Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

[Aisa]

You know I definitely got my eye on you as well Aisa

Things definitely just got a bit spicier hehe

I think blood is quite towny, I agree with all of what they're saying.

Agreed, although still not loving you and Aisa for town, so there is that.....speaking of

I need rest too, last points before I go:
- Ranger is town, Ranger wagon not good, if I wake up tomorrow and see that you people have decided to hammer Ranger before I can post again I am certainly not going to be advocating for sending any of you to heaven in the next phase xx
- Not going to fan the flames on Oclaxian Empire's wagon when I haven't digested the whole case, but at a first glance I like that vote a lot more than Ranger or Arko.
- Welcome to the game Kowahbunga!
- Happy scumday, AurorusVox!
- Am I just going to sheep Ranger into oblivion this game? Keep reading to find out!

Maybe it is just bias, but feeling the same scummy vibes from you Aisa. And the part about hoping Ranger isn't hammered before you can post screams of Titus from ChatGPT.

I might be unfair, but you are lucky I am not vig this game

More or less done with my catchup.....kinda skimmed a bit but wanted to at least get the general gist of the happenings here.

Eeeee maybe try not pre-flipping Ranger?
Lucky for

you

I actually need to sort you this game

[BloodB0t]

Bella's math derpiness seems genuine and towny to me, but I don't think Kowahbunga is +scum for SRing it. I didn't like 311 and 312 though.

I'm also feeling wary of Aisa but not sure if it's from the afterglow of chatgpt. Her vote on me certainly doesn't help. @Aisa can you say a little bit more about why you're SRing me?

[Oclaxian Empire]

I don't like Aisu for pairing with Ranger, but idk if that's townie or not. Will be able to post more later.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Drew repped in? Oh god. I can't read Drew and I'm ready to policy Drew at any time for that tbh.

[Aisa]

I didn't know I missed having Drew in my game until he replaced into the game.

Tl;dr:

it feels like Kowahbunga is drip-feeding us their opinions and I think that's a bit +scum.
Sometimes (not always) I change my mind on a scumread when I talk to them, so you can consider talking to me, K.

Wall in the spoiler, I recommend at least clicking on the button but I don't mind people skimming it
V V V V

Spoiler:

Request: please find any post any other player feels strongly about, and explain why you don't feel strongly about it. (E.g. mastina cares about a lot of posts by Arko or OE. Vanders cares about mastina's towncase on Arko.)

I'm going to politely decline doing this. I want to be in the game as it currently is, and will be responding to posts that are happening now.

I woah-ed out loud when I first read this, mad respect if you're scum . Also if you're town, actually. You're free to decline, though let me explain why I thought your posts were scummy:

My read through was not as productive as I thought it would be

Why?

I only found one post out of the 12 pages that I felt strongly about. I was hoping for more.

What are your thoughts on Ranger?

I disagree with their read on Oclaxian.

Their read list they post on each post has me curious. What's your take on that?

This is unusual an perspective imo. I think it's normal to have some posts you don't feel much towards, or to struggle a little to get integrated into a game if you're replacing in. But for me, posts in a game usually fall on a spectrum in terms of how much I care about them. I never have exactly one post I feel strongly about.

From your post on Ranger, it's clear you've read the game at least a little bit. You may not have strong opinions, but this post implies you at least have little thoughts. We're having to prompt these out of you little by little, and I think that's +scum. I'm considering that from your post count and join date you're probably newer to the site (welcome). I think newer people are sometimes a little less swept up in all the site jargon and site meta, and that's to the benefit of my read on you, but I would guess that being a little reserved is +scum even for a newer player.

To your credit, you do imply in that post that you have a read on Oclaxian, and when asked about the one post that you felt strongly about, you quoted an Oclaxian post. I don't weigh this one-off consistency very highly though, I don't think.

I think the setup is townsided because it has a history of 5 town wins and 1 mafia win.

