Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Andante

She was scum in the last game so she's probably scum again.

[Umlaut]

I've put people at L–1 on page one as town, I would do it again, and I think forming big wagons out of the gate is a good thing. I don't find it suspicious at all. It's a slightly audacious move which I think is if anything a

very very weak

town tell since drawing attention is not a natural thing for scum to do so early.

VOTE: dwlee99

i like this wagon more, andante's kinda idk flashed up

This on the other hand is bad.

VOTE: mc esther

[Umlaut]

I've seen town hammer without warning plenty of times, but not in RVS, at least not intentionally (may have happened once or twice in newbie games).

Come to think of it I think it's wildly unlikely that scum would ever put an E-1 vote on someone with the motive "maybe some town player will lolhammer!" It's just not a remotely likely strategy to ever work. Even if you told me Roadkill is scum I still wouldn't believe that was their motive here, and I agree I'd like Andante to clarify how plausible she really finds this idea.

[Umlaut]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

Oh well if you say so.

Everyone, Esther has clarified that her post isn't bad, nothing to see here.

[Umlaut]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

Oh well if you say so.

Everyone, Esther has clarified that her post isn't bad, nothing to see here.

"Bad" is a loose term, anyway. What did you even mean when you called her post bad? Did you mean it was a post a wolf was more likely to make? Did you mean it was anti-town or illogical? Did you simply disagree with what it was saying? Those are all valid interpretations and even though I assume it's the first I can't actually be sure.

You could be calling her post bad and she could be denying it and you might even both agree with each other but you have different definitions.

I've used "bad" as casual shorthand myself so I'm not trying to act superior. I've just given it some thought and maybe instead of calling things "bad" (or, on that subject, using the impossibly vague and somewhat offensive "gross") we could make it a habit to explain what we mean in precise terms.

This post is bad too. It's obvious in the context of voting her for it that I mean it's scummy, writing three paragraphs about how it's potentially ambiguous is just a way to do busywork.

Esther's post was bad because "andante's kinda idk flashed up" is a BS reason not to like it. It would be fine at least as RVS posts go if it were just "andante wagon is already E-1" or even just "I like this wagon more" with no explanation. Actually the 34-35 vote jump reads +town for me though, it's a bit more extra credit work than I expect from scum who would probably just say in 35 something like "actually third on both but still" rather than change their vote based on it. Looks like Three and Roadkill saw the same thing as I did from 41 and 45, which makes me feel pretty good about them too.

Going against the grain on Dwlee here, I don't think they're hard definite town or anything like that but 38 seems like a difficult post for scum to make since it basically says "as town I'm likely to do [the opposite of what I'm doing here]"

That leaves {Wh4t, joqiza, Sleepless Assassin, Andante}. Of these I think I'll

VOTE: joqiza

because 39 rubbed me the wrong way and his other posts (23, 27, 40) similarly look like busywork. Also if I squint 19 sort of seems like a misrep because it demands citations of something (town lolhammering

in RVS

specifically) that Andante didn't actually claim ever occurred.

[Umlaut]

Thoughts on the others:

Wh4t

is null untill they say more. If they don't say more they'll eventually enter policy yeet territory, but the game is still young.

Sleepless Assassin

is also null. Posts up through 26 are pretty empty. 31 contains some IMO weird reads but not scummy-weird, I just don't agree that town are less likely than scum to E-1 someone early and I don't see how the move to voting MC Esther "confirms" anything about Dwlee's demeanor. 33 seems kind of pointless/fluffy, same for 46, and... actually maybe I'm leaning scum here now that I read more carefully.

Andante

is in the same "not enough material to say" null category as Wh4t. I'm pretty ambivalent about their popping in just to say "omg I'm at E-1 what the heck"

[Umlaut]

I will eat a hat if Andante is scum.

I'll go back and address earlier comments to me in the morning, just want to get that out there.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, how is explaining my reads on Dwelee and Roadkill fluffy? Also your reads are about opposite mine so... yeah. This game could be awkward.

33 is explaining a read? You're reading Dwlee as scum for... being more concerned about the post limit than you? That's novel.

