Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[skitter30]

can you like make a case for mena being town skitter

- i don't think he's so out of tune with the viable coalitions as scum
- i don't think he's so picky about who gets in/out as scum
- he tries to buddy me more as scum / get on my good side / defer to my reads/pushes to try to win some points
- he tries to have more of an ~impact~ as scum, as town i don't think he cares (see: his last scumgame, where he faked a guilty on his partner. he's way more out of tune with what's going on rn)
- i think he'd try to keep up more and exert more influence as scum, here he's more laid back and less trying to control/direct things

in short i don't think how he's played this game is how he would have as scum

~

Final is me/ari/dats/relly/fire

although @mena: how did you end up with this coalition, wasn't your top-guess for scum earlier ari/fire?

[skitter30]

1038 is a hmm post to me because i felt like std was viable at the time and the fact that she was going "is std viable? no? i guess i can remove him..." is Concerning

plz elaborate how he was viable at that time, thank you
also nothing you posted prior to this was me strongly wanting ari in

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Me/mena/irrel/std

Ok so is this a viable core, and if yes, who should the fifth be?

And if ur not confident in dats either idk if i want to pit him in, but then it's hard for me to find a confident fifth

is there anything i can do to make you sorting me easier? i know the answer is probably "no", but still.

What's your ideal coalition rn?
Do u want ari in it?
Are you ok with me/mena/irrel/std?

This doesnt exactly answer your question but will give me a better sense of where you're at

(Its been a Week and I've also been playing this on like half-effort >.> i dont know everyone's reads or what's even viable ...)
(And ahhhhhhhh paranoia why am i making any of these decisions???? Are my reads wrong???? Am i putting in blatant scum???)

What's your ideal coalition rn?
Do u want ari in it?
Are you ok with me/mena/irrel/std?

me/you/mena/ari/irrel
yes
no

i mean i vaguely get what irrel was saying about std being townie but the points did not register in my brain as "valid" and they won't until i sit down and reread his iso with those things in mind

ngl i was hoping mena was gonna be more around because i wanted to talk to him about it since he's got a similar read than i do but

Ok if std being in it isnt viable i can probably compromise on that but that is not my ideal, i really would like std in it

And honestly to be perfectly frank if it failed i would probably flip you first
Probablh something like dats -> mena -> ari -> irrel
Maybe swap mena/ari idk

i'm noting how you're skipping over me asking both you and ari if you'd include std here and you guys indicating that you wouldn't ... ?
i wouldn't have trusted nk15/mala saying they wanted my coalition tbh
that's when i decided the votes weren't there

[skitter30]

like how did you miss that sequence between 1026 and 1038 exactly @dats?

[skitter30]

i had like 8 hours between that moment and when i was leaving for the weekend
including a full day of work in between

you indicated you weren't likely
ari indicated she wasn't likely
irrel was unlikely to vote for something excluding you and ari given his reads
mena was eeeeehhhhh if he'd be around to talk to before i had to leave
i don't think i would have supported (or gotten) a coalition with a core of mena/me/irrel/std given who was remaining to even vote for it
fire also strongly scumread std
std scumread mena

if you/ari were anti it, where were the votes meant to come from exactly
who else was i supposed to ask?

like sure if you want to say earlier in the day i should have done. i probably should have, but i hadn't, and that morning i was trying to see what was available with the votes remaining, and that wasn't.

i had also towncased std at least once, prior in the day iirc

i think you're significantly over-emphasizing my support of ari being in, and i again strongly object to you saying that i didn't try to get std in as you gloss over me literally asking 2 key players if they'd include him
(i'm also not sure why you're framing this as a dichotomy between ari/std, when it wasn't ...)

[skitter30]

i'm not saying that would be my one and only plan. i'm not even saying it's "likely" that succeeds. but it is A Plan that Might work, and i have no reason to immediately shoot that plan into the foot by pointing out that nk15 is not townie and in fact here is a scumgame where he loltunnelled his partner!!

like idk why you're assuming as if scum!me can have only one plan and that scum!me can work towards only one plan at a time. it isn't unviable to be trying to get townread as a backup, but also not immediately sinking nk15 when people are townreading him for garbage reasons

i'm in the coalition. nk is out of the coalition. if we are a team, you are ALWAYS flipping me before him. which means that by the time you start looking for nk, I AM FLIPPED SCUM. with that knowledge in mind, i make an incriminating post towards my partner... WHY? (unless your answer is "wifom" to which my answer would be "i don't use wifom as scum like that because most of the townies only ever use level-zero-logic" but y'know.)

you wrote the following, and framed it as how you would have behaved in a you/nk15 universe. i responded to that hypothetical, as i read the following as what you would try to do in the nk/dats s/s universe
and if that's not what you were saying you would have tried to do, fine: how would you have approached that universe

(2) this universe would be 100x easier to win if i don't shut down the nk15 townreads in the beginning but instead scumread enough other players to get him into the coalition, flip him, then carry myself; as opposed to getting myself into the coalition and banking on winning by flipping 3 out of skitt/irrel/mena/ari before myself

wrt the last paragraph above: i'm still not sure why you wouldn't, or you're describing it as an 'incriminating' post ...

[skitter30]

well NK15 wanted to kill me or dats

and mala wanted to kill me

so wouldn't it make sense for you to push me given it's cleanest trajectory and you have 2 votes that are leaning that way already?

i think the trajectory would have been cleaner on dats but fair enuf

[skitter30]

like if you said "why do you not want std in? have you considered he's town because xyz" then like yeah i would've conceded you pushed your thing it didn't work. but where is you trying to change anyone's mind on him?

i indicated repeatedly i wanted him for like 4+ irl days. i asked several people if they would vote for him.
i probalby could have done more prior, but that's what i was able to do that morning. saying that i didn't try (and again skipping the posts where i was actually gauging if it was possible or not and asking people if they would join me) is inaccurate as well

[skitter30]

again dats why are you even framing this as std vs ari - that wasn't really the choice i was weighing and dichtomy was never really reflected in the gamestate either

[skitter30]

1038 is a hmm post to me because i felt like std was viable at the time and the fact that she was going "is std viable? no? i guess i can remove him..." is Concerning

plz elaborate how he was viable at that time, thank you
also nothing you posted prior to this was me strongly wanting ari in

other people were townreading him. he was basically around the 5th-6th place the whole time. changing mine or ari's minds would've made him viable.

are you purposefully twisting my words? i'm not saying you "strongly wanted ari in", i'm saying you kept nudging how you'd be maybe sorta fine i guess with her being in the coalition and

not doing much to actually kick her out

.

ok i did this above:
you didn't want std
ari didn't want std in
irrel wasn't going to vote for anything that didn't include you/ari
fire was scumreading std
mala is scumreading you/ari/mena (and i was sus of her anyways)
i don't know offhand what mena was voting at the time but i wasn't banking on talking to him before he had to leave given his activity

where were the votes for my coalition coming from exactly? if you'd like to show me where i could have gotten my coalition from at that point, i'd have been very happy to hear. i was trying to assess what i could actually vote for that could happen, and putting ari in looked like it was the most likely option to have happened
it's not like i could have just exchanged ari for my top scumread (as see above), so i'm not even sure what your point is exactly for the bolded
like i'm not sure at that point what you think i ought to have done

i'm also not even sure what we're arguing about or if we're talking past each other

[skitter30]

*for my top townread

[skitter30]

HURT: all
HEAL: me, ari, dats, irrel, std

also another thing

its super weird to me that you wanted this coalition instead of the one that passed which switches out Mena for STD but you also have Mena as untouchable today after failure which is like a ??????

i also explained this already - ari/dats -> irrel -> mena -> std
i townread std more than the rest of you, but townread mena quite strongly

it, again, wasn't an option to swap ari/dats for std and have both std and mena (which, again, was the core of the coalition *i* wanted)
so given that it looked likely to have ari/dats/me as a core i was working with what i had left

like having std over mena isn't an indictment of mena

[skitter30]

i'm kinda confused what part of this is confusing given my reads throughout the entire day

[skitter30]

We are flipping Aristeia. If Ari is town, we are flipping skitter. If Ari is scum, we flip Datisi. Does anyone disagree?

literally the entire game
for the third time: why did you hammer the coalition
why are you now bringing up mena/mala as a aviable option and then pushing the above?

