v/la on fridays and saturdays!

VOTE: irrel

Hello all!

@shadd:

im regularly vla on fridays and saturdays

gotcha!

I think i onky know 4 of you

HEAL: myself

Subject: Micro 820: Truth and Justice - Game Over

hello!

VOTE: ausuka

also i am v/la on fridays and saturdays!

Subject: Mini 2025: Sneks & Noodles [Game Over]

hi!!!

VOTE: implosion

@anonymous ghost:

i'm always v/la on fridays and saturdays

-

Noted! Thank you!

Ghost

let's guess my alignment in each these games! ^^^^^

also where does your impression of my game stem from?

==

My vote was placed on the worst--if this were 100% a joke read, I'd not have done that, and kept it there.

i mean that's why i initially thought it was a real read

[skitter30]

also where does your impression of my game stem from?

(she hasn't played with me iether; although it's possible she backup modded one or two that i was in? idk, that's why i'm asking)

[skitter30]

Not so. We've played together on multiple occasions. Just because you don't remember it doesn't mean they didn't happen. I'd go search for them but they may involve alts so I'll just leave it as a generic "I have in fact played with you".

i'm like ~93% certain i've not played with the mastina account but i acknowledge it's possible i'm forgetting something. could be on alts but if so i don't know them

but fair enough wrt modding/normals

btw i'm reading everything you ahve to say but like i don't have much to say on it

While my read on sheep is thoroughly meh, this meta is accurate in my experience. The way Nibbui is going around this game is precisely what I'd expect of him as town, albeit with the caveat that I don't actually have any knowledge that I can recollect of Nibbui's scum meta, so I can only speak for half the picture. (In other words, the meta read's weakened by me not being able to properly distinguish between playstyle tells and towntells, but is still matching the town games to a T, if that makes sense.)

like i don't really know how to engage with a read like this because i don't know why you think this game is 'precisely what you'd expect of him as town'; it's kinda subjective and like i don't really know how to translate this into how *i* read people if that makes sense

[skitter30]

As a person who hasn't played on site in a long time, and doesn't usually play more than one game at a time, all this talk of meta is going from mildly annoying to seriously frustrating.

it's ok it's beginning to frustrate me too
+ some people's playstyles in this game are beginning to annoy me as well

==

i don't like any of the podoboq votes

==

@tw wrt the skitter meta you linked

i think her villagery type of posting walls is better than i'd expected from her and i was kinda? underestimating her w game

but i think here theres a lot mroe genuine interacging/engaging with people and solving and she's still lean v after skimming that it's just a bit weaker

ye i know how to write things that sound townie; being townie in like a generically townie way doesn't mean much for me

==

i kinda skipped the last 2 pages so far will read them later

why the fuck does everything happen while im not here

So sheep, when are you planning to correctly read us?

why do you think he's incorrectly reading you?
(reminder, you don't have to quote this entire post to answer this)

==

Only a “lean” V? Her thought process here, seems pretty damn townie.

Skitter
Nibbul
Pink Ball
The Worst

I’m currently feeling the best about, so far.

i don't understand why you're townreading me so hard

==

first! hello all!

@mod: regular vla on fridays/saturdays

VOTE: nibbui

This was an entirely clinical RVS entrance--it is constructed, rather than organic. There was an overall lack of whimsy to it, and no real lighthearted touch. However, skitter is a more logical-type player, so while I wasn't fond of it, I recognized that because of who made the post, it wasn't as scum-indicative as I'd otherwise be inclined to think. This still earned skitter a low place on my readslist, below the nulline, but only just.

And it's not just her read on me. This is useless too. These

tone reads

are nothing, and are based on literally one post, and mastina's clearly flawed

assumptions

about other players.

yeah i didn't like it either because it's how i start prob ~half my games, depending on if there's content when i make my first post

it's not constructed, and for me, i would argue that it's whimsical and lighthearted in comparison to my regular posting style (hello walls!)

and i don't dont' like her saying 'it wasn't *as* scum-indicative' as i'd otherwise be inclined to think' because i literally pulled four examples of me doing that in my towngames (i didn't check my scumgames); i don't think it's scum-indicative at all for me (and she's applying this standard to me in particular)

==

VOTE: sheep

why are you voting sheep here?

==

Btw, skitter's 722 is the first post of skitter's which I've had any feeling on at all, pretty much--and it was positive. I liked it; it wasn't something stellar, but it made me feel loosely town there. 724 actually gives me similarly good vibes, too.

the fact that the two posts of mine that give you a 'postive feeling' are ones where i'm suspicious of your biggest scumread is a little disturbing

==

Well I don't know how to help because I don't understand the confusion to be had. Nibbui is playing this game precisely how I'd expect Nibbui to play as town. I don't know how that'd be in any way subjective or ambiguous. It's exactly what it says.

yeah but that doesn't actually mean anything to me
that would be like me saying: the sky is blue because blue is the color of the sky
which may be true but isn't helpful to explain why the sky is blue

==

His reads closely mirror those of the worst, in a way that no other players' reads have,

and then when you did the sheep scumread, the reactions of podoboq and the worst were atrocious to it.

i mean how often do scum actually do this? i can't remember an example of one scum-member literally exactly mimicing the reads of their partner and then having their partner lampshade it

i really don'tt hink this is partner-indicative; like i don't think scum are as blatant about working together and having the same agenda as you seem to be portraying the pod/tw team

[skitter30]

VOTE: Mephistophanes 39

pretty sure that's the third vote

[skitter30]

b/c your townread on me is like mysteriously strong + still bad vibes from nsg + idk where else to vote + you haven't done anything townie

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

@tw wrt the skitter meta you linked

i think her villagery type of posting walls is better than i'd expected from her and i was kinda? underestimating her w game

but i think here theres a lot mroe genuine interacging/engaging with people and solving and she's still lean v after skimming that it's just a bit weaker

Only a “lean” V? Her thought process here, seems pretty damn townie.

