Micro 753: Votefuckery (Game Over)

[northsidegal]

hey all! typically i only replace into games that i've been following along with, but for this one i've only read a bit. i read the first parts of the thread about up through page 8 and i've also read the most recent parts of the thread. i'll do a full reread now. anything speficially anyone would like to tell me?

[northsidegal]

by the way, my predecessor wasn't lying - i'm a universal backup.

[northsidegal]

oh my gosh this game was a lot easier to read when you two didn't have the same avatar.

[northsidegal]

Next person to post is scum

Because you havent seen a trend of me coming in and posting 5 or 6 times in a row as I catch up so this definitely was a random statement and not an attempt to call me scum....

Yeah no. You've played with me before and hsve plenty of experience with my posting style to know this would land on me. Nice joke though snd way to hide your scumread of me behind a meme

i don't think not mafia needs to hide his scumreads of people behind things like that - he doesn't really need (or rather, he doesn't typically use) a huge excuse to just say that people are scum.

do you scumread him for that?

[northsidegal]

right, but what are you saying he accomplishes by doing that? are you giving some kind of motivation to it or are you just annoyed?

[northsidegal]

apologies - i have a lot going on and a lot to read. i can post what i have to say in my defense although i'm still working on forming reads on other people - a lot of space this game was spent on an argument that i don't really think has a lot to do with alignment.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: ASP

Vote stays until he catches up or gets replaced.

although i'm still working on forming reads on other people

Where are you at, at least at a somewhat high level, right now?

okay, so there are 9 people in this game. i have absolutely no idea how to read alisae, beeboy and sakura. beeboy's getting the votes frozen was a really questionable move but everything from there involving those three i think goes outside of the realm of the game and into the personal. not only can i not read into that, but i don't think i would really want to. i'm sorry for this sort of cop out on these people, but i honestly have no idea how to approach that. hopefully going forward we can ignore all that and i can get a clearer picture.

i liked maru's initial catch up post but nothing else from that iso really does anything for me and i left the recent interactions i had with maru feeling strange. maru's read progression on sheep was weird but i could reasonably see it as wanting a flip to move the game along, would like others' input on that.

a simple plan hasn't really added anything - posts like 220, 394 and 390 spend a lot of time talking about the argument, game experience and other things not really relevant to scumhunting.

not mafia is, as always, an enigma. despite his meta, as town i would typically expect him to have reads that he would be pursuing, even if he doesn't give explanations, ie he would pick up on something and then start voting that person for it, even if he wouldn't really make a case. i don't think he's really done that this game. there was the fake hammer in 516, but i'm not sure that really means anything.

i'm pretty confident sobolev is town. this comes from both the play in 475 and from agreeing with your analysis in 539. i know for a fact that i'm town, so it makes no sense for a scum sobolev to post 475, confirming my slot as town (which is how i interpret that series of events). if you disagree, i'd like to hear your reasoning why on this. i could see how it'd be reasonable to read both sobolev and my slot as scum and see 475 as a play deliberately orchestrated in daychat to confirm this slot, although that thesis should be disproven tomorrow (more on this later).

i also think you're town, although truthfully it's more of just a gut lean. i like your analysis and i think you're questioning things that others just take for granted, so to me i would think that comes from town.

also, i'd like to confirm that there's nothing vote-related invovled with my role. how do you guys suggest i do this?

[northsidegal]

i already know that there's nothing vote-related currently involved in my role. i'm asking how i should prove it to you guys.

mechanically i should be confirmed town tomorrow - either through being the nightkill or by inheriting the nightkill's abilities. i should make it obvious today that i don't have any vote abilities so that when they manifest themselves tomorrow, everyone can clearly see the distinction.

[northsidegal]

so it makes no sense for a scum sobolev to post 475, confirming my slot as town

lol

i guess i should clarify, i didn't write out enough of what was going on inside my head there. presumably you already knew that you couldn't hammer people, so presumably when you made 475 you knew that it would be interpreted by everyone as a hammer. with that in mind, making that play as scum doesn't make sense - if you knew that sheep was town then you would know that he would say something to that effect after he believed that he was hammered. it doesn't make sense as scum to confirm someone as town, so therefore it makes sense that you're town.

am i making a mistake anywhere here?

[northsidegal]

Nsg I wasn't really in the ones getting personal moreso I was just trying to stop it.

I feel like you're taking the easy way out with your reads right now :/

this is by far the most work-intensive game i've ever been involved with. every other game i've either been there from the start or replaced in having already been following along. this game, i hadn't read that much and rereading was made only worse by the pages-long argument and the fact that two of the most prolific posters have the exact same avatar. i apologize for not giving a read on your slot, but i really don't think i can make any sort of informed opinion. i wouldn't want to fabricate something when i don't have anything just for the sake of having a read, so i'm not going to. for what it's worth your concern ovr my reads seems town-motivated.

[northsidegal]

Also I don't really care about your role since that's not AI and it never will be except IC.

I feel like that post could come any alignment its not AI

people have expressed suspicion about that role being in a vote-related game, so even if it does not confirm to you that i'm town it will confirm that i'm not lying about being a universal backup.

also north wouldn't you inherit the role of today's lynch as opposed to the NK?

ah, you're correct.

[northsidegal]

or are u trying to NK me tonight and get an easy mislynch by "confirming" that you're now a priest

consider that me intentionally attempting the plan that you're suggesting requires nobody noticing exactly what you just noticed.

[northsidegal]

I actually am really confused on why people are questioning the universal backup claim, like thats a super awful fake claim to make before a flip has happened.

Why do you think your role can only be put in the hands of town?

i don't think that - from an outside perspective, i think it could be

possible

that it's a scum role, but i would think it'd be unlikey. i would think scum this game would have some kind of "scummy" role that could more actively be used against like secret double voting, choosing to make someone hated the next day phase, being able to freeze someone's vote, gaining some kind of special night action if you hammer, etc.

having scum as a universal backup just in terms of balance would be risky, i'd imagine. i'm not going to try to outguess / play the mod here, though. i never suggested that universal backup could only be town, i'm just saying that i will be confirmed as universal backup. hopefully that being confirmed combined with my play will do enough to clear suspicion on my slot.

[northsidegal]

Ur play isn't town

could you elaborate?

in defense of my predecessor, lurking is non-alignment indicative, especially for a chronic lurker like sheep. i don't think it really means anything (well, i know for a fact that it's not a scumtell, but i'm coming at this from other people's perpsectives). if the entire wagon on him came from his active lurking, shouldn't i be given a chance to try to make up for his lack of content?

[northsidegal]

I don't care about the lurking and I could case him easily without using the word lurk

I think your content could easily come from scum and you haven't really done anything that is flat out townie

well i hope you can at least understand that i've been put in kind of a hard position here.

i can't entirely explain or excuse sheep's actions so i hope you'll try to approach my slot from a fresh perspective.

Do you think Sakura is scum?

i'm not sure. it seems like the kind of role that would come from scum, although i wouldn't base an entire read on that. i haven't really got a chance to interact with her yet and i didn't get a good read from reading the thread or her iso, so i'd say she's null for me right now.

