Micro 181: Everyone's being watched (Game Over)

[Wisdom]

Do you really think it's a MsM/Egg team?
with both of them abstaining from the main wagons

Its either Miss D and Malakittens, or Miss D and Egg. I kind of had a townread on Horus so I am not that sure about Egg; but seriously I don't understand his play at all.
In any case there's no doubt Miss D is scum, especially after those last attempts of her to push me.

[Wisdom]

you constant flips on Rach

Rach is a person that I have mislynched twice in the past. I cannot be too confident in my reads on her anymore. My "constant flips" should make it obvious that I'm trying to understand the situation and read her accurately.

[Wisdom]

Pedit: Oh gawd, the " X person's vote is useless" thing... Die Scum die

Oh do tell me how this is a scumtell.
You're desperate and you're just going over everything I say and add "omg scum scum scum".
It won't work, Mara.

[Wisdom]

Also Mara, tell me how I am connecting you with Malakittens.
My suspicions on you are in 521 through 564 (Everyone should really reread this exchange, as well as the meta I provided, it's really obvious she's scum)
In these posts, the only "connection" I make with you and Malakittens is saying that the scumteam I am seeing is Miss D/Malakittens in 538. In which I dont provide scumtells based on connection with Malakittens, I am just saying what my two scumreads are.
So where exactly am I connecting, Mara?

[Wisdom]

Don't you disappear on me few hours before the deadline! You're talking in site chat, come here and 1v1 me.

[Wisdom]

ftr here is an example of Town-me making connections and actually using them in cases against people.

[Wisdom]

Come on sword, if we had not waited for Egg you would have hammered Miss D. You saw how terrible her contradictions were.

[Wisdom]

Are you fucking kidding me Mala? If you're town and you believe what you said you can't read Mara for shit.

[Wisdom]

this is you making the connection between with someone else. you have done it many times, but you have denied it when I brought it up.

Do you know what making connections are?
It's using association tells to accuse people of being scum.
Again, my case on you has no association tells in it; you are scum because of your own behavior, because of your own actions, not because of your connection with others.
An example of actual connections/ association tells are in the game I linked.

[Wisdom]

I bring up the point that you are making connections between people, and I have never seen you do it as scum. first time you ask, second time you outright deny that you did it, third time you actually show me a link where you did make connections but if you were town you wouldn't be worried about me using it as a point against you and you would have done that first and foremost.

And why would I do that first and foremost?
Your whole case is "You're not usual town Wisdom" when you've seen how much I hate this and how I ignore it.

[Wisdom]

In post 538, Wisdom wrote:k
Miss D/Malakittens is what I'm seeing right now


connection between me and Mala, you don't do anything with it. you just state it.

and then you make a connection between me and Egg when he joins me onto you...

Again.
This is not making connections.
Making connections means using association tells.
Making connections means thinking someone is scum because someoone else is scum.

also, your stance on Rach this game gives me a huge De ja Vu feeling on your stance on Vigiven in the polygamist game. This is making me believe that Rach is in fact town

Bullshit.
Not only you assume that I play scum the same way all the time, all while you've seen my scumgame just once, but also my stance on Rach is nothing like VV. With VV I faked a whole argument trying to push him in hopes of getting support, stopped when I saw there was none. Here I am trying to read Rach, I have argued with her 2-3 times and I change my opinion about her because I am scared I am wrong about her. I do not need to gather support for a Rach lynch; she's at L-1 and I could have hammered her. Hell, if I wait, I can hammer her at the deadline and have the perfect excuse if she flips town. There is no relevence at all; this is just scum-you trying to justify why you find me "scum" with weak reasoning.

[Wisdom]

you use absolute certainty that a person is scum as a scum-tell when you know it isn't.

It isn't in general. I can tunnel on town as town and be completely certain they are scum, but I am not going to quote all their posts and go "scum scum scummy scum lynch scum omg scum". It's all about how you handle the situation.

[Wisdom]

and you compare me to a game where you're scum to call me scum when our play styles are nothing alike.

It does not matter if our playstyles are different; the scum motivation in both cases is scum motivation.

[Wisdom]

I skimmed. Wisdom, it doesn't make sense that i'd rather lynch my scum reads than my town reads?

If I was scum why wouldn't I just go "meh, deadine" and vote Rach?

