Micro 719: For Us [Endgame]

[nancy]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 14 Sword of Damocles - 1 ( NoticeMeSenpai ) L- 4 Imperium ---------- 1 ( Burning Hatred ) L- 4 NoticeMeSenpai ---- 1 ( Lovebirds ) L- 4 Two Real Humans --- 1 ( Scott and Ramona ) L- 4 Scott and Ramona -- 1 ( Two Real Humans ) L- 4 Clumsy Phoenix ---- 1 ( morph the cat ) L- 4 Not Voting -------- 3 ( Clumsy Phoenix, Imperium, Sword of Damocles ) With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Lynch Deadline is in (expired on 2017-06-25 21:40:00)

MARRIAGE COUNT 1 . 14 NoticeMeSenpai - 2 ( NoticeMeSenpai, Two Real Humans ) Clumsy Phoenix - 1 ( Clumsy Phoenix ) Burning Hatred - 1 ( Sword of Damocles ) Lovebirds ------ 1 ( Lovebirds ) No One --------- 2 ( Burning Hatred, Scott and Ramona ) Not Voting ----- 2 ( Imperium, morph the cat ) If nothing is changed, No one will discover true love Deadline is in (expired on 2017-06-25 21:40:00)

[morph the cat]

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread
143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote
147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)
193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason
239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly
257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum
353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

Thanks. I have some comments for you about your observations, but I'd like for Jaestina to field this first.

[Sword of Damocles]

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean. 139 is voting the BP probably IC because they claimed it and were worried about why Hatred wouldn't want the Ture Love thing given to them. Jaestina would never just claim that willy-nilly so there's obviously another reason for it, and I think their concern with Hatred was reasonable!

Continuing to read.

- Ari

Could one (or both!) of you lay out your complete case for Jaestina scum?

Does this look like a scumread?

It's not a scumread.

[morph the cat]

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean. 139 is voting the BP probably IC because they claimed it and were worried about why Hatred wouldn't want the Ture Love thing given to them. Jaestina would never just claim that willy-nilly so there's obviously another reason for it, and I think their concern with Hatred was reasonable!

Continuing to read.

- Ari

Could one (or both!) of you lay out your complete case for Jaestina scum?

Does this look like a scumread?

It's not a scumread.

I picked up the wrong post out of your ISO, I think. Clumsy laid out some of his points for scum-Jaestina last night.

Are you on the same page on that read? Or do you know yet?

[Sword of Damocles]

Lovebirds is getting my first scumlean. 139 is voting the BP probably IC because they claimed it and were worried about why Hatred wouldn't want the Ture Love thing given to them. Jaestina would never just claim that willy-nilly so there's obviously another reason for it, and I think their concern with Hatred was reasonable!

Continuing to read.

- Ari

Could one (or both!) of you lay out your complete case for Jaestina scum?

Does this look like a scumread?

It's not a scumread.

I picked up the wrong post out of your ISO, I think. Clumsy laid out some of his points for scum-Jaestina last night.

Are you on the same page on that read? Or do you know yet?

I'd love to be, but no. I can start off with an Iso there if that's something of interest to the thread

- Ari

[morph the cat]

Catch up however you feel comfortable doing a catch-up.

[Sword of Damocles]

Alright, let's look at Jaestina.

Their earlygame is very concerned with the mystery power and making sure that they secure it, and making sure everyone knows they must be town for having their flavor released publicly. While I don't disagree with either of these in theory, I think they went a little overboard with it, as if they have to convince everyone of it, including themselves.

As their Iso goes on though, I like most of their posts. Their stuff around Chick and Hatred is well thought out and has a basis in experience (Civ Mafia), And I think their response to Lil Chicky Vert voting "No One" was reasonable, all things considered.

270 is a good readslist and the reasons make a lot of sense from a town perspective. I'm pretty uncomfortable with them listing Hatred up so high, but it's without context so I'm hoping there was a good reason other than just "my townreads say so" because come on...

But from this point on I see townposts so I'd say I'm comfortable with this slot!
I'll have to talk to Smart about this because obviously we're not on the same page here..

- Ari

[morph the cat]

Plz tell me you're not done catching up :/

[Sword of Damocles]

Plz tell me you're not done catching up :/

I'm not, my head just needed a break. Sounds dumb, but whatever.

I think if I eat breakfast I'll be more focused. Lemme go do that.
Hopefully I can get a rhythm then

- Ari

[Sword of Damocles]

I see that no one is currently in the lead for discovering true love right now, and I don't think that's a good idea at all. Hatred, Pilgrims, why are you guys voting there? What is your goal in denying the possibly boost to town from this?

[Sword of Damocles]

P.s.
If we forget to sign it's probably Ari.

