Micro 1044: A Normal Blitz V - Game Over

[Cape90]

VOTE: Little Green Wheels

who thinks up this?

[Cape90]

VOTE: Jacket

Little Green Wheels is town I think, the post above me says so.

[Cape90]

VOTE: Jacket

Little Green Wheels is town I think, the post above me says so.

Okay. Why's that make me scum?

Yes. Animals.

VOTE: Jacket Because of you, Three still hates me

Gotta play to win.


VOTE: Little Green Wheels

Scummiest intro posts.

Just kinda didn't agree with this here.

[Cape90]

It's a gut read. It's fine if you disagree. It will likely end up meaningless in the long term. But why should making a gut read you disagree with make me mafia?

It's early game, what do you want a 500 word scumcase?

[Cape90]

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: Jacket

Unvoting this for now, I think they just might be serious town

[Cape90]

Just kinda didn't agree with this here.

hm

which intro posts did you think were the scummiest then?

I don't

like

reading off of intro posts in general, like most of them just seemed okay to me which made me question the seemingly serious read in 15, especially when I see a post like 20 which I can't help but not really like.

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

[Cape90]

So uh, I don't exactly know what I did Looker, but I am sorry and can tone it down

[Cape90]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

[Cape90]

i am having a very difficult time following their thought process as town

like it feels very a to f

I usually try to not overthink things until later on in the game. I feel like doing so only hurts me later on in the solving of the game

[Cape90]

it felt to me like cape was like, moving towards townreading jacket in what felt like a kinda forced progression to me, as the whole coalition approach that cape specifically cited as +town for jacket seemed pretty hmmmmm to me

You realize how early in the game it was right? Opinions can just change on the dime like that, scum can have towny intros and vice versa

[Cape90]

I think skiki is definitely town. Proactive in interactions and also I think 88 is a pretty towny response to Dorsey that makes a good amount of sense and I think shiki is relatively easy to follow along with as they are kinda assuming a town leader position as of currently

[Cape90]

mmm. cape didn't post inbetween these two posts. and i'm finding it kinda eyebrow-raising that jacket is allegedly leaning town on cape while at the same time questioning him in such a way? especially considering in 37 he says he's still sorting him. what's the townlean for, then?

Well, I would say just because Jacket questioned me early on doesn't mean they wouldn't have a townlean on me. Plus there is the fact that it is pretty early in the game, so you should definitely know that nothing is solidified, hence them still trying to sort me out.

Eh maybe me answering that wasn't helpful, but if Jacket is scum, he can copy .

I think disliking these 2 posts

i dislike 87 and i like 89

is a towny move since it seemed like you were leaning towards scumreading me.

oh wait

Datisi said they liked 89, which I agree with, but I don't really see how 26 and 87 are all that scummy besides they almost say the same thing which I do find noteworthy

I'll keep what I said for the credit i suppose.

[Cape90]

How have I just realized i never got off Jacket

VOTE: Vanderscamp

I prefer this

[Cape90]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

[Cape90]

is a towny move since it seemed like you were leaning towards scumreading me

i will say that me liking or disliking a post is only talking about what i think of the poster's alignment, not whether i agree with the post

okay. Thanks for clarifying.
I know it varies from person to person. Personally, I can say I like a post and think that a post is good, but could still think that a player is mafia or even go into the territory of being a good post, but also a good post that comes from mafia. I feel like I am rambling and I apologize for that, but if you think about it, there are "bad posts" that can be towny, very easily actually, so if that applies, the inverse also applies IMO

[Cape90]

Feeling was that he'd have more of a reason for an arbitrary wagon vote as scum.

what are you townreading him for, 17? i don't think scum would *need* to have an arbitrary reason to move their vote there, especially in the meme stage of the game. and like, umlaut is good enough at scum to think he can get away with a y-1 early i think

i'm not 100% on bugs, if that's what you're asking. but i have decent experience with them, and i do think my ability to read them is above rand, so. will let you know if i sense and changes.