Because I'm a much bigger threat than Rach, who you can easily push in lylo.

[Wisdom]

god, drawing scum twice in a row must suck.

Hey guys, it's wisdom

He's scum

Die Scum die

You're scum

you are scum and you must die

This is what I am talking about.
It's scum who do this thing, spamming "scum scum scum" all the time, because what they want is to convince the others to sheep them, and it usually works.

[Wisdom]

Seriously guys, there's nothing even remotely resembling town Mara in her posts.
Her contradiction that Grim points out in 540 says it all. Look at it Mala, she contradicted the same way in Popcorn, you were there, you know it.

ffs guys. If we didn't stop to wait for a Horus replacement she would be long dead by now. Why can't we just lynch her?

[Wisdom]

Actually Thor does that a lot in either alignment. Picks someone and keeps saying so and so is scum.... And tries to get the town to sheep him, and it works well even after he has led the town to a mislynch or two.

Again it's all in the way you do it. It's the circumstances around it. And in this case it's terrible exactly because her reasoning for me being scum is weak.
Its another thing if you've made a big case against someone, you're certain they're scum and you keep emphasizing it, possibly to frustrate them and make them scumpost more, and another thing to have practically nothing on someone, and keep spamming "scum scum scum" after everything they post.
Bacde's play in this game was exactly that. And he was scum.

[Wisdom]

Mara you're only proving my point.
Compare these quotes you just posted to the way you've been spamming "You're scum" this game.
There is an obvious difference.

[Wisdom]

@Rach
Yea my point is Bacde did exactly that thing in that game. He replaced in and went "omg Wisdom scum, omg this isnt usual Wisdom" and he never made a serious case, all while acting that he's completely certain that I am scum and that there's scum motivation behind my every post.

Which is no different than what Miss D is doing.
Her main points are "omg no usual town Wisdom" (the same as Bacde)
and "he's makiing connections" while I'm not even making connections because saying "x and y are the scumteam" is not making connections, when your case on x is independent of your read on y.

[Wisdom]

No there isn't.

Your point it, being absolutely certain that a person is scum and continually calling them scum is a scum-tell. I state that doing that isn't, I bring up two games that back up my stance that being absolutely sure that someone is scum isn't a scumtell.

I had a town read on Despers prior to attacking him like that, everyone thought my case against him was weak as fuck as you are saying my case here against you is right now.

and I'm not treating you any different here than I treated DP in the second game. there is no difference

and you're making it look like there is one.

There you go again; you have to include one reason why I am scum in every post.

But yeah, Mara, there are differences. Your choice of words, the way you do it, even the fact that you had serious cases on those people in those games.
Maybe calling it a "scumtell" was wrong on my part, what I meant (and have explained it many times by now) is that the way you're doing it in this game is scummy.

and look, you use "there is nothing resembling town mara" you know nothing of town mara, you only played two games with her and both are two different states of mind.

I'm only saying it because there are people (Malakittens for example) who say that this is town Mara, when it's nothing like town Mara and it should be obvious to them. Sure, I only have 2 games with you-town, but they're enough to understand the differences from your scumplay.

[Wisdom]

No, you are making connections. making teams means you are making some kind of connection between those people, even if your reason isn't visible.

Except, again, I am not using any association tells. I am not saying "Miss D is scum because Malakittens did this and this." You are scum because of your own actions.

[Wisdom]

I also stated all your weird switching on Rach doesn't make any sense at all what-so-ever from town perspective

Except it does. And I explained it.
How about you explain WHY I need to do all this weird switching, since people want to lynch Rach anyway? And the reasons people want to lynch Rach are NOT because of anything I did, too.
So tell me why scum-me would need to do all this.
All I could do is stick to the "We need to lynch Rach, period" stance and get it over with. Who would blame me?

[Wisdom]

The bolded is a valid reason for thinking you're scum

It isn't, but that was not my point.
My point is that you're feeling the need to point out "you're scum" in every post of yours.
Which as I explained, shows scum motivation.

