Micro 725: Nomination Mafia | Game Over!

[Chumley]

Checking in. I'll be back sometime around 4:30 PM-6:30PM Central time this evening after I get off work.

VOTE: BTD6_Maker

[Chumley]

Damn this is so slow compared to what I'm used to on my home forum. I've seen games grow a page an hour before.

[Chumley]

Oh, I thought you were making reference to a game we might have played together. That's pretty funny.
Al, yeah that's it exactly. I'm rather fond of rocketry.
VOTE: chumley
Puritans of MS only

My apoligizes for upsetting your well developed mafia sensibilities. I'll be sure to be more sensitive in the future.

[Chumley]

Well developed mafia sensibilities? Me? Oh you poor soul

Well give me time if your a horrid player I'll figure it out. Remember I am new here. UNVOTE: BTD6_Maker VOTE: ConManMick

[Chumley]

just a heads up, it's considered good form on this site to announce when you put someone at

L-1

Thanks I'll take note of that.

[Chumley]

Oh and also @ConMan just because your being helpful to me as an MS newcomer don't think I'll town read you just because of it.

[Chumley]

So Chumley, what's CMM done that's scummy?

Votes are a tool in our quest to find and kill scum. Not every vote means the same thing

[Chumley]

ConMan is currently 1 vote away from being hammered. I'm the vote that placed him as such. Where I come from doing what I just did would be horrible form because it would be suggested I just enabled a mislynch. I'd be called out for it right off. However Alchemist just town read me. Now maybe the meta here is just different than I'm used to but I find this interesting.

[Chumley]

When it only takes 4 votes to lynch here I'm not gonna freak out over an L-1.

To clarify this statement I'm saying it takes so few votes to reach L-1 here that if we place a limit on these wagons from reaching L-1 then the largest our wagons are going to get is 2 votes, which doesn't seem very useful as a wagon to me.

So you don't think 2 votes would provide as much/enough info or am I reading in something that isn't there?

[Chumley]

@Alduskkel What do you think? Your join date would suggest you have a decent amount of experience under your belt.

[Chumley]

Well, hopefully, you respond while I'm gone eating supper. I look forward to whatever insight on the mafia theory of this situation you might be able to add.

[Chumley]

Ate some pretty decent fried chicken. Feeling pretty pumped. Forgot how invigorating it is to play a game full of people you don't know. I've gotten way too reliant on meta-reading people because I know them too well on my home site.

[Chumley]

Right now I have a town read on Alchemist. Posts 37 and 40 seem like a "bold townie" mindset as opposed to the "careful scum" mindset. I disagree with post 36 though,

I think that your view of votes as tool says more about your general thoughts on Mafia theory/gameplay than any sort of alignment indicator.

I agree.

Hypothetically however scum Alchemist could be trying to gradually pocket me by throwing a general show of agreement my way. At the moment though I'm not sure I can justify that level of paranoia. I am curious to hear from @CommKnight considering he stated, "Obvious scum is obvious." in reference to Alchemist when there wasn't much content to go on. I'd like to knw if his viewpoint has changed any.

[Chumley]

I'm heading to bed shortly but I'll check back before I go to work about the same time I did this morning then I'll be back tomorrow evening after I get home. I'm gonna take a shower before bed cya folks

[Chumley]

why is CMM at L-1

Not to get all touchy and everything but I'd really back read the thread if I where you. I mean there really isn't much there but it kinda explains itself.

[Chumley]

I'll be here for a few min. before I go on to work. Expect me back about the same time as before.

[Chumley]

It's really not that hard to divine what is going on here if you just read 1 post after the other following when I placed my vote and down most of pg. 2. What am I suppose to do quote the whole pg. for you? It's taking all the self-control I have not to say something offensive right now. Sad thing is often times ignorance=town

[Chumley]

Look there was 1 post of content from CMM when both of the original votes on him were placed which was "I reckon I will VOTE: BTD6 because wagons are fun". I am the one who placed the initial vote on BTD6 and the initial vote of the entire game. I'm the 1 who put CMM at L-1 and that reason is in black and white along with an in-depth between me, the 1 of the other players on the lynch(Alch), CMM himself, and Alduskkel.