Hmmm . . . sheep still w reading me and only v lean on Skitter. I will be keeping my eye on this slot.

Skitter’s probably town - lots of questioning and sorting.

So far pb and Nibbul seem fine to me. I particularily appreciate they’re both trying to go beyond the usual surfacey reads, you see far too often from bad town in games. This also applies to Skitter.

Skitter
Nibbul
Pink Ball
The Worst

I’m currently feeling the best about, so far.

i don't get where this read came from, or why it's strong enough for you that you're suspicious of sheep for only townleaning me?

it's specifically the latter bit i guess, in 904. like you use the fact that he's 'only v lean on me' as a reason to suspect him, like you think that i'm so obviously town here that he's suspicious for the not recognizing the fact and i don't get why you think i'm so obviously town or why he should see that (and tbh i think the fact that his read changed a bit after looking at that game is fine). it feels like a bit of a convenient read almost, like one you have at least in part because it gives you a reason to push sheep.

[skitter30]

i mean, ok, but none of that really addresses my point, which is that you seem to be hyping up the strength of your read on me in order to push sheep for having 'bad' reads

you've only been in the game since like what, thursday? and he hasn't really been around during that time or really sorted *anyone* so his lack of sorting you i don't find particularly troublesome rn (i'm not even sure i agree with the premise that he hasn't tried to sort you, but whatever)

[skitter30]

ok i skimmed the last four or whatever pages
the ate is annoying and i kinda ignored and skimmed past it

welcome lolwagons!
i largely don't really have anything else i want to say; i'm happy to end the day after lolwagons gets a chance to get himself oriented; this day has been a little long and exhausting

oh i have something else i want to talk actually about but that'll wait prob till day2 i think

==

other assorted things:

he tried to get me mislynched and was deathtunnelled on me,

like he seems to be here.

this isn't an accurate description of sheep's read on you

MOD: Need another 48 hour V/LA.

Today is the absolute SHITTIEST day possible.
I don't want to talk about it, and I CERTAINLY shouldn't be playing while I have today on my mind.

i hope things get better for you soon!

Sheepy, Podo, skitter, could you tell me why your votes are on us?

hello!
i talked about this already in 996, 1004, 1007
also nancy's read on sheep seems overly inflated to make him look bad and doesn't really have a basis in reality (ie she keeps saying he's death-tunneling her when that's objectively not happening)

[skitter30]

i am
this day has been going on forever imo and i'm beginning to get a little bit frustrated, and i don't feel like we've really gotten anywhere new in the last half-week or so

[skitter30]

i skimmed the last 5 pages and i don't know how to read any of the ate and i find it more than a little bit annoying

[skitter30]

I want to lynch Soda for real if his behavior don't change by the way.

Can we policy lynch him?

What's your opinion Sheep?

This is ugly though

Proposing policy lynches when you already have 14 pages of content

huh, i didn't even remember that tw's pl post came right after nibbui fake-proposed it
that makes tw look worse imo

[skitter30]

Up to page 14 so far:

Town:

[Skitter]
[Nibbui, Sheep]

Scum:
[NSG]

why am i here?

[skitter30]

#464 Skitter:

Sometimes consensus is correct. Ask Sheep about how town had consensus on the Serial Killers game we just played. We decided everyone who was active was town and the replacements both wound up being scum. Consensus =/= wrong

Also podo was in that game too.

i know, i've played a bunch of games recently where it was just the consensus scumreads
but people settling on you/nsg/mastina (your slot wasn't here; mastina hasn't really been as active) doesn't feel like the *right* consensus for this game
idk how to explain that better; this feels like a game where scum might be in the townbloc

[skitter30]

#991 is very bad, Meph says the slot is town and then basically threatens it with a scumread for Sheep scumreading her

which post did you mean here? (i wrote 991)

[skitter30]

I just have a hard time with one red flag post, and it was the one where she asked why NSG wasn’t voting Mastina. It felt like an attempt to subtly posture the slot as town.

can you explain this again? do you think she was trying to posture the nsg/mest slot as town or the mastina slot as town?

[skitter30]

nm sorry; i had half-skimmed that post didn't get it and then reread it again

[skitter30]

Skit those are back to back in the iso

That’s really bad

idk what this is referring to

[skitter30]

#991 is very bad, Meph says the slot is town and then basically threatens it with a scumread for Sheep scumreading her

#994 is also kind of bad, considering their last post is #916 and has Skitter as a town read. Then she throws shade on Skitter for being the third vote.

oh yeah i got the bolded, and i agree; i didn't like her reaction to my vote much which is partially why i'm keeping it there
(i remember thinking something along the lines of .... 'do i really look like the sort of person who votes just because it'll be the third vote?')

i was asking about the bolded because i couldn't tell which posts you were referring to there

[skitter30]

*whoops i meant i got the unbolded, i was wondering about the bolded

sorry typing fast

[skitter30]

hydra's opening is pretty meh

gun to my head w but it's mostly just meh

I don’t really believe you actually believe we’re w here. I will give you some time but I will become legit concerned, if sheep isn’t able to correctly read me soon.

Here it is Skittet

911 not 991

ah ok, thanks

i didn't like her whole reaction to sheep saying this may be scum!her; it felt over-reaction-y and yeah she basically flipped on her initial townread once he started saying that

[skitter30]

i'll unvote if it'll make people feel better wrt a quickhammer

[skitter30]

idk i ignored all the outrage; i'm not sure how much of it was ai; i've def seen her freak out at not being townread as town

but it feels very over-the-top and makes me kinda uncomfortable to read three pages of people freaking out and swearing at people and i just don't like it so i'm ignoring it and not using it either way

pedit sure UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

what do you think of a theoretical tw/mest(nsg) team?

