Micro 1023 - The Coalition: TBotITGBSMoD [game over]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.08

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-08-13 20:45:00).

coalition

PookyTheMagicalBear [5]:

GuiltyLion, PookyTheMagicalBear, Art, The Cheek of Gamma, Vulture
---

GuiltyLion [5]:

GuiltyLion, Vulture, PookyTheMagicalBear, The Cheek of Gamma, implosion
---

Uncle Shelby [5]:

The Coalition, PookyTheMagicalBear, Black Ranger, Uncle Shelby, Vulture
---

implosion [5]:

implosion, Vulture, Black Ranger, GuiltyLion, The Cheek of Gamma
---

The Cheek of Gamma [4]:

The Cheek of Gamma, PookyTheMagicalBear, implosion, GuiltyLion
---

The Coalition [3]:

The Coalition, PookyTheMagicalBear, implosion
---

Black Ranger [3]:

implosion, Uncle Shelby, Black Ranger
---

Art [3]:

Vulture, GuiltyLion, PookyTheMagicalBear
---

Vulture [0]:

yeet

The Coalition [3]:

GuiltyLion, The Cheek of Gamma, Art

The Cheek of Gamma [2]:

Black Ranger, Uncle Shelby

PookyTheMagicalBear [1]:

PookyTheMagicalBear

not voting [3]:

implosion, Vulture, The Coalition

mod notes

~ my vote counter does not work for heal votes, which means i'm counting everything by hand. please yell at me if i miss any votes.

flavour

[The Cheek of Gamma]

Implosion is oldschool and sees scum focus on mech like clockwork and he should be shot on sight.

This is, not true? I generally don't consider almost anything like "focusing on mech" to be alignment-indicative outside of context, and I think the context of the tone in which Vulture did it is townish.

Scum might focus on mechanics sometimes but it was page three and and Vulture had already said they were going to drop it at that point.

Like,

Implosion's read is literally "they seem nice enough talking about mech"

This is a drastic mischaracterization. In fact I pointed out the second line of 61 which is specifically not being like, especially "nice". The "scorched earth" rhetoric is something I think scum would be reticent to say because scum naturally will want to get into the coalition (so as to not automatically lose) and would probably have an instinct to not want to literally burn it down afterward.

implo, what level would you rank your scumplay at in terms of mimicing town thought?

your lines are like so extremely appealing to my reading method it almost scares me which is why I ask LOL

@art no not SvS.
~C

[The Cheek of Gamma]

Your case feels a little reach-y in a way that doesn't jive with me. Given that you were the topic of conversation I read over your iso and thought it was fine but meh. Might just be early game.

What is your read on Coalition here?

Mmm. Townlean.

I don't get how this is Dory.
~C

[The Cheek of Gamma]

I always thought I was cultured and understood art on a deeper level. MS paint has proven me wrong.
~C

[The Cheek of Gamma]

boring

cringe
-G

[The Cheek of Gamma]

This set up would mean that at least one scum must be townread to prevent town from winning so I'm a little more concerned about consensus townreads based on not much compared to slots like uncle and black ranger. Particularly those who townread us early on, like Pooky and GL. GL I'm fine with now but there's something fishy going on.
~ C

While I myself am wary of easy TRs I don’t think GL and Pooky are the slots to look at when looking for those on us at least
-G

[The Cheek of Gamma]

Also I have to say I also find a lot of Art’s posts somewhat vague, I can extract some meaning but not much
-G

[GuiltyLion]

also i see the linked scum games from GL and will look at them later. in retrospect they've been showing a lot of depth in their posts and i've been straight up ignoring that in lieu of my ego being hurt.

and sorry for the outburst last night, i still get tilted by shade on my slot for shit that isn't even AI for me. I get pushed on d1 nearly every game. This shows that people in general just can't accurately read my early game and to a person who has never played with me - it leans more they think they can push me for what I say because for whatever reason my playstyle looks "scummy" to people.