[northsidegal]

My read on you is that you kinda look like you're openwolfing and when it comes to reads you aren't really doing anything that easily stands out from the crowd, you're not trying to progress the gamestate, you're not being town.

okay, i don't really know how to respond to that except to disagree and hope that i can prove you wrong.

Just curious as to why you called out that role in particular in your "examples of scum roles" when it was the only one that someone here has outed as having. Figured you had a read on the slot.

of what we know of the roles so far it seems the most likely to me to belong to scum, along with not being able to hammer. despite this, both player's play seems to contradict any sort of obvious scumminess that would come from their roles - i wouldn't expect scum to make it clear that nobody should vote them if it would freeze the votes and i don't think sobolev would do the fake hammer if she were scum.

[northsidegal]

part of the reason that i haven't said anything is that i don't know what to say. nobody seems to care at all about what i'm saying. does nobody want to comment on my logic on the fake hammer? my reads? barely anyone has actually responded to what i've said - they've just maintained that they still scumread my slot.

[northsidegal]

the argument that ur cleared by the fake hammer is bad tho. in a game called votefuckery its reasonable for scum to expect that any hammer could be fake and react accordingly.

i appreciate you at least responding. do you think that that's what happened in this situation? i think the far more likely explanation is that people are trying to reconcile what happened with their scumreads on me, eschewing typical rules of intuition and occam's razor to maintain the belief that i'm scum. what's

your

case on me? what was your case on sheep? when you did your catchup you just placed him at the bottom of your readslist without any commentary except that the claim was bad. why did you even make the fake hammer if you were just going to ignore the result anyways? it's confirmation bias - you didn't get the response that you hoped for so you discarded the results. in a typical game i would never make this point becaues it could easily be determined that the hammer was fake, but in this game there was zero indication that you couldn't hammer. yeah, it's not a huge leap to make that there would be someone who couldn't hammer in a game like this, but do you think that's the thought process that went through scum sheep's mind? if so, why? i would be more inclined to think he'd try to play up his towniness in his final moments if he were scum faking.

part of the reason that i haven't said anything is that i don't know what to say. nobody seems to care at all about what i'm saying. does nobody want to comment on my logic on the fake hammer? my reads? barely anyone has actually responded to what i've said - they've just maintained that they still scumread my slot.

Who do you want to see lynched?
Is there anything in particular you that would help you sort Sakura, Ali and I?

given the vote freezing limiting the pool of potential lynches and my current reads i'd probably say a simple plan.

i don't understand what the argument against my slot is, i don't understand what the current points against me are and i don't understand what i could possibly do to change anyone's mind. give a readslist maybe? i just want some indication of people's thought processes because people seem to come to conclusions without explaining how they reached that conclusion, despite the process being far more important than the actual result. anyone can pick a random name and give a read - looking into the way that someone thinks and how they arrive to their conclusions will tell you far more about their alignment, but this game i'm having trouble seeing that.

I don't care about the lurking and I could case him easily without using the word lurk

could you do this?

[northsidegal]

like do u really believe that he thought the hammer was serious? don't u think town!sheep would at least try to offer some final reads or something instead of saying "oh lol i'm town actually"

sheep quite clearly did not care about this game or did not have the time to put basically any effort into it - i think it makes sense entirely that that would also extend to after he had been hammered. do you think he even had reads at that point in the game to give? i don't know why you would expect a town sheep to suddenly become a lot more interested in the game right after he thought he had been removed from it. his lackadasical atititude makes sense entirely within context, to me. also, you ignored a lot of my questions - i would appreciate if you could respond when you get the chance.

[northsidegal]

funny, i thought all four recent posts came from you, alisae.

[northsidegal]

could you do this?

I already did this :/

are you talking about 423?

His reads had 0 depth to them and he had almost no confidence in any of them, kinda just felt like a low confidence sheep of the general conensus

right, and what i'm arguing is that it's entirely obvious that he didn't care about this game or didn't have the time necessary to play it, so what exactly makes his behavior come from scum rather than it being non-alignment indicative? for that matter, what makes his behavior come from scum and not bored townie with a role that doesn't come into play until the next day? for reasons more than just me knowing my own alignment i'm fairly confident that this is sheep's meta.

NSG Sheep's reaction and Sobolev Fakehammering is yous not alignment indicative please stop argueing it is ty in advance

gee, guess that settles it then.

[northsidegal]

is that really all you have to say on sheep? what about on me? is it really just what you said in 706?

i'm not going to let you get away with trying to push my lynch on a lazy case when pretty much the entire reason that my wagon is on me in the first place is my slot's apathy. for the person who's said that i'm taking the easy way out with my reads and who's pushed my slot for being noncommital, your readslist really doesn't do anything for me.

VOTE: alisae

[northsidegal]

i think i realize now why i had a lot of trouble reading through the thread and trying to understand people's positions - i was looking for content that wasn't actually there.

[northsidegal]

Yeah its hard to commit when there are litterally 6 slots not being town.

I think your push on me is what a caught wolf looks like
glgl

maybe if you just repeat that you think i'm scum enough times other people will believe it.

[northsidegal]

right, and what i'm arguing is that it's entirely obvious that he didn't care about this game or didn't have the time necessary to play it, so what exactly makes his behavior come from scum rather than it being non-alignment indicative? for that matter, what makes his behavior come from scum and not bored townie with a role that doesn't come into play until the next day? for reasons more than just me knowing my own alignment i'm fairly confident that this is sheep's meta.

I am talking about ASP.

oh, i thought you were alisae. the point still stands, i guess.

[northsidegal]

I like how we have claims out of over half the slots in this game.
Pretty 10/10 MS gameplay.

i mean, compared to a regular game it's a little hard to avoid noticing or having to explain roles like "all of the votes get frozen if i get voted", right?

[northsidegal]

oh, huh. i forgot that my vote was locked. i guess it's got a dramatic effect to it, at least.

[northsidegal]

Questions that I want answered that I bet those who are "TL;DR" won't see, so I'll post out here instead:

northsidegal

: In reference to your role do you get to pick when to act as a backup to a person's role, or are you compulsive and will automatically backup whoever we lynch?

northsidegal

: Why would you receive the nightkill's abilities but not the daykill's instead?

Alisea, northsidegal, beeboy

: Since you guys don't have a vote, and I am the hammer-ing vote, what are your opinions of the ASP wagon, and do you want me to hammer it?

it's compulsive, and when i said that i'd get the nightkill it was a mistake. i'm fairly certain that i'll just inherit the first dead person's ability, regardless of alignment and whether it was a lynch or a nightkill. out of the viable lynch options today i think i would prefer alisae, but given that i don't think that's going to happen i'm fine with the asp wagon.