[Chumley]

Somebody else simplify and break down the above if he doesn't get that^ I gotta leave. Work calleth

[Chumley]

Look there was 1 post of content from CMM when both of the original votes on him were placed which was "I reckon I will VOTE: BTD6 because wagons are fun". I am the one who placed the initial vote on BTD6 and the initial vote of the entire game. I'm the 1 who put CMM at L-1 and that reason is in black and white along with an in-depth(Interaction) between me, the 1 of the other players on the lynch(Alch), CMM himself, and Alduskkel.

Correction above

[Chumley]

i dont know if u really understood what i mean when i said that im aware that 3 people put his name in vote tags and what im looking for is the why behind it?

The only reason they had in game was that he was starting a wagon since he had legit 1 post. Although the first vote on him is likly a meta-read based pressure vote from someone who has played with him before.

[Chumley]

VOTE: Chum

The newbness I can understand. L1 isn't much of a scare here before the hammerer would be fucked if it flips town. However, what stands out to me is the fact that the vote that took CMM to L1 was indeed an OMGUS vote none the less. That bit there wouldn't be much if I knew you had a good amount of experience. But seeing as you don't even know what RVS voting is and thus you had to think the votes on CMM were serious that you could sheep and OMGUS vote him for. I have to assume that what you did was newb!Scum.

I also find it odd Alchemist TR's you for your play. To me it doesn't stem from a newb!Townie, but a newb!Scum who is now caught and put into the frying pan.

It wasn't, in fact, an OMGUS vote. I wanted to see how people would react to what would be considered the unpardonable sin of putting a player in hammer range for no good reason where I come from. This test actually is all for not as I soon discover everybody had decided it's no big deal as far as this particular setup is concerned.

Alchemist didn't town read me for my play but rather because I stated, "Votes are a tool in our quest to find and kill scum. Not every vote means the same thing" which not a good reason for a town read at all in my mind because all I did is state what I believe the porpose of votes. I say the same thing no matter my alignment.

Also, something you need to realize is on the site I usually play on the standard day stage lasts from 48-24 hrs and Nights last 36-12 hrs. This concept of RVS in so much as it even exists is usually over with within 2-3 hrs at the longest because of the speed at which we play our games and is usually just a single vote because we have to get serius early. Note I did place a random vote myself which was BTD6_Maker. I am not a newb so far as Mafia is concerned. I was actually sub for my home forum's representative in the MafiaUniverse Championship. However this my first game played at this pace since as mentioned above I'm use to 48 hr MAX day phases.

[Chumley]

Damn it all Grammarly deleted words that actually belonged in that...

[Chumley]

UNVOTE: ConManMick

[Chumley]

VOTE: CommKnight Your whole post above that attempts to frame me as scum comes off as a scum attempt to abuse a perceived flaw in my townie logic and play to set up a potential mislynch and rather than townie scum hunting.

[Chumley]

Grammarly why have you forsook me by correcting my posts incorrectly?

[Chumley]

VOTE: CommKnight Your whole post above that attempts to frame me as scum comes off as a scum attempt to abuse a perceived flaw in my townie logic and play to set up a potential mislynch and rather than townie scum hunting.

Right now it's early in the game and the scummiest player I see is you Chumley, you are OMGUS'ing those who vote you and I know I see it as such.

Also, as for unvoting Alchemist. I can read his slot. Our first game + the reroll gave me that insight. He's a value to have to town and I'd rather not see some idiot LOL-hammer. Even if it gets 1 scum lynched, Alchemist is probably the one person this game I'd say if he's town, he can nail both scum before LYLO. So I'd rather he survive. Plus, my vote was a RVS vote. I don't want him at L1. There's no PRs to claim, so the only reason to keep someone at L1 is to push for a lynch or a readslist or something more specific. Alchemist is active enough right now that there's nothing to push him for besides someone wanting him lynched.

Either you are indeed scum or you have a slightly abrasive aggro-town playstyle. It's one or the other. If it's option number 1 well I've found my man. If it's option number 2 cool your jets dude because you're on the wrong track.

You know something that would be hilarious if Alchemist and CommKnight where the scum team. Alch town reads me and it's completely unjustified and I'll be honest personally I do feel like I actually deserve a 2nd look but I sincerly hope he doesn't end up tunneling me to the detriment of productive scum hunting if he is actually town.