I can def understand being frustrated with being pushed on d1 for shitty reasons as town and I apologize if the way I was pushing them made you feel minimized or unable to play your way

I'm not sold this post means a town!Coalition but I do want to dial back from fixing my gamestate view via that early scumread I was operating from and reset a little bit, I definitely think if we're both town then removing both of us from the Coalition prob gives scum a cakewalk to make it into the next phase, I'll give you some space and focus elsewhere for a bit.

I have a bad habit as town of trying to bend the gamestate around my reads and while it works really well when my reads are good, it can fuck things up if I'm wrong and it does make me more prone to being manipulative towards how others play or form their own reads. It recently let scum push me as the game-winning miselimination in Divide and Conquer because I had given town enough reasons to be paranoid about me and I don't want to set myself up for the same pitfall here

[GuiltyLion]

GL reasoning works backwards, starting at "this person is X" and then tries to manufacture reasons for it. I'm not sure where people get townreads on that but its like blatantly scum and I'm vetoing all coalitions with them on it.

a) where do you see me doing that?
b) Do you disagree with any of my townreads (Iverson, Cheek, Vulture) in my coalition? If not, this is a bizarrely harsh reaction to the fact that I'm scumreading you

Why does b matter to you?

because if Coalition and I arrive at the same group of townreads, and I am correct about those reads, then it either forces scum!Coalition to keep three townies in their coalition, or it means town!Coalition is reading the game the same way I am and perhaps I am wrong about them being scum.

This post doesn't leave room at all for the possibility of Vulture!scum. Is this intentional, GL? ie your read is just that confident?

Yes, that was intentional - I still think 61 is likely a bonafide townslip and that the odds of implosion and Vulture being exactly the team is low enough that it wasn't worth considering when evaluating possible scum!agenda to implosion's read.

I feel like this question is sort of missing the point of what I was asking Iverson - you're right I didn't explicitly consider the benefit to scum!implosion townreading a scumbuddy!Vulture, but I think that'd be a really backwards way of scumreading implosion, even if I wasn't townreading Vulture. To arrive at a scumread on implosion specifically because he was subtly trying to put his buddy Vulture into the town block, it would require me to assume that Vulture is scum, to assume that Vulture's scumbuddy is more likely to attempt to TR him by page 3, and then to identify implosion as the player advancing that agenda.

Put another way, it feels like I would have to think "hm, why would implosion townread Vulture here? the most likely answer is that both of them are scum and implosion wants to TR his buddy!" It doesn't strike me as an organic way to reason about implosion's alignment, and it doesn't feel to me like you're really considering that.

[GuiltyLion]

How am I threatened by your coalition when it's literally the same as mine?! Especially when you updated it to match mine after I pressured you to do so + the last one w/ Shelby not making sense?

How can you say a coalition with me+Vulture makes no sense, meanwhile you have Iverson+implosion in yours?

because all you had done at that point was push Vulture, you'd given no townreads, no real content to arrive at a solid read on your own slot. Basically, the only way I can imagine someone thinking at that point that you are townie enough to be in a coalition is if they vibe with your Vulture scumread. If they thought Vulture was town, then I don't see why they'd see your singular push on him as town-motivated.

That's different from Iverson who, despite pushing implosion, was giving a lot of engagement/reads elsewhere and had also fleshed out his implosion read enough that it was harder for me to see as being faked or agenda-driven.

[GuiltyLion]

i read the first 4 pages and only managed to get a townread on imp

simply because i really hated post 27. it looked like a giant spotlight saying, "hey, there's scum in here". when you point at one person it's tough to have something stick but when you spotlight two players it's a lot easier to have criticism to be valid for at least one of them. based on the state of this page i'd say it had an effect.

