Micro 878: Chain of Command [Game Over]

[Iconeum]

so who we gonna wagon?

[Iconeum]

btw i'm inactive during weekends, i'll play on Monday

[Iconeum]

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

Awkward vote, feels like trying to appear busy

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Persival

Scum doesn’t seem to realize that I have the best memory.

~L

What was the reason for this vote on Persival? I was reading Persival as likely town there

Irrelephant voted himself in one game I played with him and won. I will give that strategy a try.
VOTE: Voted

How long are you planning to keep the vote on yourself? And why did irrel do that?

~Liz

This is the only post where i've found you doing something other then defending

It's probably not a fakeclaim. Scum can have any of the ranks or roles.

What's the town motivation for claiming this early? You don't know if there's a doc. Why give scum a good N1 target?

In the last run I had a role and was softing. That's because I was scum and taking heat. If town, I wouldn't have claimed unless at L-1.

I like Persival's posting this game. Lot's of sorting and questioning.

I have never been so confused in a game in my life

Join the club.

What are you guys confused about?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Aubrey
I dont have time to read this so the vote is 100% sheep.

....I'm not going to read into this, but this is silly. Don't do this again. Had I been at L1 you'd have just ended the day prematurely.

This feels very defensive for a single meaningless vote on you. Why are you so worried?

[Iconeum]

So Liz and Jack slot I don't like a lot, very defensive. Though they were pushed pretty hard from the start by multiple slots, so I would give them some breathing room and see what happens
Voted is meh, don't like the self vote and the sheep vote on Aubrey is low-effort. This however fits in Voted town-game...
Persival is my biggest townread
Saudude I don't know. Last game he was very confident (and rightly so), so I don't know if being confused is an act or not.
Aubrey's defensive post on Voted' voting there is really bothering me

[Iconeum]

That was a really underwhelming catchup.

ask saud

[Iconeum]

don't worry i'll get into it as the game progresses

[Iconeum]

I'm crossing my fingers that the action starts once the last person gets into the game

Blake why are you following zeebu onto Aubrey? What do you think of Voted sheeping?
Also why did you vote away from your confscum read?

[Iconeum]

voted hasn't done anything scummy and you know it

[Iconeum]

zeebu's nothing is more vote-worthy imo

[Iconeum]

VOTE: zeebu

[Iconeum]

If ur scum you might as well just end it here and now

[Iconeum]

Both Blake and Persivul's vote on Aubrey are pretty scummy

[Iconeum]

Scum would be much more relaxed when being wagoned if they have a doc claim up their sleeve

[Iconeum]

I think zeebu's low-hanging as scum

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE: Aubrey

This wagon is bad.

-Blake

Why were you parked on it before I escalated it?

Why did you L-1 Aubrey on such a wagon?

[Iconeum]

Voted's a bad afk vote anyway because VLA

[Iconeum]

@Aubrey: It's not my fault you claimed without intent. My vote showed me that Blake was leaving the wagon and neither Saudade nor Iconeum were jumping on with intent. There would have been no harm to you if you had just kept your mouth shut. I made it clear that a hammer without intent was not acceptable.

You cannot expect to shift blame of his claim onto himself. You put him on L-1 after being wagoned for poor reasons. You never mentioned any kind of reason why.
What did you expect was gonna happen? What kind of scenario was town!you trying to force here?

[Iconeum]

zeebu's more interesting

[Iconeum]

Persi so far is my strongest tr.
Both hydras are tl for me, though I do need BW to explain their sudden shift on LJ.
Aubrey, one thing that strikes me as odd is that you told LJ in #189 to keep calm with the game, yet you lose your patience as soon as you're at L-1.
And yes, Ico's sudden shift is sticking out to me. "Scum would be calmer if they had a Doc claim ready" is not exactly convincing,

due to no guarantee that a PR is town

. VOTE: Iconeum

That's exactly why I said I think it's town. If scum were being wagoned like that, they would feel far less insecure about it because they know they have a good claim that would save them. The way he handled the wagon and the claim feels very much like town.
I believe the way he acted on his wagon and claim is AI and towny.

[Iconeum]

There's also 0 reason for you guys to keep voting on the doc claim. The captain will get to sort that slot.

[Iconeum]

I'm saying that since anyone can be a PR, the good Doc claim might not have necessarily saved him had the wagon been serious.

And I think that a scum with a doc-claim up his sleeve is far more likely to be less nervous during such a wagon.

[Iconeum]

There's also 0 reason for you guys to keep voting on the doc claim. The captain will get to sort that slot.

The problem I see with this is that, for a scum!Doc, it's easy to simply obey and then kill someone who they're not protecting.

