Micro 719: For Us [Endgame]

[morph the cat]

hi guys!

I'm back!

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Woot. Let's do this! Hello all. From the nuetered half.

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Given the voting restrictions advise everyone psuedo vote and not actually commit to it.

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I predict an rvs vote within 2 pages, and excessice yelling as a result.

Hello, this is the hatred part.

<3

[morph the cat]

GiF, thoughts about the true love nomination thing?

[morph the cat]

What if I'm ZZZX?

Hmm let me see. According to the wording, being nominated doesn't guarantee a positive impact. Thus, I am glad to put myself as a tribute and test that mechanic on myself to see what happens.

You sound like GiF, though! Yeah, we wondered about that lack of guarantee earlier.

[morph the cat]

From a balance perspective we thought town would probably be more likely to get fleeced by the mechanic than scum, if it's a variable-impact thing.

Actually I'm thinking about Nacho's Achievement Unlocked game. The extra abilities were pretty tech.

[morph the cat]

(From a purely flavor perspective though I have to admit I kinda sorta want us to get it. After all. The power of love meeting true love? It certainly worked in Princess Bride!)

It's a daily nomination thing, right?

[morph the cat]

No, it's just day 1.

Hmm.

[morph the cat]

Why are you voting Imperium?

[morph the cat]

Troll-GiF is usually (but not always!) town-GiF as I recall.

[morph the cat]

it's not yet a townread. Just a hope.

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But, you still get to answer my question though.

Even if I felt like putting a vote down on page 2, I don't think that's where I'd vote.

[morph the cat]

lol. I need to get my mafia legs back. I've spent 5 minutes trying to squeeze data out of that post.

p-edit GiF you know me. Early voting isn't my thing. Good chance I haven't seen a post by the person I'll vote.

[morph the cat]

'what if marriage/true love is bad' from Burning Hatred.

To be fair, I actually have my reservations as well; we'll likely vote to give it to one of our townreads; we're golden without it.

[morph the cat]

All of you cautious types need to either jump in with your partner or support a couple who will. Like us.

spay-head here. I may want to act as officiant.

[morph the cat]

We are burning hatred. Whether it be GIF or me, our hatred burns the same.

You think you're likely fool me about who's posting?

[morph the cat]

I had no idea this game took place.
I'll check it out for sure!

It's actually how I proposed.

Also, Penguin gets to be a princess so it all works out.


Joke away! She's amused I'm sure.

[morph the cat]

I'ma read up while Andy is gone and give my own reads before he can influence my own atm so here goes nothing.
~Maria

YAY! It's much more fun when you surprise your partner with reads, anyways. I mean, back and belly rubs go far too but sekrit reads are what gets everyone hot and bothered these days.

[morph the cat]

Yeah, it's gonna be a bloodbath title fight. Incoming wall to wall warefare, folks.

[morph the cat]

also I'd like to think you'd care more about scumhunting then some silly buff

I really like this comment.

I also like HS's wariness about us.

Those are probably the two things I like most in the thread right now.

[morph the cat]

But townreading morph when cabd did nothing is a crime

Yeah, poor Cabd is terrified of this player list. Ima have to carry him.

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Hey GiF do you have any other thoughts about Mastina's readslist?

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Damascus = Damocles?

What do you see as different between Andrius' and Mastina's votes?

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And you think his explanation was sufficient? It satisfied you? You take his explanation at face value?

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Well, you did call their vote jealousy, too.

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Do you consider Damocles a strong hydra?

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Both have played in games I modded (one each). I thought they did creditable jobs in their games. I have no idea how their play has progressed since I quit playing.

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I feel like there's a wariness to your answers, GiF.

I'm not sure what to make of that.

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I know one thing to make out about: We just stole Alisae's pagetop!

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I have to be wary
Because the first few rl days are VERY important to me.

somehow this is simultaneously comforting and troubling.

I remember a game where you tied someone to a chair for me.

[morph the cat]

It was an SoS game.

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Page 6. Not my best.

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Wait what.
CABD
TERRIFIED OF THIS PLAYERLIST
WHAT
WHO ARE YOU TERRIFIED OF
TALK TO ME BUD

Oh no. Andy, do you have can'tseethesarcasmtag-itus?

[morph the cat]

The only person I'm terrified of is my wife. And she's not here so ALL THE SHITPOSTING AND SNARK, etc.

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Andy, spayhead is pretty sure it's 99% GiF so far.

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NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed and mastina)

Your posting advocates a(n)

( ) unethical (X) unrealistic ( ) bad-faith ( ) emotionally unstable

approach to the true love mechanic. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws, which vary from meta to meta and playerlist to playerlist.)

(X) You've done nothing extensively town in the thread
(X) Your reasoning and justification is transferable to anyone who states they are town
(X) Basing the entirety of a game mechanic at one slot's word is by definition gonna fail 2/9ths of the time
( ) It is defenseless against shitposting
( ) It just punts the decision down the line
(X) At least one player is already explicitly against your plan
(X) Flavor != Alignment
( ) The majority won't put up with it
(X) Requires too much cooperation from non-alignment-confirmed players
( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
(X) Many players cannot afford to trust you so easily
( ) Your flirting is enough already, this would make it intel extreme edition
(X) Anyone could use this info as scum to make bad things happen

Specifically, your plan fails to account for

(X) Alisae knowing how to design setups at at least a 5th grade level
(X) Lack of townblocks at the present
(X) Players scumreading you
(X) Players willing to troll
( ) Asshats
( ) Time issues
(X) Unpopularity of self-serving voting
(X) Town reluctance to plans forced on them
(X) Extreme profitability if scum pulls off your argument
( ) Players who do not understand your plan
( ) Extreme stupidity
(X) Arguments about your plan spewing apathy and making scum cackle with glee

and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

(X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet almost never pay off
(X) It's fucking weird for a Hydra with Mastina in it to come off so assertive
(X) TL;DR
( ) League of Legends sucks even though I've sunken over $1,000 into skins
( ) I'm salty
( ) We should be able to talk about who to hand this to without being shouted down with your emotional opinions
( ) This decision should be talked about more
(X) Claiming your role flavor does not make you town
(X) Claiming your active or passive actions does not make you town
(X) Your entire plan hinges on scum not having one thing, while scum could easily have that thing
( ) Your plan will prohibit players form speaking up
(X) You had life instead of ditching your entire evening to come hang out with me when I was in Washington
( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the actual issue at hand
(X) Do you really think nobody else thought of this?
(X) You realize scum can read the game thread, right?

Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

(X) Sorry hydra, but I don't think it would work.
( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're stupid for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assholes, I'm going to explicitly NOT vote you for the mechanic now and forever.

[morph the cat]

Lovebirds (Andrius and MariaR)

NoticeMeSenpai (JaeReed and mastina)

Your posting advocates a(n)

( ) unethical (X) unrealistic ( ) bad-faith ( ) emotionally unstable

approach to the true love mechanic. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work. (One or more of the following may apply to your particular idea, and it may have other flaws, which vary from meta to meta and playerlist to playerlist.)

(X) You've done nothing extensively town in the thread
(X) Your reasoning and justification is transferable to anyone who states they are town
(X) Basing the entirety of a game mechanic at one slot's word is by definition gonna fail 2/9ths of the time
( ) It is defenseless against shitposting
( ) It just punts the decision down the line
(X) At least one player is already explicitly against your plan
( ) Flavor != Alignment
( ) The majority won't put up with it
(X) Requires too much cooperation from non-alignment-confirmed players
( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
(X) Many players cannot afford to trust you so easily
(X) Your flirting is enough already, this would make it intel extreme edition
(X) Anyone could use this info as scum to make bad things happen

Specifically, your plan fails to account for

( ) Alisae knowing how to design setups at at least a 5th grade level
(X) Lack of townblocks at the present
(X) Players scumreading you
(X) Players willing to troll
(X) Asshats
( ) Time issues
(X) Unpopularity of self-serving voting
(X) Town reluctance to plans forced on them
(X) Extreme profitability if scum pulls off your argument
( ) Players who do not understand your plan
( ) Extreme stupidity
(X) Arguments about your plan spewing apathy and making scum cackle with glee

and the following philosophical objections may also apply:

(X) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet almost never pay off
( ) It's fucking weird for a Hydra with Mastina in it to come off so assertive
(X) TL;DR
(X) League of Legends sucks even though I've sunken over $1,000 into skins
(X) I'm salty
(X) We should be able to talk about who to hand this to without being shouted down with your emotional opinions
(X) This decision should be talked about more
( ) Claiming your role flavor does not make you town
( ) Claiming your active or passive actions does not make you town
( ) Your entire plan hinges on scum not having one thing, while scum could easily have that thing
(X) Your plan will prohibit players form speaking up
(X) You had life instead of ditching your entire evening to come hang out with me when I was in Washington
(X) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the actual issue at hand
(X) Do you really think nobody else thought of this?
(X) You realize scum can read the game thread, right?

Furthermore, this is what I think about you:

(X) Sorry hydra, but I don't think it would work.
( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're stupid for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assholes, I'm going to explicitly NOT vote you for the mechanic now and forever.

[morph the cat]

Now I will never be able to even think of lynching that slot forever

???

[morph the cat]

I am known to take things too seriously at times. >_>

I was seriously being like WHAT YOURE AFRAID OF WHO? ME? TAMMY? NACHO?

-Andy

Me

A little sad, but not afraid. The absolute worst you could do to us is dayvig us. Which would be bad for town, but maybe not the absolute worst. And which would make me a lot sad. I'd even shed a tear at the ceremony where I burn your can-read-fery card and scatter the ashes.

You don't scare me.

I don't think anybody scares Cabd.

[morph the cat]

TOWNTOWNTOWN

Nobody...yet. See Cabd for Townblock applications.

Town

Lovebirds - We like both heads, though the sheer cuteness is a little hard on our cold black hearts.

BurningHatred - this isn't quite the level of townread that I had on GiF in the Perpetual Mylo game, but it's close.

