Micro 1089: the coalition, again [game over]

[fireisredsir]

tempted to vote brass in response to that bc no it really wasn't, but i guess scum's first priority here probably isn't going to be antagonizing everyone

[fireisredsir]

i hope it's hellbooks and she wins

[fireisredsir]

@hellbooks whats the alignment read on posting about dreams that position the dreamer as mafia

[fireisredsir]

i also had a dream where i was going to get married with a guy i didn't actually like. isis was in that one, and was concerned about this. no mafia in that dream tho

that does sound like isis

[fireisredsir]

i only just realized we're fun car + tris

[fireisredsir]

Brass makes her day 2 play way too strange. She only needs to protect her slot in that scenario. She played to seize game control.

can you elaborate on what makes you think this bc "seize game control" is not really the impression i had of her day 2 play

[fireisredsir]

good morning

[fireisredsir]

Her play day 2 was guaranteed to significantly change the trajectory of day 2 and it did. I think she may have wanted to try for Shea and miss and land leading a different miss but she was definitely trying to be in a position where she was a leading vote on a wagon instead of offwagon while tris died
Idk what game you played

yea uh i just didn't really get this at all i would characterize her play as not really doing much of anything active or pushing the thread in any direction at all

[fireisredsir]

i just looked at her iso again and i don't understand how you could see it any differently tbh

[fireisredsir]

she doesn't take thread control at all she just says the tris wagon is bad and gives reason to townread and that she wants to look into shea/sheep and then never really does

she doesn't vote or push anything for a long time or really do much to alter the gamestate

eventually once things have turned onto her she votes sheep but still doesn't really do a lot presumably mostly bc she's busy irl

can you like point out posts where you think she's seizing thread control?

[fireisredsir]

Is your argument she pushed sheas slot from the sidelines

like, yes

where is this shea push

[fireisredsir]

voting is a significant part of thread control but so is making pushes and convincing people to follow you and agree with your worldview which i don't think she did very much of either

[fireisredsir]

ari wanted to vote me but earlier in the game said bulge was outed scum

shea apparently thought i was maybe a skitter partner but also wanted to vote tris i think

[fireisredsir]

imo if you're town you probably had a disproportionate perception of skitter's thread influence and control since she was your strong townread and so you were likely to pay more attention to what she was saying

if you don't want to back up that she played to seize thread control then ok you don't have to i guess but i would recommend not making gamestate reads off that opinion then, since me and tris disagree with it and we can't both be scum

[fireisredsir]

So if I do what I want to do I'm also copying the player the scumteam wanted to kill the most eh

i think that if you want to justify voting someone with a deadsheep you could probably do it for anyone besides maybe hellbooks

[fireisredsir]

bet

[fireisredsir]

thats like the lowest level possible analysis

why wouldn't they be

[fireisredsir]

Because it narrows the pool of suspicion. I don't care how high analysis you assign things but it's still analysis you seem to not be doing at all because it's below you or something

thats not what i meant. it sounded like you were saying that you thought scum had to be on the wagon and i think there's no reason to believe that's the case

with one scum left they're mostly just going to be playing as if they're a town, and would likely follow whatever their progression allowed. the main alternative was me, and im town, so there's no reason they need to be on the wagon or not on the wagon. they can basically just do whatever they want

[fireisredsir]

what's causing the read difficulty? do you have thoughts that are conflicting about her or do you have no thoughts at all on her alignment?

[fireisredsir]

no one ruminated on it at all

i ruminated on it a lot actually just not out loud

[fireisredsir]

i have zero opinions sorry to break expectations

[fireisredsir]

i guess that's not true i have a few opinions

[fireisredsir]

i have a distinct memory of being in grade 4 and there was a writing assignment that i had forgotten about, and i did it right before school, really quickly and poorly. i was a not bad student in elementary school i think, and my teacher liked my writing, but because of that i was too embarrassed to submit something that i knew was bad. so when it was time to turn in our homework, i pretended i didn't do it at all

i feel the same way now about my opinions in this game

i don't actually have zero of them im just ashamed at the low quality of them so i'd rather leave them unsubmitted

[fireisredsir]

ill try to find better ones later

[fireisredsir]

I want to hear your thoughts just for the beauty of them even if they're bad and not wincon advancing

this is the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me

[fireisredsir]

i think brass isn't really trying to solve the game and bulge wasn't either and 2 for 2 makes me really very much want to yeet the slot even though a voice in the back of my head saying that usually this isn't the answer and me finding his process frustrating doesn't mean it isn't town

i think i just don't really want to see hellbooks as being possible scum. i don't really think it makes sense to me for her to be but i don't think my reasons for townreading her are very good. im probably willing to just let that ride and trust though

i think tris still kinda fits as scum and i guess just cause she's present and around i don't really feel like voting her as much which is pretty bad of me. it's probably her i guess because it usually is when there's this choice between the person who is scummy on their face and also isn't really around to talk vs the person that id feel a little bad about voting for

i haven't really thought heavily about isis alignment i just have kinda hoped that if we townspewed her she'd get nightkilled next (if there is a next [adding this clause solely for whoever called someone out for not considering that the day could end today]) and then we wouldn't have to sort there (much better than the brassherald approach of limming her imo) but maybe i shouldn't have said that and kept her townspewed. for like 70% of the game i read every post she made as if it came from scum alignment and then for like the last 30% of the game ive read the posts as coming from town alignment and im not really sure why it switched in my brain and i haven't really tried to investigate that

[fireisredsir]

i also kinda thought once i saw sheeps flip that y'all would just turn back and want to yeet me and i was kinds okay with that but now it seems like nobody really wants to so im left here like oh okay i guess i have to actually figure out who is scum now instead of letting you all deal with it in elo

[fireisredsir]

yea i don't believe that at all i don't think there was ever a good opportunity for her to bus tris

[fireisredsir]

btw i was on an MU game that was draining like 150% of my mafia energy over the last few weeks and that just ended so i can like try to do things here now

but i also just want to shut brain off

[fireisredsir]

there's no such thing as a guilt free hammer unfortunately

[fireisredsir]

lack of free will is an ironically freeing concept

[fireisredsir]

[fireisredsir]

i think it was a bocchi meme but idk

[fireisredsir]

i think we can win this game

[fireisredsir]

should we just elim brassherald now so we don't all get snowed by poppy

[fireisredsir]

i never felt like that no

[fireisredsir]

sometimes i wondered if it was wrong about sheep tho bc the play really seemed to fit uncannily well to me