46 is pointless/fluffy because (1) explaining to Roadkill that he's scum is a fundamentally pointless exercise, and (2) it doesn't go anywhere, just sort of peters out with "I could see it as maybe opportunistic/scummy but also maybe not"

as for the reads themselves, umlaut: why do you think scum would have an issue presenting something they might do and then subvert it (58)? the post you linked, 38, isn't a very intense descriptor of play and even has it stated as some games, as in, sometimes dwlee will not go wild, so it's... it's not really difficult to go against something you only do sometimes.

also, is 19 really a misrep? you're stretching, but also... the context makes sense? we were around rvs, and andante mentioned lolhammering, to me that feels like... the connection made that andante fears being lolhammered in rvs/that point of the game.

(i have some other thoughts on your joqiza read but i think they're best chewed upon until you reply to him/if you do.)

I don't think it's impossible for scum to make a post like 58, and you're right that they only say

sometimes

so it's not exactly conclusive. But I think the natural inclination is to try to match one's own idea of how one plays as town, or at least how one claims to play as town. I think Dwlee would more likely just not make that comment at all if scum.

I'm really not voting Joq for 19, that was an afterthought as I was rereading their posts, but let me go ahead and explain it anyway. I realize Andante was indeed talking about a threat of being hammered during RVS, but, like, let me make an analogy here:

• Alice tells Bob, "Watch out while you're walking around outside today, there have been a lot of muggings in the area"
  
• Bob asks, "When has there been a mugging recently during the day?"
  
• Alice admits, "Actually they were all at night, come to think of it."

Maybe this is a good rejoinder on Bob's part, but it isn't catching Alice in any sort contradiction. She may well have been legitimately concerned, and even if she doesn't need to be in this case it doesn't mean she was being disingenuous. She probably just didn't think of that aspect.

What Joq posted was:

Going to ask you to cite examples of town lolhammering someone in RVS because it's pretty rare in my experience. I'm not sure I believe that

you

believe that you were just going to get run up and die.

He wasn't trying to reassure Andante or clarify anything, he was specifically suggesting that Andante was lying and didn't really believe she could be in danger. That is a misrep, intentional or not.

I will admit that the way Joq has doubled down on criticizing words as simple as "bad" leads me to think that, regardless of alignment, he really means it and isn't

just

language-policing as a substitute for playing the game.

[Umlaut]

? you seemed really damning on joqiza and put him at the bottom of your readslist, im surprised he's not your automatic vote? what's the hesitation, like, im assuming you have some reason to believe he might be town after all?

I was thinking the same thing.

Something caught my eye here. Let me get this straight: you're saying that upon your return to thread, your method of catching up was to ISO slots one by one.

Instead of... just reading the 5 pages of the game?

WTF?

I don't think this is actually that strange (I did pretty much that to form reads on the players in my "that leaves..." category in my earlier post) but even if it were strange, how is it alignment-indicative?

Andante has zero reason to tryhard like that given gamestate if scum. Don't understand the vote there at all

Agree. Actually I guess I agree with Dwlee more than Dwlee does since they sort of walked this back in 119. I guess not

zero

reason to tryhard as scum but I fail to see how it helps advance a scum agenda to be so unnecessarily thorough.

I'm in a position right now where I'm pushing a scumread and getting absolutely no traction. Perhaps contrary to popular belief I do not see this as a good signal. From my perspective all the points I'm bringing up are being ignored and Andante is being defended for reasons I don't think are particularly AI.

There are two universes in which this could occur. In the universe where she's a wolf, she has at most one wolf partner to defend her; in this universe there are multiple villagers who are just completely blind to her scumminess. The other universe is the one where she's town and in this one there are two wolves who could take the position to defend her, my scumread is based on my own flawed perception, and there are villagers defending her because they're picking up on the town notes that I'm unable to see. When I compare the two universes I need to ask myself the question, "Do I really think I'm smarter than everyone else?" And the answer right now is, not really, no.

So what I'm getting from this is... you think there is likely scum defending Andante in the event that she's town? I can buy that. Whom do you have in mind particularly?

