Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Datisi]

Datisi!town doesn't need to discred BloodHail!scum because BloodHail!scum is going to flip scum.

Datisi only needs to discred BloodHail if bloodHail is going to flip town

ok thank you, and im saying that datisi!town isn't necessarily sure that bloodhail is going to flip at all right now

like i think there's a world where the lim ends up on mena or even datisi today

and if datisi is town and thinks bloodhail is scum then wouldn't discrediting help prevent that?

i'm not sure where this line of conversation even came from, but like

if i (either alignment) thought it was inevitable bloodhail flips today, i don't have to spend time discrediting and arguing with him either way

if i (either alignment) thought there's a chance he actually gets his way (which, uh, i kind of think there is considering the thread atmosphere) then i gotta argue against him

if i could magically know for certain what he's gonna flip and use my energy accordingly, i would, but alas

[Datisi]

@bloodhail why do u think scum-dats has been townreading mena so vociferously?
Also what do u think abt the fact that he gave v similar reasons to townread mena as u just did ... ?

because mena is an omgussy boy and he doesnt want to get on his bad side. (that's how i played around mena as scum, lol)

the reasoning for mena-town is more or less accurate. that doesnt matter a ton to me. scum can give reasoning for townreads that is true and accurate because they have perfect info.

ah yeah, because going "hey mena. i townread you. no paranoia whatsoever. here have a towncase on you." is an amazing way to get him to townread me and would absolutely never backfire

and i'm annoyed abt the "scum can give reasoning that is accurate" because true only to a degree - scum have perfect info, sure, but they still need to fake their way onto presenting that info. i don't think the case i did on mena is close to anything i've ever done as scum but this is an easy way to discredit it bc "lol scum haves info"

[Datisi]

Also dats i'm a little confused why ur sticking with ur reasons to townread ari when even ari said they were bad reasons

because there are certain reasons that she did not say were bad, and because i don't think scum!her tries to shut down my townread of her the way she did, and because there is nothing good to come today from attempting to flip her

[Datisi]

ironically enough, my takeaway from 2097 is that skitter should be the one realizing that this is not my scumgame

i could write a case on why this is very much not my scumgame but like, i know most people don't exactly care about reading that sorta thing

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

[Datisi]

Dats why were u so opposed to std even being in the coalition again? Like i'm reading backwards but u very emphatically refuse me/irrel/std/mena in 1037 in favor of me/you/mena/irrel/std (i.e. taking out std, adding you and ari), but u have a post from later that morning iso-ing std and walking back the scumread a bit

BECAUSE I THOUGHT ARI WAS TOWNIER THAN HIM

like jesus chirst think for a bit what my scum plan was in this game

consistently shade the slots that are lower on the poe

consistently try to push the people that are ABOSLUTE HELL to misyeet into the coalition with me

is this something that scum does?? do you think i hate myself so much i'd walk into a coalition with people such as you and mena and ari that i know for a fact scum-me can't outpost, and irrel who i can very much see is a competent and a high-wim player

so many times there was someone who talked about maybe putting in nk15 or mala or fire or std and those are all people that are easier to deal with than all of you (and you can't argue they're all my partners) and that i would be having a much easier time turning on later on but nope? i decide to stand my ground and get the players i know i can't win a fight against as scum into the coalition because why??? i think the wifom argument is going to carry me to victory???

[Datisi]

i shouldn't be getting tilted

but seeing such bad arguments against me be actually listened to because ??? is lol

[skitter30]

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

?

