Courtney's Cafe PT

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And the bloody replacements olympics begin.

@ofrhz: As D1L pointed out, it's a mechanical thing that I think 0-1 scum are in this hood. You simply don't give scum multiple "Doctor of unknown sanity" roles. You lowkey give them one and they can figure it our by waiting to see how the other members of the neighborhood flip, or not at all.

That said, you are legit scum to me because of your stances. Your push on me is totally unjustified and is likely influenced by <redacted for now>, Your confidence in Pelican's flip being green from the very start is obv!Wking. Your lack of flare/presence in the game is alarming. Like, where do I even start here?

P-edit: Will read in a few minutes.. hold on

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

What would have been the advantage of doing this? You had already outed the hood!

I outed who the hood members were. I didn't out the roles/function of it, and to explain why IO thought 0-1 scum were in this hood I'd have had to say something like what I just did in my previous post in this PT. Like; "you don't give scum multiple 1-shot Doctor of unknown sanity roles". How was I to answer your question otherwise?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why would I want to keep my suspicions limited to this thread?

Because -assuming you're town- you know some other players (who are also likely town from your own PoV) didn't want to out the roles yet. Because EVEN IF PUSH COME TO SHOVE and you are the N1 NK (I don't see how this could even be a realistic assumption) there are at least 2 other townies who will be able to convey each and every word said in here to the main thread tomorrow.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I don't even know their stance on the Perry/FL thing. I haven't had time to think harder about this slot. Gork I literally don't have any thoughts on besides thinking his 1v1 with Kuribo was really dumb

And you wonder why I'm calling you out?? Ram has been clear enough he wasn't touching the "50/50" between FL & Peliocan with a barge pole (i.e.. wasn't voting Pelican this century), and having "no thoughts" on Gork is "shrugging off responsibility". On top of that you picked me to state a SR on? Yeah, all the hood is scum then. Let's let's JJD and if he flips green I can go for Gork or D1: because I have no thoughts and no idea what their stances are.

Like, again.. let's hypothetically assume you're town here for a minute.. if I said I SR you and had no thoughts on the other two, would you be TRing me for it? WAIT! I'll even call myself an ofrhz alt. Now would you TR me for that???

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

It didn't make sense to me to think there was only 0-1 scum in the hood.

You're either bad ir really bad for this regardless of your alignment.

Let me try and make it a bit clearer: There is a Mafia team, most likely composed of 4 slots (could be 3 or 5, depending on the power distribution, but the standard is 4 in a 17 players setup). In fact, I'll try to cover all possibilities.

3-man scum team with a 1-shot Doctor is never the case. Period. There are Millers, Vigs, unkillable/untargetable slots, so if the scum are only 3 then one of Bingle or Vecna gas to be scum to compensate for it (hint: It's Bingle 101% of the time.). The other two are also string PRs (i.e. not 1-shot Doctors)

4-man team: 0-1 scums in this PT is reasonable. (That's may or may not have a scumster in this hood). This whole hood has negligible powers compared to the rest of the game (minus the trio we have no idea what they are, but still..). Scum may or may not be given a vote boost, but the sure do have one of theirs in the "must be lynched because they cannot be NK'd" hood. One in the Millers PT is reasonable (and more likely than one in the Doctors), and almost certainly one in the Ninja hood. That leaves us AND the "unknown powers trio" for one additional scum slot. 1 Unkillable + 1 (fake) Miller + 1 Ninja + 1 in either of the other 2 PTs

5-man scum team: Still has one in the unkillables, but not necessarily between the multiple voters (i.e. Marquis is likely). 1 Ninja + 1 Miller still, and TWO others (so one is in here for certain).

Now try to sell me more than one scum in this PT to counter.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The tl;dr is: 3 scums = this is a Masonry. 4 scums = maybe but unlikey. 5 scums = most like 1 but that also means scum are in all hoods and the town is at a disadvantage which justifies giving town 2 multiple voters and Bingle is stupid town for suggesting not using it.

Oh, right. Forgot about the Penguin somehow.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The thing is ofrhz knows I think a lot about mechanics and setup, and that I do not necessarily out all my thoughts on D1. I wasn't trying to be much of an element in shaping how the day went and that is NOT how my scum game goes. I suspect she wanted to be TR'd by me for pushing me "because she wouldn't do that as scum.. bla bla.." (I think you get my drift, but that was a specific tell on a certain someone @ofrhz)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why is my confidence in Perry's flip WK'ing? I have never been wrong about Perry's alignment in any game.

