Micro 622: Queen Mafia GAME OVER

[GuiltyLion]

Hey guys, I'm ascetic.

If you target me with (non-killing) night actions they get roleblocked, so I suggest you target someone else instead.

DON'T FORGET

VOTE: Aristophanes

[GuiltyLion]

omg Postie you snipped my post to change the context, you must be scum

BNL should know all about that

[GuiltyLion]

Iprobablysuck, I thought you said you read a lot of games? You've never seen three votes in RVS on somebody before?

What are you worried about here, exactly?

[GuiltyLion]

Vote him

For the record, I didn't vote him because I didn't think his post 28 was all that scummy, instead I wanted to push things along and see if people followed up with what I was doing in a way I didn't like.

I like the things Fire Assassin is saying, but he's trying a little bit hard and TTH said the most important things first. Why did you feel compelled to say you "need more"? It's 3 pages into the game, obviously everyone needs more.

[GuiltyLion]

I actually get crap for asking stupid questions in the early game a fair amount! I think it just helps me get a beat on tone and find people making pushes that I don't like.

TTH pointing out why that her vote was serious and the subsequent explanation reads town to me. Why didn't you think it was memorable that she made the same points as you re:Ari?

[GuiltyLion]

I am also not seeing it

[GuiltyLion]

BNL tell me about why IPS is null for you?

I predict a slow D1 if Aristo isn't gonna post often

[GuiltyLion]

Oh wait he's actually on V/LA, I missed that

[GuiltyLion]

Fire, why do you think that Elyse only thinks about these types of game dynamics as scum and not as town?

[GuiltyLion]

Are you just asking questions to seem engaged in this game?
Serious question.

I gave through reasoning for my read on Elyse.
You are just trying to seem busy.

lol do you think I seem busy right now

you didn't really answer my question but Elyse basically picked it up from there so

[GuiltyLion]

Aristo/BNL feels a little too easy but I'm kinda spinning my wheels until they get here cause everyone else looks town enough

[GuiltyLion]

also I chronically scumread BNL in every game and it's kind of a problem

[GuiltyLion]

Unlesss you can do good preflip associations, they are usually not good in my experience.

[GuiltyLion]

basically I agree with what's been covered already that his 30 to 32 transition felt strange, especially 30 as "interesting" is one of the most meaningless words in the English language

but he hasn't posted at all since then so I'm stuck putting him in the "null scum" category until he towns up his slot, assuming I'm wrong.

[GuiltyLion]

BNL tell me about why IPS is null for you?

@BNL

[GuiltyLion]

It's mainly because he's new, and this makes me have a tendency to mark what he does as NAI. I'm planning to hold off reading him until after a while (~7 days into D1).

I don't think this is necessarily a scummy thing, but I also don't see how it's useful. Can you just give me some thoughts about his original Elyse push or his switch to Fire Assassin?

[GuiltyLion]

Postie, can you explain your townread on TTH?

It's a meta read that I'm probably 307% unqualified to make.

"Meta read" by itself doesn't mean anything. What things is TTH doing in this game that she only does as town?

[GuiltyLion]

or what does she do as scum that she's not doing in this game?

If you can't answer either of these questions then your meta read is worthless and possibly fake.

[GuiltyLion]

Is that what she does as scum? Based on what games?

[GuiltyLion]

If you can't answer either of these questions then your meta read is worthless

and possibly fake

.

Also woah there
Bit harsh

also, it's odd to me that you focused on "fake" being harsh here instead of "worthless". I feel like "worthless" should be more offensive to a town!Postie, since town knows by default that their reads aren't faked, but can get invested in their reads and defensive about their quality. "fake" just implies that your justification of the read is scummy.

[GuiltyLion]

Postie what's your read on Aristo?

[GuiltyLion]

It's mainly because he's new, and this makes me have a tendency to mark what he does as NAI. I'm planning to hold off reading him until after a while (~7 days into D1).