I read 17 as a bit dry/monotone

[Cape90]

Spoiler:

Cape90, I hope you know that my vote on you means I personally dislike you and want you to die. You are horrible.

This is not acceptable, even in jest.

Little Green Wheels has requested replacement.
Datisi replaces Little Green Wheels.

O shit I am so sorry

Spoiler:

My joke was not funny and you didn't deserve that, Cape

It's okay, if you want me to simmer down my personality, just ask, I have no problems toning it down

[Cape90]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

[Cape90]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

it's like,

jacket says 'this the scummiest rvs!'

you disagree with this, but as you've clarified when questioned, this is because you think any reads based on rvs are questionable and that you thought jacket maybe was just trying to look busy, right

but if all reads based on rvs are questionable, and you didn't find any of the other posts scummier than the one pointed out just that you found it scummy for any of them to be pointed out, it's like ...

but then why would this be more likely mafia trying to look busy than town moving the game

? and what would have been a towny thing for anyone to be doing? continuing to rvs indefinitely?

but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger

as jacket was certainly doing things and saying 'i want to have conversations/produce content' but not really taking actions towards this goal but rather the building coalition goal

which was both not encouraging me/bugspray to have a conversation/produce content right, jacket was not really reaching out to us to get a read on us, and was also townreading players for very little without engaging them further just issuing a townread right

so it seems weird to me that you viewed this and thought, ah, that's towny now

and timing of it felt in line with potential mafia reasoning to me as i explained to umlaut

I feel like Jacket I felt like ended the rvs too early and got serious too quickly, but then just decided that I agreed with the bolded that it was probably just town trying to move the game forward. This is where the "forced progression" comes from. I am not suggesting rvsing indefinitely.

"...but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger..."

I would argue that it would make the argument weaker as I felt like Looker was closing down walls with other options in the game, and while I don't find this exactly a good way to play the game, I find it more to probably come from town.

However, this is all before we reach where we are now with 202 with Jacket changing their read on me, which gives out a whole new set of pros and cons like his coalition strategy not being as secure of a strategy as one thinks and this can be either town just simply reevaluating a read they had early in the game because they find Vanders townier or whatever, or this is mafia who wants to create opportunities to try to mis-elim me based on threadstate and the direction of most of the thread null/scumreading me minus Umlaut, who is in this odd space where I believe that they could be mafia and I have a feeling they could just be knowing that I am town and trying to get on my good side but I kinda get the feeling they might be town too? (If I don't expand on this remind me too)

[Cape90]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

I think you might be misunderstanding me:

Dorsey's case against Shiki was this:

VOTE: shiki who do you think is scum and y didn't u vote like everyone else

Shiki explains why she didn't meta vote and my reason for disliking Dorsey was his lack of reevaluation.

Additionally, this:

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

was a very weird post because Shiki wasn't asking other people to commit to anything.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

UNVOTE: Vanderscamp

I think you could be town tbh

[Cape90]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

i think being concerned about progressing the threadstate is a bit of an odd thought and obviously something the mafia don't actually care about. I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

[Cape90]

I kinda thought they just looked like mafia trying to look busy, but a little later, I am warming up to them, especially with their latest post in 65 and I kinda vibe a bit with the vanderscamp read

hmm

Alright so about your suspicion on me, let us start here, what are you not following here in terms of logic?

I will admit that maybe my read on 65 was a bit shallow, I don't think I really have seen mafia make a post about finding 1 more town for a winning POE. I feel like that would just close off options if the supposed winning POE is wrong. i guess in other words I tend to see mafia try to keep their options more open

it's like,

jacket says 'this the scummiest rvs!'

you disagree with this, but as you've clarified when questioned, this is because you think any reads based on rvs are questionable and that you thought jacket maybe was just trying to look busy, right

but if all reads based on rvs are questionable, and you didn't find any of the other posts scummier than the one pointed out just that you found it scummy for any of them to be pointed out, it's like ...