[Clumsy Phoenix]

Hi this is the Shaziro head. We've been a bad hydra and been unable to communicate for the past few days due to alternating work schedules. Tomorrow is D&D night, and we'll be in person together for several hours. By the time we meet up, I'll be completely caught up and have reads to give him. Tomorrow night I'll return to posting regularly. I got caught up in the SUPP and other such stuff, but I'm ripping hot and ready to tear scum some new orifices.

-Shaz

[Sword of Damocles]

7 days left. I think we should figure out the True Love thing first, and then go to lynching. That might give us some more solid information and interaction to work with. I would still like it, and this head personally could give it to Lovebirds or even Scott and Ramona, but I'm still struggling with something here.

In my role PM (without quoting), it says that I get -this certain thing- here if we are married. However, it also says in flavor text something that references marrying the second half of the flavor (my half). That second half of the flavor is a "disabled ???", so it needs to be enabled. Shaz-heads half includes "self-enabling", so he activates my role somehow. I just don't know if it's with this or not. The PM outlines one thing that changes with marriage, and the flavor text referencing marriage is throwing me off. I really want to be able to use this ability, but I don't know if we can get the nomination for it, and I don't even know if that will activate it or not.

-Clumsy

This is extremely interesting.

If you're fairly sure this will activate part of your role, why would you want to give it away?

I think it's reasonable to send it your way if this is the case!
HURT WITH A BLADE: Clumsy Phoenix

[Sword of Damocles]

In the upcoming game announcements thread. Talks about siblings being a type of love, Earth and Moon being another example.

Can you quote this? I only saw mention of siblings and planets. Of which the sun or the moon are neither.

Perhaps you're thinking of the sample town role PM Alisae put in your scum PT?
VOTE: Clumsy Pheonix

I also had assumed this was how all roles were working. Your vote here is an extreme stretch, Morph!

Though I guess I should have clued into it not being like that when The Power of Love was announced because that's not coupley in any way...

- Ari

[morph the cat]

That's adorable.

VOTE: Sword of Damocles

[Aristophanes]

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread
143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote
147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)
193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason
239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly
257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum
353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

Smart, we're usually so on the same page! What happened here!?

Like, Senpai is likely to be town! I'll have to read this case more indepth, but I really don't see where you're getting the negative read from!

- Ari

[Aristophanes]

That's adorable.

VOTE: Sword of Damocles

Lol what did I do that's adorable?

[morph the cat]

I've been worried about you two for quite a while and wondering if it was mostly lack of data.

Clumsy's case on Jaestina kinda nailed it though. Lemme post my thoughts on that...

Damocles' case for scum-Jaestra

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread

Let's look at the posts:

I'm not feeling great about anyone that seems eager to take True Love and nominated themselves. It's way to early in the day. We should be waiting to see meaningful contribution from everyone and give it to a good TR. It's a boost for anyone that has it, so wanting to take it for yourself with no or barely any information on the game is incredibly selfish and scummy at this time.



Town leaning Morph and Burning Hatred right now.

~Ramona

Uhhh... Yet it's not scummy for Burning Hatred to want no one to have it?

~Jae

This looks to me more like they are pointing out what they think is a logic flaw in Ramona's argument, not discrediting Burning Hatred.

143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote

It was a serious vote. Why shouldn't it get a serious response?

147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)

Uhhh... Yet it's not scummy for Burning Hatred to want no one to have it?

Yup, most everything else was noise to me. Chickadee mentioned wanting to take True Love as being scummy because it's a boost for anyone who has it, yet townread Burning Hatred who was voting for No one to have it. Pointing out to her that her logic is flawed and lazy is something I felt could help me get a read on her through her response, and also help me get into the game. Do you disagree with my assessment of her post?
Why am I the head that worried you most at the time of 106? I hadn't posted yet at that point.
I don't like how you're so focused on our role and how you feel we should play it. A bulletproof IC is one of the strongest roles to have around. Especially so for the later stages of the game. Given that, there's definitely scum motivation present in trying to discredit and push on us now to attempt to stop us from achieving that status.

~Jae

I don't really disagree with your assessment but out of all the things to comment on it felt like you were irked that burning was not getting picked on over you I said I was worried about you because I've played with you many times before and I know you're a good player so that's what worries me. I don't really care if you're not gonna like me focusing on your role I see a weakpoint with dumb logic and I am going to keep pushing it

you have clear contradictions that I have pointed out that you have yet to address

why is it scum motivation and me not just finding posts scummy can

Fucking hit the enter button too soon,
Anyway I was saying can I not find your posts scummy as town
~Maria

Not sure I buy that was genuinely your read of the situation, but okay.
I see no contradictions, and as such I'm not sure what you're talking about with the bolded, can you elaborate? Just quote the parts of the post you feel I should have addressed that I haven't, if you feel like you already presented it as clearly as you can.
Why does it worry you that I'm a good player? I'm actually of the opposite opinion, but regardless, are you talking town or scum here? Do you think it not possible that you just don't understand fully what is actually ideal play for our role, given what you've known of myself and mastina to date and how we play?
I feel like there's scum motivation in wanting to get rid of the potentially conftown bulletproof if scum doesn't have a strongman to hit us with. Especially so given you believe that both myself and mastina are good players. Is there potential for you as town to find our posts scummy? Maybe? I can't say I'm an expert on following your mindset. I feel like you're more focused on trying to find something wrong with us rather than trying to genuinely read us.