Probably Town

NoticeMeSempai - Initially I felt Mastina was too focused on the True Love Mechanic and not scumhunting. That changed over the last 12 hours. But, who am I kidding? I'm going to sort Nacho. If he's town, I'll let him sort this hydra for me.

Devils Gear - I am predisposed to townread players I haven't played with who are troubled by my game. This goes in spades given I haven't played mafia in over a year. It's possible that Pieguyn prepped Human Sequencer regarding my idiosyncrasies, but for now I'm taking them at face value.

Not Enough Data

Imperium - I have an inexplicable feeling I'm eventually going to townread them today*

Clumsy Phoenix - I like the little bit they've put down in the game, but it's not enough for a read.

Scott and Ramona - I don't like their posts so far, but Cabd and I would both be salivating over getting them lynched if we were scum, so we're cautious

Sword of Damocles - Based on sparse, year-old meta I don't think this hydra is weak. So far we're not impressed. If I had to put someone in my scumpile right this minute, they would be it.


* ~reasons~


This list is not in seriatim order. Void where prohibited. No warranty is implied or expressed.

[morph the cat]

Antihero yelled at me for an entire game day because of it. (He was scumreading him, and he was scum!)
I think nacho was there too.

He was. In the BertKerberos hydra.

I reread that game a week or so ago as part of my fitness-for-playing-mafia prep.

[morph the cat]

Every time I read Scott posts I want to rope him
Is it just me?

Nope!

[morph the cat]

It's a gamble that we don't need to make. The potential of having an IC doesn't appeal to me because in my experience, they don't scare scum. They only make things easier during the night. I rather see how people attempt to sort someone's alignment then see how they interact with confirmed town.

I kinda like this.

[morph the cat]

Identifying the wariness turned out to be the key to seeing into GiF's play for me, though initially it threw me a little.

[morph the cat]

wanna expand on that a bit for the sake of everyone else?

That was in the middle of a set of stream-of-consciousness questions that Cabd's pushback in 116 sort of launched for me. I was having trouble figuring out how I wanted to approach reading GiF at that point. A wall of suspicion is evidently a good way of messing with me right now. I was going back and forth between wondering what in my play was causing his reactions and wondering if the reactions were real.

In the (fairly short!) stream-of-consciousness back and forth, I could feel the wariness, but I couldn't figure out a reason for it.

GiF's reaction to being called out for it did two things. It confirmed that there is wariness, and it gave me some thoughts about where it's coming from. The important thing is that I think it's coming from town.

Nacho, you know how you as scum reacted to that kind of back and forth with me, though you're very good at getting past it now!

I don't think I've ever tried it with GiF in quite that way before.

[morph the cat]

GiF, how would you feel about being nominated?

[morph the cat]

Other notable reads: I want to townlean morph but am having a hard time putting my finger on why. (Though just for your information ffery we are anything but a strong hydra ) I think it's tone but I also like their response to Senpai's approach regarding true love.

To the first, I am more interested in whether you're a weak hydra, actually. I asked the question the way I did because I wanted GiF to think about you from a different perspective than I was, as a sort of reality-test for me. In the games I modded (the newbie you replaced into, and the ClownTardis game for Ari), I came away with good impressions of your play.

To the second, what response to Senpai's approach do you mean?

[morph the cat]

Okay andy I'm here it's hugbox time.


PS: OMG METROID PRIME $

[morph the cat]

Honestly, part of me wants to give the TRUE LOVE/MARRIAGE thing to a couple.
No offense to the others but that's how I feel.
I don't want to play the optimization game especially since everyone CAN sit here and pull some bullcrap justification/role speculation out of their hats to justify it.
Like let's find a town couple and give it to them.
I don't care for the NMS platform of GIVE US THE POWER WE MIGHT BE CONFIRMED because its pure speculation. Sure, you MIGHT be an IC but so could literally anyone else here. We don't know 100% anything so stop the speculation and find some scum or some shit.

And then I got to 161 and am confused as to why you did the same thing twice.
If it were a break-down of two different slots that'd be one thing but why have a NMS in one post and then LB and NMS in the second.
Help me undestand Cabd.

So is 161 at us or NMS or both?
I'm willing to talk to you because I feel like alot of this is meant for me/us.

To be clear; it double quoted. First one was at the mastina hydra, second one was exclusively at you.

[morph the cat]

Now I'm just confused.
If we're your strongest townread then why is your 161 so against our plan?
ty for the compliment though I try to make her happy.


Like, you're true blue Cabd for your STYLE in 160/161. The question is I see your reads a page or so later and I'm wondering what CONCLUSIONS you're drawing from the 160/161. Besides for entertaining me I don't really see anything clear besides some commentary on play and maybe the insinuation that you don't support our candidacies, which makes me puzzled since we're apparently your top town read? What am I missing here?

160-161 was 100% intentional shitposting to make the point that the mechanic shouldn't be monopolizing.


Townread or not, we aren't supporting either of yours or mastina's hydrae for the mechanic quite yet because the shouty match threatens to devour the entire game thread with noise. We'll make a decision at some later point; once we feel there's enough data from the stragglers. There's players not putting enough data down that ffery and I want to drag them into the thread by a noose if need be. You'll note I didn't check the box.

( ) Nice try, assholes, I'm going to explicitly NOT vote you for the mechanic now and forever.

[morph the cat]

I believe Cabd's a strong enough player for scum theatre.
I'm not saying he's scum but let's not write off what Cabd's capable of.
You and I have both seen morph the cat's scumgame before and we both know they're capable enough to outplay a star-lined playerlist.

We are. But how many fronts do you think we could do it on at once?

[morph the cat]

I'd like to think Cabd/ffery and I have something special after a certain Fire Emblem game and Cabd, at least, can certainly read me.

On the scale of "comfortable to read" you're above the median for us, at least. I miss that game.

[morph the cat]

I mean we duped CES/DDD/Tierce/Empire/LLD/Nacho/Syr among others long enough to win and this is a smaller game.

Smaller in player list size, I suspect; but maybe not in fronts.

[morph the cat]

I mean we duped CES/DDD/Tierce/Empire/LLD/Nacho/Syr among others long enough to win and this is a smaller game.

We didn't dupe CES. We killed him before he had a chance to post. We did dupe the others, but we had a lot of help from players who had a bad case of town VI that game. It was a good game, but it doesn't feel like a heroic win because it should have been a lot more difficult than it was.

[morph the cat]

Other notable reads: I want to townlean morph but am having a hard time putting my finger on why. (Though just for your information ffery we are anything but a strong hydra ) I think it's tone but I also like their response to Senpai's approach regarding true love.

To the first, I am more interested in whether you're a weak hydra, actually. I asked the question the way I did because I wanted GiF to think about you from a different perspective than I was, as a sort of reality-test for me. In the games I modded (the newbie you replaced into, and the ClownTardis game for Ari), I came away with good impressions of your play.

I can't speak for Ari but I'm not sure how you got that good of an impression from my play in that game... I replaced into an obvtown slot and thus didn't have to worry about proving my innocence, and I proceeded to put town into autoloss. I would characterize us as a middling hydra; we work together very well but our reads are usually decent at best, and we're often lynchbaity early on.

Ari also lost in the ClownTardis game. Being wrong happens in mafia. How people get to wrong conclusions is illuminating as to how the approach the game. I didn't come away with the impression that either of you are bad players.

To the second, what response to Senpai's approach do you mean?

160
-smart

What did you think about our response to Andy/Maria's approach?

[morph the cat]

GiF, how would you feel about being nominated?

I dont want to be nominated

What are your Imperium thoughts?

[morph the cat]

Every time I read Scott posts I want to rope him
Is it just me?

As difficult as it is for me to agree with you, GIF, I'm definitely not liking his content at all.

I was doing so well too.

This is part of a WIP post.

Why is it difficult to agree with him?

[morph the cat]

As far as I can tell their approach amounts to "True love is a risk but you should vote us because we're so brave that we're willing to take it" which is not on the same level as Senpai's approach. Your response is fine but I never really took that seriously anyway.
-smart

You took the response to Sempai seriously but not the response to Andy/Maria?

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Lovebirds

[morph the cat]

But yeah

Morph is either curbstomping me so hard

or they're town.

<3

[morph the cat]

Seriously, 303 is the sweetest post.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Lovebirds

[morph the cat]

I scanned their ISO for few times so I can find that said contradiction to make myself feel a little bit better.
Turns out it was never meant to be.

We'll get into the details after Andy confesses his sins.

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Lovebirds

[morph the cat]

VOTE: Lovebirds

You made me so sad my shitpost is literally dropping otherwise needed quotation marks.

[morph the cat]

____
Since it was requested, some Morph quotes I like (I like more, but if I quoted everything, we'd be here all night):

Perhaps you'd be better served posting the non-existent list of morph posts you didn't like?

[morph the cat]

Basically yesterday:

"I'm just reading Cabd's post being like what"
"What did you do to the poor guy"
"Is he jelly of you? IDK but if he expects me to respond to him while we're playing a game that's not happening"

Look. Bud.
If you want to play the tee hee game then go find someone else.

So let's talk about your gif that doesn't really address anything. Because there's no case just funny words and a gif that I don't care about.

Cabd says "Contradict Yourself" but doesn't say where. Empty words.
"Make zero sense". This is a zero value so its nothing(?). Empty words.
"Make ffery Cry". This is a zero and thus shitposting. Empty words.
"Make Cabd panic" Unless you got a SCUM role PM then you have no reason to panic. You also don't explain so there's nothing anyone can do with this other than look at your zero-explanation posts and go 'well that's a gif'.

TALK WORDS TO ME MAN
BECAUSE THIS SHITPOSTING THING DOESNT CUT IT
Like this is crap you can fake as scum and you're avoiding the words.
160/161 was also 'shitposting' and it is irritating that you're playing the tee hee game here.

Hi there. Neuterhalf is afk for a bit. I'm not as artistic as he is, so, you'll have to wait for more of his amazing memes. I'm here to give you prose, though!