Because it did look like a scum slip and ANYONE should have harboured some level of suspicion the way things went. Unless you believed BOTH FL & pops were scum, and then it would be overly ridiculous they'd double tag team on Pelican of all players to get him lynched like that.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Subject: Detective Penguin & City of Fogport [Night 1]

@JJD - don’t fall into the ScumOfhrz trap. That’s what scum want people to think.

There's stuff I'm not at liberty of talking about rn, relating to someone else's actions/behaviour that I am attributing ofrhz' behaviour here to. Trust me, I have a valid reason to consider her for scum doing this particular thing.

Did you want to talk about this here? Or is this [redacted]

Redacted, but I get the feeling you should be bale to make an educated assumption of what I'm talking about.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Sup

You're up for a looooong ride. Do you think you can read the thread even remotely?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I'm probably just going to holster. If there's some fancy way as to how we're supposed to use our abilities, it's completely beyond me

What's your read on FL?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

What you think about high chance of scum in our hood just because town vig exists?

I don't see the relevance. Town Vig is a negative utility (more likely to shoot Town), and then 1-shot Doctors

of unknown sanity

really IS a negative utility for town to. If there's scum they simply can't do much against the Vig because they have no idea what kind of Doctor they are still.

Like, if I was scum and KNEW I was a sane Doctor I could protect a partner. If I was scum and knew I was a CPR doctor I would have used it as a Vig shot. the problem is if I was scum I still dunno which one I am, so I could be killing a partner or blocking them instead, or I could be protecting a townie instead of killing them.

THAT and the fact we don't know if scum are multi-tasking. If they're not then using the role is still bad for scum because they could have been the one to carry out the factional kill instead.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also, it should be obvious, but we shouldn't try to use our abilities, it's not worth it, especially with addiction mechanic in play

Agreed.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Speaking of which, I can understand why you think scum!me would push you to evade suspicion

But if you think I'd let a ML opportunity like Perry go, you're wrong about my scum range

Listen, I am willing to give you the benefit of doubt, but this is such a bad argument, simply because that lynch was going through 100% of the time the minute FL interfered and rephrased what pops was saying. I myself wasn't sure what pops was talking about even after I had asked her to clarify. It wasn't until FL rehashed it all that it made sense to me. I acknowledge I still had doubts because it's like RCE to skim his role PM, but it was too strong an argument to dismiss with any confidence.

So, theoretically, scum you wanted those town points dor going against the grain on what was essentially the day lynch and can now come back with the "I told you so. Look how townie I was defending the mislynched player" kind of thing.

But OK.. let's say you're town and didn't get the feeling that was a compelling case, and also didn't understand what made me think there were 0-1 scum in this hood, and let's start fresh.

First, I'd appreciate it if you listed the living players in order of how well you think you know them or can read them.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

He didn't pick up on Perry's "scumslip" until much much later than when pops started pushing it, and the progression there seems unnatural

OK.. let me ask you this: If you somehow knew you were a CPR Doctor, would you be willing to target FL tonight? If he is scum he certainly dies. If he is town though, there's a good chance he is the NK target and you would save him.

Note: I am proposing you KNOW you are a CPR Doctor. I don't care about "what if I am a Paranoid/naive/sane?" possibilities.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

If FL is trying to get away with some dumb shit he is scum

That's FL reads 101

It wasn't dumb. I think you need to read for yourself though. If we try to catch you up we will end up influencing your reads pretty hard, and I would really rather we don't. This game needs a fresh PoV from someone who wasn't in a lot of side-war activity during D1.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I have a crazy idea cooking up on my brain. I mean over the top crazy.

If this PT is to be treated like a masonry (needs all 4 of us to be willing to make that assumption and act upon it, because there's no going back) and we decide to take the risk (again, we need all 4 of us to agree to it) we can disregard the caffeine thing and target in Bingle/Vecna/Marquis. (Wait till you read the explanation)

This was we are guaranteed not to kill/block anyone (CPR/paranoid) AND we join their PT, thus become all NK immune.

Even at worst case only one of us does tonight = 3 will be in that PT, and that forces scum to play ONLY for the caffeine win con (because we can't be killed).