I don't think this is necessarily a scummy thing, but I also don't see how it's useful. Can you just give me some thoughts about his original Elyse push or his switch to Fire Assassin?

What are you referring to that isn't useful?

Well if you say flatly that you don't plan on reading someone for half of D1, I don't see how that helps you solve the game or help me read you.

But I think IPS slot is definitely town, and you probably are too.

[GuiltyLion]

The thing is that Bullet always does this, I have been down this road before. I probably don't want to join a Bullet wagon today, especially since Aristo is pushing it.

[GuiltyLion]

BNL: Same read, very different reasin. He's trying too hard. The case on Elyse after 2 pages is a bit much, and isn't critically thinking about her motives. His Ranger-Reads out of nowhere make no sense. His townread on Fire for his Elyse case, then backtracking on the reasoning when questioned, are bad. Plus his flip flopping seems like he's trying to find a good spot on a wagon.

Can you explain:

1) what is your read on FA given that he was the one who actually made the case
2) what makes you think Bullet isn't thinking critically about motives and why
3) what flip flopping and why is flip flopping intrinsically scum? Your last sentence feels v disingenuous to me

[GuiltyLion]

Ah actually ignore question 1, I forgot about post 51 and I see now that that's what you were referring to

[GuiltyLion]

says weird things that make him commonly scumread

tbf I have never seen his scumgame, but I have erroneously scumread him in 2/2 games I was with him as town, and used him as a lynch in another game where I was scum and he was a 3p lyncher

[GuiltyLion]

You met scumGL in college mafia, remember? I still can't believe I bullshitted out a win in LYLO in that game

[GuiltyLion]

Although I am gut townreading Aristo, ftr.

why?

Don't have much else to comment on right now, my reads have gotten relatively static.

[GuiltyLion]

I guess I will just say that Postie's approach towards her gut townread on Aristo feels different this game than her approach in Word Sneak 2, and I thought Aristo was far townier in WS2 than he is here. In WS2 she said she thought he was probably town but still pushed him on things and asked for explanations, here she's kinda just ignoring him.

[GuiltyLion]

I think it's pretty clear what they mean with regards to my opinion of your alignment

[GuiltyLion]

Postie what's your read on Aristo?

Don't have one. I agree his opening was a bit off, but not off enough for me to consider him a scumread.
I think his wagon is largely, if not completely, town-driven. Maybe there's a scum sitting on it somewhere, but I think the people actually pushing it are likely town.

When did this opinion change?

[GuiltyLion]

It'd also be easier to start a CW if Aristophanes would vote, ftr

P-EDIT: what's the alignment-indicative difference between me explicitly saying "Postie's townread on Aristo doesn't look like the last time I played with town!her and she has a townread on Aristo,

therefore I think she's scummy

" vs omitting that last part? That feels like a semantic point from you

[GuiltyLion]

Also I was asking about the town-driven wagon thing, sorry should have clarified

[GuiltyLion]

I find Aristo more over-explainy as scum than town. I'll explain why when I get on a computer in a sec.

Pretty much on the exact same page as Elyse here

Also it's frustrating that Wingback isn't posting but I found IPS very town for the newbie bravado so I'm willing to let him slide for a bit

[GuiltyLion]

Actually you know when I went back and re-ISO'd Aristophanes from College Mafia (where he was scum) vs games I've seen him as town (Word Sneak 2, ⅋, Town of Helen), I wasn't sold on his ISO in this game being as scummy as I had thought previously.

I might prefer a Postie lynch, it feels like all this argument defending her opinion about his wagon being a mislynch is coming from a place of her holding onto a need for projected consistency rather than genuine reasoning. Post 356 is particularly bad, because it requires an implicit assumption (that TTH already pointed out) of TTH thinking Aristo can only be scum with Wingback. I don't think town!Postie would automatically make that assumption, it reads to me as if she's forcing it.

VOTE: Postie
I also didn't like her accusing BNL of opportunism.

