Micro 647: True Love - Game Over

[Leonshade]

Other half of the Cowardly Lion reporting in! I would've RVSed for Infinity, since he's the only one I've been in a finished game with, but Double S makes good points about the setup.

[Leonshade]

[Leonshade]

No, I wasn't going to...

I just want to know, was Leon's the first comment that seemed unnecessary and unproductive?

The first one that seemed to be under the guise of doing stuff I think. Everyone else that posted had made at least one productive comment right?

You think I made up that side comment I wasn't going to push why? I could've just ignored leon's post.

Ooooh... maybe it was under the guise of doing stuff

I don't have any real reads, by the way. I'm just poking and prodding to find stuff to talk about.

It was more along the lines of, inb4 I get attacked for my nonexistent push on you.

I don't know, "It's too early", "you're latching onto something that's not a scumtell", "you're looking for things to push on", "you're reaching to call him scum for weak reasons"

Bae, I don't like your posts

Why do you feel the need to defend yourself before anyone has called you out on anything?

[Leonshade]

@Leon: I'm making my intentions clear now so that it doesn't seem as though I'm changing my story. I get reads and apply pressure through rapid back-and-forths and I often adopt an aggressive mindset of probing for weaknesses; however, that doesn't mean that I necessarily scumread the person in question.

But you pressured Infinity, then quickly let go of the pressure by saying that you're not scumreading anyone. The town priority is the pressure, not evading suspicion.

[Leonshade]

Before my post, Inf was the only one on this page contributing to the game.

[Leonshade]

Before my post, Inf was the only one on this page contributing to the game.

What's the point of this post?

To point out that Infinity is doing stuff while everyone else is posting fluff (though my post does come across as dick-ish now that I read it again).

I'm not reading Gamma's fluff as AI.

@Tenshii:

Why are you voting Gamma over SS?

[Leonshade]

It was a comment on your alignment (leaning town) and a prod to everyone else.

[Leonshade]

@Wisdom:

You said there's four people scummier than Gamma. So far, I count Tenshii, Creature and me, who's the fourth?

[Leonshade]

I'm trying to figure out Tenshii and Wisdom at the moment, I like your push on Wisdom though.

[Leonshade]

I thought ASP hadn't posted yet, but he did do an RVS on me.

[Leonshade]

I don't think a scum Gamma would go after his Lover.

Gonna read up on Wisdom's scum games.

[Leonshade]

Wisdom's play here isn't similar to his last few scum games, he seems to care more about appearing town in his recent scum games than in this game. (I read Micro 581, Mini 1637 and one other Pokemon game).

I'm conflicted, as I don't like Wisdom's reluctance to communicate and unwillingness to elaborate on his points, but overall I'm not getting a scum vibe from him. As Gamma pointed out, scumreading someone from every other pair seems a bit too convenient, but if you scumread half the players, it's not much of a stretch. Not interested in a Wisdom lynch right now.

Don't have a read on Tenshii yet. I'd like to see more from the less active players.

[Leonshade]

I'm feeling town!creature here. Mainly cause he's talking to me more in private than in public, scum would just keep their private thoughts secret.

Yeah, that doesn't sound (exclusively) town to me. I prefer to voice my thoughts in public if I'm gonna voice them, especially early when I don't know who to trust yet.

[Leonshade]

Spoiler: long Inf quote

Wisdom's play here isn't similar to his last few scum games, he seems to care more about appearing town in his recent scum games than in this game. (I read Micro 581, Mini 1637 and one other Pokemon game).

I'm conflicted, as I don't like Wisdom's reluctance to communicate and unwillingness to elaborate on his points, but overall I'm not getting a scum vibe from him. As Gamma pointed out, scumreading someone from every other pair seems a bit too convenient, but if you scumread half the players, it's not much of a stretch. Not interested in a Wisdom lynch right now.

Don't have a read on Tenshii yet. I'd like to see more from the less active players.

What do you think about wisdom's defense of gamma/my reasoning in 148

"He's 16" is a BS defense, but I see that more as playstyle than scummy.

[Leonshade]

His reasons for scumreading Gamma were bad, but the way he elaborated/explained his views makes me think he really believes that fluff/unproductivity is scummy, so I don't think he was just looking for an easy target to push. I don't hate his push on you, either. Nothing town, though, and I'm leaning on Tenshii/ASP having one scum in it through POE.

Reading Gamma/Wisdom as a Town pair. I'm not seeing what Wisdom and someone else read as towny from Creature. Not sure on S_S, but I don't think his defensiveness was scummy.

[Leonshade]

Sure.

VOTE: Tenshii

[Leonshade]

s_s, do you have any reads now other than wisdom?

Creature town, Gamma town, Tenshii scum, and you as

town or scum (but definitely not null)

.

What's the difference?

I'd like you to explain the Creature town read, too.

[Leonshade]

I'm conflicted, as

I don't like Wisdom's reluctance to communicate and unwillingness to elaborate on his points,

but overall I'm not getting a scum vibe from him.

So despite the bold, you FEEL that he's not scum?

I don't see scum motivation in his behavior. Reads are often part gut-feeling, especially early on. How do you feel about my vote on you?

[Leonshade]

You gotta play to win, Wisdom's playstyle may have traits that would benefit a scum game but that doesn't mean that he got a scum role PM. I'm not reading Wisdom as scum overall right now, so the fact that you might call something he does scummy doesn't matter at the moment.

[Leonshade]

That's a general you, as in "the fact that one might call something he does scummy doesn't matter at the moment".