[fireisredsir]

i guess we wait

[fireisredsir]

a little disappointed nobody made a poppy alt to replace in with tbh

[fireisredsir]

no! but 170 pages is a lot for a micro

most of them are chatting sorry lol

i think the like main important game event places to look into if you want to backread would be:
- skitter's iso
- pages ~96 to ~102, which is where the coalition got solidified
- how skitter + others played d1 elimination phase (start of it is ~107 to ~116, end of it is ~130 to ~140)
- how sheep got elimmed in like ~153 to ~158

[fireisredsir]

i intentionally extended the range of one of those lists of pages so that included the house of leaves post

[fireisredsir]

are these wuthering heights spoilers im not reading this post

[fireisredsir]

[fireisredsir]

Maybe me irl lol

same

[fireisredsir]

enjoyment: 5.9 (4.4+/5)
catfit: 0.8
unfamiliarity: 1.0

[fireisredsir]

i think there's a few gamestate read things that make me think it could be tris

1) tris was universal townread pretty quickly (except for by shea), and skitter didn't seem too concerned about pushing herself into the coalition early on (and was pretty content being left out). either she knew we weren't getting a coal anytime soon, or she was comfortable with her partner's position

2) at end of coalition phase skitter wasn't really making any sort of active push to do anything or decide on a coalition, while her and tris (and shea) were most townread and were core to almost every proposed coal. i guess she could have played like this with anyone, so maybe this isn't much of a point in favor of tris being scum. arguably though she could have been trying to stall on completion because she wasn't happy with having 2 scum in. im not sure if i believe this

3) when we went to elim someone, the thread mostly turned on tris. skitter's play in response i think was kinda weird, and felt like she was avoiding committing to pushing anywhere in particular. she was townreading tris and was vocal about that but didn't seem to want to take action to stop her from being limmed (with her main suspicion being sheep). i thought this mostly made sense as either a) wanting to let town push tris while she maintains her bus on sheep for the next day, or b) trying to make it look like she's white knighting town tris and getting flipped herself

individually i still think she's kinda towny. but the lack of original scumhunting is probably the most concerning. i think she doesn't have a lot of trouble townreading people who are town as scum, but may have more trouble coming up with good scumreads. and she's focused a lot more on the former

for reasons to townread her, she's vibing decently well, there's been places that have felt uninformed, and part of me kinda just believes her when she says things lol

[fireisredsir]

i think my issue with some of my points is that i don't think skitter really would want to play to get scumread? it just doesn't seem like her style. and it's awkward if tris ever does get limmed (which is possible with strong/loud players in the coalition) because it looks bad for skitter

so it does seem reasonable that what she said about how she would have bussed tris is true. that is probably the best path in general for a scum skitter. it's also possible that she was planning to but the thread turned on tris before she had a chance to (she was v/la at the time) and she didn't want to just pile on afterwards since that's not much cred, so she had to try to be flexible and pivot to a different approach?

or it just isn't tris

[fireisredsir]

@fire was there anyone else who could be scum who was widely townread early?

your points don't seem to be very Occam's razor-y

hellbooks was kinda townread i guess and then relatively happily allowed herself to be shuffled onto the fun trolley. i guess maybe there's a world where skitter at some point was like "okay your majesty hellbooks, my being content to be left out is getting me townread so let's swap places". it's probably more possible than id like to believe

but yeah my tris points are the alternative to occam's razor which is your slot lol

[fireisredsir]

town:

[ari hellbooks isis shea me]

scum:

[sheep tris skitter brassherald]


hm this doesn't seem right

this shakes out to be one scum in the top group and one in the bottom group at least 8 times out of 10 imo

currently stubbornly moving forward with flipping skitter into sheep into tris into brassherald and hoping we're in the 2/10 surely this can't go wrong

[fireisredsir]

What if fire can put out good gamestate read content cause that's like the easiest kind to make as scum

i can bc my only goal here as scum is to look towny enough to not get limmed today so i can surprise nk hellbooks tonight bc she's unpocketable and would probably vote me in elo bc it just feels right, and me looking towny here and making gamestate reads is pretty easy

however you should townread me for it anyway because in this game im town

[fireisredsir]

im not really sure what else skitter would be able to do (given the time she had) if scum with brass

[fireisredsir]

like imagine for a moment that you are skitter and you roll scum in coalition and your partner isn't really playing the game

what do you even do

in a normal setup you can just bus them but you can't really do that here

nobody is gonna put him in the coalition so it has to be you

but then once that succeeds either you have to yeet 3 towny town people yourself or you die and hope your afk partner can carry

it would feel a little hopeless and would probably be frustrating knowing that being towny enough to get past step 1 also puts you on the chopping block

and you don't really have the time to be in thread enough to overcome the volume of all these chatty people to become top 2 consensus town

probably the route is to try to set up as many false trail associatives as you can, knowing that you likely die eventually?

idk its hard to imagine that much of anything she did would have an effect on things, she'd mostly be relying on town talking themselves out of the easy answer. which tbh looks kinda like a match for how she played the game

[fireisredsir]

read through pages 1-60 of the coal forming stage and have a few thoughts based on that

i haven't looked at the end of the coal phase or the post-coal phase (we invented renewable energy sources) yet but i expect that may have some interesting bits as well obviously. i have stronger memories of those tho

1) i think ari is really unlikely scum. i don't think she has much reason to come in and side with partner ari against shea there, she knows how he'll respond to that. if anything she would want to get on shea's side and push herself in while pushing ari out

2) i think shea is pretty unlikely to be scum?the way she handled shea vs ari feels like it's a tvt to me. it's slightly more likely than ari i think, but i don't really see it. the way he responded to skitter coming in and just a lot of stuff he's done this game feel pretty distinctly town shea to me

3) if it's bulge/brassherald, which i think it pretty easily could be, then i think skitter probably just knew that she would likely be able to make her way into the coal eventually and could just push her partner + some townies out of the way, and continually shade people to keep herself as one of the few consensus towns. i actually think this is probably the best strategy from her position. she kept trying to maintain scumreads on me/sheep/bulge/brooks/isis/shea. so basically everyone except tris/ari lol. and if she succeeds in undermining the perception of at least 4 of those being town (not that hard to do) then she makes it in. she also never really pushed him until she was solidly in the coal, and focused on her scumreads of me/shea and brooks and isis at times

4) i think similarly it could be sheep? his handling of her is slightly awkward and i think that she started with a default "i don't townread sheep why does everyone townread sheep" which then pivoted into more firmly pushing him out once she got some townreads. probably post-coal has more insights here