(i know day1 pre-flips etc etc etc)

[skitter30]

yeah it was the confidence in the nsg push that tripped me up

also nsg is known to really dislike playing scum and tw kept hyping this angle while pushing her; i could see a universe where they mutually decided to let that happen and to let tw get all that sweet sweet towncred

also i pointed out this theory to him some time last week and he ignored it (and i'm pretty sure he addressed other parts of that same point where i raised this idea)

i don't know how he feels about bussing these days. he used to hate it and avoid it like the plague but i'm drawing this knowledge on a game that happened like six months ago so that may not be a thing anymore idk

[skitter30]

also there's only two votes on the slot apparently so
VOTE: mestiphanes 39

[skitter30]

i'll unvote again if people don't want the day to end but i'm pretty sure it's only 3 if i'm counting correctly
(also i'm a she btw)

[skitter30]

also she claimed vt already

[skitter30]

Also, sheep is town simply because he asked you something after you said that he should ask you something?

how lazy of a read that is anyway to be honest?

You can mislynch me. I’m town. VT but I don’t think you are anymore.

VOTE: Nibbul

If you’re town here, stay the fuck out of dead chat!

[skitter30]

i mean that's three votes because you're counting me twice

[skitter30]

slightly like wrt lack of competing wagons but I sr the slot and this checks out

this wagon is probably filthy regardless of flip

Explain

if this is scum what are scum doing?;
if this is town what are scum doing?

...

if you think this why are you voting here

[skitter30]

also i have things i kinda want to say wrt meph but prob shouldn't since it's more about their playstyle than anything like ai or whatever

p-edit @nibbui if you want more time i'll unvote

[skitter30]

bad
feels like bussing; kinda like he's rushing to make sure he's on wagon if that makes sense
calling it filthy kinda feels like he thinks it may flip town and is setting up to push on wagon tomorrow
(i know that the above two are contradictory)

[skitter30]

bad
feels like bussing; kinda like he's rushing to make sure he's on wagon if that makes sense
calling it filthy kinda feels like he thinks it may flip town and is setting up to push on wagon tomorrow
(i know that the above two are contradictory)

I know I just swung my c*ck around on the Meph lynch but now I almost feel like TW is a safer bet

But I’m also going to kick myself in the ass if I don’t lynch this slot, die, and it gets to endgame.

i don't want meph anywhere close to endgame
not sure if i want to lynch tw today. he kinda feels weird still. and has a bunch of bad posts. filthy sounds like he's shading the wagon so i don't like that he's voting there *while* calling it filthy

i'm becoming a little paranoid that meph may be town given how close to everyone except for like nibbui and maybe mastina have this read
but then i get paranoid a lot about this sort of thing so idk

[skitter30]

Go for it also! We xan rake playstyle critiques as well as whatever read you have

maybe in post-game

[skitter30]

yeah i feel bussing + trying to shade the wagon which is kinda contradictory
unless he's trying to go the angle of: scum must have bussed so we need to look onwagon tomorrow but then why does he put himself on wagon?

[skitter30]

feels like bussing;

kinda like he's rushing to make sure he's on wagon if that makes sense

did you get this vibe?

[skitter30]

Can we push off the convo wrt how well i can read you a bit?

P-edit that's what ur nancy vote felt like to me, with ur intent to hammer when she only had three votes when u were half-asleep

[skitter30]

Thats not really what i meant but whatever

i'm realizing that the things i thought were towntells for u arent now/anymore so idk how to really read u so i'm feeling kinda indecisive/paranoid

[skitter30]

So basically the things i'd put in the 'town' column i feel kinda ???? about

And you have some pretty scummy posts too that are kinda bad in an objective sense, irregardless of whether or not u want to talk about them. And rn this is probably outweighing the questionably townie posts.

And im starting to wonder if the issues i have with meph are playstyle based (ie im reading them negatively because the ate is pissing me off) or if they're actually objectively scummy

Idk im going to sleep on itUNVOTE:

[skitter30]

I kinda half forgot mastina exists, guess I'm a little hooked on a {Nancy, wagons} solve and she's like... A hard maybe. she's always read me wrong afaict

which wagon?

i'm not entirely following why you think nancy/wagons are a team, or why your'e scumreading lolwagons

==

i feel like i'm vibing a lot with lolwagons thought process so i want to townread him but idk if Making Sense is good reason to townread people. also i'm a little bit paranoid of replacements who come in and have povs similar to mine and/or consensus - if you're scum and entering in middle of a convo it's easy to conform your opinions to things that have already happened because other people's povs (and how they've been recieved by everyone else) are already apparent

idk if i described that well but basically what i'm trying to say that the fact that i agree with most of what he's posting makes me a little nervous

in case it wasn't apparent, i'm feeling very indecisive rn

==

idk i ignored all the outrage; i'm not sure how much of it was ai; i've def seen her freak out at not being townread as town

but it feels very over-the-top and makes me kinda uncomfortable to read three pages of people freaking out and swearing at people and i just don't like it so i'm ignoring it and not using it either way

pedit sure UNVOTE:

I apologize for that. Fwiw, I don’t think it was okay.

whatever i'll just say my bit now because this is really starting to upset me; sorry if i cause another outburst

nancy, you respond to normal criticism within the scope of the game - ie like people scumreading you or saying you may be within your scum meta - by lashing out at people: swearing at them, calling them names, threatening to not talk to people, threatening to rep-out, attacking their character, attacking your friendship with them etc

it's at best disruptive and distasteful and at worst toxic and emotionally manipulative to get people to say what you want to hear (or at least to stop saying what you don't like)

it's making me upset and uncomfortable to read interactions like this; i really don't like it and it kinda fucks with my head to read this sort of thing. and the game is rather small so i feel like i can't just ignore you altogether.