696 696 reminds me that she is trying to prove that she isn't lying about her role earlier, and she says that while confirming her role won't confirm her as town bould would confirm she wasn't lying about her role. Why did she even bring up her "won't confirm me as town" if she truly believes she is already confirmed town? Her earlier post regarding explaining her read on sobolev she takes for granted she is confirmed and doesn't explain how she is confirmed, just explains how sobolev's confirming her confirms him as well. Meaning she doesn't think she needs to explain how she is confirmed town because it's just *so obvious*. And yet now she's saying that if we confirm her role it doesn't confirm she's town, but confirm's she isn't lying. why would she says that if we already should be thinking she is confirmed town? The earlier post about sobolev's "lol" seems like the obtuseness towards what he was really laughing at is faked now.

they were two different contexts - the thing with the fake hammer was a whole different argument that i'm not going to go over again, but this was in the context of the universal backup. regardless of the legitimacy of the fake hammer point and regardless of whether or not i was confirmed town, i was conceding the point that proving that i'm a universal backup wouldn't alone confirm me as town. at the time i was saying that you should already be thinking i was confirmed town for a different reason, but when it came to the universal backup point, it wouldn't confirm anyone as

town

per se, just not as lying.

708 saying that outing that you are a NU as scum wouldn't be likely so even though she thinks the vote-locking mechanic is a mechanic more likely to be scum-power than town-nerf, counters that with "claiming your role hurts town in first post is very not-scummy" which I disagree with. Claiming you have a role that VISIBLY and CAN BE TRACED TO YOU in your first post is a very common thing to do as scum or town. Because if you don't claim it, and you activate later, it gives massive scummy points, and scum will always emulate townplay, and good townplay with a NU role is to claim it. Good townplay-mechanics do not towny-points make. All scum should react to mechanics as if they are town, to avoid scumpoints.

i agree with you in principle here but for this point specifically i might disagree. if the vote freezing could confirmably be traced back to sakura then i think you would be right, but i'm not entirely sure that's the case here. given the time it would take the mod to announce that votes were frozen i think it could be reasonably explained away by a scum sakura that scum have the ability to pm the mod to freeze the votes, rather than it being a consequence of someone voting sakura. of course, it does come down to a playstyle difference - is sakura the kind of player who, as scum, would be confident in her ability to argue that point? if the answer is no, then you're right - both scum sakura and town sakura would reveal the freezing effect.

778 keeps trying to peddle the reaction test

this post has nothing to do with the reaction test - among other things, it's talking more about sheep's play in general.

[northsidegal]

I'm just sort of in "whatever" mode.
This game is moving too slowly, and there's less than 4 days until deadline.

I havent liked the content coming from NSG at all.

why not comment on anything that's happened in the last four or so pages instead of commenting about how slow the game is?

[northsidegal]

to clarify, why not say something substantiative instead of the empty comment that you just don't like my content?

[northsidegal]

to clarify, why not say something substantiative instead of the empty comment that you just don't like my content?

Because I dont work that way.

are you saying you never do any active scumhunting or give reasons for your reads? i know that that isn't true from what i've read this game but i also don't know how else to interpret what you're saying here.

[northsidegal]

No i'm not saying that. Refer to post 838.

well what i'm saying is that i'm not okay with anyone pushing through my lynch without any real justification other than "i just don't like it". that's what i said to alisae and the same thing applies to you.

[northsidegal]

Well i dont really care what you're okay with or not.
All I care is that you're scum and you need to be lynched.

so what happens when you're wrong? do you pick the next name out of a hat and decide that person is scum and needs to be lynched? i'm trying to engage with you here like you complained that i wasn't doing and all i'm doing is talking to a brick wall.

[northsidegal]

so what happens when you're wrong? do you pick the next name out of a hat and decide that person is scum and needs to be lynched?

Nah, if im wrong i re-evaluate.

any response to the part of that post that you removed from your quote?

[northsidegal]

Why would I respond to that?
You already had several game days before to engage with me, and you decide to do it now that im in tunnel mode? well though luck then.

how exactly does the time relate to your willingness to engage with me? also, i wasn't aware that you weren't in tunnel mode before but now apparently you are.

[northsidegal]

how exactly does the time relate to your willingness to engage with me?

Wtf is this even supposed to mean.
The answer's already on my post.
You said you needed to interact with me to get a read on me and made no effort to do so.
And now that im tunneling you, you complain that im being a brick wall.

yeah, i wanted to interact with you to get a read on you. i'm making an effort to do so

right now

. it's not painting the best picture really.

[northsidegal]

so is there any reason we're back on my wagon or are people just getting bored again?

if i'm lynched then tomorrow hopefully anyone who actually cares about this game should be able to recognize the lazy votes on me and go from there.

[northsidegal]

who are the lazy votes on you, north?

all of them, including my own.

[northsidegal]

who are the lazy votes on you, north?

all of them, including my own.

OH
MY
GAWD
THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!!1
!!!!!1!!!!!!!!1
!!!!!!!!!
11!
!!!!!!
1

WE SHOULD BE FRIENDS <3

friends don't let friends (or townreads) get lynched.

[northsidegal]

ASP is a lazy wagon
North is a lazy wagon
The only other 3 options are myself, bee and you.
I doubt you want to lynch yourself.
So the other options are myself or bee.
Last i heard you townread me and had a bunch of nulls.
So are you saying that bee is scum? otherwise i dont see this day going the way you want it.

is asp really that lazy of a wagon? i mean, i want you to notice something - has asp ever once seemed concerned about being lynched? looking through his iso i don't see a single instance of concern that he might die. why is that? i wonder if it could be an asp/maru scumteam, with asp confident that maru wouldn't hammer him. just throwing ideas out there, might be useful to look back on tomorrow. as an example, look at this:

An ASP lynch is going to take everyone but ASP, including Maru, due to frozen votes (unless ASP decides to self-vote).

I'm VOTELESS today, genius. Check my ISO. I demonstrated as such earlier on.

the response to being at l-1 is to simply remind someone of his role - there's no concern at all, no self-defense. penguin even noticed this:

Um...ok. It's still going to take everyone but you...L-1 guy.

earlier in the game you said that you didn't understand why i was being survivalistic:

As for seeing people being survivalistic as town... Well i dont see any reason for her to be survivalistic, her role seems more NU than you'd think, specially if she inherits something like ASP's or bee's role, or heck even mine or Sobolev's. She waited until I was tunneling her, to start complaining about me being a brick wall, instead of engaging me when i wasnt tunneling, doesnt feel like she ever wanted to sort me, and as a result, im gonna predict that she's gonna scumread me, she's been preparing for it for a while.

of course i'm being survivalistic - not only was pretty much the only wagon in the game on me, but also i know for a fact that i'm town. town should never accept their own lynch - it's like accepting a lynch on someone you have a cop innocent on. just because my role might not be the best doesn't mean i'm going to accept my own lynch. truthfully, i'd even accept someone i townread's lynch over my own. maybe it's selfish, but there's always the chance that i'm wrong about that person, whereas i know for a fact that i'm town.

[northsidegal]

wait, wait. tell me again the reasons why we're no lynching?

[northsidegal]

Because the almighty god of MLG mafia said so.

is this passive-aggressive pettiness really necessary?

