Micro 1073: Purgatory | Martyr PT

[Aisa]

[Aisa]

It's like MY VERY OWN NOTES PT! Ahaha yes I am very responsible with notes PTs as we know

[Aisa]

Anyway, this is pretty sweet. I was getting pretty worried about how I handled my read on Ranger. I was worried that my read came off stronger than it was, I was worried that if Ranger flipped before me and flipped red I would have been in trouble.

I'm also glad I won't to feel pressure to justify all the little twists and changes in my reads anymore.

[Aisa]

I'll also wonder if in a way no longer having me in the thread will be good for the game's reads? I can write pretty long posts when I have something to say, but in the last few days' I've been quite worried about scenarios such as Bella scum, Vanders scum, or Ranger scum. I've called all three town at some point, and I worry that I expressed my reads too strongly relative to how good or certain they were.

[Aisa]

I see the length of a Judgment Day is 5 days - nice. In that case I think the plan is to continue taking a break from the game for 24 hours, because 1. I'm tired for IRL reasons and 2. maybe a little reset will improve my reads.

[Aisa]

So anyway, Vander, what do you have for scumreads now? You obviously were scumreading Ranger- does Aisa being town affect that? She was most interested in defending Ranger, do you think she was wrong?

Hey! No sheeping D:<

[Aisa]

I am uncomfortable that Ranger hit E-1 so fast.

Since when? lmaoo

[Aisa]

Kinda inconvenient that I can no longer ask people questions

[Aisa]

I've decided Aureal is probably town. 75%?
Related but separate, if I had to send someone to hell I don't think I would have the stomach to.

[Aisa]

I've decided Aureal is probably town. 75%?
Related but separate, if I had to send someone to hell I don't think I would have the stomach to SEND HER.

ebwop

[Aisa]

So anyway, Vander, what do you have for scumreads now? You obviously were scumreading Ranger- does Aisa being town affect that? She was most interested in defending Ranger, do you think she was wrong? And who else would you see as being scum with Ranger since it seemed like you were most wary of Aisa? You've been feeling most everyone else is somewhat towny, but there's got to be two more scum in there.

Yeah I mean it seems even more likely now that Aisa was wrong, I don't understand why scum would want to send Aisa to heaven over me if they know that Ranger is town and they can get an extremely reliable kill there to win the game if they can lim someone other than Ranger today.

S C A T H I N G
But correct
(Unless Vanders is scum)

[Aisa]

Now, I

could

reread the game
But I could also play Stardew Valley

[Aisa]

I was trying to scumread Drew, but Drew and Arko are the same slot? God, this game sure is confusing

[Aisa]

I thought I would be so much better at spotting scum after 2 months of only playing scum, but... sure doesn't feel like it!

I promise that if I ever get a friend I will rein in the posting. Until then, though... this will be my personal fiefdom!

[Aisa]

Heaven feels kinda underwhelming, it is an endless sea of violet and I'm not even any smarter than I was two days ago...

[Aisa]

Tbf maybe if I read the game instead of spamming the PT I would have reads

[Aisa]

It's post 27+1 out of 587+1 and I townread the lemon so very much

[Aisa]

Heaven is a scam ^^

I'm not super confident in other scum, very likely not OE/Enchant.

Kinda stale read hmm?

[Aisa]

Kinda tinfoiling OE/Enchant + Vanders + someone else

[Aisa]

Page 4 vanders is not that towny for content, those timestamps tho

[Aisa]

Post #98 and I continue to TR the lemon

[Aisa]

I've read the first 4 pages of the game skipping the first 2. Hard day of work done.

[Aisa]

But as far as the Aisa read on Ranger, that really is a big wifom sandwich you are you are proposing here.

Oh yes, absolutely.

Also you are defending Ranger without actually 'defending' her. A bit sketch imo.

If I had explicitly spelled out the wifom argument as well for extra confusion and indecision, would it still be "defending without actually 'defending'"?

The irony here is that you are using the Aisa 'oops all caught as scum' defense (patent pending).

Discredit a read while making it a joke at the same time.

Wait… I do this?

[Aisa]

The irony here is that Drew is also using my defense and that his use of the defense feels worse than Aureal’s use of the defense.

[Aisa]

It's MS hour again!

I actually back ox over the “technically” point to be fair (might not agree with it but I can see why it pinged them)

Saying “technically” implies in reality it isn’t NAI

Hmm

Ox can you explain to me why you zeroed in on arko when multiple people were discussing setup spec at the time?

MS ate my first post, so I'm typing it again:

Nobody else's setup was as substantial or meaningful as Arko's. Us and Vader literally posted like a single post, that wasn't even that long in response to that. Vader's post was "I think this setup is townsided" - which, genuinely reads to me as someone just going "I wanna get into the game, and need a way to get *into* the game - I'll post if I think the setup is townsided or scumsided" - which... is NAI to me. It comes off more as someone who hasn't played this setup before going "I think this might be a townsided setup." Now, if Vader went "I think it's townsided for X, Y, and Z" that'd be different and we'd have zeroed in on that too. Our post is a single sentence saying that the setup might be scumsided and we should probably focus on finding townies. That's it. That's all there is to it.

Arko's posts, is just nothing. It's nothing of use, and people are TRing that. That's the problem. I looked at it again, because Grim didn't leave me specifically any notes about what they saw that made them think it's scummy, but there is one thing I noticed that I exceptionally

do not like

from Arko's postings, and I'm pretty sure it's what Grim saw and made it go "I don't like your posts" and it's the quoted below:

A saint going to heaven might as well not happen, it just makes the sinners closer to their 2nd wincon, and closer they are to that, more they can influence.

I don't like this because it makes it seem like sending townies to heaven is bad, when in reality it's good we do so. Scum have comms with their partners at all times. It doesn't matter what we do, scum are going to communicate all the time regardless. We should be sending townies to heaven when it comes up, and scum to hell when it comes up. There is no room for "well actually sending townies to heaven is bad" - NO. IT'S NOT. If we hit evens, the townies we sent to heaven vote on who they think is mafia. Like at worst, it's heaven 2, and it's a 4v3. That just means all the townies need to coordinate who they want to vote for. That's not *bad* because it forces scum into a position of they gotta help with this, or risk being spotted by that. Like, ugh. This post is so bad, words do not begin to describe it.

Trying to not send saints to heaven is actually anti-town because that's what scum wants. They want the sinners to go to heaven, not the saints. The entire point of the heaven day is to kill a townie. If you don't want to kill a townie, you're scum.

Other of Arko's posts that ping me:

Spoiler:

Actually, thought of it as more maf-sided
A saint going to hell is a benefit as it means one less martyr and one closer to their secondary win con
A sinner going to hell is a problem for them as you'd expect
A saint going to heaven might as well not happen, it just makes the sinners closer to their 2nd wincon, and closer they are to that, more they can influence.
A sinner going to heaven literally is their main objective

Basically, only 1 option makes the saints get closer to their win-con, while 2 make the sinner closer to their win-con. a Saint going to heaven has both benefits and disadvantages for both teams. A: More Time for Saints to take out Sinners in hell B: Sinners get more influence and closer to their 2nd win-con.

But from the history- the setup seems town sided.
And yeah, saints definitely start with an advantage, so if they are good enough they can win pretty easily.
White-Flag is a fucking bitch for scum, everyone knows that.
But without white-flag yeah scum might actually have the advantage.
It's a pretty hard to balance setup idea, in all honesty.

Setup spec posts that I think do nothing but fill space.

I'm going for the night, See ya.

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

Weird thing to say, especially because right now - posting doesn't equate scum. Some people just are busy, and have lives. That's actually NAI if someone doesn't post within the first five or so pages. If it's been like a day or two since daystart and someone hasn't posted, sure, I could see it being NAI. But not at gamestart.

VOTE: Arko

VOTE: Aisa

@Asia, Bella, KK - where those votes at?

VOTE: AurorusVox

why these votes specifically?

I'm gonna ask this question too. I wasn't looking here till now. Aisa, Are you like- Going for an OMGUS vote on Aur? and BB, I mean I understand if you aren't agreeing with the townreads, it could easily come from a sinner (There are 3 of them!) but what's your specific thoughts on me?

Weird point out that there are three scum present.

Fair point, No real reason for me to be townread for that, It's technically pretty NAI.

Technically post again. I feel very comfortable in saying that it makes me feel like Arko wants this to be AI, but can't get away with claiming it's AI, so it's "technically" NAI. It doesn't sit right with us regardless.

Impressed by the length of this, though the arguments are not particularly convincing!

[Aisa]

Also something about the tone and/or exact writing style pings me scum a bit, a little meta dive might be in order

[Aisa]

Slowly but inexorably talking myself into Vanders + Drew + Enchant, send help

[Aisa]

^I need to remember that I can still change my reads, also it's ok to have a team solve after I've reread the whole game but it's not ok to have a team solve on page 5 which is where I am currently.

Spoiler: this game

grim:

VOTE: arko

i don't like ur posting.

e-2.

grim: i’m calling it’s e-2 so scum cant quickhammer. i dont like ur phrasing of “its technically NAI” like it implies that there’s somehow a chance its townie in this setup to setup spec.

realistically, the only setup spec that actually matters is if it’s better to townhunt or scumhunt the whole game bc trying to switch between both seems like a bit much.

also, ur reaction to my e-2 vote is interesting and i wanna think abt it.