(i'm aware i'm playing a game that's inherently about manipulation but i feel like this sort of thing crosses the line)

idk how to sort you or what to do with you. i want to vote you but i realize that it may be in part because i don't like the way you're playing this and kinda just don't want to be in the same game with you; idk maybe i'll just rep-out, we'll see

i have no idea how to sort you or what your alignmenet may be and i'm going to try not to read your posts anymore either

please don't rep into my games in the future; i'm going to be avoiding yours

==

^^^^ that's kinda messing with my ability to read the game and makes me not want to read it so i kinda skimmed the next few pages

==

i'd feel bad lynching mastina before she really played the game
still think podo is town
idk about tw
not townreading sheep as strogly but i don't like scumread him either

==

lolwagons is a wolf pls lynch after

I'm nk'd

do tell why you think this is might happen

==

ok i didn't really take in most of the last 4 pages or so, sorry, maybe i'll come back to it later

[skitter30]

VOTE: the worst

[skitter30]

... you're at three votes?

[skitter30]

no, i checked before i voted, that's the third

in case you're wondering:
-> things i may have seen as townie from you idk if they're ai anymore
-> you have a bunch of bad posts (pl, nancy intent to hammer, filthy) that feel wrong
-> you feel fake-bravado-y. insinuating that you may be nk'd tonight is ridiculously out of touch with the gamestate given that you aren't obvtown by any means and multiple people are saying they'd like to lynch you; i believe you know that you prob aren't getting nk'd tonight so that felt fake and like an attempt to portray confidence in your towniness when you're not being percieved that way

p-edit idk what that's referring to

[skitter30]

The reason for that is because the townread comes from, basically, "original thought". Your thoughts there were the first ones which felt to me, beyond the point of being possible to fake, beyond surface level. Beyond something that could be posted as either alignment, something indicative of real, actual genuine thought put into reads, where you saw the worst as scum but hard-disagreed on two of my strongest reads (nsg as town, and podoboq as scum).

i mean i guess but it felt a little to me like you were rewarding me with a townlean for having the read you were pushing

When scum have in their PT agreed to an agenda, reads overlap is incredibly common. The lampshade of it is arguably the most damning factor present.

idk i guess it just feels very blatant and open to me and i don't feel like scum really like to share an agenda that blatant most of the time

[skitter30]

Does that explain it?

yeah
i originally thought you were saying that *for me* this particular instance of making that sort of post was kinda scummy, even though i often make posts like that - which i objected to because i do that .... like in half my games

not what you're actually saying - in a generic sense, that sort of post may be scummy, but for me it isn't.

[skitter30]

no, i checked before i voted, that's the third

in case you're wondering:
-> things i may have seen as townie from you idk if they're ai anymore
-> you have a bunch of bad posts (pl, nancy intent to hammer, filthy) that feel wrong
-> you feel fake-bravado-y. insinuating that you may be nk'd tonight is ridiculously out of touch with the gamestate given that you aren't obvtown by any means and multiple people are saying they'd like to lynch you; i believe you know that you prob aren't getting nk'd tonight so that felt fake and like an attempt to portray confidence in your towniness when you're not being percieved that way

p-edit idk what that's referring to

-> you're also not really engaging me about the non-meta reasons i may be scumreading you, which i find scummy
(ie you ignored this post, tell me you don't want to talk about the bad posts or try to redirect the convo about them, etc)

[skitter30]

ok that's fair that you wanted to take a bit, sorry. you had posted after so it felt ignore-y a bit, this may be a bit unfair from me since it was within a shortish timeframe.

i mean i kinda brought up a lot of the non-meta stuff i want to talk about; i get that you think they're largely invalid but they're kinda sticking points for me rn

i want to hold off on the meta stuff for a bit please; i do understand why you think you rate a meta read from me in a general sense given the large number of games we played together but i'm not sure that's the correct approach to take rn; you also told me earlier in the game that you don't think i necessarily even *can* metaread you rn so asking me to use meta and not ingame reasons feels a little unreasonable given that you don't think those are accurate sorting methods rn

p-edit this is wrt 1423 and 1421

[skitter30]

ah I worded it badly; I rate the fact you're not going down the meta rabbit hole tho I do think there's certain things you might recognise, it's not all that important vs ingame stuff

do you TR mastina?

idk; honestly most of what she's saying feels kinda null; like i read through it but i don't have like ai thoughts on it
why are you voting her?
or why are you scumreading lolwagons?

I feel like skitter does warrant one, but pretending she warranted one from essentially the onset is ridiculous unless your experience with her is on soulread levels. She's quite competent as both alignments and has a style almost identical between them; to read her as town, you need to find the content which is beyond her ability to fake as scum, and that content didn't exist as far as I could tell until much later in her iso than you are saying.

And if she is at all in any way honest with herself, she'd be the first to tell you this.

i don't have any prior experience with lolwagons
i think i'm a lot better at town than scum but i'm competant at scum even though i hate playing it passionately. and like i said before generic townie looking walls should not be a reason to townread me; i can fake that/analysis/nuance fairly easily imo

i do think i'm like hilariously out of my scumrange rn tho
his reason for townreading me in 1121 was kinda meh and not a great reason for me

(and i mean it's not like i try to mimic my town posting style as scum or anything)

==

but like, you have a couple of posts saying "if Meph reds", "Lynch Meph today and sort out me/lolwagons tomorrow"

yeah these feel kinda bad to me too

==

I still don't see what you're seeing as town in mastina's posts, it's like agenda driving => fear mongering => sweeping holistic theory statements => repeat

didn't u say earlier that she kinda does this sort of thing as town?

