/Invitational 13: The battle of Yarmouk. Decisive victory!

[Katsuki]

Vote: KittyMo

[Katsuki]

Unvote, Vote: DRK

[Katsuki]

Not particularly.

[Katsuki]

Katsuki: Are you always this lurkerish?

I'm usually more lurkerish. I've simply been nonparticipant thus far.

[Katsuki]

I also echo KK's desire to hammer.

[Katsuki]

Not interested in giving that at the moment.

Though you can probably tell panzer is one of them.

[Katsuki]

Well that's why I haven't hammered yet.

[Katsuki]

You've played with me before, though I'd rather not remind you of the game as it was quite the abortion of a game.

Pity we don't share a QT this time round, Rhinox~

Panzer, you have a day before I hammer.

[Katsuki]

(I'm quite curious as to why I'm town though).

[Katsuki]

I'm quite satisfied with how this day has gone. I have other reads that lead to me to believe that panzer will most likely flip scum.

[Katsuki]

I would argue that getting to D2 quicker in a nightless would be far more beneficial than drawing D1 out all things considered (for me at least).

Also, other things that I will hold out on for now, this is a reminder to myself~

fixed tags

[Katsuki]

Fine.

[Katsuki]

Wonderful, didn't see this happening.

Unvote, Vote: mith

[Katsuki]

I thought we had to get through panzer first before getting this.

[Katsuki]

Mith's general approach to the game, and none of his posts give me a good feeling. Read mith properly D1 in TM2011, so I trust my gut (in addition to his posts this game).

Panzer's #47. Plus mith-related reads.

[Katsuki]

It's been expanded on enough in #74.

[Katsuki]

Also, this is page 4, not day 4~

[Katsuki]

I'm not a fan of the mith wagon. A lot of what people are calling him scummy for just looks like playstyle differences.

That's most definitely not why he's being called scum.

[Katsuki]

This day is moving way too slowly.

[Katsuki]

I think a couple of people have smeared him when all hes actually guilty of is being boring.

If we were voting based on boring it'd probably be your neck in the noose right now.

[Katsuki]

Yes and I'm saying that you're the one guilty of being boring.

[Katsuki]

Or he could just be scum.

[Katsuki]

Sigh.

Hammering in the morning.

[Katsuki]

Unvote, Vote: Panzer

[Katsuki]

oh right nightless.

Katsuki can you explain why you think this is so:

I would argue that getting to D2 quicker in a nightless would be far more beneficial than drawing D1 out all things considered

I dislike muddled interactions.

To clarify, I feel that the more information we have, the better. D1 is a lot of "blah blah blah can be scum based off of X if X is ___", or stuff of that variation.


Also wtf man...

[Katsuki]

(oh just remembered, at the time, I felt very strongly about panzer and mith scum, which is why I just wanted to lynch (that was the "all things considered" part of the post)

[Katsuki]

So I can't have more than 1 scum read, and the strengths of these reads can't vary? You sure say some interesting things, mith.

Need to think and re-read when I have more time... Still think mith is scum but game obviously doesn't seem quite as straightforward as I thought.

Meanwhile

Vote: mith

[Katsuki]

Sorry been busy, will catch up tonight hopefully (if not tmr).

[Katsuki]

@Kat: what did you mean by "Sigh" in post 142? When you were voting panzer, and thought mith was scum with him, why didn't you mention your scumread on mith?

When? Do you mean originally? I didn't express it then because I'm very weak as a town player, and while my reads are more often than not right, I'm generally unable to get my scumreads lynched. Especially in a game of this playerbase, I wanted to get panzer lynched, then be able to hammer mith lynch through D2 as there is no way I could stand toe to toe with mith D1.

tl;dr, I'd easily lose 1v1 with any scum in this game as my argumentative and language skills are very weak.


Also regarding reads, my panzer read was based off of my mith scum read + the things others were pointing out about panzers actions eg. the cheerleading on DRK. Mith was always the stronger scumread, I thought he was doing something I caught him doing in another game where he was scum.

[Katsuki]

Oh and the sigh was that this game is apparently not the easymode I thought it would be (aka easy mith panzer).

[Katsuki]

So I can't have more than 1 scum read, and the strengths of these reads can't vary? You sure say some interesting things, mith.

This is a really strange interpretation of what mith said. Can you point out where in mith's post you got each of those things from?

His supposed analysis of my posts.

[Katsuki]

Finish other read throughs probably tomorrow if paper done early.