The above is interesting. Yesterday 160/161 were

Like, you're true blue Cabd for your STYLE in 160/161.

to you.

This is the post we feel is contradictory. It's MariaR's. We wanted leave it for the target to respond to yesterday, but it's been 24 hours, so.

WOW okay Jae you wanna play?

let's play

As for morph's read list, I'm not a fan of Lovebirds being so high with no stated reason, but I think I did like Andrius' post before Maria began to focus on what I feel were irrelevant things. I find the Maria tends to be more nitpicky as scum, and fast and loose as town. It's hardly a smoking gun since I'm aware meta can change and I may be prone to omgus here. I don't like that Maria seemed to be afraid of our hydra. That said, I think she has town read me every time I've been scum so maybe I'm again being too harsh on her despite my opinion that I'm a stronger town than scum player.

You're telling me pointing out details that are very important are wrong and irrelevant? Please tell me what details I have pointed out that you consider irrelevant shouldn't be too hard for you. I tend to be more nitpicky as scum? Excuse you your claim was stupid and bs and was just trying to go for town cred, who are

you

to try and meta me your read was wrong on me in that king of the hill game and your read was wrong on me in dota until I had to replaceout because of you then you came back and said no no you're town. Was I "fast and loose in dota" You think I am scared? No I said worried worried as in I know you're a good player not that you scare me the only person who scares me is Andy. (bless him but holy shit andy you can be scary)

I still feel as though Maria tunneled in on what she thought was the easiest thing to nitpick and push on, and I feel that's more likely to scum from scum!Maria than town!Maria.

You think I came into a game and would tunnel your slot as scum out of this whole playerlist? Really Jae? The one person who knows me I would tunnel? If you would like me to post games where I'm been super srs I have plenty via my alt where I go full tryhard you haven't stated any valid reasons to sr our slot beside some false meta now let's see if you're being bias and omgus or you came up to plate.

I'll be waiting~

@Imperium

40 is the ploy I think they claimed bp to get town cred and be like "the true love thing was made for us guys so give it to us" to give it to scum and when you get it it's not hard to be like "oh darn not an IC" the thoughts just don't add up if someone is so confident in their town games something

both

heads have said why do you even need to be an IC in the first place just get everyone to tr you and give the power to someone else that way you have an obv town bp and a town with an extra power

The contradiction is that she's haranguing Jae ("who are

you

to..") after the first quote for daring meta her when they've recently gotten her wrong in other games. Then after the next quote, she harangues them for about the tunneling accusation. She doesn't address the meat of the accusation - that they feel she picked an easy thing to nitpick and push. She argues against something completely different - that she wouldn't pick someone who knows her to tunnel.

Why not?

The top section discredits Jae's ability to read via comparison to prior games, and the second section is a sort of BoP.

The post isn't the kind of contradiction where someone says "A" in one place and "not A" in another. But it's still contradictory looking, and it's interesting to me that your own approach to us is heavy on the BoP, though it's almost endearing that you're BoPing us about a game that you also won. It's not like we single-handedly carried you to a scum victory in that game.

This bit, from the same post as your comment about true blue Cabd

In post 176, Imperium wrote:
I don't think that morph and Burning could be scum together based on this exchange.


I believe Cabd's a strong enough player for scum theatre.
I'm not saying he's scum but let's not write off what Cabd's capable of.
You and I have both seen morph the cat's scumgame before and we both know they're capable enough to outplay a star-lined playerlist.

You are taking a long, drawn out dance between me - spayhalf- and GiF, and attributing it to Cabd. Why? Because you think it wouldn't hold water to suggest I'm good at scum theater? Who do you think has done most of the driving so far?

This is the section that I feel is illustrative of scum-motivation, though it weaves throughout that entire post.

HS I need you here right now.
I'd like to know your reads and don't spare my feelings.
I'm mostly interested in the [morph, NMS, Imperium] bloc right now.

Oh and Shaziro. I'd like to see him here too.



Priority One for me is to sort out the [morph, Imperium, CP, DG] bloc because I know some of them very well (Cabd, Imperium) and want them sorted first so everything else can fall into place later. I want to resolve this now while I can discern you clearly and have you at my side if you're town or run you up if you're not.

-Andy

What we are seeing in this, is the beginning of an effort to tie us and Imperium together as a team, with a couple of other possibilities if one of us goes south as a potential scumteam member.

I read your long post yesterday and my heart slowly turned to ice. We interacted with you over it, and it was pleasant, but all of the angles still had sharp edges. My townread evaporated. Cabd's thoughts were similar, and stronger. It's like he mirrors my reactions to the game with the volume set to high, sometimes. We took our time. We reread. We discussed. I wasn't happy about a read flipping so strongly over what's essentially one post from each of you.

But, it did flip. So we voted you.

Now, if we somehow got where you were moving in these posts all wrong yesterday, let's talk about why

"Act in a scum-motivated way". No explanation. No challenge. Just more empty promises.
"Not actually be sorting us". Bullshit. I'm working on you and have been clear that you're my first priority in the game along with Imperium. I know you and the shitposting is something you can fake especially when there are no words or justification behind them and just, well, a load of crap wrapped in a nice jpeg image or whatever so people can think its exciting.

You've focused on a couple of Cabd's flourishes and talked about what he's capable of and a couple of old games, all with an emphasis on BoP. You haven't dug into our stances here, in this game, except where they are inconvenient to your acquiring the True Love shiny thing.

Now MAYBE you're not totally thrilled with the pace of the game and you're doing something sensational as town to see who will bite.
Or MAYBE you're scum trying to kill off a former buddy because you're worried or something.
Now I'm inclined to believe this is TownCabd just going full-paranoia over something stupid like Pine betrayed me in LAUNDRY but we'll get to the bottom of this IF YOU ACTUALLY TALK.

We are extremely unhappy with the pace of the game. But, we're exercising extreme self-control (until last night) not to blow up the thread jumping 3 or 4 times on every little thing in the hopes of dragging content out of some players.

DO I HAVE TO GO QUOTE THE RELATIONSHIPS THREAD CABD
COMMUNICATION IS KEY BUD AND YOU'RE NOT GIVING ME ANYTHING TO WORK WITH BESIDES SHITPOSTING

This is bullshit. at least 60 posts worth of content and developing reads, two shitpost checklists (that had a message for you, and I think you got it) and three lovingly crafted memes. You're choosing to focus on Cabd's shitposts. Why?

"Buddy buddy up to Clumsy". Simply wrong. I got odd vibes from Clumsy to begin with because he was all 'hey im vla hi andy more later' and shaziro is still MIA. Now I know that some hydras won't do what we and Imperium are doing and just having two people post from one account but SHAZ is still MIA. While Clumsy has never played a game with me before, I've been in two of his and he's been in one of mine so he knows how I play as town and my charming personality.

Clumsy, on the other hand, from my one game of observations was a low-numbers poster but had a medium-high impact when he DID post. I don't really see him posting here and am TRYING to give him a hand into the game. IIRC he said V/LA and I'm giving him time to really get up to speed but I threw a branch if he needed something smaller to talk about than the whole game.


This is what we think looks like buddying Clumsy, and it includes another place where you tie us to Imperium.

Clumsy, brother. I need your head in the game when you arrive so we can go full PALADIN mode and crush the scums.
I'm interested in sorting out my priorities so if you have a chance for reads then great - otherwise id appreciate a focus on [morph, Imperium] if you have the chance.

Your explanation above is a decent explanation for that, though, so we'll see how things develop from here.

"Get Voted by Morph". This isn't part of a case.
And I don't really care but APPARNETLY you want this to be a big deal so ok sure I'll dance the dance with you until you hit your head and come to your senses.

The meme obviously wasn't a case. Why are you trying to portray it as a shitty case?

[morph the cat]

long, drawn out dance between me - spayhalf- and GiF

I think it was more like tip-toeing around each other, just like old times.

But I like to dance on tip-toes!

[morph the cat]

I find Devil's posts mostly... passive.

Atypically passive?

[morph the cat]

@Cat Jae is trying to sr me for pushing something that I find sus and bringing in meta to back up their statements and I am proving them wrong I don't really see the contradiction you are talking about
~Maria

Can you explain how you proved them wrong?

[morph the cat]

@Cat Jae is trying to sr me for pushing something that I find sus and bringing in meta to back up their statements and I am proving them wrong I don't really see the contradiction you are talking about
~Maria

Can you explain how you proved them wrong?

Their logic doesn't add up they want the true love thing so they can become a bp ic or something along those lines and they felt the need to claim because their flavor was public. They also made statements saying their town game made them super obv town

Going by that why would you want the power in the first place if you're so confident in your town game in the first place that you can make yourself obv town wouldn't you want to give that to someone you townread instead?/ So when I went at explaining this Jae brought in meta against me saying I am more likely to nitpick as scum or that they can read me but I've said that Jae has read me wrong in the past few games we have played together that is proving them wrong if I need to go dig up links to those said games I will if I have to go dig up games where I "nitpick" I will but I don't like how Jae is trying to shade me by saying nitpicking is scummy it's like there saying I shouldn't find that scummy or I shouldn't be scummy and just be *giggle* oh joy!
~Maria

why would you expect the true love effect to be the same for every player?

Also, why would you not tunnel Jae as scum?

[morph the cat]

Also, what was your alignment(s) in the games where Jae misread you?

[morph the cat]

I never said the true love effect would be the same for every player?

Ah. You think that they should consider becoming an IC as less valuable to town than some other, unnamed, ability another player might get?

[morph the cat]

Because if I was scum I'd pocket Jae on things I know he townreads me on example: a shit ton of ate and a few others that I won't comment on. I'll be back in like 40 minutes after my bath.
~Maria

What sorts of posts so far have made you want to AtE in this game?

[morph the cat]

You can't unvote.

You can check out, but you can never leave~


BTW this game is weird because there's so many people adulting during the days that it's a ghost town. Spayhalf is getting really tired of the yarn-ball I gave her.