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE: Joqiza

I have a really hard time seeing him as scum despite my reservations about his early posting. I just think posts like 121 and 127 exhibit a transparency and thought process that are difficult for scum to forge. I should probably meta-dive at some point to see what Joq's scum game looks like but pending that I like him for town. (I also have to admit I just like his style, even when I disagree with the point, which may be biasing me a bit but I have to call it how I feel it.)

I need to rethink my reads across the board, but for now let's try this:

VOTE: Three

Something about what Joqiza said about him "seem[ing] to stay out of the conflict" in 124 made me want to revisit his ISO and, well, it's hard to even point out what specifically I dislike about it but I recommend everyone read it themselves and see what they think. Everything there just feels very

safe

to me. I think his best attempt at analysis is 71 and even that is just, like, okay, and doesn't really reach any kind of conclusion or even conclude with a lean one way or the other.

For the record I think Wh4t's one substantive post is a bit on the towny side, for pretty much the reason Roadkill just outlined.

(Pedit: Hi Looker!)

[Umlaut]

I haven't had much to say because the majority of the conversation has revolved around Andante vs Joqiza, and I just don't have much to say about it. I was watching mainly to look for alignment indicative stuff, but honestly I think it's just devolved into a long-winded slap fight. Just walls upon walls of essays thrown at each other to the point my eyes glaze over trying to read it. I think it would be better for the game state and everyone's WIM if both of them let it go for now and interact with other people more for a bit.

So talk about something other than "the majority of the conversation"? If you don't like what people are talking about, talk about something else. This is not a good excuse.

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Assuming this is true, it would mean Looker was able to determine that Wh4t is scum based on their two (2) posts. So unless you think Looker is a god-tier reader who can correctly determine alignment in ways other players cannot hope to fathom, you should be able to point out what is scummy about those posts themselves. Otherwise this basis for a policy lim is complete nonsense.

I'd really like Andante to try and explain for herself what makes her say Looker's slot is scum.

[Umlaut]

I like it too. Join me on Three?

[Umlaut]

Pagetop!

[Umlaut]

the thing that really sucks is, i actually agree with andante on looker's replacement behaviour as maf (another 12 hours with no comment from him, yeah lol, it's not exactly looking better is it?). im really not happy about voting with her but.

I don't recall your having a problem voting with Andante. In fact weren't you already voting with her on Joq? Where is this coming from?

[Umlaut]

I'm around, just haven't had anything stick out to me since my last post (and it's also been hard to get to a real keyboard today and I hate posting on mobile). I'm not exactly townreading Looker so I could settle for yeeting there, but I think my reasons for voting Three are good and I'm kind of disappointed no one has followed me. Would like to know people's reads on that slot.

[Umlaut]

You don't trust what exactly? The vote? What does "trusting a vote" mean?

[Umlaut]

More votes/opinions on Three plz

VOTE: mc esther
I'll go here then if no one wants to vote looker

Weird thing to say right after I say I'm willing to compromise on Looker.

[Umlaut]

We have less than 36 hours. Let's consolidate.

Of the players with votes currently on them, I'm never voting Esther or Andante and not likely to vote Dwlee. That leaves Three or Looker.

[Umlaut]

Joq, if you insist on voting Dwlee over Three right now then I'm going to have to move to the Looker wagon and get others to move there too, because I don't think there's enough support to push Three through without you and I don't want to wait until the last second to get a claim. This would likely mean you end up having to compromise on your third choice as opposed to your second. Switch to Three please?

[Umlaut]

Ugh, okay. I'm considering it. Why are you opposed to voting Dwlee? The argument that it's uncharacteristic of him to not engage with the game felt, well... it was convincing to me, I guess. I've played with a lot of wolves who just struggle to post as that alignment. Do you disagree with that meta or is there some reason to TR him through it?