[Katsuki]

I'm sorry for my inactivity thus far this game. Been incredibly busy with schoolwork what with a shit ton of lab reports and finals coming up.

Will try and do the readthrough I've been wanting to do forever tonight...

[Katsuki]

I know how you feel... it's pretty much how I feel at this point. T^T

I still want to say that I'm not wrong on mith and obviously lynching him is hard, but how last day went obviously has me doubting myself. Also means obviously that there are other good players as scum this game which is all blah.

Chamber you don't seem to be as engaged with this game. Why is that?

[Katsuki]

Katsuki: "I thought he was doing something I caught him doing in another game where he was scum." - What did you think I was doing, and when did you first think this?

From the very start of the game in how you approached the panzer wagon. It was more that my feeling towards you got progressively worse as the game went on (took a few RL days for this game to even get through two pages), and panzer's play that lead me to that link between you two.

[Katsuki]

Really want an answer from Katsuki before I get into some of this further (including the "red herring").

As far as "not the kind of thing I think opportunistic scum make up", the problem with your argument here is that opportunistic scum Katsuki wasn't saying most of this until trying to explain his behaviour today. Whether or not "I was too chicken to vote for him before" would have helped lynch me yesterday, earned him town points yesterday, made the switch easy yesterday, is all irrelevant because

he wasn't giving that explanation yesterday

. All that's in his ISO is that he was willing to hammer Panzer and then the implication that he didn't think a mith lynch was viable until you jumped back to me. Neither of these strike me as out-of-character for opportunistic scum at all.

It's bullshit cases like these are so incredibly scummy. I refuse to believe that you rely on generics to scumhunt.

I was asked by others to explain my behavior and thinking behind my posts from last game day, and apparently that makes me scum too.

[Katsuki]

Fishy, I'm interested, who do you actually find as scum this game?


Gotta finish catching up once again at a later time, didn't get chance to skim through walls.

[Katsuki]

@Kat: did you see my post 260 yesterday?

I hadn't, no.

I really must apologize for my inactivity thus far this game. I am done with finals on Wed. but the most important one is on Monday so hopefully I'll have time to catch up on the end of yesterday and get my thoughts out there.

[Katsuki]

Proddodge

Still working my way through finals

[Katsuki]

Sorry I owe this game much more than what I've been able to provide thus far.

Skimmed this page, chamber why that question?
Also it's D3 already. Why no awesomeness yet?

My substance is that mith is scum. Not much I know but it's something~

[Katsuki]

Sorry I owe this game much more than what I've been able to provide thus far.

Skimmed this page, chamber why that question?
Also it's D3 already. Why no awesomeness yet?

My substance is that mith is scum. Not much I know but it's something~

Why is mith scum? How have your views on the game been altered by the scumflip?

Scum for reasons stated.

I admit I have yet to reassess in light of the flip though. Heading out the door now but re-reading and analyzing is something I really need to get to. Will get to this after I get my game set up.

[Katsuki]

VOTE: Katsuki

A week and a half since a scumflip, and Kat hasn't reread in light of it. Smells like Kat's trying to keep his head down, because he's a possible lynch but at the moment we're going the other way.

Finals and being overloaded in schoolwork tends to do that to you.

Unfortunately I'll be out of town tomorrow morning until Wed night, and will have no comp access.

I want to say that I don't think I agree to a Chamber lynch given what I saw on this page but I'll reassess that once I get back.

[Katsuki]

I can't shake the feeling that you (and Kitty Mo, previously) are coaching Katsuki to some extent.

I was thinking, but why would you think that they'd be "coaching" me, especially in thread? It seems like an odd statement to make/focus on from a town point of view.


I have some other thoughts that I'd like to hold on to until I get an answer to this.

[Katsuki]

Also @mith, why was I always seemingly a #2 scumread throughout D2? First it was behind Chamber, then it was behind kitty.

[Katsuki]

Happy April Fools!

Re: #2 scumread - Seriously? I was voting for you for a week, and happy as I am that it was a good lynch, I switched to Kitty because it was the best option at deadline, not because you had dropped back to #2.

I missed your vote for me while reading through.

[Katsuki]

Of the 3 I'm happiest with a chamber lynch. Kats would be choice #2 but I still don't really think kats is scum. KK lynch would be pretty silly. Its possible both votes on KK are scum votes.

What do you make of Chamber not wanting to lynch me? (or at least I read the intent as he wouldn't vote me to save himself)

[Katsuki]

Also why do you still think I'm more likely town than scum rhinox?