[skitter30]

on friday i would have taken that, yes
i don't think you offered that on friday. i don't remember exactly when and i think at that point i wasn't resigned to having included you at that point

[skitter30]

Me/mena/irrel/std

Ok so is this a viable core, and if yes, who should the fifth be?

this was me following up to that and asking if we actually had the numbers for that
and you said p soon thereafter that you wouldn't do it since dats wasn't in it

[skitter30]

I'm gonna be honest i'm not even sure what we're arguing abt any more

You, at the end of the day, were not interested in the coalition that i wanted. The reason may have been valid and made sense, but you werent voting for me/you/mena/irrel/std
I wouldnt have been trying to murder dats there, as he wasnt in it -> this wasnt what i wanted as it included you and dats and didn't include std, and i dont understand how your explanation even applies to the above coalition as dats wasnt in it.
You werent going to vote for me/dats/mena/std/irrel for the reasons above

I took this convo as you not being willing to vote for me/mena/irrel/std in either incarnation (and thus it wasnt viable) and that you wanted to sheep him over me

[skitter30]

I'm only thay certain mena is town
I am not nearly close enuf to being certain on irrel

[skitter30]

@dats

wrt not pushing std more: this is nai and you're not going to like it but the honest answer is that i was busy/stressed irl and lazy here and half-efforting. i probably should have done more, but didn't. that's on me but it is what it is. i don't think i was doing a ton more than i did last week tbh as either alignment. i kept kinda announcing my read there to gauge what the receptiveness was towards it and to see if it was viable. it didn't look like it was for a lot of the day, so i started seeing what else i could vote for. you were also p clear that you were anti-std for a large portion fo the day, and i didn't think it would be that likely that i'd be able to convince you, esp. after you didn't respond to 527, and i did also try to address the main issues i saw with fire's case on him in 589. i thought i had written more of a towncase, but i don't see one. he was one of my strongest townreads, i probably should have done more, but didn't think it was super viable and was lazy.

wrt nk15: by him getting in the coalition you're basically committing to bussing and i'm not convinced that's better for you, no. i think that the 'i wouldn't tear down scumreads on him as his partner!!' only holds in that universe, and i'm not convinced that's the approach you'd have taken. wrt 1199, i do see your point, so fair enuf

also: what is the point of this line of questioning? you think ari is town. you don't think the coalition failed through that. if you're arguing this is scummy of me: what is my scum motivation for this / what does scum-me get out of this given that you think ari is town anyways? the outcome per your worldview is not what led to the failed coalition anyways ?

i was fine with voting for you/std/irrel/mena/me

when i offer to be your fifth, the implication is that i would vote for it

ok fair enuf, but that's not how i understood it at the time, so i didn't take you up on it.

[skitter30]

We are flipping Aristeia. If Ari is town, we are flipping skitter. If Ari is scum, we flip Datisi. Does anyone disagree?

literally the entire game
for the third time: why did you hammer the coalition
why are you now bringing up mena/mala as a aviable option and then pushing the above?

I hammered the coalition because there was no way a coalition without ari/dats was passing, so I approved a coalition with ari/dats in it to increase the chances to yeet.
Because ari/dats is higher in my list and because, if ari is town, I can sheep her Day 2 instead.

what do u think apropriate hammer etiquette is?

[skitter30]

Fwiw i'm not actually pushing him at this point, i just feel like i need to address/answer everything

Are u trying to say u think its mena? I'm a little worried he's low hanging fruit tbh, and i think its a little reductive to say i'm townreading him for not trying hard, which loses some of the nuance in what i said
Why ia std semi-conftown to you?

But ok i'll consider it: when u have a chance after vla, why is it mena?

[skitter30]

skitt, what happened to your avatar

See: dead thread of ur large
(I.e. lost an avi bet to prism)

i'n questioning you because from my pov it seemed like you spent d1 just kinda being there, mentioning how you townread std and how you don't want ari in, but also didn't towncase std at all and kept nudging towards aristeia being kinda sorta okay to be in the coalition. then as soon as it failed, you started acting as if you were hard pushing for std to be in and were hard opposing ari and nobody was listening to you and you were forced into voting a coalition you didn't want and using that to push ari. when that's not how that looked like to me.

I mean fair enuf. I was v frustrated at daystart for it failing given that it wasnt what i wanted, but i could have done more to make what i wanted happen wrt std. I can understand how you see why my trajectory on ari was sus (although idk why you think i pick ari to be my first misflip, there's a whole host of easier options), but to my pov i didnt want her in, i felt like i only voted her to get something passed, and i was worried that's where it failed, and i still rn dont really know where scum is in it

I dont really townread u for this convo either tho, and i'm not really sure it makes sense for u as town to scumread me here, but maybe i am annoyed and its coloring this idk. I do think ari's approach to this was kinda townie tho

[skitter30]

I mean her trajectory is nonsensical but it could just as easily be town!her was stressed/distracted at work and didn't understand what I was telling her rather than scum!her decided to pull out some absurd trajectory to push me?

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this
I tried a few times but i guess i'll just say i dont think how much effort i had or how much i understood was ai

Other stuff (liie i dont think i make u the object of my misflip goals right at the gate as scum) are probably
But i dont think me being distracted is

[skitter30]

Ok, aristeia isn't going to happen, that much is clear.
I can't see anything else but the interaction so I have to just hope that I am wrong.
So...
fireisredsir looks like a person defending their partner. Combine this with ari's case that I just have to assume to come from town(because if ari is scum we already lost)...
VOTE: Skitter

Ok so we're now up to you proposing: ari, mena/mala, and me/fire this phase
After spending all of day1 insisting its ari/dats and then hammering a coalition with them in it

What happened to your dats scumread?
I think that this is v sus tbh

[skitter30]

I mean her trajectory is nonsensical but it could just as easily be town!her was stressed/distracted at work and didn't understand what I was telling her rather than scum!her decided to pull out some absurd trajectory to push me?

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this
I tried a few times but i guess i'll just say i dont think how much effort i had or how much i understood was ai

Other stuff (liie i dont think i make u the object of my misflip goals right at the gate as scum) are probably
But i dont think me being distracted is

Tbf you aren't actually inherently saying it is either
But i just felt like i needed to say that

[skitter30]

I can understand it, but not sure its a push coming from town

[skitter30]

Oh and i missed the latter question: i think that you should recognize that i dont start the day pushing ari today as scum
A diabolical plan to keep ari right on the edge of my reads so i can push her into the coalition so i can try to flip her first is just ... not how i would be approaching this as scum, for many reasons

[skitter30]

I mean i would make a note that i'm not trying to flip u rn @dats, and that i didnt vote you or anything. I'm suspicious of you but i havent actually done anything to really get you voted out, as I'm not at the point where i'm convined you're the scum rn; i'm still trying to sort this mess out. But i am a little Sus of this push on me, as i dont really understand how/why you think i'd have taken this tactic as scum
So if you can explain why you think i'd be starting off with ari when she's fairly widely townread ans unlikely to get voted out with significant effort esp given i dont really have any Good Reasons to push her or any sort of decent trajectory leading up to that ... i think that would help me understand *your* approach to the day


@ari: i think as scum, with this coalition, i probably would be going after mena (and i dont think i would have townread him as strongly earlier either), or would be actually hard-pushing dats rn like i said i would do yesterday vs this mess of whatever i'm doing rn. I think i would have just picked something and stuck with it

[skitter30]

You know that i'm kinda scared of you as scum >.> like i've fearkilled u at least once in recent memory
Also idk who you think the fourth/fifth would be? Maybe mena who was lowkey scumreading you ? Even tho he ended the day with you in his coalition? I dont remember what fire's read on you is but i think he's also townreading you, no? And i think std's townreading you too
Over the vociferous complaints of dats and irrel, who both have a lot of Voice here and could very well dissuade people
And a wagon with a base of nk15/mala would just look a little hmmmm? no?
And i dont like arguing with town-you when i'm scum anyways

I dont think this would be easy for me at all and i dont think i would take this approach

Pedit i mean in this coalition i'd have to go after *something* i wouldnt want to and i think that would be easier for me to meanueuver and win and get support for

Also it might be easier for mena to towntell truly but its easier for u to get townreads i think, which is a difference that matters in this convo

[skitter30]

Office day so i'll be back later

[skitter30]

Like with mena i think i win that argument easier, and can see reasonable paths fo 5 votes
I dont think either with you
I'd wait to flip you later when irrel/dats probably have to start flipping on you too

[skitter30]

@skitter and @datisi, you’ve both acknowledged at least one weird thing about menalque’s ISO recently iirc. Nobody is saying you have to lim him, just to give him more scrutiny than “until someone PROVES BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT I WILL NEVER VOTE THERE”

I mean sure if someone has a compelling reason to think he's scum i'll look at it, but i havent seen anything compelling yet

[skitter30]

btw a datisi/aristeia scumteam has written enough words that I concede to them. I’ll probably never vote for either on the basis that they’re the team, and my only response to paranoia of that team is to shove it down because I don’t feel like entertaining it. Catching them would involve too much work for something so unlikely.

Yes ari i think i cant count irrel as a vote for you

I'm not 100% sure why you're clearing them so hard tho, neither is that level of town for me

[skitter30]

I was ready day 1 to bet the game on me/skitter/datisi/aristeia/std being town and I still am

What will you do if Menalque flips town?

Ari how are u reading nk15 again?

[skitter30]

<3 std

Pedit and i dont think mena is the point of failure tho
And i'm not sure how that proves your point: if mena is scum with someone in the coalition, they'd be relatively satisifed with either the std/mena version, no?
And if he's scum with someone outside of the coalition, people outside of the coalition wouldnt be pushing him ... ?

[skitter30]

I mean ok so you're saying one of ur strongest pieces of evidence necessitates him being partnered with like exactly nk15/myself to work out?

And in the nk15 universe i honestly dont think its super likely that mena gets in in the first place (doesn't necessarily apply to the me universe i suppose).

Also per ari meta that isnt really how nk15 interacts with his partners either
Like if he's scum i think its with ari or dats

Pedit @irrel i sometimes have to pretend to work >.>

[skitter30]

Plz not before mena gets back at least

[skitter30]

I've said *multiple* times this dayphase that i think there might be two, and each time people complained against that theory, so this time i just simplified it

And wrt your other post: i already explained why i would not have started with ari, and why i would have tried elsewhere
You've also in the past acknowledged mu meta/approach r.e. goos trajectories so i'm not sure why you're thinking scum-me just threw that out of the window here
I also think my towncred tanks faster flipping town-ari over flipping town-mena given how multiple people are scumreading mena rn
Like i get that you're arguing is possible, but i dont, like, get how or why you think its likely that scum-me would be approaching the game this way

[skitter30]

@dats

[skitter30]

I mean I still dont know why i'd pick u as the distraction tho
I at least acknowledge that universe might be something i'd do

[skitter30]

I'm still kinda dubious mena is scum, i'm dubious that there isnt a cw, and the current wagon comp is Not Good

Nk15's vote should be alarming for everyone generally, and for irrel specifically, who thinks that's mena's partner

[skitter30]

I mean ok so you're saying one of ur strongest pieces of evidence necessitates him being partnered with like exactly nk15/myself to work out?