but then why would this be more likely mafia trying to look busy than town moving the game

? and what would have been a towny thing for anyone to be doing? continuing to rvs indefinitely?

but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger

as jacket was certainly doing things and saying 'i want to have conversations/produce content' but not really taking actions towards this goal but rather the building coalition goal

which was both not encouraging me/bugspray to have a conversation/produce content right, jacket was not really reaching out to us to get a read on us, and was also townreading players for very little without engaging them further just issuing a townread right

so it seems weird to me that you viewed this and thought, ah, that's towny now

and timing of it felt in line with potential mafia reasoning to me as i explained to umlaut

I feel like Jacket I felt like ended the rvs too early and got serious too quickly, but then just decided that I agreed with the bolded that it was probably just town trying to move the game forward. This is where the "forced progression" comes from. I am not suggesting rvsing indefinitely.

"...but sure your post also moving the game so it's like on that level i can see why maybe towny but not why scummy from jacket,

but then jacket is doing coalition thing, and saying, well i have no reason to move game as mafia

and! the awareness of this i would think would make your busy work hypothesis stronger..."

I would argue that it would make the argument weaker as I felt like Looker was closing down walls with other options in the game, and while I don't find this exactly a good way to play the game, I find it more to probably come from town.

However, this is all before we reach where we are now with 202 with Jacket changing their read on me, which gives out a whole new set of pros and cons like his coalition strategy not being as secure of a strategy as one thinks and this can be either town just simply reevaluating a read they had early in the game because they find Vanders townier or whatever, or this is mafia who wants to create opportunities to try to mis-elim me based on threadstate and the direction of most of the thread null/scumreading me minus Umlaut, who is in this odd space where I believe that they could be mafia and I have a feeling they could just be knowing that I am town and trying to get on my good side but I kinda get the feeling they might be town too? (If I don't expand on this remind me too)

On this topic, in regards to the whole Jacket coalition thing, just noticed 195 and it seems a bit unsure of itself if we are really going with the coalition thing

[Cape90]

In regards to Dorsey

if I take 187 seriously I have to conclude they are not currently voting their top scumread.

I agree with this, it feels odd they are still on shiki after having

that

read on em

[Cape90]

VOTE: bugspray

so that's all you got to say?

[Cape90]

Is this just to get him to talk

or are you going to eliminate him?

Yeah, I just didn't feel they quite produced enough content so mostly I just wanted to see more

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: bugspray

[Cape90]

VOTE: enchant hi

you vote them right when they come in and haven't said a thing?

[Cape90]

VOTE: enchant hi

you vote them right when they come in and haven't said a thing?

yes

i wanted to vote the slot as soon as you unvoted because it was no longer a y-1, but i felt dumb voting an empty slot

The problem with this line of thinking was Enchant was essentially an empty slot which makes arguments like this

i think 312 is showing a "here is a question that has an extremely obvious answer, where i am preparing to set up a scumread based on a thing that's surface-level scummy but that has a very simple explanation that i am conveniently going to ignore" mindset and i don't like it

Quite part of the comedy club. You got the whole crew laughing + no, the question wasn't a prep for a scumread, I was just wondering

[Cape90]

I'll move to compromise if necessary but think both current wagons are somewhat uninspired. I kind of like Enchant's entrance.

I don't see what's so towny about it

[Cape90]

enchant was not an empty slot? in either sense of the word - the slot had a person playing in it, and the previous owner had posted enough content for me to get a read into. so.

I like to let the boiler plate sit on people that sub into a scummy slot personally. So far, not impressed, considering just revoting, but I will give it some time. I am still feeling mixed on you for *reasons

im mostly just giving it time because I don't really have more time to think about it rn bye.

[Cape90]

VOTE: Datisi

I refuse to believe a player with 18460 posts and counting would actually believe their shallow case on me is really amazing and worth voting me over, I also refuse to believe the reason is genuine.