[Leonshade]

I'm not reading Wisdom as scum overall right now, so the fact that you might call something he does scummy doesn't matter at the moment.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Even with the correction.

Town can

look

scummy too, so the fact that Wisdom has traits that

look

scummy doesn't mean that he's scum. I don't think that Wisdom is scum, so him doing something that

looks

scummy doesn't matter. If my read on Wisdom changes, I might view his play through different lenses, but at the moment I'm leaning town on him.

Wisdom's playstyle has one big downside for scum: it draws negative attention to himself. I think he'd be trying to look town more if he was scum

Okay, and the negative attention happens because? And who would care about looking town when you can get away with a playstyle like that.

Wisdom drew more negative attention on himself while he had suspicion and the start of a wagon against him, which is behavior more likely to come from town than scum.

[Leonshade]

@Gamma:

Why do you see me as Tenshii's buddy?

[Leonshade]

I was pointing out that reads change, and only because I was asked for clarification.

[Leonshade]

So do you actually scumread Tenshii? You've townread him before.

[Leonshade]

I don't see the point in pressuring ASP to talk while he's on V/LA.

[Leonshade]

A lot happened all of a sudden. My weak vote on Tenshii is outdated now, I don't see him as likely scum.

UNVOTE: Tenshii

@Infinity:

What's your case on S_S?

[Leonshade]

Tenshii went to L-1 and I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from him.

@Inf:

If Gamma is your #1 SR, why are you voting S_S?

[Leonshade]

Tenshii went to L-1 and I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from him.

Then why did you vote him?

PoE, I felt that the Tenshii/ASP pair was the best option at the time. I didn't have any strong scumreads and I thought/think that you/Gamma is a town pair.

[Leonshade]

So I didn't like Creature putting Tenshii at L-1 as a "pressure vote" without a read, and now the last few pages of Infinity's posting have happened. I have difficulty reading Inf, but he looks like he's flailing around at the moment, and not in the way a townie would. Demanding Gamma to figure out a likely scumbuddy for Inf really strikes me as a scummy defense too. It's a stalling tactic, it's trying to get players to ignore Inf's scummy behavior, and Inf busted it out when Gamma was only the second player to vote for him, so Inf seems really scared of a wagon forming on him. I don't like Creature either, so this is the pair I'd prefer to see flip.

VOTE: Infinity

That's L-1.

[Leonshade]

This game is so stuck

VOTE: Tenshii

L-1

It should make ASP and Tenshii talk more.

So do you actually scumread Tenshii? You've townread him before.

No.

Joining the wagon without having to take responsibility for it. "Should make ASP talk more" when he's on V/LA.

[Leonshade]

Good thing I'm not saying that, I'm saying it's one or the other.

[Leonshade]

Either S_S or ASP. As long as we don't lynch Wisdom/Gamma, we should win no matter what.

[Leonshade]

If one of Inf/Creature flips scum, I'll be tomorrow's lynch. You can hold me to that.

[Leonshade]

We should really wait for ASP's and tenshii's opinions on this.

Also, does anyone townread the leon/s_s pair? Given how willing creature is to sacrifice himself you have to be really sure to lynch us fypov.

Stalling.

[Leonshade]

We should really wait for ASP's and tenshii's opinions on this.

Also, does anyone townread the leon/s_s pair? Given how willing creature is to sacrifice himself you have to be really sure to lynch us fypov.

Stalling.

Lol you think ending the day with one person barely having posted at all and another not having commented on a significant chunk of the thread is a good thing?

I always like to use all the time we have (and I'd probably fake that as scum too).

You tried to present your self-serving stalling tactic as some objective pro-town thing. I don't think arbitrarily waiting until deadline is useful, it just stalls games out and causes people to lose interest in the game. I'm not interested in waiting for ASP to come back when we are ready to lynch, that's just going to stall the game out with no town benefit.

I'm not in a rush to lynch, and I'm not opposed to waiting for Tenshii if S_S doesn't want to hammer yet, but I saw scummy behavior so I pointed it out.

[Leonshade]

@Inf:

Town wouldn't want a mislynch at all, let alone a rushed one, but I was lynched by the way you presented the idea of waiting for ASP and Tenshii.

Also I didn't notice this before but Inf seems to have switched from a nominal SR on creature in his reads list to soft-TRing him in 507 now that there's a wagon on Inf. Convenient.

[Leonshade]

@Inf:

Town wouldn't want a mislynch at all, let alone a rushed one, but I was lynched by the way you presented the idea of waiting for ASP and Tenshii.

Also I didn't notice this before but Inf seems to have switched from a nominal SR on creature in his reads list to soft-TRing him in 507 now that there's a wagon on Inf. Convenient.

What's the significance of this?

Infinity went from having Creature as a weak SR, to saying this:

We should really wait for ASP's and tenshii's opinions on this. Also, does anyone townread the leon/s_s pair?

Given how willing creature is to sacrifice himself you have to be really sure to lynch us fypov.

So I think Inf SR'd his Lover for towncred, then TR'd him as a defence when a wagon formed on him. Part confbias, but the sudden shift and the tone make me confident I'm right.

[Leonshade]

We hit scum, gonna hold my end of the deal.

VOTE: Leonshade

[Leonshade]

We win by not lynching Wisdom/Gamma so the order we lynch in doesn't really matter.

VOTE: Tenshii

[Leonshade]

Haha, the most flawed flawless town victory!

[Leonshade]

I would post a video of the Final Fantasy 6 victory theme looped, but I forgot how.

This will do.

http://www.infinitelooper.com/?v=HYCfjxVgBjQ&p=n

[Leonshade]

Yeah, you can release our Lover PT.