micro 1017 is over party

[skitter30]

Nullish, maybe nulltown if i feel generous

I know its at the start of the game, but it exhibits a certain level of oaranoia of me in that you're expecting to be hesitant to townread me
What changed in that you think you *should* be townreading me at thia this point

[tʃɹɪs]

it's been a while, but i think i had a good sense fro when you're town at one point. to be honest, my memory is a little fuzzy, but i feel like you should be doing something that makes me think you're town

[Retti]

I don't find that to be particularly compelling reasoning.

[tʃɹɪs]

when you're scum, i think you do stuff that passes as town, and i don't think you act obviously scummy, but it lacks something

[tʃɹɪs]

I don't find that to be particularly compelling reasoning.

why is skitter town

[tʃɹɪs]

i remember having come to the conclusion that skitter is best treated as scum until proven otherwise.

[tʃɹɪs]

i remember having come to the conclusion that skitter is best treated as scum until proven otherwise.

i'm nowhere near ready to let skitter be town.

i think these are definitely compatible with each other

[tʃɹɪs]

i am 50% absolutely sure that skitter is scum

[tʃɹɪs]

it's the one on the left who thinks that

[Retti]

I don't find that to be particularly compelling reasoning.

why is skitter town

Beyond her moving to proactively sorting early, her hesitant wariness toward Rhyme felt like the how someone acts when they are suspicious of another player they have a degree of familiarity with, it was believable to me. I also feel like we've had a confluence of ideas a few times like in our reaction to pob long, in a more holistic view she just feels Fine? I dunno, the argument of "not townie enough" isn't really how I'd be looking at things at all on day 1.

tris, if I can level with you, your whole catchup felt like what I've done as scum where I grab a bunch of posts and just vomit out something in reply to look like I am Being Productive and Doing Things (I got called out on this pretty hard last time and had to go into defensive claws out mode in response). It just felt like, Are these the posts a town player chooses to comment on as they are reading the game? And I'm skeptical on that end. Additionally your reads were pretty consensusy and uncontroversial, and your whole turn on skitter here feels like it's motivated by her pointing that out and expressing suspicion toward you more than anything else.

[tʃɹɪs]

I don't find that to be particularly compelling reasoning.

why is skitter town

Beyond her moving to proactively sorting early

i think this is a thing skitter would just do normally.

her hesitant wariness toward Rhyme felt like the how someone acts when they are suspicious of another player they have a degree of familiarity with, it was believable to me.

differentiate this from scum dancing around a player who they have a degree of familiarity with. what things here are specifically what you're describing that wouldn't also be scum?

in a more holistic view she just feels Fine?

idk. i think skitter often feels Fine.

[tʃɹɪs]

tris, if I can level with you, your whole catchup felt like what I've done as scum where I grab a bunch of posts and just vomit out something in reply to look like I am Being Productive and Doing Things (I got called out on this pretty hard last time and had to go into defensive claws out mode in response). It just felt like, Are these the posts a town player chooses to comment on as they are reading the game? And I'm skeptical on that end. Additionally your reads were pretty consensusy and uncontroversial, and your whole turn on skitter here feels like it's motivated by her pointing that out and expressing suspicion toward you more than anything else.

@skitter; how do you think this fits with how i tend to be as scum or town?

[Retti]

differentiate this from scum dancing around a player who they have a degree of familiarity with. what things here are specifically what you're describing that wouldn't also be scum?

In general I find people tend to be more suspicious of those they're familiar with when they roll town, at least initially, and that manifests as a sort of paranoia toward those they know. Whereas when you roll scum with someone you know in the game, you're going to be more cautious, your concern is about getting caught, the engagement tends to be a bit more halting and awkward. Faking a believable sort of paranoia is a hard thing to do. I'm slightly contrasting this with my own experiences, where I just awkwardly townread my friend and then mostly shadowed his reads. While I'm not skitter and can't say for sure how she'd do things, it felt believable in the way she went about it.
(this is true only for people who aren't meta-circlejerkers who want to take the side of their friends no matter what)

[Retti]

tris, if I can level with you, your whole catchup felt like what I've done as scum where I grab a bunch of posts and just vomit out something in reply to look like I am Being Productive and Doing Things (I got called out on this pretty hard last time and had to go into defensive claws out mode in response). It just felt like, Are these the posts a town player chooses to comment on as they are reading the game? And I'm skeptical on that end. Additionally your reads were pretty consensusy and uncontroversial, and your whole turn on skitter here feels like it's motivated by her pointing that out and expressing suspicion toward you more than anything else.