Like Datisi says 328 right? Like I criticized him for voting someone who hasn't gotten the chance to speak and they said this. So then were you just explaining your thought process from earlier? Because you said 318 which in itself is a weird post because through this post, I really don't know at all why you got off Enchant, and onto me for a post I made. To me, it just looks like you might be just spewing Jacket as town, totally fine by me honestly, most of everyone looks suspicious this game, like who isn't scummy like, there is shiki. I see an argument there could be made for Jacket and Umulant too.

Blah blah blah, anyway, so I guess Enchant was not an empty slot in 296 but you also said 313? Did you just admit you voted an empty slot? I mean, come on, it's essentially the same thing an empty slot, a person who hasn't spoken. But hold on, you said 314 didn't you? Which this raises many concerns of what you have been telling me Datisi.

Oh but cape, you are just harping on one thing that could just be NAI and probably a bad push.

Is it a bad push to be pushing someone who has been probably playing for more years then me? I like this push because I want to see how the experts

quake in their boots

respond (yes I am exaggerating for the funsies)

Hey hold, there is more

305 is a mafia question, mafia seem to love asking "am i scum?"
287 is a big shrug for me
280 so Datisi apparently has loads of meta on bugspray, that's cool, then they swap to me not knowing what my meta is like at all... okay then?
Speaking of the whole meta on bugspray thing, you notice that when you go back to the moment when Datisi suspected me for questioning him on revoting the bugspray slot. Now it is pretty clear that Datisi still holds this suspicion on bugs/enchant, however what I am wondering, hey Datisi, would the solve of the game then be just me and enchant, would it just be us both as mafia? Or do you think we are unpaired?

You know what is strange though, I go back and look at 228 where Datisi says out of the 2 wagons at that time going on that he preferred bugspray but he expressed that he didn't like the wagon on bugspray? Excuse me hello? What? Not like Datisi had no suspicion whatsoever on bugs as stated a bit in 220.
Datisi opts for going with Umlaut instead in 221 anyway and this isn't really brought up later on again by Datisi.

As far as meta reads that Datisi had on bugs goes, there was in 219 at the top

"bugspray's latest post is very underwhelming and i'd be lying if i said i townread it,

but if i recall correctly, scum!bugs is generally more... tryhardy? or at least active, i remember them posting constantly in the first blitz.

could be that they're busy or don't feel like playing or smt, which would be nai, but eh."

Now ain't that just something.

Lemme just pull up some stuff in 135.



Oh dear it looks like Datisi found a couple of bugs posts towny.

That's not exactly the interesting part, that actually comes in with the read on Jacket, where there is implied skepticism on Jacket in their post townleaning on me. And yet with Datisi's voting on me, there is little question of Datisi just going with Looker right onto me. (I say little because of 219).

So like Datisi is in this odd place in my mind where I just feel like he doesn't believe what he says, or just actively want to go against what he knows is true.

[Cape90]

it was partly a declaration that i genuinely scumread bugs, partly a reaction test to see if anyone's gonna agree with it.

I guess in fairness this post could explain some of the actions that I saw in regards to the bugs slot looking back

[Cape90]

UNVOTE: Datisi

augh the RT thing actually could make sense the more I think on it

[Cape90]

okay, time for me to quake in my boots.

I refuse to believe a player with 18460 posts and counting would actually believe their shallow case on me is really amazing and worth voting me over, I also refuse to believe the reason is genuine.

first strike. do i believe my shallow case on you was some ironclad 100% guaranteed-or-money-returned scumcase? not really, no, and i never said it was. but it does not have to be that strong in order to be "worth voting you over". i've voted people for much less.