Then we all agree to lynch the same player tomorrow (I'm thinking Bingle but I'm open to suggestions) and become the town leaders.

Bingle I suspect is saving his move until it really matters (the voting powers), but I'm not making a case on him or anyone else unless we do agree to take that risk and literally gamble the game in that way. (I of course see he downside of it all, but I think the mere surprise to scum is worth it. They must be planning on something now and this move really comes out of the left field for them so I bet not only they'd be confused but some may even lose grip and out themselves in anger)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That ALSO releases this PT (no more members in it so it goes public) and we get access to their PT so we have more of a "smaller council" of the game. Bingle can't possibly pocket us all.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Actually, there's an amendment to this plan. We don't need to lynch Bingle just yet. We just make sure one of Marquis/Vecna doesn't act ever. That's our "king". Then we proceed to lynch from OUTSIDE that PT, thus narrowing down the pool of NKs for scum.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

2 problems: paranoia - while we might agree that we masons, we need rest of the town to agree too; strongman might be a thing, especially with reflexive rb in play

Who cares about the rest of town? We will become an unkillable town block, and we can sort certain players based on their response to this move alone. (I can't really talk in details about this one just in case we decide for the move and this PT becomes public. Suffice it to say some players will react in a certain manner as town and in a totally different manner as scum to this bold move).

As for strongman, they should be limited to 2 shots. THAT is the beauty of it. FOUR "unexpected" more unkillable targets is a MASSIVE blow to the scum team.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Once we join their hood, whoever is scum will know we’ve all become caffeinated

LOL. The whole town will!! Duh!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also we’d be removing any chance of using our abilities beneficially down the line

The thing is we cannot use our abilities beneficially anyway.

1- You are suggesting we stay caffeine-free = do not use your ability
2- (and more importantly) we don't know what our ability is. We will have to wait for 4 of us to get whacked before the 4th know what their true role is.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

1- I am assuming one of them is scum already.
2- Yes, we will be addicted. But if they can't kill us AND we have ONE of Vecna/Marquis "uncffeinated" we're still good. That one doesn't get lynched under ANY circumstances. That would be our insurance policy.
3- I'm unlikely to get lynched because the move is apparently pro-town to anyone who plays the game well. I acknowledge 2-3 slots may not still understand, but hey.. that's not enough.
4- Assuming the worst and I do get lynched, my flip will make the bad townies reconsider, and may actually follow the plan afterwards. THAT is still a good cause to die for.
5- My lynch can only be achieved with the help of the multiple voters. Surely they'd be found out if they try to pass this move from me as scummy, and will be totally exposed when I do flip anyway.

My plan did include the possibility of me getting lynched some time later, to both verify my alignment and to preserve the life of our "insurance policy". If you guys are willing to commit to the plan, I am happy to eat rope tomorrow to prove it came from a town mindset. My only fear is you won't (collectively) fully follow the plan after I'm gone. Give me your word you will follow the plan and I will happily be the D2 lynch if needs be.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Who proposed this idea of us being all town

I'm not buying it

I am proposing it now. Feel free to either prove me wrong in theory or find the scum in this PT.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You know, even if there is scum in this PT I'd still recommend we all go join the immortals in their PT. We can all get lynched before Vecna if necessary

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK. I guess I can appreciate your signature more now. GL.

OK, so you can try to lynch me tomorrow (or shoot me tonight) cuz I am going to submit my action anyway. I don't care about this caffeine buffer shit. If you're going to lose at least try to have fun and take some risk.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@chen: You don't come to MY PT and tell me you don't trust me. I AM THE LAW.

I also have just submitted an action for tonight.. just to piss you off. (Apologies go to D1L. GL in trying to play a conventional defemsive game in a non-conventional setup)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Btw..

@ALL: If I die tonight it does prove there is scum in this PT. There's no way in hell any of us gets shot over like half the players list. On that case, one of you should submit an action to join the immortals tomorrow night. If we can't be of use we're acting as a distraction for scum to choose between shooting us and shooting a stronger town PR or something

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I am enjoying this a lot. Keep on talking out of your arses. This account is meant to play however I want regardless of anything. I don't even care if we lose just as long as I force my play in this persona. Nobody listens to A50. and AP had a nother agenda all the time. THIS is where I get to play risky mafia. I'm not backing off.

I even wanted to go radio silent for the rest og the night, but .. you guys are so fucking awful you need to learn some stuff.