While this is true, there are other means to sort if you are the captain.

[Iconeum]

I don't see scum in Voted

[Iconeum]

Barely content, sure. But is trying to stir things up a bit at least. This is how Voted plays to get reads (and is usually more active in the same way, but now VLA and that's NAI).

[Iconeum]

Zeebu on the other hand, has even less posts and all but 1 are fluf.

And the 1 with content is not sitting well with me

[Iconeum]

But is trying to stir things up a bit at least.

Show your work, I see no evidence of this.

-Blake

Self-voting as a reaction test. Sheeping a wagon same reason. I'm not a personal fan of those plays, but I don't scumread Voted for them.

[Iconeum]

But is trying to stir things up a bit at least.

Show your work, I see no evidence of this.

-Blake

As an addendum to this, I'm actually seeing evidence of him attempting to

not

do this.

Assuming that he, as town, plays to try to bait reactions like this every game, his play this game should be raising red flags instead of looking town.

-Blake

The slot's literally VLA...

[Iconeum]

I'm surprised Saudude settles so easily for a vote on Voted

[Iconeum]

Perhaps so. VLA ends today so hopefully more content to work with soon.

What do you think about Saudude's play this game?

[Iconeum]

Fair enough

Yo saudude I know ur around wanna come and bring Zeebu to L-1?

[Iconeum]

Why only 1?

[Iconeum]

Liz and Jack is probably town.

-Blake

Because Liz and Jack is scum.

-Blake

[Iconeum]

How did they fail according to you?

[Iconeum]

So you made a post where you reduced the pressure. The L&J slot made exactly 1 post after that, in which they were casing Saudude and Aubrey, explaining their scumreads.
What's scum indicative about that?

[Iconeum]

So Saud/beezu/Voted scum for you

Why are beezu and Voted in your scumlist?

[Iconeum]

Well it's hard to question you about that list because it's pretty much where I am right now :p

Of those 3 i'd lynch beezu right now

[Iconeum]

Despite what some others here are saying I think there's a decent town block actually

[Iconeum]

Bad case of scuminitis?

[Iconeum]

Yeah we could cure that illness by giving you the R.O.P.E treatment. Highly effective.

Hope you get better soon and are able to play because day is running out

[Iconeum]

zeeby why the OMGUS vote?

[Iconeum]

zeebu's more interesting

at this point im still confused at how im a more interesting vote. the last post was a few days before this one and i was afk. what did i do that was interesting? useless posts and then a single vote on aubrey which folks jumped on and got to L-1. was everyone that desperate for a wagon right then or something? wouldnt more interesting things likely be found looking at who jumped on the wagon after i started it?

Because the posts that you did make were completely empty except for 1 vote. I'm not scumreading you for being afk a couple days, i'm scumreading you for the posts that you made while you were playing. Completely lacking any game-advancing or solving intent.

If you think this is a scum push on you, by all means go for it

[Iconeum]

Is sameone seriously scum reading Saudade this game?

Tell me why he’s town.

Would like to see this answered

[Iconeum]

zeebu's 85 is a very shallow vote. 'the tone seems to be throwing a little bit of shade' is worded very awkwardly.

Then 433 after a catch up Datisi is the strongest scumread because 'lots of setup talk'? I'm not saying there's been a whole lot of action, but there is plenty to base a read on that is more then setup talk. Feels like making a read to appear busy.

434 unexplained town read on pers which feels like following the general view of a town!Pers this game

435 calls me out for voting him. But 'doesn't mind it much' and basicly agrees it's a move to advance gamestate. --> yet it gives him bad vibes?

442 feels like a scum looking at his shopping list: 'so is this a PR or a PR AND an officer'? Scumteam is unlikely to be L&J + zeebu based on this interaction

494 is the real scumtell. A few posts ago zeebu has a 'strongest scumread' but that seems not enough to place a vote there. Any natural town would have placed a

[Iconeum]

* Any natural town would have placed a vote on your strongest scumread at that point.

[Iconeum]

zeebu first. LJ not scum with zeebu

[Iconeum]

Oh are you protecting your buddy?

[Iconeum]

Because misrepping me aint gonna work

I voted him and he's OMGUS'ing me. Not the other way around.
And he's only town if Liz would flip scum, which is highly unlikely at this point

[Iconeum]

You can vote your scumread but don't fucking misrep me bruh

Actually if beezu flips scum I'd say there is a very good chance of you being his buddy
Would explain your reluctance to look into the reasons why beezy is the better lynch here

[Iconeum]

Read 507 and tell me why i'm wrong

[Iconeum]

Just be quiet and let the king carry

I'm not gonna let you carry your scumbuddy here

[Iconeum]

Just be quiet and let the king carry

How can you complain about a dead game, barely have any content yourself, and then tell other players to shut up? Scumdude my man... help me lynch beezy and you may live a bit longer

[Iconeum]

Refusing to look into content but instead resorting to insulting is never gonna help town here. It's also sad.