[Wisdom]

I even stated that you denying that you made no connections between me and anyone, couple times before you showed me a game where you did make connections as town implies that you didn't want to be caught in a possible "scum wisdom" relative tell

Pedit: you made the connection between and Mala. If you think me and Mala are a team, you are connecting us together regardless if you explain the connection or not

You still don't understand what making connections means.
First of all, stating that you think two people are scum is not necessarily connecting them, since you might find them scum independently. It IS connecting them if you make cases that use association tells. Like for example, "Mala did this, Miss D responded with this, it's scum theatre and they're both scum."
It COULD be argued that I made connections in my "case" against Malakittens, since all I said was that "she's going next" because of her read on you and stuff; and it's true that one of the main reasons I don't feel Malakittens being town is her stance on you.
But I made no connections, I used no association tells at all, in stating why

you

are scum. You are scum because of your actions, not because of association with Mala, with Egg, with anyone.

I brought up the game I linked for two reasons; the obvious one was to show that you're wrong about me not using association tells as town, and the other was to show you what using association tells is actually like. I did not have to do that in the first place because a "case" consisting of "youre not usual town Wisdom" and "youre making connections" is not even worthy to respond to seriously.

Pedit X2: no one would blame you, but this weird tunnelXBackoff/buddying Complex is weird and I think you want town-cred for

not

being on the town-rach wagon

Why would I need such towncred? Was I under suspicion? I could have Rach lynched very easily, and nobody would blame me; then I could easily push you or Mala or even Egg as the final lynch in lylo. Why make it harder?
I think you're confusing me with yourself here, because I'm guessing this is the reason you're not lynching Rach.
Despite stating that YOU AGREE WITH ME that Rach should be lynched.

Pedit: I didn't state that you were scum in every single post I made. I stated it a few times, but not every single post I made

Check again.
After you voted me, it's there on every post.
But I'll take the fact you're trying to defend from this as admitting that it's an actual scumtell.

[Wisdom]

and don't even bother talking to me in twilight, because I'm not going to respond

Doesnt surpise me at all

[Wisdom]

Egg/Mala, whoever of you two is town should really reread Mara again and again.
We better not lose this fucking thing because of you tomorrow.

[Wisdom]

Too late Grim

[Wisdom]

Note to self: Never fucking wait for replacements again.

[Wisdom]

Rach please read better next time before making assumptions that you're at L-1 and especially before you claim like what you did.
None of this would have happened if you didn't claim.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Miss D

If its somehow Egg & Mala, well done but there's no way I'm not lynching MissD

[Wisdom]

youre dead

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:
Consider my vote there though, Im not lynching anyone else

[Wisdom]

In any case this scumteam was awesome for figuring out both PRs so easily

[Wisdom]

Im rereading the entire game myself right now, and I gotta say I'll take my 874 back.
How possible is it that it's Egg-Malakittens? Both of them look incredibly scummy to me.

[Wisdom]

See the thing we don't know if Horus sent in an action prior to flaking. If he didn't then its likely randomized which could be likely Horus/egg visited Fuzzy due to that.

What I don't get is how Egg defended Rach hardcore. If Egg was scum and did that it would be a ballsy move and we would be moving into the 'too bold to be scum' category type gambit.

There's the chance that Egg could be town and went and visited Fuzzy, but it wouldn't make sense to clear Rach off that because he would know that PoE he could have been the only one other than Rach who visited Fuzzy.

So
Let's think of this scenario (disclaimer: it's only my speculation):
Mala-Horus
Horus killed fuzzy, and Mala blocked DBK.
Until the above post, everyone has claimed their targets, with Mala having claimed that she did visit DBK.
And in this post, Mala is trying to give reasons for Egg being town and visiting Fuzzy. Because she knows that Horus/Egg visited Fuzzy, and that he will have to claim it.
Ofc Egg realized that the DBK block was a good call, as the watcher would have outted now after all this discussion. So he lied about who he visited.

Does this make sense, or am I conf-biasing?

[Wisdom]

@Egg:

So let's see. You come into the thread chainsaw defend the largest wagon (MD) and then chainsaw the second largest wagon (Rach). Now you're trying to deflect the wagons onto me without really giving a read on Grim, Wisdom or Swords.
Although your first post gave out how you feel about them Grim/Wisdom, but not in depth. You didn't mention Swords/Bo.

You say you have meta to defend HD, but he's barely posting and for Mara I'm just not seeing her town play. (I have played with both alignments and I'm starting to figure out how to read her correctly)
So link me to your meta defense of HD, What shows us he's town rather not scum? Where's the similarities or differences between his play? Have you done an analysis on Mara too?