And in the nk15 universe i honestly dont think its super likely that mena gets in in the first place (doesn't necessarily apply to the me universe i suppose).

Also per ari meta that isnt really how nk15 interacts with his partners either
Like if he's scum i think its with ari or dats

Pedit @irrel i sometimes have to pretend to work >.>

And irrel when you get a chance if you could address this i would appreciate it

[skitter30]

Mala
Nk15
I'm having doubts on irrel

And @dats u wanna point that out to irrel maybe?

[skitter30]

Fair enuf. I still dont like it and i dont think he's flipping scum

[skitter30]

Hey busy day today, i'll catch up later tonight

[skitter30]

although @mena: how did you end up with this coalition, wasn't your top-guess for scum earlier ari/fire?

@mena did you respond to this btw?

(tfw dats has a quote from menalque in his sig, making it really hard to cntl+f for him >.>)

[skitter30]

i feel like some of it is nai he's been busy like have you asked yourself if scum!menalque just doesn't have enough thread presence here because he's been busy? i mean maybe you're right and he's been too laid back to be scum i dunno i don't really know what to do here

this is a fair question ... i played a whole bunch of games with him pre-hiatus
and a couple post-hiatus, including a scumgame

and like i guess tbf it could just be he has no time or energy at all
but like when i compare this to his last scumgame (around two months ago), i really do see notable and stark differences, including:
- real opinions that he keeps pushing / cares about
- somehow has less influence on the gamestate
- isn't seeking to infuence the gamestate
- isn't tryign to buddy people or find 'compromises' that more townread people want

which seems p different to me

[skitter30]

i very strongly don't think mena's case on std comes from scum:
- i think that this is a read he feels very strongly about
- i think that scum-him is very aware that std is not getting flipped today so this is a lost cause
- don't think scum-him puts nearly this much energy writing up a case on someone he knows isn't getting flipped today

[skitter30]

and on the very-offchance mena gets std flipped today, where is he going next even?

i guess we can make an argument that there's scum with him in the coalition and he doesn't want to flip there
but like i can't imagine he thinks that this will actually work

[skitter30]

oh, the reason I meant to say I needed to re-read you again is that I thought I remembered actual reasons beyond just "vibez" in your reads, even if you also had "bad vibes" as a justification at points

tbf i also think that fundementally std approaches the game in a more 'vibez' sort of way to begin with

[skitter30]

what's the point tho if he's imminently getting flipped
like i guess he can be creating a trail away from his partner

but like why do that instead of try to not get flipped

[skitter30]

i gotta take my tue/wed v/la this week because uni is hell and i need to sleep - will try to properly read and digest the mena/std thing tomorrow during my commute

sleep well dats! hope uni gets better :)

pedit ok maybe this is like another prism situation and he's doing all this to get me to townread him and i'm veryu susceptible to that
but like beyond that motivation this seems like an *incredibly* questionable path for scum-him to take here when he's in quite immediate danger of getting flipped

[skitter30]

i mean i guess
but i also don't know if he just rolls over and accepts being flipped, and i'm not even sure that's what he's doing now

and like he has to be scum with like me/you/dats/irrel to think he has a chance of winning despite this
which in my mind is another good reason to flip in that group ^ and not mena

pedit is the you in that for me or mena

[skitter30]

to be fair he has a history of doing things like 'fake-guiltying his partner'
but like said partner was catboi and catboi has a much better chance of carrying than like nk15 here

[skitter30]

also in that game he just announced the fake-guilty and dipped for literally a week before getting replaced. he didn't talk about it, try to explain his thought process, or really do anything, just radio silence immediately thereafter
he's spent like the entire day today defending his position in numerous iterations and from various angles

could just be an irl thing of having more time today than he did then
but i also think he cares more about the outcome and getting his way now then he did then

[skitter30]

also i think std's response to all of this is p townie

i think nk15 is literally just throwing stuff at the wall and trying to see what sticks

[skitter30]

i'm leaning towards irrel or dats rn

[skitter30]

ii. 1340 reminded me I would love skitter to explain why std was her towniest read day 1

good vibes, thought processes that track and i understand, making good observations at the right time, approaching things from a generally townie mindset
don't see any scum motivation to his posts
(for those keeping track at home: v similar to my fire read from last time)
probably don't have energy to go through his posts and write a formal case rn using particular posts as examples, i'm sorry

It sure did seem like you were upset at daystart that mena got in instead of std. Can you explain what about that made you feel annoyed, since you're confident mena isn't the reason the coalition failed? having std in the coalition instead would have had the same result if you're right.

no, i was frustrated that the coalition that passed ultimately failed, i wasn't inherently annoyed that mena got in intead of std
like i've said numerous times, i don't think std/mena was the point of failure. that slot (i.e. std vs mena) i didn't care as much abt

so i was annoyed that we ended up with ari/dats in the coaltion and that i comprised on something i didn't think was right and that it ended pu failing

v. skitter what is your read on me

a big ball of 'i don't know!!!' with 'why was i townreading you earlier' with 'maybe you can be scum'

I too think it’s unlikely mena gets in the coalition if he’s scum with nk15 but like… his and nk15’s votes sure did make it happen. If he’s scum I think we were gonna win until datisi/ari/fire decided they couldn’t get there on std.

i mean fair that nk15 was the final vote but like i don't think that nk15/mena is super likely tbh

[skitter30]

ugh that requires me to have energy tho >.>
yeah i probably should but i also don't know which of them it is, like whoever's scum here is playing very well and looks p townie
i just really don't think it's mena

i'm p sure i know who it isn't, i don't know who it is tho

why is dats townier tho? last i understood you were very waffle-y on him?
and why irrel

[skitter30]

maybe its just mena/nk15 and this game isnt that hard

yeah maybe i'm just being pocketed and way overthinking things
which is very possible

but like as i undrestand the game and mena i don't think it's this

[skitter30]

Aristeia I forgot to say: you're scum for using the light theme of MS. Dark theme only for us townies

i use sepia what does that make me

awful
tigers is even worse

black <- light <- sepia <- <- <- tigers

[skitter30]

I feel like I promised it.

menalque case ig

Just like... reread EOD1. menalque loses all sense of reads when he has a chance into the coalition. NK15 loses all sense of reads when he has a chance to hammer a coalition with mena. Three of us tried really hard to get a coalition w/o menalque and it failed, but probably would have succeeded if scum had wanted it. menalque and nk15 are just haphazardly trying to find anyone limmable today. It's a wrap (I hope and pray)

this isn't a mena scumcase, this is you announcing that you think the team is exactly mena/nk15 which i'm just ... dubious of
like hwy is mena scum independant of nk15?

[skitter30]

I did not but I’m about to go to sleep

Essentially I revisited fire and once I was happy with fire town I thought ari was much more likely to be as well

ok did any of that thought process end up in thread?

[skitter30]

if the gamestate is skitt/dats r t-t then like;

I don't like mena basically being awol for so long this phase[yes he said he was vla weekend but like its monday night in spain atp]

i find scum often have trouble interjecting into t v t game states because they dont want to fuck up the conflict or give themselves away - so if dats/skitter is t-t i can see mena being uncomfortable wading into it.

whereas irrelephant is just full on going in with the t-t -> mena push?

i mean maybe he is just exceptionally gifted scum who sees the t/t conflict being resolved eventually and needs to get a jump on mena but that would be some foresight.

i guess it could just be that he thinks flipping mena and preserving the schism between dats/skitter is worth it for f7 but theres no gurantee the embers get rekindled or that skitter/dats dont unite vs him for getting their mutual townread mena yeeted d1

i mean i would argue that irrel also didn't much wrt the t/t push in this universe and just didn't interact with it to push mena
i'm nto sure i see the difference between the two of them

[skitter30]

I like how present Dats is and his willingness to engage with people[it feels very different from how he played Spring Fling as mafia] and he just feels so mindmeldy with me at times like when he recalled Mena saying we do not guillotine inside the coalition etc from that game years ago.

and like maybe I'm just pocketed but it's hard for me to see scum!him? [Like maybe you can say that your coalition of 4 + me would've won and he saw that coming and he decided to preempt you by convincing me to back his coalition instead but like it's not exactly something town him wouldn't do?]

like dats i read this and just do not Gel with this at all
like i wish i can say somethinig better here than that but this doesn't really resonate with me

like for irrelephant i just think it's much cleaner and easier line for him to play into the dats/skitter conflict and maybe chain your elims rather than being like "no we r going to kill mena" who you both townread.

It's a gamble yea but like most of the time scum don't burn towncred if they don't need to and if the elim is falling inside dats/skitter he doesn't really need to?

for irrel tho:
- i don't think he could with his trajectory from yesterday? wasn't he strongly townreading both of us? being able to chain it seems very unlikely to me
- it's a lot cleaner to go onto the person he's already scumreading and who looks like a viable wagon, i don't think he burns a lot of towncred by going after mena
- i don't think me/dats were inevitable

i don't think this is a good reason to townread him at all

[skitter30]

like i don't even know why i townread irrel to begin with at this point tbh
i don't think his play this phase has been very townie at all either
admittedly not super scummy
but i don't see something that i should be massively townreading

[skitter30]

skitter I dunno if I'm being unfair but like shouldn't you be trying to convince Mena that STD is town since he's one of your top townreads and trying to get them to not murder each other today?

cuz like time is running out and rereading your iso since mena dropped his case on STD it doesn't feel like you're really trying to get him on the same page as you with regards to STD and you're not really pushing an alternative here?