[Iconeum]

Loving the wagon so far. Aubrey and Datisi would make for a lovely addition

[Iconeum]

If you don't wanna engage with me about actual content just fuck off and stop clouding this game

[Iconeum]

Why would a town!zeebu be posting reads, calling someone his top scumread (based on setup spec only) and NOT vote there?

[Iconeum]

I doubt we'd get enough support for a D1 saudude lynch but I really disliked his last few pages

zeebu what did you think of saud?

[Iconeum]

As much as I would like to punish Saud here, I'm restraining myself because you of all players would be best served to get rid of a tunneling Saud

[Iconeum]

ah fuck it if he's town it's just very poor play

VOTE: saudude

[Iconeum]

Still though, zeebu's not voting on his top scumread is equally pingy

[Iconeum]

what about it?

I can either vote for zeebu which i've explained plenty
Or I can vote for scumdude

What is there to gain right now with having zeebu at L-1?

[Iconeum]

Let's talk about it, Pers.

What does a town!saudude have to gain from handling me that way?

[Iconeum]

what about it?

I can either vote for zeebu which i've explained plenty
Or I can vote for scumdude

What is there to gain right now with having zeebu at L-1?

Lynching scum maybe?

Do you have concerns that me or Blake are scum? If not, then why did this wagon stall?

I'm fairly confident we have a town wagon there

[Iconeum]

Persivul, you comfortable with lynching zeebu right here and now?

[Iconeum]

at this point i'm not lynching outside of zeebu/Saud today

[Iconeum]

I want to talk mechanics just for 1 sec here:

In the OP it says that the captain has to direct the PR's during the night. In the link to the wiki however, it says the captain has to send it in during the DAY.
I just don't want to end the day without giving the captain a chance to send in actions if he hasn't do so already

[Iconeum]

lol hardclaim not captain

[Iconeum]

Do whatever you wish. When Zeebu flips town, I demand right to bug you with "I told you this would happen" and similar sentenses.

What's zeebu done to earn him conftown status in your eyes, Voted?

[Iconeum]

Yeah not even vote for the 1 player he was scumreading

[Iconeum]

I like Saudade because of tone and fact he started pushing lurkers.

Tone? Seriously?
Also pushing lurkers is one of the easiest ways to seem buys town as scum. To Judge on this alone isn't great.

[Iconeum]

Ico if you dont unvote me by the time i check this thread again im taking percis advice and roping you instead of liz

less crying more playing

[Iconeum]

Because the posts that you did make were completely empty except for 1 vote. I'm not scumreading you for being afk a couple days, i'm scumreading you for the posts that you made while you were playing. Completely lacking any game-advancing or solving intent.

If you think this is a scum push on you, by all means go for it

i wont argue that the posts made til that point werent great. there was only one with content and that was a vote on aubrey which apparently enough people agreed with the read at the time to have it go to L-1. after that post though, if you didnt notice, i went away for a while. some irl things came up and i was sick for a few days. im having a hard time still seeing what i did that was interesting. i made a few shitposts during RVS and then put a vote on aubrey. after that i left. i even got prodded.

so, answer these please:
was the shitposting during RVS AI?
was the post and vote on aubrey AI?
was the fact i went inactive for almost 400 posts AI?

at least one or all of those have to be a yes in order to make myself be the most interesting vote while i was inactive

shitposting AI? YES
vote on Aubry AI? YES
inactive? NO

[Iconeum]

zeebu, you also haven't explained why you didn't want to vote your scumread but instead went after me simply because I was voting you.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: zeebu

I'm ready for this day to be over.

[Iconeum]

Blake if you wanna talk about why you think i'm scum i'll be here

[Iconeum]

1. Liz and Jack (Anonymous Hydra)
2. Voted
3. Iconeum
4. Persivul
5. zeebu
6. Blake x Weiss (Blake Belladonna + Weiss Schnee)
7. Datisi
8. Saudade
9. Aubrey

aubrey - my original post on you was honest, you pinged me a bit so i put a vote on you. you ended up claiming doc and reading your iso i dont see any reason to not believe that youre town

saudade - active sorting and 0 fucks given. doesnt appear to be following anyones lead. i like this slot for town.