[northsidegal]

VOTE: Alisae
FUCK YOU WHOEVER STOLE MY FUCKING VOTE

doesn't this instantly make you think to asp? being voteless day one would make sense if he has to "steal" someone else's vote each day, given that there was no night 0. obviously this isn't some undefeatable scumcase, but that's what instantly came to mind.
VOTE: asp

still okay with this.

[northsidegal]

Beeboy does your role work in MyLo?
If so I would be totally okay with no lynching at some point.
However I owe the game a reread and would like to get that done first.

pedit: I think using steal is the wrong word.
I meant ot say that I don't have a vote today
someone either stole it or took it away

ah, something like a roleblocker or "vote blocker". that makes sense.

i'd be okay no lynching but i'd rather we only do it when it's necessary as opposed to right now. delaying the flip just delays the information - i don't see the point to doing it now instead of later.

[northsidegal]

If we don't no lynch and beeboy's role works in MyLo we basicly have to pl him because that role is a problem in MyLo.
I rather no lynch to avoid pls

i'm not sure it's a big enough problem to warrant no lynching, really. as long as we're careful with votes in mylo then scum shouldn't be able to quickhammer.

[northsidegal]

Yeah no lynching is super preferable for reasons here please do that when I am ready.

why? i thought we just figured out that there won't be any concerns over mylo?

[northsidegal]

alisae if you say you're okay with ss or with maru then how about maru today? i still think that the asp/maru team is something worth considering and i'm not really understanding some of the stuff you call scummy.

[northsidegal]

wait we can also pretty easily check that north now has penguin's role right?

sure! wait for the next votecount.

[northsidegal]

i mean why should i budge? the argument in favor is that alisae really didn't understand that we had limited lynch options yesterday.

but my entire case today has been "our lynch power was hugely constrained yesterday which explains how i was acting" and i fail to see how alisae reads several pages of me saying this without asking "hmm what constraints on our lynch power is she talking about?" unless e just wanted me to be scum.

i can even understand alisae missing this in my iso from yesterday but it takes willful disengagement to not understand it through several pages of interaction with me when this is what my entire defense rested on.

and you think that this comes from alisae being scum? do you think that alisae, as scum, thought it was possible to push through a lynch on you on a misrepped point? it doesn't seem likely to me.

[northsidegal]

i likely won't be replacing out for any reason.

[northsidegal]

Spoiler: not game related

i mean, i personally don't replace out of games, but what can you do about others replacing out?

also, i think it would probably be better if someone who doesn't want to play the game is replaced by someone who actively chooses to replace in.

[northsidegal]

that's why i still want a maru lynch today, really.

[northsidegal]

VC 2.2

Maruchan:

northsidegal

Spoiler:

VOTE: Alisae
FUCK YOU WHOEVER STOLE MY FUCKING VOTE

doesn't this instantly make you think to asp? being voteless day one would make sense if he has to "steal" someone else's vote each day, given that there was no night 0. obviously this isn't some undefeatable scumcase, but that's what instantly came to mind.
VOTE: asp

still okay with this.

Beeboy does your role work in MyLo?
If so I would be totally okay with no lynching at some point.
However I owe the game a reread and would like to get that done first.

pedit: I think using steal is the wrong word.
I meant ot say that I don't have a vote today
someone either stole it or took it away

ah, something like a roleblocker or "vote blocker". that makes sense.

i'd be okay no lynching but i'd rather we only do it when it's necessary as opposed to right now. delaying the flip just delays the information - i don't see the point to doing it now instead of later.

If we don't no lynch and beeboy's role works in MyLo we basicly have to pl him because that role is a problem in MyLo.
I rather no lynch to avoid pls

i'm not sure it's a big enough problem to warrant no lynching, really. as long as we're careful with votes in mylo then scum shouldn't be able to quickhammer.

Yeah no lynching is super preferable for reasons here please do that when I am ready.

why? i thought we just figured out that there won't be any concerns over mylo?

alisae if you say you're okay with ss or with maru then how about maru today? i still think that the asp/maru team is something worth considering and i'm not really understanding some of the stuff you call scummy.

wait we can also pretty easily check that north now has penguin's role right?

sure! wait for the next votecount.

i mean why should i budge? the argument in favor is that alisae really didn't understand that we had limited lynch options yesterday.

but my entire case today has been "our lynch power was hugely constrained yesterday which explains how i was acting" and i fail to see how alisae reads several pages of me saying this without asking "hmm what constraints on our lynch power is she talking about?" unless e just wanted me to be scum.

i can even understand alisae missing this in my iso from yesterday but it takes willful disengagement to not understand it through several pages of interaction with me when this is what my entire defense rested on.

and you think that this comes from alisae being scum? do you think that alisae, as scum, thought it was possible to push through a lynch on you on a misrepped point? it doesn't seem likely to me.

i likely won't be replacing out for any reason.

i mean, i personally don't replace out of games, but what can you do about others replacing out?

also, i think it would probably be better if someone who doesn't want to play the game is replaced by someone who actively chooses to replace in.

that's why i still want a maru lynch today, really.

[northsidegal]

North honestly you should be voting ASP

yeah, i just did this as a demonstration.

[northsidegal]

ok so we can try to enact my plan now to prevent the auto hammer so then we can vote normally, but for now i require north and NM to stop voting unless they dont care if their votes are frozen where they are.

do you think that it's a big enough deal to warrant freezing gorking's vote?
i'll UNVOTE: anyways.

[northsidegal]

Although tbf, I'm gonna have to reread all of d2 so far. Just feel like one of the main reasons we didn't have any lynch D1 was Alisae, coupled with the suvrivalism > town of NSG.

I honestly had to ISO the mod to make sure the new guy wasn't replacing me, because I've been way too checked out the past few days.

aren't you happy we didn't lynch you? like, let's say you're town and alisae is scum. why would alisae intentionally stop the lynch or at least try to prevent it, as you're claiming? i don't think this makes sense.

[northsidegal]

Okay. Looking back, I seem to have confused some stuff- Alisae's vote was locked ON Sakura, it was not Sakura's vote that was locked. This changes a lot WRT Alisae. Just found it odd that e insisted we avoid a NL, and yet didn't make any votes to push for a lynch as we got closer to deadline.

i'm not sure i believe this. you said that one of the main reasons we didn't have a lynch day one was alisae - it doesn't seem to me like whether or not alisae had a vote would make a difference when it comes to this. presumably what alisae said would be far more important than just the action of placing a vote, hence why a playstyle like not mafia's is less influential than someone more verbose's. like, the fact that alisae couldn't vote shouldn't change your assertion that e was one of the main reasons we didn't have a lynch - just the simple act of voting shouldn't be so influential. if we follow your logic then you

should

be saying that not mafia was the main reason we didn't have a lynch yesterday, for not showing up to hammer.

even more, you didn't answer my question. even if we take it that alisae was not the

main reason

that a no lynch happened yesterday, presumably you're still making the point that e had the goal of a no lynch in mind. the thing is, that still doesn't make sense. again, why would alisae as scum attempt to stop the lynch or try to prevent it, if we take it that you're town and alisae is scum?