From a Mafia PoV they'd need to kill one of us to learn about that mysterious role D1L was trying to protect from outing in the hood. What's this "only midifiers will flip thing?". If not, they're sending a Role Cop, and once they learn we are Doctors (Role Cop soen't get the number of shots.. just a role) they will try to kill us tomorrow.

This id the game where your vote is much more important than your role, and you know what? You can't vote if you're dead. But considering neither of you seems to trust me then it follow your reads are awful and this so will your votes, so I guess you'r right in that your lives in this game ain't worth shit and you should be decoys for scum to shoot instead of other townies.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Mr idiot: AP is my "troll" account. This is my "tough persona" account. I will do things MY WAY on this account. For example, I will not hammer a TR "just to get a lynch". Instead I would go for a No Lynch if the lynchee is a TR of mine.

And whenever someone says "this reminds me of his scum game" I automatically sort then into the idiots pool. NOBODY knows what my scum game looks like. My long time hydra partner has difficulties reading me when we play separately. Most people who claim to have "a good record pegging me" have been literally embarrassed by that claim of late. Ex: Mastina will no longer say she has a confident read on me.

Finally, if you still think I'm scum here you might as well white flag. If I was scum in a setup this complicated you wouldn't stand a chance, because I'd know how to exploit the vulnerabilities of the town AND I would have looked so towny you'd rather eat the rope yourself than lynch me. It's a bloody MECHANICAL game, and I claim that to be my stronger suit.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why? His move makes no sense from town

Yes. Exactly as 0-1 scums in this hood made no sense. You better stick to licking that ice-cream cone. Are you even sure you're Simon Pegg as Nicholas Angel and not Nick Frost as Danny Butterman??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why pops? I think she’s town

For someone who can't see beyond the tip of their nose (or in this case, the ice-cream spot on the tip of their nose) your read on anyone doesn't really matter.

There has to be scum between FL & pops. Unless the mod decided to put TWO scums in the unkillables, in which case we lost already.

P-edit: That has already been explained. You force scum to come hard at you for the lynch OR (if they decide to go for the alternate win con) you form a town block and control the lynch yourself. We need to control the lynch(es) in order to force Bingle to scum claim in the main thread (by using that triple vote he has)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Is it public knowledge that I am in this hood

Yes. I outed the membership of the hood.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

All your worries about the caffeine thing are unwarranted, simply because every single towny harbours the same fears. Not every neighborhood has me in it though.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD pls be cooperative and holster tonight.

I think it's very suboptimal to act tnoight.

OK, but then I'll have to replace myself with AP. That's the clown account that doesn't give a shit either way.

PM'ing the mod now.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@D1L: Please take your butt off the screen and try using your eyes to read. WHERE THE FUCK did I say I wanted to hide our hood? Quote me saying it or even hinting it. If ofrhz doesn't beat me to it >I< am going to report everything that was said in this PT as as soon as I get to post tomorrow. I mean, I will literally tell then I replaced with AP because "the clowns in my PT" refused to do so and so which I had suggested we do, and btw we are 1-shot Doctors with these sanities (list) but we dunno which is which.

I wish Chara was in this game. They would never go against a mechanical play I suggest.. not even if they suspected me. Duh!

My second strongest suit is mechanical play. My first is THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX. THAT is what makes me ME. Take that away and I become .. erm.. a mere Day One Lynch, maybe??

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You say becoming shield for PRs is dumb, but then you go 180 and say

we should let scum use rolecop

and attempt to kill "doc"?

That ain't true either. I didn't say we should. I said that's what they'll do. It's a SCUM move that I would be making if I was scum. It's good FOR SCUM to be doing just that.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Mod turned me down. Seems he doesn't fancy the trouble of me switching accounts. This will be public knowledge too (if I die someone make sure to mention it happened)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

after you hammered town with 100% confidence?

Even the lynchee agreed that was the correct mechanical call at the time. I (and a couple others) tried to launch other competing wagons but none got off. Pelican was going to be lynched 100% of the time, so why delay? It's not like I ended the day prematurely or anything. Everyone got their say and had their time (and even more that they should) to speak up. Just noise and procrastination is all that was left.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

It won’t just be scum coming at you for the lynch because two of your townreads in this hood think you’re scummy for doing this

It posses me off that you read but do NOT comprehend. I SAID I AM WILLING TO PAY THAT PRICE IF IT TAKES YOU OFF YOUR LAZY ASS AND GETS YOU TO FOLLOW MY PLAN. Join the unkillables and then lynch me for it to verify the plan is town-oriented. Then DO NOT LYNCH form that PT (there will be 6 of you) until there;s no one left that isn;t either dead or confirmed.