Spoiler: Turf Wars

It's worth noting that if you're suspecting your partner, them flipping mafia confirms you as town so that's cool

This pings me as townie for the simple reason of I didn't realize the error in this, which I think is a mistake town would be more likely to make, rather than scum deliberately going "I can post this to look like I didn't read the setup! Haha! Free town credit for me!"

...is furtive saying he knows both scum are not in the same neighborhood?

VOTE: furtiveglance

What. What is this vote.

furtive please talk players and not mechanics

grim: mech talk is ok imo. that's a lot of what i did when i played under vv was talk mech. i think at the beginning of the game mech talk to get out of rvs is good, and maybe a little past rvs is ok. i don't see a problem with that.

Patch, why are you trying to control what people can and can't talk about?

Really seems like you are trying to control the narrative.

grim (+drel, +kori): +1

I think I've found posts both from grim from two different games, this one and Turf Wars, where Ox was town. grim is a lot more tolerant of mech posting early on in that game. The reads from Ox in that game in general seem a bit more nuanced, there's some "this is NAI" early on rather than an immediate jump to "I don't like this" about... mech posting.

Confbias go brrr

[Aisa]

In hindsight Arko's whole Ox E-2 fiasco sure is a bit sus

[Aisa]

Apologies for murdering your theory that Ox and Arko were not scum together if you're town, Vanders

[Aisa]

Okkk yeah tbf page 6 is some evidence that maybe Arko + OE not partnered after all

[Aisa]

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

it just makes me feel like ranger has very deterministically decided what alignment we are, and what arko is, and not gonna re-evaluate.

Kori: I also had a dream we killed Arko and Arko was scum.

I do kinda like Oclaxian Empire's latest 3 posts, yeah. We're less than 72 hours in and I've already been tempted to townread everyone except KawaiiKame. No offense to you Kawaii, it's just that 1 post in RVS is not a lot to go off of

I take this back, feels pretty NAI after all

[Aisa]

More juicy Vanders timestamps at the bottom of page 8, can he do this as scum? Maybe I need to find a different pet scumread?

[Aisa]

Maybe Ranger fits into this team instead?

[Aisa]

Maybe I will give myself permission to skip pages 9-12 tomorrow, found it hard to sort Ranger and maybe it's just not worth the anguish if I can be more productive reading other pages

[Aisa]

Actually maybe it’s worth writing this down before I fall asleep. My current tier list is
{Aureal}
{AurorusVox}
{Bella}
{Vanders, Ranger}
{Drew, Enchant}

I feel ok about my top 2 TRs but don’t have confidence in any scumread, which, uh, given the setup I would like to fix
Maybe also worth triple checking that my top two TRs are worth TRing

[Aisa]

I also kinda don’t remember why I TRed Bella / not sure she’s so towny that she deserves being in the little tier above Ranger and Vanders

[Aisa]

If Vox is scum I will cry*
*any crying is for illustrative purposes only and there is no welfare concern over here

[Aisa]

With that said, haha no solving tonight

[Aisa]

I am uncomfortable that Ranger hit E-1 so fast.

I am bored can someone being sent already?

Hmm?

[Aisa]

Well now that my most confident townread also townreads my second most confident townread I'm never changing my reads again this game, am I?

[Aisa]

I have a little time during which I can continue rereading, I can probably manage page 13 in this time.

I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?

Saying "vibed obvtown" then reevaluating seems more towny than not

I think this remains a good point.

Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.

This seems significant - I remember at the time having an epiphany that made me feel like I completely understood Bella’s thought process here, I want to go back to the previous page to see if I can understand this again.

[Aisa]

Hello

Aww, wholesome, and I contributed to this dying

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)

This seems like a slight misunderstanding of Vanders’ post.
Bella is saying “I’ve been skimming Ranger’s posts, therefore everyone else must be skimming R’s posts”, but this is irrelevant when I literally just implied to have read R’s post.

I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?

I can’t quite work out what to make of this.

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)

Yeah, I was expecting to have a scum read on Aisa for it but their response was fine.

Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.

Wait, I don’t think I actually found the information I wanted to help me with this post

[Aisa]

I FINALLY REMEMBERED but it’s so convoluted

[...]
As for Arko, I've vibed with them from the beginning. First page was just vibes of rvs + liking their mechtalk; the townread started in earnest from 26. Specifically,

Also- I'm betting now that one of the non-posters is a sinner. the other 2 are probably within this group of 7 though as you could probably obviously tell.

I loved this thought process.

I liked the engagement in 41.
I liked the sentiment of 43/48/61/65.
54 is an approach I feel comes from a town mindset.
The explanation of 69 is an approach which is nai, but the context of sharing it makes me lean town. (Someone explaining their philosophy is nai in of itself. The context behind explaining the philosophy can be ai, in this case, +town.)
I felt 118 was a good approach upon returning to the thread.
154 is not a scum post.

There's good reason Arko's my top townread.
Near as I can tell, there's no reason for Arko to be scum.

Yeahhhh you know what, these are good points. Arko gets my townread!

Are they good points?
Did you click on any of the posts that Ranger linked to see which posts they were talking about?

This is a genuine question, I'm interested in the answer to this.
I'm interested if you agreed with the reads on all of the individual posts, or just some of them.

I really like this, mainly because I am now skimming rangers posts;)

So, we’ve established I don’t really agree with the approach that Bella has taken here: I don’t think the fact she has been skimming Ranger’s posts means Vanders’ question to me is useful. Vanders’ question to me feels mostly rhetorical and / or fake.

This seems like it could come from town or scum, per se. But if Bella is town, her perspective here is: “I’m thinking about Asia’s alignment and wondering if that post is a town post or a scum post”.

I can't work out my read on aisa at all: I thought vibed obv!town, then I was weirdes out about them being so strange about granting a town read, then town again, then I disliked their jumping in fully with ranger, but their response was vibe town again. The thing that's bothering me about their recent posting though is that it feels quite ...self conscious?

…which is basically the same perspective in this post.

Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.

…and here. You wouldn’t say “fair” unless you were actively trying to sort Aisa here, or trying to fake the same.

So what I’m trying to say is: it would have been more worrying to me if Bella had first misunderstood / misutilised Vanders’ post, then switched to a different perspective. But she didn’t.

This said I feel like I haven’t even achieved a very strong result here, I make it sound like staying consistent in two posts an hour apart is really hard but… it’s not ;-;

[Aisa]

Monitoring this PT wistfully, as if anyone would have posted in it other than me :3

[Aisa]

Day... 4? ...5? of being in Heaven. The days are starting to blur together a little. The other angels are not too interested in earthly concepts such as time, which makes it increasingly hard to track when the deadline is. I can also feel my interest in Purgatory waning, because I spend >50% of my time making joke posts like these in the Heaven PT instead of keeping up with the latest news. Yet the allure of some earthly temptations remains, because in the rest of the time I can't think of all the glory I will have when I find the perfect scum team solve. Are they sure I am perfectly purified and didn't end up here by mistake? The peace and stillness are a little numbing.

God is nowhere to be seen. I am not sure why he needs me, one of the newest faces in here, to carry out this Judgment Day for him when his all-knowing could solve this with the blink of an eye. Maybe he's on a business trip?

[Aisa]

Day... 4? ...5? of being in Heaven. The days are starting to blur together a little. The other angels are not too interested in earthly concepts such as time, which makes it increasingly hard to track when the deadline is. I can also feel my interest in Purgatory waning, because I spend >50% of my time making joke posts like these in the Heaven PT instead of keeping up with the latest news. Yet the allure of some earthly temptations remains, because in the rest of the time I can't

help but

think of all the glory I will have when I find the perfect scum team solve. Are they sure I am perfectly purified and didn't end up here by mistake? The peace and stillness are a little numbing.

God is nowhere to be seen. I am not sure why he needs me, one of the newest faces in here, to carry out this Judgment Day for him when his all-knowing could solve this with the blink of an eye. Maybe he's on a business trip?

ebwop
Everyone knows the superior time to proofread your post is after you've hit the submit button

[Aisa]

Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.

Why do you think it feels town sided?

This reads REALLY bad, I feel like it's way too late in the game to care about these questions.

This just reeks of fake hunting.

Oh no, I agreed with this post too readily at the time!

[Aisa]

Reading the game, I see there's a new post...
Please don't let it be a VC please don't let it be a VC

[Aisa]

Lol ^

Wall of reactions to Drew's catch up, let's see where this takes me!

Spoiler:

P1

RVS and setup talk, Ranger being Ranger....gets heat for it.....blah

Vander in post 24, pings as scum for trying to force a read maybe, stay tuned

No thoughts

Spoiler:

Eh, I felt like ranger making a reads list was the end of rvs?

Why is set up spec so towny? Like, it just seems factual

That’s just Ranger’s playstyle

Like I said.

No thoughts

Spoiler:

I just thought it was a bit suspicious for Arko to gain so much support so quickly for things I thought was mostly NAI (setup spec).

Huh?

Understandable reaction, to be fair!

Spoiler:

Oh God P3 sucks, this argument hurts my brain.

Fine I guess, seems mildly towny.

Spoiler:

P4, liking vander for town

I always town read Korina(Ox) early on, then I end to sway from that position.......but it really feels like typical them.....

So I can't hate the heat on them, but can't hate them as well.....shrugs

A bit hedgy, wonder if it is a bit forced?

Spoiler:

I don't think this is ai from ox, I seem to remember this just being them. I think vander has the best take on what they were saying though.

What's weird is that it didn't make me feel more about arko.