5) based on just coal forming and interactions i still think it very easily could be tris. i don't think thats my first pick though. it just would mean that skitter would be trying to boost the perception of tris being threadspewed town, rather than specifically playing for 1 in 1 out

6) isis felt townier to me on reread. i think the strangest part was where it felt like she was inserting herself into skitter's pocket when skitter didn't really ever take much action to initiate that. and isis said that skitter was scumreading her before skitter really pivoted into that (she originally townread isis) which felt oddly prophetic. it would be a slightly bold approach i guess to just openly hard townread and proxy vote your partner but also it's probably a really good approach so she might go for it

7) idk i just don't really think it's hellbooks lmao i don't have a good reason. i guess it's plausible that she would be leaning into the setting herself up as opposing skitter but not very loudly/convincingly and accepting that she is going to be the one left out. so strategically it actually fits pretty well. maybe im snowed

rereading this, and right now independent of my overall reads on the slots, im at 3 > 7 > 5 > 6 as far as how believable these feel to me as a skitter game strategy

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler:

maybe 6 over 5 actually but im trying to townspew isis still

[fireisredsir]

i might be talking myself out of thinking it's tris

[fireisredsir]

putting too much weight into trying to predict what flipped scum were doing was an issue i had trying to solve the MU game tho so maybe i should not do that

[fireisredsir]

of course it has to be done to some extent i just do it too much sometimes

scum usually think/plan/strategize less than i expect them to

[fireisredsir]

i reread the bulge iso and i think thats probably just scum

[fireisredsir]

they made the banner swap ahh

im not sure i like this

[fireisredsir]

because if infinity is scum then there has to be a significant chance that leads to a scenario where isis votes fire in ELO
so why is tris not worried about that, well maybe she's thinking like "well i'll be dead so that loss would be on you"

i also said it because its true thaf we are going to win the game

i am actually curious for more of a follow up to this tris bc i think its kind of a good point

what makes you think we're going to win

[fireisredsir]

and then i explained the part about why i thought isis might vote brass d2.

i forgot you said this my bad, that does make more sense

[fireisredsir]

maybe tris is confident that town wins the game bc she knows she's getting limmed

[fireisredsir]

well yeah thats what i mean

if she's scum then she knows it's very likely true that town will win

i think it's either tris or you but im sort of losing confidence on that but also not really sure im willing to go elsewhere

i think your approach of coming in and being like "no these people are town" is at least an odd approach as scum and it's sort of making me doubt

but i guess you'd need to make allies you can't really just attack the rest of the poe and hope people don't see that as scum pushing for miselims

[fireisredsir]

why is isis town

i agree that she's made a lot of what feel like scum isis posts and i scumread her for most of the game

i think the reason that feels the most solid to me is the sum of how her and skitter played around each other

actually im typing this out and thinking about it and i think that "skitter scumread isis and push her out of coal, while isis hard townreads skitter and push her into coal" is like a pretty good approach to the game

i dunno

everything i type here feels like im trying to convince mmyself more than anything and thats never a good sign so im gonna reread a little

[fireisredsir]

this game was so much easier when we were townspewing isis and i could just vote her tomorrow if she didn't get nightkilled but now its too late

[fireisredsir]

reading back is making me feel bad for pushing sheep through sorry sheep

he probably thinks im scum im not tho

[fireisredsir]

it's ok the dream has been dead for a while now i think

[fireisredsir]

if hellbooks gets nightkilled then

Spoiler: spoiler for another dimension's game

at least the library town wins

[fireisredsir]

rereading skitter iso and her starting out by strong townreading isis while isis says she wants to leave skitter out bc she's hard for her to read

but then thread scumreads isis overall significantly more than skitter, with skitter stocks gradually rising

gradually transitioning into skitter softening her tr, and then isis hard defending and townreading skitter, and then eventually skitter outright scumreading isis

and then isis hammering the losing coalition

sure is making me concerned a little

i guess i will take this thought more seriously ughhh

[fireisredsir]

HEAL: isis

The more I investigate the insides of my bowels the more I am kinda sus of Isis.

no

you'd think that skitter would know that responding to shea here with just "no" would have the opposite effect but maybe not

[fireisredsir]

i have attempted the "i have doubts on this person (who by the way has been sitting on a scum of me all game) but a lot of people think she's town so let's try to just theadspew her as town and hope she gets nightkilled and then if she doesn't we can lim her in elo" strategy before btw

any guesses on how successful that was

[fireisredsir]

sitting on a scumread*

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: spoiler for a past game

i got limmed prior to elo and she was scum who won in f3

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: spoiler for my opinion on the first 4 chapters of wuthering heights

it's pretty good so far. i am compelled

[fireisredsir]

is f3 a common term for 3p ELO these days
or is this yet another one of those things endemic only to the linguistic vortex of this game

i almost always say 3p but for some reason i thought f3 was more commonly used and i always think after the fact "oops maybe i should have said f3" and the one time i try to branch out.......

[fireisredsir]

i liked that bit, and also, mostly just from an appreciation of imagery,

Spoiler: the part where

he was surrounded by the glare of white letters in the dark and the air swarmed with Catherines

[fireisredsir]

it was a big "oh, shit's about to get real" moment

[fireisredsir]

at least one of those is faking believing a post from hellbooks of all people imo

eh?

that was referring to ari and isis taking what felt to me like an obvious joke from hellbooks seriously

seemed like someone was trying to look uninformed

[fireisredsir]

rereading to see how the skit lim developed was next on my list bc i still haven't done that yet

[fireisredsir]

part of me wants to leap of faith believe that it's never really the person who i think looks like obvscum but that's hard to do

i guess it's easier since i think infinity has looked towny but still, 2 out of 3 being really scummy looking to me is hard to get over

[fireisredsir]

tbh the way isis is like "yeah hmm skitt might not be town" so soon after the coal is making me doubt

not only this but she's defending tris when people seeming to be coming to "tris or skitt is scum"

i have 10 minutes before my computer blocks come on aah i'll skip ahead

she was mostly defending tris in a tris vs sheep dichotomy tho, not as much in a tris vs skitter one

she was saying "hey no we should really lim obvious scummy slot sheep, let's not look for deepwolves yet...." which like

is kinda. helpful to the deepwolf skitter

but i do get what you're saying that probably with more foresight she could have realized that defending tris could result in things tilting towards skitter. it's possible she'd choose to take that route anyway but yeah i dunno

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: fire

maybe a terrible idea but this is who i think is mostly likely to be scum atp

oh

when did that happen?