persivul - reading his iso he seemed pretty town early on... the hiccup is sheeping icon with a vote on me. i still want to understand how anything i did prior to me coming back from afk was AI. one weak read and a vote in 85? it couldnt have been that bad since it went all the way to L-1 in my absence. scummy

icon - i still dont understand why he was pushing me when i was away. it doesnt make sense to me and i just want to understand it. there is a healthy amount of omgus there and im annoyed with him in general. i find it hard to read him because of the annoyance. pretty null but i think trending towards town

voted - wild card. nothing he's posted has made much sense. i'd like to say town lean but the vote for himself and then the admitted sheep onto you (aubrey) was somewhat sketch. he was vla for a bit and then made a couple posts about L&J which seemed half hearted and went no where. then he posted several more posts of gibberish. he's got some relevant bits here and there but in general, i dont have a read. the gibberish reads as pretty NAI.

datisi - i called out as scum earlier. lots of setup talk that i considered AI since i saw it as posting just to post something useful. 366 was one of the more informative posts even though i dont agree with some of it. i dont like 541 at all. waiting for what? either way, im fine with what youre doing i guess. diving in the game harder has made me revise my opinion. youre probably town

l&j - scum. i dont like the claim. i believe that you are a power role and lieutenant, but not that youre town. i think your PR is of the variety that would be very beneficial to scum at some point to disobey. i think youre setting yourself up to disobey and draw out a claim on later days.

b&w - im having a ton of trouble reading this slot.

so there we go

This entire list is scum as hell.

1. Aubrey: why are you believing this claim to be town, but not the other PR claim?
2. Saudude: are you just kissing his ass because he believes you are town? Show me his posts where he is active sorting.
3. Persivul: You call him townie, but because he was voting you he's scum?
4. Icon: I've explained in several posts EXACTLY why I think ur scum. If you don't understand, go back and read them. Also, what changed? First I was scum for my case on you, now I'm town??
5. Voted: 'nothing this player has done has made much sense'. 'Town'. 'Also null'. WTF?
6. Datisi: I'm having trouble reading this slot myself so no comment
7. L&J: what part of the claim did you not like? What is different with Aubrey? I want you to explain what you mean by "i think your PR is of the variety that would be very beneficial to scum at some point to disobey. i think youre setting yourself up to disobey and draw out a claim on later days.'

[Iconeum]

And what points on your town checklist aren't marked?

[Iconeum]

Or, since you are scumreading me, what have I done to be on your list?

[Iconeum]

Yo Persi how's it feeling being on a wagon with zeebu and saudude?

[Iconeum]

Voted why are you townreading Saudude? I don't think you ever answered that

[Iconeum]

Yo Persi how's it feeling being on a wagon with zeebu and saudude?

Fine.

No particular order in groups:
Town: {Blake, Datisi, Aubrey, Iconeum}
Null: {Saudade, Voted}
Scum: {zeebu, Liz and Jack}

So, yes, I'm comfortable lynching zeebu now.

Hmmmm

[Iconeum]

You were also hesitant to go after a claimed PR LT on D1...
That's a pretty big turnaround in both your reads and mechanical preferred play

[Iconeum]

I think you established that already

[Iconeum]

Do you feel the need to poop?

[Iconeum]

Ico ill give you a kiss if you vote lizz n jacks slot

but there's scum on that wagon

[Iconeum]

Alternatively we could lynch actual scum

[Iconeum]

how lovely to see all those claimed PR's still alive

[Iconeum]

So Aubrey who did you protect this night?

[Iconeum]

Or, you know, didn't?

[Iconeum]

Why do you think you are still alive?

[Iconeum]

I am not automatically assuming scum would kill a PR over anyone else. I'm wondering why they chose not to. Especially with not 1 but 2 claims out there, 1 of which is a double winner.

[Iconeum]

It's important to get the doc claim in here asap

[Iconeum]

Also to point out that it's not just a claim. Doc can be very powerfull with fewer players and scum need to get rid of it, unless they know they can control it.

[Iconeum]

Why do you think you are still alive?

I don’t know. Maybe we were protected, probably by doc?

Or maybe scum believed us to be an easy mislynch and didn’t want to waste an NK on us?

We were were at L-1 at one point I believe - right after my replace out, so we are obviously on the shortlist for pushable mislynch candidates.

I just think it’s beyond stupid and incomprehensible to me that not a single player is asking, “why Blake & Weiss?”

Don’t you find that really weird? I can’t recall a single game ever when players in a game never even thought about that.

~Liz

It's a very good question, but it needs to be combined with 'why not any of the 2 claimed PRs'. A town captain is likely to appoint doc on you, but i disagree scum would let an opportunity to kill off the doc early slip. They can kill the threat to them on N2, without having to worry about the doc being alive.