So question is have you read up on anyone else's meta other than HD's? Such as have you done a meta analysis of me?

Why are you so sure someone other than Rach did visit Fuzzy. You are so blinded thinking she's being truthful when there's a chance she could be lying.

@Rach you were at L-2 and this isn't the first time you panicked and claimed early like this. You did this in HB and due to this it gives off a semi-town tell, but the difference is between this game and that game you are more passive in my opinion. Which doesn't jibe with your town-meta.

To be more clear, my point is that Mala did not make this realization (that they are not in danger from the watcher), hence why she claimed she visited DBK (which she did) and why she tried to defend a fuzzy-visit for Egg.

[Wisdom]

Oops that quote was a leftover from multiquoting, ignore it

[Wisdom]

Watcher is one shot. if they saw someone else visit fuzzy, they should claim. If they only saw rach visit fuzzy, they should still claim. In both of these cases, they have no shot left and it doesn't matter if they are outted. If no one claims, we can assume the watcher didn't use their ability last night and we have no solid info on Rach except her posts which heavily indicate she's a VT who visited fuzzy.

still, either rach is scum or scum was ballsy enough to lie. That's still pretty valuable info. Give me a bit to decide if I think scum would be that ballsy or not and what it might mean if they were.

And this here confirms what I assumed about Egg; he did assume that the watcher was blocked successfully and thus his claim can easily be a lie.

[Wisdom]

@Egg:

So let's see. You come into the thread chainsaw defend the largest wagon (MD) and then chainsaw the second largest wagon (Rach). Now you're trying to deflect the wagons onto me without really giving a read on Grim, Wisdom or Swords.
Although your first post gave out how you feel about them Grim/Wisdom, but not in depth. You didn't mention Swords/Bo.

You say you have meta to defend HD, but he's barely posting and for Mara I'm just not seeing her town play. (I have played with both alignments and I'm starting to figure out how to read her correctly)
So link me to your meta defense of HD, What shows us he's town rather not scum? Where's the similarities or differences between his play? Have you done an analysis on Mara too?

So question is have you read up on anyone else's meta other than HD's? Such as have you done a meta analysis of me?

Why are you so sure someone other than Rach did visit Fuzzy. You are so blinded thinking she's being truthful when there's a chance she could be lying.

@Rach you were at L-2 and this isn't the first time you panicked and claimed early like this. You did this in HB and due to this it gives off a semi-town tell, but the difference is between this game and that game you are more passive in my opinion. Which doesn't jibe with your town-meta.

And it might be my confbias and my desire to see Egg-Mala making more sense, but after rereading my exchange with Mara I realize I was tunneling hard. She's not as scummy as I thought. And the sudden hammer on Rach doesn't look like something she would do as scum either.

[Wisdom]

wtf how do those quotes appear

[Wisdom]

Anyway
I think Egg-Mala

Grim, MissD, thoughts?

[Wisdom]

Also, something else I noticed in my reread:

@Fuzzy:

You seem different this game.. More activity for one and secondly giving out reads.. Is there a reason for this? Did you roll scum?

Why are you softclaiming a PR?

WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ROLEFISHING.

One does it .. Does not mean you can do it back.

Stfu. ._.

These possibly point to Mala picking up the fact fuzzy is a doc (hence the accurate kill)

[Wisdom]

Why Egg would realize that the block was accurate is easy; he himself explained almost instantly after his claim that the watcher would have claimed by now and therefore it's safe to assume they were blocked.
Also he explained why it would be better for scum to lie about their target than say they visited fuzzy.

Now as to why Mala didn't pick that up.. I don't know, but I have a theory. The Egg replacement happened in the day, not the night. Which means Mala had no communication with Egg, and could not be sure about what he thinks or what he will do. Therefore, he tried to defend a fuzzy-visit for him just in case he decides to be honest and claim he visited fuzzy. Of course Egg didn't, but Mala couldn't know that.

How does that sound to you?

[Wisdom]

she* tried

[Wisdom]

^Typical "I told you so" scum trying to take credit that he predicted someone was town

[Wisdom]

It is bussing. As you can see, he's the towncred-hunting type, and that's what he's trying to do; take credit from a Mala lynch then try to push me as her partner.

[Wisdom]

And MissD is likely to vote me over him in the final lylo, so it makes sense.