I believe I've played with Dwlee before but don't remember anything about it and can't even think of a particular game so I'm in no position to disagree with the meta claim. I just don't think that's a very convincing argument in the first place, because (unless I missed something) it is missing the other half where any meta claim is presented about Dwlee's typical

scum

play. Activity tells and player like you described do exist but in general I think players who have a lot to say usually have a lot to say as either alignment, and if a seven-year scummer seems less engaged in a particular game it is most likely because of something other than the color of their role PM. It also seems like a lot of players have been more disengaged than usual in this game (I know I've had moments of struggling to find something meaningful to say) and I don't think it's reasonable to single out Dwlee for criticism in that regard.

Dwlee is not in my "never ever launch" category but they've made a couple of posts I read as at least mildly towny (38, 74) and not really any I read as scummy.

[Umlaut]

You're genuinely trying to claim that, as scum, I made such an apparently bizarre statement without not only thinking it through, I also said it for literally no reason? Like what do I gain out of it as scum? To needlessly get suspicion thrown at me? It's like you saw a weird statement and just took it at face value as scummy, but didn't think through any of the logistics or reasoning for

why

scum would do that.

It doesn't really need a more complex reason than "demonstrate engagement with the game and give some not-too-committal opinion on Looker, who seems to be a subject of conversation right now"

[Umlaut]

Requoting this to remind everyone what Three's original comment actually is:

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Esther and I have both pointed out that this is a flawed reasoning process (

even if

Looker hadn't pre-committed to replacing in before anyone ever posted), because Looker's opinion of what kind of slot he was replacing into should not be any sort of basis for a lim, policy or otherwise. That in itself is not a reason why Three is scummy, because town have flawed reasoning processes all the time. Why Three is scummy is because he has responded to having this pointed out by alternately defending it as reasonable and saying that isn't actually what he was saying, both in the same post (169). Also because 136 makes in-game excuses for not having more to say and I take those sorts of excuses as generally incriminating. My opinion is that town are more likely to feel somewhat guilty about not contributing more and react with some contrition when this is pointed out, whereas scum are more likely to defend that they have already done enough, or as much as can be expected.

[Umlaut]

Er, we have

a day

and 47 (now 43) minutes. It's definitely time to hustle but there's no reason to set off false alarms.

[Umlaut]

I actually don't care. If you'd rather play word police and vote people because they said something you don't like instead of just playing Mafia, then be my guest. I don't have the mental energy or capacity to argue against "you said policy lim Looker so you're scum" and I don't know I'm supposed to react to that or towntell off of it.

Scum post, 100%.

You should care if you get launched over your scumreads, particularly when there are still other viable wagons.

[Umlaut]

That is like a textbook "it's nbd to me if you all suck" post that scum

think

they should make to look like unworried town when actual town would in fact be worried

pedit

someone unvote esther now pls

[Umlaut]

But Three does that every game. It's his hallmark.

I've never played a game with Three that I can recall. Link me?

[Umlaut]

I could see a Sleepless launch, but I think it was pretty clear in context that the vote on Esther was E-1 so "not saying" is not really in itself a big deal.

[Umlaut]

Going on record that I will pivot to Sleepless if it becomes the bigger wagon. I've never seen a reason to townread them this game and Esther raises some good points (plus this ought to help me pocket her more, mwahaha).

[Umlaut]

Three should claim in next post.

[Umlaut]

Less than three hours left. I think it's reasonable not to wait around for Three at this point.

[Umlaut]

Perfect! Thanks for the eleventh-hour betrayal, I appreciate it.

[Umlaut]

My bad on Three, folks, I feel like I was the one who really championed that wagon.

I'm thinking Umlaut or Roadkill -

@Dwlee99

, what do you think?

• Umlaut pushed both the Cop and the miselim, so maybe he's in control as scum (leader)?
  
• Roadkill pushed the Cop and Andante (lack of OMGUS is interesting), and wasn't on any wagon at EOD

Sleepless did ride Dwlee through the day, though

First of all, I did

what?

I pushed the cop? Are you talking about my vote for her on page one? Because the last time I gave any kind of read on Esther it was

Of the players with votes currently on them, I'm never voting Esther or Andante and not likely to vote Dwlee.

which is not very much of a push.