[northsidegal]

Okay. Looking back, I seem to have confused some stuff- Alisae's vote was locked ON Sakura, it was not Sakura's vote that was locked. This changes a lot WRT Alisae. Just found it odd that e insisted we avoid a NL, and yet didn't make any votes to push for a lynch as we got closer to deadline.

i'm not sure i believe this. you said that one of the main reasons we didn't have a lynch day one was alisae - it doesn't seem to me like whether or not alisae had a vote would make a difference when it comes to this. presumably what alisae said would be far more important than just the action of placing a vote, hence why a playstyle like not mafia's is less influential than someone more verbose's. like, the fact that alisae couldn't vote shouldn't change your assertion that e was one of the main reasons we didn't have a lynch - just the simple act of voting shouldn't be so influential. if we follow your logic then you

should

be saying that not mafia was the main reason we didn't have a lynch yesterday, for not showing up to hammer.

even more, you didn't answer my question. even if we take it that alisae was not the

main reason

that a no lynch happened yesterday, presumably you're still making the point that e had the goal of a no lynch in mind. the thing is, that still doesn't make sense. again, why would alisae as scum attempt to stop the lynch or try to prevent it, if we take it that you're town and alisae is scum?

Alisae didn't have a vote. I thought e did. E was around after I reached L1 and didn't hammer. I was making the argument that e was giving scum a free NK without any info to town (because who has associative data with Penguin?) when my lynch would've said something about NM, about Maru, and to a lesser extent about SS, Alisae, and NSG. But because I didn't realize e had no vote, any case pushed is invalid. I can't make this argument about NM because NM wasn't around between L-1 and deadline to my knowledge.

i'm still not sure i believe you here. if the point you were making when you said that this:

Although tbf, I'm gonna have to reread all of d2 so far.

Just feel like one of the main reasons we didn't have any lynch D1 was Alisae, coupled with the suvrivalism > town of NSG.

I honestly had to ISO the mod to make sure the new guy wasn't replacing me, because I've been way too checked out the past few days.

was that it was alisae's not voting that caused the no lynch, i feel like you would have just said that explicitly. like, if you saw that alisae was clearly online, in-thread and posting when it was l-1 and the timer was running down and saw that e didn't hammer, why didn't you question eir on that? like, where was the "hey alisae, why didn't you hammer yesterday? also i'm going to scumread you for not doing that". as it is it seems to me like you're changing your story as issues pop up.

okay, so when you say "any case pushed is invalid", i presume that you're abandoning your point that alisae was deliberately attempting to get a no-lynch. is that correct?

[northsidegal]

hype!

[northsidegal]

NSG is never scum. SS I think is town. gorkington I think is town. Alisae I think is town.

so that leaves NM and ASP but I don't think that they're scumbuddies so I'm most likely wrong about someone

how much of the game have you read?

[northsidegal]

But i'm just gonna come clean already and take the hate mail up front.

?

[northsidegal]

I made it trigger day 1 to further push this

why?

I thought if coming into D2, scum would shoot me thinking my role was NU

?

it would clear NSG

?

[northsidegal]

1) Basically as soon as bee voted me, and me freaking out over it after i had warned ppl to not vote me, if the votes froze it would make it look reactive and make the gambit look more real.
2 and 3) If scum wanted to give an NU role to a town backup, considering as bee said i was being very townread, i'd be the prime target, you would obviously receive the legit version of the actual role and figure out what I was trying to do, this is also why I kept telling bee to not worry about it because I knew any negative effect of his role I could counter with mine.

1) right, but what did you accomplish by convincing everyone that it was real? what did you hope to accomplish? i'm really not sure why you felt the need to convince everyone that it was real.
2/3) how does this factor into anything? obviously you couldn't have had this plan at the start of the day, so why bring it up?

[northsidegal]

1) Basically as soon as bee voted me, and me freaking out over it after i had warned ppl to not vote me, if the votes froze it would make it look reactive and make the gambit look more real.
2 and 3) If scum wanted to give an NU role to a town backup, considering as bee said i was being very townread, i'd be the prime target, you would obviously receive the legit version of the actual role and figure out what I was trying to do, this is also why I kept telling bee to not worry about it because I knew any negative effect of his role I could counter with mine.

1) right, but what did you accomplish by convincing everyone that it was real? what did you hope to accomplish? i'm really not sure why you felt the need to convince everyone that it was real.
2/3) how does this factor into anything? obviously you couldn't have had this plan at the start of the day, so why bring it up?

I already explained that in my initial post where i came clean.

The initial plan was more of wanting to see if scum would pile votes on me in hopes of freezing the votes, later on I realized how stupid that was because scum wouldnt be that obvious, and that my gambit ended up hurting town more for no actual gain

sakura why did you decide that now was the best time to come clean

Because i was feeling bad about it.

i don't think your reasoning is very good but i also don't think there's much to be gained from asking you the same questions over and over again.

nsg talk to me please I need you to townread me

i'm still on for an asp lynch today, if that's what you're asking.

[northsidegal]

then I'm pretty sure it's just double lurkerscum

i'm still on for an asp lynch today, if that's what you're asking.

do you think that my slot is scum?

probably, although that read is based entirely off maruchan and the earlier game.

Think about it, Ali's vote was stolen, no one has come forward to claim that action, which means it was a scum motivated action, why would scum do that to some of their own, when having less voting power than town would hurt them pretty bad? I think that fact alone points towards Ali being town.

i mean if ali was scum why would you expect e's telling the truth about the vote stealing?

it can be verified easily, if the vote doesn't show up in the vote count.

[northsidegal]

Were you guys blind or not paying attention.
Alisae voted SS (or was it ASP?) a while ago this DP and eir vote already didnt appear in the vote count, it's a proven fact, as i doubt Ali would have a similar role to PP, which is already proven to have gone to NSG.

this is correct:

VOTE: Space
Sakura Beeboy sheep me even tho I don't have a vote, we're killing scum today or no lynching take your pick

VC 2.1

No Lynch:

beeboy

A Simple Plan:

northsidegal

Not Voting:

Everyone Else

With

???

votes available,

5

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2017-12-01 18:17:44)

[northsidegal]

i would replace into a slot that i thought was scum and was in a bad spot, and i know other players that do the same thing. it's a challenging position to be in and it's good practice for getting yourself townread.

[northsidegal]

Keely where are you up to currently.

20

only post twenty? i'd have thought you'd be past the first page by now!

[northsidegal]

interesting, looks like someone truly has "stolen" your vote, assuming that's not an error. i wonder why me, though? what kind of wifom is that, and who does it come from?

[northsidegal]

oh, just an error then. i'm almost a little disappointed - that would've been really interesting.

[northsidegal]

Nsg wagon died on the 13th NM is claiming he didn't read thread over those two days. NM often lurks and doesn't respond to shit but for him to actually miss forcing a no Lynch feels wrong to me. Makes most sense if he's ASPs scumbuddy and also explains if ASP is bussing him today why NM is not trying. Like he should have some sort of stance on ASP as town and usually NM doesn't say much but you can read into what he's thinking but I'm getting nothing from him. So if I'm leading we're lynching NM today

why not mafia over asp?