[Iconeum]

It's a gamble on scum part to do that. Because you hope to get a mislynch on the doc, and then the wagon will be dissected giving town information while you could relatively easy kill doc during night, and then not have to worry about him for the rest of the game.

[Iconeum]

I am not automatically assuming scum would kill a PR over anyone else. I'm wondering why they chose not to. Especially with not 1 but 2 claims out there,

1 of which is a double winner.

This concerns me honestly. If scum didn't try to get rid of an Officer, does that mean at least one of the Officers is scum?

What concerns me is that scum had the opportunity to go after the doc, after which they could easily target the next PR that is also a LT. This is speculation, but relates directly to why they chose B&W.

It implies that scum is in the commander structure, yes.

It's Always a good scum strategy to kill off the better players, but in this game particularly I feel they would have been much more tempted to go after doc so why didn't they do that.

Liz, I agree it makes little sense for scum!Aubrey to kill Blake. But if the slot is town, why is it still alive?

[Iconeum]

I agree with Pers that either captain or doc is scum. It's the only logical conclusion.

However you don't need to tunnel Liz because of policy right now… We can further discuss this most interesting kill (and especially lack of death among the PR's) first

[Iconeum]

You’re pushing the one slot who is asking why B & W were killed? Why is that?

If captain is town, they will confirm at some point that we obeyed and that will clear us. You are either unbelievably stupid town or scum.

Kenneth thinks you and Icon are the scumteam but I still think Icon is town. I was leaning Daitsi because of B & W NK but there is no way town!you lynches the one slot who is asking about why B & W over PR. This isn’t a town mindset.

VOTE: Persival

After our flip, I want this to be powerlynched.

Hold it right there, cowboy. Consider the fact that it's probably the most easy position in the world for scum to come out and claim why nobody is questioning the NK. You were super eager to claim all the credit for it, while downsizing the importance of the PR's being alive. Not calling you scum for this, but it's not out of this world for scum to fake that and you know this …

Having the captain confirm you obeyed proves nothing, in most cases.

fp'd by the everyone and their mothers

[Iconeum]

we need doc to claim before this day ends wtf

[Iconeum]

In fact, with the doc being alive right now, Liz needs to claim action target and result

[Iconeum]

But they scum

we can still use their information

[Iconeum]

I'm serious about Liz hydra claiming btw

[Iconeum]

8. Follower/Voyeur clarification: Jailkeeper=Protective/Voyeur=Informative/Follower=Informative/Rolecop=Informative/Bodyguard=Protective/Motivator=Supportive/Doctor=Protective/Poisoner=Killing. Also, the Follower cannot detect the factional kill.

Follower cannot detect factional kill so...

[Iconeum]

Ico over datisi please

plz no

[Iconeum]

Cant we just get liz tho

After they and the doc claimed

[Iconeum]

And with that out of the way, I see very little merit in calling themselves conf town when they out

[Iconeum]

Ico over datisi please

plz no

Bend over daddy is coming

I had a reply ready but i'd rather not get banned

[Iconeum]

Kenneth just explained to me why our result can’t be confirmed, so I’m being dumb. :/

@Persi, why wouldn't scum!us have NK’d you - if you’re actually town here - instead of Blake/Weiss, two players you're very familiar with and also townread you?

Blake has an extremely accurate BoP on me and has never wrongly townread me, although she has wrongly scumread me before.

~L

Claim

[Iconeum]

I'd put it to L-1 to force claim but I think *someone* might quickhammer so consider this intent

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jack and Kenneth
Can't vote Liz. She replaced out.

Is this L1

yes

[Iconeum]

why holding out on full claim?

[Iconeum]

Target?

[Iconeum]

So let's assume for a moment you would be able to follow the scum NK, barring following that 1 specific player, how did you think you could clear yourself again?
Smells like a bluff

[Iconeum]

On page 38. Won’t get caught up until later tonight probably.

plz claim your target

[Iconeum]

ehehehe Saudude got no action at night

[Iconeum]

Pers.

oh cool the captain's scum

[Iconeum]

town captain would protect the other PR

[Iconeum]

town captain would protect the other PR

other PR that is also LT*

[Iconeum]

Captain should claim and explain actions

[Iconeum]

It would solve a lot of this debate

[Iconeum]

town captain would protect the other PR

How can you be so sure? A lot of players were/are sr the other PR. Town!them could be a great lynch bait?

town captain would protect the other PR

other PR that is also LT*

We are/were once again at L-1, so why do you keep thinking captain would have doc would protect us?

