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Post #170 (isolation #7) » Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:39 am
Postby Bellaphant »
In post 165, BloodB0t wrote:
UNVOTE: On re-evaluation, I don't think OE is scum. Seems quite townie.
@Bellephant: Can you elaborate on your thought process behind voting Arko?
Something just feels really inorganic? The auto townreads felt strange for doing what seemed very surface level set up stuff, rather than 'yay, town -sided!' or whatever, and then the convo with Ox again didn't vibe right: I ended up tr-ing the ox slot ans not feeling anything more about arko, which tends to be one of my red flags for scum: they end up feeling 'grey'. I need to think about rangers interactions with arko too.
In post 177, Ranger wrote:[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,
In post 26, Arko wrote:Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.
I loved this thought process.
I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65. 54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread. 154 is not a scum post.
There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.
Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!
Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?
This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.
I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)
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Post #298 (isolation #12) » Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:14 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?
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Post #301 (isolation #14) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 am
Postby Bellaphant »
Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.
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Post #304 (isolation #15) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:56 am
Postby Bellaphant »
Oh, I thought he was talking about you?
The post means that I liked Vander's Sus of you because it felt organic because I was not fully reading rangers posts by then. It means him Ans I are flowing the same, rather than me particularly liking it as Sus against you, if that makes sense
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Post #306 (isolation #16) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:38 am
Postby Bellaphant »
No night kills for a start, plus 2/7 feels good odds, better than the newbie queue, which is the only other place I play small games. Plus, I really like the idea of scum and town hunting being separate skills and being played out as separate
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Post #307 (isolation #17) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:40 am
Postby Bellaphant »
3/7, but we can get it wrong twice.
This bit 'When the number of Sinners and Saints among the Unjudged (alive) players is equal, a Judgement Day occurs, in which all Martyrs decide on a player to send to hell. If that player is a Saint, the Sinners win. If that player is a Sinner, the game moves to a hell phase.' feels scum sided but we'd have to fuck up a fair bit to get there.
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Post #346 (isolation #20) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:42 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
In post 310, BloodB0t wrote:
I think the setup is townsided because it has a history of 5 town wins and 1 mafia win. I wouldn't be able to tell by looking at the mechanics of it. That being said, I'm not sure what we gain by knowing it's townsided. Does that mean we shouldn't try as hard?
In post 299, Bellaphant wrote:
Bloodbot, struggling to read you too: can you throw a question or thought at me?
I don't have much to say, other than to ask for your thoughts behind:
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Post #347 (isolation #21) » Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:44 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
In post 327, Aisa wrote:
Anyway, I have put less effort into the game today than yesterday, gonna sheep my read from yesterday that Ranger is likely town. So the priority is to get this wagon off Ranger.
VOTE: BloodB0t who wants to wagon this with me? xx
I can case tomorrow.
Why not Oclaxian Empire, you might wonder? I like some of the points Vander has brought up for why they might be town, gut says BloodB0t is a bit scummier.
Kowahbunga also has ~24 hours to town it up or convince me that post of theirs I quoted is not scummy before I start thinking that wagoning them is fair play.
Still not sure on ranger and think Ox is probably town but I like this from Aisa. Can go back in the town pile. Big agree on kowah
In post 310, BloodB0t wrote:
I think the setup is townsided because it has a history of 5 town wins and 1 mafia win.
For instance, I look at this POV about it and the opinion that it's town sided and think this is much more likely a town POV that Bellaphant's POV about it. Because the more I think about it, Bella's issue with the game makes no sense from town pov. It seems like they're worried about the setup, but yet call it townsided. Wouldn't having the opinion of it being townsided also be a cause for confidence... If you are town?
At this point I really feel like Bella manufactured their townsided opinion. That and not being familiar with the setup, while also being able to act worried about the set up they apparently don't know enough about to know the player split of.
VOTE: Bella
Like, you've missed the point: the focus isn't the amount of scum, that's not what makes it town or scum sided to me, it's the set up: I've never played nightless, plus I've never played finding scum and town separately. It would've probably made it clearee to say I'm much more looking forward to tomorrow, as I prefer town hunting.
I don't think I've ever faked a town slip in my life. And If I had , I'd like to think that I did it a lot better than that, rather than just post a jumble of numbers.
It feels like whatever I said to answer the question, you would've scum read it.
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Post #388 (isolation #27) » Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:46 am
Postby Bellaphant »
Can we get a VC? Because ranger was the leading wagon on... Monday, and I'm not sure where we are.
Lim pool is in kowah, Dr and ...very maybe bloodbot/AV, but least fav options. I don't feel qualified to read ranger but after hms mutiny, these early stale day one wagons don't give me good vibes.
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Post #460 (isolation #30) » Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:12 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
Yes, five pure town votes means that everyone has to agree, which is a) not likely, because even my strong tr in aisa seems to be null/scum by at least two people, b) not really necessary as obv scum are going to want to be on the leasing wagon for 'cred', which helps us
I think the next stage of hell voting is going to be more straightforward but we should also have a plan(Ish) for that now.