Secondly, even if this were true, how would the fact that the person I pushed later turned out to be a Cop be relevant to my alignment? I checked the setup and there's no Mafia Night 0 Rolecop.

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 1.09

Three

(5):

Umlaut

, joqiza,

mc esther

, Dwlee99, Andante

Dwlee99 (3):

Three

, Sleepless Assassin, Looker

Not Voting (1):

Roadkill

I colored myself green because I'm town, if you disagree then make your own post.

If someone was scum on Three's wagon then I think it's got to be Dwlee. I'm not totally ruling out that no one was scum on Three's wagon.

Agree with Roadkill's reasoning that there's probably no doctor. Although I think it might have been better not to say it, I think saying it anyway is somehow town-indicative? Like, scum wouldn't do it because of the optics.

[Umlaut]

Wow don't everyone post at once here

[Umlaut]

Three wasn't random, at least not from my perspective. I cased him and then voted him Wrong in retrospect, of course, but not random at all.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Dwlee I'll join the vote here, you guys realize you have to talk and/or vote people for anything to happen...

For some reason I thought this was E-1 but it's not, it's E-2. I'm a bit more comfortable with the idea of a Dwlee launch today than yesterday, so I wouldn't really complain even if it were E-1 even though obviously we should get a bit more done today.

@Joq

Come back, we miss you.

[Umlaut]

No hammer until Joq posts or gets replaced pls

[Umlaut]

I don't think maf in you/sleepless/roadkill is a bad thought, like, you're pushing dwlee more than sleepless or roadkill. I Started the day voting sleepless, and your instant reaction was "why sleepless?" so that implies sleepless is either your partner or you tr them. And here you're all "ather than wagon with me on either of the two I've already agreed to vote, you'd just vote me" like, did you agree to vote sleepless?? you seemed to ignore anything said about sleepless.

This is actually a good point. I can think of a possible response from Looker but I'd like to know what they have to say about it first.

In my first few games with Looker I constantly thought they were scum and it turned out they were town so I'm relying on others a bit more for that because I acknowledge I'm bad at sorting them. I've never seen Looker's scum game to my knowledge.

---

Welcome back, Joqiza. Thoughts on current wagons?

---

VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

Let's try this. I took a look at his late day 1 ISO and got some pings, which combined with Andante's comments makes this an interesting idea.

[Umlaut]

Mostly vibes tbh, sometimes I do deeper reading but I've been lazy lately and this game doesn't have much to go on.

[Umlaut]

More like I usually find your reads and perspective on the game strange and hard to understand, and I'm reminding myself that that doesn't necessarily mean they are offered in bad faith.

[Umlaut]

Oh damn, there are only three days?

More people follow me onto Sleepless pls. I’ll try to make an actual case sometime tonight.

[Umlaut]

I honestly don't have anyone in this game I would consider especially a friend, and I'm certainly not using likeability as a proxy for towniness, if that's what you're implying.

[Umlaut]

So, Sleepless, I have a question.

Unvote, Vote Mc Esther

Too much Dwelee resistance to make it happen. We have 47 minutes.

I believe that regardless of your alignment this was an honest mistake. But that's actually convenient because it allows us to see that under time pressure you are willing to switch votes, Dwlee -> Esther.

Oh shit. I thought it was today. Well... I still think Dwelee isn't happening. This at least gives mc esther time to claim if anyone was thinking of hammering.

Doubling down on the above! Even with an additional day you were willing to

stay

on MC, despite thinking Dwlee was the likely scum, because a Dwlee launch just wasn't happening. As of a day away from deadline

Vote Dwelee

I don't think this goes through but I'm willing to try.

My question, Sleepless, is what happened between these last two posts that made you willing to try for Dwlee again and not to just jump on the biggest wagon? After all, you recognized that

Honestly, to do anything other than Three and maybe Looker, someone's gonna have to bend a little.

so unless you were prepared to make an effort to bend someone, why wouldn't you just vote whichever of those two you were townreading less?