[Wisdom]

Some scum like to bus even when it isn't necessary, just to ensure they'll win. It happened in my first game, trust me, it happens. Please don't rule this team out just for that, when everything else makes so much sense and points to that team.

[Wisdom]

If he pushed me he would probably raise suspicion since his main scumread was Mala and not me; not to mention that you stated you are townreading me and he saw that; thus he knows he does not have your support to lynch me.

It's far more safe to bus then use the credit to win the final lylo.

[Wisdom]

Also.
We know for a fact DBK/sword was blocked on N1, namely was visited by scum.
Let's take a look at the claims again:

Claims:

RachMarie visited fuzzy

Miss Destroyer visited Malakittens
Wisdom visited DBK
Malakittens visited DBK

sword_of_omens visited Wisdom

Grimgroove visited Horus

Horus visited Malakittens

First of all if we follow my scenario, Horus(Egg) is the one lying here, visiting fuzzy instead of Malakittens.
If we assume that all claims prior to Egg's are legit, then the one who visited DBK and blocked him is either Wisdom or Malakittens. I know it isn't me, so this makes Malakittens scum.
MissD's claim about visiting Malakittens was the first after Rach claimed; unlike Egg, MissD couldn't be that sure just yet that the watcher is not going to out. It's not likely this is a lie.
Therefore Mala did visit DBK, and blocked him. And Horus did visit fuzzy, killed him, and Egg lied.

I really cannot see this being wrong.

[Wisdom]

I already said I am taking that back. Not thinking MissD is scum anymore.

And yes you did assume the watcher was blocked. Sec, I'll find the quote

[Wisdom]

If no one claims, we can assume the watcher didn't use their ability last night and we have no solid info on Rach except her posts which heavily indicate she's a VT who visited fuzzy.

Well, you called it "didn't use their ability", but as I said there was no reason for the watcher not to use it and you're not stupid to think that. So yes, you assumed that if he didn't say anything, it meant he was blocked successfully, and thus you could lie and be safe.

[Wisdom]

or even rolecopped him

He was blocked, not rolecopped. We know that for a fact.

[Wisdom]

But wait
You say I make a good point about Mala visiting DBK
That means you agree that her claim was legit
That means you also agree that my claim was legit since if you didn't you would argue "and how do we know it was Mala and it was not you?" which you don't.
That leaves your claim and MissD's claim.
Do you argue that MissD's claim that they visited Mala is fake? Or do you accept that your claim was fake?

[Wisdom]

Actually, "didn't use their ability" means "didn't use their abilty". It doesn't mean "blocked". Not sure how you are making that leap. Read the quote for what it is, not what you want it to be.

No. There is absolutely no reason that he wouldn't have used the ability, given that he doesn't lose it if blocked.
You are not stupid. You know that.
Therefore you knew he was blocked.

How do we know he was blocked and not rolecopped?

Because if he was not blocked he would have results.

[Wisdom]

And what doc crumbs are you talking about?
Mala noticed that fuzzy was playing weirdly, that means she could have easily assumed he's a PR. Hence the accurate kill.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, what makes you say I'm the "town cred type"?

Your "I told you Rach was town". It's a classic example of towncred hunting.
You're trying to do the same by bussing Mala.

[Wisdom]

Mara unvote ffs

[Wisdom]

We don't know whether or not DBK/Swords was Rb'd/Copped. For that matter we don't know how scum used their actions or even town for that matter.

WTF is this
We DO know that sword was blocked. If he wasn't blocked he would have results, did he? He didn't. He was blocked.

[Wisdom]

I don't know if Bo would/did.

Give me one fucking reason why the watcher would NOT use their ability on N1.
One.
The mod even extended the deadline for sword to catch up, so even if DBK replaced out before using it, sword definitely used it.

[Wisdom]

I was, and am pretty sure that wisdom is scum and his interactions with Rach made the most sense to me when it came to partners. I saw it as a combination of bus/deflecting the lynch from Rach yesterday.

how he tacks on to people, then does his back-off is weird and the fact that he's now trying to work with me, despite thinking I was hard-core scum yesterday doesn't vibe.

I'm thinking either Wisdom-Egg, or Wisdom-Mala but I think HD is more likely to support a Wisdom-Mala team. Either way, Wisdom is scum.