Did you just read my post??

Oh, ya this was in the past lol.....carry on.

Getting a bit of a bad vibe on Aisa here on P5.....she started in rvs(nothing wrong with that), but has barely progressed out of it.

You know I definitely got my eye on you as well Aisa

The reaction to Bella is nice, the read on me is Yikes though xx

Spoiler:

Skipped a bit ahead.

P8, ooh some fireworks.

I don't hate Vox calling out my formal self, I would have done the same, some town points for you, don't spend it all at once.

The Ox/Ranger spat seems.....petty? I dunno, hope it gets fleshed out a bit in the next few pages......legit pings me as scum v scum.

Ox's brief self vote was bad.

Also Aisa and Vander seem like some theater.

Scum v scum never crossed my mind, lol. I guess it is possible, but I don't share this reaction.

Spoiler:

I think blood is quite towny, I agree with all of what they're saying.

Agreed, although still not loving you and Aisa for town, so there is that.....speaking of

I need rest too, last points before I go:
- Ranger is town, Ranger wagon not good, if I wake up tomorrow and see that you people have decided to hammer Ranger before I can post again I am certainly not going to be advocating for sending any of you to heaven in the next phase xx
- Not going to fan the flames on Oclaxian Empire's wagon when I haven't digested the whole case, but at a first glance I like that vote a lot more than Ranger or Arko.
- Welcome to the game Kowahbunga!
- Happy scumday, AurorusVox!
- Am I just going to sheep Ranger into oblivion this game? Keep reading to find out!

Maybe it is just bias, but feeling the same scummy vibes from you Aisa. And the part about hoping Ranger isn't hammered before you can post screams of Titus from ChatGPT.

I might be unfair, but you are lucky I am not vig this game

More or less done with my catchup.....kinda skimmed a bit but wanted to at least get the general gist of the happenings here.

Mm, all we know about Drew on Bloodb0t so far is that he raised eyebrows at a previous post by Blood. I guess he could have changed his mind.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Oclax

As described don't love Aisa or Vander for town, but there is a vibe thing going on there that is making me think associative, so may be getting ahead of myself, especially with my bias of seeing Aisa scum so much recently lol.

Ranger and Oclax, as I said, could easily be theater scum v scum, so I think it is best to them having be competing wagons, and as mentioned I hated Oclax's brief self vote.....seemed overly dramatic and playing to their meta.

Mmm, I don't know if I buy the idea that he knows he is biased. Also wait, if I and Vanders could be scum together (is that what he's saying), and Ranger and Oclax could be scum together, why the different treatment?

[Aisa]

I'm not really getting anywhere different, which could be good or bad, I keep reading and thinking it's Drew + Enchant + Vanders.

[Aisa]

I can *feeeeel* the idea seizing up my brain like cement.

[Aisa]

Again... send help.

[Aisa]

GIVE ME SOMEONE TO TALK TO
*bangs head against prison bars*

[Aisa]

The earliest timeline in which I get a friend is if town elims scum today and saved a townie tomorrow, in which case we'd be in 3v2 and I'd have a little angel friend, which would be pretty exciting.

[Aisa]

I don't like Aisu for pairing with Ranger, but idk if that's townie or not. Will be able to post more later.

askdajsdj it's like I SEE posts like these and my brain immediately maps them to obvious scum agenda

Drew repped in? Oh god. I can't read Drew and I'm ready to policy Drew at any time for that tbh.

This one is a bit better tbf if theatre it's a convincing theatre.

[Aisa]

Did like rangers response about reading posts, did kinda like Drew's catch up but his scum reads are my biggest town reads.

I am more than willing to admit my read could be wrong on Aisa, just that nothing jumps out at me as different than her scum game.....but I have only seen her scum game as of late.

Not sure how I feel about this

Can someone link the chat game?

Bella was town the last time she did this, but I stated that I was tempted to townread her for this, can I still trust the tell?

[Aisa]

Ok I'm gonna continue reading from page 17 next time, but before I go...

Ok I don't like Kow anymore, and I think I am feeling better about Aisa.

VOTE: Kow

Openwolf moment à la Nyx? But is this necessary if both Kowahbunga and Ranger are town? Is Ranger scum? Is Drew setting up a fake associative? Is he just doing the scum thing of "I sense a miselim and I must capitalise on this opportunity"? Am I tunnelling a townie?

[Aisa]

Confbias go brrr

[Aisa]

Ok yeah, I am a bit worried about Aureal being scum now.

Granted, I'm usually worried about most things one could worry about at any one time, but

[Aisa]

I’m going to say you’re just town for the rest of the game until I need to re-eval for now, bc I can’t read you and you can’t read me.

viewtopic.php?t=90590

drew cant read us, and we cant read him. kinda nai to see us push him and want to policy him, since i’d do the same if i was drew. at least the policy might give some info for both of us on the other while we push

Well if you wanna see first hand I can’t read Drew and vice versa - turf wars just ended.

Using old games to decipher current games is a fallacy.

i dont think using that game as evidence for a read in this game is a fallacy, especially since it literally just ended. unless u wanna claim drew is an actual god at meta manipulation and is actively manipulating as scum here to look town.

Fascinating, like are Oclaxian Empire actually claiming Drew is town or not? Are they giving a read based on that game?

[Aisa]

It was whatever at first with the "I can't read Drew" but then when Oclaxian posted

I’m going to say you’re just town for the rest of the game until I need to re-eval for now, bc I can’t read you and you can’t read me.

I couldn't help but feel like this is some sort of scum theatre. Like my first thought when I read this was "this would be good to say from scum POV if both of them are scum" and when that's my first instinct after reading something, I like to explore it to see what others think about it. It just felt like Oclaxian setting up a reason for him to be wrong about Drew if needed.

It could be scum!Oclaxian and town!drew or scum!oclaxian and scum!drew

This is not helped by the fact that Oclaxian has made:

354
368
369
371
373
404
409

...this many posts about not being able to read Drew. Telling us you can't read some one over and over and over helps how? Telling us once helps how? The only reason you would want to make sure to hammer this point home is that you want us to remember it and a single post wouldn't cut it. This is a very strange way to act from a town pov imo because these posts don't help anything but your post count and to create a narrative that may come into play later on. It was unprovoked information too. So you want us to know this, but this doesn't help town at all. I believe any town person would have just kept this information to themselves and did their best to figure it out this time.

VOTE: oclaxian

This is pretty decent posting in hindsight!

[Aisa]

Ok I don't like Kow anymore, and I think I am feeling better about Aisa.

VOTE: Kow

grim: intent to hammer in abt 3 hours before sleeping.

grim: intent to hammer in abt 3 hours before sleeping.

So now you are fine with a Kow elim?

i’m willing to compromise and not wait a day for an inevitable hammer yeah.

i think kowah’s posting is fairly scummy and i still want ranger dead but i think kowah can go first

i’m willing to compromise and not wait a day for an inevitable hammer yeah.

i think kowah’s posting is fairly scummy and i still want ranger dead but i think kowah can go first

We are kinda on the same page now, just was curious how your read changed from before.

And tbf, my read changed as well as I said.

Hehh, I'm sure I'm looking at something significant but what could it possibly mean exactly? :hmm:

[Aisa]

Skipped a bit ahead.

P8, ooh some fireworks.

I don't hate Vox calling out my formal self, I would have done the same, some town points for you, don't spend it all at once.

The Ox/Ranger spat seems.....petty? I dunno, hope it gets fleshed out a bit in the next few pages......

legit

pings me as scum v scum.

Ox's brief self vote was bad.

Also Aisa and Vander seem like some theater.

Also this reminded me of this: ahh, Drew, now that you've said that the ping is

legit

I'm so much more convinced it's legit

[Aisa]

I see kowabunga was just hammered, that seems fine, my biggest concern is that Ranger did it.

What does this meannn? I'm disappointed I did not ask. Like, either it's a good elim or it's a bad elim, maybe the fact that Ranger did it makes it more likely that it's a bad elim but if so it's not "fine".

...Day ∞ of me tunnelling the exact same scumteam, we're making no progress here @_@

[Aisa]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe the post is fine

[Aisa]

Maybe I should stop worrying, accept that I'm sending Enchant to Hell if it comes up, and take a vacation

[Aisa]

Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone

Hypocrite.

Why?
I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.

Still. You agree with my take (

vaguely

,

towny

, in

tone

) in strength and reason.
Yet attack me for having that same read.

If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine.

The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.

I repeat: hypocrite.

My read is no different than yours.

I formed it from reading the thread and coming to a conclusion.

Nothing more.

I've explained my stance and how I came to those conclusions.
I explained why it was not strong. (Explicitly, it's a mixture of vibes, gut, tone, and lean. Not the basis of a strong read.

Strongest

townread, but not

strong

.)
You're accusing me of doing something you're doing yourself.

Is it possible this is a good faith argument from you?...

If I compiled a list of towny tone posts there would probably be like three of them maximum, and probably not even any of the ones you quoted since I think he had townier tone more recently.

The fact that we have a similar read on a player doesn't mean that my reasons are exactly the same, or that I have to like your reasons.

And I feel like that should be incredibly obvious so I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.

I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.

You seem to have strayed from my argument. I'm not sure how to engage when you're talking about something different than the original point.

I'm having a hard time believing you believe this.

You seem to have strayed from my argument. I'm not sure how to engage when you're talking about something different than the original point.

Responding to this:

"If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine."

"My read is no different than yours."