[fireisredsir]

i forgot about that

ofc it happened again

[fireisredsir]

im glad you're embracing the scumclaiming culture of micro 1089 tho

[fireisredsir]

its been 10 minutes so maybe you're not here anymore but if you're still around at some point can you like walk through your thought process that led to those two votes

[fireisredsir]

o wait i think that was a hammer

i hope it's a correct one then

[fireisredsir]

bad kill i was like 90% voting isis here lmao

[fireisredsir]

2 days left

probably prefer a tris yeet

partly bc i don't think i care about skitter's read there since it's a gamestate one based on suspicion of the sheepshea team which i dont really agree on

it's a possible world where that's just a town skitter misreading tris. there are notes of the stubbornness there

it's also possible it's a scum skitter white knighting tris. i guess an argument for this would be that she isn't really pushing much for eliminating the people she thinks are scum so she's kinda doing the willy wonka "nooo don't elim trissss" thing where she doesn't actually really care that much

i might be convinced by that argument actually idk

mm ok this doesn't look great

why? thats the point where i start leaning towards skitter

[fireisredsir]

i do think 3291 reads a bit like "if y'all are so undecided why did you have to decide on my scumbuddy"

this is ignoring the context of the posts right before where i say i prefer skitter

tbh the main reason i am hesitating to vote skitter is bc i pushed for her lim last game cause i thought her posting wasn't up to her town standard and then she ended up being just town who was busy

that doesn't mean she can't be scum who is also just busy here but idk some aspects do feel similar

i probably still would vote her in the end but i am slightly less eager to

[fireisredsir]

it feels like a hedging post scum would make when they're not sure whether or not they have to bus

i don't know why i would be unsure whether i have to bus or not there

the game has been very slow and undecided its not like there's any pressure

i would have had plenty of room to decide on a path forward, and i have learned that sitting on the fence and not giving a solid opinion on a scumbuddy is like the worst thing you can do, so i avoid doing it

[fireisredsir]

like "why did you have to decide on my scumbuddy" applies maybe even more so if you realized you had to bus

i guess maybe i don't understand what you mean by that

[fireisredsir]

tbh i do think hellbooks makes that kill more often than infinity does

[fireisredsir]

like "why did you have to decide on my scumbuddy" applies maybe even more so if you realized you had to bus

i guess maybe i don't understand what you mean by that

hm it's a bit more nuanced than i thought

does anyone have any strong reasons that they prefer one over the other or are we all just kinda in undecided limbo

feels like you are trying to pull people out of that limbo. but you don't have a strong opinion of which direction to go in yourself. idk it feels weird. it feels like the emotion of someone who is watching their scumbuddy get run up by people who are like "ehh idk kinda prefer this" and you are frustrated by that

i think given thread context tho

which is me ari shea all expressing a preference for skitter

i feel like there's no way that the world you're seeing here ever happens? the only direction this would pull people out of limbo is in the direction of skitter

what i was actually doing was trying to tease out possible partner relations. i felt pretty strongly that at least one of tris/skitter was scum. if they were both scum, then it made sense that everyone was in limbo, bc everyone else voting them was uninformed town. if one of them was scum, then scum is under pressure and might try to take a stand to defend whoever is their partner. i wanted to see what people like sheep/brass would do. which. sheep preferred tris lim. brass then put tris on e-1. i found both of those kinda scummy

actually there is a good point in here somewhere which i probably shouldn't make for you but whatever. i think if i were scum making that post, i would be doing it for the sake of trying to get people (sheep, brass, etc) to express a preference and potentially spew them as partnered with skitter. so basically the same thing i did as town but for nefarious purposes

which yea idk i guess i might have done that there. but i don't think i would put myself in that on the fence position in the first place and would have taken a stronger stance

[fireisredsir]

fwiw i don't ever enter this 3p as scum, with 0 people that i have pocketed or am capable of pocketing

i plan things better than that

[fireisredsir]

id be more likely to keep people like isis/sheep around (and play more to the goals of pocketing them)

hellbooks is an unpredictable enigma and is immune to any tricks id usually pull. i think a consistent pattern in all of my scumgames is not liking to have unpredictable people in endgame

[fireisredsir]

give me the reverse reverse psychology towncred for saying i wouldn't

[fireisredsir]

you might be idk

but like i think with isis and sheep if i talk to them for long enough they won't want to kill me anymore

it's more like im confident that there's something i can push in the direction of winning the game and maybe it's a boulder up a mountain but at least i know what direction im going

i don't think that works on you. the things that you townread and scumread are mysterious to me, so it would be playing kinda blind and hoping i luckily hit onto one of those key moments or whatever

[fireisredsir]

hellbooks is super limmable you just would have to ask me why i townread her. i gave you the instructions already smh

[fireisredsir]

help im being pocketed

[fireisredsir]

i tried to read hellbooks iso but i kept just laughing at the jokes instead of being able to read for alignment

(this is a pocket attempt)

[fireisredsir]

fire idk. like maybe you could've pocketed isis but isis has been a ball of chaotic energy this whole game. i felt like you moving towards isis at the same time as me could've been trying to pocket me, but it does seem like a bad strategy to try to pocket the player you've never played with before and just replaced in. nevertheless i did read an "oh whoa what" into 4453

like if you're town here we're confbiasing already and arguing with us probably makes us more entrenched in our opinions. especially when you're like "i would never do this as scum" i think shea is probably right that that is scummy. what would convince us is a good narrative of why hellbooks does what she does as scum this game. and i know that's difficult that's why i'm leaning towards you

there was definitely an "oh whoa what" bc it felt suddenly like you were positioning rather than expressing your natural reads. and id read pretty much everything else you'd done as towny so it was surprising to me, bc it didn't feel like it made sense with the rest of the mindset that i'd seen you expressing. it was jarring, and felt like it broke me out a bit of the worldview i had been in, but also in a way that made me still want to see you as town because it seemed like an unnecessary move if you were scum. but it's possible your read on the gamestate was different than mine

re: hellbooks i don't have one

[fireisredsir]

which post? your vote on me?

[fireisredsir]

Spoiler: from another game

Subject: Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

when I say weak i don't mean like overall weak

just weaker in the sense that I feel their scum games are not as strong as their town games and there is readable disparity

I don't actually know if this applies to cookie

catch me as scum and you can put me in this category

i love this post btw, cheeky af

[fireisredsir]

yes

i didn't say i found it scummy, i was saying i found it confusing and landed on thinking it didn't make sense coming from scum

[fireisredsir]

in the moment it did definitely make me doubt my growing townlean and i feel like that's kinda clear from the way i was posting so idk why you don't believe it

[fireisredsir]

killing isis is obviously disadvantageous for scum infinity thats for sure
even if the switch from isis -> fire at end of yday is supposed to represent some strategy shift into setting up a fire f3 lim

do you think it's me, then?