Like Datisi says 328 right? Like I criticized him for voting someone who hasn't gotten the chance to speak and they said this. So then were you just explaining your thought process from earlier? Because you said 318 which in itself is a weird post because through this post, I really don't know at all why you got off Enchant, and onto me for a post I made. To me, it just looks like you might be just spewing Jacket as town, totally fine by me honestly, most of everyone looks suspicious this game, like who isn't scummy like, there is shiki. I see an argument there could be made for Jacket and Umulant too.

i genuinely have no clue what this is even attempting to say, but. no, in 328 i was not explaining my thought process from earlier, i was explaining why your "enchant was an empty slot!!" argument from 325 is nonsense.

as for 318. first, the accusation that "i can't see why you got onto me through this post" is... okay? yeah? because that's not the point of that post? i explained why i voted you in 323 and 324, why are you giving me shit for not explaining that in 318? as for "not seeing why i got off enchant", what do you think "nonchalant" and "not-giving-a-shit" means? those are characteristics that more often come from town than from scum, i saw those characteristics in enchat's intro. wow. amazing.

Blah blah blah, anyway, so I guess Enchant was not an empty slot in 296 but you also said 313? Did you just admit you voted an empty slot? I mean, come on, it's essentially the same thing an empty slot, a person who hasn't spoken. But hold on, you said 314 didn't you? Which this raises many concerns of what you have been telling me Datisi.

enchant was not an empty slot in 296, in both senses of the word. (1 = occupied slot, 2 = slot that has produced readable material.) 313 was saying that i was not willing to vote a slot that is unoccupied, because an unoccupied slot is unable to claim.

and "empty slot" and "person who hasn't spoken" is NOT the same thing when replacements are in question. i had a read on bugs. it did not matter that enchant hadn't spoken yet, i had a read on the slot due to the stuff that bugs had posted.

305 is a mafia question, mafia seem to love asking "am i scum?"

incorrect, gauging other people's reads on my slot is one of my favourite way of reading people.

287 is a big shrug for me

either say why the post makes me scum or don't include it in a scumcase.

280 so Datisi apparently has loads of meta on bugspray, that's cool, then they swap to me not knowing what my meta is like at all... okay then?

do you think that the one and only way i am able to make reads is through meta? am i suddenly not allowed to have non-meta reads because i had one meta read in this game?

Speaking of the whole meta on bugspray thing, you notice that when you go back to the moment when Datisi suspected me for questioning him on revoting the bugspray slot. Now it is pretty clear that Datisi still holds this suspicion on bugs/enchant, however what I am wondering, hey Datisi, would the solve of the game then be just me and enchant, would it just be us both as mafia? Or do you think we are unpaired?

i don't know and i don't care. i'm not solving partnerships on day one unless there is a very good reason to do so.

You know what is strange though, I go back and look at 228 where Datisi says out of the 2 wagons at that time going on that he preferred bugspray but he expressed that he didn't like the wagon on bugspray? Excuse me hello? What?

"preferred out of the three current wagons" =/= liking a wagon. just because it's better than the alternatives, doesn't mean it's actually any good. hello???

Not like Datisi had no suspicion whatsoever on bugs as stated a bit in 220.
Datisi opts for going with Umlaut instead in 221 anyway and this isn't really brought up later on again by Datisi.

yeah, because at the time, that singular post against bugspray wasn't enough to outweigh my other feelings on the slot. also, why should i have brought up the fact i voted umlaut again? how does the fact i didn't bring it up make me scum?

As far as meta reads that Datisi had on bugs goes, there was in 219 at the top

"bugspray's latest post is very underwhelming and i'd be lying if i said i townread it,

but if i recall correctly, scum!bugs is generally more... tryhardy? or at least active, i remember them posting constantly in the first blitz.

could be that they're busy or don't feel like playing or smt, which would be nai, but eh."

Now ain't that just something.

Lemme just pull up some stuff in 135.



Oh dear it looks like Datisi found a couple of bugs posts towny.

okay? do you have a reason to think those reasonings come from scum? do you have a reason to suspect my trajectory on bugs? no? you're just gonna throw vague shade and hope it sticks? okay.

That's not exactly the interesting part, that actually comes in with the read on Jacket, where there is implied skepticism on Jacket in their post townleaning on me. And yet with Datisi's voting on me, there is little question of Datisi just going with Looker right onto me. (I say little because of 219).

i have... no clue what this is trying to accuse me of. rephrase and i'll respond.