[skitter30]

like @tw i guess my problem with ur mastina push rn is that it feels a little conveniently-timed? like as your wagon heats up you decide mastina - who happens to be ur counterwagon - is obvscum

[skitter30]

I can't accurately read mastina imo. but I don't really see her town motivation here and like I can happily be talked outta this but I don't think anyone's convincingly townreading her....?

no, i don't think so
i guess i don't like because it feels convenient to you

[skitter30]

*for you

[skitter30]

i thought about it and... tw could be scum here idk


he's definitely not anywhere near clear by meta anymore and i barely even read those games before being like lolme

idk how i feel about your switch on him rn

i lost all of my motivation to play after nancy's posting this morning

yeah same

[skitter30]

I

'm going to wait skitter to come here and jam.

I still think it's {mastina, sheep} but want to see if I should reevaluate about sheep now that I was wrong about the duck.

why? (ie why do you want to hear from me specifically)

also i'd like everyone to share their reads on me in as excruciating detail as possible, thank you

==

i think lolwagons is very very town

==

So we can (and probably should) in fact lynch me today, but we need to not do it immediately and be smart about it.

Claim: 3x Role Awakener

.
What this is, is essentially a souped-up super-Inventor.
During any phase, I can target a player. That player will have their "true role" awakened.
On D1, I targeted [REDACTED - player is still alive, and it would be incredibly anti-town to out their identity]. They'd be able to verify this if they were to out themselves, but again. It'd be stupendously anti-town for them to do so. (Suffice to say, the change in your role? Yeah, that was me.)

On N1, I targeted Nibbui.

I have one more shot left, and I can use it today.

I checked with the mod yesterday, and if I am lynched, my role

still

goes through, meaning that I can be lynched today and still use my third shot.
But before we do that.
We should discuss who I give it to.

fun fact!
schadd specifically said that *scum* were responsible for my role change last night (and you're claiming to have changed a role so ..... i would be shocked if someone else had their role changed too)

i know what the titular mystery box of silver is; it holds a bunch of goodies and changed my role. scum must have chosen who to give it to during day1 because i got a pm at nightstart describing my new role which will be elaborated upon in the fullness of time

also i disagree that it's anti-town for me to claim; scum already know who they gave it to and what they gave out; it's not like i'm giving them any new information here or anything

are you saying that the role you're claiming works during the day and at night?

==

also my paranoia about tw largely come from starcraft sorry @tw

==

Uh.

If we publically decide who to give it to

They might die or get roleblocked

So how about just use it privately

it's not a real ability, don't worry; she's just scum

==

HOLY FUCK YES

LETS SPEND ANOTHER DAY TALKING ABOUT OTHER GAMES

GREAT IDEA GOOD JOB THANKS VERY WELL PLAYED

^^^^^

==

i'm literally not reading nancy's posts btw (and the fact that i stated so has +scum equity for her)

[skitter30]

i stopped reading your posts in starrcraft too; i told you that there also; i did my best not to read them while i was alive, and i dind't read any of them afterwards

anyways the content of your posts isn't what's +scum here; it's the fact that i said i wasn't reading them and that i said yesterday that they tilted me

[skitter30]

let's not end the day yet

i really do want everyoen to tell me how they're reading me in great, excruciating detail; it's important and not just for my vanity or whatever

[skitter30]

@slaxx can you unvote for now?

[skitter30]

but yeah we're lynching mastina today

[skitter30]

let's not end the day yet

i really do want everyoen to tell me how they're reading me in great, excruciating detail; it's important and not just for my vanity or whatever

really want this to happen today, and not like tomorrow

[skitter30]

i stopped reading your posts in starrcraft too; i told you that there also; i did my best not to read them while i was alive, and i dind't read any of them afterwards

anyways the content of your posts isn't what's +scum here; it's the fact that i said i wasn't reading them and that i said yesterday that they tilted me

How is you NOT reading mine or ANYONE’s posts for that matter, ever AI

? I’m playing the exact same way here as I did in that game, so now Mastina’s tr of me, is making a lot more sense - even if she is loldiscounting my correct D1 reads on tw in BOTH games.

don't worry, we'll talk about that later

[skitter30]

uh no i repeatedly said that they annoyed me and that i was going to try not to read them, but sure

p-edit @nancy

[skitter30]

You were not my target. Someone else was, so there is in fact someone else who has a changed role.

They would vouch for me.

But again.

That would be anti-town.

Do you really want to force the issue or will you trust me when I say that I didn't target you but my target is still alive and has a changed role?

nah fam; everyone else posted already i'm pretty sure and nobody else seems to be acting like 'oh gosh i suddenly become a pr overnight!'
(also thematically i got the 'mystery box of silver'; what you're claiming doesn't match the theme and i fairly strongly believe that there aren't really other significant prs; what i got is the 'gimmick' of the game so to speak i'm pretty sure and other prs floating around odn't make sense from that vantage point)

anyways for the role you're claiming, do you know what you give out or is it just mystic 'true role' stuff?

[skitter30]

i also went down the wifom hole and thought of the possibility that scum didn't know what they were giving me but they def did, per schadd, in case anyone's wondering. they specifically chose to give it to me; it was not randomized, and they knew what they were giving out

[skitter30]

P.edit. What if more people than Skitter had a role change? It points to your claim as not being legit, since according to your claim, only one player ought to have had their rolechanged, correct?

So, who changed Skitter’s then, according to you?

thematically i'm pretty sure there's just one role change (ie i got the mystery box of silver and the role that i got is like the 'gimmick' of the setup and other prs wouuld make the setup kinda weird; but i suppose it's entirely possible that i'm just wrong about analyzing it from this pov but i don't think i am)

[skitter30]

So he told you mafia knew that they were giving you this thing?

yes, that they specifically gave it to me and that they knew what they were giving me

[skitter30]

anyways for the role you're claiming, do you know what you give out or is it just mystic 'true role' stuff?

