Micro 677: Double Day Unlimited in Wifom City - Town Win

[Hiraki]

confirm and egoposting

ps i enjoy that the scumrole PM utilizes the word "scumfuck"

[Hiraki]

It looks like your posting that stuff to just look busy

It's page 2 - though I'm not going to say your vote is useless either.

This accusation is vaguely scummy imo

Niceu niceu caesar-chan

The way I saw it Nyd is overanalysing and just posting numbers that I thought didn't mean much.

I hate this - not prone to an Alisae lynch now tbh.

Plus pressuring them right now isn't a bad thing to do...

I would have forgiven you more if this was your reason for that vote.

I'm ok with the Alisae lynch. That was my main SR. Just wouldn't have liked it to go that fast and would've liked more reactions.

@NYD: we are using the second lynch. In the wiki, this game has been played 6 times and no one has contemplated using the NL (I read the lynches for all of those games) - I see no reason to follow another order, even if the stats are in mafia favor (this is mostly due to skill rather than planning)

[Hiraki]

I'm guessing because he stated the problem without voting.

@NYD: It's hard to judge. Guilty is my biggest FoS but this lynch was just really bad because of a lack of reactions. It's as much as a big FoS as I had on Alisae which was worth a vote but not a quicklynch.

While you usually justify townhammers that are done on accident, it's hard to justify one that's like this.

[Hiraki]

Can you explain what you mean?

[Hiraki]

Need more opinions from the the people have spoken less.

@Alisae: I think we meant the same thing in different terms.

Vote: GuiltyLion

[Hiraki]

I feel very uneasy for NM - you can understand, right?

[Hiraki]

I feel very uneasy for NM - you can understand, right?

also I don't really like the way this question is directed - instead of pushing on Tier's motives, you're asking him to consider your own. why?

To...make him consider the situation?

Why do I need to push on Tier's motives? I'm very confused on what this post implies.

I feel very uneasy for NM - you can understand, right?

No. Talk to me about it.

I get that NM would be able to do it as a real move but I can also see him popping into the thread right after it starts and voting everyone.

Is it stupid? Yes.
Scummy? Yup.
Do I think it will reasonably produce scum? I'm not 100% sure. I think I would've done it too.

Need more opinions from the the people have spoken less.

@Alisae: I think we meant the same thing in different terms.

Vote: GuiltyLion

can you remind me why you think I'm scum again

49

[Hiraki]

I expect you to scumhunt, and that question doesn't look like you're doing it. What were you hoping to gain from that question?

Sorry I'm not meeting your standards but I reasoned my own. I'm not continuing this line of questioning further if you're just going to set standards for me.

This isn't an answer. Why is 49 a scummy post?

Honestly Hiraki the way I see it, I think the person who tries to justify it the most is probably scum since I think scum like to see who has a justified vote in this case.

We agreed in different manners.

[Hiraki]

So you can't give a good reason for why you posted what you posted?

No, I cannot give you a reason that will satisfy your master scumhunting skills. I've given you a reason, you just haven't accepted it.

I don't follow. Alisae is talking about people who like to justify their votes. I didn't make a vote.

Like when you push a slip, it's not a read anymore. It becomes fact. A is True therefore B is true.

This is

literally

what Alisae warned. I'm glad you didn't read it.

So what exactly is your accusation, that I "over justified" my non-vote?

Correct - you had someone who was scummy and you decided not to vote.

Why do you think 49 reads like scum over-explaining a read rather than town explaining their thought process?

Because you did not vote.

[Hiraki]

An early D-1? It was Page 2!

[Hiraki]

In re-visitation, I'm willing to accept that. I thought the RVS voting really commenced on the next page but I now see that 3 votes were placed prior.

Unvote: All

[Hiraki]

Talk with me here Lycan - I don't mean to overdefend but I'm just not sure and NM isn't making it easier for me to do so either.

Let's say NM is scum - what's his endgame? Get a quick lynch today - hope some dumb townie starts defending him? Any lynch is better than no lynch?

I would love to vote NM and see him flip - I just don't see that happening though.