[northsidegal]

Like the only world where lynching ASP is better is where you're scum bussing him and towns real investigative has stayed quiet.

how about the world where you and him are scum together?

[northsidegal]

If we assume ASP is the scum vote thief why wouldnt they steal Sobolev's vote who was openly for their lynch D1

alisae had expressed an apathy for the game due to the frozen votes - it could've been an attempt to keep alisae uninterested in the game.

[northsidegal]

does "parisian" rhyme with "vision" and "derision"?

[northsidegal]

i'm with alisae here, i'd rather lynch asp than not mafia.

[northsidegal]

VC 2.4

[

Not_Mafia (2):

A Simple Plan, Gorkington

A Simple Plan (1):

Sakura Hana

Not Voting:

Everyone Else

With

???

votes available,

5

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2017-12-01 18:17:44)

i guess i have tomorrow to lynch the shit out of n_m after you die
c:

hopefully scum is s_s/rc so we can both get to feel stupid.

VOTE: Not Mafia

is this correct?

[northsidegal]

interesting, looks like someone truly has "stolen" your vote, assuming that's not an error. i wonder why

me

asp

, though? what kind of wifom is that, and who does it come from?

seems relevant.

[northsidegal]

Someone obviously wants ASP very dead and NM not dead.

that's the obvious conclusion - is it correct?

[northsidegal]

actually, wait. i'm not even going to wait to gain the effect of a rhetorical question. it's so obvious that i don't think there's any chance it's correct. it's such an "in your face" move, obviously meant to grab attention rather than to be subtle that whoever did it is trying to lead us to false conclusions rather than attempting to use the vote to get someone lynched.

[northsidegal]

Doubt its RC because he seems to want NM a lot more then he wants ASP
so its NM?

That's what I'm thinking unless multiple people are lieing about their roles.

you're taking the obvious conclusion here - i wouldn't be so quick to assume things.

[northsidegal]

I mean at least your vote is only gone for the day, mine is gone forever, unless whoever stole it dies.

is that what the mod told you?

[northsidegal]

north, are you saying it could've been a town vote theft?

no, what i'm saying is that the purpose of the vote is to lead us to some false conclusion or contribute to some false narrative rather than the obvious conclusion of "the vote thief doesn't like the not mafia wagon and wants asp lynched".

[northsidegal]

VOTE: a simple plan

[northsidegal]

is it time for a mass claim? the people who haven't fully claimed are also among the people unlikely to be nightkilled - i don't see the downside.

[northsidegal]

is it just rc/nm/asp who haven't claimed?

i believe you also haven't claimed your full role outside of the demonstrated not being able to hammer.

[northsidegal]

things aren't making sense to me right now. i'm gonna take some time to review.

[northsidegal]

Game Specifics and Sample Role PM:

• Mafia members have access to daychat.

relevant.

[northsidegal]

Yeah I wasn't supposed to tell N_M that because now he obviously doesn't claim that his ability doesn't work in mylo/lylo but you seemed stressed

Either way we can still lynch N_M if we want to today, I'm just getting cold feet about it in any scumteam other than N_M/Alisae

none of our abilities work in lylo.

[northsidegal]

hmm....

[northsidegal]

VOTE: radiant cowbells

[northsidegal]

check your role pm again rc - i think you're either lying or what you said was a scumclaim.

[northsidegal]

If you thought I was scumclaiming why are you giving me an out?

what makes you think i'm giving you an out? i'm seeing how you respond.

[northsidegal]

this is the lynch today then. there's literally no reason for her to push that as scum indicative unless she plausibly thought that scum would have things that don't work in LyLo or that I was making it up.

i did think it was a possibility that scum roles still worked in lylo. you claimed your role still worked in lylo when i know that myself (town) and multiple other people who i believe to be town have all mentioned that their roles don't work in lylo.

why do i push that point as scum? like, why do i put myself out there and make that vote if i'm scum?

[northsidegal]

oh, i can't read.

If it's an aspect of the game that's universal that I clearly just didn't get then scumreading me for it makes no sense and feels like scum!NSG looking for a reason to turn on me

did you

clearly

just not get it, though? i thought you were just making a mistake at first when you implied in your posts that you could still use your role in lylo, hence my initial saying that our roles don't work there. after you said that yours still worked in lylo and after i voted you i even asked you to take another look at your role pm, just in case you were making a mistake. i'm not sure why you think it was something you just didn't get as opposed to a mistake - i'm also not sure why you think i'm looking for a reason to turn on you.

[northsidegal]

It's not about the act itself: I think that you would have been more enthusiastic about finding the scumslip if you were town. Rather than give me the opportunity to say I read my role PM wrong, if you were looking for a reaction you would have looked for clarification another way without being obvious about what you were looking for or hard jumped on me like you believed it. If you actually believed you caught me scumslipping then that's not at all what it would have looked like no matter how you would have approached it. That feels like scum who thinks they have something they can use against me but are hesitant about using.

i don't put a huge amount of weight into "slips" like that - i'm pretty sure more often than not things people think are scumslips aren't actually. i mean, i guess i'll admit that if you were actually scum here who made a mistake and revealed something you should have then i went about my questioning pretty poorly, but i don't think the skill of my play is alignment-relevant.

But you did turn on me: you voted me. If you thought that I had just made a mistake then why do you vote me?

the question was why am i

looking for

a reason to turn on you? why does scum me want to vote specifically you so much that i'm searching for opportunities?

[northsidegal]

And here's the best part: GIF forgot to tell me that my role didn't work in LyLo. I don't remember any mention of that in your ISO so you claim to have seen everyone else say they can't act in LyLo but didn't notice that your role PM didn't say that?
That doesn't really make sense unless you got your information from another source, aka your scumpartner explained that to you after you replaced in.

my role pm does say that my abilities don't work in lylo.

[northsidegal]

If you thought that I had just made a mistake then why do you vote me?

if you don't put a lot of weight into slips like that then why did you hmm and vote me?

the answer to these two questions is the same - i wasn't sure. it was certainly possible that you had just missed that part of your role pm, hence my hesitation to jump on it immediately as a slip. at the same time, after you had explicitly said that your role pm didn't contain any mention of that i couldn't really reconcile the idea of you missing it with the idea that everyone who looks town so far had confirmed as such.

[northsidegal]

Why is your role PM different from everyone elses role PM unless you don't need to confirm since you're posting in scum PT so it goes in there instead?

i assume it's because i replaced in - i realize that you did the same thing, but i can't really say anything conclusive. like, my role pm also contained instructions to confirm, one of which was to reply by confirming that i recognize that my role doesn't work in lylo.

[northsidegal]

And given how small the PoE pool has become with Alisae setup specced town, Gork/Sakura obvtown, SS being really towny, NM setup specced town, if I'm right and it's you and ASP, of course you're trying to open up the lynchpool.
Like I feel bad for you because the sakura/beeboy fight really made this unwinnable for scum but your push on me was scummy as shit.