[morph the cat]

Also, if we have a cop or the like, would it be a good idea to check the Bulletproof hydra? If we can clear them, that'd be a bulletproof IC day 2.

What do you think about this idea in light of their theory about becoming an IC if they win the True Love nomination?

I have so very little experience with either head of Morph. I played like half a game day with Cabd before a sub out, and I haven't even heard of Ffery before now. I really want them to explain their scumread on Lovebirds more, it's hard to judge them if I don't know their case. So leave this as pending. Their earlier posting had me a bit wary though, around 110-130. It looks like they're trying to sort Burning, but something didn't seem right. I see at as kind of surface level interaction I would use as scum to fabricate a townread on a player. But, again, I don't know the hydra at all really.

What are your thoughts about the post I made several hours ago regarding our read? I don't think you've been back to the thread since then.

Also, I actually started sorting GiF on page 1 or 2. Since I feel like I'm fairly good at reading him, it was a priority. The way I read him is through interactions and to a large extent it involves seeing how his read of me develops.

Imperium is a little worrying, because Nacho usually seems pretty town fairly early for me when they are town, but they haven't really gotten into the game too much yet. I don't know if that's a scum tell necessarily though. I'll have a stronger read once they get more into the game (like your truly, >_>).

I'm enviously nostalgic. Once upon a time I was scary-good at reading nacho early. After many heartbreaks and humiliations I've come to approach my Nacho reads with extreme caution.

I like the depth of your observations in the rest of this post a lot, regarding NoticeMeSempai and Imperium.

[morph the cat]

Actually it was the next post where you made the comments to Imperium I thought were good..

[morph the cat]

Between Pie and I, we have two different night actions.

I'm pretty sure this is the case for everyone.

[morph the cat]

Andy, bro, I was kinda half-ribbing you but the not responding thing is breaking my heart even more now. Ffery's going down the paranoid rabbit holes of finding scum partners for you.

For the love of Mila, get your ass back here and TALK TO ME OKAY

[morph the cat]

Clearly we are invisible. Ffery why don't we just make this our "wholesome about people" thread since apparently nobody else can see our posts anyways?

I'll even start!

Cephrir is so much happier where he is now and getting to see the change from "Stuck on the east coast" to "OMG I LIVE IN THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST WHEEEE" has been heartwarming. And he deserves it!

[morph the cat]

This is the post we feel is contradictory. It's MariaR's. We wanted leave it for the target to respond to yesterday, but it's been 24 hours, so.

WOW okay Jae you wanna play?

let's play

As for morph's read list, I'm not a fan of Lovebirds being so high with no stated reason, but I think I did like Andrius' post before Maria began to focus on what I feel were irrelevant things. I find the Maria tends to be more nitpicky as scum, and fast and loose as town. It's hardly a smoking gun since I'm aware meta can change and I may be prone to omgus here. I don't like that Maria seemed to be afraid of our hydra. That said, I think she has town read me every time I've been scum so maybe I'm again being too harsh on her despite my opinion that I'm a stronger town than scum player.

You're telling me pointing out details that are very important are wrong and irrelevant? Please tell me what details I have pointed out that you consider irrelevant shouldn't be too hard for you. I tend to be more nitpicky as scum? Excuse you your claim was stupid and bs and was just trying to go for town cred, who are

you

to try and meta me your read was wrong on me in that king of the hill game and your read was wrong on me in dota until I had to replaceout because of you then you came back and said no no you're town. Was I "fast and loose in dota" You think I am scared? No I said worried worried as in I know you're a good player not that you scare me the only person who scares me is Andy. (bless him but holy shit andy you can be scary)

I still feel as though Maria tunneled in on what she thought was the easiest thing to nitpick and push on, and I feel that's more likely to scum from scum!Maria than town!Maria.

You think I came into a game and would tunnel your slot as scum out of this whole playerlist? Really Jae? The one person who knows me I would tunnel? If you would like me to post games where I'm been super srs I have plenty via my alt where I go full tryhard you haven't stated any valid reasons to sr our slot beside some false meta now let's see if you're being bias and omgus or you came up to plate.

I'll be waiting~

@Imperium

40 is the ploy I think they claimed bp to get town cred and be like "the true love thing was made for us guys so give it to us" to give it to scum and when you get it it's not hard to be like "oh darn not an IC" the thoughts just don't add up if someone is so confident in their town games something

both

heads have said why do you even need to be an IC in the first place just get everyone to tr you and give the power to someone else that way you have an obv town bp and a town with an extra power

The contradiction is that she's haranguing Jae ("who are

you

to..") after the first quote for daring meta her when they've recently gotten her wrong in other games. Then after the next quote, she harangues them for about the tunneling accusation. She doesn't address the meat of the accusation - that they feel she picked an easy thing to nitpick and push. She argues against something completely different - that she wouldn't pick someone who knows her to tunnel.

Why not?

The top section discredits Jae's ability to read via comparison to prior games, and the second section is a sort of BoP.

The post isn't the kind of contradiction where someone says "A" in one place and "not A" in another. But it's still contradictory looking, and it's interesting to me that your own approach to us is heavy on the BoP, though it's almost endearing that you're BoPing us about a game that you also won. It's not like we single-handedly carried you to a scum victory in that game.

This argument is pretty weak, given that if scum chooses the wrong player to tunnel it can screw them over. I will agree that Maria didn't really address the accusation, but I don't think it's a contradiction.

To simplify what I think is contradictory, MariaR's post to Jae reads like this: "How dare you try to meta me, you suck at meta-ing me" followed by "lol you know me better than to think I'd tunnel you as scum."

I agree that she didn't address the accusation in this post, though. It was mostly a discredit of the accuser. It surprised me that she called this a refutation.

Most of my BoP concerns are with Andy.

[morph the cat]

But, in fairness, I think Maria did more toward refutation her answers to my questions last night.

[morph the cat]

I'm here. And I have an unfortunate bombshell to drop to you.

[morph the cat]

(I'm here meaning me as in Cabd, but ffery's around too so you'll maybe get sync)

[morph the cat]

Typing up a wall; fellow do-er of the laundry.

[morph the cat]

spayhead checking in. Andy, BoP=Burden of Proficiency in my post. I'll wait to respond to your specifics until after *bombshell*

[morph the cat]

unfortunate bombshell

Let's start here.

For what it's worth, I personally inflated the strength of my read on you specifically to see your reaction. (The dead giveaway is no "Sync Achieved" on our voting statement~) I wanted to test the waters both in your reaction and how other people reacted. And the most interesting snag sadly isn't visible here. But it's significant enough I feel like unilaterally revealing some stuff.

Tammcho is actually plenty active. Just in a hood with us and not here. And they had a decent amount to say about our vote on you.

Ffery will handle explaining that now. I post this fully realizing that it may burn bridges but we feel it's important enough to have this data out there in the event of our deaths/etc. This isn't at you specifically but every player in the game.

[morph the cat]

That was the bombshell, of sorts. That there's a hood with an oddity of a reaction. Ffery will be detailing it.

[morph the cat]

You can call us the Morphington Post

[morph the cat]

So, you may have noticed in the game thread that Nacho seemed to be running a little bit of interference for us, like in post 262. There was also his kind offer to help Jae figure out if the posts she likes are alignment indicative. It felt to me like he hit the ground in this game thread with a strong townread.

The same thing happened in the neighborhood the night before. It felt like he was treating our discussion as almost mason-level.

It's not unheard of for Nacho to get a strong townread on me early, but this seemed to be a townread that happened without interaction. It is kinda unheard of for Tammy to treat me as probable town from the get-go. She's said in the past that it takes most of day 1 for a read to solidify on me.

This is my first game at MS after a year+ break. I can see Nacho being extra nice/extra easy on me since this game could be my last, or could be the start of another years-long mafia addiction.

So, maybe my sense that I was townbinned hard just hours into this game is a misperception.

I've also felt a couple of times like I'm almost being talked down to in the neighborhood, but that is a perception that has a high probability of being pure paranoia. The mason-like camaraderie going on is freaking me out.

When I got to the point where I was ready to post a reads list, I was in a quandary. I had a lot of data on Tamcho that I couldn't mention. I had a read but the only way to share it was to out the neighborhood because neither of them had posted in the game thread yet. I told them they were making me sad.

Both responded, making it clear they knew their game thread absense was the problem.

I posted my reads list, with a "no data" read on them with some cryptic ~reasons~ for assumiing I'll eventually townread them.

The next day, Nacho started posting here. And one of his objectives seemed to be to smooth my passage in the game thread.

Their play is guaranteed to unleash my paranoia, and they know that. So, it would be a calculated risk to do this as either alignment, really. Nacho made it pretty clear that he's cool with that and that he plans to play the game the way he wants to play it.

[morph the cat]

This posts lacks the "I [Townread/Scumread] Imperium" that I was hoping it would have.

So where do they sit in your reads list now that this is out on the open?

Because I'm not getting a good feeling about all of this.

-AKW

I think the observation that Clumsy(?) made that he's asking questions but doesn't seem to be forming reads from them is incorrect. There are implied and expressed reads. He's in my null pile, though, mostly because of the quickness of his apparent townread on us. I am relatively easy to read by people who know what to look for in my town game, but I know for a fact that I started out here more tentatively than I usually do because of feeling rusty. And GiF snagged my focus almost immediately, and I know my posts until I felt confident about him being town looked like a whole lot of nothing to a non-involved eye.

[morph the cat]

The "enjoy playing with" is extremely mutual.

I'm sorry that we ruined your enjoyment of the neighborhood. It's still a mafia game, though, and what Nacho was doing in both threads worried me.

[morph the cat]

me

Us, miss Morphington.

[morph the cat]

I was gonna snark back, but let me take a step back here.

We tried to somewhat with the "get into the main thread" post so that we could discuss it in the appropriate location. Nacho's response of "nah imma keep doing my own thing" didn't exactly help with our paranoia.