[GuiltyLion]

Part of me wanted Aristo to come to thread and post before switching wagons, but I do kinda doubt the scumread on him now that I reread some of his town ISOs. One of those things where writing up your case makes you realize it's not as good as you think it is.

[GuiltyLion]

Postie, what's the benefit to scum!BNL or scum!GL of hopping to your wagon here? Especially in my case, as I was already on a wagon that has a high chance of going through today.

Not only do I not immediately see the alleged scum!motivation for BNL's vote there, your reaction also seemed panicky as it was literally the second vote on you. When I think of opportunistic votes, I'm thinking middle-end of the wagon, not beginning of the wagon.

[GuiltyLion]

Postie, what's the benefit to scum!BNL or scum!GL of hopping to your wagon here? Especially in my case, as I was already on a wagon that has a high chance of going through today.

Not only do I not immediately see the alleged scum!motivation for BNL's vote there, your reaction also seemed panicky as it was literally the second vote on you. When I think of opportunistic votes, I'm thinking middle-end of the wagon, not beginning of the wagon.

Because his jump came instantly after duppin's. He had a townread on me and then as soon as duppin made his case he

suddenly

had all these reasons to scumread me.
Although I do feel like I'm more likely to be wrong on BNL than I am you, and TTH is being pretty bad.

GL/TTH?

You didn't answer my question. What's the

scum motivation

for BNL to backtrack on his townread and vote you, putting you at L-3? What does he gain from that?

You called it "opportunistic", I'm not seeing the opportunism.

[GuiltyLion]

^that's L-1 btw

duppin, BNL, me, TTH

[GuiltyLion]

lol are you just trying to emulate RC's scumgame

[GuiltyLion]

Ari I want your opinion on likely scum!Postie partners

[GuiltyLion]

I think almost everyone has basically agreed to her lynch, and there has been zero resistance to the wagon

I don't really agree with this, if Postie is scum then she's sunk and already at the point where anyone defending her is gonna get looked at hard when she scum flips. I'd look at people who aren't literally voting the wagon as within "plausible partner" territory.

[GuiltyLion]

Whoops I meant to quote the part about Wingback as well, I do agree there's been little resistance to a Postie lynch

[GuiltyLion]

BNL - I'm not following your question?

I'd say if Postie flips scum, then anyone who wasn't on her L-1 wagon would be possible partners. Wingback, FA, Aristo, Elyse. Which is more than "only Wingback", the thing that you said that I was replying to.

I'm not saying that I would scumread them just for that reason, but saying you're okay with a lynch and then actually voting it to make sure that it happens are two entirely different things.

[GuiltyLion]

BNL do you want me to write up the whole case I was gonna put on Aristo tending to overexaggerate as scum that I then deleted because I decided I didn't buy it as a solid scumtell? Just because I don't put a bunch of text in the thread doesn't mean my reasoning is lazy.

For the record I think Aristo is still pretty scummy, just not definite scum. Postie is definite scum.

[GuiltyLion]

Well, sorry for trying to be transparent I guess. Next time I'll naked vote so it looks more townie

[GuiltyLion]

And I resent you calling me lazy, I skimmed through like 4 Aristo ISOs

[GuiltyLion]

And I resent you calling me lazy, I skimmed through like 4 Aristo ISOs

Sorry I meant that it was easy to type that out, which didn't require much thought.

Hah it's fine, I see where you're coming from I just think you're being needlessly paranoid. My responses are tongue in cheek

[GuiltyLion]

I also do feel that Postie pushing an early counterwagon to Aristophanes makes sense for a partner to do which makes both of those scumreads stronger

This is referring to her vote on Fire Assassin, correct? Why do you call the FA vote an early counter wagon when Elyse was already an early counterwagon? Like I feel like you could make this point about Postie pushing any non-Aristophanes wagon, or any non-Postie player pushing a non-Aristophanes wagon, it doesn't actually link the two of them together (outside of hindsight if they are actually both scum).

idk I like most of the things that you've said but they feel a little

too

consistent with the current thread temperature. I'd rather flip within Postie/Aristo first though.