I mean i guess i was a little more concerned with my read on mena since that looks to be more imminently going to a flip

I also dont have a great alternative, as i said last night. I'm just p convinced that this is wrong. What did u think abt my points r.e. irrel

[skitter30]

skitter stop reading mena based on his meta for sec

Are any of these things towny to you:
- having the scummiest player in the pl lolhammer you into the failed coalition
- voting yourself into a failed coalition that goes against your previously stated reads
- posting less than anyone else in the coalition by a long shot (in coalition setups especially, postcount has p much always been a useful metric, even if it's not always bottom-2-equals-scum. Because scum isn't fun to play in this setup)
- Having very few townreads all game long in a game about townreads
- Hopping into day 2 tunneling the third-scummiest player outside the coalition

I have more points but tbh I thought his entrance to this game day was so laughably scummy I didn't need to write it all out. I will today, not least because I'm finding your refusal to do mena pretty partner-y (my case does not rely on NK15 as partner like you keep saying, btw, it's just one point among many that they make quite a bit of sense as a team)

I dont know how to divorce the meta tho >.>
Thats part od my problem

I'll admit that the first two (particularly the top one) have some merit
But i'm not sure the third point is ai at all given how busy he is irl
He had a bunch of townreads this game
And for the fifth point - it's ????? And not especially town-motivated, but i'm still having a hard time seeing him doing it as scum

Also wrt your point abt nk15 being partnered with him: a couple of times now, when i've asked you why you scumread him, it basically boiled down to being partnered with nk15 1431 + surrounding convo, the main point of 1546, titled 'menalque case i guess' is that he makes senss as scum *when partnered with nk15*. Your point that scum pushed him in the coalition, which seems to be a large part od your scumread on him, is that nk15 voted him in. You're not casting any doubt on the earlier voters od that coaliton. Even now your first point in the list above is only valid if he's partnered with nk15.

Like i dont thinj that its unreasonable at all for me to be understanding your mena case really as a: i believe the scumteam is exactly mena/nk15 and here's why case

[skitter30]

Spoiler: skitter how do you feel about this progression

I am not certain but I'm heading in the direction where I think that this may be the best play

need to do due diligence on other slots too, but I think that StD redding essentially solves the game?

I am not certain but I'm heading in the direction where I think that this may be the best play

need to do due diligence on other slots too, but I think that StD redding essentially solves the game?

If STD is scum, then me/mala/fire are all confirmed town.
From your perspective, that means one scum in Skitter30/Datisi/Aristeia/irrelephant.
Who is it?

Fucked if I know

There’s a reason I want to do StD first

skitter why is it towny for mena to think std (your strongest townread from d1) is scum over both mala and nk15

I dont know but it follows his trajectory from day1 and it seems nonsensical to me for him to do this as scum

[skitter30]

Like you were saying earlier we need to weigh actions on the spectrum of 'does it make more sense for town or scum to do this'

You've successfully shown that this is bizarre as town, but i'm saying that its equally bizarre as scum (and you havent explained why this is inherently *scummy* of him, just not townie) so its hard for me to view this as damning

[skitter30]

I guess the difference for me was that Irrel was posting and saying hey I think skitt/ari/dats are all town; let's lim mena, whereas Mena wasn't atp in the game.

like if he's mafia doesn't that just cause him to get limmed the next day after mena flips town?

I mean both were basically on weekend vla and i dont think that irrel's incidental posting during the me/dats thing on sunday really is significant in the way you're describing

And i mean yeah idk what the next steps are for scum-irrel but it matches his current trajectory + the votes are there (vs trying to flip rn to me/dats/you when he's strongly townreading both) with mena gone he at least has the excuse of going tomorrow: whoops i was wrong i need to reevaluate the remainder !!!! Which is not something he can do as easily today imo

[skitter30]

Like @ari can you point to irrel posts from sunday that you think embody the behavior from irrel that you're describing?

[skitter30]

skitter why don't you want to vote scum

I mean if this is you asking me to vote mena:
- i made it significantly clear that i townread him
- this is very manipulative and is casting me in the 'wrong' for not voting someone that we dont know is scum rn

[skitter30]

VOTE: irrel

[skitter30]

and you havent explained why this is inherently *scummy* of him, just not townie

bleh I think menalque's entrance does feel towny actually but his actual *actions* (to try to lim outside the coalition) are pretty scummy with obvious scum motivation (e.g. the towny townies in the coalition are too towny to win against in a 1v1, both scum might be in the coalition, etc)

If the other scum is in the coalition, limming outside of it has obvious scum benefit
If the other scum is outside the coalition, limming std is the only real direction mena can go that has any town momentum (see: the PL's inability to townread std day 1)
Either way, playing bizarre has scum benefit by being WIFOM-y. Playing bizarre isn't something townies do unless they're, like, hiding a PR

I do think NK15 is his partner, I'm at like 50% confidence that's the scumteam. 50% confidence the scumteam is anything else. But mena regardless of if he's scum with you (didn't want him in the coalition because it makes today harder), datisi (got his way EOD1 to get him in), or malakittens (mena got lucky and nk15 is just an anti-town townie), it doesn't change the fact that mena is very much the scummiest in the coalition, his actions make no sense for town to be doing, he's playing bizarrely only because I and StD have given him no room to maneuver, and he's not even trying to sort within the coalition. So if nk15/mena isn't the team it's still him. Like FINE I'll MAKE THE FULL CASE in a few hours it just feels so blatantly obvious that the fact that you have him anywhere higher than [mm not sure] is so. weird to me

Ok again one of the Big points that you're pointing to as being damning is nk15 voting him into the coalition which is only damning if he's partners with nk15
Maybe i'm just way overthinking this and am stubborn but you're kinda simultaneously trying to play up that reason for mena being scum and then trying to talk down its significance when i point out your a large part of the scumread is based on a precise teamread with no flips yet

Also again think he's the scummiest in the coalitioj, but i can understand why people think hes the keast towniest: but that doesnt make him scum. Misflips literally happen because people think townies arent being townie. It isnt inherently a scum indicator. Nor is his actions not making sense coming from town

And if nk15 isnt the partner, your point abt: it looks like scum pushed to get mena into the coalition
Goes away

[skitter30]

and you havent explained why this is inherently *scummy* of him, just not townie

bleh I think menalque's entrance does feel towny actually but his actual *actions* (to try to lim outside the coalition) are pretty scummy with obvious scum motivation (e.g. the towny townies in the coalition are too towny to win against in a 1v1, both scum might be in the coalition, etc)

If the other scum is in the coalition, limming outside of it has obvious scum benefit
If the other scum is outside the coalition, limming std is the only real direction mena can go that has any town momentum (see: the PL's inability to townread std day 1)
Either way, playing bizarre has scum benefit by being WIFOM-y. Playing bizarre isn't something townies do unless they're, like, hiding a PR

Ok but he knows as scum that it'll be *immensely* scummy for him if he flips town outside of the coalition
If he's scum eith nk15 like you're positing: you think that scumteam wins elo with mena pushing town-std today? Like what's the gameplan for winning the game here? Like maybe he benefits in the short term tofay because of that, but i'm sure he knoes this wont lead him to winning the game overall: he actually said it himself

So like ... why is he tanking his chances kf winning in nk15/mena ?

[skitter30]

VOTE: irrel

:roll:
how about we flip mena and then you can flip me if it's green. deal?

No, and this is also manipulative

[skitter30]

skitter why don't you want to vote scum

I mean if this is you asking me to vote mena:
- i made it significantly clear that i townread him
- this is very manipulative and is casting me in the 'wrong' for not voting someone that we dont know is scum rn

I made it significantly clear that I scumread him and you should be too
It only casts you in a bad light if he flips red?? There's 0 worlds where I pivot to limming you today

I dont think i should be scumreading him
The tone of that post was manipulative: trying to get me to vote him with you while i'm implying you're right and i'm wrong, while also vaguely threatening in the sense that i'll look bad if i dont but only *in the universe that you're right and i'm wrong* nd we dont know that we're living in that universe now

[skitter30]

@ari thanks:
I dont rhink those are *substantial* posts given what was going on at the time - they were kinda popping in at the sides

And again given mena and irrel's respective townreads/trajectories going into this part of the day, i dont think the difference you're making holds merit

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89172
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87782
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=88043
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87040
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=86336

I think (?) that these are the more recent ones but i believe there's one or two recent ones i might be missing

Some of these are more emblematic of my scumgame than others for various reasons, but i just went chronologically backwards pulling the ones i saw first

I can talk more abt them + answer your most recent posts a little later, i have to do some work now

[skitter30]

@irrel i recognize that it wasnt you trying to pivot to me today
But you were trying to get me to do something i didn't want to (i.e. manipulate me to do something), backed with a lowkey threat that i was in the wrong for not voting mena (with the implication that i would look bad if he flipped green and i wasnt voting him)

[skitter30]

[quote="In post 1631,

And again given mena and irrel's respective townreads/trajectories going into this part of the day, i dont think the difference you're making holds merit

why didn't I re-evaluate one of my top scumreads when he made it into the failed coalition? The answer is in the question.
why didn't menalque re-evaluate one of his top scumreads when he didn't make it into the failed coalition? :nerd:

That wasnt really my point. Ari is saying you're townier than mena by comparison in that you got involved in the me/dats thing and mena didnt; she think scum would avoid it

I'm saying that with your respective reads, you wouldnt have flipped on either of me/dats just then

[skitter30]

So like ... why is he tanking his chances kf winning in nk15/mena ?

what a bizarre question. He gets limmed today or does something outside the box so that he doesn't get limmed today. the second almost always better, elo plans or not
mena is also repeatedly asking that: "how does this line up with me having a plan for elo?"
I don't know, how am I supposed to know the plans for elo? I'm sure most mafia chats don't include planning to get tunneled by Irrelephant, but here we are and something has to happen next

I dont think he has a path to victory in the nk15/him universe flipping std today

[skitter30]

Mena i feel p strongly that std is town and i dont think i'll be voting him today

[skitter30]

<3 irrel

[skitter30]

skitter doesn't use tigers!?!??!?!1?!11?!?!?