This is not remotely true and I think you know this given what I've said about your read on him.
Idk what your argument or original point is supposed to be, but I don't believe you believe either of these things.

I could be wrong, but I don't like just about anything they've posted.

I don't believe you believe either of these things.

Well I do. As I am the one thinking, it is my belief we shall side with.

My point was, essentially;
You said "I don't believe you have this read".
The reason for that read was vibes/gut.
You developed a vibes/gut read on the slot identical to mine.
Yet you don't believe I had the read off of vibes/gut.

It's definitely possible I was wrong about the overlap in posts vibed as town.

The hypocrisy remains.

Your entire reason for suspecting me is based off belief I didn't believe my read.
My read, off the exact same thing you read that exact same slot, the exact same way.

I know I was genuine the same way you know you were genuine.

Oof, Ranger definitely wins this argument, maybe she's scum who's got a townie cornered but

[Aisa]

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

I need you to walk me through this post

My most likely town outside of myself is OE

I could be misreading the thread but I think that's a non-consensus opinion that's likely to not get very many votes.

If it did get 5 votes, it's probably not because 5 town are pushing it.

Like, I definitely could be wrong on Ranger, but even if I think Ranger is like 25% town, I'm 0% to vote them right now because that vote is never succeeding in getting five pure town votes given current reads.

Though I get what Vanders is saying: “this slot had 3 people townreading them including themselves, if it suddenly shoots up to 5 that’s maybe not such a good sign”
That’s maybe a townie perspective more than not.

Sure

[Aisa]

Asia, the Bella stuff I can at least understand your pov on it. I’m kinda half letting my townread on you guide my other reads cos I’ve found it quite hard to get my head into the game and found myself skimming a bit.

Vanders - what’s your take on Asia/Bella?

I find the drew vote on me a little suspect like dude I was thirsting for arko to be limmed most of yesterday are you trying to get inside my head lol

Self voting is logically the best play here but we’d get nowhere with it so we do need people who aren’t getting to heaven to not self vote. Problem is that puts the power into the scummiest peoples hands.

Could I propose something akin to a draft where we assume everyone has a self vote and therefore we need to secure 4 supporting votes for a person to go to heaven?

So like everyone would say who they would send to heaven other than themselves and we see if anyone hits 4 that way? Eg I would send Vanders or Asia.

And failing that like a tournament style where like we all propose one person to send and anyone who gets 0 votes gets removed and then we go again with anyone with 0-1 votes removed, then 0-2 etc until we have found the right person?

I just feel like the risk otherwise is people voting themselves and not being as willing to change…

Bella i see you asking me to engage you and that’s fine maybe you can start with telling me what you think of my plan above??

Not sure why you thought self-voting was gonna be such a problem

[Aisa]

Drewww
1. Why do you feel a bit better about me?
2. What do you think of Vanders?

Figured I was being a bit biased based off the last couple games where you were scum, and realistically your post seems a bit different, almost a bit harsher in a good way.

And you used some phrasing that I like to use, that isn't much but that helped my gut read.

I didn't like Vanders when I subbed in, but this is kinda the point for me when my reads start to evolve so I should give them another look.

Drewww
1. Why do you feel a bit better about me?
2. What do you think of Vanders?

Figured I was being a bit biased based off the last couple games where you were scum, and realistically your post seems a bit different, almost a bit harsher in a good way.

And you used some phrasing that I like to use, that isn't much but that helped my gut read.

I didn't like Vanders when I subbed in, but this is kinda the point for me when my reads start to evolve so I should give them another look.

How do I seem different? I promise I’m going somewhere with this, you can ask where if you answer

Well I touched on it, you seem less worried about pleasing here, as demonstrated but not liking Vander when others seem to to like them for town. ABloaf Aisa wouldn't do that imo(also make me feel good you aren't scum buddies in the worst case scenario, I know how you like to protect your buddy).

So when I look at you objectively, and not through the tainted glasses of how you were scum the last two times(and once led to my mislynch grrr), I feel pretty good for you as town.

And do what you need to do to sort me if you have to.

But, now I need to go back and do a once over on Vander, brb

Great! We've gotten to another sequence of posts that has been on my mind. So, I reacted positively when Dre said this because I felt it was a close-enough description of my meta. My own perception of it is slightly different, but obviously my perception and other players' perception are not going to be the same. Post 497 seems pretty fair in particular, though 483 "a bit harsher" kinda depends on the persective you take.

But anyway, the part of this post that I don't really understand is how Drew can "figure [he was] a bit biased". Maybe that's a thing others can do, but I at most am aware that a bias

might

be in play in my own reasoning. I can't "see" that I am biased for sure. I can't look at someone objectively.

[Aisa]

I do remember liking Vander, before I thought there was some theater with Aisa, but as I just said I think I was skewed by possibly unfairly scum reading Aisa.

My vote if not for myself would be OE, I think the only way that one is getting through given the state of the thread would be if it's incorrect.

I need you to walk me through this post

My most likely town outside of myself is OE

I could be misreading the thread but I think that's a non-consensus opinion that's likely to not get very many votes.

If it did get 5 votes, it's probably not because 5 town are pushing it.

Like, I definitely could be wrong on Ranger, but even if I think Ranger is like 25% town, I'm 0% to vote them right now because that vote is never succeeding in getting five pure town votes given current reads.

The only saving grace is that scum can't really out themselves to send a town to hell, because the heaven angels have the chance to rescue it the next day. That shouldn't be too hard if it was done obviously.

I'm much more worried about sending a sinner to heaven today, I think that will make the game much harder to win than ending up at 4-3.

And I did like this little sequence. I was not a fan of self votes, but they explained why they felt like a self vote was better than voting for a mom-consensus town read, and even applying that to their presumed top scum read.

So, yes I could vote for Vander for heaven

Pre Edit: Actually VOTE: Vander

That is E-1.....err, H-1?

I can't even.

[Aisa]

VOTE: Vander

Vanderscamp (3):

Vanderscamp, Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox.

Ranger (1):

Ranger.

Bellaphant (1):

Aisa.

Not Voting (2):

Bellaphant, BloodB0t.

To be blunt, I don't think all four votes on Vander are town.

That'd mean all of {Aisa, Bellaphant, Bloodb0t} would be scum.

As I don't believe those three to all be scum, the conclusion: there

must

be scum on Vander.

I think Aisa is town strongly, and while I'm not sure on my exact Bella read, Bella's above null to me.

I firmly believe {Vanderscamp, Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox, Doctor Drew} contains 2-3 scum (probably two, with Bloodb0t as the third).

If Vanderscamp is town (my current theory), it's because the scum believe Vander in heaven is +scum.

I

hate

the Doctor Drew vote there in particular.

You think Vander is town.....yet put them in a pool of possible scum?

Yeet

[Aisa]

Ooh shall I do a sentence-by-sentence review of Aureal's entrance in the game?
*Don't get your hopes up, I'm crazy but not that crazy

[Aisa]

Though I do have a few comments on individual lines-

Ranger might have a point about Oclax's phrasing-

Hey! No she doesn't D:

Aisa being a little weird about giving a townread but at least she acknowledged it probably looks a little weird?

...Thank you I guess? :3

Page 18:

Ranger hammers with an apparent misunderstanding of the plurality elimination rules? Weirder and weirder.

I went back to check and that's not what happened

Both Vander and Oclax are arguing for Ranger to get voted out D3 and it's hard to argue with that

Excuse me?

even though Drew seems a little scummier.

[Aisa]

Anyway, add Aureal to the list of people who are gonna make me metaphorically cry if they're scum.

[Aisa]

AV pointing out that it's dangerous to send a saint to heaven who SRs you is interesting. I hadn't considered that yet, though I've hardly had any time to think about the implications. Making that point is something that feels like it should mean something, but I'm not sure what. Is this something we really should be wary of?

I have these thoughts sometimes too, I think it's a real phenomenon, like, yes, it is literally possible to lose a game because the townie you put into heaven has wrong reads. Though maybe in practice it's not worth worrying about unless your username is Ranger.

[Aisa]

I wouldn't mind a Ranger elim today by the way, it does seem like one of the places scum could be if I'm wrong and I would not have to worry about forming a read on Ranger

[Aisa]

More scary Vanders timestamps on page 22, sigh, objectively the most terrifying slot of them all

[Aisa]

More scary Vanders timestamps on page 22, sigh, objectively the most terrifying slot of them all

objectively

Who's more objective now? Ha!

[Aisa]

VOTE: aisa h-1 I don't have a stronger read than this.

I said no.

"Lol no, Aisa is town, not hammering that"

Also what exactly stops Aisa from selfhammering now?

"Although wait, she's gonna self-hammer any time now"

VOTE: Aisa

FINE IF YOU INSIST ON MISTAKES.

"FINE I GUESS THE OUTCOME WILL BE THE SAME ANYWAY"

[Aisa]

COOL NOW I LOOK INCOMPETENT

HAHA I'M SO FLUFFY AND CUTE HOW COULD I POSSIBLY BE SCUM

[Aisa]

...I sure am degenerating, huh?

[Aisa]

Ok after this extremely productive session, I'm sure, exiling myself from this site for today, g'bye <3

[Aisa]

The temptation to diveinto this tunnel headfirst is something else. When I read through the game assuming it's exactly those 3 everything seems to fall into place. I think I see exactly what everyone's motivations are at any given time.

Either I'm right or this PT is gonna contain the funniest most delusional rambles ever known to mafiascum.net postgame, I guess it's a win-win!