~Mara

Youre wrong!
I change my mind all the time as town, remember the Pokemon Upick? How I changed my mind about Seanald and Baby all the time? That's the case with Rach and now you here. I realized I was wrong. I am not going to continue pushing you after realising I was wrong.
Please Mala, you're wrong, don't let Egg/Mala win. It's a matter of time. Unvote.

[Wisdom]

Mara* in 915


pedit:
WHY WOULDNT HE USE IT

[Wisdom]

He

retains

it if he's blocked, tell me one reason for not using it.

[Wisdom]

I don't get it.
How will he NOT catch scum on N1? How is it different from other nights?

[Wisdom]

So what if the pool is bigger, ffs.
They get the result of EVERYONE going somewhere.
They will have info.

If they don't use it on N1 they might die and never use it.

There's no fucking way they won't use it on N1, especially since it's retained if blocked.

[Wisdom]

Anyway I'm wasting my breath here, this is a scumwin when Egg logs so I might as well

VOTE: Malakittens

[Wisdom]

MARAA damnit unvote

[Wisdom]

Mod

, I'm voting Malakittens.

Mod: My bad, i missed that.

[Wisdom]

(And Malakittens isn't voting)

Mod: yeah that's kinda where i fucked up

[Wisdom]

MARAAAA

Damn it, the worst part is she's online reading other stuff...

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE DAMNIT

[Wisdom]

Unvote for now and you can vote me later
Dont give the win to them
Its fucking obvious it's these two, did you even read my posts?
Stop tunneling, I had to reread the thread to realize I was wrong about you.
Unvote and do the same, please.

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

Im starting to think (and hope) that MissD are scum again. I do not understand why they're so stubborn and can't unvote, when their mistake loses us the game.

[Wisdom]

But I don't get it.. MissD were the first to claim a target after Rach... would they be so ballsy to lie right away? It made more sense for Egg since everyone else had claimed and the watcher was nowhere to be found; but MissD? Did they assume that the watcher was blocked right away?

Then again, like Egg said, it was better for the fuzzy-visiting scum to lie anyway, even if they didn't assume the watcher was blocked.

Fuck, I don't know anymore. If it's Mala/Egg we've lost anyway, since MissD refuses to unvote, so I guess I'll stop thinking.

[Wisdom]

If the scum didn't assume the watcher was blocked, then only the fuzzy-visiting one would lie; If both lied, the watcher would know both.
Therefore if we say that the scum didn't assume blocked watcher, then the DBK-visiting scum did claim visiting DBK. Which means Mala.

So it's either:

A: Scum assumed watcher was blocked, both lied or only the fuzzy-visiting scum lied (still just one lying is more likely)

B: Scum didn't assume watcher was blocked, only the fuzzy-visiting scum lied => Mala is scum

[Wisdom]

VOTE: Malakittens

Yeah, back to this.

With Egg or MissD, not sure anymore, but she's scum.

[Wisdom]

wtf are you talking about, MissD not only think I am scum, but they have voted me and not budging.

But more importantly, you think I am town, right?

[Wisdom]

There's no mistaking that 939 and 940 imply that you think I am town.

So if I am town, who blocked DBK, Mala?

[Wisdom]

Are you implying Egg is scum with Grimgroove, or what?

[Wisdom]

And what do you even mean "Egg kept you alive". Why would Egg or any other scum kill you over the watcher and the doctor?

[Wisdom]

Tbh Mala's reactions make me think it's Mala/MissD now. If it was Mala/Egg, she knew she would be winning this when Egg logged, and she wouldn't even have to post these. The fact she does means she didn't win yet.
Maybe we have not lost this yet after all.

[Wisdom]

Yeah and all Mala's Egg addressing and "i dont believe you didnt know its lylo" and crap like this also point more to Mala/Miss D.

I was right the first time.

Damn second guessing.

[Wisdom]

Egg I have no clue why you still think MissD is town, but yes, we can lynch Mala now.

[Wisdom]

My questions Mala, my questions

[Wisdom]

1.

Why are you so confident that scum knew who the watcher was? You don't know it could have been a lucky shot. You're basing a lot of shit on a lot of assumptions right now.

What assumptions, Mala? Lucky shot? SWORD DIDNT OUT HIS RESULTS = HE DIDNT HAVE RESULTS = SUCCESSFULL BLOCK ON N1 = THEY KILLED SWORD BECAUSE HES THE BLOCKER. There's no other option.