For instance, I look at this POV about it and the opinion that it's town sided and think this is much more likely a town POV that Bellaphant's POV about it. Because the more I think about it, Bella's issue with the game makes no sense from town pov. It seems like they're worried about the setup, but yet call it townsided. Wouldn't having the opinion of it being townsided also be a cause for confidence... If you are town?

At this point I really feel like Bella manufactured their townsided opinion. That and not being familiar with the setup, while also being able to act worried about the set up they apparently don't know enough about to know the player split of.

VOTE: Bella

To add to Bella's response - when you actually go and trace back Bella's thoughts, there's no inconsistency:

Spoiler:

I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal?

"In my head about the setup" = Bella is undecided about the setup's balance
"It seems townsided but with less info" = mixed thoughts, consistent with being undecided

Spoiler:

Fair, think I'm just in my head a bit about the set up, as it seems fairly town sided but with slightly less info to go on than normal? I don't think I've played nightless before.

Why do you think it feels town sided?

No night kills for a start, plus 2/7 feels good odds, better than the newbie queue, which is the only other place I play small games. Plus, I really like the idea of scum and town hunting being separate skills and being played out as separate

3/7, but we can get it wrong twice.

This bit 'When the number of Sinners and Saints among the Unjudged (alive) players is equal, a Judgement Day occurs, in which all Martyrs decide on a player to send to hell. If that player is a Saint, the Sinners win. If that player is a Sinner, the game moves to a hell phase.' feels scum sided but we'd have to fuck up a fair bit to get there.

After you ask her why it feels town sided, she even goes out of her way to explain the other side of the coin - what makes it possibly scum sided.
Ironically I disagree that that bit is scum sided. The Judgment Day is a townsiding mechanic, because if it weren't there then scum would have an ~automatic win when they reach parity.

You seem to be attributing this emotion of "worry" to Bella but that's not the impression I get when I read her posts - she sounds more like she is trying to get her head around the setup.

[Aisa]

In my head I wanna TR {Vanders, Ranger, Drew, Bella} + {myself}. Is that too much? That leaves {Oclaxian Empire, BloodB0t, Kowahbunga, AurorusVox} in the PoE. Yeah that's too far for this stage of the game, I'm gonna be looking for a townread to demote.

Sorry lemon, I know I said I TRed you earlier, there's some mixed stuff in your posting and I don't feel ready to TR you at the moment.

[BloodB0t]

I TRed Drew at the start of ChatGPT in the midst of people throwing shade at him, and kept that TR for the whole game (while dead), I was surprised he was limmed the last day.

I like Aisa's spoilered wall but that kind of scares me because I liked a lot of what her hydra was saying in ChatGPT.

The reason why I like Aisa's wall and not Ranger's walls is because I find Aisa's easier to read, with a natural (towny?) flow to it, but Ranger's walls seem to have a high potential of being filled with intentional red herrings by virtue of being overly complicated.

@Aisa can you say a little bit more about why you're SRing me?

[Aisa]

Or maybe it's just my disarming charisma, that happens too

I mean it’s disarming for sure lol you make me want to read you as town

If we were playing make-Aisa-blush you'd be firmly in first place though ^^

But it was more the deflecting of the question that tingled my citric juices. I suppose it depends if you answer it when you get to Serious Posting^TM

While I've got eyeballs on this post, by the way, I never intended to deflect. I didn't just make up that reaction for laughs, it was played up a bit but meant to showcase the genuine underlying feeling I felt which made me say that I was a bit scared to townread Vanders.
Put another way, I could have had that reaction to townreading any player - I never meant to imply there was a specific feature of Vanders's play that made him especially scary to read.

[Aisa]

Yes yes Bloodb0t, let me get to you now

[Aisa]

Right yes the short version is just that I TR ranger and I want the wagon off her. I did go a bit eeny-meeny-miny-moe, could have voted someone else on a different day, depending on who made a scummy looking posting more recently.

282 Makes sense but I think you're exagerating that it's

insanely

townie, you even admit that it can be faked "if they think to".