@mastina

[skitter30]

P.edit. What if more people than Skitter had a role change? It points to your claim as not being legit, since according to your claim, only one player ought to have had their rolechanged, correct?

So, who changed Skitter’s then, according to you?

thematically i'm pretty sure there's just one role change (ie i got the mystery box of silver and the role that i got is like the 'gimmick' of the setup and other prs wouuld make the setup kinda weird; but i suppose it's entirely possible that i'm just wrong about analyzing it from this pov but i don't think i am)

eh if nancy did get another role maybe i'm wrong and the whole setup is a bunch of people getting new roles/having their role chagned, and not the gimmick i thought it was

(or nancy is scum with mastina, idk)

[skitter30]

Either I am scum that somehow KNEW about [REDACTED]'s role change.

this actually could be a thing too; schadd likes informed setups i think

[skitter30]

anyways for the role you're claiming, do you know what you give out or is it just mystic 'true role' stuff?

If I knew what I was giving out, this is something I'd be able to 'crumb to my target.

I do not.

I lowkey suspected that this game was a form of mountainous role madness--where everyone started with no PR, but my role was meant to give three players a PR, and each player I targeted has a power unique to them.

(Which, mind you, was why I thought the worst was full of shit with his claim.)

Since the mafia gave you a power role, I don't think I'm very far off my mark on that.

yeah i picked up on that overnight when i reread the thread from the new 'scum are giving out prs!' perspective

ok why did you pick nibbui last night?

ngl your role if true is like ridiculously swingy for a micro in conjunction iwth my role

[skitter30]

I wouldn’t try to wifom the mod.

What a shit show.

yeah idk the setup from my pov suddenly became very ... idk the right word - neat and elegant if that's the whole gimmick
other people getting role changes i a) don't entirely believe happened b) makes the setup a lot messier from my pov rn

[skitter30]

also like what would have happened if you and scum targeted the same person yesterday? my role doesn't make sense in conjunction with being given other things really

like if you had unlocked my true role or whatever and scum also gave me their box of goodies like i don't even know what would make sense for you to have unlocked in addition to what scum gave me

[skitter30]

But Skitter and us had our rolechanged. How do you account for that?

BECAUSE YOU WERE MY FUCKING TARGET HOW DENSE CAN YOU BE

it's ok, my thought process immediately went to buddies

[skitter30]

ok why did you pick nibbui last night?

Same reason I gave to Nancy D1: top townread tier, but less likely to die than Pink Ball and less likely to be forced to claim it.

why less likely to die than pink ball?
(why are people even townreading pink ball for that matter?)

[skitter30]

That's kinda proof that my role exists though? Because I made it clear from the onset how mine works.

no, why is that proof?

[skitter30]

what i'm talking about will be clear in the fullness of time, preferably tomorrow but i'll prob claim part of it today

the role was super clear and getting other random powers doesn't make sense really in conjunction with it

there's like one role scum could have that would kinda undermine mine and like make sense with it but the fact that they didn't nk me last night after givng it to me points to them not having it. (or maybe it's later night specific, idk)

[skitter30]

Because what you're describing is vastly different from what I described from the onset?

yeah that's why it doesn't make sense to me

explain very slowly why it means your role exists

[skitter30]

can people explain why they're townreading pink ball?

[skitter30]

Fucked if I know. How exactly do I ask the mod that hypothetical?

that was more rhetorical/thinking-aloud on my part; i wasn't expecting a serious answer from you

[skitter30]

i'll explain all of it (and the implications therein) once i claim
(i'm aware i prob sound very cryptic from anyone not-me's pov)

if i'm literally never getting lynched today i'll just fullclaim today

ie i thought a lot about the implications of the role-change overnight and what it said about the gamestate and scum basically had two options to try to work around it from my pov, and i believed one was much more likely than the other, but if they're going by that less likely option i really don't want to make thigns a lot easier for them because that would suck a lot

[skitter30]

The way my role works is different from the way your role works.

right but the point is that both of them being in the same game makes very little sense to me

[skitter30]

Like, was the wording that they had chosen you, chosen the power, or was it explicit either way, Skitter?

they wording def implied that they picked me specifically to give it to, and i asked shadd to confirm that to make sure i wasn't reading into implications that didn't actually exist, as i have a tendency to do that sometimes

i'm pretty sure they didn't choose the nature of the pr, but they did know what they were giving me

[skitter30]

Meh. That’s what I’m going with.

Scum Mystery Box: Give chosen power from a list to non-NK target each night

Town Myster Box: Give unknown power to chosen person

If anyone has better theories toss them out there.

i'm pretty sure it was a one-time only deal; don't think anyone else is getting something like this from them on another night

[skitter30]

i guess there's a slight chance that mastina isn't scum here but a lot of things are pointing in that direction rn for me

[skitter30]

i guess there's a slight chance that mastina isn't scum here but a lot of things are pointing in that direction rn for me

Yup

The whole you have to/should lynch me thing feels gambity. Best bet I call those bluffs.

And apparently Meph said her power might not be that great. So.

yeah i didn't like the 'should lynch' me thing either

pedit i'm literally not reading any of those posts btw

[skitter30]

like i guess my gripe rn is that my role is pretty powerful and it kinda makes sense as it's own complete package

if mastina is town and she has the possibility to give out things to players (including scum!) like i guess the game suddenly becomes a lot more swingy and messy if that makes sense

[skitter30]

idk posts like this one are kinda townie but i'm a little wary that they're designed to seem that way to get people to back off lynching you

[skitter30]

idk posts like this one are kinda townie but i'm a little wary that they're designed to seem that way to get people to back off lynching you

Mastina is an onion. There’s always another layer.