[skitter30]

ironically enough, my takeaway from 2097 is that skitter should be the one realizing that this is not my scumgame

i could write a case on why this is very much not my scumgame but like, i know most people don't exactly care about reading that sorta thing

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

I'm trying to do my due diligence and see if there's something i'm missijg on u, esp. since both ari and bloodhail are saying its likely u if mena/bloodhail is tvt

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

[skitter30]

BECAUSE I THOUGHT ARI WAS TOWNIER THAN HIM

Just going to point out that it wasnt a dichotomy between ari and std particularly ...
Ans again there was quite a lot of overlap between my coaliton and yours and you kinda just dismissed mine out of hand

[skitter30]

consistently try to push the people that are ABOSLUTE HELL to misyeet into the coalition with me

is this something that scum does?? do you think i hate myself so much i'd walk into a coalition with people such as you and mena and ari that i know for a fact scum-me can't outpost, and irrel who i can very much see is a competent and a high-wim player

so many times there was someone who talked about maybe putting in nk15 or mala or fire or std

and those are all people that are easier to deal with than all of you (and you can't argue they're all my partners) and that i would be having a much easier time turning on later on but nope? i decide to stand my ground and get the players i know i can't win a fight against as scum into the coalition because why??? i think the wifom argument is going to carry me to victory??

But most of those people were getting in anyways
The only person out of std/fire/mala/nk15 who had a reasonable chance of getting in at all was std
So i'm not sure where the bolded comes from, or if was a viable option even (and thus making your actions unlikely to come from scum)

Also your whole response to me is kinda ?and emotional and lowkey aggressive amd doesnt really respond to my concerns

[Aristeia]

i am starting to wonder if we were getting bamboozled by a skitter/irrel team because the fact that bloodhail comes in and starts screaming about how i'm scum and skitter continues saying she doesn't know who it is if not bloodhail, but when i get another vote she goes on this tangent where she explains how hey maybe datisi is not that townie hmm hmm hmm

that exchange where irrel tries to twist skitter's arm into voting mena was very non-aligned imo

it's also incredibly bad strategy for her to bus irrel-scumpartner atp because if she flips him, it will look kind of weird when she survives to elo.

[Aristeia]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

[Datisi]

like, i didn't want to say it at the time to not tip skitter off to what i was thinking but i thought that had a lot of scum motivation if she's scum with std. keep saying how scum probably wants both partners inside, get him out the coalition, he's safe while she gets to push others. who would've seen it coming because she's bus happy and by the time she flips red it's not going to matter.

?

what's the question mark for. bloodhail is claiming how i should've have been questioning you based on your reversal on std/ari because it didn't have any possible scum!motivation for you therefore i'm scum pushing a contradiction for the sake of pushing it. i think there was scum motivation for what you did.

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me.

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town???

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because???

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed.

[skitter30]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

[Datisi]

sometimes i wonder how do i manage to be an open book to some and a complete mystery to others

[skitter30]

what's the question mark for. bloodhail is claiming how i should've have been questioning you based on your reversal on std/ari because it didn't have any possible scum!motivation for you therefore i'm scum pushing a contradiction for the sake of pushing it. i think there was scum motivation for what you did.

I dont understand the scum motivation you're describing

[Aristeia]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

well according to him you do? >.>

[Datisi]

> say "scum want both partners inside right" to give a vibe that scum-you would've been doing that if scum
> keep std out of the coalition so that you don't have to deal with pushes on him once the coalition fails
> either win by flipping three other people
> if you get flipped, people with knowledge of your meta probably don't look at him because skitter is kind of bus happy and it's the coalition setup and why'd she be townreading her buddy

at this point this isn't exactly a universe i believe in since you are now nowhere near the biggest suspect for me within the coalition but at the time, i thought it was something worth exploring

[Datisi]

And like why should i be realizing this isnt your scumgame?
(And why doesnt this logic apply to ari?)

cuz I'm just not very good at reading him tbh ~_~

And i have a long history of reading him right?

well according to him you do? >.>

she does not

but she has also seen me play town like this a decent amount and the reasons she mentioned for me being scum don't really vibe with me considering she used to falsely suspect me based on them previously and the fact that she's turning around on that when bloodhail starts pushing me is convenient