[Chumley]

he=CommKnight in the 2nd line talking about how I deserve a 2nd look^

[Chumley]

@CommKnight for context on the format I'm used to playing: http://duelistgroundz.com/index.php?/to ... 3/&page=12 It's actually a 24 hr/24 hr phase setup and day can start early if all night actions are sent in quickly. It has 2 pretty quick hammer votes on scum on day 2 and 3. And get this it ended after 3 physical days on an in-game Day 3. I mean I come from a land of mafia wild men who live on the edge playing at frantic pace.

[Chumley]

Well CK clearly ain't responding any time tonight. I'll check back in te morning before work. Good night everyone

[Chumley]

Well, I don't thinkI have anything to add other than boy, oh boy is CK a flaw picker lol. I'll back this evening after. Good luck and good scum hunting while I'm gone.

[Chumley]

The fact he still hasn't replied to the RVS part where he put CMM to L1 with thinking both votes before it was serious That shows intent to want to put Alchemist in the range of the noose. Whether he was trying to reaction test or not. His vote was reckless and unwarranted.

To be perfectly honest how serious or not serious the votes prior to me placing CMM at T-1 were didn't play much into me placing the vote as a reaction test. Yeah, it may have been reckless and unwarranted. To be honest I expected that to be the general responseI'd received for doing it. As far as the whole RVS debacle goes the whole thing was or so it seemed was that rb actually thought CMM had done something that warranted him being at T-1 when there simply was no good reason as far as most setups go. Although we had a rather lengthy discussion on how because of the small size of the game T-2 simply doesn't apply enough pressure and so T-1 isn't actually that big a deal.

[Chumley]

Well, good night. Good luck and good scum hunting. I'll check back in when I wake up in the morning.

[Chumley]

Also, what do you think of Chumley calling you a "flaw picker"?

If CommKnight was cool he'd snap back and respond with this to that question:

[Chumley]

@BTD6_maker I look forward to seeing your thoughts on the other players myself included.

[Chumley]

@CommKnight What do you think about Ockham's razor's applications in mafia?

[Chumley]

Hmm, not much content since my last post. I agree you @rb that CMM vote by CK is horrid.

[Chumley]

Just thought I'd mention I'm still alive. Seems the game has screeched to a near halt I guess because of July 4th festivities

[Chumley]

Sorry about my brief period of inactivity I subbed into a game on another forum but it's over now

[Chumley]

Fuck it
VOTE: BTD6

Explain beyond that if you can

[Chumley]

@Chumley: What do you think of CK's more recent posts? How important is it to you that he answer your question in post 129? ("What do you think about Ockham's razor's applications in mafia?")

On the question that it be answered isn't really a biggy it was just my attempt to get some dialog going. I got a job I gotta do but I'll be back later.

[Chumley]

Oh me now I understand why some people hate it when meta reads become a big part of how some people play. I know neither of you and I'm not sure I'm gaining anything by reading this particular interaction. Just makes my head hurt to be honest.

[Chumley]

I can't tell if BTD actually finished his ISO read of Alduskkel or not. 117 points to one thing that they think is suspicious but then write it off as NAI, then the rest of the post (which is also the majority of it) just goes off on a tangent about Mafia theory without adding to BTD's read on Alduskkel. It doesn't seem like he's actually trying to read the slot.

VOTE: BTD

CK, are you going to respond to post 107?

And I'd have to agree with Alchemist. BTD wrote a lot without actually saying anything about what his read on me is.

Also why does Alchemist still have 2 vote on him

Alright, Chumley, does seeing these two posts help you understand it?

Here's the thing. He said he'd form a read on Ald's slot, then posted a bunch of filler instead. Without the meta, it's still scummy.

The meta part simply strenthens the scumread in my view. You shouldn't need the meta to understand where the scumread is originating from.

Yeah I think I get where you are coming from here. Remind me how many days till EoD?

[Chumley]

For anyone who's not aware:

Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-11 08:00:00)

Damn it's getting close. Really need to hit a scum too

[Chumley]

UNVOTE: CommKnight

[Chumley]

VOTE: Alduskkel

[Chumley]

VOTE: Alduskkel

So are you going to explain this or not? Just because I SR him doesn't mean I'll accept naked votes either.

