Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[scamper]

aaaaah i kinda wish you hadn't told me that

:/

i wanted to lay my cards on the table

to briefly expand on this - when i was reading through the hood, coral's posts felt *manipulative*. it felt like she was pushing ausuka and you toward her desired goal, that she was putting out feelers to see see if either of you would bite on a push. in particular, when i scumcased her in the min thread, i had thought i might be wrong because she responded so calmly, and that felt towny to me. but now i see behind the scenes she was trying to work you and ausuka to see me as scum for it. and i think the fact she did that there and not in the main thread is +scum. it also felt like a lot of her posts were performative, that she said things that were maybe unnautral or odd for a townie to say to make it look lie she was thinking about things. what i didn't see a lot of was the "nuanced solving" she is talking up here.


by contrast, your posts just felt more natural. the in the moment reactions to stuff, the demeanor, it was all believable to me and kind of what i was looking for from you that i didn't quite see in the main thread

[Datisi]

VOTE: coral

i'm so sorry if this is wrong

i wish i had more time and i wish i wasn't feeling so utterly braindead right now but

i've gone through the game and coral being scum makes more sense to me than scamper being scum. maybe i'm wrong. i'm usually wrong. i did think about my "vote the opposite of who you think it is" idea i had after i lost the last yeetlo i was in, but i don't think i can

i don't think i'll be changing my mind here so if scamper is scum, end the game, and if not there is at least a bit more time left for discussion if needed

[Coral]

scamper?

[scamper]

i really don't think i come up with the thought process in that post as scum, though - there's too much going on when my win condition is either to get you to vote coral or wait out the timer

[Datisi]

scamper please i'm feeling nauseous

pedit: oh thank fuck

[scamper]

i am town. i contemplated quickhammering for kicks but don't want to be impulsive. let me finish eating dinner and i will be back.

[scamper]

til then state your cases

[Coral]

oh god dammit

i should be happy but i wanted to be right

[Datisi]

holy shit i think i stopped breathing for a bit there

i have to start getting ready for bed, but i'll do my best to try to answer things if you need me to

[Coral]

VOTE: datisi

[scamper]

actually, quick question that i wanted to remember to ask: datisi, why did you not see your role and coral's as a difference check on day 3? from my pov it was clear that it didn't make sense for all 3 of don/datisi/coral's claims to be town in a micro, and you've designed and hosted a lot of games...

[Coral]

I don't even know if I have anything to say, I still barely believe it. but ill try

[Datisi]

actually, quick question that i wanted to remember to ask: datisi, why did you not see your role and coral's as a difference check on day 3? from my pov it was clear that it didn't make sense for all 3 of don/datisi/coral's claims to be town in a micro, and you've designed and hosted a lot of games...

i have also read a lot of how nrg balances games. it's what i said on d3 (was it d3? idk), even if 3 clears happen on d2, that is still a 50% ev for scum, assuming there's 2 of them alive. that's not a *great* way of balancing games, but it is one that gets used sometimes.

then the fact that if all our roles are true, then there's a possibility that there's only one clear on d2, as both me and don are unreliable investigatives. and *that* is not even getting into the fact that scum can kill one before they get their shot off (like happened here), and that is also not accounting what roles scum may have to counter those investigatives

like the setup would've been very swingy obviously, but any normal with a lot of unreliable investigatives is going to be swingy. swing is not a requirement for balance

[scamper]

ok

uhm, another one: when you started to say you thought it was coral last night and leading into day, how do i know you weren't just telling me what i wanted to hear, since i was visibly agitated by being tunneled by coral?

[Coral]

to briefly expand on this - when i was reading through the hood, coral's posts felt *manipulative*. it felt like she was pushing ausuka and you toward her desired goal, that she was putting out feelers to see see if either of you would bite on a push. in particular, when i scumcased her in the min thread, i had thought i might be wrong because she responded so calmly, and that felt towny to me. but now i see behind the scenes she was trying to work you and ausuka to see me as scum for it. and i think the fact she did that there and not in the main thread is +scum. it also felt like a lot of her posts were performative, that she said things that were maybe unnautral or odd for a townie to say to make it look lie she was thinking about things. what i didn't see a lot of was the "nuanced solving" she is talking up here.

I understand that it probably doesn't feel good to see that I was responding to things in there but not in here. I genuinely thought that it was the best way to help town win the game. I was probably wrong, seeing as we ended up here. But I don't think that me doing that in the hood actually benefited me in any way? If I know that I'm adding you anyway and going to f3 with you and Datisi. It just doesn't help me as scum.