1. I guess the thing that gets me about your vote on me is it seemed like you had more dirt on the bugspray slot, more to go off of then myself.

2. Okay hold, if my case on Enchant being an empty slot was complete hogwash, then what does 313 mean exactly?
-About 318 I felt like it would have made more sense to explain your vote on me like after you voted me. And like, not have to get prodded to do so (322) that part just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to my chronological brain. Like you vote me and then just keep talking about Enchant.

3. okay, I think I see where your actions are coming from and your thought process. My concern lies in why you would be afraid of hammer dropping on the empty slot, does this sort of thing happen really that often?

4. I have seen more mafia tending to ask that question then town, you disagree with this belief?

5. Felt like a dumb question, 99% sure they explained it. Felt like an easy, no-depth question. Also, probably a town move anyway given the flip, but obviously that's on hindsight.

6. It seemed to be a lot less shallow then the case provided on me.

7. Meh, I don't like this line of thinking when there is likely 2 mafia since it is a 9 player game. There is your good reason to do so you're welcome.

8. Okay? I mean it really seemed like you had a VERY developed kinda meta read later on to the point of tunneling the slot. But you also said they said a couple of towny things earlier on which mind you, is not really brought up when we all get to the Enchant arc.

9. What were your feelings of the bugspray slot at the time?
-Just seemed like you conveniently forgot about Umulaut when the threadstate started not moving in that direction.

10. Contradicting your OWN meta on bugs is more weird then a scum motivation I guess. Your trajectory on bugs has been all over the place and as soon as I saw 333 where I guess there was a whole partly a reaction test thing, that only adds more confusion in the mix on the trajectory of the bugs slot, but in a way, it kinda makes sense from a town angle with 333 in mind.

11. in 341, I did mean to say jacket consistently and not looker at the bottom. But you know it was Jacket who originally got on me and after I said something, you didn't really think twice about Jacket's treatment of me which you previously questioned. And I was wondering why.

[Cape90]

3. okay, I think I see where your actions are coming from and your thought process. My concern lies in why you would be afraid of hammer dropping on the empty slot, does this sort of thing happen really that often?

Expanding a little on this point. I feel like I am the type of player who likes to be careful day 1 (especially since I have been wrong A LOT). And it just felt like you were being careful for the wrong reason, like you had a suspicion of there being a hammer when I feel like it would be silly to think that if everyone is paying attention like they should be

[Cape90]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

Spoiler: Bus?

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

I think Dorsey has the highest chance of being scum because I really didn't like their read that shiki was scum for not voting.
Having that read in the first place was somewhat fair, but the part I really didn't like was him maintaining the read when shiki gave a pretty strong justification for it, including stating that not voting is something she often does.
I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.
My townread on shiki is stronger than my scumread on Dorsey.

I still dislike Jacket's defensiveness and his reads, but I'm less sold on this being scum indicative now and more thinking it is just his playstyle to take things too seriously. The biggest part of me gaining this read was when he said "congratulations" when someone said they thought he might be a serious player or whatever it was.

I'm also happy to sheep Umlaut's read saying that Datisi wouldn't say they didn't want to kill Umlaut but then voting there anyway for a minor town lean.

Vander...I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me

I think it's Vanderscamp. VOTE: Vanderscamp Good luck.

edit-Ha

Spoiler: Buddying?

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

if i HAD to make some reads right now

townies are jacket, shiki, bugspray, dorsey, in no specific order

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

Bug...Doesn't really say much. I know you said people were calling them scum, but I didn't see much reaction.
Cape...I don't see a really telling connection with anyone. (They had unvoted Jacket but Micc just didn't catch it - had to get that off my chest)
Wheels/Datisi...Please don't make another cult. LGW struck me as a background character and I don't know what made them leave.
Looker...Minimal iso with vote shifts. I'm biased towards this behavior because I do the same thing unless I'm replacing in and there's already content.
Shiki...I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying.
Umlaut...Thought the E-1 was weird. Also leery of the pass given to Datisi for perceived contradiction or "madness", but I think that's just because I'm leery of Datisi.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

VOTE: dorsey

why

VOTE: dorsey

sure, we have less than two hours anyway, probably not getting anything up in time

I don't see scum!Datisi hammering down like this

How is 210

buddying

?