I know!!!!!!
(Will interact with real things after work!)

[skitter30]

Fwiw i am getting kinda ???? on ari again

[skitter30]

Mena i feel p strongly that std is town and i dont think i'll be voting him today

can you tell me why

I'm going to try to engage (*shudders*) with the monstrosity of a wall of text he posted yesterday, but I wasn't seeing it based on the final paragraphs that I did read

basically: i very strongly believe he's approaching this game from a town mindset and trying to solve. i can track his trajectories, and they make sense to me. he keeps chiming in with good, timely observations

overall i just get Good Vibes from him

referring back to your case on him:
- i think he does have real reads. i think they might be articulated in a more vibe-y wishy-wash-y sort of way, but i think that's just who he is as a player and how he approaches the game and forming reads. i think they largely track throughout the game, and make sense
- i think he's put a lot of effort into this game that i'm not sure he does as scum, including a substantial effort to articulate his reads beyond the vibes he's had

i think you're kinda scumreading his playstyle + may be lowkey tunneled
like a lot of what you're scumeading him for basically boils down to you not liking how he's articulating (or not) his reads - is this actually scum-indicative tho?

[skitter30]

*pat pat*

it's ok skitt, if we're annoying enough, someone is gonna call us tvt eventually

Ok dropping by to say it would be a lie to say this post from skitter/datisi's scum chat from another game didn't make me paranoid but I think the whole pl is basically deciding between me/mena right now so in this world we've maybe already lost anyway? I will maybe legit cry if it's datisi/skitter

being scum with dats is fun!

[skitter30]

I did not but I’m about to go to sleep

Essentially I revisited fire and once I was happy with fire town I thought ari was much more likely to be as well

ok did any of that thought process end up in thread?

uh

no

Like you were saying earlier we need to weigh actions on the spectrum of 'does it make more sense for town or scum to do this'

You've successfully shown that this is bizarre as town, but i'm saying that its equally bizarre as scum (and you havent explained why this is inherently *scummy* of him, just not townie) so its hard for me to view this as damning

I want to townlock skitter for this

but I'm worried that she would defend me as either alignment here because as town I believe that she's able to read me this well

yet as scum she benefits a lot from being right tomorrow and would be able to get a Relly misflip almost for sure, and have good odds of winning in ari/dats

although now I say that maybe not given how hard ari/dats have been on each other being town? so maybe I can townlock skitt if defending me makes her life harder or she just doesn't need to do it, and it doesn't make the game overall that much easier (as in, she would still prob die in 5p and be reliant on her partner to win)

first bit: ok so ... can you elaborate on any of that reasoning? it is a little sketchy that you were calling them the scumteam earlier and then voted for a coalition with them (and you!) that failed with no reasoning in between
second bit: dats is townlocking ari, i'm not sure it's going the other way around as well

[skitter30]

um your reasons are not v good.

1- I'd always try to pocket you as scum. Pocketing you is just something that I would enjoy doing and it doesn't have to have an obvious benefit.
2. I do make that effort as scum - esp to shut down a push coming from a townleader very early in the day and I don't need to push skitter - de-escalating and pretending to sort her is much better to do strategically.
3. I mean it could just be some excuse I made up to force my way into a coalition and blame failure on skitter?
4. I don't really need to push anyone on d2 if townies are fighting among each other and I'm not really being threatened.

here is the only reason you need:

I literally never rand scum <3

fwiw i also think dats' reasons for townreading u are somewhat poor
i will also point out that your current play today looks p similar to what you're outlining in 4

[skitter30]

im still not caught up but what frustrates me is the obvious mischaracterizations and sliminess and people are just ignoring that.

mena has clearly decided i'm scum but has no nuance to it no re-evaluation no thought process behind it. it's not like a townie finding a scumread at all, it's like scum picking someone because they have to. and people are just ignoring that.

mena has lied about what i've said to make me look worse and people are ignoring that. 1522

mena posted a monstrous wall and then acts like my monstrous wall in response is disgusting. subtle manipulation. 1669

mena's being performative again by voting for me showing off that they can't be scum because scum would be crazy to try to flip STD but i don't think he was trying to flip me i think he was showing off that he wants to in order to look townie

i think u both have v differnt playstyles and are scumreading the other for reasons that seem good to you but don't apply to the other and are therefor tunneled
i think this is tvt

[skitter30]

incidentally, i lowkey think that is mena reds, std might actually be the buddy, but i'll think about it if/when mena reds

ya fwiw this wouldn't surprise me in that universe
(this is not to say i think this universe is likely, before people jump on me)

[skitter30]

I'm writing his scumcase in a word doc but let's imagine we're scum!mena for a minute, and look at our options when we enter the thread ~48 hours(? Can't remember exactly) after D2 starts.

> try to lim datisi? Hm well that's one of like 2.5 players in your corner and seems like a very hard 1v1
> try to lim skitter? Hm well that's one of like 2.5 players in your corner and seems like a very hard 1v1
> try to lim aristeia? Hm well that's one of like 2.5 players in your corner and seems like a very hard 1v1
> try to lim irrelephant? And look like one of the worst OMGUS's in a long time?

Hm. Realistically the lim will probably be inside the coalition, but if I can get the heat off me for a minute maybe one of them will look bad. Not to mention, if I can take someone (anyone) down before I go down, that's 1/3 of the way to a win. So let me think if there's anyone else limmable:

> try to lim nk15? Will be way to obviously scummy/might be partner
> try to lim malakittens? Will be way to obviously scummy/might be partner
> try to lim fireisredsir? Doesn't everyone think fire is town? Doubt this gets any traction and gains me an enemy where I currently don't have an enemy
> try to lim std? Enough people scumread him that he didn't make it into the coalition, maybe I could get votes there. At the very least it fits with what I've posted previously in a way that is town. PLUS he's coming for me so I kinda need to discredit him so people don't listen to him. Keeps an enemy where I have an enemy, nothing lost there. Yeah this is the best of 8 sucky options

ok i can understand this thought process, but:
- he can just be waffle-y and not pick anyone to push like me/ari/dats are kinda doing
- his chances of flipping std are exceedingly unlikely

[skitter30]

---> I think I’m the only one who has suggested this, but I find it extremely unlikely that fire or nk15 are the only scum who voted for it and skitter is the singular scum (and, from anyone else’s POV, that I’m the singular scum) in the coalition. It’s just like a mislim in any other setup, it furthered scum’s wincon so scum almost certainly voted for it, though maybe not both.

---> For this reason, I think scum!skitter’s partner must be fireisredsir or notknown15.

---> This also suggests it’s pretty likely that menalque, datisi, or aristeia is scum

can you say this again? i don't understand what point you're making here

---> This might sound like the last point, but it’s distinct. There were two viable coalitions at EOD1. Skitter, std, and I wanted std in. aristeia, datisi, fire, nk15 and menalque wanted menalque in. malakittens didn’t vote for either. This matters because I believe std to be town, and he was left out. In a world where std and menalque are both town, I think the std coalition would have hammered. In that world:
>>>>>> scum!datisi wouldn’t have objected to std so strongly because std was easier for him to mislim than menalque
>>>>>> scum!aristeia would have continued being accommodating to me/skitter and let it be std to blame us when it failed
>>>>>> scum!skitter is unlikely to get so lucky that a counterwagon appears and goes through without her vote

---> But if menalque is scum, the shift in momentum is obvious: to get menalque into the coalition.

this is actually a decent point

--->In the two games I’ve played of coalition, a way that scum became obvious in those games was a slight undertone of desperation when it seemed likely that town was on its way to forming a coalition without them. The only player I felt that from in this game was fireisredsir, which was a reason I thought he was scum for awhile. But I don’t think fireisredsir would feel desperate on behalf if partnered with any of players in the coalition, since it was consensus from pretty early on that 5 of me/std/aristeia/datisi/skitter/menalque would probably make the coalition. So scum never felt desperate. Well gee how is that helpful since like I just said the reads were mostly consensus all game. Well I personally think it’s a good reason to townread aristeia, who like me offered to stay out of the coalition with fire (I meant it so maybe I’m projecting but I think she meant it too). The more I think about this point… the less impactful it feels. Do with it what you will.

right - i didn't read anybody this way except for like fire ... to me this implies that scum are in the people who were exceedingly likely to get in, like: ari, dats, yourself (i.e. vs the people unlikely to get in)
std was unlikely to get in for a while, and so was mena, so i think it's more damning for those 3 people

i think that your point r.e. lack of townreads have some merit but i don't know if it's ai given how ~out of it ~ he's been for alot of the game
the other points don't resonate with me

[skitter30]

We can lim me today so long as the following order is relly -> ari no exceptions

dont' think scum-mena offers that

[skitter30]

why am i townreading mena for the way he's acting right now

even when i think it's more likely objectively that irrel gets flipped rather than mena

i feel like on some logic level, that should make me see mena's "flip me lol" as scummy but i just don't think it does

i think it's objectively more likely that irrel gets flipped but from a *vibes* level it kinda feels more likely that mena will to me
i literally do not know how to articulate this feeling better

[skitter30]

yes me getting exasperated and getting worried these two are t-t is definitely how i would play it as scum

pls tell me more skitter

you've been dinging me for a lot of the day for not having a solid scumread
you don't either and seem kinda content to just watch this play out

[skitter30]

okay like here's the thing

if someone wants me to get off of menalque they have to point out why as town he would mischaracterize my sr of him specifically to make me look bad

like i'm beyond my sr at this point and locked onto him for that alone

see what i wrote above

[skitter30]

Like the push on me is so so opportunistic. Meanwhile I've burned all my towncred making this case and it still might not go through?

i mean yes but is that scummy tho

[skitter30]

i will also point out that your current play today looks p similar to what you're outlining in 4

Dats: Ari is town because she's not really pushing anyone

Ari: Well I could not push anyone as scum too!