2.

Or I'm town and your vote on me will lose the game if the scum team are on at the same time. I still don't see how rushing a decision followed by a vote in LyLo is good practice.

Bullshit. You cannot be town. Someone blocked DBK and it wasn't me.

3.

I'm not sure, but I know I'm town.

{You, MD & Egg}

are possible scum for voting so early in LyLo. Scum want to go for a QL. I do, however, think Egg is scum. Grim has been a strong town read for mostly everyone and this is a great way for him to slide by in LyLo when everyone least suspects it.

Some scum want to go for a QL and vote, others wait passively to quickhammer. In the same way, some town are confident enough to vote right away, while others are more careful and want to discuss. Saying that someone is scum because of a quick vote is bullshit.

4.

How is 939 applying that I think you're town? You are voting me and I know I'm town and your vote should be removed. Similar to how you are begging MD to remove your vote. 940 is me suggesting Egg is scum. You can still be his partner trying to get MD or Grim to vote me for the win. I'm not applying that I think you're town in any of those posts.

No, you're trying to tell me that Egg "left you alive" because he has my support for lynching you. That means you think I am town.
Similar to how I'm begging MD - you're right, when I begged MD I was certain they're town.
Likewise you showed you're certain I'm town.

5.

Hydra heads have different views. Why are you now forgetting this? HD thinks I'm scum, but Mara thinks I'm town (at least they did last day period, but judging by Mara posts she still thinks I could be town and we haven't heard from HD yet)

HD does not even play in this game as far as I am concerned, I only see Mala. And she's already voting me. So bullcrap.

Why are you so "tunneled" on about what I think of you? You are currently panicking.

This makes no sense.
I am not tunneled on anything.
You clearly posted trying to AtE me showing that you think I am town, and now you change your story.

[Wisdom]

watcher* not blocker

[Wisdom]

@Wisdom: I don't really believe DBK was blocked night 1. That would mean that already on N1, scum would know both power roles, going for a kill and a roleblock without even bothering to rolecop someone.

I am not saying they knew DBK was the blocker on N1. That was luck on their part. But they did get both PRs.

Also, the blocker has as much reasons to lie about who he visited as the killer does, because the watcher would also see who didn't visit anyone that night, and thus who was blocked. I don't think the assumption that one of the scum didn't lie about who they visited should be taken for granted.

As Egg explained, the fuzzy-visiting scum would prefer to lie about who they visited because if they said that they visited fuzzy, we would lynch Rach and then them. If the watcher had not been blocked, he would instantly tell the town that they are lying, and thus we would lynch them; but we would still not know their partner. However if BOTH scum lied, the watcher would tell the town that they BOTH lied, and they would instantly lose the game.
Therefore it's not likely that BOTH scum lied.

[Wisdom]

LEt's do it then.

VOTE: Wisdom

lol?
It's you and Mala? Really?
Good game. I'd never guess.

[Wisdom]

gg

[Wisdom]

Awesome scumgame, Grim. I was 100% sure you're town.

Mara, no words. I even went back and changed my opinion on a tunnel, a rare thing for me, yet you couldn't do the same.

[Wisdom]

Good, now you know there's no town-Wisdom.
Happy?

[Wisdom]

Sword Of Omens chooses not to watch

WHY

[Wisdom]

/facepalm

Yeah so I apparently take back my congratulations to scum finding the PRs. They were just lucky, and sword for some reason that I will never understand did NOT watch on a night that scum didnt even use the blocker.

[Wisdom]

Well more lucky than I thought.

[Wisdom]

Better to waste their shot and give town something to know (plus it would confirm them as town), than not use their shot and risk never using it. As it happened, scum have a rolecop, they can figure out who the watcher is and then it will be too late. I really see no reason for them not to use it on N1.

[Wisdom]

Better to waste their shot and give town something to know (plus it would confirm them as town), than not use their shot and risk never using it. As it happened, scum have a rolecop, they can figure out who the watcher is and then it will be too late. I really see no reason for them not to use it on N1.

[Wisdom]

I generally agree, but Grim being alive in 3p lylo would maybe alarm me or you (whoever was left alive), like Grim said.
But yeah, most likely it wouldn't happen.