Who said I'm basing it on your list?

[Chumley]

@Alduskkel what's your read on the current progression towards BTD6 that a lot of people are currently on?

[Chumley]

The above sounds redundant but you now what I mean. Anyhow gotta go to bed now.

[Chumley]

Just got back home from work. I really wish you guys hadn't hammered BTD6. I had a bad feeling he was gonna be a mislynch and that scum was somewhere in the transition onto him. I was gonna get back on later and try to make a case for him being town but then I get back on and boom you guys had mislynched him. I was going to see about putting some pressure on Alduskkel because I suspected him of being scum on a mislynch but of course, he's off the table today. To be honest I'm uncertain of my choices. I have to say I'm most worried about Alchemist21 because I've come to the point since the prior day phase that I honestly believe CommKnight is sincere but Alchemist21 he just strikes me as being a possible sum doing a "helpful" townie routine that seems overdone. All in all prior day phase I was tending towards town reading on both but VOTE: Alchemist21

[Chumley]

Please note of course Alduskkel was on the CommKnight lynch at the time which you now I considered by that point to be town but he basically voiced the opinion that BTD6 was scum and I expected him to switch in on BTD6 since CK wasn't a viable lynch but interestingly he didn't.

[Chumley]

@ConManMick when you show back up I'm curious to know who do you think is scummier CommKnight or Alchemist21?

[Chumley]

Also please note as I've mentioned before in the past I'll be leaving for work shortly and won't be back till after PM Central Time probably sometime between 4-6 PM

[Chumley]

I can't know what you're doing in real life, but you had most of July 8th, a Saturday, to say something. Why didn't you get around to it?

I worked on Saturday and it was my baby sister's 2nd birthday

[Chumley]

Good evening guys. If we are all 3 towns I'm probably the weakest link since I have a busy schedule and I'm playing a game elsewhere. I'd be willing to take it for the team if need be. No need to rush anything though we should try and get as much info out of the day phase as possible. UNVOTE: Alchemist21

[Chumley]

What do you think of the other 3 right now?

CommKnight just strikes me as being genuine and consistent in what would appear to be his playstyle. You don't strike me as being obviously scummy but you do come off at times like you're trying extra hard to maintain your townie appearance and so you give me some mild unease.

[Chumley]

What do you think of the other 3 right now?

CommKnight just strikes me as being genuine and consistent in what would appear to be his playstyle. You don't strike me as being obviously scummy but you do come off at times like you're trying extra hard to maintain your townie appearance and so you give me some mild unease.

I was talking about the 3 outside the lynch pool.

Aldu=scum and I'll be honest right now beyond that I'm not sure.

[Chumley]

VOTE: alchemist

i think this is the right thing to d0

I assume then that you think he is actually scum?

[Chumley]

@Vedith before I make any further comments on my reads if you wouldn't mind backreading and giving your thoughts. I wouldn't mind reading your initial pre-backread thoughts though so if you got some post it up

[Chumley]

I'm sure I can manage 13 pages.

Skipping through and just reading the major interactions and then ISOing each player individually sounds like a chore but to be honest, you'll get through it faster and you'll get a much better understanding of the gamestate and more precise reads that way than just reading each post one after another.

[Chumley]

Comm - why are you town?

Better yet why is he scum?

[Chumley]

Comm is Scum.

But why? Lay the case out for me. If you are town it's your job to show me why you read somebody as town or scum.

[Chumley]

But why? Lay the case out for me. If you are town it's your job to show me why you read somebody as town or scum.

No, my job is to find scum.

DUDE doesn't matter if you find every scum on day 1 if you don't convey why to the rest of town! You didn't back read, or ISO, like I told you, did you?

[Chumley]

But why? Lay the case out for me. If you are town it's your job to show me why you read somebody as town or scum.

Comm is scum. If you think I'm wrong, you can tell me why but I'm pretty biased.

Is it a meta read on your part? Have you played with Comm a pretty good deal enough to know when he is scum?

[Chumley]

No I didn't read.
Why are you town? Last time I ask before I set myself to you and Comm as scum.

Well, the fact that I'm more than willing to be the mislynch if required on the assumption that the current pool is all town and I believe Comm and Alch would be more valuable alive on the assumption, of course, they are town should be telling.