@skitter; how do you think this fits with how i tend to be as scum or town?

...why are you asking her that?

[tʃɹɪs]

wouldn't scum!skitter also notice menalque acting weird? this wasn't random paranoia. there was a strong reason here that could easily be picked up on by scum i would think.

[tʃɹɪs]

tris, if I can level with you, your whole catchup felt like what I've done as scum where I grab a bunch of posts and just vomit out something in reply to look like I am Being Productive and Doing Things (I got called out on this pretty hard last time and had to go into defensive claws out mode in response). It just felt like, Are these the posts a town player chooses to comment on as they are reading the game? And I'm skeptical on that end. Additionally your reads were pretty consensusy and uncontroversial, and your whole turn on skitter here feels like it's motivated by her pointing that out and expressing suspicion toward you more than anything else.

@skitter; how do you think this fits with how i tend to be as scum or town?

...why are you asking her that?

because i want to understand how she's thinking about me

[Datisi]

i will now pretend to make a good wallpost

zzz has bugspray returned yet? no? okay

@pob long

do you have any townreads?

Your response immediately after

could you link what you're referring to here?

toogeloo's contributions so far feel Fine. like nothing insanely townie but no red flags either i think. however, i feel like they're more likely town than not bc i was recently following along a normal that noraa was modding (and by following along, i mean i was skimming the game and looking at flips) and i saw toog won was scum in a f3. and in the postgame, they commented how they have a high scum winrate (which i did look at, it's true). and their play here feels decently relaxed, plus they don't seem to really be interested in forcing themselves into people's townreads, or taking control of the game, which i imagine ~skilled~ scum would be doing here?

Now everyone has similar reads >.>

i wanted to comment on this - i'm not sure this is true? (i'm gonna take the liberty of assuming this is meant in a sense of "everyone is fine with consensus, therefore the consensus is wrong.) like, sure, up to now a decent amount of people expressed a scumread on bugs, but what i find interesting is that that wagon has completely stagnated despite multiple people expressing that they're fine with it? which uh, kinda reminds me of some recent games, where there was a wagon building / consensus read on scum, and most people seemed ~fine~ with it, while the wagon was dead and scum was hoping that the town finds a new shiny distraction.

like, i know the issue is that bugspray has not yet addressed the wagon on them and the game is lowkey stuck here, but i don't think that's necessarily a cause for concern yet?

@t3

could you address my 256 and 257?

i think i've talked about datisi already;

you've only mentioned liking my 33, and like surely that's not the whole basis for "feeling pretty good about datisi being town"? >_>

Some words (esp at the beginning of sentences) auto-capitalize on my phone

fun fact: i turned off auto-capitalization on my phone just so i could do my ~all lowercase aesthetic~ easier when i'm phoneposting

usually when skitter argues with someone, i either get a feeling of "something is Wrong with this argument, there is a Wolf here somewhere" or "no, this is Fine", and the skitt/tris argument feels like it's boring me more than anything else

i'm getting a bad gut ping from tris because she was also playing in that 09:12 game i linked earlier, and i'm kinda... weirded out? that the mentions of that meta boil down to "ok" and "i think that's true". like idunno, idk if tris is a fan of meta or not, but i expected a bit stronger reaction to it? like the two games really felt widely different to me and maybe i'm disappointed that someone else is not noticing it as much as i am but it feels weird

hOweVeR i'm also getting townie pings because in my head idk if scum!tris attacks town!skitter here? like my only experience with tris is with town!her in that game, but i don't remember her being like, an overwhelming presence. and i imagine most people are less of a presence when they're scum than town. so like idk if this is the path scum!tris takes here? especially since, her reasons for attacking skitt are kinda weak? like i agree they're unconvincing, but they're unconvincing to the point where i'm not sure scum!tris outs them bc what is she imagining she is accomplishing here

now i know i might be (probably am) talking out of my ass here so if someone in this game who has more exp with tris could enlighten me on whether this is a Thing scum!tris would Do, that would be lovely

fuck i need more townreads

can mena come back and townspew pls

[skitter30]

i remember having come to the conclusion that skitter is best treated as scum until proven otherwise.

I think this us isually more in the sense of 'man maybe she's scum, we cant really trust her reads or pushes' and less in the sense of 'she's a good vote because i'm not sure we can townread her' two irl days into day1

I also dont really think it makes sense to argue 'we should all be paranoid of skitter' and 'she's scummy because i dont townread her yet' at the same time. If i'm good enuf to be that paranoid over i dont think it should be a red flag that you dont yet townread me on p13

I also basically feel like you're looking for reasons to vote me

And what retti said abt 'commenting on random posts' resonates quite a bit too

[skitter30]

@skitter; how do you think this fits with how i tend to be as scum or town?