[fireisredsir]

i guess i'm wondering what you were expecting from town!me there who had 3 minutes to decide on who to vote. maybe you didn't understand the urgency at the time or the sliding scale reads thing but like it's a vote how scummy can it be

yea i didn't get the impression from any of your earlier posts that i would be near the bottom of your reads, so that was the main confusing bit

[fireisredsir]

objectively i think you're right that a vote on tris is probably something that should be found more scummy by me in that situation. because rationally i think that + a hellbooks nk + continuing to convince me it could be isis (or just letting isis vote me) is a really clean and smooth path to you winning the game

however i guess i do have at least a little bit of omgus instinct and it does shake me out of my worldview a little bit when someone suddenly suspects me when i didn't think they did

[fireisredsir]

i think scum is a lot more likely to be jarred that they are my biggest scumread suddenly than town is

it feels like a lot of your points are based on thinking that i struggle to avoid putting honest emotions into my posts when im scum. ik you said you don't like the self-meta but i don't think that's something i've ever struggled with

and anyway im just not really sure why you think this. i felt like as town i was solving with you and we were both starting to think it could be isis and i was starting to believe that it was, and then it felt like i had the rug pulled out and actually you're suspecting me. and then i had to figure out if that was something coming from scum or if i just had been heavily misreading the vibe of the situation (which is always a very jarring feeling for me when that happens)

[fireisredsir]

if i had to give a weight to the importance of things in my mind to figure out it would be like
3/10 - "The Nightkill"
3/10 - infinity switching from isis to fire
2/10 - skitter partner equity
2/10 - everything else

look at my awesome recency bias

at this point i think that both of the first two point more towards infinity town than scum

[fireisredsir]

i mean yeah i guess but it seems like an unusual thing to struggle with. im a chat maf player, real timing and reactions is like the thing im best at usually

i guess im guilty of the same type of thing where i look at a post and it's easy to imagine that scum was honestly feeling something that made them post in that way but i don't think i've ever been right about those reads

[fireisredsir]

re: hellbooks i don't have one

i do actually have one im just struggling to get myself to believe that it could be right

i can go into it later though

[fireisredsir]

fire do you think skitt was trying to stay alive? it feels weird to me to have her rallying for a wagon on sheep and meanwhile her partner is just sitting there bussing. idk

im not sure why that would be weird

i do think she was trying to stay alive as best as she could given the time she had

if her partner decided to bus, then it's still good for skitter to force a town flip before she goes down, because then her partner still gets the cred for bussing and also there's been another townflip. there's not really any downside to that and in fact i think that's like exactly what scum should do a lot of the time -- the one who is going down first should powerwolf as hard as they can

if her partner decided not to bus, then there's probably more incentive for skitter to set herself up to last longer, because either her partner is hoping to powerwolf together and win in 5p, or hoping to look uninformed (?) or something idk. i think that's generally the less optimal play but also scum don't always plan ahead or think for endgame sometimes they just take the town lims that are in front of them

[fireisredsir]

not me trying to preemptively snatch away fire's scumbooks theory
and missing terribly, i presume

i couldn't actually remember what your vote was doing at the time but i don't think it's like super relevant

i think both paths are possible for scum to take and i am not sure why it would be clearing (or condemning) for anyone

[fireisredsir]

basically where im at rn is that im not reading a ton into skitter lim day bc the two people that i thought most likely to be scum off that were tris and sheep and so it feels like exceptionally silly to just keep reaching further into that bucket and hoping that it's finally right

i think the correct answer is that skitter played well (bc she is good at scum!) to set things up so that it seemed like people who are town were her partners as she was going down

and so im more interested rn in coalition forming and other portions of the game

[fireisredsir]

anyway the real question is

Does anyone alive really believe scum was off the wagon yesterday?

[fireisredsir]

how do you tell the difference between towny post and scum whos busting out all the chops

aka how do you tell the difference between scummy post and town whose busting out none of the chops

if you're town kinda funny that this is what you have to decide between lol (although infinity has busted a lot of chops regardless of alignment and i respect that)

[fireisredsir]

and i think it's like almost always correct to vote the former in that situation and i think town you also probably feels that way which is why id nk you

[fireisredsir]

it would be pretty fitting for you to win as scum and i am a sucker for a good story

[fireisredsir]

i'll leave it as an optional task for you to convince me that you could win as scum in an isis/infinity/fire F3 but please know that this is extremely optional and if you wanted to get started with the blasting i'd hand you a stack of bullets and guns and say take one pass it down

im definitely not eager to rush into the blasting and if anything id rather you be the first with the gun

i think id be more likely to win that f3 than this one but also i think i would have played like exceptionally different for the past two phases to the point where that wouldn't even be something i'd be deciding between

like the sheep/tris lims were always on the table and so i had a lot of time to figure out what i wanted to end the game with

[fireisredsir]

probably most likely is that i try to force brass out earlier and then tris and leave it up to a 1v1 between me and sheep, or potentially get sheep on my side

[fireisredsir]

i guess actually i did kind of try to force brass out at first and nobody listened so like. yeah. maybe i didn't play so differently. but idk i still think it'd look different

[fireisredsir]

is that the only scenario under which you'll do it

(that being if infinity wants you to, not the being mad part. i won't be mad at anyone regardless of what happens)

[fireisredsir]

(that being if infinity wants you to, not the being mad part. i won't be mad at anyone regardless of what happens)

exception granted for myself, there's like a decent chance of being upset with myself

but ill try not to do that as well

[fireisredsir]

skitt was more eager to put books in the coal than fire

skitt was more eager to put books in the fire than coal

there that makes more sense

can you quote where you see this

[fireisredsir]

(assuming there was a point being made there outside of the joke which yes was good)

[fireisredsir]

i think for the most part skitter followed a pretty parallel trajectory with hellbooks as she did on isis (and was part of why i started to get suspicious of isis last day phase)

where she started out townreading her and being okay with being pushed out herself while hellbooks was consensus town, but then once the early vibes wore off and people started suspecting hellbooks, skitter started losing her townread, and then eventually when skitter was consensus town she wasn't ever considering any coalitions that had hellbooks in them (that i remember)

[fireisredsir]

ok but she also had 1925 and 2063 which are waffling on putting me in, and there was a lot more push to put me in than hellbooks

like by that same logic she was way more likely to need to pivot away from me (or put me in and then bus me. i feel obligated to point out that this would probably be her strategy if scum with me there. but still)

i don't think anyone besides tris was pushing for hellbooks in (including hellbooks), and tris wasn't pushing very loudly