Skitter: Ari is definitely not pushing anyone.

Like um ok so?

i'm implying that it hink it's scummy for you

[skitter30]

to sit back, not have any solid scumreads that you're pushing, and just kinda watching everything going on from the sides and lettin git play it out

[skitter30]

i mean fair but i also don't know who you think is scum, or who you want to push (even beyond irrel/mena) and i see scum mtoivation in just sitting back and continuing to pocket dats while just letting this play out without getting ur hands dirty, esp. in the tvt universe ...

[skitter30]

great ... in the tvt universe i would be immensely suspicious of you
also why are you sure that it's going to resolve itself (are you confident that the other is getting flipped tomorrow if one greens today?)
do u have a preference?

[skitter30]

also why dats/mala?

[skitter30]

also why are you sure that it's going to resolve itself (are you confident that the other is getting flipped tomorrow if one greens today?)

[skitter30]

i can buy mala scum tbh

[skitter30]

thanks for explaining ur pov
i can understand that perspective, esp. after lake melancholy

ig just from sitting on the outside i can see a fair amt of scum motivation for how you're playing rn
i'm not necessarily calling you scum for it but it does make me go hmmmmmmmmm esp if we're considering irrel/mena tvt universes (which ftr i don't consider super likely)

i'm also a little weirded out that you're *not* townreading dats but he's townreading you
also why are you going irrel over mena?

[skitter30]

sorry: that you're not townreading dats as strongly as i would have expected you to be here

[skitter30]

hello roden!

~
ari how likely do u think we're in a irrel/mena tvt universe?

[skitter30]

right - i didn't read anybody this way except for like fire ... to me this implies that scum are in the people who were exceedingly likely to get in, like: ari, dats, yourself (i.e. vs the people unlikely to get in)
std was unlikely to get in for a while, and so was mena, so i think it's more damning for those 3 people

@irrel for tomorrow: i'm particularly interested in you responding to the above

Also i suppose ari and dats while we're at it

[skitter30]

Hello

I skimmed the past couple pages and mod posts, can I get a basic summary of anything important/notable that happened so far?

coalition failed - we are eliminating inside this group of 5:

skitter
ari
datisi
menal
irrelephant

you should let us know who you want to vote off.

Just to add:
Mena wants to kill std (who is not in the coalition!)
Irrwl wants fo kill mena
Mena also now probably wants to kill irrel

Flip today as of rn is looking to be between mena/irrel

[skitter30]

mmm, what's the actual idea? because i think you're asking two different questions here

fire is a player that at one point became seemingly "desparate", yes, but i think the same can be applied to mala and her sudden burst in posting at one point that i thought was very odd. obviously neither of these is actually like, indicative of much, since the coalition did ultimately fail, but maybe it's indicative of partners... i'll go check that after breakfast

{ari, dats, irrel, skitter} (i'm adding you there because i feel like it applies) were exceedingly likely to get in, nobody there didn't seem to be much desperation from anyone else, therefore there's scum in that group? i guess i disagree with the premise of people not being really desperate since i think both fire and mala fit that criteria at least at some points... mena was absent for a bit, so not like he could've gotten depserate anyway, and he voted in a coalition that was not his first choice when he got back; and std did not seem thrilled about being out...

like let me know if i'm misunderstanding your point, but i feel like "there wasn't much desperation about the coalition, therefore there's scum in the more narrow consensus" is not correct?

For the purposes of this question i'm looking at people in the coalition: we know there's at least one scum in it

Yet nobody who got in was really anxious or panicky about getting in - to me that kinda implies that there's scum in the earlier consensus who didnt need to worry abt getting in

Like i'm not so worried abt fire getting desperate, cuz if he's scum one of his partners was basically in already
Same with mala

[skitter30]

Unless we want to posit that they're like scum with exactly mena

[skitter30]

Mena switching from "kill STD" to "kill Rella -> Ari" after acknowledging he's the most likely elim today feels like a spew that would be harmful to his scum partner since I don't think it would be either of them in that scenario,

I dont understand this bit

[skitter30]

there was another game before I went on hiatus (I think? can try to find it) where skitt p much singlehandedly stopped me being mislimmed despite most everyone else being convinced I was scum, which is why I can believe in her reading me correctly when it might not be so to the rest of the PL

I'm p sure this was perpetual elo fwiw
So uh not sure rhis is the best example lol

Also <3 to irrel and mena both

Ill interact like meaningfully later, i'm in the office today

[skitter30]

Oh that makes me sad :(

<3 relly

[skitter30]

Wait do i know who u are?

[skitter30]

The one who i cant read and therefore have this lovely avi?

[skitter30]

Kk >.>

[skitter30]

@bloodhail how mucu did u read in advance?
Why am i obvtown?

(I know that there's stuff in the middle to/abt me, i'll get to it when i get home later)

[skitter30]

Because I hate this but uhhhhhhhhh page 77 and I’m not sure Menalque is scum. Hahahahaha I feel like an insane person making this post, it feels like a death wish. But. Do we really both make “sorry for heating up the thread” posts at the same time as tvs? Lol I hate mafia

Fwiw this made mw think of when ceph and fire both wrote long cases on me within minutes in lake melancholy

[skitter30]

I'm also concerned that your re-evaluation may be prompted by concern that you might lose the 1v1 and that would be, to borrow a phrase from antiquity "v bad for scum"

I am however happy to try and talk in case I am wrong and it's not you

I also have to admit that I've been skimming some of your posts while you've been tunnelled on me so if you already talked about this point me at where, but what do you think of skitter this game?

Ig i feel a little mean saying this given that he's bo longer here but the first paragraph crossed my mind too

[skitter30]

I guess maybe she would be worried that she might look bad for being wrong on me when she's normally incredibly good? but that seems weak because I don't think she worries about much at all when scum, and that probably doesn't get picked up on by anyone other than maybe datisi

Fwiw if i dont just go after you hard to begin with i probably make ~vague protesting noises~ without doing anything meaningful to prevent yout flip from happening

[skitter30]

You think she’s defending Menalque specifically because she would be obvscum to you and Menalque if she didn’t?

yes but not really -- i think her "i would've gone after mena on d2 if i was scum in this game" is false because if she did go after mena, she would make herself obvscum *to him*, and then i would loudly sheep his dying words the next day (or she'd have to shoot me and remove a possible misyeet)

Still think i would havd at the start of the day

~
Paranoia of ari increasing >.>

[skitter30]

@datisi,skitter 1522 i finally got ari to answer this but i just don't see a town!mena doing this to me. yes/no please tell me if i'm wrong for suspecting mena for accusing me of not having a case on him when i can cite evidence where i did

i think u both have v differnt playstyles and are scumreading the other for reasons that seem good to you but don't apply to the other and are therefor tunneled
i think this is tvt

[skitter30]

i am 89% confident aristeia is town after finishing reading her iso

in particular her approach to the conflict between my slot and menalque just desnt seem scummy to me - while i

could

see her as scum capitulating to elim irrelephant because thats the easy way out i dunno that she lampshades the thing as tvt as mafia, just feels like putting th cart before the horse too much, if shes trying to murder a town i expect her to just do it rather than set up for day 3 or w/e

Seems scummy to me

[skitter30]

but again you actually took the time to talk to me about it so i appreciate it it's datisi and skitter who have just ignored all attempts irrel and i had to make cases against mena and who the hell knows where NK15 is at

:( i responded last night

[skitter30]

I dont think bloodhail's done anything particularly townie (esp. for him ) since repping in

I still kinda think that slot's the scum
With quite a lot of paranoia on ari
And mild-to-moderate amts of paranoia on dats

[skitter30]

from me or from her? going to need a little elaboration

ari

[skitter30]

i feel like this is a little unfair since you can't actually explain it since you aren't him
but i'm somewhat worried of the timing of irrel's backtrack on mena: when it looked like he/mena were going to go 1-2 in either order.
to me, i'm reading that a bit like he realized he's gonna die soon and needs to find a way to de-escalate and find another person to push

if you can share @bloodhail what you think was particularly townie abt irrel that would be appreciated

and i guess if it isn't you/him i'm kinda at a loss where i want to go
i feel v confident it isn't mena
otherwise idk

also i'm a little hmmmm? on your read on me

[skitter30]

will try when i have time although i have like 3 different things to address now and attempting to towncase my slot is probably the least important, you know?

that's fair
i do kinda want to read it tho, so if you could find the time for it i would appreciate it, but no worries
even just like 2-3 sentence summary of the key reason or two would be awesome

~

i mean: kill me and then maybe give consideration to my own read? just a thought

i mean if you end up being town i certainly would

~

i can feel the jealousy

not sure what u mean by this?
i'm a little concerned that the read on me is somewhat flat and easy

~

okay so, i dunno how much i wanna drill down into the ari read in particular but: if ari is mafia who do you think has the potential to be her partner, because fmpov there aren't a lot of likely possibilities

dats-roden-nk15 with some paranoia on u

~

if skitter is scum then she is the scum in the coalition and her not doing enough to get STD in is...entirely irrelevant. it does not change the gamestate

AT ALL if STD is in coalition or out of coalition in skitter-scum worlds.