[northsidegal]

knowing GIF it's entirely possible he forgot to tell RC

i don't doubt this and i think it might point to a misconception - i'm not still pushing rc as scum based on the "slip". i fully believe that it was probably just a misunderstanding. at the time i thought it could've indicated something, but there's nothing to suggest that idea as of now.

[northsidegal]

I dont see how you even get to this:

check your role pm again rc - i think you're either lying or what you said was a scumclaim.

what? i don't understand what your problem is with that - that's a perfectly valid question to ask. rc claimed a trait of his role that i know doesn't apply to me (town), and that other people who i believe are town have also said wouldn't apply to them.

Tabling the angleshooting NSG's hesitancy about the scumslip is extremely uncharacteristic of her towngame. She's usually very aggressive and if she were town who thought I slipped she would have pushed me hard and let me prove myself town by my reaction rather than timidly giving me a way out of the slip. She's been very tunnely in her games on site in general and I don't think I've ever seen anything like that bit around the 'hmm' from her before.

It feels a lot more like scum trying to make a show of 'hey look how much I'm thinking about this' rather than legitimately thinking about it.

everyone who i've tunnelled on in my short mafia career i've had more to go off of than a "slip" that could easily be explained as a player or moderator mistake. i'm not sure how aggressive you expect me to be - i really only had the chance to make those few posts before the issue was resolved. like, you're accusing me of trying to "give you a way out" of your slip, when the reality of that action was me avoiding looking like an idiot when i start calling for someone's lynch because they might not have read their role pm. i like to think that i don't normally deathtunnel people for things as minor and as easily explainable as that.

also, i say "hmm" all the time.

[northsidegal]

UNVOTE:

[northsidegal]

Also the post i quoted you literally accused him of lying or scumclaiming.
1 The former means he's town lying knowing his role doesnt work on LyLo, which if anything could've been considered a gambit and why would town question that?
2 The later means you think he's scum simply by virtue of his role working on LyLo.

Neither of these point to a misconception but a blatant accusation.

1 not necessarily - he could just as easily be scum lying to try to get people to follow some kind plan in lylo even though his role still gets disabled. the scum motivation of getting someone to believe that you're a governor in lylo seems obvious to me - even if rc's role was disabled like the rest of us, he could by lying with a scum agenda. why would i question that? i guess i don't see a reason not to. i'm not in a position to trust rc enough to let him get away with some crazy gambit when i can't see any obvious benefit to doing so.

2 yes - i don't think this is entirely far fetched. i know there was a lot of complaining about the setup but i'm not really in any position to try to outguess the mod on whether or not it's balanced. it was a possibility that scum roles still worked in lylo and, moreover, what rc was saying was a contradiction with what i know to be true for town.

at first, i thought it could be a misconception. once rc had explicitly stated that his role still worked in lylo there was no way to reconcile it being a misconception with the things i've already mentioned - the obvious conclusions (the only conclusion, really) was that he was either lying or scum. i really don't think this is as unreasonable as you're painting it as.

[northsidegal]

Ok so tell me how game balance works in a game where you think that a town role PM doesnt work in LyLo, but a scum one does.
P-Edit: @North

okay, here's how it goes - after rc had made his claim and asserted that his role still works in lylo, i couldn't reconcile that with him either lying or his role being inconsistent with the roles of multiple townies, including myself. that assessment is completely independent of me deciding what is and isn't possible based on my own subjective interpretation of game balance. like, sure - it seems unlikely that scum roles still work in lylo, but that still doesn't allow me to reconcile things fully. it would

still

lead to the conclusion that rc is lying.

[northsidegal]

i couldn't reconcile that with him either lying or his role being inconsistent with the roles of multiple townies, including myself.

i guess this is to say "i couldn't reconcile that

without believing

that he's lying or beliving that his role is inconsistent with the roles of multiple townies".

[northsidegal]

VOTE: a simple plan

[northsidegal]

i didn't scumread the initial "hmm" and then the vote but the thing that worries me is that in north's later explanations she gives like two reasons for her vote: 1. she thought scum roles could possibly work in lylo and 2. she thought rc could have been scum trying to get us to think his role worked in lylo. but these things can't both be true at the same time so it kinda feels like one was made up after the fact

both of those can't be true at the same time but i didn't know which was true and both still point to rc being scum, hence the vote.

[northsidegal]

oh, i'm being voted. well, here we are again close to deadline with a case on me built from, what, exactly? are you all really taking that one interaction as scummy enough to ignore everything we had discussed prior in the day? are you all really taking rc at his word not only that he's telling the truth about my meta in relation to this game, but that any perceived playstyle difference even has any meaning? i don't think this game has really been that off-meta for me - look at my posts day one and i think you'll find it's consistent with the rest of my games.

lynch me and you have a completely useless flip of a role you all already know (and of an alignment you should all already know), ignoring a simple plan for the second day in a row.

[northsidegal]

i don't think you all are really considering the simple possibility that rc isn't telling the truth. if we consider that possibility then the case on me pretty much completely falls apart - it's almost entirely based on beliving things that rc is saying about my meta and how i would or wouldn't react in a situation if i were town.

[northsidegal]

i also think it's ridiculous and perhaps a testament to how good rc is at manipulation that we had an interaction in which rc claimed something about his role that

no other townie claimed

and i came out of it being scumread for finding that suspicious.

[northsidegal]

do you think scum has a vote thief and an executioner?

i'm not in a position to outguess the mod, nor would i have any desire to do so. they both sound like scummy enough roles, at least - thief and executioner.

i'm a universal backup.

[northsidegal]

further note - i don't think you should base your reads off of how realistic it seems for scum to have certain roles.

also of note is that rc hasn't demonstrated any part of his role - again, you're taking it as a given that he's not lying. i'm not expecting people to just distrust everything anyone says by default, but it doesn't seem like people are looking at what rc says with the same element of suspicion or strutiny as they do for others.

[northsidegal]

whats your best bet for a scumteam right now nsg?

also, is it not kind of twisting the situation to imply that its scummy for rc to have claimed that his role didnt have a lylo clause when it seems kind of clear that nobody's rolePM has a lylo clause in it?

probably asp and rc.

i don't think you're giving me any credit here - what rc said and assured me was correct was an inconsistency that, to me, couldn't be explained any other way than either him lying or him being scum. the pm that had my role in it

did

have a sentence about having to confirm that i understood that roles didn't work in lylo.

[northsidegal]

if hes lying then theres no lynch today and he looks terrible tomorrow for derailing the only lynch we could feasibly get at this point? thats a really baffling angle to take.

from my understanding we don't actually need an executioner to get any lynch through today, given that not mafia controls two votes.

im less trying to say that its scummy that you thought that and that it seems kind of off that

youre still trying to imply that its scummy for rc to have had that thought process still?

i don't think i've ever implied that - not intentionally, at least.

[northsidegal]

oh wait, i'm wrong on that - forgot alisae was voteless. that is something i hadn't considered.