She could do this as either alignment but the point is the town suspects her, her PR use is up if real, and her flip is valuable. In this situation you’re either doing what she wants, or calling her bluff.

yeah idk
still think she's prob the best lynch today

my gut says that she's responsible for the role i got tho
for me, with my playstyle and how i tend to approach things, the role is very wifom-y inducing and i think she's the only person here who would know that and try to utilize it; it feels like the sort of thing she'd try to capitlize on if she really knows my playsytle as well as she claims she does

(it's entirely possible that scum just yolo'd it tho and picked me for the lolz, idk)

[skitter30]

meh idk i'll prob claim after everyone else shows up and i see everyone else's reactions to this

also @podoboq/pinkball/sheep i'd like you to explain your read on me please and thank you

[skitter30]

Also, why would you ever choose Nibbui, the almost definite NK? Why is nobody else asking that question? This claim makes no sense, and pretending that skitter's claim "proves" the truth of mastina's is trash.

^^^^^
i actually did ask this, but didn't get an adequate answer really

==

So basically I have you as my biggest townread in honor of the duck,

why are you trusting his read on me?

You were the most hard read I had to do on D1 and I always came back with some paranoia about "what if skitter is playing god!sum right now", and I still think that, so I have to talk to you to convince myself that the duck was right about you.

people largely overestimate my scumgame for some reason, idk; i'm decent, maybe even good, but i'm not godtier by any means

==

By the way @LolWagons your rap game is strong af

i thought this too btw!

==

Skitter, thinking Mastina just screwed up, votes Mastina

i didn't actually vote mastina, but yeah, that's the brunt of it

[skitter30]

meh i'll claim now; i kinda got what i wanted out of it and i think i'm fairly close to unlynchable today

so my role changed last night. i was a vt, and i am now:

-> n1 and n2 tracker (and was informed that there are no killing ninjas)
-> permanently bp
-> day3 i will be confirmed as town

(ngl i didn't exactly believe this when i got it; my first thought was that it was a prank)

also i reread my role pm and i was not explicitly told that i was given the mystery box of silver, but my rolename has 'silver' in it now so i made that connection

i have a tracker guilty on mastina for last night. i know that she claimed visiting nibbui as part of her role but i'm a little skeptical that's why she visited him.

basically, short of a strongman kill on a later night (i don't think they had one last night because then i'd be dead) or getting lynched today (ie before i become an ic) i'm not going anywhere this game and i'll be conftown in 3p if the game gets that far.

i don't really think scum are giving out more roles on this caliber on later nights, for obvious reasons. when i got the role, my understanding of the conceit/gimmick of the game was that scum had to give this role to someone day1 and kinda had to play around that player for the rest of the game; if they could figure out how to neutralize or pocket that player they'd win, and they'd have some time to choose who that player would be in a pick-your-poison kind of sense after allowing the gamestate to develop, and it's a nice and elegant setup; that's why i think the possibility of me getting other roles is kinda weird? like what can i get more than all of the above already?

my thoughts of how scum would try to play around the role is either:
1. try to get me lynched today (didn't want to fullclaim until i was sure that wasn't going to happen in this gamestate; didn't want a claim of what sounds like an op role as a response to pressure to be used to push me)

2. pocket me, thinking one or the other could fool me in lylo (why i'm paranoid of people townreading me rn)

scum giving me this either means:
1. they don't know me very well, which is possible in this pl because i've never played with a bunch of you before; i'm pretty good at town and idk, people who have played with town!me i don't think purposefully pick to make me a bp ic who will be around in lylo; i don't think they'd choose to give me this sort of power.

2. they know that a role like this means that i'll like overthink everything and how people are interacting with me and they're reads on me and become paranoid and stuck in wifom; the only person in this pl (besdies for the departed tw) who i think would purposefully try to capitalize on my tendency to wifom myself is mastina

3. they just yolo'd it and didn't think about the implications that much

i think that's everything but i may have forgotten to say something
and again they already know exactly what they gave me so i'm not telling them anything new here beyond for the fact that i have a tracker guilty on mastina

[skitter30]

ngl i'm a little interested to see how she's going to try to spin this, mostly for my own curiosity; i don't think i'll be happy with any other lynch today

idk who the partner may be and i feel like sharing my reads here is largely prob not such a great idea

also kinda want to see everyone's reactions; there's a few ways i think scum may respond and i think waiting a bit to get those reactions might help try to sort the rest of the pl

@slaxx would you mind unvoting again? i just don't a self-vote to cut things short if she's at l1 and scum here

[skitter30]

So, I thought you had gotten an inno on me because of the “really really town” comment that came with your softclaim. I was operating the entire day under the premise you had cleared me lol.

uh no actually
i thought your promise to write the rhyming rap case thing on tw was really townie; it didn't feel like a promise scum makes to someone they thought would flip town

also you clearly had no clue what i was talking about last night

(i prob should stop talking about my reads because i think the people i townread will mysteriously start dying; or at least that's how i'd play it )

[skitter30]

tyty

[skitter30]

oh i didn't consider roleblocks either. yeah idk. they def didn't rb me last night

that's why i think the conceit is: pick the person you want to try to outplay because assuming i don't let myself get lynched today like i'm the person they need to spend the rest of the game trying to manipulate

also they must have not thought i'd track the person doing the kill last night (or they didn't care if they get lynched today)

also my last track is tonight, but i'm an ic tomorrow
so yeah i can get a clear or guilty tonight if we lynch scum today

[skitter30]

skitter, I believe your claim entirely. It's unbelievable, but I believe it.

yeah i wanted to make sure it would be believed if i claimed today and that it wouldn't be used to push me today; otherwise i prob would have waited to fullclaim tom after i became an ic (i maybe would have claimed the tracker guilty depending on how the gamestate played out; idk)

[skitter30]

though we don't know, maybe scum is able to use multiple actions in the same night here).

multitasking is a modifier now that enables scum to do that, so sure, it could be a thing, idk
she only went one place last night tho

[skitter30]

Building off what Podo said, they KNEW they were giving that Track to you, so they must have thought within the context of YOUR investigation and reads that Mastina was the less likely to be caught.

yeah exactly
or they wanted her to go down today and/or be bussed but i think that's less likely

[skitter30]

Hey skitter, can you walk us through the timeline of receiving this power? Did you receive your upgrade at the beginning of night one, similar to how Meph describes it? (asking so that I can clarify whether it was a day action or night action)

right at the start of n1; i think it's a day ability

[skitter30]

Building off what Podo said, they KNEW they were giving that Track to you

I think it's more likely that scum was unaware of how powerful the upgrade was going to be, or at least unaware of the specific abilities that came with it.