More likely to come from scum with the caveat that i dont rememner your playstyle too well offhand

Its more a thing that i've noticed scum in general do and less a thing that i've noticed scum*you* do if thay makes sense

[skitter30]

wouldn't scum!skitter also notice menalque acting weird? this wasn't random paranoia. there was a strong reason here that could easily be picked up on by scum i would think.

I mean yes but i dunno if i call him out on it

[skitter30]

i wanted to comment on this - i'm not sure this is true? (i'm gonna take the liberty of assuming this is meant in a sense of "everyone is fine with consensus, therefore the consensus is wrong.) like, sure, up to now a decent amount of people expressed a scumread on bugs, but what i find interesting is that that wagon has completely stagnated despite multiple people expressing that they're fine with it? which uh, kinda reminds me of some recent games, where there was a wagon building / consensus read on scum, and most people seemed ~fine~ with it, while the wagon was dead and scum was hoping that the town finds a new shiny distraction.

I meant this more in tje sense of 'now the game is boring because nothing os gonna happen and there's nothing to talk abt'
The reads are consensus-y but i actually dont mind it *too* much, i'm p sure bugs is scum and i think my townreads are p solid, so we just have to go through everyone else

[skitter30]

hOweVeR i'm also getting townie pings because in my head idk if scum!tris attacks town!skitter here?

I'm kinda thinking this too, esp since she was on my scumteam in the TM game i basically won ...

But idk something feels off to me abt this interaction, it almost feels like she wants to find me scum and is therefore looking for ways she can
It doesnt feel like a sincere argument on her end, its not something she actually believes but rather something she wants to argue i think

[Datisi]

i wanted to comment on this - i'm not sure this is true? (i'm gonna take the liberty of assuming this is meant in a sense of "everyone is fine with consensus, therefore the consensus is wrong.) like, sure, up to now a decent amount of people expressed a scumread on bugs, but what i find interesting is that that wagon has completely stagnated despite multiple people expressing that they're fine with it? which uh, kinda reminds me of some recent games, where there was a wagon building / consensus read on scum, and most people seemed ~fine~ with it, while the wagon was dead and scum was hoping that the town finds a new shiny distraction.

I meant this more in tje sense of 'now the game is boring because nothing os gonna happen and there's nothing to talk abt'
The reads are consensus-y but i actually dont mind it *too* much, i'm p sure bugs is scum and i think my townreads are p solid, so we just have to go through everyone else

after you quoted this, i noticed that i opened the quotation marks there but i didn't close them and now i cannot unsee it and it's gonna bug me for the remainder of

the game

my life

and alright, gotcha. i feel like i've seen you make the "consensus reads bad" arguments before (tho i can't immediately remember where) so i kinda thought that what what you were saying there. strangely i kinda enjoy not being in a spamfest for once?

hOweVeR i'm also getting townie pings because in my head idk if scum!tris attacks town!skitter here?

I'm kinda thinking this too, esp since she was on my scumteam in the TM game i basically won ...

But idk something feels off to me abt this interaction, it almost feels like she wants to find me scum and is therefore looking for ways she can
It doesnt feel like a sincere argument on her end, its not something she actually believes but rather something she wants to argue i think

yeah like idk. i definitely agree that her arguments don't really feel genuine/sincere and somehow off putting. but they're like that to the point where i think that scum!tris would be aware that they're coming across like that? and coupled with the fact that she is trying to attack *skitter* with them? just like what is the upside here?

i guess tris could be a scum reverse-psychology too-scummy-to-be-scum mastermind (which is why i asked for if anyone has that kind of meta on her) but i don't really believe it? and like as i'm typing this i'm perfectly aware that the last time i was like "wow this person doesn't look good but i do not ~believe~ that they're scum" they ended up being scum but /shrug. my heart does not believe.

[Rhyme and Reason]

I'm kinda thinking this too, esp since she was on my scumteam in the TM game i basically won

I don't think this is a wise basis to read someone on, do you remember misclearing me in C9++ because you thought I wouldn't CC you? rings to me of being the same thing, and I don't think tris is really picking a fight with you here, plus bugs is scummy enough that she may feel safe today even if scum

~Rhyme

[Rhyme and Reason]

Is there a reason why we haven't yeetethed the bugspray yet?

~Rhyme