[fireisredsir]

or put me in and then bus me. i feel obligated to point out that this would probably be her strategy if scum with me there.

it's funny, for a bit she was like "shea can you vote fire tomorrow if he's in the coal and it fails" and i reconsidered my stance for a bit

maybe i have too simplistic of a view of scumplay but good scum players usually say to bus less

imo, bus less, but if you are going to bus then make sure you bus hard enough that you get credit for it

the previous two don corleone winners (petapan and datisi) were both somewhat infamous for bussing a lot so i don't think they would say to bus less

[fireisredsir]

sorry to self meta again but i can't resist, this one isn't for alignment its just fun for me to think about

but personally i think if i rolled scum with skitter my immediate thought would be to go for trying to get both of us in the coalition to set us up to hard 1v1 starting on d2, ideally limming d3, after we yeeted a townie or two. and then whoever survives the 1v1 has the fun car + whoever is left in the coal to yeet and probably has enough thread control to do it

the issue with bussing a strong partner on d1 or d2 is that if you get enough cred for it to be useful, then there starts to be questions about why you haven't gotten nightkilled yet. so start the bus on d2, but let town kill each other, and then finish it on d3, and there's only one nk left to survive

[fireisredsir]

so i guess actually i agree with your instinct that she wouldn't want to bus me right after putting me in

and maybe she actually wouldn't want to do that to bulge either and ari was right about that

[fireisredsir]

skitt also stops really pushing fire after the coal goes through. thing is, she was away for a bit, then she starts to receive pressure, so no matter fire's alignment it's maybe best to step away from a push like that if she thinks it won't catch.

the problem is, i don't get why she kept pushing for town!fire to be left out of the coal to begin with? like there's false associative wine or whatever, but it's not like pushing fire still gets on shea's good side around 2063, and it's not like she was using her read on fire to get townreads or whatever.

but anyway yea idk why she did most of her stuff near the end of coalition forming phase either lol. i guess she just felt confident in her position in the coalition and wanted to leave false trails + look towny for being unwilling to push through a winning coal

and tbh it worked because it did make me heavily suspect people who were in the coalition with her. it also got her a townread from shea (which didn't survive, but it did get him to push tris first instead of her)

so yeah i guess that's why

[fireisredsir]

full disclosure i am starting to think it's hellbooks but part of me is also not sure if it's the same feeling i got when i started to think it was sheep and when i started to think it was isis

[fireisredsir]

it's actually pretty tragic for scum hellbooks that isis got un-townspewed because before that happened the kill wouldn't have been unusual at all and now suddenly it's enough to make people hmm and wonder if this is a setup for the infinity/fire 1v1 that was pretty telegraphed

[fireisredsir]

and tbh it worked because it did make me heavily suspect people who were in the coalition with her.

why? wouldn't she want to leave her scumbuddy out?

exactly yeah, she looked like she wasn't happy/content with the direction the thread was going at the time that we were coalescing. she spent a long time waffling around on people on the borderline, and there were a lot of winning coalitions that she could have pushed through and she kept not doing that. if she could have easily just committed to one of me/sheep and pushed it through with tris/ari/shea/skitter while still having 1 in 1 out, then it was strange to me that she didn't do that, which led to me wondering why

[fireisredsir]

i don't think much of anything is tragic for scum!hellbooks here given that i am likely to vote you and win her the game

if you do get to a point where you are going to vote me i think i would prefer if you let me vote first, and i can decide which way i'm leaning. if you're town. if you're scum then you can go ahead and vote lol

it's pretty rare for me to want this given that usually i am content with letting other people make decisions but i think that if hellbooks is scum then she pretty much always wins if she just stalls on voting, but there's a chance that she does lose if me and her cross, bc then i have her alignment confirmed and i can finally read her posts without shielding my eyes, and maybe seeing the light is enough and you see it too

and that possibility is tantalizing enough to me that i would like at least a chance at considering if i want to go that direction. or alternatively if i am leaning towards you being scum then i will just vote you and it's no difference

[fireisredsir]

i said "winning coalition" twice recently from skitter's pov and i realize it's a confusing shorthand. i mean one that has her in and her partner out

[fireisredsir]

that sounds like you're saying you get what scum!me is trying to do and now im curious what that scoundrel is up to (i wouldn't know personally. never met)

[fireisredsir]

thats pretty reasonable yeah. sounds like something i might do

it does still sound like in that world id be trying to desperately pull myself out of a hole that i for some reason dug and then willingly and gladly jumped in but fair enough i suppose

[fireisredsir]

i feel like i am solving though, both from the real time angle of trying to understand both of your thoughts and sort you and also from the angle of spending a lot of time rereading and reading past meta

i guess it's true i haven't really made a big display of that but i haven't really reached an answer im happy with right now so that's harder for me to do

[fireisredsir]

i can try to talk about myself less tho, i do agree that doing so is generally like not super useful (and something that scums in this position really prefer doing) it's just hard for me not to respond to things sometimes

[fireisredsir]

mmmm i guess thats also reasonable the likely trajectory of the game was fairly different with brass

[fireisredsir]

in your last few posts it sounds like you are relatively confident, is that more due to just not seeing hellbooks as scum or is it due to actively finding me scummy? if it's the latter then what specific points are the things that you feel the most convinced by?

[fireisredsir]

i kinda hate elo because it feels like every post is really not at all different from how i would post if i were scum in the same situation and then i can feel myself trying to like twist my words around to squeeze out any drops of towniness that must be in there somewhere and avoid sounding like scum but really it probably just ends up making my posts sound tortured and constructed

[fireisredsir]

i did hit submit on that before reading that post i promise

[fireisredsir]

it was a reaction to my own previous post where i was absolutely doing that and pondering over "how would i say this if i was scum" and then trying to not do that

[fireisredsir]

maybe fire is kind of feeling like me voting him over infinity is a foregone conclusion

if you're town i don't really have any idea where you're thinking of voting although heading into the day phase my money would have been on you voting me

if you're scum then i think you're avoiding voting because that's likely to win you the game

[fireisredsir]

tbh probably the highest win% play is for me to just lean into it and play like how i would if i were scum because i definitely have a higher rate of getting voted as town than i do as scum, and im generally a lot better at elos as scum

but i think deep down i really want to believe that if i am just honest and true enough to myself that someone will see it and recognize it and know that im town

unfortunately even deeper down i think i know that's probably not true

i think the game of mafia is sort of a reflection of reality in that way and maybe thats why i keep playing it