[Chumley]

Is it a meta read on your part? Have you played with Comm a pretty good deal enough to know when he is scum?

Yeah, me and Comm are best friends IRL.

Interesting then at least I would hope you could ISO him and break down for town why his behavior is indicative of his scum rather than town game and then boom we have a shot at making the correct lynch.

[Chumley]

Good evening guys. If we are all 3 towns I'm probably the weakest link since I have a busy schedule and I'm playing a game elsewhere. I'd be willing to take it for the team if need be. No need to rush anything though we should try and get as much info out of the day phase as possible. UNVOTE: Alchemist21

@Vedith

[Chumley]

He answered me in a scum way to why he should be town.
I think that scum could be Ald and Comm.

Before I explain why on this, how did we get to choosing the 3 people for lynch? Who chose exactly because I wasn't told if I put any names forward.
If everyone chose 3 names, who chose what and why?

The setup is open. Scum choose the 3.

[Chumley]

Be back this evening central standard time. I gotta be heading into work

[Chumley]

Vedith, I swear to fuck if you're town I'm going to rip into you post-game. You're making me SR you over Aldu (and actually making me think Aldu is TOWN). If it's Aldu/Alch or Aldu/rb and you screwed this up for town by being scummy as usual. I'm going to haunt you.

Also, this is something scum Comm would say.
Thou art too obvious.

Give me evidence that town CK acts differently and maybe you persuade me and the rest of town. How have you bullshitted your way this long without becoming an auto policy lynch in every game you play?

[Chumley]

Give me evidence that town CK acts differently and maybe you persuade me and the rest of town. How have you bullshitted your way this long without becoming an auto policy lynch in every game you play?

Because I still give results
We lynch Comm today, I've decided.

Point me to the games where your nonsense gave results. Give some foundation to what you post.

[Chumley]

What do you think of the other 3 right now?

CommKnight just strikes me as being genuine and consistent in what would appear to be his playstyle. You don't strike me as being obviously scummy but you do come off at times like you're trying extra hard to maintain your townie appearance and so you give me some mild unease.

Just gonna drop this because apparently, people have forgotten my paranoia that Alch might be scum playing helpful town

[Chumley]

Bad vote

Chumley is town

Yeah but if this is an all town lynch pool I'd rather die here than lose Alch and CK. Alch is clearly a more experienced player than me and CommKnight's meta knowledge is going to be paramount to solving the Vedith issue tomorrow. If either of them flips scum they deserve the win because their performance has been amazing.

[Chumley]

You see how easy a town block can fade when pressure is applied?
What did you get from my games posted, Chumley.

That you have a playstyle that attempts to appear null at all times so when you flip scum people will struggle to find you from a meta standpoint. The strat works. I know it does because that used to be my playstyle but in the long run, it weakens your town game just for sake of boosting your scum game and depending on what site you're playing on it can lead to a cycle of you being mislynched and policy lynched as town for "low effort"

[Chumley]

I get lynched a lot more as Scum than town.
That's because as Scum I avoid the game. I avoid being loud.

So your theory here is wrong.

You got a spreadsheet or something proving that? And as I mentioned "other sites" places like MafiaUniverse or DGz. There the common impulse would be to remove you early before anyone else because question marks obscure town's ability to pin down scum and if you always look null that always leaves people guessing.

[Chumley]

I find it funny when people go "on my site". This isn't on your site. This is on my site.
You can check any of my Scum games to town games. I am very vocal as town. So if your only argument is meta related... I just stopped it.

Typing a bunch of words and actually benefitting town are 2 different things in their entirety

[Chumley]

VOTE: Chumley

[Chumley]

Lynch this moron tomorrow^ Chumley out.

[Chumley]

[Chumley]

Wait, I just realized Chumley hammered himself.

In a way I'm annoyed, but at the same time I can't wait to get to Day 3 where we can lynch whomever we want.

It takes 4 to lynch though right? I put myself in 1 from the hammer, didn't I?

[Chumley]

Pretty sure the Plurality rule only applies to EoD but either way I'm still convinced we're working with an all town lynch pool and I see no reason why I shouldn't be the one to take it for the team

[Chumley]

So what are you gonna do if Chumley flips town?

Spoiler:

I do by the way