I thought this post was very scummy, it felt like you really wanted to get the last word in in that discussion and nitpicking a small detail in what I remember was a longer post. There was no follow up to it. You didn't keep pushing Ranger or mention that you changed your mind or anything. So idk it kinda felt like you were possibly half-giving up on having a scumread on Ranger.

I'll say you do sound similar to ChatGPT as I remember, I haven't gone back to look. I pushed you there because I thought there were aspects of your play that genuinely would look scummy if I pointed them out, so it could be there's just a bit of the same going on this game and you're actually town.

[Aisa]

<48 hours to go, what to do?
I probably gotta case someone a bit more strongly but I don't wannaaa

[BloodB0t]

That's right, I'm still the same limbaity badtown on a streak of dodging red role PMs.

[Aisa]

Rereading Ranger's posts I feel like the best reasons to SR Ranger are
1. The push on OE, which is largely splitting hairs about some wording OE used
2. Maybe Ranger is TMIing the read on Arko/Drew
3. Maybe the timing of Ranger's reconsideration does look a bit appeasy

Yet if you look past them there's a lot of stuff that looks towny. One example is this post:

My read on Ranger is contingent on what Arko is at the moment, I think.

Bad approach tbh. My reads are fluid. Write a case on what makes Arko scum and I'll listen. You can convince me. I simply haven't been, because Arko's content is by far the towniest in the game imo.

"you and arko can't be scum, but even if you flip town, i don't think arko is scum still bc arko's the towniest slot in the game"

This is a very interesting way of wording it.
It's simultaneously stating I'm town (163; "has determined", "won't reevaluate"; those aren't phrases used to describe a scum player, those are phrases describing a town player), while also taking the least-flattering reading of my 149.

I believe Arko-OE have interactions strongly indicating they're not scum-scum. Scum-town's possible. Town-scum's possible. Town-town's possible. Never scum-scum.
Separately, Arko is my strongest townread rn.
Separately, Oclaxian Empire's content has overall been suspect, enough to be a main scum candidate.
Arko isn't town because of OE being scum. The three points had no connection. Stating they did connect is somewhat disingenuous.

You can agree or disagree about the read on Arko and OE, but there is plenty to townread in the approach of this post.
1. "You can convince me". This is not a scum!Aisa thought. Ranger is not me, but there probably still is some correlation.
2. Look at the separation into three separate points - read on Arko, read on OE, and interaction. This seems quite principled

and more likely to come from town

<- changed my mind, maybe not

Maybe there's an actually interesting question: are the reasons to scumread Ranger stronger or weaker than the reasons to townread Ranger? I probably haven't quite figured out this one yet, my heart is still saying Ranger town but I'd be lying if I said I was 100% sure.

[Doctor Drew]

Did like rangers response about reading posts, did kinda like Drew's catch up but his scum reads are my biggest town reads.

I am more than willing to admit my read could be wrong on Aisa, just that nothing jumps out at me as different than her scum game.....but I have only seen her scum game as of late.

I know Oxac says they can't read me, but I have more experience with them probably more than anyone here, and they have modded many a game where I have been all of the alignments. So I definitely don't believe their dramatics of 'oh know Drew is unreadable, let's just policy elim'.

Which btw, unless it is a very dry joke.....wtf?

[Bellaphant]

Can someone link the chat game?

[Doctor Drew]

viewtopic.php?t=90462

For reference, I was town vig, Blood was town, Aisa was in a hydra but was scum.

[Doctor Drew]

viewtopic.php?t=90462

For reference, I was town vig, Blood was town, Aisa was in a hydra but was scum.

Dei Ex Machina was her hydra.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Drew the last game I played with you I thought you were scum the whole game as a mason, and got talked out of scumreading you multiple times.

I literally cannot read you.

[Oclaxian Empire]

Actually the last time we really played together was 2019. That was four years ago. I barely remember shit from 2019.