You kept going on about how you would be conftown so I could see a pretty good reason to protect you

[Iconeum]

The captain needs to claim and explain, seriously

[Iconeum]

I'm not doing anything before the captain claims.

[Iconeum]

Iconeum, don't you want a whole mass claim?

I do but it srarts with the captain

[Iconeum]

Are y’all really shocked pers got protected?

It also solves nothing for the captain to come forward. If it does plz explain. Because I’m not seeing it with my itty bitty brain.

Pretty sure I know who it is though.

If you know who the captain is, call him out so we can lynch him

[Iconeum]

yes, pers is a very very very strange choice given the information available

it does solve quite a bit

if you know who it is, tell us so we can move on

[Iconeum]

If you know who the captain is, call him out so we can lynch him

Lets pretend Iconeum is captain and lynch it.

I think it's obvious i'm not the captain?

Also the captain has to explain his decisions rather then we lynch him.

Everyone should just claim captain or not captain

soo… not captain

[Iconeum]

Ugh fine it was already way too Obvious for scum anyway

I'm the JK and I got directed to persivul ^^

[Iconeum]

I am not lynching outside Datisi Iconeum.
Today we can still afford to mislynch one of them.

I do but it srarts with the captain

The captain is scum. WTF makes you think they'll claim?

Who is willing to lynch Iconeum?

I'd honestly prefer if Ico claimed first.

Are y’all really shocked pers got protected?

I am surprised Pers got protected and isn't captain.

I’m not a fan of this call the captain out thing. If scum are not in our chain of command it only helps them to out the captain.

And that's what's pinging me about Ico.

It also solves nothing for the captain to come forward. If it does plz explain. Because I’m not seeing it with my itty bitty brain.

If you know who the captain is, call him out so we can lynch him

Lets pretend Iconeum is captain and lynch it.

Because of reasons. Nobody was interested in going for captain claim, and I can only make it that obvious before scum catched on.

[Iconeum]

There's no more reason for anyone to hold back on who they think the captain is. He's 100% confirmed scum

[Iconeum]

unless you believe that town captain would send both doc and JK to pers, i suppose

[Iconeum]

I actually do believe that.

So if you are town captain, and you have a doc AND a jailkeeper

You would send both to Persivul?
And not maybe try to protect Blake, protect the doc, protect yourself? Like, you would send BOTH of them on the same person? Why?

[Iconeum]

Why would a scum!doc or scum!JK disobey protecting Persivul? They'd out themselves as scum!pr while there are a bunch of other good NK options

[Iconeum]

Fine

VOTE: jack and kenneth

[Iconeum]

I do but it srarts with the captain

The captain is scum. WTF makes you think they'll claim?

So have you given up on this? Or is LJK/me the Hot New Scumteam?

I consider it at least doubtfull the captain would have claimed like you have

[Iconeum]

Ugh fine it was already way too Obvious for scum anyway

I'm the JK and I got directed to persivul ^^

What? Persi gets both doc’d and jailkept? Why not either one on Blake & Weiss?

2 protectives and not one on the mostly obvtown player in the game?

are you still wondering why i wanted to out the captain?

[Iconeum]

I can only come to the conclusion doc is scum wtf

[Iconeum]

doc or follower is scum

[Iconeum]

omg this wifom is killing me

[Iconeum]

If I assume the command structure is town, then scum want to kill there. A claimed LT being a PR is the juiciest target in the world then.

But with a doc claim, they can't safely kill it because any sane captain would put the doc there. Scum didn't kill the doc, so doc = scum?

BUT BUT if doc = scum, then scum KNEW that the LT + PR was not docc'd in the first place. So scared of another PR? Unlikely there's not many protection roles out there...

[Iconeum]

but they didn't

[Iconeum]

and they also didn't attempt to setup a N2 assassination of the LT by taking out the doc

Let's kill Jack slot

[Iconeum]

Jack slot, that's possible. But can you give us your thoughts on why NEITHER of the claimed PR's were targeted? Including the fact that one of those is also a commander?

[Iconeum]

The key to solving this game is in correctly determing scum motivation for their actions here

[Iconeum]

I believe you bring up a very valid point that you are unlikely to select BW as the NK because of his townread on you.
So which scumteam would kill off BW with all the other potential out there and why?

[Iconeum]

Not that I could see

[Iconeum]

I'm not even mentioning the fact that I think BW slot was widely townread, and likely to be receiving some kind of protection… which points towards doc or captain being scum

[Iconeum]

Yes, I'm extremely sorry I didn't send a protective onto a player I had a slight scumlean on.

