Micro 1067: Is There a Doctor in the House? - Game over!

[Scoliosis]

Hey guys I just bought a lottery ticket. Am hoping to win millions.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

24 GrandapaMo is scum and trying to pocket Elements and Tabibitos. I doubt he townread them that quickly.

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I guess Abnegation feels like scum. No reason, just a feeling.

This early game discussion topic is very out of my field so i'm just gonna leave the mech strategizing to Aether and focus on my own solving and just being adorable.


- Lumine

Where is NorwegianBoy? I want to talk to them.

Very very happy to sacrifice "fun" in the name of win %!

Same. If possible, I prefer we win through attrition.

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I have no read on Enchant in either direction. I might use Enchant as a baseline to compare everyone else because I don't think Enchant could be more null if they tried.

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I can't wait for all the kids to go back to school tomorrow.

how does our jk become a cop if they don’t know they’re the jk?

By dividing ourselves in two groups. We don't need to know who is the jailkeeper, we would just need to get a no NK night with one scum remaining. Even if they do no night kill to falsely incriminate someone, it's not as good as it may look in the paper because we can gain extra eliminations if they keep no night killing.

Jailkeeper is a very powerful role on one scum standing.

-Aether

yessss steal my intellectual idea!!! jk but that was my thought process before. we can also have everyone do no night action that or do circular save

Yeah this seems really pockety. I'm getting bad vibes from you, GrandapaMo.

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Where is NorwegianBoy? I want to talk to them.

I'm Norwegianboy. Shirou is Aether.

- Lumine

Oh okay, I will call you Lumine. I haven't played with Aether before. Did you two roll Town?

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I have no read on Enchant in either direction. I might use Enchant as a baseline to compare everyone else because I don't think Enchant could be more null if they tried.

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I read the setup strategy posts differently between GrandpaMo and Aether. Aether wrote their big analysis when they weren't really under pressure and they were also the first to do so. Being the first to write a big mech post is more of a risk socially because not everyone is going to want to read that, so I think that's less likely to come from Aether if they're townie. GrandpaMo though wrote their big analysis after they knew Aether was townread for doing so. GrandpaMo also wrote their big analysis while they knew they were already being suspected by a few players--like me--so it feels more like an attempt to fish for townreads.

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I'm pissed at myself for messing up so much in playing as a hydra....sorry you all.

@Aether

Angleshoot: this is ai that Aether is townie.

a chain plan risks more of us dying but it could also give us a lot of info.

A little part of me died inside when I read this.

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quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

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I read the setup strategy posts differently between GrandpaMo and Aether. Aether wrote their big analysis when they weren't really under pressure and they were also the first to do so. Being the first to write a big mech post is more of a risk socially because not everyone is going to want to read that, so I think that's less likely to come from Aether if they're townie. GrandpaMo though wrote their big analysis after they knew Aether was townread for doing so. GrandpaMo also wrote their big analysis while they knew they were already being suspected by a few players--like me--so it feels more like an attempt to fish for townreads.

m8 what... i promised to do this way before as soon as it was posted lol in post 107

also this analysis has nothing to do with any new plan this was something for us to come up with and help tabibtos and town with by providing what would happen as both tabibtos and several other people were wondering it too. its worth a read to see if its a good idea to create groups. i even wrote a tldr for those who didn't want to read.

i was never in pressure... ur the only one who had a "scumread" on me m8

ur just pulling sh*t from ur a**

I think promises and favors and what not are more likely to come from liars.

If your goal wasn't to suggest a new plan, why did you post all of your analysis in the thread? If you weren't trying to persuade us to do a particular plan then I think you were trying to persuade us to believe that you're townie.

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quack is only good if they are paired with mafia

I'm not sure how helpful all of this stuff really even is from GrandpaMo. It feels like GrandpaMo is afraid to take a risk with the strategies they're suggesting.

stop trying to address other people -- address me lol instead of trying to "avoid me"

how am i afraid to take risk?

I quoted one example already, here are three more:

overall, there are alot of complex plotholes in this meaning there are so much detail especially since we dont know what doctors we are that makes it more confusing.

also nurse takes weak doctor ability.

tldr; its an ok plan just has too many "loose holes" just like tabibitos said originally "theres many was this game can develop". i dont mind going with it because there is more benefits then there is limitations to it and stays consistent versus just solving based on rng.

I don't think stating what the roles do or reminding us that we don't know which doc type we got is going to help much, and at the end of all that you don't even suggest an alternative or take a strong stance on Aether's original plan. It all feels really safe and measured and kind of forced.

Not only that, I think accusing me of avoiding you is way too defensive and you keep "lol"ing at my posts which makes me think you might be nervous.