[fireisredsir]

in your last few posts it sounds like you are relatively confident, is that more due to just not seeing hellbooks as scum or is it due to actively finding me scummy? if it's the latter then what specific points are the things that you feel the most convinced by?

haha you should've asked earlier, now i'm less confident!

the most convincing thing to me is how skitt kept poking and prodding about you being left out of the coalition. and there's also a lot of small things that add up to being pretty convincing, like you playing weirdly around the skitt wagon and the "oh wait what" post. i also think all the nk'ed townies would have wanted to lim you over hellbooks here but i have to make sure on isis. a large portion is also hellbooks not making sense as scum

maybe this is what you were talking about earlier but can you elaborate on why the poking and prodding thing makes me scum

[fireisredsir]

they were an inspiration

[fireisredsir]

i think that is the hardest part of townplay for me and maybe the biggest meta difference between scum and town. im not very good at like playing manipulative as town ok god i said i would stop talking about myself im going to actually try to do that now

[fireisredsir]

i think the nightkill makes an immense amount of sense coming from you and not much at all sense coming from infinity (especially if they are just going to push me anyway) so me too i guess

[fireisredsir]

i guess if they believe it's the kill i would make, which is fairly reasonable considering isis was scumreading me like the whole game and they don't know my meta, then it could be the most logical kill in order to frame me

i just probably would think more from the perspective of "who is left alive" than "who would the person im pushing as scum kill" but maybe they approach nightkills differently

[fireisredsir]

i also think all the nk'ed townies would have wanted to lim you over hellbooks here but i have to make sure on isis.

and follow up to that point im actually not really sure i believe that they missed how much isis was scumreading me given the time they were here and also the reading that they've done

[fireisredsir]

rereading isis most recent posts and its like really clear that she's written off hellbooks as town and isn't ever considering her

it's also like possible that infinity believes isis lands on them over me in 3p, she was wavering a little on me at the end although she did still say several times that i was among her top choices to yeet

[fireisredsir]

i guess maybe isis kill resulting in a really potentially favorable situation for scum hellbooks (me and infinity going at each other) doesn't actually mean that isis kill implies hellbooks scum (apologies to datisi for that mistake)

bc like literally any other kill is also a really potentially favorable situation for scum hellbooks

[fireisredsir]

ohh I get it the reason you were angling hellbooks is because you thought I was less confident than I am. boring tbh

this one feels like a stretch to me

[fireisredsir]

there's not really any world where that makes sense bc i was asking that if you are town and about to vote me (aka willing to bet the game on me being scum aka maximum confidence) that you let me vote first

so my read on your confidence levels wouldn't have any effect on whether i ask for that

[fireisredsir]

wellll after I expressed my confidence and hellbooks expressed perhaps wanting to vote me you are now going "hmmm maybe hellbooks is scum" it doesn't seem like a stretch to me

is this what you meant to say or are you misreading somewhere

[fireisredsir]

i am not just now saying maybe hellbooks is scum, i said that a while ago and that was why i didn't want you to vote me, bc i was leaning towards hellbooks being scum but also wasn't really able to make myself vote unless put under the pressure of the game potentially ending if i don't. and i knew that if she was scum then she likely wouldn't vote first bc that lowers her win% dramatically

my posting on this page was more considering again the world where you are scum

[fireisredsir]

i think if there is any pattern of timing it's that i tend to think whoever posted most recently is town

[fireisredsir]

ok yea i mean that's fair but still i don't see why it would have anything to do with your confidence

[fireisredsir]

good morning im here to ignore the counsel of my lawyer

[fireisredsir]

im pretty sure hellbooks in her current self hasn't ever had to play scum

[fireisredsir]

maybe the plan was to bus skitt the whole time. it's still a bit hard to imagine skitt just going "yep that sounds great" especially when people are going to wonder why hellbooks is alive afterwards. but people didn't wonder that and maybe that wouldn't be too hard to predict

if I really stretch I could see the "idk who scum is but I know it's skitt!!" as informed

i don't think hellbooks even if town would take much offense to me saying that her read and laser (occam's laser was so good thats a top 3 one liner in this game) on skitter had very little influence on anyone else's read and on the gamestate as a whole

nothing about it seems very unbelievable as a bus because she didn't actually do anything to try to get a coalition without skitter in it and she didn't really try to get skitter eliminated either

so i think of all the reasons to potentially discount hellbooks as scum (which i think there are several) this one barely even makes an impact for me

[fireisredsir]

i would be willing to bet that wasn't the plan but like what are you gonna do

[fireisredsir]

i guess this isn't so useful to you but fmpov ive basically ruled out all possible worlds where skitter had a grand plan besides "leave a bunch of false associatives and hope town yeets town" bc either it's hellbooks or it was bulge/brass

so like idk i know she didn't. and i know she didn't have a lot of time for the game

[fireisredsir]

i missed the traitor one due to no scum pt i guess ill read that, although traitor play is kinda different

[fireisredsir]

should we just elim brassherald now so we don't all get snowed by poppy

oops

[fireisredsir]

i am learning from this that (honestly, as expected) i really should not gut townread the times where someone asks you a question and you dodge the question while also lampshading your own dodge of it in a funny and disarming way

[fireisredsir]

i guess i should see if that's something you do as town. it feels like it would be but im not sure

[fireisredsir]

i don't think im struggling for a narrative at all sorry if ive given that impression

ive thought for a while that she fits pretty well as a skitter partner and the main thing that ive had trouble overcoming is that i just. don't want to believe her being scum. and there's a lot of little moments that whenever i look at them i think "oh come on scum wouldn't have really done that would they"

but like fundamentally i do think and i have thought since like day 1 that her solving is significantly less than it was in the previous two recent games ive seen her play. especially when she wasn't under any pressure or threat there was a lack of that kind of proactive energy of just, prodding at posts and trying to sort people. when her posts were more solving, a lot of it was more just musing on her own reads, in a way that i think has felt different to her town games

for a while i wrote this off as due to the setup, where she hasn't been under lim threat all game (where in the other games she was at times), but it does still linger for me

[fireisredsir]

important lore established in my dream last night

- skitter30's username is derived from the word "handkerchief" (i dont remember how but it was convincing to me) but she said that it seemed "classy"
- brassherald replaces out and is replaced by someone named "Poppy"

[fireisredsir]

this poppy lore is new to me and i appreciate it a lot

[fireisredsir]