[skitter30]

how should this logic be applying to ari? i don't get the feeling she was inching towards pushing me. (1)

do you think that scum!me doesn't know how to fake reads and how to push people. this is going to the same bullshit that we were going through in that pyp game, like. i KNOW people think fencesitting and being ambivalent is scummy. what do you think, how long would it take for scum!me to decide which one out of mena/irrel to push at? if you think my buddy is within them, i'd be able to decide whether or not to bus. i'd have been making theatre with my buddy, making sure i have enough towncred to win the game if they go down because it's kind of evident they're gonna go down at some point. if my partner isn't within the two of them, EVEN BETTER. i'm having a game handed to me on a silver platter and i'm waiting around for what? for mena and irrel to maybe start finding each other to be town??? (2)

and the point of "well std was the only one likely to even get in from that group" is uh, yeah. i know. that's my point. look at my play throughout the game. does it make sense for scum!me to spearhead a coalition where i'm gonna be having trouble breathing after it fails? like, trying to prop up someone like nk15 or mala or std or fire that people are more ambivalent towards and that is going to be an easy someone to turn on and push through. instead i shut down possible townreads of those people because??? (3)

and you asked me why i was for a coalition that contained me/ari and not std and was otherwise similar, how is that not framing it as a dichotomy? like if you have a question, then ask, but i don't get what you're asking me here (4)

what do you want me to address. you just went through my iso saying "well this is not townie this is not townie" etc. like the only thing i think i *can* respond to is why i wanted ari > std and your comment about my 1333 (which i addressed at the time you first brought up). like if you want me to address something, tell me what you want addressed. (5)

Adding numbers to the things i'm responding to above

1. She said she thinks its you/roden if bh/mena are tvt. I am reevaluating my read on u in case i'm wrong on bh. Nor sure what the difference is between whaat i'm doing and what she's doing.

2. I dont know, but you're strongly townreading mena and kinda vaguely townreading irrel. I cant imagine that you're going to vote for mena here, so idk why you arent working on your irrel read (or, if you think he's town, working on ur read on ari/dats, which fundementally probably boils down to scumreading me given your read on ari, except you're not really pushing me eithe)

3. I mean i dont think it was viable for you to prop up nk15 or mala or fire to befin with. Std is the one i dont understand

4. Why u over std ? I do give both ari and irrel some amt of town points for not really caring if they got in or not. Eveb mena to some extent. For you, it was also a given that you were getting in. Why didnt you entertain std in some other coalition also?

5. Idk, was just expecting a little bit of a different response i guess

[skitter30]

. For you, it was also a given that you were getting

*almost* ugh

[skitter30]

> say "scum want both partners inside right" to give a vibe that scum-you would've been doing that if scum
> keep std out of the coalition so that you don't have to deal with pushes on him once the coalition fails
> either win by flipping three other people
> if you get flipped, people with knowledge of your meta probably don't look at him because skitter is kind of bus happy and it's the coalition setup and why'd she be townreading her buddy

at this point this isn't exactly a universe i believe in since you are now nowhere near the biggest suspect for me within the coalition but at the time, i thought it was something worth exploring

Ok but the scum motivation you're describing only applies if i'm scum with exactly std? Otherwise i still dont understand ...

And i think you'd have a v hard time actually describing/explaining how inwas trying to keep std out of the coalition ...

[skitter30]

she does not

but she has also seen me play town like this a decent amount and the reasons she mentioned for me being scum don't really vibe with me considering she used to falsely suspect me based on them previously and the fact that she's turning around on that when bloodhail starts pushing me is convenient

Not sure if i've seen u play town like this before?

Also bloodhail saying the same thing as ari is makig me wonder if i'm going wrong on you, and i read through your iso and realized i dont have strong reasons to townread yu at all, but i do have some questionable things to ponder
(Noting that scum-bloodhail might just be amplifying town-ari tho. But if we flip him and he is town i do want to consider what he's saying)

[skitter30]

Dats
Like
Who do you want to flip today?
I still dont know

[Datisi]

bloodhail

i thought it was obvious

before you ask, i'm not voting him because that puts him at y-1 and i'm trying to give people time to react to the current events without worry about a lolhammer