I don't think you made a mistake by not protecting the BW slot. And putting a JK onto the doc is a bit counter-productive unless you had good reason to think scum comes after doc… Which makes this even more confusing

[Iconeum]

Jack slot, that's possible. But can you give us your thoughts on why NEITHER of the claimed PR's were targeted? Including the fact that one of those is also a commander?

Liz, please call me Liz. Who is a commander? We’re follower Lieutenant.

Bad wording. With commander I meant in the command structure
Not that that makes a big difference?

[Iconeum]

Yes, I'm extremely sorry I didn't send a protective onto a player I had a slight scumlean on.

I don't think you made a mistake by not protecting the BW slot. And putting a JK onto the doc is a bit counter-productive unless you had good reason to think scum comes after doc… Which makes this even more confusing

I didn't put the JK onto the doc, what are you on about?

I know you didn't. I say I don't think you could have protected the doc by JK'ing him. Persivul makes good sense to protect, but I didn't expect you to double dip him.

[Iconeum]

Commander hasn't claimed. First you're against outing the Captain, now you want to out the Commander as well?

I'll put this here loud and clear: I don't want to out the Commander

[Iconeum]

I'm not even mentioning the fact that I think BW slot was widely townread, and likely to be receiving some kind of protection… which points towards doc or captain being scum

Why would it point to doc being scum? Doc doesn’t have any say in who they protect.

no but it allows scum to work around the protect

[Iconeum]

By that logic you would also be tr Persi?

And I skimmed through it while already knowing all the roles.

Liz, what about the Persi townread by BW? Any reason why that shouldn't apply to him as well?

[Iconeum]

Does it serv scum interest in claiming JK right now?....because at a quick glance I’d say no. Which sucks cause I really dislike icon pushing this scum narrative on me.

'Pushing a scum narrative on you' is relative. Captain put 2 protects onto Pers, and neither of the claimed PR's got sniped. There was a claimed Doc, and scum didn't bother to kill him. Now with a JK claim out, they don't know for sure if they can kill me.

All of the above starts to make sense if EITHER captain OR doc is scum because then scum have control over the actions...
Do you agree or not?

Feels like you’ve just hounded her for a illogical play, but not once touching on the scum motive for the double protect. She could have still protected you and pers. and killed BW as scum. If she doesn’t TR a slot she has no purpose in protecting it in her eyes.

Town make mistakes/questionable plays, scum make planned intentional plays. What part of this double protect fills a scum motive?

I agree with this. Making an illogical play (from your own PoV), does not = scum. Liz is really playing around with perspective and motives this day, making it fit their narrative. 'BW tr Aubrey, so Aubrey is not likely to kill BW.' 'Pers is scum though, even despite BW tr'ing them'. It doesn't make sense.

Saudude is also looking bad, not solving or participating.
I would be most comfortable in deleting Liz slot today.

[Iconeum]

Michael Scott is town because Nancy left her scumrange before replacing out

.

-Blake

Some reason you’re ignoring this, Icon?

Are you seriously shocked that I’m having trouble tr you rn?

My dude i'm seriously confused this game

that BW kill doesn't make sense and the only 'logical' conclusion I can draw from it is that I'm scum because Association and I know i'm not scum

I'm fairly sure there's scum in you/Aubrey because mechanics and I think Aubrey is more likely town

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE: jack

[Iconeum]

You know I agree with A and B.

[Iconeum]

Entirely not sold on Pers as scum

The only other slot that had something to gain from BW kill is saudude

[Iconeum]

Saud's been calling your lynch all game, and when on L-2 the entire time he doesn't wanna vote there

[Iconeum]

It may not mean much but Saudude might be the only one crazy enough to kill BW

[Iconeum]

It may not mean much but Saudude might be the only one crazy enough to kill BW

B & W were obvtown leaders though, so I don’t know why killing them would necessarily be considered “crazy”? I still think that they were killed because they were preventing our mislynch, so unless you can convince me Persi is town, I still prefer him to Saudade.

I think that it’s probably unlikely that they’re SvS, since generally scumteams wouldn’t want to be this obvious.

I consider it crazy because I'd go after the doc. They didn't, so I have to assume doc is either scum, or controlleable by scum.

Maybe i'm looking into this too much and should just relook into my scumreads without mechanics

[Iconeum]

V/LA weekend

[Iconeum]

god fucking damnit why the fuck does everyone keep replacing out for these fucking reasons

there should be a rule that everyone who replaces out of a game for such bullshit reasons is banned for a month or 3

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

[Iconeum]

i'm glad you didn't

we need a voice of reason this game

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Persival

[Iconeum]

Ico selfvoted again?

again?