What part of this looks like sucking-up to you? The talking-down thing seems to be more of a stylistic meta point to me based on what I've seen so far in this game than something specific to this post. I bet if you went through my iso looking for points where I have talked down my game you'd find tons of them. It's something I do, partly out of frustration with my limitations, and partly as policy.

193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason

Nominate: No One

- Scott

LUV don't do this again please. Town was actually crippled in civilization mafia from the none pushes.

Calling this out as "trying to play the voice of reason" looks like pure nitpickery to me. (Also, I liked learning about a game where a mechanic was ignored/passed up and how that worked out for town)

239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly

I assume you're talking about the Maria read? What parts did you think were shallow and inconsistent, and why? And what did you think of MariaR's reaction to the post?

257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum

And yet Nacho thought they were fairly decent posts to think came from town-me.

353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

I did a search for "entirely" and "comfortable" in JaeReeds posts using the site search page. I was deluged with posts. It appears that she habitually describes her reads and concerns in terms of how comfortable she is with them. The rest of your observation is meh ok, I guess? I mean I am looking at the True Love mechanic through the lens of my role pm. And in terms of the mechanic, they have speculated quite a bit about it, especially regarding mod meta.

This part in particular looks to me like Mastina's usual highly self-absorbed way of looking at a game, wherein she sees her role (both game role and the role she personally wants to play in every game) as being pivotal.

[Sword of Damocles]

I am back from my V/LA. (Although I will have another one next weekend SORRY IT'S SUMMER WHAT DO YOU EXPECT )

Did a brief catchup, I'm planning to read more in depth in the next few days. There's one thing I'd like to mention right now though. Several people asked me about my reasons for scumreading Senpai. At least one person (morph, if not others) assumed that the BP claim and request for nominations was my only reason to scumread them. It's not, though it is a move I think scum are more likely to make.

I don't like their approach to the game in general and I don't like many of their interactions specifically. I'm planning to make a case in the near future but for now I'll list some of the posts I don't like:
129- a conclusion that doesn't quite follow from the post it responds to, and might be early discrediting of a townread
143- feels very forced and a bit too defensive in response to an early vote
147- feels like sucking up, trying to talk down their reputation to Maria, and an OMGUS-ish implicit threat (stating a reason why scum would push them)
193- sounds like trying to play the voice of reason
239- full of meta and most of it is really shallow and simplistic; also, it admits the fallibility of the meta but doesn't weaken the read accordingly
257- quoted posts don't seem particularly hard to fake as scum
353- the whole "not entirely comfortable giving it to anyone else" sounds way more informed than it should and doesn't strike me as inquisitive town who want to learn more about the mechanic but rather declarative scum who have found what they want to do and are trying to make it happen.
-smart

Smart, we're usually so on the same page! What happened here!?

Like, Senpai is likely to be town! I'll have to read this case more indepth, but I really don't see where you're getting the negative read from!

- Ari

That's adorable.

VOTE: Sword of Damocles

Lol what did I do that's adorable?

GODDAMMIT!!!

I was doing so well!

[morph the cat]

But, the main problem with this case is that it takes the linked posts grossly out of context and tries to create a narrative with them.

A narrative that doesn't hold up to scrutiny in context.

And then, there's the way your slot just strolled right past various gamestate changes without getting involved or even opining.

You don't have a broad view of the game.

[Sword of Damocles]

Morph, I can't speak to 717 as I have a different read.

Sorry, but I have to leave it to Smart.

[morph the cat]

I"m aware that Ari head has disagreed with the case. I don't think that's relevant.

[Sword of Damocles]

But, the main problem with this case is that it takes the linked posts grossly out of context and tries to create a narrative with them.

A narrative that doesn't hold up to scrutiny in context.

And then, there's the way your slot just strolled right past various gamestate changes without getting involved or even opining.

You don't have a broad view of the game.

What have we "strolled past"??

- Ari

[Sword of Damocles]

I"m aware that Ari head has disagreed with the case. I don't think that's relevant.

That's fine

[morph the cat]

I said Clumsy above. I meant smart.