[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Undefined array key 8711459 [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Trying to access array offset on value of type null Micro 675: Heroes of the Storm uPick - Game Over! - Mafiascum.net
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Post #19 (isolation #4) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:14 am
Postby borkjerfkin »
I'd probably hold off for now; I think certain heroes are probably going to be obviously pigeonholed into certain archetypes more than others (jaina comes to mind), and I think it's going to give scum a good sounding board at night for figuring probability of hitting stronger vs weaker PRs or PRs of a certain type vs the (imo low) ROI of forcing someone to have to stretch farther lorewise to make the fakeclaim they want to make.
There's also no going back if we do it now, whereas the reverse is not true.
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Post #61 (isolation #16) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:56 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
He might, but he was under essentially zero pressure (other than a really light 36 callout) at the point that he told me to vacate the thread, which leads me to believe he was legitimately more concerned about ensnaring someone at that time than having an escape route that I'd just gift him.
I mean [anyone] might be mafia pretending to [do thing i think is town] so that i'll townread them; that's not really a helpful way to approach the game
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Post #63 (isolation #17) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:01 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 57, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:I bet Syryana was trying to get Charloux quicklynched on a reason that only looks good!!! Mafia like hiding behind FAKE reasons to attack people cos they know if the reason sounds good they can vote innocent townies and noone will know!
Is this a posting schtick btw? Like you're trying to be a character?
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Post #72 (isolation #21) » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:05 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 69, The Oxford Bubbles wrote:f you know that 36 meant he was trying to trap someone, wouldn't the peoples he was trying to trap know too?
the quality of the trap isn't relevant; the intent is.
bubbles wrote:Aaaand, since he voted dunn, that must've mean dunn fell into his trap! But if that was the case he'd yell at dunn and go "you did this and fell into my trap, so you're mafia!" but he had no explanation at all.
that he didn't give one doesn't mean he doesn't have one; people decide not to be super transparent all the time. But you're right, only he can explain that.
bubbles wrote:The way I see it, 34 makes suuper obvious that dunn thought anyone who bought into the charloux wagon was a bad person, so I'd think 39 was just a sneaky little get outta jail free in case Dunn went "hey, Sy!! you were on the scummy make-a-big-deal charloux wagon too!!"
I believe that you genuinely believe this and am keeping the possibility of it in my mind; dollars to donuts I just don't agree.
p-edit: yep. townread stays. you might even have a point on dunn.
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Post #108 (isolation #29) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:34 am
Postby borkjerfkin »
Town:
syr
TOB
possibly charloux
possibly dunn (haven't really explained this one, but I'll give him a 'just left of center' townread for being sensible about 'us-gate', and syr's comments about him are not in play due to his softclaim about votes)
Cause it's like the most obtuse way to interpret what Charloux said possible
And why's Syr town? Even if ya buy his train of thought about moving the game in a direction, that doesn't mean he's town!!! He could be scum having that same train of thought!!! Just 'cos his direction's plausible doesn't mean he's more town... after all, scum likes to push the game in lotsa ways too!!!!
Not really willing to rehash what I said earlier; I hope your points here sound as confbiasy to you as they do to me
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Post #116 (isolation #32) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:31 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
Then we're at an impasse because, as I've said, I disagree, and I don't see anything that is making me reconsider.
I don't know you're quantifying "safe/controlled" (i actually think his play looks not really like that) or how that translates to scum motivation here.
Explain why you don't think they look genuine, because that's actually germane to an alignment discussion.
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Post #117 (isolation #33) » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:35 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
Like we were in RVS at that point and you yourself jumped on that wagon right after he did (for reasons I found fine even if I think the premise of the argument sucks ass)
After getting a read he felt good about from things that happened during it. I agree it would have been more effective to wait for SxN to post. I still don't think that matters.
The bottom line is, he did a thing, immediately signaled that it was a test, and backed it up well enough in 71 that I believe that was legitimately his intent. I understand that you or another head of yours don't think that's compelling evidence that he's town -- noted, and as such I think we have to agree to disagree with the info we currently have and promise to reevaluate later while moving on from this before people start tuning out the game. Any other reads right now?