[northsidegal]

we cant lynch you, rc or s_s without your cooperation in your own lynch without some kind of help today. look at how many votes are able to be in play and then look at how many are going to realistically be able to vote someone.

yeah, you're right.

[northsidegal]

If NSG does in fact flip some flavour of universal backup then we've got autowin fairly easily if we can confirm only one of Sobolev and ASP's roles as not being the vote thief

you know i've already proven that i'm a universal backup, right?

[northsidegal]

You say this but you haven't actually argued with either my meta on you or my role.

first, i have. you made the point that i'm a tunnelly player and so my push on you was weak because i'm scum this game, but i'm pretty sure i've already said that games where i've tunnelled on people have been the ones where i've felt entirely confident about my reads on those people. the scenarios in previous games aren't comparable at all to what happened this game.

it just seems a bit pointless to me to spend a lot of time trying to argue against your meta case - if you're claiming that i wouldn't act the way i have this game as town then i already know that you're factually incorrect. other people seem to be willing to believe you without taking into consideration anything that i'm saying anyways - i'm pretty happy with what i've already said about your meta case on me.

[northsidegal]

VOTE: NSG

is this your second vote ie me lynched, here?

[northsidegal]

i'm still town, you're still scum.

[northsidegal]

mostly i'm disappointed in ss - there were only three people voting me to a lynch: rc, nm and ss. rc is scum and not mafia was just sheeping rc, but i don't understand why ss voted me. like, why was i lynched? why did we vote me? because i questioned rc about an inconsistency in his role? really?

[northsidegal]

like a scum plan with rc or like a plan where i get lynched for no reason?

[northsidegal]

my "push" on you was five posts where i voted a slot that i already thought was scum for something that seemed inexplicable. it was honestly a no-brainer to me that i should vote you. you made the point that it looked like i was jumping at an opportunity to get you lynched - i have no idea how others don't see that in you here.

Yeah I wasn't supposed to tell N_M that because now he obviously doesn't claim that his ability doesn't work in mylo/lylo but you seemed stressed

Either way we can still lynch N_M if we want to today, I'm just getting cold feet about it in any scumteam other than N_M/Alisae

none of our abilities work in lylo.

hmm....

VOTE: radiant cowbells

check your role pm again rc - i think you're either lying or what you said was a scumclaim.

[northsidegal]

do you know what jumping at an opportunity looks like? it looks like this:

Spoiler:

Okay

VOTE: NSG

this is the lynch today then. there's literally no reason for her to push that as scum indicative unless she plausibly thought that scum would have things that don't work in LyLo or that I was making it up.

If it's an aspect of the game that's universal that I clearly just didn't get then scumreading me for it makes no sense and feels like scum!NSG looking for a reason to turn on me

hmm....

VOTE: radiant cowbells

and this hmm is so fucking scummy I actually laughed when I first read it

this is the lynch today then. there's literally no reason for her to push that as scum indicative unless she plausibly thought that scum would have things that don't work in LyLo or that I was making it up.

i did think it was a possibility that scum roles still worked in lylo. you claimed your role still worked in lylo when i know that myself (town) and multiple other people who i believe to be town have all mentioned that their roles don't work in lylo.

why do i push that point as scum? like, why do i put myself out there and make that vote if i'm scum?

I don't think it was a well considered plan certainly.

It's not about the act itself: I think that you would have been more enthusiastic about finding the scumslip if you were town. Rather than give me the opportunity to say I read my role PM wrong, if you were looking for a reaction you would have looked for clarification another way without being obvious about what you were looking for or hard jumped on me like you believed it. If you actually believed you caught me scumslipping then that's not at all what it would have looked like no matter how you would have approached it. That feels like scum who thinks they have something they can use against me but are hesitant about using.

you clearly just not get it, though? i thought you were just making a mistake at first when you implied in your posts that you could still use your role in lylo, hence my initial saying that our roles don't work there. after you said that yours still worked in lylo and after i voted you i even asked you to take another look at your role pm, just in case you were making a mistake. i'm not sure why you think it was something you just didn't get as opposed to a mistake - i'm also not sure why you think i'm looking for a reason to turn on you.

But you did turn on me: you voted me. If you thought that I had just made a mistake then why do you vote me?

And here's the best part: GIF forgot to tell me that my role didn't work in LyLo. I don't remember any mention of that in your ISO so you claim to have seen everyone else say they can't act in LyLo but didn't notice that your role PM didn't say that?
That doesn't really make sense unless you got your information from another source, aka your scumpartner explained that to you after you replaced in.

if you don't put a lot of weight into slips like that then why did you hmm and vote me?

And given how small the PoE pool has become with Alisae setup specced town, Gork/Sakura obvtown, SS being really towny, NM setup specced town, if I'm right and it's you and ASP, of course you're trying to open up the lynchpool.
Like I feel bad for you because the sakura/beeboy fight really made this unwinnable for scum but your push on me was scummy as shit.

And here's the best part: GIF forgot to tell me that my role didn't work in LyLo. I don't remember any mention of that in your ISO so you claim to have seen everyone else say they can't act in LyLo but didn't notice that your role PM didn't say that?
That doesn't really make sense unless you got your information from another source, aka your scumpartner explained that to you after you replaced in.

my role pm does say that my abilities don't work in lylo.

Why is your role PM different from everyone elses role PM unless you don't need to confirm since you're posting in scum PT so it goes in there instead?

Or alternatively you're scum with ASP

Tabling the angleshooting NSG's hesitancy about the scumslip is extremely uncharacteristic of her towngame. She's usually very aggressive and if she were town who thought I slipped she would have pushed me hard and let me prove myself town by my reaction rather than timidly giving me a way out of the slip. She's been very tunnely in her games on site in general and I don't think I've ever seen anything like that bit around the 'hmm' from her before.

It feels a lot more like scum trying to make a show of 'hey look how much I'm thinking about this' rather than legitimately thinking about it.

@Everyone who has votes, do you or do you not support an NSG wagon?

i don't doubt this and i think it might point to a misconception - i'm not still pushing rc as scum based on the "slip". i fully believe that it was probably just a misunderstanding. at the time i thought it could've indicated something, but there's nothing to suggest that idea as of now.

You're still voting me.

I was reading every one of NSG's completed games while they were ongoing and correctly read her in every one of them. For example 1827 nancy thought she was scum but I was 100% sure she was flipping town. Not saying anything about ongoings.
NSG isn't playing this game like she would if she were town, she isn't talking like she does as town, she's pushing her reads way more timidly than she does as town, and she feels just generally like a hollow shell of who she usually is.

It's impossible to get a lynch today without my support and I'm not voting anywhere else.

it's still amazing to me that i actually got lynched on a case built around five posts, completely ignoring everything else that's gone on in the game previously and completely ignoring anything i had to say about it.

[northsidegal]

well played to the scumteam, good game everyone.

[northsidegal]

thanks! i'm happy with my play day one getting out of that bad position but looking back i don't feel like i considered enough day two. like, i wrote off you and ss being town vs town and just left myself the pool of rc, not mafia and asp. i guess some of that is the difficulty of reading not mafia and asp's lurker slot, but still.