[Aisa]

I think I see exactly what everyone's motivations are at any given time.

They wouldn't be very complex to be fair, it's mostly "miselim Ranger"

[Aisa]

Ok after this extremely productive session, I'm sure, exiling myself from this site for today, g'bye <3

Ok, seriously now <3

[Aisa]

Nice… town has mostly got this. I suppose I could swap in Ranger for Enchant in my solve.

[Aisa]

@ranger, I asked you a question you may have missed.

You may have missed this, but I've been reconsidering my Vander read from as early as the end of Hell 1. I'm still figuring my read out on Vander.

By the way, where does this come from? I don't see anything indicating you were reconsidering Vander before, you weren't shy about townreading him during the heaven phase:

{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, Bellaphant}
{AurorusVox}
{Bloodb0t}
{Doctor Drew}
{Oclaxian Empire}

Think I like this better.

That’s maybe a townie perspective more than not.

I agree Vander is town.

If Vanderscamp is town (my current theory), it's because the scum believe Vander in heaven is +scum.

Ranger, if I'm to believe you're town, what sort of scumteam am I supposed to believe is reasonable? Bella and AV feel town from their posting style, so that would leave me just Vander/Drew/Enchant. And nobody thinks Drew and Enchant are scum together because of the Arko/Oclax fight to start the game.

The mods of this game are not operating a secret tip line to Aureal where they tell her what to say to get on my good side, right?
...Right?

[Aisa]

But yeah the problem is that it's really hard to SR any of {Aureal, Vox, Bella}. And that doesn't leave much...

[Aisa]

Though Vanders is also hard to scumread in some ways, so that does raise the question of whether I'm only seeing the data I want too see, etc etc, anyway, I declare that today is a don't-worry-about-it day. That's one nice thing about martyrhood, they let you take lots of vacations days.

[Aisa]

Martyrdom?

[Aisa]

VOTE: Doctor Drew

At this point let's just hope Aira plays better because i have no hope for Drew either.

It's more likely than average.

I think Town>Mafia elims still should win game. While mafia have high grip at gamestate, mechanically we are at advantage.

I am not sure I'm interpreting the second post correctly but if it is "I have no hope that Drew will flip scum", welllll...

[Aisa]

I really liked the catch up for town but dislike 555 quite a lot.

BTW could you elaborate on this?

In long run it didn't matter it's all mafia ploy.

8 players
5 good
3 evil

And Aisa didn't vote for self.
So mafia helped.

Also, this makes one of(if not both) Aureal and Vander town confirmed.

*scratches head* How's that? Obviously I know I'm town, but from your POV what's stopping Vander and I from being scum and just the third one voting Aisa?

Honestly forgetting that we still have 3 scum left, and not just 2 lol.

And feeling confident about Ranger being scum from PoE, I jumped to conclusions.

Nggghhhh. I don’t like this, it sounds like it could be a townslip at first…

except

for you to quote and believe enchants post (“scum must have helped”) then you have to be working from the pov of there being 3 scum and 5 townies. If you think its 6:2 then it’s entirely possible for the five on the wagon plus asia to be town. The excuse of “oh I forgot it was 3 scum whoops” doesn’t match with the original post and to be looks like it’s fabricating a lack of knowledge.

Also don’t like the idea of confirming people as town based on “confidence” in a scumread - confirm people based on actual fact and truth. Unless you “know” for a fact that Ranger is scum because they’re your buddy!

VOTE: drew for now, but would also vote ranger.

(I don’t want to put them at e-1 yet cos if they’re gonna be openly scum I assume they’ll just self hammer (although - is that actually a bad thing in nightless??))

Not sure why I didn't pick this post up at the time, but seems super damning / I don't understand what Drew could possibly mean??

[Aisa]

Moment of truth

[Aisa]

Oh no
I live in the wrong timeline
Nonononono

[Aisa]

Thinking later, screaming only for now

[Aisa]

AAAAH

[Aisa]

<3

[Aisa]

Ok, originally my plan, if anyone outside of my three suspects got eliminated, was to spend a little time thinking about which of my three suspects to yeet, then Just Do It. I certainly wasn’t planning on using the whole 5 days. And I don’t know how long I’ll need now, but I’ll certainly need to take a bit more time to consider things. The wait will be torture for everyone else, but :shrug:

[Aisa]

I keep thinking "Why isn't anything happening in the game" "Oh..."

[Aisa]

Random thoughts
- 3 mafia out of 6? That's crazy, c'mon. Should be able to nab one.
- Maybe it's the lemon? I've been townreading him because 1. every now and then he comes up with a clever-looking reason to push someone such as the Arko E-2 case, 2. he started my wagon ;3, 3. he seems chill. But it hasn't always been this way, and some of his posts do actually give me scumpings - for example, the bits where he claims he's sheeping me.
- Bella seems a bit more decisive than usual? Does that mean she is scum?

[Aisa]

I... I can't quote posts from the thread anymore because it's locked?!

[Aisa]

If Vanders is town maybe he is right that my reads are wrong

[Aisa]

I'm tinfoiling absolutely everyone and everything

[Aisa]

viewtopic.php?p=13702656#p13702656

Vox: "Arghhh but then the thing that’s gnawing at me is I’m ALSO not sure why Ranger supported the vanders wagon, as town or scum that doesn’t make sense from Ranger if vanders is town. Unless it’s both of them are scum together and Ranger just got a bit eager and derailed his own partners wagon by offering support for it??"

She didn't _really_, though. Some of the posts where she's more positive about him are:

viewtopic.php?p=13699268#p13699268

Ranger: "I'll vote Vander if there's no other option. However, his wrong scumread is a threat. If the game comes down to a heaven vote and he advocates for my death there, we lose because I'm town."

viewtopic.php?p=13699435#p13699435

Ranger: "I firmly believe {Vanderscamp, Oclaxian Empire, AurorusVox, Doctor Drew} contains 2-3 scum (probably two, with Bloodb0t as the third).

If Vanderscamp is town (my current theory), it's because the scum believe Vander in heaven is +scum."

[Aisa]

Oh wow, just checked out a Bella towngame and a Bella scumgame and she doesn't have an activity tell. Woah. Huh. Glad I checked, I guess. I'm always impressed with people who can do that.

[Aisa]

Ahh thanks furtive it's ok

[Aisa]

I wonder if I'm gonna get a stronger scumread than the lemon, but seriously considering yeeting that slot

[Aisa]

Ok Aisa. For real this time, no making throwaway comments implying you're starting to scumread people, that turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy as we've seen!

[Aisa]

I'm gonna townbin Aureal again and continue from there tomorrow.

{Aureal}
{Everyone else}

[Aisa]

{Vanders, Bella, Ranger, Enchant, AurorusVox} three scum in there? crazy

[Aisa]

Vanders town?? hmmm??

[Aisa]

I'm tinfoiling absolutely everyone and everything

My thoughts are not magically any clearer today. I looked at a few ISOs and scrolled through the game a bit last night, and no-one was super obviously scummy. I'd scroll through a couple pages and think "hmm this player seems a bit suspicious" then skim something else and think "hmm actually maybe this player is town". It felt hard to get myself to completely believe in any read or interpretation of the gamestate.

In short... I'm confused and a little paralysed. But I'll try again tonight! At this point, to get past the paralysis I'm hoping to come up with a couple simple principles or observations that can help me make a choice that is slightly >rand. I don't think I'll get to a point where I have very confident reads for this game again, but that's ok.

[Aisa]

Maybe this plan ^ just ends up looking like
1. Townread Aureal + someone else
2. Yet someone nearly at random from the other 4.

I feel a bit better about townreading Aureal at the moment than just about any hypothesis I’ve tried entertaining at the moment - I’ve tried a lot of “maybe X is scum with Y and they are pushing townie Z” but none of these more complicated schemes feel like they actually have any chance of being right.

[Aisa]

It's figure-out-this-game hour once more! <3

My objectives are to:
1. not stress, escape today without worrying too much
2. maybe make a little progress

[Aisa]

Immediately wondering if R is scum and if I haven't been scumsiding all game

[Aisa]

I like how most players in this game have different initials, so I can go B or R or E or V. Or Aureal or AurorusVox.

[Aisa]

I just did a joint ISO of Vanders and Aureal to figure out which one is townier. Bad plan in hindsight: I was always going to read them and think they were both town. As of right now, I'm going to have to give Vanders a townread. But once I finish reading the last few posts in this ISO, I'm going to contrast Vanders with someone else.

[Aisa]

Also if he is town I have been

seriously

scumsiding all game so far hahaha

[Aisa]

I looove how every post from Vanders basically has a new idea in it. I hope this bodes well for his chances of being town. Though if Aureal and Vanders are both town, then this means entertaining some scumteams who are either... somewhat unlikely (e.g. can Ranger and OE be scum together? Ranger and Vox, as per Aureal's post?) or just haven't done that much all game (Enchant/OE + Bella + Vox??). I don't think these scumteams are completely impossible, but something to ponder.

[Aisa]

Yeah ok, Vanders is not only town but I've concluded he is townier than Aureal!
Oh, how the turn tables

[Aisa]

Ok, the good news is that solving this game is fun again instead of an existential-crisis inducing exercise!

[Aisa]

My best guess is still that Vanders and Aureal are TvTing
But ok, change of plans. I'm going to ISO Aureal + Ranger now and see what ideas I come away with. Wish me luck...