[GuiltyLion]

426 is super bad. As duppin pointed out, the idea that duppin and Postie are scumbuddies is ridiculous. Also Ari ruled out Fire far too easily, saying that you wouldn't "bus" him when he wasn't really ever close to being lynched.

I was hoping to see if he came close or mentioned my latent suspicion of a Postie/FA team (assuming Town!Ari) and he didn't even seem to consider it, ruling it out for an arbitrary and illogical reason. So it wasn't what I was looking for, and he's scummier for it.

[GuiltyLion]

So his post was scummy for not being logical enough and not agreeing with you enough? Do I have that right?

Yeah, pretty much

[GuiltyLion]

Oh my god I was just clicking randomly through GL's post history to find a town game to refresh my memory of what town!GL felt like... and for some reason I clicked quite a while back to a game from 2015 and just like... this is just perfect...

Biggest thing for me (that I still always try to focus on) is to think about motivation/intent, rather than transparency/clarity/effort/sometimes-even-literal-content. It's very easy to nitpick at something that someone does that you didn't understand, or that you didn't like, and assume they must be scum for it. However this is a dangerous fallacy because something is only truly scummy if doing it benefits scum more than it benefits town, if scum are more likely to do it than town would.

I really don't like this push from Postie.

First, some context - the post she quoted is from a Newbie game, where someone asked "If you could go back in time and tell yourself one thing about this game before you started playing, what would it be?". So like, from the context of the question I'm answering, it means that the "dangerous fallacy" is a pattern of thinking that I have fallen into before, or tend to fall into, because I'm literally talking about something I would tell past!me. I even say in the quote that I still always try to focus on it, because it's a mistake that's bitten me many times before.

So even if we grant Postie the point/argument that I'm doing to Aristophanes what I said not to do in this post, her argument is weakened because in context, town!me is saying this is a mistake that I should always try to avoid. That doesn't mean I'm perfect, that doesn't mean town!me will never do it.

But onto my bigger problems with her push - I don't get vibes that Postie is

genuinely

trying to discern my alignment. The way she seems so pleased to have found this apparent contradiction in my play reads as if she cares more about scoring points to show that I'm scum, rather than figure out the Capital-T Truth of who is scum in this game.

Finally, she's ignoring evidence that I'm in town!scumhunting mode in this very game! I specifically asked her this question, MULTIPLE TIMES:

Postie, what's the benefit to scum!BNL or scum!GL of hopping to your wagon here? Especially in my case, as I was already on a wagon that has a high chance of going through today.

Not only do I not immediately see the alleged scum!motivation for BNL's vote there, your reaction also seemed panicky as it was literally the second vote on you. When I think of opportunistic votes, I'm thinking middle-end of the wagon, not beginning of the wagon.

You didn't answer my question. What's the

scum motivation

for BNL to backtrack on his townread and vote you, putting you at L-3? What does he gain from that?

You called it "opportunistic", I'm not seeing the opportunism.

Look at me trying to ask her about BNL's motivations for his play. Now we have two data points, one where I'm doing what I said I shouldn't do, and one where I'm doing what I said I should try to focus on.

[GuiltyLion]

I'd much rather lynch Aristophanes than Postie today. I think they make sense as a team but imo, I can't see Postie's buddy being anyone but Aristophanes, whereas Aristophanes makes more sense with other people.

I can get behind this. I will vote either Postie or Aristophanes, let's just consolidate on one before we get up to a deadline crunch.

[GuiltyLion]

I strongly oppose any assertion that anyone not playing to their typical towngame is likely scum because of it. Playstyles can vary from game to game.

I want GuiltyLion lynched today for what I highlighted in 445;

GL is playing directly contrary to how he

knows

he should be playing the game as town.

Also, Postie - why is your bolded here different than what you said in 435? Because I'm sitting here seeing you saying Aristophanes is not scum for not playing to his towngame, and then saying I am scum for not playing to something I said I should do as town.