[Katsuki]

Well I doubt you'll see this before deadline aynways.

Vote: Chamber

[Katsuki]

Yeah I'm probably going to be a giant distraction staying alive at this point.

Regarding the Chamber lynch, it was beyond saving so.

Vote: Katsuki

[Katsuki]

Boo.

VOTE: Katsuki

Kat cruised through Day 3, not doing anything because neither he nor his scumpartner was the number 1 lynch choice. He provided no content until I called him on it (and, to be fair, his exams ended). Then he made odd little prods at mith, and asked about townreads on him. Unlike anyone else in the game, as far as you can tell from the thread he hasn't even

noticed

that we lynched scum. This guy is not playing like a townie.

We're lynching Kat today. I'm not moving my vote. Spare yourselves two weeks of us not really doing anything and vote him with me now.

I was busy for the 3 weeks leading up to the finals. I can see why my lurking makes me look like scum, but it was out of my control.

[Katsuki]

I would've been far more manipulative this game if I were scum.

[Katsuki]

Anyways I would say it's worth looking into KK tomorrow. I'm sure Chamber had his reasons for suspecting KK.

[Katsuki]

Katsuki, do you believe that your lynch right now would be more beneficial to the town than that of anyone other specific person? If you had to choose 2 remaining players as a scum pair, which 2 would they be?

I honestly have no idea. I had Fishy and Rhino as town reads yesterday, and a weak one on Chamber. I'd expect everyone in this game to have very strong scum games though so they'd probably look like town anyways.
I had a very strong gut scum read on mith through days 1 and 2, but I'm not sure anymore given my inability to get any solid reads this game. Doesn't help that I haven't played with half of you before.

I would've been far more manipulative this game if I were scum.

You mean like, self-voting when it looks like people are going to lynch you?

I would've made up reads game-days ago to make myself appear like an engaged townie rather than a lurker. It's incredibly easy to produce reads as scum to suit your own purposes. You should know, you even shared a QT with me and saw this first-hand.

[Katsuki]

Katsuki, do you believe that your lynch right now would be more beneficial to the town than that of anyone other specific person?

Forgot to answer this.

Obviously my lynch is not desirable, but I don't see it NOT happening. There is too much liability with my slot and it's reached a point where my presence will only further detract from actual scumhunting.

I've already been unable to get any solid reads this game so not only is my slot distracting, but I myself probably will be a liability going down this game given my lack of confidence.

[Katsuki]

I highly dislike this above post. It's the type of post I'd make if I were scum.

[Katsuki]

Katsuki you haven't expressed a single town read this entire game. Is there anyone you feel is town?

I was trying to identify town reads last game day, and ended with you and fishy, with chamber as a weak townread.

At this point though, it's fallen towards neutral.

[Katsuki]

I mind as well add in that sadly enough, mith is looking more town to me than previously.

[Katsuki]

Anything in particular?

Almost the entire post.

It's more so the approach, and the intent behind that post.

[Katsuki]

Long day tomorrow have some things I want to re-read will comment tomorrow if not too tired.

[Katsuki]

In lab want thoughts out before anything happens

unvote

[Katsuki]

It is very late. I will post tomorrow.

[Katsuki]

Eh.

So I never ended doing that readthrough I wanted.

But KK is being incredibly lazy today and I really can't see why he would be if he were town.

Going by what I'm seeing today I'm happy to put my faith in rhinox and mith, and go from there. Which means, so long as we lynch DRK/KK/fishy this should be game.

Not liking fishy as much today because his progression of reads especially on me don't make nearly as much sense as rhino. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he were playing a hell of a scumgame.
DRK's positions today are terrible as shit though and I really want to see him gone before me. I'm pretty sure we have this game wrapped up if DRK is scum, easily with KK or fishy.

Game is pretty easy. So long as we can get two solid townreads, there should be no reason for us to lose this. I think today shows rhino and mith clearly as town, meaning lynching from {DRK, KK, fishy, (Katsuki)} pretty much guarantees a win.

Vote: DRK

[Katsuki]

And how did your position even manage to go from "I'm a distraction and I have no idea what's going on in this game, we should lynch me..." to "we should lynch x, y, and z, gg we win"?

It's called D4 happened honey.

But apparently I can't get reads over the course of a day.

[Katsuki]

Game starting I'll answer your post in a sec fishy. But long story short I don't get why you'd be pair-hunting when you can get scum first and go from there. Especially when good scum won't leave links like that.