I would think Datisi is sharp enough to realize this. the idea he posits is that skitter would have done more as town but is really just making the presumption that town always plays optimally or ideally and that's just not true. people are timid sometimes. it does not make them scum. skitter is often indecisive as town. i dont think this is a genuine suspicion on datisis part.

tbf i was also kinda ???? about the purpose of dats' questioning since i don't think it really seemed scum-motivated at all
but i also didn't realize the bolded

[skitter30]

<3 ari

[skitter30]

sorry i'm not trying to be annoying >.>

i just feel like i'm going around and around and around in circles and i'm not getting clarity on anyone so i'm kinda collectively doubting all three of you
to various fluctuating levels

if irrel is scum then the rep is literally mirroring my position which makes me not aligned with the rep.

if irrel is town then the rep came to the same conclusions as me independently which still makes me town

but also i'm not sure this follows for me:
- don't see why bloodhail mimicking you makes you unaligned (in fact i can see a universe where he's your partner and saw taht and said that *because* you said that)
- coming to the same conclusions as you doesn't make you town either

~
@fire thanks, that's a valid point
rethinkign this i think it would be with dats (which is a lot of what's making me Nervous abt their interactions i suppose)

[skitter30]

that didn't occur to me either >.>
ugh maybe you are town

i really am kinda lost here if it isn't bloodhail

[skitter30]

dats = you
bloodhail = they?

i was also a little confused

[skitter30]

@bloodhail why do u think scum-dats has been townreading mena so vociferously?
Also what do u think abt the fact that he gave v similar reasons to townread mena as u just did ... ?

Also @std a lot of what bloodhail said abt mena is similar to what i said on ur respectivr cases on each other last night

[skitter30]

not my fault you're an easy read lmao

uhhhh ... see prior examples where i was decidedly not an easy read for you?
and i don't think you've had a chance to read me properly since then, no?

and if you think she's with me or datisi, then you should basically always flip one of us first rather than ari b/c we have more potential partners than ari

fair enuf, i think that this is actually a decent approach

because mena is an omgussy boy and he doesnt want to get on his bad side. (that's how i played around mena as scum, lol)

the reasoning for mena-town is more or less accurate. that doesnt matter a ton to me. scum can give reasoning for townreads that is true and accurate because they have perfect info.

ig this is kinda what dats is sort of paranoia-scum on me for ...
like ig why am i not scum who's just townreading mena to get on his good side and why isn't dats just town who knows how to read mena properly?

[skitter30]

i'm not sure i'm going to get to a better answer than 'bloodhail' today before deadline

[skitter30]

I was more thinking of the slaughterhouse example

[skitter30]

i'm not sure i'm going to get to a better answer than 'bloodhail' today before deadline

i kinda buy that he wouldn't have entered like this as scum but im not sure if that's like reasonable at all

idk i am weak

I mean sure but idk who i would vote otherwise

[skitter30]

So if u flip town here you'd want us to flip dats tom?

@bloodhail

[skitter30]

Ty

Maybe i should revive my read if dats/ari svt from way back when ...
Woule make a lot of sense tbh with how day1/now is playing out

[skitter30]

Also dats i'm a little confused why ur sticking with ur reasons to townread ari when even ari said they were bad reasons

[skitter30]

Ok attempting to read thru dats's iso (backwards apparently)

It is kinda interesting that dats kinda just strongly defended mena in the mena/irrel thing but never really progressed a read on irrel

Honestlu for a lot of it the argument he's basically calling it tvt while putting a whole lot of scrutiny towards me. But without voting me either

His argument with me earlier is still very hmmmmm
And i'm honestly still not sure what he was scumreading me for there / was trying to get out of it

I still kinda think dats should recognize this is not my scumgame

Dats doesnt really have a firm scumread all day tbh, and honestly from the earlier part of the phase i'm unsure why he isnt pushing me more

I'm still having a hard time with the narrative of 1333, esp since i think he glossed over posts right in the middle that i feel went against his point
The main thing he had a strong reaction to all of day1 was me .... not even pushing him, but pushing ari. And then the sr on me just kinda fizzled out at some point too

Kinda just continuing to go thru it, a lot od his scumreads are a little ephemeral tbh

Dats why were u so opposed to std even being in the coalition again? Like i'm reading backwards but u very emphatically refuse me/irrel/std/mena in 1037 in favor of me/you/mena/irrel/std (i.e. taking out std, adding you and ari), but u have a post from later that morning iso-ing std and walking back the scumread a bit

Contrast between ari and dats: ari p consistently was fine with being out (and so was irrel). Basically all of dats' coalitions that i've been seeing always have him in it

Also like i referenced above: dats/ari right around rvs were really, really weird

Ok after that exercise not sure why i'm townreading dats tbh

[skitter30]

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

?

[skitter30]

ironically enough, my takeaway from 2097 is that skitter should be the one realizing that this is not my scumgame

i could write a case on why this is very much not my scumgame but like, i know most people don't exactly care about reading that sorta thing

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

I'm trying to do my due diligence and see if there's something i'm missijg on u, esp. since both ari and bloodhail are saying its likely u if mena/bloodhail is tvt

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

[skitter30]

BECAUSE I THOUGHT ARI WAS TOWNIER THAN HIM

Just going to point out that it wasnt a dichotomy between ari and std particularly ...
Ans again there was quite a lot of overlap between my coaliton and yours and you kinda just dismissed mine out of hand

[skitter30]

consistently try to push the people that are ABOSLUTE HELL to misyeet into the coalition with me

is this something that scum does?? do you think i hate myself so much i'd walk into a coalition with people such as you and mena and ari that i know for a fact scum-me can't outpost, and irrel who i can very much see is a competent and a high-wim player

so many times there was someone who talked about maybe putting in nk15 or mala or fire or std

and those are all people that are easier to deal with than all of you (and you can't argue they're all my partners) and that i would be having a much easier time turning on later on but nope? i decide to stand my ground and get the players i know i can't win a fight against as scum into the coalition because why??? i think the wifom argument is going to carry me to victory??

But most of those people were getting in anyways
The only person out of std/fire/mala/nk15 who had a reasonable chance of getting in at all was std
So i'm not sure where the bolded comes from, or if was a viable option even (and thus making your actions unlikely to come from scum)

Also your whole response to me is kinda ?and emotional and lowkey aggressive amd doesnt really respond to my concerns

[skitter30]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

[skitter30]

what's the question mark for. bloodhail is claiming how i should've have been questioning you based on your reversal on std/ari because it didn't have any possible scum!motivation for you therefore i'm scum pushing a contradiction for the sake of pushing it. i think there was scum motivation for what you did.

I dont understand the scum motivation you're describing

[skitter30]

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me. (1)

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town??? (2)

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because??? (3)

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here (4)

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed. (5)

Adding numbers to the things i'm responding to above

1. She said she thinks its you/roden if bh/mena are tvt. I am reevaluating my read on u in case i'm wrong on bh. Nor sure what the difference is between whaat i'm doing and what she's doing.

2. I dont know, but you're strongly townreading mena and kinda vaguely townreading irrel. I cant imagine that you're going to vote for mena here, so idk why you arent working on your irrel read (or, if you think he's town, working on ur read on ari/dats, which fundementally probably boils down to scumreading me given your read on ari, except you're not really pushing me eithe)

3. I mean i dont think it was viable for you to prop up nk15 or mala or fire to befin with. Std is the one i dont understand

4. Why u over std ? I do give both ari and irrel some amt of town points for not really caring if they got in or not. Eveb mena to some extent. For you, it was also a given that you were getting in. Why didnt you entertain std in some other coalition also?

5. Idk, was just expecting a little bit of a different response i guess

[skitter30]

. For you, it was also a given that you were getting

*almost* ugh

[skitter30]

> say "scum want both partners inside right" to give a vibe that scum-you would've been doing that if scum
> keep std out of the coalition so that you don't have to deal with pushes on him once the coalition fails
> either win by flipping three other people
> if you get flipped, people with knowledge of your meta probably don't look at him because skitter is kind of bus happy and it's the coalition setup and why'd she be townreading her buddy

at this point this isn't exactly a universe i believe in since you are now nowhere near the biggest suspect for me within the coalition but at the time, i thought it was something worth exploring

Ok but the scum motivation you're describing only applies if i'm scum with exactly std? Otherwise i still dont understand ...

And i think you'd have a v hard time actually describing/explaining how inwas trying to keep std out of the coalition ...

[skitter30]

she does not

but she has also seen me play town like this a decent amount and the reasons she mentioned for me being scum don't really vibe with me considering she used to falsely suspect me based on them previously and the fact that she's turning around on that when bloodhail starts pushing me is convenient

Not sure if i've seen u play town like this before?