[GuiltyLion]

pretty sure that was actually a hammer

I plan on rereading over night, but

if Postie flips scum

I would guess her partner is in {Aristophanes, Fire Assassin, Elyse}.

If Postie flips town

then I'm mostly working from the same pool, only I think Elyse is probably townier and it would make Aristophanes

more likely

to be scum for:
1) possible intentional hammer on a mislynch while faking ignorance of the hammer
2) means Postie wasn't WKing the slot

also, a reminder in twilight that

I am ascetic

, so don't target me with anything if you don't want it roleblocked

[GuiltyLion]

actually if Postie flips town then Wingback definitely needs to be considered, but Aristophanes would in any case still be scumread #1

[GuiltyLion]

The fact that GL didn't call out Aristo for his awful hammer feels pretty bad too.

???

I explicitly said if you flip town, Ari was scumread #1

Let's not misrep me, thanks.

[GuiltyLion]

we'll discuss this tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

I didn't miss anything. We're gonna be chatting postgame

[GuiltyLion]

like seriously the whole reason I lynched you instead of Ari was because you defended him from his wagon in a very anti-town way

[GuiltyLion]

anyway I think BNL/FA/Wingback would be most likely Ari partners, but we'll discuss tomorrow! FA's twilight posting has been terrible

[GuiltyLion]

[GuiltyLion]

well I'm not, so now that tell is 1 for 2.

[GuiltyLion]

and enjoy your spoilers in the Dead Thread!

[GuiltyLion]

Wingback, what was your reason for townreading Fire again? He was never on Postie, ever.

[GuiltyLion]

don't you tell me who to nightkill

[GuiltyLion]

actually given the twilight posting alone I'm leaning very strongly towards Ari-Wingback team. Fire would be my wildcard insurance pick if I'm wrong about Wingback, but 513 may be a bonafide scumslip.

[GuiltyLion]

His reasoning about Fire being town applies to BNL, not Fire. Fire never pushed for your lynch. It's within the realm of possibility that he just completely flipped the two players in his head, but he did it throughout the post (instead of just in one sentence).

It's hard for me to imagine a town player genuinely reasoning about everyone's alignment making such a mistake. But I also feel like scum shouldn't be so careless either, so I'm not 100% certain. I would have appreciated a response from him while he was here but it doesn't look like we'll get that before threadlock.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm not pretending, but nice, take some more shots at me

[GuiltyLion]

hmmmm

okay so I guess one other question for you is you had me as "town, no question about it" in 485, why did that read change? Like I feel like your read on me soured arbitrarily very quickly as soon as Postie was hammered, and you've replaced it with a hard townread on Fire, when I don't fully buy the reason.

[GuiltyLion]

some of that may just be a disagreement in whether scum!Firebringer votes scum!Aristophanes there, though. For me I could very easily see him doing it, it wasn't exactly a hard bus, and Fire does play unconventionally sometimes

I'll think about BNL some more but I'm struggling to think that scum!BNL would so openly and brazenly attempt to wash his hands of a Postie mislynch.

[GuiltyLion]

Okay, so the problem is that, while I do agree that Postie is scummy and has still been acting scummy,

there is too much support for her lynch

, to the extent that lynching Postie seems too easy, trappish, etc.

I do think that it is plausible that Postie is scum with someone that I would like to hide for now (no, not Wingback, I know I said that earlier but that's changed), but otherwise think Postie is a mislynch.

Or is being bussed. I actually haven't considered that thoroughly, I should probably find some potential bussers now.

tl;dr Postie is scummy but I have really bad feelings about the lynch.

I just don't know whether scum!BNL is ballsy enough to make this post, I'm leaning no

[GuiltyLion]

but your explanation was half bullshit, so...?

[GuiltyLion]

If I were scum with Postie, I would be bussing the hell out of her so if he had suspicions of me, I don't see why it should be contingent on Postie flipping town

like also here you're saying if you were scum, you would bus your partner, but then your townreads are based on this foundational assumption that scum wouldn't bus their partner Aristophanes

[GuiltyLion]

That's completely different from Fire Assasin deciding that he doesn't want the guaranteed Postie mislynch and instead deciding the kickstart a wagon on his partner Aristo.