7) idk i just don't really think it's hellbooks lmao i don't have a good reason. i guess it's plausible that she would be leaning into the setting herself up as opposing skitter but not very loudly/convincingly and accepting that she is going to be the one left out. so strategically it actually fits pretty well. maybe im snowed

like this was my mindset on hellbooks start of day 2 after rereading the first 60 pages overnight

honestly not a ton has changed

[fireisredsir]

spooky the magical scare

this is a phrase ive been saying to myself every time i think about pooky the magical bear for probably at least two years

and now i will too

[fireisredsir]

i definitely get that way with albums where one is like perfect wonderful great and then they release a new one and im all excited for it and then i listen to it once and don't care at all and go back to the one i like

[fireisredsir]

I think shea would be the most likely to get a snake out of the locker room in this game but I would probably be the one to do it if no one else would

i think this is definitely true and i think him dying really did severely reduce the levels of getting snakes out of the locker room that is this game

[fireisredsir]

i was rereading the section after the house of leaves post and seeing how things exactly transitioned to skitter and wow i really did post a lot less of my mindset there than i thought i did

all three of our slots were like kinda absent although i think that brassherald being around was like kinda towny (including the bit where he was like please call me a smart good boy for suspecting tris, that just feels kinda uninformed to me) until the part where he did put tris on e-1 right as people started to wonder if they should pivot to skitter which is like. oof. but also sheep did similar and he's town so

[fireisredsir]

i was like really deep in the trenches of trying to solve the MU game and mostly failing and i remember just checking in here and seeing people leaning towards tris and then leaning towards skitter and being like yeah cool thumbs up

[fireisredsir]

I'm too infatuated by individual songs to listen to albums very much

pedit: yeahh and that's possibly a reason why snake!hellbooks is hiding in plain sight here. what did Shea say about hellbooks

he generally scumread her in coal forming stage and didn't want her in at all but i don't really get the sense she would be his top pick for a skitter partner

i would guess that in general he's probably one of the most likely slots in the game to be relatively immune to her whimsical charms though

id say most likely reason is that he was like almost always town and also was one of the few who was like making choices and getting things to happen

[fireisredsir]

what did i mean by writing it or what does it mean for alignment of people remaining

[fireisredsir]

i think its kind of a universal reason that could apply to anyone

arguably actually i probably took the most advantage of the vacant snake-yeeting space by being the one to step up and be like "okay we're limming sheep"

deeply resisting the urge to self meta explain why i wouldn't want to do that but yeah idk im town. i guess maybe it does actually tilt slightly towards hellbooks scum over your slot because with everyone a little apathetic we're maybe more likely to default to the somewhat lurky afk slot in brass

[fireisredsir]

what did you mean by it. like shea was almost always town and that's the most likely reason what

oh the most likely reason for him being the nightkill choice. like whoever did it, thats probably why they did, moreso than any reads he had

[fireisredsir]

i guess maybe that looks like me saying like "no don't look at the part where he said i was a skitter partner" but im talking fmpov here

also idk i don't really believe that was a serious read that would stick around, he townread me pretty firmly prior to that

[fireisredsir]

i think its kind of a universal reason that could apply to anyone

arguably actually i probably took the most advantage of the vacant snake-yeeting space by being the one to step up and be like "okay we're limming sheep"

deeply resisting the urge to self meta explain why i wouldn't want to do that but yeah idk im town. i guess maybe it does actually tilt slightly towards hellbooks scum over your slot because with everyone a little apathetic we're maybe more likely to default to the somewhat lurky afk slot in brass

well I know you wouldn't want to do that but you were at e-2

meant wouldn't want to put myself in that situation

nobody believed me when i said id kill ari over shea but imo i would

[fireisredsir]

i would definitely bet that the dead thread consensus is that it's me so i mean yeah if you want to deadsheep then the answer is pretty easy

they're wrong tho

[fireisredsir]

here's what i think everyone in the dead thread is saying:

ari - this is an exciting elo i don't know who it is! i still think it's fire though

sheep - man i cannot believe i let scum fire lim me like that. im not falling for those tricks again next time

shea - you know what actually i think it isn't fire. its hellbooks. she's still lurking

isis - whoaoaoa im dead. nobody reminded me to play my goodra deck. fire is probably scum but i am glad i got nightkilled because i don't know

tris - i think it's maybe infinity but everyone seems really towny here

skitter - (:

datisi - hehehe

[fireisredsir]

i think normally shea would be more undecided but he'd become more stubbornly confident due to everyone else disagreeing with him

[fireisredsir]

im gonna spend a day or so trying to solve this game (if i can) and if i come to a conclusion ill probably be ready to vote

[fireisredsir]

dethy sounds confusing

[fireisredsir]

to be honest the only dethy thing ive seen prior to this game is animal sounds dethy and i am realizing that is a variant and not the standard

[fireisredsir]

i tried like writing out a post about the potential narrative of infinity slot being scum and hellbooks being scum and halfway through i felt like it wasn't useful and gave up

maybe ill revisit it tomorrow

[fireisredsir]

i once again am feeling like my reasons for things aren't good

[fireisredsir]

my biggest conflict rn is that i feel like i have more solid reasons for infinity slot being scum than i do for hellbooks being scum

but i also feel like i have more solid reasons for infinity slot being town than i do for hellbooks being town

hellbooks is just kind of in the middle as a shrug yea i could see it either way

[fireisredsir]

every time i go back and read a hellbooks towngame it makes me want to vote hellbooks

[fireisredsir]

fire are you demoralized?

always

[fireisredsir]

actually idk not that much. i just am not that confident that anything i think will be useful or correct. but thats like normal right

i would say that i am maybe having more trouble keeping my thoughts organized and not scattered than usual but i don't think im demoralized. even if we lose its ok i think whichever of you is scum played really well

[fireisredsir]

also i'm wondering what part of the game mostly you're looking at to make your decision

i have probably spent the most time looking at the early part and the ending part of coalition forming phase

i think that for both of your slots, once coalition was formed, skitter probably mostly leaned in to leaving false trails and did so successfully. so like that portion of the game isn't super useful to read imo

the other thing im mostly looking at is just like reading over bits of each of your isos and comparing it to meta and seeing if it's better to just like read the slots individually because often times thinking too much about like overall scum strategy can trip me up when it comes to elo

[fireisredsir]

i guess if you're town the thing i would like to know is what you find so clearing about hellbooks bc although i like her posting a lot i don't really see anything that looks out of place as far as being a skitter partner

i know that if im scum then this is like me asking you for a road map for how to change your mind but like if you're town then that's also what i need to do in order to win help im doing it again elo sucks