HEAL: implosion
HEAL: Uncle Shelby
HEAL: Black Ranger

VOTE: CheekofGamma

Now this is interesting. To be clear, my understanding of calling two players "unaligned" is that they are not S-S, not necessarily that it is S-T. I believe this was Cheeky's intention as well iirc. Anyway, 11 posts later, I said the same thing about Iverson/Cheek, but I've ended up in your coalition, and Cheek ends up with a vote? I'm not sure I understand your process.

this is the first Shelby point that I actually like (it feels like the rest of their catchup posts/questions up to this point are more centered around finding 'gotcha!' contradictions than they demonstrate genuine solving, or interpreting people's posts with charitable intent)

but there's a part of me that kinda feels like this could be distancing? The last sentence is really tentative tonally compared to some of their posts about me and Cheek ("I don't like this, this doesn't look great, this looks fake, what the hell?", etc)

[The Coalition]

also i see the linked scum games from GL and will look at them later. in retrospect they've been showing a lot of depth in their posts and i've been straight up ignoring that in lieu of my ego being hurt.

and sorry for the outburst last night, i still get tilted by shade on my slot for shit that isn't even AI for me. I get pushed on d1 nearly every game. This shows that people in general just can't accurately read my early game and to a person who has never played with me - it leans more they think they can push me for what I say because for whatever reason my playstyle looks "scummy" to people.

I can def understand being frustrated with being pushed on d1 for shitty reasons as town and I apologize if the way I was pushing them made you feel minimized or unable to play your way

I'm not sold this post means a town!Coalition but I do want to dial back from fixing my gamestate view via that early scumread I was operating from and reset a little bit, I definitely think if we're both town then removing both of us from the Coalition prob gives scum a cakewalk to make it into the next phase, I'll give you some space and focus elsewhere for a bit.

I have a bad habit as town of trying to bend the gamestate around my reads and while it works really well when my reads are good, it can fuck things up if I'm wrong and it does make me more prone to being manipulative towards how others play or form their own reads. It recently let scum push me as the game-winning miselimination in Divide and Conquer because I had given town enough reasons to be paranoid about me and I don't want to set myself up for the same pitfall here

lol part of why I dialed back was like - your playstyle here reminds me a lot of my own. like strikingly similar. thus why it makes sense we arrived at similar townreads like you said - because we read the game in a very similar manner

[The Coalition]

something i noticed this morning is that I got the vibe the black ranger entered the game playing in a way that feels "safe". Not coalitioning that slot likely.

[The Coalition]

that being said,

v/la until potentially august 5th, not necessary unable to play but I have other things i need to get done IRL and mafia is getting in the way

[GuiltyLion]

implo can you talk about why you have Black Ranger in your coalition? I'm really ambivalent on them overall, don't have a meaningful read either way from what they've posted so far

[The Cheek of Gamma]

GL what made you locktown Iverson?
~ C

[The Cheek of Gamma]

implo can you talk about why you have Black Ranger in your coalition? I'm really ambivalent on them overall, don't have a meaningful read either way from what they've posted so far

I have a false memory of asking this already. I'd be interested in this too.

@uncle shelby why is Black Ranger in your coalition?
~ C

[Uncle Shelby]

Cheeky, you've ignored a pretty simple and direct question from me twice now.

[The Cheek of Gamma]

Cheeky, you've ignored a pretty simple and direct question from me twice now.

Yeah I'm not wasting my breath spoon feeding you pretty simple logic. I said what I meant in a non cryptic way. GL elaborated your approach pretty nicely this page.
~ C

[The Cheek of Gamma]

their catchup posts/questions up to this point are more centered around finding 'gotcha!' contradictions than they demonstrate genuine solving, or interpreting people's posts with charitable intent

[Art]

[implosion]

When Black Ranger said "I like Art " I initially thought it was a really townish thing to say if he was implying Art was town, because I can't imagine much impetus for scum to call Art town at that point regardless of Art's alignment. Even though it was just spurring on the mspaint for some reason some of that feeling has lingered and I am somewhat townreading that post as being off-the-cuff.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

PookyTheMagicalBear [5]: GuiltyLion, PookyTheMagicalBear, Art, The Cheek of Gamma, Vulture

does any1 have a problem with my coalition

lets hear some criticism.

"im not on it" is not a valid complaint.

[implosion]

i suspect essentially everyone has a problem with your coalition

[implosion]

Except Art, Art is probably fine with it.