But what if FA knows that Ari will almost certainly be lynched on D2 or D3, and therefore he has to have a plausible trail of scumread throughout the game? Much like you couldn't get away with not-bussing scum!Postie hypothetically, he can't exactly defend Ari and push elsewhere either, especially if he's already been projecting a Postie townread.

I can see us both being town here but I really want to dig at this because if scum!Ari and town!Wingback then I think FA is scum.

[GuiltyLion]

I don't see how 499 "reeks of knowing that she was a mislynch", I wanted to just made sure I left a pool of my scumreads before threadlock in case of either flip.

And I guess I don't agree with you that scum!Wingback absolutely had to bus scum!Postie there, FMPOV you could have just as easily jumped on the Aristophanes wagon and I probably wouldn't have raised an eyebrow at it. I thought Aris seemed much more like cornered partner than you did, because he can't vote himself so he exclusively just focused her whenever he was here. I thought Elyse and FA were both being avoidant of the wagon and I would have been inclined to examine them before you on a scum!Postie flip

[GuiltyLion]

I am online.

We'll discuss tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

Like BNL your question is really busybee now that I think about it - I'm literally saying "hey let's talk about this tomorrow" and your post is like "I want you to explain that tomorrow!". Uh, duh, that's what I said.

[GuiltyLion]

Well, too bad

[GuiltyLion]

I'm a vig, I shot Aristo

FA kill is odd to me, makes me think there's scum in the neighborhood or scum is very commonly townread. I'm probably game for a BNL lynch today, if that doesn't end it I'm happy to hear opinions on who I should shoot. Wingback felt very town to me in twilight and everyone else pushed on Aristophanes in a mostly convincing manner. If TTH or Elyse is scum then we're in for a rough go

[GuiltyLion]

pretty sure that was actually a hammer

I plan on rereading over night, but

if Postie flips scum

I would guess her partner is in {Aristophanes, Fire Assassin, Elyse}.

If Postie flips town

then I'm mostly working from the same pool, only I think Elyse is probably townier and it would make Aristophanes

more likely

to be scum for:
1) possible intentional hammer on a mislynch while faking ignorance of the hammer
2) means Postie wasn't WKing the slot

also, a reminder in twilight that

I am ascetic

, so don't target me with anything if you don't want it roleblocked

actually if Postie flips town then Wingback definitely needs to be considered, but Aristophanes would in any case still be scumread #1

also I realize that these posts felt clunky but the point was to leave a trail of people I was thinking about shooting. Once Postie confirmed she was town there was no way I wasn't gonna shoot Aristo.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm ascetic vig lol

Since there's no way to convince you that I'm not SK (since if I were SK, I would play this exact way), why don't you tell me who you think Aristo's partner is first. Trivially it can't be me. I know there's no serial killer, so if we lynch the other scum today we win.

[GuiltyLion]

Oh sick I didn't even realize it was confirmed 7:2

#conftown

[GuiltyLion]

why would you ask conftown that question?

[GuiltyLion]

eh yeah I can get behind that, I keep wanting to scumread BNL for his occasional bad posting but like I said before it's a chronic issue with me and him

[GuiltyLion]

one of these days scum!BNL is gonna wipe the floor with me I just know it

[GuiltyLion]

okay so it seems like no one is opposed to a Wingback lynch, how much more do we need to discuss today? I'll probably shoot BNL if Wingback is town but that's by virtue of everyone else looking

even more

town

[GuiltyLion]

IMO TTH is more likely to be scum than Elyse is

[GuiltyLion]

Not that I really think either are scum, but, y'know

[GuiltyLion]

Why? The one issue I have with TTH is lack of engagement. She was online yesterday but didn't weigh in or analyze the game and I thought her one post was pretty weak but if she is scum, she's played very well early on in the game.