[Aisa]

Oh dear... reading Ranger's ISO, either someone's an extremely fearsome scum player in this game, or the scumteam is exactly Bella + Vox + Enchant.

[Aisa]

I maintain that she was so very townreadable on Day 1, and am still surprised no-one except Arko ever said so

[Aisa]

My best guess is still that Vanders and Aureal are TvTing
But ok, change of plans. I'm going to ISO Aureal + Ranger now and see what ideas I come away with. Wish me luck...

Done. Got me nowhere. Vanders, Ranger, and Aureal all seem pretty towny, though I'll make a note that Vanders's case on Ranger seemed pretty convincing when I was reading through Vanders's posting.

[Aisa]

Decided to ISO Bella + Vox and after the past hour+ of staring at these three extremely high post count posters this is a breath of fresh air

[Aisa]

There's a slot I really want to yeet, do I yeet them now or do I wait?

[Aisa]

Jk, of course the answer is that I'm going to sleep on it first. But if I don't chicken out, there might be a yeet coming tomorrow.

[Aisa]

Probably gonna make a decision later today.

[Aisa]

I’m scared

[Aisa]

I'm giving the game a final scan as a final decision moment.

viewtopic.php?p=13698353#p13698353

Sorry kinda misread that before.

But I don't care if you scum read Arko, I town read you.

This was pretty cute (:

[Aisa]

Well, I think my mind is made up. I'm not confident this will flip red, but I'm happy with the amount of thinking I've put into this. If we lose it won't be for lack of me trying. We could lose because I'm not thinking correctly, that's totally possible, but I'm out of easy, clear ways to improve my thinking, so... this is it.

[Aisa]

Ooof I have the message written up just gotta bring myself to commit to it

[Aisa]

@Mods:

I judge that

AurorusVox

is a sinner! Please condemn him to hell. Cheers.

[Aisa]

And now we wait

Spoiler:

AAAAAAHHH

[Aisa]

Spoiler:

[Aisa]

can't even blame someone else if this goes badly
in a normal game? you have all these excuses available to you
"I 'knew' player X was town, shouldn't have let Y get into my head"
"I told you is was a bad idea to trust that claim and you all did"

Here it's just me myself and I. Hehehehe

[Aisa]

I'm on the bus, I'll do everything in about half an hour.

Aha yes thanks please don't let me stress you out

[Aisa]

everything

ominous

[Aisa]

Spoiler: me examining furtive's message for clues

[Aisa]

Oh thank

goodness

, easily the most suspenseful moment of my MS career

[Aisa]

Yeah, are you sure I didn't AtE so much that you just changed the lemon's alignment for me?

[Aisa]

And I'm well aware I could be back in business shortly, haha. No friends for me this game either, we won't have another heaven phase.

[Aisa]

If Vox is scum I will cry*
*any crying is for illustrative purposes only and there is no welfare concern over here

But most importantly... noo the lemon was scum :'(
Tears being shed right now

[Aisa]

I would really appreciate it if someone pushed Enchant and Bella a bit, thanks

[Aisa]

Like surely there’s enough Aureal / Vanders / Ranger pushing each other in a circle now. It’s still interesting eg to note that Vanders is pushing Aureal and Ranger today, but if Vanders were to case Ranger that is not likely to be very novel

[Aisa]

I think that might actually mean Ranger is town then

I think naah - I don't know what alignment Ranger is, but the Vox-Ranger interaction is not that anti-associative, it looked like an achievable interaction for two mafia to have. There are not very many pairs that have less interaction with each other than Ranger-Vox. I guess Bella and OEnchant post have posted a bit less in general.

I might have at least been onto something with Vander and AV not really interacting though?

There are few slots Vanders seems to not have interacted with much. Can I name any Vanders/Bella interactions off the top of my head? Well, yes, but there isn't much. I think there are also some dead townies with whom there wasn't a ton of interaction (Drew? I guess there was a lot of indirect interaction via Ranger's read on that slot).

I think it's not so much that the Vanders-Vox relationship is special, and more that Vanders has focused on some slots more than others pretty much for the whole game. I suppose this can be a slight scumtell if you want. I think that if Vanders is scum he's been quite good at... pacing how posts and his pushes in a natural-looking way. Some choices or moments I could pick at, but also completely possibly towny. Grumble grumble judgment something ^^

So at five, vote out scum: we win?
Town, we go back to what we just had?

Then...aisa + whoever have to pick?

Seems that way

Uh, no! Sadly, I never get to have a friend.

Thinking that the team was Vanderscamp/Ranger/ArkoDrew was a LUDICROUS solve and it's really just not possible to believe that you actually thought this.

I wonder what you'd think of my Vanders/OEnchant/ArkoDrew solve, lol. I have held reads you people wouldn't believe...

For a while, the only votes on Ranger were Drew and me, two confirmed town from my POV.
Does scum never take the opportunity to hammer Ranger there?

I seem to recall someone gave an answer to this:

This isn't ELO, a quickhammer wouldn't end the game. If you're town, scum aren't all going to want to pile on just cuz since that will trigger judgment day for Aisa to make a last ditch effort to eliminate a mafiaoso. They ought to be worried about piling onto a bad wagon.

If you are mafia, Vander, then this doesn't apply;
If Aureal is mafia, then Aureal is explaining why scum didn't pile on.

Either way, the explanation for why I wasn't voted out by scum is there.

If you are scum, then the scum couldn't pile on.
If Aureal is scum, then the scum could've but deliberately avoided doing so.

Tomorrow (24h from now), I'll review AV interactions/stances and others' view of AV.

Pretty funny that Vanders is getting that Aureal post quoted at him, I'm like relatively sure there's an older Vanders post where he clearly states that scum cannot just quickhammer, lol.

Ranger slightly misinterpreting Vanders or giving him the slightly wrong (imo) degree of benefit of the doubt here does seem +scum, but trying to not get too hung up on small individual scummy things like these

[Aisa]

Ranger's first half of #676 and last part of #677 are pretty good explanations of why Aureal's stuff made no sense.

He was giving a lot of credence to the Arco/Ox interaction as never being scum/scum, but not the Ranger/me interaction, when that interaction should have been far more obvious, and additionally I was the main person (correctly) advocating that Arco/Ox wasn't scum/scum, and he was putting me as the third member of that scum team.

I also think there have been instances of this from other players, e.g. see earlier in this PT when I thought Drew was scum for something similar. And I think I might have noticed a similar problem with a post from someone else, can't remember who at this point.

[Aisa]

It is pretty fascinating to contemplate what Vox moving the heaven vote onto me must have meant, now that we know his alignment for sure.

[Aisa]

EV for town here is 70%. Didn’t realise it was quite so high.

[Aisa]

I'm not scumreading Vanders at the moment, so the wagon on him is pretty alarming

[Aisa]

Enchant just unvoted? My dear, where am I supposed to fit two scum in this playerlist?

[Aisa]

but then aisa caught a scum anyway (GJ, but I wish we could talk!)

Me: not going to fall for what could be a blatant pocketing attempt. I'm not going to let this comment influence my read.

Me, walking around 5 minutes later: ooh... Bella sounded so towny in that post...

[Aisa]

Bella's perspective is the closest to mine right now, not sure what this means though.

And yeah, those last few posts by Vanders are very towny.

[Aisa]

I have no idea what’s going on but I’m enjoying just reading along seeing the turns and twists.

[Aisa]

Except I think Vanders is town.

[Aisa]

Page 18:

Ranger hammers with an apparent misunderstanding of the plurality elimination rules? Weirder and weirder.

Both Vander and Oclax are arguing for Ranger to get voted out D3 and it's hard to argue with that, even though Drew seems a little scummier. Ranger is looking very much like a linchpin here with Drew, Aisa, Vander, Oclax, all having significant interactions. Drew/Ranger/Aisa team maybe? Will have to look into it more in-depth later, but a few more pages to go!

Page 20 (*yawns* almost there...):

Vander and Aisa are looking like the most likely heaven candidates. This matches my TRs. So I should feel good about that. It also makes me feel nervous. Is one of them pulling the wool over our eyes? (Please not both, ow.) [...]

There is a 3 hour interval between these posts. I've definitely talked myself in and out of townreads in less time, so this is not necessarily indicative, but... interesting change of reads.

[Aisa]

Alright, I went through Vander's ISO and tried to note every interaction to get a better picture of how he feels. Next up, Aisa (but not until a more reasonable hour).