For right now, I don't think we can assume that scum was aware they were turning skitter into a tracker.

no, they knew exactly what they were giving me; i thought of that possiblity, that they didn't know what they were giving out; shadd clarified that they knew what they were giving me

[skitter30]

Hey skitter, can you walk us through the timeline of receiving this power? Did you receive your upgrade at the beginning of night one, similar to how Meph describes it? (asking so that I can clarify whether it was a day action or night action)

right at the start of n1; i think it's a day ability

That jives with Meph (weirdly, since her claim contradicts yours in certain ways), and also is how I would expect it to work since it provides you with a night action that you were able to use during night one.

yeah that's why i'm a little weirded out wrt meph because that bit kinda jives with what happened to me

[skitter30]

To claim what she did, knowing everything that skitter would know, would be a huge mistake. So mastina is either telling the truth, made a huge mistake, or didn't know everything that scum was giving skitter.

my gut is that they didn't realize i'd be told where i got it from, and the original [redacted] player was going to be me

but meph did apparently recieve a role change so unless it's just {mastina/meph} or someone else is claiming that idk where' meph's role change came from

oh also i think me saying yesterday i wasn't reading meph's posts kinda makes sense if meph is scum with someone who wants to wifom me; like if partner a thinks they can get me to townread them and i'm not reading partner b's posts because they majorly tilt me, that sounds like a pretty nice setup for them

[skitter30]

Option four is no longer a possibility, since skitter's claim explicitly contradicts mastina's.

actually i'm not sure it explicilty contradicts hers; it just doesn't jive very well

i don't think she claimed anything that i know to be provably false or anything (like she did visit nibbui last night); i have no ay of knowing what she did during hte last dayphase

but yeah it just doesn't make much sense in conjunction with mine

[skitter30]

I'm enjoying the setup spec right now, but I don't want to try to sort mastina's partner until day three. I want skitter to participate, because she's the lynchpin of that discussion, but scum can't make a night kill based on that discussion. It injects too much wifom.

i want to continue this discussion and don't want the day to end just yet
i don't think i'll be sharing my reads explicitly rn (or at least, i'll try not to; i'm sometimes bad with this and i might tip what i'm thinking)

[skitter30]

@skitter I'm trusting duck's read on you 'cause you both talked about soulreads on each other and I'm bad at reading you because of paranoia. I think I've never played with scum!you, for example. In retrospect, duck's reads were pretty solid: he said either you, Nibbui or me should be ever lynch and, from your PoV, he was right in both you and Nibbui, and from my PoV, if I believe your claim, which I do, he was right about the three of us. He situated mastina as scum and sheep as "either way" and LolWagons as scum. I only disagree in this last part: I think sheep is the scum and if not, then LolWagons.

i know that this is a different game (sorry slaxx) but can you talk about how you decided to handle me when you replaced into the newbie game?

[skitter30]

How do we feel about Meph claiming clearly what she received? She has already alluded to it.

@everyone:

If anyone (other than mastina) has an idea as to where Meph got her power at the beginning of night one, please say something?

i'm fine with both of these happening

[skitter30]

(aka being IC confirmed by D3: this part confirms skitter's claim because why the fuck would she include this part if we are not in MyLo/LyLo? We would lynch her tomorrow no questions asked).

do you think this is something i could/would do as scum?

(in case it wasn't apparent, from my pov the game basically became about how well scum think they can read/manipulate me)

[skitter30]

(in case it wasn't apparent, from my pov the game basically became about how well scum think they can read/manipulate me)

and about who might think this is a good idea to give this to me.
(unless they yolo'd it in which case all of this is moot)

i have a *fairly* decent guess as to who pink ball is and i don't *think* he makes me a bp ic.
for reference, since a lot of the pl i actually haven't played iwth before, i have a fairly strong towngame; i'm known to have a fairly strong towngame; i have some strange skill at making endgame quite a lot of the time and i'm very very good at lylo

so from my pov either the entire scumteam doesn't know me, or they thought they could pocket me and that i'd vote wrong in lylo (or both)

like i guess i'm very interested in exploring why they gave it to me in particular because if i were scum a player like me is exactly who i'd *not* give it to

[skitter30]

would I start the day asking for you to come to the thread to talk, instead of wait for you to come to the thread before me so I can sort what you did with the powers I gave you?

it raised a pocket-y sort of red flag for me, that you specifically wanted to talk to *me* about what to do today when you weren't viewing me that way yesterday

[skitter30]

Giving you a townread was pretty much "I'm going to pocket the shit out of skitter 'cause she's the cop", 'cause yes, of course I knew you were the cop. I read the guilty and acted like I didn't in order to get your attention.

like i guess i'm a little nervous that it's the same scenario here
but i'm not sure you'd purposefully do that again

[skitter30]

mastina, can you tell me exactly which games of mine you've read?

[skitter30]

lmao i wish i could i pull something off like this as scum

i'm not really around on weekends; i'd prefer if the day didn't end before i get back