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theres a fallacy in that statement lol -- that's like you saying oh you scumread V/LA people because they are coasting

That's nothing like what I said at all.

if u are trying to reaction test u are doing a horrible job at it

I'm not reaction testing, I'm accusing you of fishing for town cred and being slimy because that's what I see. I think that's scummy that you would assume I'm reaction testing you; it's almost like you know I'm townie and you're trying to decide if you need to OMGUS me or not.

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VOTE: scandersvamp

This guy's votes are really bad.

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or pray i didn't roll quack/CPR

idk i don't care what anyone saying, if i want to kill you, you can only police me to save your sorry anime ass

LMAO

or pray i didn't roll quack/CPR

ima pray u didnt roll mafia

too bad you are in atheist world

too bad you are in atheist world

bismallah

I'm surprised there wasn't more pushback from Grandpa in 259. I don't know if it's AI.

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VOTE: scandersvamp

This guy's votes are really bad.

By really bad, I mean that the timing of his votes are really scummy.

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He's part of the hydra with Norwee.

yea but I don't understand why they are scurmrwaxing the individual and not the hydra lol

Maybe he didn't realise that Shirou was in the hydra?
You might be overanalysing a bit here.

becaue it looks like galron is fishing instead of reading.

freedom are u an alt, or are u new?

ur scummy behavior can TSTBS but i doubt it

I am an alt.

^ town

Why?

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Sorry not enough time or energy for this yet (about the mech stuff), I am fine doing what you guys agree on if it comes to that

As for reads, I thought about it and maybe Enchant is town for wanting to try targetting someone on their own early, it can e a prerogative to dismiss mech but it's probably town excited for potentially being a vig? Vigging is exciting after all.

Grandpa feels more likely town than not by saying stuff like "I already know the Nurse" on a setup where the Nurse may end up claiming anyway (otherwise it could be rolefishing). Not too sure about grandpa but I don't feel very good about anyone else so I'm gonna like his slot for now.

Elements mech solving is interesting, don't know what to think of that, did you ever do it before Elements? On what game?

- Aether

This is the first time I felt a scum ping reading Aether/Lumine posts

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I think at least one of Enchant or Grandpa are town (I ruled out their fight as being scum theater) and here's why:

231 is really similar to how Grandpa talked to me when he tried to get me to change my mind out of my FoS in 159. Unless Grandpa somehow predicted I would read back and look for this, I don't think Grandpa as scum would replicate the same approach he took with me that he would take with a scum buddy because the intent is very different. Then, in 259 I think if Grandpa and Enchant were doing scum theater Grandpa would have lashed back harder, because players take things less personally when they can laugh it out in a PT after, and I think that in a theater sense it would be natural to escalate the emotion there because they had started talking about religion.

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@grandpa: I'm actually not an alt, I haven't played in two years and don't know anyone

wrt abnegation's post, I agree with the logic behind it and I've been advocating for outing the nurse as IC in d1 as well (my idea being turning the game into a 9er with an IC and not use any NAs). But, does that affect your read on freedom?

I don't like this actually because I've seen a lot of scum play this card before. Have you played on other sites since then?

what do you think of galron, grandpa?

are u reading my mind lmaooo

i was just gonna ask u that because i had them on my bottom three of my readlist

towards a null. i first thought they voted abnegation because of their slip i saw but they did it for rvs then abnegation was going back and forth with them?

they have not contributed at all nd like i told enchant (well implied it to them) if they aint scum, then galron is my next on my list.

after that interaction i had with enchant, it made me like them a lot more and so went above galron in my readlist poe

so now i just have galron and freedom as my bottom two.

yeah, one of galron's 8 posts is voting shirou (who slipped their main acc into the thread playing under a hydra), in a way that felt like just trying to post some content and look like scumhunting. then unvoting and not moving anywhere else shows lack of intent, which I don't like

Is that something you have actually seen scum doing though?

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Also Gimli why are you townreading Vanderskamp?

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Because my playstyle is only dropping a read to immediately try to kill them and swing the momentum of the game. I am not dropping it right now and not being able to explain it in detail until Friday night.

Saying who I scum read without a convincing case behind doesn't help mich on actually killing the scum
- Aether

It makes sense to play that way sometimes on D1, I've done that before. Make sure you don't wait too long to out it, I've found that can cause them to slip away too.

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I'm down to doc target scum reads

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I live! It felt good to be back until I read the flips. Catching up now.

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Well played town. Overall, despite losing, I'm satisfied with how I played because I believe I did a great job emulating the kind of town play which would bias most of you to keep me alive. I was prepared--prepared to improvise, at least--if I survived to the final three scenario where I believed I could talk my way to a win as long as I wasn't cornered by town's night strategy. Despite my little victory dancing my way out of town's poe early on, I believe you definitely deserved to win and should be pleased with how you played because you really kicked butt with the setup analysis and worked together really well.