Arko/Drew:

"mild town" in 24; not scum with OE in 89; likes the Oc/Arko read even more in 146; not obvious what's super towny in 195; null, vaguely towny in tone in 270; doesn't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone like Ranger thinks in 292; more likely town if Ranger is scum in 547

Blood/Aureal:

agrees with Blood that they don't agree with OE's case in 90; quite towny and agrees with everything in 272; has sounded fairly towny in 548

Oclaxian/Enchant:

disagrees with case in 90; questions OE's reading an implication in 91; top scumread in 93; disagrees that meta is unreliable in 106; not feeling an Oc vote in 107; likes the Oc/Arko read even more in 146; "Stop" to Oc's self-vote; posts this page have been very towny in 199; towniest player so far in 240; response to Ranger's case was very towny in 262; willing to vote Oc for heaven but thinks it wouldn't get through unless incorrect in 453; most likely town but non-consensus opinion in 456; townier than Aisa in 548

Aisa:

disagrees that page 3 sounded like playful ribbing in 92; replies to Aisa's reply that she skimmed in 123; answers questions on Oc/Arko interactions in 145; asks why TR is terrifying in 194; asks if Aisa thoroughly read Ranger's Arko read; response on Arko sounds more real in 278; response to questions was fine in 297; agrees with Bella towncase in 543; had been mostly null until Bella towncase in 544; not comfortable with sending Aisa to heaven in 548; feels worse from association with Ranger vote in 549

Ranger:

asks why Arko is by far the towniest in 195; doesn't believe Ranger has TRs on all those Arko posts in 196; elaborates that if those reads were true Ranger would open with them not an associative in 199; more disagreement that Arko read is too strong to be real in 202-206; acknowledges error about associative read and continues to disagree because Arko read and asks about Arko's E-2 backpedal in 258; case on OE is okay but not sold in 262; sardonic question in 263; Ranger is assuming Arko is town and working backwards in 278; response to Ranger's accusation of hypocrisy in 292; scum justifying a read on someone in 293; concerned that Ranger hammered Kowah in 345; more disagreement on hypocrisy/Arko read in 433; should be snap limmed D3; still arguing that Ranger's argument/read isn't true in 444; legacy is to kill Ranger in 445; doesn't like just about anything she's posted in 446; questioning Ranger's wagon analysis in 545; asks why Aisa thinks he hasn't been trying to convince people Ranger is scum in 546; probably just open wolfing with vote in 549; keeps posting things he doesn't like and asks for reasons why Ranger is not evil in 554

Bella:

notes that Aisa's response to questions was fine in 297; more towny than not in 300; agrees with Aisa's towncase of Bella in 543; had been mostly null but Aisa's towncase post is quite strong in 544; townier than Aisa in 548

Kawaii/Kowah:

question reeks of fake hunting in 318; doesn't think it was a relevant thing to discuss in 345; Kowah hammer seems fine in 432

AV:

also interested in answers to AV's questions in 197; has sounded fairly towny in 548


TL;DR:

Arko/Drew:

mild town read pretty consistent throughout even as he argues about Ranger's stronger TR

Blood/Aureal:

no interaction, townread stays consistent

Oclaxian/Enchant:

disagreement initially causes drop to top scumread but lets a feeling stop him from voting then indicates growing townread

Aisa:

questions Aisa with expectation of scumread but response is fine so she remains null until towncasing Bella but still has concerns about association with Ranger

Ranger:

constant barrage of trying to tear down Ranger over the strong TR of Arko and then arguing over several more things

Bella:

no interaction, towny null until Aisa's towncase which strengthens read

Kawaii/Kowah:

little interaction but disagreement/suspicion in what little chance there was to have any

AV:

no real interaction, no read at all until talking about who is towny in comparison to Aisa in 548


I think it's pretty solid overall. Reads make sense, some change as circumstances change, no real about faces other than letting gut feeling stop him from pursuing Oclax. A few players get basically ignored but it seems fairly natural given the state of the thread, though it does feel a little weird that AV is one of them and the most ignored since it feels like he was more active than the others?

A few thoughts from some browsing of AV's ISO.

Pretty sure AV is NOT scum with Ranger because of 239 and is probably just town (the opening about Aisa reads pretty towny, are scum going to talk about how they want to read someone, doesn't seem so likely). I just can't see any reason why scum would make an argument directed to their scumbuddy only to have the scumbuddy misintepret it, forcing the original questioner to have to clarify and ask again. Ranger does not look as good for the misinterpretation, though. The original question in 181 and called out to Ranger again in 209 seems pretty clear and yet Ranger somehow digs up 45 and uses it in her response which clearly is not what AV is talking about- he literally quotes the 'freaking out' in 181; and if Ranger only saw 209's question it says Arko putting Oc at e-2 was "earlier in the thread" than the freaking out and 45 clearly is not earlier than the vote in 54.

It's also seeming less likely from this that Oc/Enchant is scum with Arko/Drew, as Oc was the one who triggered Arko's e-2 shenanigans. I could see this sequence as Arko starting to break down under early pressure, then coming back the next day to see feedback in the scum PT that his OMGUS stuff was bad and he unvotes.

I'm thinking Bella is town, though I haven't dug deeper on her yet. Vander/Ranger/Arko makes sense as a team to me. Arko gets pressured early but also seems to have decent support so Ranger defends in over-the-top fashion, trying to get Vander towncred for a heaven vote by bussing Ranger and then hopefully people think Ranger was white-knighting townArko so he has a heaven shot later? The heaven voting is maybe a little weird if so but I think makes enough sense... Drew puts Vander at h-1 and Ranger doesn't hammer, but that could be because obviously Ranger shouldn't want Vander there and maybe Ranger's slot is salvageable once we see Vander was scum, but not if Ranger hammers. It seemed reasonable to wait and figure Bella or I would be amenable to voting Vander. But AV switches to Aisa, Drew votes Aisa to see if that'll get AV back, Ranger obviously can't do anything but vote Aisa, then Bella brings out her Aisa read and Enchant loves hammers.

I'm moving towards voting Ranger but we've got time and she's got stuff to deal with. And I'll keep doing more poking around.

Aureal used wall post! It was super effective!

[Aisa]

I messed up my spoiler tag, lol. Anyway, am wondering if Aureal could be mafia, and I'm quite torn. There are

so many words

in her ISO. But some of the words I can see coming from scum, they seem... kinda carefully measured. Again... the good thing is that I get to not worry about it yet. I'll let the townies try and sort it out ^^

[Aisa]

In case I haven't made it clear... strong scum performance from whoever is still in the game.

[Aisa]

Maybe Bella can tentatively be town. I promise it’s not because she praised me for getting AV!

Vote me and we win when Aisa sends Aureal.
Vote Aureal and we win on the spot. You risk nothing, If i am mafia and Aureal is town, Aisa just sends me next instantly and town still win.
If we both town THEN we lose. Well Aureal is not town though.


So yeah vote and wrap game out already, i am bored.

^ feels more like town enchant than any other post@ aureal

This is the exact same thought I had

Looking at just page 30, I do lean towards the most likely two combos of the four being,
{Vanderscamp, Enchant}
or
{Aureal, Bellaphant}

Enchant vs Aureal makes it unlikely both are scum given one scum elimination wins the town the game. It's

possible

(gambiting on neither being eliminated), but unlikely.

Since {Vanderscamp, Aureal} is never a team (same as above only much stronger), by PoE, the only team with Aureal would be Bellaphant, and 738 supports this as possible.

Inversely, while Enchant did vote Vanderscamp, the unvote and discussion on page 30 fit as a scumbuddy laying the groundwork to leave anti-buddy interactions which don't endanger either party.

Enchant/Areal are seriously pushing each other.
Vanderscamp/Areal are seriously pushing each other.

Enchant/Vanderscamp appear to be doing the opposite.

However, again; just page 30. I need a deep dive of the other 30 pages to get a better read.

I have a couple of issues with this post: trying to position yourself as the 'loudest' when we basically have the same amount of posts feels disengous and narrativey in the way that some of aureal post do. Also, it just lacks nuance generally: a lot of the 1v1s in the game have felt really picky, like 'technically' or whatever the arko thing was, or whether it's valid to have an early read, or now whether it's valid for aureal to brainstorm a thought process or not. As well as being off putting from the thread, they've all also seemed fairly confusing, which makes me wonder if it's theatre? The only 'genuine' thing seemed to be ox self voting, which is an emotion repsinse but doesn't mean town. Like, normally I can read an argument and work out where the two people are missing each other, but especially this aureal/vander one in kinda failing? I think that bussing in this game is more utility than normal, too.

Bella, what do you think Enchant's motivation here is?

You're the one most familiar with Enchant, your input would be appreciated here!

Part of me feels enchant is unreadable here on purpose. I've said to them twice I'm usually ok at reading them and been ignored/not engaged with, so they obviously don't want to talk about it? They also seem to scum read me/you/vander?? It doesn't feel very progress minded.

Enchant wants to win, generally. It's where the town!enchant mech spech comes from. It's also weirdly hard to vote then out, because people aren't confident reading them: they got vigged by their own traitor in our last game! I'm not seeing that here.

Wait, Vox lied about Ranger supporting Vander in the heaven vote and nobody pointed it out until now??? WTF

Watch, Aisa is going to be the only one who noticed it and that's why she zapped him.

Ugh. I read through avs iso last night trying to find interactions but he felt fairly distant from everyone? I asked him a few questions because I didn't feel engaged with but a lot of his early game was circular/insular

This also feels towny

[Aisa]

Also I like “Enchant wants to win” as a way to read him, I’m gonna try that next time he’s in a game with me. It’s a very simple concept but somehow my favourite framing so far.

[Aisa]

If I’m right about Bella and Vanders that leaves {Ranger, Enchant, Aureal} as a PoE. Which seems possible.

[Aisa]

The fact scum have to take a specific line today should help, so I should think about it a bit.

Scum have to survive two eliminations. There are several ways I can think of that you could try to set this up:
- try to split the playerlist into a 2v2 / 3v2, but have the two scum on opposite sides, bussing each other. Get a mislim on one side, hope I yeet a townie on the other side.
- let the townies eat each other (viable eg if you are Bella!scum)
- try to set up someone as an “obvious” elimination, then find a reason to pivot to a different townie, hope I yet the “obvious” elimination.