[Hiraki]

While I appreciate the investigative effort Lycan, this has been discussed to hell and back - even in this short game. Would like a little bit more meat on that vote though.

[Hiraki]

I don't like any of the arguments presented. Will be re-reading.

[Hiraki]

I don't like any of the arguments presented. Will be re-reading.

I kind of agree in light of NM's meta of being nonexistent as either alignment...

I mean in favor of a vote.

[Hiraki]

@Mod: Should I be reading into the second part of that information stuff? Additionally, in Post 167 I unvoted all.

It's 1:40 drunkposting - don't expect anything good until maybe this evening. I would like to make this game a priority though.

[Hiraki]

I assumed so but I'd rather verify than anything. Might be the drinks talking.

[Hiraki]

I've re-read this game a couple of times. I will post something later. It's very hard finding scumreads so I'm going to go back and see who I TR the most. I think that's how I'll get a resolution for my vote for this lynch.

[Hiraki]

Sorry - I could've sworn I posted here last night; put a good amount of time into that post too. I have figured out this game, I hope.

[Hiraki]

- Hiraki

- Towns Last Hope(hydra of The_Jester and Dunnstral)
- Lycanfire
- GuiltyLion
- TierShift
- Not_Mafia
- Martha Zolanski
- NYD

TRs:

I think NYD is pretty townie. I don't see someone being so controversial as scum in this game (this is mainly due to the 10 pages aspect)

GuiltyLion, based on our talks, is town. I can see how Alisae saw how he was scum but I think GuiltyLion's judgment about it all was justified.

Upon re-reads, Martha is a very strong TR of mine. I would like clarification on a few things:

I think Not_mafia is a better lynch

Can you clarify why? Your ISO indicates that you have more of a SR on TLH.

Null:

TierShift due to the fact that there's not enough content but that's purely subjective. I also have a good feeling about him. Feel free to lynch me for association but this is jut my feeling atm.

This leaves the following being scummy for different reasons:

Not_Mafia, Lycanfire, and TownsLast Hope; I'd like to review the cases on each.

1) Not_Mafia:

The most obvious one is the accidental hammer on Alisae. I have no problems with the lynch being here but I really wouldn't be surprised if this was a town lynch. The lack of apathy toward the mistake isn't helping though. This is my last ditch vote if the other three just don't make sense after this short review.

2) Lycanfire:

fake hammers are fine but a posthumous one is fishy. how can you not know that the fifth vote is on the board?

I was very confused when I first read this argument which is why there's a good few days where I'm just confused. I would like to discuss it more - even though I'm sure I'll read examples to the world and back from TLH.

1) How is this scummy, in your opinion? I don't want the facts of what happened - just the analysis. I want to know how you think that placing a sixth vote on a five-to-lynch vote equates to scum, rather than town.
2) You may have answered this in 1 - do you have any doubt that this may have just been a mistake on TLH's part or more of a vote without asking?
3) Can you explain more of the partner motives for N_H that you indicated in 183?

3) TLH:

I don't think the fake-hammer is bad. I think this is worse in the long-run:

That's absolutely the worst thing you can do

Why are you not voting for Not_Mafia?

@Mod: Sorry to be a butt again but just for future reference, Votecount 1.B.3 has a (2) next to Not_Mafia when it should be a (1). Won't matter after these bad boys tho:

Vote: Lycanfire
Vote: Towns Last Hope
Vote: Not_Mafia

[Hiraki]

Can you clarify why? Your ISO indicates that you have more of a SR on TLH.

So you haven't read the game, then

I have - please don't answer questions that aren't directed towards you.

[Hiraki]

Why are you not voting for Not_Mafia?

I didn't say it was scummy, it's bad play

Can you establish the difference in this scenario?

Do you think N_M is not a competent player to make something look innocent while being scummy in character?

[Hiraki]

I'm not scumreading TLH now.

I'd like to take a step back. I understand that you got past the argument about the fake hammer. In 128 (posted below), you mentioned that he was scum for bringing up unrelated reasons. Do you still believe them?

But on this post, you are scum and basically encouraging everyone to use the 2nd lynch to have 2 players lynched (which has a possibility that they're town together). "Throwing that away" isn't what town would do. We basically chose to NL for a reason, so therefore, we aren't throwing that away.