Like sure, we've played a lot together in the past and I've modded a lot of games with you in it, but I really do not know how to read you. Watching you play a game I'm modding is different from playing with you and reading you.

[Ranger]

Pretty null. Vaguely towny in tone

Hypocrite.

Why?
I don't think he's made a dozen posts that are towny in tone, if that's what you're referring to.

Still. You agree with my take (

vaguely

,

towny

, in

tone

) in strength and reason.
Yet attack me for having that same read.

If you compiled a list of towny-tone posts from him it'd be nearly identical to mine.

The way you're talking about Arko is not coming from a perspective of assuming he's town by default.
You're pointing out multiple posts of Arko's that you think are actively towny, that I and others doubt are alignment indicative enough for you to be able to get the reads that you're claiming.

I repeat: hypocrite.

My read is no different than yours.

I formed it from reading the thread and coming to a conclusion.

Nothing more.

I've explained my stance and how I came to those conclusions.
I explained why it was not strong. (Explicitly, it's a mixture of vibes, gut, tone, and lean. Not the basis of a strong read.

Strongest

townread, but not

strong

.)
You're accusing me of doing something you're doing yourself.

[Oclaxian Empire]

There's more reasons why I don't think I can read you Drew, but I'm gonna not bring them up, because they're a little external influency, and stuff I genuinely don't wanna go into. I don't think I can read you, and that's about it.

[Doctor Drew]

Drew the last game I played with you I thought you were scum the whole game as a mason, and got talked out of scumreading you multiple times.

I literally cannot read you.

Lol, that must be a long time ago.....I can't remember the last time I was a mason.

Pre Edit: Ok fair enough.

But why the policy elim talk? A joke I assume??

Pre Edit2: Ranger gets some town points here, I felt like I was reading my frustration when being called out for genuine reads.

Pre Edit3: K Oxcla......fair enough on external stuff

[Oclaxian Empire]

Ok, the last game was Mini 2100 where I was a mason with BEF, and you were a mentor. I thought you were scum the whole game and BEF was trying to convince me that you could be town. I don't remember that game very well, and that's bc of out of game stuff.

The policy elim on you was a half-joke. Not a good joke, but also has some merit behind it. I don't think you should survive to ELO with me, if I get to there. But I also don't think I should survive to ELO anyways.

[Ranger]

Convince me the posts were +town that happened to be made by scum? That, that's quite possible. I'm considering it right now. (Well, will be as soon as I log off. I don't think I have the brain capacity to reassess without distancing myself. So I need a night of rest to relax and recharge my brain before I tackle it tomorrow.)

By the way, I did this for Arko. (Still need to for Oclaxian Empire.)

I maintain their early posts were +town.

I've no explanation for the discrepancy AurorusVox pointed out in their takes. That's +scum.

When I did the thinking, I came to the conclusion town can make +scum actions I've no town explanation for, so the case isn't slam-dunk. It should be considered, but isn't a smoking gun in of itself.

As

part

of that consideration: Arko's more recent posting I feel quite negative about; they feel like +scum. 227 left a bad taste in my mouth.
233 looks like scum happy a town player (me) is defending them and going to take the fall for them (I'm a larger wagon than Arko).
237 is good, but is sheeping my takes, after I defended them.
315 felt +scum to me.

All in all, Arko's earlygame content was +town, and late content +scum, and while town can make inconsistent actions with no town explanation, it's still a warning to be respected. So my read on Arko has shifted.

{Aisa}
{Vanderscamp, AurorusVox}
{Bellaphant}
{Kowahbunga}
{BloodB0t, Arko}
{Oclaxian Empire}

Arko remains not scum with Oclaxian Empire in my opinion, but one of them is certainly scum imo.

Vanderscamp and AurorosVox both +town from this shift.

I should note; this reevaluation was for

Arko

. I realize Arko's been replaced by Doctor Drew. I've not read any of Doctor Drew's posts yet, so I've not formed a read on him yet. He may yet bounce the slot back to town. About to tackle that.