In practice idk if anyone is doing any of this stuff. We’ll see

if my Vanders and Bella reads are accurate that’s the game mostly solved anyway, the danger mostly lies in me being incorrect on them

[Aisa]

If Bella is scum here she is:
- maybe giving Enchant and Aureal a little push
- but also optimising quite hard for looking towny

Something like Bella + Enchant in particular seems quite unlikely, Ench is in quite a fraught position and what she’s doing would be quite counterproductive

[Aisa]

If Bella is scum with Vanders what she’s doing is fine, though the question becomes “why use many words when few words do trick?”
If she’s scum with Ranger or Aureal I feel like I may understand what’s going on a bit better. If she’s scum with Ranger in particular they probably feel that Ranger is at slightly higher risk and need to shift suspicion onto others. Though the townies are doing most of their job for them, in this case.

[Aisa]

If Enchant is scum what he’s doing can only be understood as a WIFOM play. If he’s scum with Aureal I feel like he’s strongly increased the likelihood of one of them being eliminated, whether in this phase or by me. But it’s also not ideal for him to go 1v1ing a townie so strongly? I guess in general he’s calling a bunch of attention to himself. Maybe he thinks he can push Aureal so townily that he will look town after the flip? And hey, I did just say his recent posting has been townier, if so he’s succeeding at least a little.

[Aisa]

Purely going off today, Aureal’s play looks relatively scummy so one key point when considering the slot is whether her earlier play is towny enough to earn her a TR

[Aisa]

Though rereading the last few pages I remain worried that Vanders + Aureal may be TvTing. It kinda feels similar to the time I got into a TvT in ELO. I SRed them, which made them SR me, which made me… etc etc.

[Aisa]

That time I got into the TvT, the other slot’s *positioning* felt like the main proof they were scum. I sort of stopped caring as much about the actual quality of their arguments.

That’s what makes me think this fight could also be TvT: I actually think both slots’ reasons to suspect the other are… pretty reasonable, and they are emphasising aspects of the other’s play in a way that feel compatible with having a little confbias.

[Aisa]

Is enchant right? If we think aisa can get it right, it almost doesn't matter?

Don't you dare give me work now

[Aisa]

This is presumably the rough time we'd start seeing Aureal's partner balk if she's scum, so will be interesting to see if that happens

[Aisa]

I am still interested in this game, just not to the point of having anything new to say about it. Not much is happening in the thread. I will step it up if my help is required again, but kinda just want to see who gets elimmed and take it from there.

[Aisa]

Ranger unvoting seems possibly significant. It would help if she shared a bit more of what was in her head: I can't really tell her alignment just from her popping into the thread and saying she is questioning a read. But she has fair reasons not to, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Aisa]

If i was wrong on Aureal, mafia would already "agree" with my reasoning and vote Aureal out or claim that i am gambitting and vote me.


Aureal is mafia. Like 99.9999999999%.

TBf noone else wants to talk about your plan so I am getting worried that I'm being thick here. But we have two days and noone wants to talk to me about consensus either.

I save your time: I will not vote anyone else. Therefore you can't elim anyone without my help or mafia help (protip mafia will not vote each other)

I don't think this is totally sound? We've been talking all day about how scum can't just quickhammer.

[Aisa]

I may pretend I'm enlightened, but in my heart of hearts, there is a new scumteam I am ready to tunnel.

[Aisa]

Having done an Aureal+BloodB0t iso, their iso is distressingly light on the topic of AurorusVox.

Everyone's ISO is distressingly light on the topic of lemons ^^

[Aisa]

No i mean it doesh't even matter you can lay shit on me like hell, and even if you success, you still lose because Aisa sends you.

So yeah.

Saying this like it's a fact doesh't make it more likely to happen~
I would take the idea seriously if there was a consensus this is what I should do, but there isn't at the moment

[Aisa]

Seems like there’s the most consensus on Aureal, with maybe a chance of Ranger if Ranger is town

[Aisa]

This is presumably the rough time we'd start seeing Aureal's partner balk if she's scum, so will be interesting to see if that happens

Has this happened? Well, Vanders has pivoted a bit onto Ranger, though he generally doesn't make much sense with scum!Aureal. Ranger cased {Vanders, Enchant} (oh how relatable). Ranger + Aureal looks very possible, though it's not quite my top teamsolve

[Aisa]

Just been on a long coach journey so I reread the first half of the game
This is nothing new but I’m very very lost

[Aisa]

Just been on a long coach journey so I reread the first half of the game
This is nothing new but I’m very very lost

I keep opening the game thinking that maybe this time I will solve it. Then I read two pages and my brain just goes “nope. not dealing with how impossibly towny everyone is until they give me a flip.”

But I also still want to solve the game so I keep coming back instead of ignoring this site for the next 24 hours.

[Aisa]

Wow, a last minute wagon on Vanders of all people. He is still my strongest townread so this wagon is pretty terrifying. I think I’d have a better shot of figuring out this game if there were a different flip.

[Aisa]

Hoping Ench and Bella can come in and vote Aureal, cause I doubt those two votes on Vanders are moving, now.

[Aisa]

Subject line: yeet or be yeeted

Ench,

Your options are:

• Yeet "99.9999% scum" Aureal
  
• Be yeeted by me

Make sure to let me know your choice before deadline by posting in the thread! If you don't choose, "be yeeted by me" will be chosen automatically for you.

Cordially,
Aisa

[Aisa]

Oh wow

[Aisa]

Subject line: yeet or be yeeted

Ench,

Your options are:

• Yeet "99.9999% scum" Aureal
  
• Be yeeted by me

Make sure to let me know your choice before deadline by posting in the thread! If you don't choose, "be yeeted by me" will be chosen automatically for you.

Cordially,
Aisa

Also this it not my final action submission obviously I am now going to agonise over this for at least the next 24 hours

[Aisa]

*cracks knuckles*
Ok, it's time to get serious about this. Initial thoughts:

- Right now I am leaning slightly towards yeeting Ranger. I think that her stuff today isn't great. Some of it comes across as nitpicky or overly confident in unlikely scenarios (thinking of the "overwhelmingly likely scum had a strategic realisation" post). Also think the way Vox treated the slot could be indicative of a partner. However, I doubt myself when I read Ranger's Hell 1 posting.
- I think I maybe townread Bella very slightly because no-one gave me the time of day when I proposed sending her to Heaven. I also still think there are towntells sprinkled throughout her ISO, but they don't seem significantly harder to fake than e.g. Ranger or Aureal's posting.
- I don't know if I'll have a lot of new things to say. It feels like I'm still wrestling with some of the same questions I had a week ago (because the pool of slots I'm choosing from is the same), and we've reread this game a

number

of times now. I think what I need to do is sit down and look at how scummy

[Aisa]

This exchange is interesting:

Enchant: VOTE Vanders
Vanders: uuuhh, why? I'm town.
Enchant: Can't wait to lose to some absurd team of Ranger-Bella then.
Enchant: I thinked about possibility that both you and Aureal is town actually therefore my choice was shit anyway
Vanders: why didn't you vote Ranger with me?
Enchant: I thought ranger town
Enchant: That's actually part of reason why i voted you, not Aureal
Vanders: What did you think the team was when you hammered me, enchant?
Enchant: You-Bella

[Aisa]

I can't work out if that exchange makes Enchant townier or not

You're going to want to justify this one regardless of your alignment imo

Thanks for getting information out of Enchant, by the way!

[Aisa]

viewtopic.php?p=13721274#p13721274

Is anyone actually having doubts evaluating these kinds of posts from Ranger?

Because I feel like it's really, really obvious

[Aisa]

viewtopic.php?t=90617&start=500
The page that just makes Aureal really hard to SR

[Aisa]

- Right now I am leaning slightly towards yeeting Ranger. I think that her stuff today isn't great. Some of it comes across as nitpicky or overly confident in unlikely scenarios (thinking of the "overwhelmingly likely scum had a strategic realisation" post). Also think the way Vox treated the slot could be indicative of a partner. However, I doubt myself when I read Ranger's Hell 1 posting.

Actually even her Hell 1 posting is a bit nitpicky (thinking of the push on Ox because of "technically"). Some early nitpicking can be excused: gotta start from somewhere. pressure is good. something something need to warm up.

But when I think of Ranger's contributions this game I think of
1. pushing Ox for "technically"
2. pushing Vanders

Also apparently there are posts such as this one:
viewtopic.php?p=13703599#p13703599

If I were scum it'd be a fact I'd have two scumbuddies.

Every player stating I am scum must therefore also be held accountable for solving to find said alleged scumbuddies. Failure to do so shows lack of critical thought. As town, that's severe bias; as scum, that's a tell.

So my challenge is to separate the town suspicious of me from the scum:

Town players suspecting me should be able to reason their way into finding a plausible scumteam.

Scum players will need to risk blowing their Ranger mislim by tying me to other players which remove their credibility.

This doesn't seem like a particularly reasonable burden of proof to place on anyone

[Aisa]

pushing Ox for "technically"

Oh sorry, this was not what happened. But it was still a push on Ox based on a fine point about wording that I didn't agree with

[Aisa]

I was looking for a different GIF but these also do the job:

Spoiler:

[Aisa]

I think I agree Bella and Aureal are not a team

[Aisa]

Still considering yeeting Ranger. I don't think either Bella + Enchant or Bella + Aureal look very likely, so I'm most worried about being wrong because it's Aureal + Enchant

[Aisa]

Not really relevant but if it is Aureal + Ranger + Vox that definitely explains why I'm in heaven, def townread at least 2 of them when I was voted in