At that point you lynch Bingle first. Then YOU, then Vecna. If the game doesn't end by then (provided Marquis stays caffeine-free) then you can blame me for losing you the game, but I am betting my soul the game would end in a town win if you follow that plan to the T.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The point of thinking outside the box is coming up with a move nobody had expected. Not even the Mod would have considered this move.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Do we even know that we get the reflexive roleblocking vanillaizing modifier if we join their hood? It’d be funny if we spent all this time arguing over something that doesn’t even happen

It's a PT thing, so yes we do.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@ofrhz: the way you're fighting tooth and nail against this, and grasping to straws is annoying me. You are officially back to the SRs pool.

Let's drop this and move on.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I'm slightly concerned how easily you dropped your idea about town block in Bingle's hood

Read the first post I made about it. WE HAD TO ALL AGREE TO IT. WE HAD TO TRUST EACH OTHER AND WORK TOGETHER FROM NOW ON. If only one or two of us joined there it's not that effective.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

The way she's arguing against the idea using anything she can is sus as hell. Don't you think?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK. Whatever you say, boss. Just don't count this game towards my JJD meta in the future. You can chalk it up AP still, cuz that's where I'd be sheeping and not given a fuck. (WAIT! AP DOES give a lot of FUCK)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Not the strength.. the excuses/reasoning. For example: "Do we even know we get the modifier" she asked already in 67 and D1L responded in the very next post, yet she asks again in 149. Did she not read the first response or did she forget she asked already? And if she did forget then she's not really interested in the answer, but is using the argument against the idea. If she didn't read the answer earlier, why didn't she follow up with the question if she thought it went unanswered?

I mean, go reread her whole ISO and how she's been arguing.. HOW.. with WHAT.. not "how strong" she's arguing against it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

At this point, I think you’ve resolved to join the other hood. I’m no longer trying to dissuade you but to understand why because I don’t think it holds water

@Chen: Another evidence she isn't actually reading this thread. Add it to her previous incidents that lead me to believe she's TOTALLY not reading anything but looking for angles to attack me.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I'd say Town spew considering how Pine reacted to her slip

I'd hate to admit Bingle does look townier now, because of his readlist from D1. He had both FM & chandra next to each other and towards the lower end of it.

Marquis reads fro, D1 look bad in hindsight, but I dunno if it's scum indicative. especially since Pelican also had both flipped scums in his town pile.

I still don't trust Croag ftr, and vecna's procrastination and dance around chandra after the slip doesn't bode well with me.

AND DON'T YOU FORGET ABOUT THE CAFFEINE CLAIMS. I did target ofrhz last night, so unless I was RB'd (which isn't likely considering only 4 caffeinated players) I was not the CPR doctor.

So, basically my top 3 suspects are: Marquis/Vecna/Croag (in no particular order). We should probably have result(s) from the Cops tomorrow though, and those should really help.

I don't think any of you should act tonight either. We don't want top be blocking a Cop (Croag) and the other two suspects of mine are untargetable.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I will do some re-skimming later tonight and report if I find anything if interest

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Marquis equity for being scum is sky rocketing upon a reread. His responses on pages 1 & 2 to being voted are superficial and the Miller claim is unsettling. Then Fish intervenes to defend him when pops voted him for that claim. (FTR, if it wasn't for the game mechanics I'd also be SRing Pine for the Marquis response to his vote. "Don't do that to me" sounds more like talking to a p after he had called chandra's vote on him stupid, so it's like he was annoyed they wanted to bus him so early, which lead to him claiming Miller. An "untargetable Miller?"

HOWEVER, #47 can come from town. He pointed out 1 scum being in him (the wagon was composed of chandra/Pine/pops), so it;s not conclusive.