This post made me feel a little uneasy; if I am interpreting it correctly with the brackets where I have them (am I???), it's positing a level of confidence in SxN being scum that I don't think a townie should have right now. Templered that it is possibly playstyle (like I'd never accuse someone like Katsuki of being scum for doing shit like this)
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Post #136 (isolation #39) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:48 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
FWIW I was hoping for more of an NS presence early game -- I find him easier to read than you (I don't feel that I've ever really had a game where I was super wrong about him)
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Post #140 (isolation #40) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:51 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 136, borkjerfkin wrote:FWIW I was hoping for more of an NS presence early game -- I find him easier to read than you (I don't feel that I've ever really had a game where I was super wrong about him)
And to clarify, i am not scumreading him for not being here (although what he has posted has been pretty banal) just wish he was.
the way he reached out to me specifically as if i was in danger of dissecting the issue too much before people talked about it fully. I don't think scum would have cared if i did that.
I don't feel that 71 feels like a backpedal because people didn't like him jumping on the wagon, it feels like an earnest mindset.
I don't know how to better explain it. A lot of people seem to want to shoot down this townread without doing anything other than replace it with nothing substantial.
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Post #148 (isolation #43) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:03 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:second, Charl is town. I don't think 87 comes from scum, and beyond that I'm fine with his posts in general. I pretty obviously disagree with notty's read here; ideally I'd let him handle it himself, but if he continues not to be here poke me again and I can talk more about it.
I think you should talk more about it; 87 is, by his own admission, not a legitimate claim. Why is this a slam dunk town post for you?
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Post #150 (isolation #44) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:12 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 138, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I generally agree that his posts aren't scummy, and that his opening was either a legitimate reaction test or him feigning a reaction test, but I don't know if I see why the way he did it is more likely the former than the latter. can you walk me through it in more depth?
I'm not a huge fan of the "I don't think his posts are scummy" followed by this "let's dissect this townread because I think it should be null" -- especially since it's the main thing you reached out to me about; the only reason that should be your highest priority here is if my worldview on syr really clashed with yours (it doesn't), or if it were an attempt to read
me
(it doesn't seem to be)
Whereas I think at least one head of TOB does think Syr is scum and is challenging me because of that
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Post #154 (isolation #46) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:28 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 151, Seiko x Naomi wrote:I don't agree with this. I think he'd be more than aware that he couldn't just make up a "reaction test" without following through and actually treating it like one.
I don't think scum faking a reaction test would have been savvy enough to realize that I was in the process of ruining it and get indignant about it.
If you think I'm not giving scum!syr enough credit then so be it. I find that I'm not really interested in defending this read to the death right now; a lot of it is a gutshot and I have nothing other than what I have presented.
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Post #157 (isolation #48) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:32 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 154, borkjerfkin wrote:I don't think scum faking a reaction test would have been savvy enough to realize that I was in the process of ruining it and get indignant about it.
Eh maybe I'm confbiasing with this I'm not even sure I believe that.
I have a gut read based on what I perceive to be a real thought process.
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Post #166 (isolation #55) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:36 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:first things first, I don't think bork is scum. I could easily be wrong on this since I have misread him very badly in the past, but in general I think the most apparent tell with him is that when he's scum a lot of his posts and reads are just really flat and going-through-the-motions and I don't see that here (the read on Syr falls in pretty direct contrast to it). I also think that most of the more subtle things he's posting about are pretty reasonable, i.e. 120 about Dunn. I will likely revisit this if I have reason to question it later.
I keep coming back to this and I really wish I had something more contemporary to compare to than viscon: crossroads with a me-town you-scum arrangement re: how scum you would open against me.
Wish we didn't have 3 slots burning a hole in the game.
TOB is the only read I really wanna take to the bank right now.
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Post #167 (isolation #56) » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:52 pm
Postby borkjerfkin »
In post 132, Seiko x Naomi wrote:TOB's push on Syr is terrible, but I am not sure that it is terrible in a scummy way. I want an explanation for their town read on OA, though.
I don't have any town read on Dunn; I don't have any issues with the bulk of his push on us (save potentially the post bork pointed out), but it's nowhere near unfakeable.
AJ's 128 is really underwhelming and since notty seems to be gone/not have a vote down I'm going ahead and voting here.
Yeah ultimately I think this is all just kind of a bunch of "hey look I'm scumhunting" when actually it's not saying anything useful or attempting to get past the fact that it doesn't draw any salient conclusions.