I want you to explain this because it makes your vote on Dwlee seem more like a protest vote than a serious attempt to get them launched. I think these sorts of protest votes are more likely to come from scum who don't want to seem too enthusiastic about being on a wagon that flips green.

[Umlaut]

Weren't you worried about a deadline crunch leaving us having to hammer someone without a claim (which in fact is what happened)?

[Umlaut]

Yeah, what I meant is, you (Sleepless) didn't seem concerned that by waiting until the last second on Three/Roadkill we would be forced to hammer without a claim, in the way that you said you were concerned about that

vis a vis

MC Esther.

[Umlaut]

I'm TRing Looker I think. And I still feel good about Roadkill. I still don't think Sleepless/Dwlee are ever partnered, so that leaves me with two possibilities:

1) Andante is a wolf, and town!Umlaut's TR on her is wrong
2) I miscleared Umlaut and he's powerwolfing us

In possibility two, Umlaut's most likely partner is Dwlee, who he's been chainsawing for. (Could theoretically be partnered with Andante herself, but I think him saying he'd "eat a hat" if she flipped scum is... too bold for SvS).

Still need to dig into Dwlee activity stuff. Should have some time this evening.

If I take this reasoning seriously then I have to conclude Andante is a wolf. In that case who do you think is

her

most likely partner?

[Umlaut]

Oh right, you posted that chart on the last page.

I was interested in seeing whether Andante would be willing to follow me onto Sleepless given that

I want Looker/Sleepless today

which was part of why it was "interesting" -- a couple of people who are otherwise at odds have said Sleepless is a launch candidate for them, so I wanted to see who would actually vote them if they became a plausible wagon. But pretty much no one followed me there so I can't get anything from that.

Even though I've kind of tipped my hand, I will still put this out there explicitly: Andante, I am much more interested in launching Sleepless than Looker atm, so why not join me there? Looker is going to be a hard sell for you.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Sleepless

ok lets go here, Joq vote my partner. easy

Well... this is what I was afraid of. This is pretty stone-cold if it's a bluff. Now I'm really not sure what to make of the game.

Spoiler: To be fair

I did pretty much dare Andante to make that vote.

prodding dwlee99.

Hmm.

Maybe Looker is right that Dwlee is willfully ignoring this game. They've certainly made enough posts on site in the last 48 hours.

[Umlaut]

Will hammer Dwlee if it comes down to it.

Looker, do you read Sleeper as town now? Weren't they formerly on your would-yeet list?

[Umlaut]

Okay, 3 vs. 3, let's leave it up to Joq then. I at least trust that he's town.

Looker, do you read Sleeper as town now? Weren't they formerly on your would-yeet list?

This question was not purely rhetorical.

[Umlaut]

Okay, 3 vs. 3, let's leave it up to Joq then. I at least trust that he's town.

Looker, do you read Sleeper as town now? Weren't they formerly on your would-yeet list?

This question was not purely rhetorical.

I know it wasn't, but what's the point of asking this right before night phase?

Looker: "I don't read Sleepless as town"
Looker: *dies*
WIFOMing scum: *frame*

I feel like this should've been brought up back when I initially questioned you about Sleepless 4 days ago

Maybe it should have, you're right.

It took me several reads to figure out the framing scenario you're talking about here. You're saying that if you say you don't townread Sleepless,

and

Sleepless is town, the Mafia will kill you to make Sleepless look bad? That seems really contrived to me. Do you really think that specific scenario is much more likely than Mafia killing anyone else for any other reason?

[Umlaut]

I guess it's kind of too late to get a response to that but if we're still both around tomorrow you can answer me then.

[Umlaut]

Making another meaningless post just because I have so many to spare, wooooo

[Umlaut]

I was going to hammer myself if you seemed to be absent at the 20 minute mark; no real objection to your going ahead with it now.

[Umlaut]

Er, I was going to hammer

Dwlee

myself, not hammer myself.

[Umlaut]

Looking at the VC the obvious candidate here is Andante? It's kind of

too

obvious in that I feel like Andante was giving a full-throated defense of Dwlee and not some sort of "gee I'd rather go somewhere else." I mean, something something WIFOM but that is a tough thing for scum to do with a partner who is not making themselves easy to defend.