I know you'll probably vote for me and I don't blame you, I just couldn't see scum Datisi and it's on me for not being findable as town.

I think that although I think he played day 1 in a very towny way, ever since then he's been more scummy. 1197 is an example of it. He's just been kind of sitting around waiting for town to push town, and then being ready to be in position afterwards, and trying not to get in their way. The way that he entered ELO was scummy, piggybacking on my point about your Meg progression and then nitpicking it to death. You were right to call that out. I think that this whole day phase he hasn't really done any serious solving, he's been focused on just matching tone and waiting for us to end up on each other.

[Datisi]

til then state your cases

this is going to be mostly rambly and a mess and mostly me repeating myself, but

the biggest things i can point at that show coral being scum is her reactions to the fact i was going to be the one voting first. like, the way she was kinda calm about it and showing some token vague reasons for maybe me being scum. and the idea that scum picking their 1v1 is somehow bad is lol because the other option is that there's a chance town literally just loses. it's trying to justify choices that were made to benefit scum!her. she didn't wanna 1v1 you because that was probably not gonna end well for her and she knows that

it really sucks that i had a weak-er day 1 here than usual, bc i was busy irl and also in multiple ongoings at the time, but i think my play has been pretty town this game, especially if you know my meta. i don't wanna talk longer about this unless you want me to bc you said you dislike some forms of self-meta and i don't wanna fuck the game up now, but

it's also annoying because my reasons for deciding to vote coral weren't so much her being scum than they were finding you townie for things that i thought were unlikely to come from scum-you with partner-galron (trying to placate arivaus, lolvoting me but not even trying to push on me properly, etc.) but you already know your alignment so idk how helpful this is for anything

[Coral]

I know we've gone over like everything in the game already but I can answer questions if you have them.

[Coral]

tbh Datisi's reasons for townreading you were incredibly weak and I should have seen through that they wouldn't have genuinely come from him as town

[Datisi]

ok

uhm, another one: when you started to say you thought it was coral last night and leading into day, how do i know you weren't just telling me what i wanted to hear, since i was visibly agitated by being tunneled by coral?

can you be more specific about which parts of the game you're talking about? idk what "last night" is for you

but also i don't think scum-me tries to bet the game on you getting annoyed at coral pushing you, when (1) you have shown that you are very capable of townreading town that is being annoying/unreasonable (eg. meg), (2) coral has been lowkey aligning to vote you for a while now, like even before start of d3 she says she thinks it's more likely you than me, and doesn't really change her mind much there

like i'm just choosing a harder path for myself when that is something i wouldn't want to do not would enjoy doing

[scamper]

But I don't think that me doing that in the hood actually benefited me in any way?

it has the very obvious effect of not having me be able to respond to you arguments at that time, and if you are scum you entered today with the plan of pushing me to begin with, presumably because you assumed i was likely to vote you. that would mean it wouldn't matter if i saw it at that point.


but, i can see 1197 being a scum post. that is a way to play that gamestate as scum. that is why i had doubts about datisi. but i also felt as though the way you went about it, burying xayah and then meg with over the top certainty - that is *also* something i could see coming from scum

[Coral]

I just don't feel like he ever really engaged with the game on a deeper level. I did, and I did it badly and came to the wrong conclusions, but I tried.

[scamper]

ok

uhm, another one: when you started to say you thought it was coral last night and leading into day, how do i know you weren't just telling me what i wanted to hear, since i was visibly agitated by being tunneled by coral?

can you be more specific about which parts of the game you're talking about? idk what "last night" is for you

but also i don't think scum-me tries to bet the game on you getting annoyed at coral pushing you, when (1) you have shown that you are very capable of townreading town that is being annoying/unreasonable (eg. meg), (2) coral has been lowkey aligning to vote you for a while now, like even before start of d3 she says she thinks it's more likely you than me, and doesn't really change her mind much there

like i'm just choosing a harder path for myself when that is something i wouldn't want to do not would enjoy doing

i meant the past 24 hours or so basically

[scamper]

I just don't feel like he ever really engaged with the game on a deeper level. I did, and I did it badly and came to the wrong conclusions, but I tried.

show me where you engaged with the game on a "deeper level". if it's in the hood point me to it there

[Datisi]

i can see 1197 being a scum post

1197 was a "oh shit oh fuck the person i have a neap-guilty on just heavily softed a pr, fuck what do i do"

i didn't wanna look like an idiot for pushing a pr out, and also from that point on i knew that either meg gets killed (problem solved), i get killed (people probably understand and meg has already locked themselves into claiming pr anyway), or neither of us die and i can continue my push on d3

[scamper]

pretty savvy answer, i see the context now