[morph the cat]

Hey you know what works? Talk to him about it.

He made it clear he's playing the game the way he wants to play it.

And the neighborhood has the added complication of another player of unknown alignment.

[morph the cat]

"True Blue" Cabd means nothing more than "this is Cabd's heart and what I expect from him". It does NOT have any bearing on his alignment.
Because as the townies in this game know, BLUE is not the color of our Role PMs.
If I actually thought you were 100% town I'd say it in no uncertain terms and move on to sort out the next person in the list. Which is Imperium. Who's not here.

I wasn't implying that "true blue" meant town. It just seemed odd that you accepted it as part of what Cabd likes and enjoys about mafia - the occasional opportunity to snark and mess with people, and then turning it into some huge WTF ARE YOU EVEN DOING????

You're talking to the wrong head of the hydra, ffery.

I think at that point I was focused on MariaR's post?

Uh no.
I'm trying to sort two of the player's I'm closest to out early so we can move on. Do you not remember The Triumvirate in Xenoblade? Do you not remember how great we were in Xenogears together? If Nacho and I are on the same page amazing things happen and we can roll out games.
I don't even lean-scum-read you right now I'm just frustrated with Cabd's reversal and just sitting here being like I KNOW you're not 100% serious so what the hell are you doing man.

I do remember. It seemed like you were more interested at the time of that post in talking up Cabd's scumgame than you were in actually sorting us. The only posts you'd really taken any interest in were Cabd's checklists.

Yeah we could definitely do more of this.

I was referring to in-hydra discussion, but we're not just willing, we're anxious to discuss with you. Both our F5 buttons have been worn down by this game.

Believe it or not, I'm not readily able to parse between which head of the hydra is posting when.
I have no idea if GIF or ZZZX has been posting in their hydra.
I know the more eccentric stuff comse from Cabd obviously but being like "andy is misattributing" is wrong because its not on purpose.
Since, apparently, its too much work to ask a hydra to sign their posts I AM going to guess who-posted-what wrong at times.

So far it's been 99.999% to 100% GiF. I think there was one post I thought might possibly not be him. You can probably assume in any future games that morph posts associated with sorting GiF-hydras are ffery posts.

The point is Cabd's horrendous, case-free reason-less reversal on me that we both know isn't 100% serious and the fact that you expect ANYONE to take it seriously without words/case/reasons/etc.

You keep looking at other things when the ONLY THING I AM CONCERNED WITH RIGHT NOW AND YOUR SLOT IS THE CABD REVERSAL. Because this is basically the ONLY thing that's happening this game I care about besides winning TRUE LOVE with Maria.

It's not just a Cabd reversal. I felt that you were focusing on us via BoPing Cabd's scum game without addressing our stances IN THIS GAME freaked me out, because we're just one "good" hydra in this game (for some values of "good") and your comments about Cabd's body of work apply equally to your own. I'm pretty sure I was the first in hydra convo to say that our townread was degrading badly.

[morph the cat]

And there was absolutely nothing preventing you from trying to sort nacho in the neighborhood or talk to him. You acting like it is is utter silliness and you know better. And considering that nacho was specifically looking for something from member number three in the neighborhood you know that you can try to sort there.

I held back one concern I had about Nacho because talking about it would entail mentioning the third player in the hood, but since the fact it's a 3-player hood been discussed I'll go ahead add it here.

Nacho has also run interference for me in hood, in one case offering to translate a post I made from ffery-speak, and offering to answer questions about what posts in either thread meant.

Maybe I've underestimated how idiosyncratic my playstyle is. Or maybe site meta has changed that much in a year.

[morph the cat]

Again, "hey nacho why are you running interference with me, it kinda freaks me out" seems not a difficult thing to bring up to him. I mean if you're really concerned and really interested in figuring him out.

If this weren't something happening in a game of mafia, I would have said something. It's a behavior that could be alignment indicative. It's something I don't remember him doing (except once, in a game where we were both scum and he was wk-ing me).

It's not just an interpersonal thing. It's a game thing, done by a player I need to sort.

[morph the cat]

Tammy, the ONLY concern I have about your personal play so far is that you townbinned me so quickly. You explained why you wouldn't be around much to begin with and I respect that.

The rest of my concerns with your slot are Nacho concerns. Now that our convo with Andy is starting to move forward, we'll probably start using the neighborhood some, again, with no expectation that you'll do the same. And when Nacho is around, I think the convo we need to have with him is laid out and ready to start.

I apologize for hurting you. I didn't mean to.

[morph the cat]

We tried to somewhat with the "get into the main thread" post so that we could discuss it in the appropriate location. Nacho's response of "nah imma keep doing my own thing" didn't exactly help with our paranoia.

While I'm not upset by this interaction, I am hurt.

First of all, I am mildly annoyed at your initial post because you didn't say hey you're paranoid of me focusing too heavily in the neighborhood thread (in which case I would have pointed out that we recently did make the transition from neighborhood to game thread and Tammy was posting thoughts that she would have given to me and only me in the neighborhood thread instead and didn't have time or brainpower to think and compose thoughts because she was sick). Not every one of my thoughts reaches the game thread mostly for other people's benefit - sometimes I like to keep paranoid thoughts to myself but mostly I try to post my thoughts in thread in a way where my ISO is something people can follow and engage - posting a random assortment of assertions I'm not really sure I'm willing to stand behind and I'm not really sure I believe in doesn't quite accomplish that. This is where the hurt comes into play - if you were paranoid of us, then why did you say that we needed to post in thread so "people" could sort us instead of just telling us the truth? I was dismissive of Cabd's post because it's silly to worry that we are getting mislynched - if you trusted me enough to let me know that it was you that was worried, then I would have responded with more care than I did.

Secondly, your overall approach. While I'm usually not one to be worried over wording and the like, I was surprised to see that you were approaching us like petulant children, which made me think that I wasn't quite reading your post in the right light - I would never say that I wasn't going to talk to you anymore (temporarily or permanently) in order to get you to play how I want to play. I respect you too much to use a carrot or the stick approach with you when we can instead just have a grown-up conversation and I thought that respect was mutual - was the "we aren't posting in thread anymore" supposed to be interpreted a different way than "if you're good boys and girls then you can get morph treats but since you've been bad no treats for you?".

The last part is perhaps the silliest one (and of course the most important one to me) just in that I thought we've built up enough of a rapport where if I tell you that I'm approaching the game in a certain way that you'll trust me on it and give me a little room.

You're assuming that my paranoia sprang full-grown like an Athena-migraine from Zeus's forehead. It didn't. It went into hyperdrive yesterday. I don't like locking up game-relevant info in a contested neighborhood.

Why HAVE you been running so much interference for me? Even assuming I need it, do you think Cabd isn't capable of clearing up my ambiguities?

[morph the cat]

was the "we aren't posting in thread anymore" supposed to be interpreted a different way than "if you're good boys and girls then you can get morph treats but since you've been bad no treats for you?".

No, it wasn't. It was feeling like the game had slipped sideways on me (on both of us, really). A strong townread had flipped unexpectedly. I was seeing scum-motivation in Andy's posts and while I thought the most likely thing going on if he ws scum was chaining the two of us together as a scary, 9-alarm fire type potential scum team, another possibility was that you and Andy were a scum team doing a number on us.

That's when the (running interference) footnote on a soft townread that I wanted to eventually clear up and figure out became a huge red flag.

[morph the cat]

So, maybe my sense that I was townbinned hard just hours into this game is a misperception.

I've been hard townreading you this game from the second you started posting and I know I shouldn't be which is why I've been trying to check myself in the silliest of ways (the "for other people" bit doesn't mean that I'm trying to get you to say things in order to talk to other people, it means that I'm trying to ask you questions in order to check my townread on you - very very sad they've been the best doubts I've been able to come up with but here we go!!). My interactions with Human Sequencer in the neighborhood haven't been running interference for you, they've been making sure that she couldn't simply skate on "morph doesn't make sense to me". My interactions with Jae haven't been running interference for you, they were for Jae's and my benefit (in reading Jae) as we talked about at the time; sometimes it's hard to find the words why you think something and sometimes hearing someone's other explanation helps; sometimes it's not quite right but it's close and you can draw a connection from their words to your meaning and sometimes it's completely wrong but even that helps because you start to see your own perspective a bit clearer.

That's interesting. When you asked me to explain for other people, I launched into an explanation, and missed your post with specifics you wanted me to touch on. I didn't touch on them. I did one of my hand-wavy descriptions of the inputs and outputs of my GiF-reading algorithm, which is at heart a black box process.

That apparently satisfied your question, though.

[morph the cat]

I've been hard townreading you this game from the second you started posting

Our early posts were shit though?

[morph the cat]

[quote="In post 421, Imperium"][/quote]
I said that.

Although ffery agrees; our first ten posts were all fluffy crap. What post of ours from the initial set was giving you the warm fuzzy town teddy bear feel, exactly?

[morph the cat]

What kind of question is that?

One with broken quote tags, apparently.

[morph the cat]

Ffery, what in your initial posting do you think that I liked?

I think it was my reach-out to GiF.

Which was extremely unpracticed and rusty.




(Which is why I wondered if at that point in the game you were more interested in me not having an awful return-to-mafia experience than in my alignment at that moment)

[morph the cat]

I think it was my reach-out to GiF.

Which was extremely unpracticed and rusty.

You seem to be implying that I should scumread you for being rusty - being rusty typically means that your thought process is easier to see and it means I can have more confidence that you're not doing next-level moves.

Implying that the best I would have expected was a "maybe town?" for it when it definitely wasn't my best town work. I felt like getting eye-to-eye with GiF was a struggle. On the one hand, it was encouraging that you saw what I was doing as town. On the other hand, GiF, who spots me as scum with alarming ease, wasn't exactly convinced.

But, I'm viewing all of this through a lens that's tinted in the shade of "do I know what I'm doing any more?"

[morph the cat]

I have no idea what my first interaction with GiF as scum looks like.