Also bloodhail saying the same thing as ari is makig me wonder if i'm going wrong on you, and i read through your iso and realized i dont have strong reasons to townread yu at all, but i do have some questionable things to ponder
(Noting that scum-bloodhail might just be amplifying town-ari tho. But if we flip him and he is town i do want to consider what he's saying)

[skitter30]

Dats
Like
Who do you want to flip today?
I still dont know

[skitter30]

No, i would say that was not obvious

[skitter30]

also I don't really get why you are worried about bloodhail getting lolhammered if you like think he's scum trying to misflip you and you're worried he's going to misflip you

Fwiw this does kind od make sense to me - even if i think someone is scum, i dont necessarily want to end the day early

[skitter30]

what is my scum motivation for sitting around and not deciding on someone to just push through? like, how does scum!me benefit from this way of playing? i know how to fake argument as scum. i know how to push people. i know that those things get people townread. the one (1) benefit i get from playing this way as scum is being able to make this argument, which would be designed to get me out of shit i wouldn't even be in in the first place if i had just picked someone to push through and d2 was over

I mean if you're scum and mena/irrel is tvt it kinda behooves you to just vaguely watch this happening from the sidelines; you probably dont need to push either, or any other scumread

[skitter30]

Like a townflip will just happen without getting ur hands dirty

[skitter30]

(3) it wasn't viable at any *singular* point on d1. but i kept keeping those doors closed and not even checking if it *could* be made viable.

(4) because i know i am town and i don't know the colour of std's role pm? irrel offered to not vote himself in at the time where it was very very likely he was going to get in one way or another. and why would i be considering std in a different coalition, what different coalition? any would've been less preferred that the one with the townreads i had

3: i mean it was p apparent that they werent super viable, idk if you get townpoints for not trying to make things that weren't viable viable

4: fair enuf, that's what i thought u would say

[skitter30]

like I kind of recognize it's possible that bh!scum decided to amplify my paranoia on your slot and just straight up kamikaze you to get out of the 1v1 with mena that he's likely losing

This thought did cross my mind
But he's also not trying to get out of getting flipped either

[skitter30]

yeah, because it's definitely a given that leaving them alone would mean they would keep tunneling each other and wouldn't ever reconsider

and it's also definitely a given that others stops reading everyone other than mena/irrel

and if they flip t/t, nobody is ever going back to try to reread who was playing around it like scum

definitely much easier to risk all of that than just pick a person and tip them over

I mean i think if irrel doesnt rep out, the day was v likely to end with mena or irrel getting flipped

If its tvt, i'm not sure scum needs to do anything else

[skitter30]

I'm kinda debating rn if i should just stick with bloodhail with the understanding that if he flips town i go to dats tomorrow
Or if i should just switch to dats now

[skitter30]

VOTE: bloodhail

Y-1

part of me still does not want to make this vote, because if he really is a confbiased townie, then i'll get instamurdered tomorrow and good luck solving that yeetlo. but here we are i guess.

I dont understand this post ...

[skitter30]

and both menalque and irrelephant seem like players who absolutely get death tunnelled on someone and never reconsider their reads. skitt, you've seen me play scum. you know how much i plan things. if i were to see a tvt pair that everyone else is tunnelled on too, i don't just ~wait~ and ~hope they go through~, because i've been burned before by a tvt turning into a mutual townread. you push that shit through when you have the chance.

I mean, like, i guess
But like i guess you've also just been watching and waiting and not really pushing who you've thought is scum for most of the day

And like i guess you could just be lazy, but i've also had no idea where you've been wanting to find scum for most of the day, ajd even now you're lowkey positing bh vs mena is tvt and i'm still not sure where you'd want to go afterwards (ig me by default, maybe)

And like it isnt really necessary to push either if you think flipping in the argument is inevitable

[skitter30]

@skitt, i wish i could be 100% that he's scum. i'm feeling anxiety about the vote because if he does die today and turns out green, tomorrow is going to be pain and yeetlo is going to be difficult.

I mean sure but i still dont even know how you're reading bh ...

[skitter30]

Because in 2226 you're at once saying:

- his read on you is bs and you're voting him (implying scum)
- while also sayinf you dont think he's most likely scum

This is kinda incongruent and confusing

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

VOTE: bloodhail

Y-1

part of me still does not want to make this vote, because if he really is a confbiased townie, then i'll get instamurdered tomorrow and good luck solving that yeetlo. but here we are i guess.

The part where you're v worried that he's flipping town

[skitter30]

Ugh i see a lot has happened and i'm like super busy can someone just give me a quick tldr?

[skitter30]

No

[skitter30]

Not right now and i cant decide this in the next two hours

[skitter30]

Sorry sorry reading now

A *massive* wasp just like appeared in my apt and i needed to kinda take care of it >.>

[skitter30]

reading reading frantically
bits were v unpleansant to read

i think ari's reaction was town, idk why she swings to mena here as scum, mena is no longer viable probably
i kinda think bh's reaction was town too
i'm getting mroe sus of mena but i don't think i can get myself to vote there in the next hour

so i'm leaning towards dats

[skitter30]

sorry i dont' think i have the time or ability to fully answer that in the next like few min, and i need to bounce soon

[skitter30]

dats anything else you want to say? super sorry if this is wrong!

[skitter30]

but the tldr is that idk why she swings to u suddenly at the eleventh hour here, when scum-her can just, like, not

@mena

if she's scum at least one of dats/bh is town and they were p close and i think (not sure/ didn't go back to check tho) that she's the deciding vote so
idk why she goes onto you

[skitter30]

thats also what i got

dats who do you even want to flip rn, like every option has a caveat for you
like idk

i don't feel great about anyone but we have to do something
i don't think i'd vote ari
probably not still mena but like i can't think through this rn and wouldn't vote him without thinking it through
bloodhail has been really townie since rep-in, even in the last few pages
and so i'm left with you

if it's not you i will greatly reconisder this like overnight and tomorrow when i have a ton more time >.>

[skitter30]

i'm sorry mena i can't process / think abt it now, i promise i will overnight

pedit dats if i understand the post above right, you're saying you would vote ari at e1 if there was a wagon at her, no?

[skitter30]

ok i need to bounce momentarily ...
i can hammer but uhhhh very indecisive !!!

[skitter30]

ugh ugh ugh i really hate making decisions ...

dats if this is wrong what should i do tomorrow

and yeah i'm disappointed abt eod and i'm sorry if i'm skimming over anything and not hearing people out but ... friday afternoon with an imminent deadline :(

pedit ok :(
i'm sorry

[skitter30]

for me if this is wrong g2h i'm very sus of bh but honestly i'd re-evaluate a lot tomorrow ...

[skitter30]

we're ok with a hammer?

[skitter30]

sorry sorry i'm v busy friday afternoons >.>

VOTE: dats
i'm very sorry if this is wrong >.>

<3 to everyone, hopefully we can collectively feel better overnight

and if this is wrong super sus of bloodhail ^

[skitter30]

Well that's an interesting night kill ...

I probably want to flip nk15 today

[skitter30]

I dont think its fire at all

[skitter30]

Ig i'm not sure fire joins the eod dats wagon when partnered with dats

And nk15 spent like all of day1 insisting ari/dats were svs and then started pushing ari alone day2, and then just dropped this theory
And my understanding is this is p much his scum-meta

Dats had a few posts particularly objecting when i mentioned the dats/nk15 theory
(And he even said @bloodhail that if he were scum with nk15 the approach you just described is how he'd approach the game ... )

~
Ari probably isnt scum with that eod but yeah
I do kinda stand by my point that the point of failure was including ari/dats

[skitter30]

Ok actually i cant find where dats said that but i very distinctly remember him telling me that that's how he'd be approaching the game here as scum

[skitter30]

No, i remember him saying it i thought in our big argument but i cant find it now

[skitter30]

Why does roden kill faker instead of either of the 2 people sayong its dats/mala?

[skitter30]

no, i'll see if i can find it later

[skitter30]

My reads suck

all of ours do at times, it's ok :)

[skitter30]

@skitt - when you get a chance let's talk and go over everyone. i'm like 99% confident you're town, hopefully you're there on me, let's try to work together to figure this out

k
i'm around a bit now

i'm kinda readign the game like

me
std
bloodhail/ari
fire
roden
nk15

and kinda just want to go up from the bottom
i can probably be convinced on roden
not sure as much on fire

but this is where i am rn

[skitter30]

i was trying to get another opinion >.>

[skitter30]

but if we think std is town i think the winning coalition + the coalition i was voting for are functionally equivalent so i'm not sure we can read into them super much

like i said i think the point of failure was earlier, when including ari/dats

actually writing this out i'm less sure of fire than i was, hmmm

[skitter30]

because ?

[skitter30]

my big issue right now is i'm not comfortable with clearing ari

Y tho?

[skitter30]

my big issue right now is i'm not comfortable with clearing ari

Y tho?

uh my feeling was that even though it felt like her towngame when i was reading initially and i recognize that she helped datisi go over yesterday which is very uncharacteristic of scum-her i get paranoid of the attempted push on mena when i was calling for a 1v1 with datisi

sorry i asked twice, my wifi glitched and i didn't realize the first had gone thru >.>

yeah i can understand that ...
i guess i'm just not sure why scum-her even brings dats up as an option eod at all
i don't think it gains enuf traction with just you then
like i don't think i switch over to dats if ari doesn't also start pushing that then

like the fact that she didn't end up there and started pushing mena is a little hmmmmm? i agree
but like i'm not sure why she behaves as she did prior to that partnered with dats

maybe i'm clearing her too easily idk

[skitter30]

I mean i would make a note that i'm not trying to flip u rn @dats, and that i didnt vote you or anything. I'm suspicious of you but i havent actually done anything to really get you voted out, as I'm not at the point where i'm convined you're

the

scum rn; i'm still trying to sort this mess out. But i am a little Sus of this push on me, as i dont really understand how/why you think i'd have taken this tactic as scum

how do you seem to know there is only one scum in the coalition :thonk:

hmmm