[Iconeum]

whatever

VOTE: Saudude

[Iconeum]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Persivul-Liz 1v1?

[Iconeum]

I felt Persivul as annoyed town, and Liz as the scum. However the logical argument of NK-selection is holding me back.

It's never SvS, I think.

If Saudude flips scum, that would clear Liz as well.

[Iconeum]

whatever

VOTE: Saudude

This is L-1 btw

[Iconeum]

Not sure what I think about it tbh. I want to believe there's at least one scum in that 1v1. Anyway, I'll hammer this in some 8 hours, so if anyone has anything to say before we end the day, now's the time.

If Saudude flips scum then Liz is cleared as far as I'm concerned. Scum!dude doesn't tunnel his buddy like that?
And I don't really scumread the AtE from Persivul.

If the dude flips town, then I'm likely back on Liz wagon tomorrow

I think it's a usefull flip.

[Iconeum]

We are alright with a Saudade lynch since he is in our POE. But if he flips town and we are nightkilled tonight, we expect our solve of Persivul/Icon for the scumteam to be sheeped. Don’t overthink it.

- Jack (Volxen)

in what world do you think you are the NK?

[Iconeum]

Unless scum have control over the PR's, they are hitting either of the protective roles because having 2 killstoppers is too strong for town otherwise

[Iconeum]

Why is Liz slot scum?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: liz and jack
That's for voting and unvoting for no reason you random generator fluff machine

That's where it all started. Everything else came later, and you added as the game progressed. But it's a weak baseline...

Am I missing something?

[Iconeum]

Tempted to just end it all

Convince me to lynch Liz over you today?

[Iconeum]

Tbh you are scum by poe too so I dont feel like dancing for you lol its pointless

why the fuck would I claim JK and try to out the captain as scum?

[Iconeum]

It's so funny i'm literally dying here

[Iconeum]

UNVOTE:

Ill read tomorrow

[Iconeum]

ok scum iconeum might not have risked that when doc aubrey was the best target so it goes back to why blake was killed instead of aubrey and I'm pretty sure it was because voted was the win condition and they were scared blake would be the one that would stop it.

Can we just ignore players? We have two scum who don't have any control over power roles and who don't know what the power roles are apart from the doc? Do they really have the balls to let that strong foursome live?

The NK on BW is a tough one to dissect. Liz hydra had little to gain killing them, over say a doc. But then again, neither did Pers and they keep twisting this information to fit a narrative which i dislike.

I'm fine lynching saudude or Liz slot, I'm never lynching the Pers slot this day.

[Iconeum]

@Ico, what about lynching Voted?

I always have a very hard time reading Voted. Went through that ISO twice already, and I don't know what to think. Nothing really pings me though, or I'd have pushed it already. More comfortable lynching in actual scumreads

[Iconeum]

LJK you asked me not to mech solve.

I think you stop trying to solve based on "blake has been known to not correctly read persi"

This really bothers me about the LJK slot. They are using blake's townread to justify themselves as conftown for not killing someone townreading them, but they turn it around when it involves

another

blake townread

[Iconeum]

Then we will have a conflict in our reads, if you are including both saudude and LJK in your townpool.

[Iconeum]

Vote aubrey

I'm going to use occams razor.

Lynching the claimed doc huh

[Iconeum]

I'd give Aubrey another night. If this slot survives another night, we should kill it tomorrow I think. Scum are not gonna leave the doc alive, wifom included

[Iconeum]

why would Aubrey claim the doc like it did? long-term mafia thinking would know that they would be questioned for surviving

[Iconeum]

I think it's better to force scum in lynching a claimed doc, or having to deal with assisting in a mislynch on the next day

[Iconeum]

That would probably be the middle ground, yes

[Iconeum]

I can't make sense of Voted ISO, read through it again. There's definitely sorting in there, but willing to lynch Saudude is a strange progression…

[Iconeum]

I think I'm choosing LJK slot over Voted for lynch

[Iconeum]

I can't make sense of Voted ISO, read through it again. There's definitely sorting in there, but willing to lynch Saudude is a strange progression…

Voted going for Saudude feels more like lost town then scum looking for a lynch

[Iconeum]

Feels to me like LKJ slot is trying to get out from an unwinneable 1v1 with you, Redpanda

[Iconeum]

Aubrey

[Iconeum]

ljk partner can only be you ice

then consider this a hard bus and say thank you

[Iconeum]

It's the scenario that makes most sense to me mechanically speaking.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: LJK

[Iconeum]

@captain, you know what to do with the doc, right?

[Iconeum]

I feel like I’m being set up to live and mislynched.

not if the captain survives

[Iconeum]

but you might take a bullet, though