Why are you not voting for Not_Mafia?

I didn't say it was scummy, it's bad play

Can you establish the difference in this scenario?

Do you think N_M is not a competent player to make something look innocent while being scummy in character?

Do you believe a competent player can't make incompetent plays?

I do. My point is that you're being dismissive of these scenarios.

The difference is one is overall bad play that you reasonably wouldn't realize (Voting everybody)

Which doesn't need a vote

Can you explain this? I'm not understanding what you're saying.

You're trying to bring his quickhammer into this which I wasn't commenting on

I can see that and I'm not going to lie that was part of my argument but that doesn't justify the act if it's inherently bad, no?

[Hiraki]

voting everyone was a bad play (aside from the hammer)

But you don't think it could have scummy intentions behind it. I'm not asking if there is, I'm asking that you can at least acknowledge that N_M did it solely to look like it was bad play when he had a plan in mind.

[Hiraki]

1) Arguments and reads can change. You satisfied the prior argument and now I have a new one.
2) Pushing the blame on other people for not announcing L-1 or L-2 is a very very lame defense.
3) 256 is purely subjective.

[Hiraki]

Your snarky tone implies that we have irreconcilable disagreements and I completely agree.

[Hiraki]

/might/

[Hiraki]

I think the triple vote is pretty dishonest here. Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Any of you three would be helpful to my reads. This is unlimited voting, after all.

[Hiraki]

1 & 2 don't really make sense from everything else you've posted.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki why is Martha a strong TR for you

Lycan I just don't think TLH is scum, they're doing the most to try to sort this game at the moment. I'd rather see you drop the hammer argument I don't think it's indicative

She presents good arguments and I have no reason to SR at the moment.

[Hiraki]

Hiraki why is Martha a strong TR for you

Lycan I just don't think TLH is scum, they're doing the most to try to sort this game at the moment. I'd rather see you drop the hammer argument I don't think it's indicative

She presents good arguments and I have no reason to SR at the moment.

which arguments has she presented and why are they "good"?

I like 128, 188, and 201.

[Hiraki]

I need the VC.

[Hiraki]

Unvote: Not_Mafia

[Hiraki]

I think TS v NYD is TvT.

[Hiraki]

i don't think N_M will flip scum

[Hiraki]

Vote: Lycanfire
Vote: Town'sLastHope

[Hiraki]

(enter D1 posting here)

[Hiraki]

I don't like how Hiraki's reads have developed from what is a cut and paste from day 1.

Yeah, it'd be a shame if I TR'd every other person in this game but you too.

[Hiraki]

*two too

[Hiraki]

idk Hiraki is not really interacting with or talking about Tier either.

What is there to talk about?

[Hiraki]

and that's about the extent to which you've interacted with his slot.

And again - why would I need to do more now?

I need more votes before I do anything. Don't act like I haven't done anything now - there's just nothing new today that would affect my reads today.

[Hiraki]

I think you're over-thinking in 447.

[Hiraki]

Again (although you did not phrase the assertion) - how am I avoiding you?

It'd be different if I had said nothing about you but because I'm not putting you under the same degree publicly, I must not be doing it privately. I've been reading your posts and I haven't commented on everything because it would be useless. I've summarized everything I've needed to say quickly through my current posts.

[Hiraki]

like I don't feel like you're trying to game-solve

If I think I've solved the game, why would I need to do more?

I think EVERYONE here is town but TLH and Lycan. If I had done

nothing

in this game, I would agree with you but that is not the case. I don't know what you want but you're definitely barking into the wrong hole here.

[Hiraki]

Can you identify how I've been coasting? This day has now 2 pages into it.

Just because you didn't like the answer you got today (which is identical from the answer that you got yesterday) doesn't mean you can use different words to describe it.

[Hiraki]

Your posting is lazy

Thanks for your opinion?

Can you give me a reason not to stick to my reads that I have verified?

[Hiraki]

Lycan is looking to lynch; not looking to lynch scum. This is found a lot in his D1 posting. There's no real scumhunting just identification of scumtells - if that makes some sense? This is probably bad wording but I hope my point comes across clearly.