I do know I'll give it my absolute best shot.

[morph the cat]

I have no idea what my first interaction with GiF as scum looks like.

I do know I'll give it my absolute best shot.

Don't be lazy.

When you're scum you know that GiF is town and you know what you look for that you find more likely to be coming from him when he's town or when he's scum. You know if you're comfortable townreading him or scumreading him as scum (which response would make him more skeptical? does he have the clout to lynch you and what makes him more inclined to be okay with lynching you?). You know when you're interacting with him that I'm watching your interactions - you know that I'm expecting you to reach a correct read and you'll be met with extreme skepticism if you reach a different read so while you might push at the opposite angle for a little while for depth reasons you're ending up on the right side of the road in the end, etc. etc. etc.

Nacho, the only thing that's a for damn sure in this is that I'll wind up with a good read on him, and probably on you.

The hardest part of having a scum game that can be mistaken for my town game is duplicating (what I see as) the gestalt of my town markers. I've always believed that the only way I'll get better at scum is to change how I approach the game as town. I won't say that I can't change my approach. I will say that I'm apparently extremely reluctant to do so.

[morph the cat]

unfortunate bombshell

Let's start here.

For what it's worth, I personally inflated the strength of my read on you specifically to see your reaction. (The dead giveaway is no "Sync Achieved" on our voting statement~) I wanted to test the waters both in your reaction and how other people reacted. And the most interesting snag sadly isn't visible here. But it's significant enough I feel like unilaterally revealing some stuff.

Tammcho is actually plenty active. Just in a hood with us and not here. And they had a decent amount to say about our vote on you.

Ffery will handle explaining that now. I post this fully realizing that it may burn bridges but we feel it's important enough to have this data out there in the event of our deaths/etc. This isn't at you specifically but every player in the game.

May I surprise you

heh.

It was an alternative we both considered. It muddied things a little, for sure.

[morph the cat]

I don't think you get what I mean.
You'll see within 2 days.

Ah. cool. I thought you meant you had exaggerated your read on us.

[morph the cat]

*snort*

[morph the cat]

And with that, I'll probably be gone/extremely low content for the next couple of games; need to put in work elsewhere when I do have time for mafia and I won't have much.

Thank you!

[morph the cat]

{Burning Hatred, morph the cat}
{NoticeMeSenpai, Imperium}

{}

{Lovebirds , Scott and Ramona , Sword of Damocles , Clumsy Phoenix, Devils Gear}

From those big list, S&R and SoD above others, but with a very small space between them.

{Burning Hatred, morph the cat, Imperium}
{NoticeMeSenpai}

{}

{Lovebirds , Scott and Ramona , Sword of Damocles , Clumsy Phoenix, Devils Gear}

??

[morph the cat]

Will post something within a few hours, probably.

[morph the cat]

I guess my surprise is not happening until twilight

If morph wasn't nuetered already we would now have blue balls.

Mine ooops. Gives me an ego post I guess.

[morph the cat]

I have an idea.

- Scott

Want to share?

[morph the cat]

I have an idea.

- Scott

Want to share?

Not at this time.

- Scott

Sure was a great idea to post about it in the game thread, then!

[morph the cat]

Mastina we miss you. There's lots of data ITT you can't make jae do literally everything!

[morph the cat]

Still waiting for Ari to come in and powertown

On a related note

@mod this head will be V/LA for the weekend

(but I should hopefully be able to post once per day, depends on if I have wifi)

The only solid scumread I have is Senpai. If I were to place a vote that's definitely where I would put it.
-smart

And your reasons for scumreading them? Do they go beyond thinking their early posts about the True Love mechanic stink of a gambit and you don't see it as a town-looking gambit?

[morph the cat]

We really hoped to continue our discussion with Andy today. We are sadface.

Maybe this weekend will have better activity?

If this is normal MS mafia now I'll brb after I slit my wrists.

[morph the cat]

One can hope.

[morph the cat]

Thoughts on when you might have time and interest?

[morph the cat]

Please use protection!

I'd say "damn it" but it's literally impossible for ffery to have posted this.

[morph the cat]

So; Imp, Hatred, ya'll around? It's time for a patented fferycabd sync achieved.

[morph the cat]

Sorry; was not meant to be serious.

Our reads list is, though.

[morph the cat]

TOWNTOWNTOWN

BurningHatred - If it weren't for the wariness thing, I might have maintained a slight reservation on this read. The two alternatives are what he said: Getting curbstomped or he's town. The amount of mindmeld going on here is amazingly confidence-building, though!

Town

Imperium - Concerns fairly well put to rest. I think this is the first time anyone's put that much effort in to convince me I'm town. (sorry guys)

Probably Town

NoticeMeSempai - I like Mastina's content so far. My town-Mastina model is probably a little out of date (though it hasn't really changed in a long time even before my break). I like that I'm getting that through-the-looking-glass feel when I try to see the game through the Mastina-goggles. Town-Mastina-goggles present a game that's not the game I see, but it's a game I can like and think I wouldn't mind living there for a bit. Scum-Mastina-goggles, not so much. I realize this is a little fuzzy sounding, but consider the subject! Jae's posts are coming off pretty town to me. Two of the posts she picked for Nacho to interpret don't strike me as being particularly alignment indicative for me, but I liked that my posts about GiF giving off a wary vibe resonated for her. Not that I distrust my GiF read now, but it's small external validation. I also liked Jae's read on MariaR and overall like the interactions between the two hydrae.

Scott and Ramona - Liking their input better. Their logic rings true, and I feel like given their overall low contribution, hitting some good points is encouraging. I also kinda liked that they decided to start over again when they felt they had too many town reads. There's an artlessly transparent feel to their posts, especially when they (Uzi?) lolnope at giving out stuff they don't want to post.

Maybe

(Low data or null read)

Lovebirds - still sorting.

Clumsy Phoenix - in terms of my forming a GiF read. If they actually think those 5 or so posts were the only posts where I was developing the read, I guess it's a reasonable impression. But, in the rest of that post, his concerns about Jaestina were new to the thread (I think) and I like them. I also like the question to nacho about how his questions in that catchup-stream didn't seem to go anywhere. I think that's a valid observation for someone who doesn't have a lot o experience with Nacho (this is an assumption I should probably verify, huh?). I think some of Nacho's lines of questioning kind of trailed off a little (for the time being?), but I did get a sense of what Nacho's reads were from his posts.

Not So Town

Devils Gear - Read has faded. I'm putting off a meta-dive but if pie doesn't show up I'm going to have to do one and that will make me sad. The neighborhood posts seem more comfortable than the in-thread stuff. Maybe it comes down to people not often engaging HS directly in the game thread? After going through some isos tonight, I feel like this is the weakest slot based on the game thread. So...why does she do better in the neighborhood? I'm at the point now that I want to scum-bin them and tell Pie to come in and show me if I'm wrong. HS's degree of disinvolvement is troubling. She started out more involved, but seems to have lost energy and interest. There could (and maybe are) out-of-game reasons why she feel this way, but all I've got is what's in the thread(s).

Sword of Damocles - Their trajectory on NoticeMeSempai is sluggish and one-dimensional - they don't like the BP claim and don't like the interest in getting the True Love Mechanic. There hasn't really been much interaction with the Jaestina slot directly since the early game, though they've commented on other players. They seem a little on the back foot, more reactive to questions than pursuing things. And, I don't think they've added many new insights to the game.



------------------------------------

I'll be quite shaken if I have scum in our first two tiers. Words can't express how curbstomped I'd feel if this is scum-GiF.



This list is not in seriatim order. Void where prohibited. No warranty is implied.

[morph the cat]

Achieved

VOTE: Devil's Gear

[morph the cat]

We're here if you want to talk reads or stuff.

[morph the cat]

I was just taking a look at the Clumsy Phoenix iso in the upickinfreezer game. There are some differences.

I don't want to meta-dive.

[morph the cat]

Posts!

Hello!

Not gonna lie, would have moved our vote onto Maria if it wasn't there already

Early on before reading became a blur it looked like Maria was like, mad that we could have a town!firm

that.

doesn't make sense.

What was this?

[morph the cat]

Mastina-claims tend to be polarizing. They create a circumstance where players' basic mafia philosophies come into conflict. Sometimes, there's something alignment-indicative in the reactions.

I didn't think this was one of those times.

[morph the cat]

At least in terms of Maria's reaction.

[morph the cat]

So that's the basis of your Lovebirds read?

Have you caught up with the thread?

[morph the cat]

It's one of the things that stuck out to me.

I'm more of an interactions over rereading player so it's gonna take a few days for me to pick up steam.

I believe im on page 16 or so but the attention to detail reading is out the window and turned more into skimming.

Good luck with that. This game has been slow, especially the last couple days.

[morph the cat]

I wish I knew why. Several players are making about one post a day and are always in catch-up mode. People who don't actually react to stuff going on in the game thread eventually wind up looking scummy to me.

[morph the cat]

Damocles and Clumsy. And to some extent, your slot.

And other slots have fallen off in activity after making decent starts. It's day 1 and we're going long stretches without any activity.

[morph the cat]

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean. 139 is voting the BP probably IC because they claimed it and were worried about why Hatred wouldn't want the Ture Love thing given to them. Jaestina would never just claim that willy-nilly so there's obviously another reason for it, and I think their concern with Hatred was reasonable!

Continuing to read.

- Ari

Could one (or both!) of you lay out your complete case for Jaestina scum?

[morph the cat]

Reads update?

[morph the cat]

Are you two synching your reads? Sounds like not?

What's the basis of your Damocles towneread?

[morph the cat]

I'm a little surprised you have Scott and Ramona at the same level as DG/Two Real Humans.

They started fairly low in our list, but have moved up quite a bit.

[morph the cat]

Also, what do you like about Something Smart head? We're having a time figuring out that slot.

[morph the cat]

Titus?

[morph the cat]

Andy,

How did we get to 2nd tier town?

[morph the cat]

Andy,

How did we get to 2nd tier town?