I guess another possibility is that SA and Dwlee wagons were

both

scum, but I haven't thought at all about how viable a pair that is.

[Umlaut]

That's... not what I said

[Umlaut]

Umlaut probably would kill Looker, like, aparently all yall TRed Looker, I SRed looker more than sleepless, so Umlaut here would be riding on me yelling "GET SLEEPLESS NOW" idk the kill makes absolutely 0 sense to me.

I have no thoughts about the nightkill, like, I have NO IDEA why looker over anyone else, unless the plan is to literally frame me here.

So I would probably kill Looker but you can't think of any reason why anyone would kill Looker?

In that case why would the kill point to me specifically?

[Umlaut]

Andante pivoting from me to Joq once it becomes clear no one else is voting me, without any explanation of why I'm suddenly town after all, makes me feel a lot less conflicted about voting there.

VOTE: Andante

E-1. I think Joq's points against SA/Roadkill scum are pretty cogent and I just don't believe Joq hammers his buddy over SA. If he did do that and also made a big show of thinking it through, purely as a performance to look town, then I doff my hat to him (while being relieved I don't have to eat it after all).

[Umlaut]

Wait, not E-1. I thought someone else had voted Andante but I guess not.

[Umlaut]

• Every player is allowed a maximum of 10 posts in a 24 hour period. In the 24 hour period immediately preceding a deadline, players are allowed a maximum of 15 posts. The definition of a 24 hour period must be provided by the moderator.
  
• Every player starts with a reserve of 20 additional posts. Any posts above the daily limit are subtracted from this reserve.

To answer your question: I have some thoughts about this and am continuing to form more, but in the event that you do flip green I don't think advertising which player I find towniest right now is a great idea.

[Umlaut]

I guess it isn't helpful for me to just sit here and wait for the end of the day, so I will comment on another player after all.

There was a point d1 where I mentioned I couldn't find a partner for Dwlee and SA said something along the lines of "I actually agree with you, but it's a D2 conversation." You've got to imagine that a scum player hellbussing on D1 is looking to set up the necessary mis-eliminations down the line, i.e. trying to find people to tie to their partner. SA wasn't doing anything like that, just seemed to be trying to noose Dwlee.

Actually, while I think this is a pretty reasonable argument against Dwlee/SA, I wouldn't call it conclusive. I can imagine a scenario where scum!SA just isn't thinking about who specifically he intends to push as Dwlee's partner after that flip, or if he does think about it decides it doesn't really matter as long as we believe it isn't him; in short, a scum!SA whose entire MO is just to look town and let the rest take care of itself. So if it came down to final 3 with SA in it I'd still have to consider him a yeet candidate.

[Umlaut]

final answer. Maf is joqiza

So, uh... what made you change your final answer here? Is there something about Joqiza's posts that changed your mind? Is there something Sleepless has done that changed your mind?

[Umlaut]

What kind of talk are you even looking for? You asked for my opinion on a player other than you, I (eventually) gave one, and you had nothing to say about it. Sleepless just responded to your scumread on him a few hours ago, offering some self-defensive questions that you could have answered, and instead you took a single sentence out of the third paragraph and spewed a bunch of sarcastic anger over it.

[Umlaut]

What kind of talk are you even looking for?

[Umlaut]

I think Andante has to be scum here. I just don't see any way

this

is how she posts as town knowing she's about to die at any time and has to get out her thoughts while she can. Neither 505 nor 508 is any attempt at all to start a discussion or to pick up any of the discussion topics that have been offered to her, she's just throwing herself a pity party and belittling us all for having the temerity to scumread her.

I'd appreciate it if someone could just hammer since it's clear no one has anything else to say today.

[Umlaut]

Can we just euthanize this poor wolf already. Look at her, she's suffering.

[Umlaut]

Thanks for bringing it home, Joq. I don't know that I would have decided correctly in your shoes.

I like the geriatric rules, and I think if they're used more often people will get accustomed to posting more and not being afraid they might run out.