Then comes #80. Just before that read list he was calling chandra "not town", then he places her above Fish whom he was calling town.
My guess is he put PP (who had all but claimed a Cop) atop to pocket him. I think Marquis didn;t understand the mechanics of his PT at the start of the game and thought he could be investigated, thus the pocket and the Miller claim.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On another note, #85 cleard D1L already, Fish says that's the one slit he doesn't know.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Forgot to mention Marquis isn;t a member of the Millers hood, which is also alarming.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

#103 also sounds yucky now. Am I conf!biasing already?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And FL certainly isn't Scum

with

Marquis

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Btw, #114 is inaccurate. I do not "prefer" scum. I just don't care which alignment I roll. (I sometimes hate playing scum after having won as scum because it's much harder to get away with it twice in a row).

#122 tells me FL is TOWN. Fish is calling him a liar for claiming Miller!! That kinda also clears pop to a certain level.

#125: I think I learned not to totally discount a dead townie's PoV. FL is confirmed a Miller, so Marquis is BSing.

I think I'm ruling out pops & FL as scum. They're both Town to me by page 6.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Fcuking Bingle though

That lolhammer actually pisses me off because I wanted to actually sort Kagami

I did that before myself as town, so I can understand.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD you're my #1 TR

Can I take some credit for you not being mislynched for the postgame flex

You have my permission.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I'd hate to admit Bingle does look townier now, because of his readlist from D1. He had both FM & chandra next to each other and towards the lower end of it.

Why are you discounting TMI

It's not common to put two of your scum mates next to each other. At least put one at the bottom and one 2-3 notches above.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That hood on unkillables needs to be sorted soon. Bingle also claimed Miller and it still doesn't make sense to me. If FL is town (and he is) we started the game with 2 Town Vigs, so it makes most sense to have at least one unkillable scum.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Things that could work in Marquis' favour: He seems to have forgot scum have daytalk (could be faked) and him noy agreeing to a lot what chandra says (post #275)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Kagami's town. that vote on Fish Monger in #364 comes out of the left field it makes no sense to be a bus. It doesn't even have any logic or reasoning to back it up so it doesn't work for a distancing move, and there was no pressure for a Monger wagon either. In short, Kagami literally had the whole player list to pick from and would have had the exact effect which is NOTHING.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And something tells me #395 isn't how scum!Bingle talks to Scum!chandra about the vote on Scum!Monger, and certainly not with daytalk.

P-edit: I', doing a skim reread so let me wait and see. I mean, the difference is I now know both chandra and FM were scums so some things that may have slipped through the first time may become a little more obvious this time

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Mafia!Maequis equity rising again. Page 17 FM seems to be talking to his scum buddies mainly (If I didn't already cross out FL I'd be calling the team chandra/FM/Marquis/FL) and then FM defends Marquis at the top of the next page. (note that he was defending Marquis earlier too)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

#426 By Vecna tells me he is unlikely FM's partner.

#467 is how scum place their partners on a readlist. Let me copy & paste (too much trouble PMing it to myself and copying):
Marquis Pelican
PenguinP Gork
--The Rest--
Chandra
Kuribo Flavor
Pops

See? Chandra is a scum read with with 3 townies below her. One scum should be in the top 4 too. Which one? PP? I don;t think so. Gork/chenn? I refuse to consider it. Pelican? He already flipped a townie. So, it's most likely Marquis... AGAIN.

Unless FM's soul purpose was to frame Marquis with strong fake connections to himself, I'd say Marquis should be lynched tomorrow.. unless -if course- the Cops have a guilty.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

VC 1.3 (post #529): No more than ONE scum on SCUM!FM. I'd bet the game on it. Kagami definitely town here.
Also Marquis is the competing wagon to FM's and look where FM and chandra are voting.
I also don't like ofrhz' static vote on pops. I've used that trick of "an all scum wagon train" at least twice before.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Page 32, near the bottom.. chandra tried to shade ofrhz. Not sure if it's distancing or scum pushing town, but chnadra was not in such a bad position so I'd give ofrhz one town point for it.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

#853 I can finally completely strike off Vecna from the suspects list. Read it. I'd bet my helmet these two weren't talking in the scum chat

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I want to TR ofrhz for #1001 (by chandra), but I also can't help feeling suspicious of her whole play. Something's amiss and it's bothering me.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Too much noise in the 40-50 pages

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Serious answer: I dunno. I would have said ask skitter, except she power lynched me on D1 in the game that just ended when I was TOWN. She also had a strong TR on ofrhz who was scum. Erm.. my best guess is to PM Mathdino and -if you are lucky- he may tell you something. From my own PoV I play exactly the same, but I probably keep my lynch options open as scum (which still looks like Town me who has no clue), so there's that.