[Hiraki]

If you're talking about me, I am

literally

the next post. You still haven't responded to me in that sense and are just throwing out baseless accusations.

[Hiraki]

/wah/

[Hiraki]

remember when Lycan said that double voting is bad and you shouldn't do it because it's dishonest to who you actually want to lynch and then he proceeds to do it right now (his votes are on me and TLH, something he wanted to do from the start of D2) very secretly

remember when Lycan said that I shouldn't be copy/pasting my reads from D1 (again, with no reasoning why I shouldn't do that if nothing has changed) and then proceeds to vote his two SRs from D1?

i do

what issue did you create? a stupid theory that no one is following based off of a fake-hammer thing that could just be a mistake?

i'm sure there has been no townies that have ever made a mistake, especially not ones that have joined the gamethread by voting each player and causing a lynch

[Hiraki]

I explicitly said I was townreading you day 1.

I get the impression from Hiraki's post 239 that they appeared to want to work with myself but didn't seem to care to do the same with NM or TLH. I think the triple vote is pretty dishonest here. Who exactly do you want to lynch today?

Very big town read. Very explicit and there's nothing implied.

continue to keep calling my posts icky/bad/etc. without explaining, it is definitely working (i guess?)

[Hiraki]

is the shade you've been prompted by TLH to make. it's manufactured.

making up stuff 101

First time I mentioned my TLH scumread: 239

TLH's response (also the second mention of me in their ISO after a brief questioning phase about N_M):

Why are you not voting for Not_Mafia?

I didn't say it was scummy, it's bad play

(The next post is a vote that isn't worth quoting to fill up space on me)

But I'm glad you made me look this up because now I have a lot to talk about based on your actual false narrative.

I'm not going to lie and say that I had a lot on anyone in this game - it's why there's an uneasiness right now to throw suspicion anywhere. N_M said the best himself that he killed this game with his vote.

However, the vote on me right after this comes based off of the fact that, in the writings of TLH, I made a mistake and placed a vote on it.

Additionally, TLH's next post, after voting me:

Can you clarify why? Your ISO indicates that you have more of a SR on TLH.

So you haven't read the game, then

That's weird - did someone just vote someone on the basis of having:
1) An incorrect view of the game that could be remedied within one post
2) Not read the game

Which one of those are scumtells? The answer is 0. My scumread is definitely not manufactured by TLH, TLH manufactured my scumread.

If you want to go ahead and say "W-well! You voted!" please also note that was the second vote on the TLH wagon as per post 215. The arguments we had following it were more suited to my former argument which, in review, are not as compulsive as my current arguments.

and yeah-right. i'm not scumhunting or anything. keep pushing your narrative.

Instead of refuting your posts, I'll just drop this here from two people who are in high disagreement at the moment:

I have a hard time believing that Lycan is genuinely accusing Hiraki is coasting when his own posting on D2 has been naked votes and then very simplistic explanations of them

[Hiraki]

I try not to interact with people unless they said bad things. I've generally been lynched for encouraging goodposting so I try not to do that anymore.

[Hiraki]

I'm gonna put that NAI. Can totally understand the towntell though.

[Hiraki]

Lycan, I have absolutely no idea why you said that statement but it makes no sense.

[Hiraki]

I'm glad that you're debating voting a dead player Michael.

[Hiraki]

Yeah Hiraki stays in my town reads after ISOing

I will take that may be an alt part with a grain of salt.

[Hiraki]

Can you demonstrate any of this "better" scumhunting?

[Hiraki]

You quoted a DEFENSE of my accusations toward Lycan from me as SCUMHUNTING.

Again, super glad that TierShift was a TR for me.

[Hiraki]

To kind of push this in, Michael's current votes are on:

1) Dead people
2) Someone he was annoyed with but TR in his reading
3) People that Martha suspected that he ALSO TR in his reading.
4) NYD - someone who he TR as hard as HIMSELF but is now voting

[Hiraki]

Agreed.

Vote: Lycanfire

[Hiraki]

Wooooooooooooo