Post 586. I think it's more likely that scum!TTH makes this post about town!Elyse than town!TTH makes this post about scum!Elyse.

Also Elyse was consistent in pushing Aristo during the mid-D1 lull period, TTH jumped ship for Postie.

[GuiltyLion]

hah TTH I totally saw the result soft

Hence why I said you were more scum than Elyse

Town feels a little OP but yeah let's lynch Wingback and then I'll shoot BNL tonight if Wingback flips town. If somehow that doesn't end it then it'll be a LYLO decision between duppin/TTH, hopefully I would get killed so it would be Elyse that has to deal with it

[GuiltyLion]

also I'm not really sure what BNL is getting at in his last post so I would like him to say something before I vote, but if he somehow survives on a Wingback town flip then he's autolynch tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Wingback

[GuiltyLion]

did you read what I posted?

also I'm not really sure what BNL is getting at in his last post so I would like him to say something before I vote, but if he somehow survives on a Wingback town flip then he's autolynch tomorrow

[GuiltyLion]

I'm conftown, you're conftown, TTH is claiming neapolitan which feels believable

Aristo flipped scum, BNL and Wingback were the most dodgy regarding his slot. I will shoot whichever one of them we don't flip tonight.

Only other player left is duppin who is playing a great game if he's scum, he feels super town. If it's not BNL/Wingback then LYLO will be TTH/duppin/either-you-or-me

Therefore there's some apathy as it's highly likely game ends either this day/night phase.

[GuiltyLion]

Wingback I guess I just dc cause I'll shoot BNL tonight if you flip town and if he somehow evades that, then town has to lynch him tomorrow

It doesn't matter to me which of you gets lynched first, I'm not sure why you're pushing it so hard. Like I can vote him if you want but it ultimately shouldn't make a difference

[GuiltyLion]

I'm fine with that though I still think Wingback is the scum

[GuiltyLion]

For now, yeah. If one of them is scum then my heart goes out to whichever of us has to figure that out in LYLO

I agree Wingback's effort is unusual, but I'm thinking it's probably like a point of pride for him. "At least I got one more mislynch" or something like that. He said himself that he hates when people roll over and accept their lynch, and I could see that being genuine and applying to either alignment.

[GuiltyLion]

hmm Wingback you look a lot more town when you're not being bellig

[GuiltyLion]

And I did think your back and forth with me in Twilight about FA and Elyse was townie

UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

fuck I finally actually read/thought about Wingback's case in 649 and I kinda like it tbh

VOTE: BNL

serra I'll switch over if you change your mind

[GuiltyLion]

also I did originally townread IPS so I'm gonna fallback to that read

[GuiltyLion]

Thanks UTL and RC for modding

Well played TTH, you had me fooled! Serra no hard feelings at all about getting LYLO wrong, I was so glad I wasn't in your shoes. I guess the fact that I could see myself alternatively townreading BNL and Wingback during D2 should have made me do a full reassess, instead of just assuming I must be wrong about one of them.

@Elyse - hahaha wow that's annoying. I enjoyed the absurdity of him (being a newbie) sarcastically insulting your play but it sucks that he was actually serious about it and ruined your game as a result. Thanks for respecting the game enough to let the mods know

also I definitely thought this game was balanced but I was super relieved to see that it was actually confirmed 7:2. I think it would have been much tougher for me (and town as a result) if we didn't have that piece of information, as I thought my role was basically designed around being a pretender SK.

[GuiltyLion]

for me mainly it was cause you were townreading my scumread in such a way that I figured either you were partners or you were WKing a scummy-looking town slot. Also I was TRing BNL/TTH and I knew I was town so I couldn't really vibe with any of your scumreads.

I might have been more open-minded if I wasn't sitting on a vig shot, I was fairly confident I would shoot Ari regardless of your flip so the choice of either wagon didn't matter too much to me by the end of the day.

[GuiltyLion]

that said I definitely should have looked over your interactions with TTH after you flipped town