Let's ask ofrhz here: How do you differentiate between scum!A50/AP/JJD and town!him?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Pretty much as I expected. Then how we can be sure about our townreads on you? And why you not question people TRing you, if you claim there's no difference between your town and scum plays?

I've just bloody lynched scum on D2 after scum had already been killed on N1. I am not RadiantCowbells!!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Your associations with flipped scum aren’t good though

I very much agree. I was on chandra's throat all game, and it does look like something scum me would do.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also how can it be possible that you targeted me and 3 cops used their actions and fish died N1? ...?

THAT is the question. chandra didn't act (as a cop) for starters. The Vecna lied about being caffeinated (I think he retracted it?). Marquis didn't send anyone anything. At least keep an eye out for these slots. That was my main point.

Let me reiterate this though: 3 Cops did NOT act. Only two did. chandra lied and -most probably- shot Kuribo instead. Keep in mind scum may have been informed of their sanities too. We don't really know that they're as clueless as we are.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

You shouldn't take his claim about visiting you for granted,

Generally true, but in this situation I'd rather you do, because it will help catch more scum.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Then go ISO me in the main thread. Better yet, double ISO me vs chandra. See if it makes any sense for us to be on the same side.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

She even called me a DICK.. for a joke that wasn't even directed at her!

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And then there's the fact FL said he would shoot Monger if we lynched Pelican, and >I< hammered Pelican.
And then there's the fact I was the first oen to bring up chandra's skip despite her having posted twice afterwards to try and cover it up. pops even realized it and suggested scum!me would have hoped it would be lost, and there was a good chance it would if I wasn't paying extra attention to chandra because I wanted her lynched.

Like, that's how you do read me in general, or at least how I think you can.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I thought I explained it in 193 & 198. Do you really think 2 scums were bussing Monger this early when it wasn't even likely he would get lynched, and FL had yet to say anything about shooting him?

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That's your prerogative, and I won't be fighting tooth and nail against his lynch if it comes to it, but I think one scum Cop was enough because I feel scum needed to know as much as they could have about mechanics and roles of the other hoods. Every hood that has 2 scums means they don't know about one more other hood, and that's assuming 5 scums even. Assuming 4 they already had one hood undisclosed to them, so 2 in the Cops hood = 2 hoods they had not infiltrated, and that'd be a bit town sided I think.

And besides, 2 Scum Cops would have completely messed up that hood's results I think with fake results. I haven't really done the math, but one liar has far less impact than 2 liars out of 4

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

And I personally don't care if you TR me or not. I am not here to please you or play in the way YOU think is best. I thought that was demonstrated from the very first time we played together.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD, so about your scumread on ofrhz...

P-edit: I hope he won't survive till tomorrow

He will. It was mentioned in-thread (by Bingle iirc) that the hood action resolves first, so Scum!FL is joining the unkillables BEFORE Marquis shoots him. I also expect Bingle to convince Marquis to shoot me instead, so this is probably my last night in this game.

FL is scum. Bingle is either stupid or scum. I am not even sure I have any other "real suspects" by now.

Note: If it is Bingle/FL we already lost. NO WAY you're gonna lynch them both in this town.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That makes 2 of us. 2 isn't a majority. besides, Bingle is a double voter tomorrow still, so he may hammer someone else if town wagon them against him (I don't think he does it if we wagon FL though because they distanced enough)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Just don't forget.. one of you is a CPR Doctor. The other is Sane/Paranoid

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

OK.. whoever is town in the Reflexive PT is a jerk. (And I won't ask for this to be redacted). Unless it's literally you + a Cop (in which case VERY GOOD PLAY) I don't see how they hard TR each other so hard.

OBVIOUSLY you should not act tonight, You're probably the NK though

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Actually... the NK is either you or one of the Cops. I am never being shot bc I am the designated mislynch. You can CPR me tonight, so we can bring the game back to an odd number, AND eliminate the scum motivated ML on me. If I do survive with you targeting me then I will be the lynch anyway (note that you cannot be b shot in that case bc I'd be telling my scum p to shoot me if I was scum).

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Just consider the option and DO NOT TELL ME whether you acted or not. There is a good chance they are shooting a Cop if both Cops are Town. On the other hand, you are certainly the one to kill if one Cop is scum.