I do wonder what will happen to those middle of the road reads (bot and av), where in general people don't seem to have as much of a 'take' on them as they do with 'controversial' reads like ox And and ranger.
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Post #468 (isolation #34) » Thu Mar 16, 2023 11:35 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
In post 466, Vanderscamp wrote:
The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.
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Post #551 (isolation #37) » Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:37 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
Even if ranger is open wolfing, we've already discussed that we are going to need at least one scum on to send someone to heaven, and aisa is my strongest tr, except for a few tin hat moments.
In post 568, Enchant wrote:
In long run it didn't matter it's all mafia ploy.
8 players
5 good
3 evil
And Aisa didn't vote for self.
So mafia helped.
Also, this makes one of(if not both) Aureal and Vander town confirmed.
*scratches head* How's that? Obviously I know I'm town, but from your POV what's stopping Vander and I from being scum and just the third one voting Aisa?
I guess I'd never seen it before? The reads from other people worked out in that depth seemed to have more scum than town utility. Especially in this game where we have to work out who's going to vote who If we end up at two two, etc. Can you talk me through your why a little bit?
In post 568, Enchant wrote:
In long run it didn't matter it's all mafia ploy.
8 players
5 good
3 evil
And Aisa didn't vote for self.
So mafia helped.
Also, this makes one of(if not both) Aureal and Vander town confirmed.
*scratches head* How's that? Obviously I know I'm town, but from your POV what's stopping Vander and I from being scum and just the third one voting Aisa?
I guess I'd never seen it before? The reads from other people worked out in that depth seemed to have more scum than town utility. Especially in this game where we have to work out who's going to vote who If we end up at two two, etc. Can you talk me through your why a little bit?
In post 570, Aureal wrote:
So anyway, Vander, what do you have for scumreads now? You obviously were scumreading Ranger- does Aisa being town affect that? She was most interested in defending Ranger, do you think she was wrong? And who else would you see as being scum with Ranger since it seemed like you were most wary of Aisa? You've been feeling most everyone else is somewhat towny, but there's got to be two more scum in there.
Yeah I mean it seems even more likely now that Aisa was wrong, I don't understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.
I'm not super confident in other scum, very likely not OE/Enchant.
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Post #588 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:29 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
@aureal, thats not what I said? I said it felt scummy because scum need to know more clearly with this mech who would vote who when, etc, Ans that's what it seemed a bit like.
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Post #589 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:30 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
@aureal, thats not what I said? I said it felt scummy because scum need to know more clearly with this mech who would vote who when, etc, Ans that's what it seemed a bit like.
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Post #590 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:31 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
@vander it's the why I feel is missing? Maybe I'm tired but it feels like conclusions, not procees. This in particular ' understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.'
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Post #596 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:37 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
@aureal, aisa had been consistent about one of her trs being wrong, yeah. I'd been good with just auto-voting ranger or Dr drew but I haven't liked anything from enchant and they normally town it up, especially Inna game this mech heavy.
I don't know how I feel about what ranger said just then about aisa.
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Post #597 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:38 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
For clarity, my read on Dr drew seems to flip every post they make: I didn't like their poarinf at all a few pages ago but liked their recent one. I don't know what that means.
Im pretty sure ranger/ox-enchant isn't scum/scum, can I get a sense check on that?
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Post #598 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:38 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
For clarity, my read on Dr drew seems to flip every post they make: I didn't like their poarinf at all a few pages ago but liked their recent one. I don't know what that means.
Im pretty sure ranger/ox-enchant isn't scum/scum, can I get a sense check on that?
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Post #610 (isolation #50) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 2:12 am
Postby Bellaphant »
@vanders, who do you think scum would be likely to/want to mis-lim if "ranger and I (you) are both town" ?
@aureal, I'm pretty good at reading enchant! I'm surprised you've never seen him town it up, he often becomes obv! town, often by solving/mech, or obv scum by lack of engagement/effort.
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Post #618 (isolation #54) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:46 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
Right, that's why I'm asking: I'm confused about what you are saying in the first place. Your follow up didn't really clarify, or I'm just not following?
In post 590, Bellaphant wrote:
@vander it's the why I feel is missing? Maybe I'm tired but it feels like conclusions, not procees. This in particular ' understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.'
In a world where Ranger and I are both town, if scum sent me to heaven yesterday and then get a miskill on a non-Ranger player today, they can probably just assume I will send Ranger straight to hell, right?
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Post #620 (isolation #56) » Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:49 pm
Postby Bellaphant »
Like, I thought I understood that you think ranger is scum, so If you were in heaven and someone got Mis limned, and ranger was scum, then... After that you'd vote ranger from heaven, If that was the end game? But then I get lost, and that already sounds fairly convoluted