I said you're confidently town.

I mean if I were to make a list myself it'd be a formalization of what I said in the post.

Hatred/Morph/Phoenix
S/R
Imperium/Damocles
NMS/DG

You were super concerned about sorting us. I don't remember getting sorted, but now we're town?

[morph the cat]

Is Imperium active in the Neighborhood?
Like, because there's so little going on here I want to know if there's BEHIND THE CURTAIN going on or they're just all not here rn.

-A

Depends on your definition of active.

[morph the cat]

Is Imperium active in the Neighborhood?
Like, because there's so little going on here I want to know if there's BEHIND THE CURTAIN going on or they're just all not here rn.

-A

Not much at all. Given how little we're seeing them in the neighborhood right now, I think Nacho was serious about his last post here saying he'd be scarce for a few days.

[morph the cat]

We still need to figure you out. I was hoping that I'd be able to do that by seeing how you went about sorting us.

We'll have to come up with something else.

[morph the cat]

We still need to figure you out. I was hoping that I'd be able to do that by seeing how you went about sorting us.

We'll have to come up with something else.

NGL I'm a bit surprised you're still working on this.

You and I haven't played that often. I enjoy when we do, and I have meta'd you to hell and back more than once. This is a much easier townread from you than the Xenogears game. You had my hydra (SoS with GiF) as scum initially. Your read moved a little townward over the course of day 1, and then we died N1.

And from what I remember of that game, Cabd's hydra was below the magic line and would have been lynched before lylo if the IC hadn't hammered you-the-supersaint. And that burned the town auto-win down. Fortunately Antihero chose correctly in Lylo.

One of the things that I think distinguished your town game from your scum game isn't present in either the town form or the scum form in this game.

My meta's probably stale.

[morph the cat]

Ginngie and Human Sequencer.

[morph the cat]

We still need to figure you out. I was hoping that I'd be able to do that by seeing how you went about sorting us.

We'll have to come up with something else.

NGL I'm a bit surprised you're still working on this.

You and I haven't played that often. I enjoy when we do, and I have meta'd you to hell and back more than once. This is a much easier townread from you than the Xenogears game. You had my hydra (SoS with GiF) as scum initially. Your read moved a little townward over the course of day 1, and then we died N1.

And from what I remember of that game, Cabd's hydra was below the magic line and would have been lynched before lylo if the IC hadn't hammered you-the-supersaint. And that burned the town auto-win down. Fortunately Antihero chose correctly in Lylo.

One of the things that I think distinguished your town game from your scum game isn't present in either the town form or the scum form in this game.

My meta's probably stale.

Yeah Xenogears I was cocky as crap coming off of Xenoblade where I ran the Triumvirate with Nacho and orcinus.

Mind sharing?

I absolutely mind sharing!

[morph the cat]

This is a synch. Our criteria for nominating a player for True Love:

- A solid town read
- A solid level of activity

[morph the cat]

Gin's slot is uhhh...something I'm more weirded out by them I guess is the best way to put it not in a scummy or towny way just weird.

Cabd here. Let's talk about this.

[morph the cat]

Somehow we have the equivalent of a 18 player large theme game... with less activity than actual micros that began at the same time as this one.

I remain unconvinced that this game is not actually purgatory and that I died last week.

[morph the cat]

Now taking bets on if Scott and Ramona can stay sane during their ISO/meta-dive of Morph. Odds are 2 to 1 against.

[morph the cat]

We're at about the same point actually~

[morph the cat]

Burning Hatred
morph the cat Sword of Damocles
Imperium Clumsy Phoenix
Scott and Ramona Devils Gear
NoticeMeSenpai

I know things are keeping NMS away from the thread but I haven't forgotten them.

Fery and Tammy are very town
Ramona / JR / Andrius looks town

My issue with this is we're playing as hydras so its more than one person.

Are you saying you don't TR the other halves of ALL these hydras or basing your reads ON these hydras from the individual contributions of these named heads?

Can we also not forget about the marriage mechanic.
You should vote us. :3

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean.

The wording here is awkward.
Also you have to realize that
1) we don't KNOW they're Bulletproof
2) we don't THINK they're Bulletproof
3) apparently outrageous claims are standard for mastina

Burning Hatred
morph the cat Sword of Damocles
Imperium Clumsy Phoenix
Scott and Ramona Devils Gear
NoticeMeSenpai

Mine basically looks like this but:
Up: Clumsy
Down 2: Damocles
Up: S/R

Like, I'm confident Cabd/ffery are town.
I'm confident GIF is town.
I'm betting Phoenix is town.
S/R is town.

NMS/DG scumreads.
Damocles/Imperium are sitting on the borderline of like, I need more Damocles in the thread and I need more Imperium in the thread.

I'm interested in voting but I want more Imperium in this thread and we should figure out the MARRIAGE before LYNCHING thing.

-Andy

Is this still current?

[morph the cat]

Gin's slot is uhhh...something I'm more weirded out by them I guess is the best way to put it not in a scummy or towny way just weird.

Cabd here. Let's talk about this.

What's there to talk on/What do you wanna talk about?
~Maria

What weirds you out? Why is it null?

[morph the cat]

Yeah, it's Devil's Gear's slot. It looks llike Human Sequencer is taking a break from the game since Ginngles joned.

I've liked some of what I've seen from Ginn. It hasn't been enough to erase the earlier play.

[morph the cat]

Claiming BP: I have no issue with I'd perk a brow but I would be fine with it
saying "oh protective role's dont go on us" makes me question but still that wouldn't be too big an issue

What I have an ISSUE WITH is them going after the true love thing when they think it's going to give them IC because that makes 0 fucking sense
~Maria

I still don't get how you go from "bullet proof IC" to scum

They provided reasoning as to why they believe it'd be in the game, and it sounds pretty fucking nice to have.

So 2+?=4

where is the last 2 that makes it scummy?

This post sounds like they 100% believe Jaestina was telling the truth about their role, and bludgeoning your skepticism. It has a scum vibe to it.

[morph the cat]

"Welcome to Scummoner's Rift"

[morph the cat]

We just spoke of our criteria for nomination. Nobody meets it yet. You're probably the closest.

[morph the cat]

We just spoke of our criteria for nomination. Nobody meets it yet. You're probably the closest.

Well, there's GiF. He doesn't want it.

[morph the cat]

We'll likely vote to give it to one of our townreads. We're unlikely to vote to give it to ourselves.

[morph the cat]

We discussed and do not wish to select to not use it today.


We will definitely give it to a town read. Nothing ventured nothing gained. Would rather a townread of at least 51% get it rather than nobody get it.

[morph the cat]

Here you either implied no one or yourselves. But it was also weird you used the word 'likely'. The whole bolded sentence seems unnecessary to me.

Actually, I don't understand this. We didn't imply no one, and we strongly implied not-ourselves? We had some reservations about the possibility of True Love not being an across-the-board boon to anyone who gets it, but the more we've thought on that, it seems out of keeping with the theme.

[morph the cat]

spay-half is here, but somewhat distracted by cooking stuff.

[morph the cat]

^^ What I mean is that I can't write up a huge GiF-Town case right now, but I can answer questions.

I'd like some back-and-forth with you, anyway.

Later tonight I'll be able to write something resembling a wall-post.

[morph the cat]

He is still both of our top town read. I read GiF via interaction - seeing what he reacts to, and how. GiF can and does troll as scum, but it's different and it's less free and easy looking. As town, he looks for ways to reaction-test people. The first 6 or 7 pages of this game felt like one huge reaction test of me. He hinted that he was scumleaning someone, and I jumped onto the idea that it was me. It made sense for him to be wary of me. One of the things that he looks for in my posts is a forced feel to the phrasing. But, he knows that my posts sometimes feel (and are) forced for non-scummy reasons. In fact, I work pretty hard at steaming out all the forced crap when I'm scum though I usually miss some.

He was holding his vote on Imperium, which made it a little harder to tell what specifically would or was bothering him in my posts. The stuff about Cabd not posting was a sort of reaction test. Cabd does more of the driving (or feeds me stuff to post in my own way) when we're scum. So, what would scum-me do when we're scumread for Cabd not being around?

Probably many of the things I did do, and GiF and Nacho will have to figure what subtleties would be different.

GiF didn't let himself get drawn into that.

I'm almost at the point where I'm drawing him a map of what to do in a game where he's scum against me.

So.

[morph the cat]

It would be nice if my GiF read could be expressed in bullet points. But, GiF reads never are.

[morph the cat]

So you both have NoticeMeSempai at the bottom of your pile.

[morph the cat]

We're not scumreading Jaestina based on what they've posted. We're pretty disappointed that they're not around, and the read will inevitably fade some if this continues through the game day.

[morph the cat]

Andy what's your Clumsy read?

[morph the cat]

Soup's on cruise control now. Do you have more questions for me Clumsy?

[morph the cat]

Also, forgot to mention in my post. Slowly becoming more and more in favor of Lovebirds as town. I'll be back on lunch break.

-Clumsy

You posted this earlier this week. Can you talk about what has influenced your read toward town?

[morph the cat]

What would you like to do with the Nomination for Truelove, if you had full control over it? Apart from giving it to yourself I mean.

-Clumsy

We are still evaluating players, so aren't ready to decide. We've already said that Scott and Ramona come closest to meeting the criteria we've settled on for choosing who to vote right now.

[morph the cat]

7 days left. I think we should figure out the True Love thing first, and then go to lynching. That might give us some more solid information and interaction to work with. I would still like it, and this head personally could give it to Lovebirds or even Scott and Ramona, but I'm still struggling with something here.

In my role PM (without quoting), it says that I get -this certain thing- here if we are married. However, it also says in flavor text something that references marrying the second half of the flavor (my half). That second half of the flavor is a "disabled ???", so it needs to be enabled. Shaz-heads half includes "self-enabling", so he activates my role somehow. I just don't know if it's with this or not. The PM outlines one thing that changes with marriage, and the flavor text referencing marriage is throwing me off. I really want to be able to use this ability, but I don't know if we can get the nomination for it, and I don't even know if that will activate it or not.