One thing that was interesting is that the amount of work you guys put into analyzing the setup paid off in more than just night actions: I was so overwhelmed by the volume and complexity of posts containing setup analysis (which I read as: here's a big post containing another 1001 ways to make scoliosis die) that I began skim reading the thread lighter and lighter the longer the game went on. This was most extreme on day two where I quickly lost track of what was going on and how much progress town was making toward solving the game. For example, I didn't realize (among many things) that town had deduced tabibitos was chosen as the night kill, I thought town believed elements was the night kill. I paid a sorry price. The sub plot of me gradually losing track of what-the-fuck-are-these-posts-really-implying climaxed when I told nm it was safe to go and troll the thread because we were in a crushing position and would probably win. I will leave my hubris unredacted in the scum chat for all to laugh at. I believe that town's sustained focus on solving the setup together helped to drive my mind away from what was going on which contributed at least indirectly--if not directly--to nm getting hammered instead of dragons.

Of course dragon's strong defensive play and town's engagement were probably stronger factors overall. I will maintain though that there was a relevant bonus to town for keeping the "thought space" I guess fixed in a place that was taxing for my fragile human mind to deeply consider.

Thank you mod for running the cool setup and I hope you run another game soon. Thank you everyone for playing and well done, but watch out: scum scoliosis is down but not out, thirsty for blood and will get you

back

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I thought for sure we would live past night 1 and be pushed for leading wagons on town. I wonder why we were killed.

My strategy was to win by talking my way out of town's crosshairs with whatever I could improvise. I had your hydra marked as my preferred n1 kill before the game even started. The last thing I need is the two of you working together and scouring the thread for all of the mistakes I would no doubt make the longer the game went on. The main deterring factor from killing you was that I expected it might be difficult to night kill a hydra in an open setup filled with doctors. When your reads were wrong d1 I saw it as an opening to get rid of you n1 before you earned credibility with the town. I also hoped the fact you were wrong d1 and died would confuse town and cause them to incorrectly tinfoil the target of the night kill. The fact you placed my slot in a healthy position in your poe and advocated for me a small amount gave me--in my mind--a bonus incentive to kill you quickly before you changed your mind. I'll elaborate:

About Freedom...honestly I don't know what I could say that Grandpa already didn't, but basically I feel like they solve any genuine eagerness to solve the game and have just been..."existing" before the wagon, and even now with the wagon they don't do much about it. I think he could easily be scum but also could just be town, he feels more engaged than Galron in the game but not enough to be very readable to me.

Then basically my readlist as of now would be something as:

[Grandpa] - town read
[Gimli] - town lean
[Enchant, Scoliosis] - nulltown
[Galron] - null
[Freedom] - nullscum
[Elements, Vanders] - scum lean
[---] - scum read

I call Vanders/Elements "scum reads" but in my readlist I reserve that for people that I think are like, lockscum or very near that, just as I find it very hard I'll ever change my mind about Grandpa being town and if he's scum congrats you fooled me very well.

I gotta say that I'm starting to find it very hard to believe both Vanders and Elements could be town though. At least one needs to be scum perhaps...?

But hm, not enough content on this game to be sure of that really, I feel we have talked about mech a bit too much and it has made the game less productive in terms of getting reads.

- Aether

Ah, I think Scoliosis is the unique slot I kinda like a bit that I haven't explained why:

It's basically because he seems to have a genuine bloodlust for finding scum and arrived at similar suspicious about Vanders as me. Doesn't feel a lot like a bus so perhaps if Vanders is really scum he's just town? Maybe? Gonna leave at that for now.

VOTE: Vanderscamp

I can compromise on Freedom though, just think Vanders or Elements is a bit more likely to flip scum than Freedom here for reasons explained.

- Aether

I'm not an expert on the game, I'm not a master manipulator, I'm only perhaps (at best) a D-tier mastermind, so I don't know if I'm correct on this: I was hoping you would say something favorable about me before d1 ended, not so that I could pocket you, but so that I could kill you. I never succumbed to hubris enough to believe I was invincible during daylight hours. I thought the nice words you gave me d1 would be more useful on paper as social proof than in practice as a prospective advocate when d2 came. I expected there was a good chance you would admit you were wrong d1, look over everyone again with more diligence and something to prove, reevaluate your assumptions and put me at the bottom of your poe where I belonged. My evaluation was that your misread on me d1 gave me an additional incentive to kill you immediately to preserve the slight credibility it gave me and minimize risk of losing it. The gist of it is that despite being wrong d1 I had faith you were still my greatest strategic obstacle for how I planned on winning the game.