I remember the first game I ever read on this site, people were pairhunting in LYLO, and ended up lynching wrong, and scum ended up being a pair that no one suspected even in 7p. (think it was a zor large normal)

[Katsuki]

Then you guys can lynch me and spare me having to waste any more time on this game if when ever I try to make an actual post or put some effort into this game comes across as phony.

[Katsuki]

Oh I could just self hammer right now but I'm pretty sure no one would ever want to play with me again if I did it so someone else just do so I'm done.

[Katsuki]

Your thoughts also happen to be fairly bullshit but I suppose that's a whole other story.

[Katsuki]

Eh last thoughts I still don't like how fishy finally "settled" on me after suspicion on DRK arose.

You mind as well answer what Kats townflip makes DRK.

[Katsuki]

At this point, 413 is just making Katsuki look consistently OMGUSy to me.

I'm not scum, what did you guys want me to do?

When players make shit terrible pushes on me of course I'm going to call them out on it. But apparently it makes it OMGUS so I dont even.

[Katsuki]

And so "putting self out of danger" to make sure one can get their thoughts in is scummy.

...

[Katsuki]

And to summarize that post, I can be either town or scum...

= =b

[Katsuki]

Also, when you find someone scummy, you'd still rather see your lynch before theirs.
Because that is completely scummy.

These things you guys say~~~

[Katsuki]

And so "putting self out of danger" to make sure one can get their thoughts in is scummy.

Sorry, whole situation reads like a giant AtE.

Isn't that what everyone's been saying?

It's funny because I'm not even going all pouty eyes and everything at people...

[Katsuki]

Have fun guys.

@KK: Eh, self-hammering as town in an /invitational though? Under normal circumstances I would've without hesitation but well considering the quality of the playerbase here.

w/e though I played horrendously this game.

Please rope DRK after me thanks.

[Katsuki]

Also whoever said what I did in #413 or whichever post it was that I stated townreads, town literally can not lose this game once two townreads have been identified in a game where scum apparently have no NKs.

Which leads to my logic of game being over once DRK, KK and fishy are purged, because mith and rhinox are the most likely townies right now. So in a way, townhunting is an effective strategy in this scenario.

But no one cares what dead people have to say so.

[Katsuki]

Anyways I have faith that this day and how people approached me will be more than enough to out the remaining scum hopefully

[Katsuki]

Well played scum.

Rhinox, I assume your 'Kats metatown read' was BS?

Only lynch I regret this game was the Chamber lynch. It was terrible but there was no way of rescuing it at that point.

Also once again apologies for my lurking I was overwhelmed for much of the last quarter, then spring break.

I honestly don't know what I could've done to make myself appear more townie, so feedback in that department would help. I couldn't get any solid reads late into the game until I self-voted, where all my scumreads turned out to be town... pretty much how bad my reads were this entire game. I thought I was incredibly transparent with my thoughts, considering how normally I would've offered a tiny fraction as to my thought process that I did this game.

[Katsuki]

Wait what. I thought rhinox was scum lol (mykonian you liar!). So it was you DRK...

NVM then I guess I am quite happy with my reads this game.

[Katsuki]

Also I'm still not quite sure how my lynch went through after #413. Maybe I should've just kept quiet and lurked through that I don't know, but it was painfully obv to me.

[Katsuki]

5. I really wanted to get chamber or Katsuki pulled into an argument, and they were having none of it.

You're a cheeky one you.

[Katsuki]

I honestly don't know what I could've done to make myself appear more townie, so feedback in that department would help.

From the point of view of "things I was able to take advantage of as scum", see #420, which was probably the easiest post to write in the entire game because I was being 100% genuine. That was actually intended as a soft-defense of you, to subtly reinforce the possibility that I had switched off you because you were my scumbuddy (which unfortunately was too subtle and missed everyone, to the point that I had to spell it out in #440)... But OMGUSy town are easy to manipulate, in general.

Mmm... I let the paranoia of nightless get the better of me. I think I explained pretty much why I had that switch of reads D4 though I think, but I suppose the switch itself wasn't too good. Lack of confidence is something I suffer greatly from as town.

I'd easily lose 1v1 with any scum in this game as my argumentative and language skills are very weak.

There's really only one way to develop those skills... and it's not to vote-hop with no reasoning.

Funny enough, I tried to give reasons this game. I probably should've just stuck with "gut", as that's pretty much why I had you down as a scumread by page 2 (plus, with so little said, I couldn't really find anything to nail you down with, aside from panzer (who's town flip fucked my case over pretty hard).