-Clumsy

This is a question to other players. I'd like to know if anyone else's flavor mentions marrying their hydra partner in this manner, but I"m not sure I want to dig deep for it. This doesn't need to be a roll call, and please don't say either way if you think it would give away some level of town advantage if you did confirm/deny.

[morph the cat]

People get split role based on the hydra head
What

I knew my role was a flipping troll

An odd mechanic that may serve to break this game open? I suspect it might be; given some are told they might get stuff and some do not.

[morph the cat]

...Everyone's isn't like that? I assumed because of our role pm, everyone would have that divided. Like the example in the game announcements, one would be the earth, the other would be the moon. Is that not the case?

Hell; we aren't even a couple.

Where is the example you are referencing?

[morph the cat]

In the upcoming game announcements thread. Talks about siblings being a type of love, Earth and Moon being another example.

Can you quote this? I only saw mention of siblings and planets. Of which the sun or the moon are neither.

Perhaps you're thinking of the sample town role PM Alisae put in your scum PT?
VOTE: Clumsy Pheonix

[morph the cat]

Smart, your other head makes me very sad.

[morph the cat]

In the upcoming game announcements thread. Talks about siblings being a type of love, Earth and Moon being another example.

For Us! A 9 Player Micro Hydra ONLY Romantic Themed uPick!

It's love season. Wow! So romantic! ikr. So the uPicks should have to do with relationships and love! It doesn't have to be a couple,

I'm sure siblings love each other very much. Two people or planets or things or whatever

or anything really bound by love!

Coming to a Micro Queue near you! (Pre-Ins: 6/6)
A Hydra ONLY GAME!
Romance themed uPick!
WOTM will be a thing. And be familiar with uPicks!

I don't know how you convince me this wasn't a slip. I'm open to suggestions.


Two planets, earth moon, whatever. Want to reach for scumreads harder?

[morph the cat]

Stuck my comment inside the quote somehow.



I don't know how you convince me this wasn't a slip. I'm open to suggestions.

[morph the cat]

morph, what is it you like about lovebirds

"like" is an interesting word choice.

We're at about 60-70% confidence they're town based on Andy. We're still trying to figure MariaR out.

[morph the cat]

It has to do with Andy's irritability, unapologetic line-drawing re mafia and life, and still showing up and trying to get stuff done in a stalled day 1 that feels a lot like quicksand.

[morph the cat]

Welcome to how we've felt all damn game long.

[morph the cat]

It has to do with Andy's irritability, unapologetic line-drawing re mafia and life, and still showing up and trying to get stuff done in a stalled day 1 that feels a lot like quicksand.

I mean, he still hasn't touched the questioning by me about his scum read on NMS.

The only work I really saw put in was bargain for the true love mechanic and mechanical talk is easy, to well talk about; and regarding my slot I'm an icky feeling, there is no basis to the read and they've outright said they can't express it by going through what I posted. While I also get that a predecessor could have had a weak game, when I'm actually here, you judge me for me because I don't argue about what I didn't do and it's skeevy cuz it's like, they don't have to sort my play here, when they can just ignore what I say and push my predecessor's slot.

There's actually a whole lot of question-ignoring or -missing that has gone on in this game. I'm not sure what to make of it.

Also while you're on, I'm still confused on what the scum slip is because I don't pay much attention to the OP when I replace in

One of us will explain tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

I mean, one of the very first lessons I learned about playing scum, was like this guide and it said if there was a question you didn't like, simply ignore it cuz people will likely forget about it and move on to something else

I checked at least twice to make sure this isn't a bastard game; because it's way more than two slots pulling this bullshittery.

[morph the cat]

While I also get that a predecessor could have had a weak game, when I'm actually here, you judge me for me because I don't argue about what I didn't do and it's skeevy cuz it's like, they don't have to sort my play here, when they can just ignore what I say and push my predecessor's slot.

It's more complicated than this. Your "predecessor" is still part of the hydra, at least the one who was active and doing stuff. But, now that you're here she's not posting.

[morph the cat]

I took a strong dislike to the way she started hanging out in the neighborhood avoiding the game thread.

[morph the cat]

Why does someone avoiding the game thread and the majority of players who need to form reads on them bother me?

Gee, I can't imagine why.

[morph the cat]

I'm saving that up for the therapist. Headed to sleep now.

I hope.

[morph the cat]

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread
143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote
147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)
193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason
239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly
257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum
353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

Thanks. I have some comments for you about your observations, but I'd like for Jaestina to field this first.

[morph the cat]

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean. 139 is voting the BP probably IC because they claimed it and were worried about why Hatred wouldn't want the Ture Love thing given to them. Jaestina would never just claim that willy-nilly so there's obviously another reason for it, and I think their concern with Hatred was reasonable!

Continuing to read.

- Ari

Could one (or both!) of you lay out your complete case for Jaestina scum?

Does this look like a scumread?

It's not a scumread.

I picked up the wrong post out of your ISO, I think. Clumsy laid out some of his points for scum-Jaestina last night.

Are you on the same page on that read? Or do you know yet?

[morph the cat]

Catch up however you feel comfortable doing a catch-up.

[morph the cat]

Plz tell me you're not done catching up :/

[morph the cat]

That's adorable.

VOTE: Sword of Damocles

[morph the cat]

I've been worried about you two for quite a while and wondering if it was mostly lack of data.

Clumsy's case on Jaestina kinda nailed it though. Lemme post my thoughts on that...

Damocles' case for scum-Jaestra

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread

Let's look at the posts:

I'm not feeling great about anyone that seems eager to take True Love and nominated themselves. It's way to early in the day. We should be waiting to see meaningful contribution from everyone and give it to a good TR. It's a boost for anyone that has it, so wanting to take it for yourself with no or barely any information on the game is incredibly selfish and scummy at this time.



Town leaning Morph and Burning Hatred right now.

~Ramona

Uhhh... Yet it's not scummy for Burning Hatred to want no one to have it?

~Jae

This looks to me more like they are pointing out what they think is a logic flaw in Ramona's argument, not discrediting Burning Hatred.

143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote

It was a serious vote. Why shouldn't it get a serious response?

147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)

Uhhh... Yet it's not scummy for Burning Hatred to want no one to have it?

Yup, most everything else was noise to me. Chickadee mentioned wanting to take True Love as being scummy because it's a boost for anyone who has it, yet townread Burning Hatred who was voting for No one to have it. Pointing out to her that her logic is flawed and lazy is something I felt could help me get a read on her through her response, and also help me get into the game. Do you disagree with my assessment of her post?
Why am I the head that worried you most at the time of 106? I hadn't posted yet at that point.
I don't like how you're so focused on our role and how you feel we should play it. A bulletproof IC is one of the strongest roles to have around. Especially so for the later stages of the game. Given that, there's definitely scum motivation present in trying to discredit and push on us now to attempt to stop us from achieving that status.

~Jae

I don't really disagree with your assessment but out of all the things to comment on it felt like you were irked that burning was not getting picked on over you I said I was worried about you because I've played with you many times before and I know you're a good player so that's what worries me. I don't really care if you're not gonna like me focusing on your role I see a weakpoint with dumb logic and I am going to keep pushing it

you have clear contradictions that I have pointed out that you have yet to address

why is it scum motivation and me not just finding posts scummy can

Fucking hit the enter button too soon,
Anyway I was saying can I not find your posts scummy as town
~Maria

Not sure I buy that was genuinely your read of the situation, but okay.
I see no contradictions, and as such I'm not sure what you're talking about with the bolded, can you elaborate? Just quote the parts of the post you feel I should have addressed that I haven't, if you feel like you already presented it as clearly as you can.
Why does it worry you that I'm a good player? I'm actually of the opposite opinion, but regardless, are you talking town or scum here? Do you think it not possible that you just don't understand fully what is actually ideal play for our role, given what you've known of myself and mastina to date and how we play?
I feel like there's scum motivation in wanting to get rid of the potentially conftown bulletproof if scum doesn't have a strongman to hit us with. Especially so given you believe that both myself and mastina are good players. Is there potential for you as town to find our posts scummy? Maybe? I can't say I'm an expert on following your mindset. I feel like you're more focused on trying to find something wrong with us rather than trying to genuinely read us.

What part of this looks like sucking-up to you? The talking-down thing seems to be more of a stylistic meta point to me based on what I've seen so far in this game than something specific to this post. I bet if you went through my iso looking for points where I have talked down my game you'd find tons of them. It's something I do, partly out of frustration with my limitations, and partly as policy.

193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason

Nominate: No One

- Scott

LUV don't do this again please. Town was actually crippled in civilization mafia from the none pushes.

Calling this out as "trying to play the voice of reason" looks like pure nitpickery to me. (Also, I liked learning about a game where a mechanic was ignored/passed up and how that worked out for town)

239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly

I assume you're talking about the Maria read? What parts did you think were shallow and inconsistent, and why? And what did you think of MariaR's reaction to the post?

257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum

And yet Nacho thought they were fairly decent posts to think came from town-me.

353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

I did a search for "entirely" and "comfortable" in JaeReeds posts using the site search page. I was deluged with posts. It appears that she habitually describes her reads and concerns in terms of how comfortable she is with them. The rest of your observation is meh ok, I guess? I mean I am looking at the True Love mechanic through the lens of my role pm. And in terms of the mechanic, they have speculated quite a bit about it, especially regarding mod meta.

This part in particular looks to me like Mastina's usual highly self-absorbed way of looking at a game, wherein she sees her role (both game role and the role she personally wants to play in every game) as being pivotal.

[morph the cat]

But, the main problem with this case is that it takes the linked posts grossly out of context and tries to create a narrative with them.

A narrative that doesn't hold up to scrutiny in context.

And then, there's the way your slot just strolled right past various gamestate changes without getting involved or even opining.

You don't have a broad view of the game.