At least if you are actually gonna commit to saying that is buddying, call 212 buddying too

[Cape90]

cape, who do you think is scum?

I think it really could be any one of Looker/Umlaut/Enchant

Moreso going to look at Looker or Umlaut because 420 I think is a good argument that it probably is not Enchant

[Cape90]

for cape, when the wagons were 2 dorsey 2 cape 2 bugspray(enchant) did cape/dorsey behave as though they needed the wagon on enchant/new wagon?

Thought never crossed my mind by the way

[Cape90]

why is umlaut on that list and why am i *not* on that list?

Because you aren't scum?
I thought I made that stance clear when I unvoted you.
I was explaining thought process in 404, thought most of your points in 409 were fair. I didn't really wanna be redundant and basically say "fair" to just about everything

[Cape90]

which, if we think cape and i are particularly similar players, then this is likely slightly +mafia for cape,

I wouldn't say we play similarly and dunno exactly were you get that from. Like if you just got that from like 423 I would say that it's pretty flawed and doesn't seem like, all that uncommon so like ?

[Cape90]

Pretty sure it's just Looker, for lack of any other plausible options.

Maybe

Datisi but I've found his play pretty towny, particularly today: there is just no scum motivation for them as scum who didn't bus to come out with good arguments that scum was not busing. And as for Cape I don't believe he just sits there no-voting at end of day when his buddy is on the chopping block.

VOTE: Looker

I am ngl to you, I just wasn't there. So argument against me is flawed

[Cape90]

and the 404 post read to me like you were still sus of me, but maybe that's just me.

and about umlaut?

I know it's worded like that, and purposefully so to show my thought process

Umlaut kinda falls into POE, but might be okay because of the Dorsey vote they had they had going throughout day 1

[Cape90]

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2022-02-08 17:00:00).

Dorsey (2) -

Vanderscamp, Umlaut

Cape90 (2) -

Looker, Jacket

Enchant (1) -

Dorsey

Jacket (1) -

Enchant

Umlaut (1) -

Datisi

Not Voting (2) -

shiki, Cape90

whoever isn't voting, i would strongly recommend you vote, as we have less than 8 hours left, and no claims. out of the current top wagons, i'd vote dorsey but i am not thrilled about it. my preferences for votes is probably?? umlaut > looker = enchant > dorsey > vanders > jacket > cape > shiki

While I was there this was about the VC we had minus the Umlaut vote Datisi had IIRC.
Dorsey was still quite the possibility with this wagon formation

[Cape90]

I'm not super out to kill him but if I'm in a final three with him and Cape, who I think has actively sounded very towny and didn't vote Dorsey, I would vote for Enchant pretty quickly.

I don't think it's ever good to rush final 3

[Cape90]

the only notable potential negatives with regards to vanderscamp

which like, there just aren't actually any negatives for enchant? like actually none yeah?

only 'but mafia

could

make all of those posts if they really wanted to for whatever reason even though it probably works against their win condition'

which like, is always true

mafia

could

make any post

i

could

be mafia right now

et cetera

wow scumclaim

VOTE: Shiki


Also 13 hours.

This doesn't look like a scum claim to me. I would be surprised if it was shiki

[Cape90]

Nah, too awkward with hammers.

Like, asking "I fear it was not hammered" and not hammering it instantly (i needed to suggest) probably makes datisi more town.

This is not a case I endorse on Datisi being town lul

[Cape90]

I'ma hammer I don't have time GL

VOTE: Looker

[Cape90]

Well, I wasn't playing on point but you know. We take those. GG